KD and Curry seriously limited their legacy ceilings

[Doctor K]

Curry will be most remembered now for 2015 and 2016 pre super-team. And honestly...he didn't live upto the hype. Of course when you already have a stacked starcast and add a Top 20 player ever, anybody can do anything lol.

KD similarily, he will be remembered for all he did pