The Dynasty that never was.

[BlakFrankWhite]

http://media.fyre.co/bzaMjZ6gR66lwKRwxd4J_153310897_opt.jpg

[beastee]

Yeah man. I had such high hopes for this franchise. It's a bummer for the league and small markets.

Interesting to see if Westbrook stays and becomes THE MAN longterm.

[Cold soul]

The team that never won which is sad with that much talent. I expect them to be on ESPN 30 for 30 down the road.

[JBSptfn]

They are today's equivalent to the 90's Magic.

[AngelEyes]

They are today's equivalent to the 90's Magic.

Pretty much, except OKC's run was a little longer. Apt comparison though.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

But, bro....we got jeremy lamb, kevin martin and steven adams

[HoopSuperstar]

the next x will be coming soon.

[imdaman99]

It's really unfortunate. The only time they didn't have key injuries in the playoffs was 2012 and 2016. 2011 they were babies and new onto the scene of contention, 2013 was the Westbrook takeout by Beverly, 2014 had Ibaka miss 2 games of the Spurs series, 2015 had everyone injured. I really wished better for Westbrook, my favorite player in the NBA.

[HoopSuperstar]

They are today's equivalent to the 90's Magic.
although the Magic were a good team the lakers weren't a contender yet.
So S. Oneal didn't really pulled a K.D. Move.

[DMAVS41]

But, bro....we got jeremy lamb, kevin martin and steven adams

I've seen you post this a number of times, but I don't really think you understand much here.

I've always argued that trade on basketball terms because it is a fun and thoughtful discussion...

However, the Thunder could not have kept that group together. The owners weren't paying the luxury tax and the repeater tax...and either Ibaka or Harden had to go. This wasn't Presti just waking up and deciding to move Harden...it was a decision that was forced upon him by the changing climate after the CBA's new luxury and repeater tax rules went into place after the lockout that terrified owners.

Not to mention...what year were they winning it with Harden that is a lock?

How about just putting it on the players a bit. You know...having a good enough team around Durant to be in the damn conference finals seemingly every year. Just to watch the players either not get it done or get hurt.

Presti and the owners no doubt made mistakes, but its not like KD just didn't have enough. He wet the bed in the biggest game of his career and then went running to an all time loaded roster. It's a bitch made move and weak...and maybe you don't want to trust that guy to be your franchise player.

Even if they kept Harden and they had perfect health...not 1 year would have been a lock. You think you are beating some of those Warriors, Spurs, and Heat teams with Durant going 10-31 in do or die games? Even with Harden its not happening...and that defense without Adams is gonna be pretty awful as well.

[Spurs m8]

On the plus side - Harden is still ringless and KD burns in hell
Russ loses that beta b*tch

[knickballer]

It's gutting because you can make a case that OKC could be the most talented team in the league. It's a bit different from Lebron leaving for Miami as Cleveland had nowhere near the talent than OKC has currently. OKC has an elite PG, one of the up & coming bigs in Adams, solid core players in Oladip, Waiters, Kanter, role players in Robinson and Illyasova and what looks to be a promising player in Sabonis.

GOATbrook/Waiters
Oladipo/Robinson/Waiters
Durant/Robinson
Ilyasova/Kanter
Adams/Sabonis

That's a very good roster.. Guys like Ilaysova gives them a stretch 3, Oladio gives them another weapon. Sabonis another big. I don't like how posters on this forum use the word "beta" too often but this was truly a beta & bitch move by Durant.

BTW, If you're a small team just draft international players as these guys won't **** you over and are loyal. Just look at the Gasol brothers staying with Memphis forever(Pau had to be forced out)

[DMAVS41]

It's gutting because you can make a case that OKC could be the most talented team in the league. It's a bit different from Lebron leaving for Miami as Cleveland had nowhere near the talent than OKC has currently. OKC has an elite PG, one of the up & coming bigs in Adams, solid core players in Oladip, Waiters, Kanter, role players in Robinson and Illyasova and what looks to be a promising player in Sabonis.

GOATbrook/Waiters
Oladipo/Robinson/Waiters
Durant/Robinson
Ilyasova/Kanter
Adams/Sabonis

That's a very good roster.. Guys like Ilaysova gives them a stretch 3, Oladio gives them another weapon. Sabonis another big. I don't like how posters on this forum use the word "beta" too often but this was truly a beta & bitch move by Durant.

BTW, If you're a small team just draft international players as these guys won't **** you over and are loyal. Just look at the Gasol brothers staying with Memphis forever(Pau had to be forced out)

Yep...also, Horford was ready to join up if KD committed long term. That is why this BS about KD not having enough help during his time there is a joke.

So a team of Russ, Dipo, Durant, Horford, and Adams...that isn't enough to keep you long term? Okay...then you aren't a loyal championship first option franchise player.

He left at worst the 3rd best roster in the league with another superstar...arguably the best roster ...to join another team. You don't want a guy like that as your franchise player.

Dirk and Duncan really are a dying breed...

[CelticBaller]

This is sad

[Kiddlovesnets]

When you trade Harden to save money, you get what you deserve. Dont want to spend money, then be prepared to lose your superstars.

[sportjames23]

Seattle gets its revenge. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

When you trade Harden to save money, you get what you deserve. Dont want to spend money, then be prepared to lose your superstars.

As long as you are talking about the owners...this is fair.

I'd also add that if this wasn't good enough of a roster for KD...he isn't a franchise championship first option player anyway.

But I don't think KD left just because of basketball. I think the elephant in the room is simply that a much better city had a great team to join. OKC vs GSW in terms of which city young/rich athletes want to live? LOL

[stoks]

I've seen you post this a number of times, but I don't really think you understand much here.

I've always argued that trade on basketball terms because it is a fun and thoughtful discussion...

However, the Thunder could not have kept that group together. The owners weren't paying the luxury tax and the repeater tax...and either Ibaka or Harden had to go. This wasn't Presti just waking up and deciding to move Harden...it was a decision that was forced upon him by the changing climate after the CBA's new luxury and repeater tax rules went into place after the lockout that terrified owners.

Not to mention...what year were they winning it with Harden that is a lock?

How about just putting it on the players a bit. You know...having a good enough team around Durant to be in the damn conference finals seemingly every year. Just to watch the players either not get it done or get hurt.

Presti and the owners no doubt made mistakes, but its not like KD just didn't have enough. He wet the bed in the biggest game of his career and then went running to an all time loaded roster. It's a bitch made move and weak...and maybe you don't want to trust that guy to be your franchise player.

Even if they kept Harden and they had perfect health...not 1 year would have been a lock. You think you are beating some of those Warriors, Spurs, and Heat teams with Durant going 10-31 in do or die games? Even with Harden its not happening...and that defense without Adams is gonna be pretty awful as well.

Let me just say...you are one of my favorite posters. It's a shame your intellect is wasted on some of the dumb ass*s on these boards though.

Seriously...good job. :applause:

[FashionIssues]

too young and inexperienced at a time phil and pop were still thriving outcoaching them.

[knickballer]

As long as you are talking about the owners...this is fair.

I'd also add that if this wasn't good enough of a roster for KD...he isn't a franchise championship first option player anyway.

But I don't think KD left just because of basketball. I think the elephant in the room is simply that a much better city had a great team to join. OKC vs GSW in terms of which city young/rich athletes want to live? LOL

I think that gets overblown when it comes to athletes. First, these guys only live in their cities for like 1/4 of the year as 1/2 is around the off season and another 1/4 they're traveling.

I think KD just couldn't handle the pressure. They've been a contender since 2010 or so it seems and ever year they fall short. Look at this past playoffs when Westbrook was carrying that team in the GS series but they still choked a 3-1 lead. He's afraid he's never gonna win a championship.

[DMAVS41]

I think that gets overblown when it comes to athletes. First, these guys only live in their cities for like 1/4 of the year as 1/2 is around the off season and another 1/4 they're traveling.

I think KD just couldn't handle the pressure. They've been a contender since 2010 or so it seems and ever year they fall short. Look at this past playoffs when Westbrook was carrying that team in the GS series but they still choked a 3-1 lead. He's afraid he's never gonna win a championship.

Very rarely do you see players flocking to small markets or less desirable cities when the basketball situations and money are equal.

I'm not saying it is the biggest factor, but just one of many.

Also completely agree that he's just not cut out to be a championship first option player at this point in his career. Perhaps he will learn that playing on GSW and lead a team of his own some day.

And I like KD...I really do. Amazing talent and seems like a great person, but SAS has this right...it was weak. Plain and simple. He had every right and he made his own decision, but for a guy bitching about being 2nd...he just up and left being the man to be Harrison Barnes replacement. Kind of hard to take him seriously.

[DMAVS41]

Let me just say...you are one of my favorite posters. It's a shame your intellect is wasted on some of the dumb ass*s on these boards though.

Seriously...good job. :applause:

Thank you. In all honesty thank you.

I'm actually thinking of getting off for a while. Finding myself getting a little too frustrated with some of the clowns here that can't take a good old fashioned argument that gets heated.

Or they just don't know enough about a complex situation and just want to scream about "Harden!!!!!"

[Thunderfan86]

This shit is so fvcking frustrating bro, I just can't get this shit out my fvcking head. :banghead:

[longtime lurker]

Yeah man. I had such high hopes for this franchise. It's a bummer for the league and small markets.

Interesting to see if Westbrook stays and becomes THE MAN longterm.

This has nothing to do with small markets and everything to do with the owner being a cheapskate.

[KirbyPls]

Seattle gets its revenge. :oldlol:

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. :applause:

Glad OKC never won, and I hope they never do. If this had been Seattle, it would have sucked, but it's not, so it is glorious.

[KingPush]

Westbrook about to have a prime D-Wade type season

[KirbyPls]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner. :applause:

Glad OKC never won, and I hope they never do. If this had been Seattle, it would have sucked, but it's not, so it is glorious.

Apologies to OKC fans though, on this board or otherwise, since the fans were great. I can never forgive taking the Sonics, but the OKC fans shouldn't suffer.

[MintBerryCrunch]

I feel bad for Westbrook. He is always welcome to join the Cavs.

[Old Man River]

However, the Thunder could not have kept that group together. The owners weren't paying the luxury tax and the repeater tax...and either Ibaka or Harden had to go.
but why. had to know cap was going up, talking about back then, so you only pay luxury tax for a year. Why can't OKC pay luxury tax if Cleveland can. Also small market. Revenue sharing means you can afford it. Now they lost it all.

[DMAVS41]

but why. had to know cap was going up, talking about back then, so you only pay luxury tax for a year. Why can't OKC pay luxury tax if Cleveland can. Also small market. Revenue sharing means you can afford it. Now they lost it all.

no...they didn't know at that time about the direction of the cap...and they were scared of the repeater tax.

what do you mean...why can't OKC pay the tax? they could have...their owners decided not to.

my point is that you can't be mad at Presti...the owners were not willing to pay the tax. if money was just no problem at all...you just keep harden and amnesty Perkins....and pay whatever tax you want. that wasn't the situation in OKC though.

i rarely argue the trade like this because its not interesting. the owners were not going to pay the luxury tax or repeater tax...so Harden or Ibaka had to go.

Simple as that.

And then from a basketball standpoint...they could basically add nothing else. And, imo, that just isn't good enough to warrant the kind of penalty they would have had to pay to go into the tax multiple years in a row.

trading harden was their best bet to avoid that while also finding a way t stay competitive and potentially improve the talent levels at positions of need...which, it objectively did, the Thunder were better in 13...and Adams developed into a very good player. It was honestly some bad luck with injuries and Durant not being a true championship first option that led to the downfall of the Thunder.

[ArbitraryWater]

It's really unfortunate. The only time they didn't have key injuries in the playoffs was 2012 and 2016. 2011 they were babies and new onto the scene of contention, 2013 was the Westbrook takeout by Beverly, 2014 had Ibaka miss 2 games of the Spurs series, 2015 had everyone injured. I really wished better for Westbrook, my favorite player in the NBA.

not sure if missin 2 Ibaka games on the road in SAS really deserves a mention

[Spurs5Rings2014]

trading harden was their best bet to avoid that while also finding a way t stay competitive and potentially improve the talent levels at positions of need...which, it objectively did, the Thunder were better in 13...

You keep repeating this ad nauseam, but it's just not provable. Yes, they may have had a better record in the regular season, but that doesn't mean they would have panned out in the play offs. Harden may have disappeared in the finals, but he showed up HUGE in the WCF and was the main reason we were backdoor swept by them. Guy literally equaled/trumped Westbrook's output, now THAT is a big 3. Unless they get to the finals again that season and win more than 1 game, they weren't a better team in 2013 - and there's zero proof that they could of done that.

:confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

You keep repeating this ad nauseam, but it's just not provable. Yes, they may have had a better record in the regular season, but that doesn't mean they would have panned out in the play offs. Harden may have disappeared in the finals, but he showed up HUGE in the WCF and was the main reason we were backdoor swept by them. Guy literally equaled/trumped Westbrook's output, now THAT is a big 3. Unless they get to the finals again that season and win more than 1 game, they weren't a better team in 2013 - and there's zero proof that they could of done that.

:confusedshrug:

Generally when a team improves on both sides of the ball like the Thunder did while improving the big weakness (defense)...I think it is fair. I personally thought they were better as well. I liked how Durant/Russ/Ibaka could play to their optimal levels and excel in a way they couldn't having to share time/ball with Harden. I liked how the team seemed to have a bit more energy on...especially on defense.

However, I agree it is not provable. And gladly agree we don't know for sure.

That cuts both ways though...the "dynasty" and "guaranteed titles" talk isn't provable.

I won't go as far as you do to say there is zero proof, but your assessment is fine.

As long as you carry that over to the uncertainty of keeping Harden combined with how Harden looked in the finals as well.

Totally agree he was great in the WCF...but that was a toss up series...just like it would have been in 13. I took the game of Ibaka/Perkins lives to not be down 3-1 at the time. You obviously remember this as a Spurs fan.

That is my point...there was no dynasty. There was no guaranteed championship. This was a team that might have won a title in the last 4 years. Just like they were without him. Had to go through the Spurs and Warriors...then the Heat and Cavs. They just never had enough given the competition to be a dynasty.

So I totally agree as long as you let it cut both ways.

[Stringer Bell]

I wonder how Harden's career/style would have been if he had stayed with OKC, and as a result, how would the Thunder have fared.

Harden's scoring skyrocketed once he went to Houston. Some of it was due to improvement, some of it due to the team's needs. His defense suffered, as he expended more energy on offense, and I think he just lost a lot of interest on D.

In Houston he put up big scoring numbers. In OKC, he wouldn't be able to show all his offensive tools as they already had Durant & Westbrook. You don't need 3 guys doing a bunch of ISOs. He might not be as lazy as a defender as he often is. I just wonder how much improvements as a player he could make and consistently use if he had stayed in OKC.

[dazzer87]

One trip to the finals and this was a Dynasty.............:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: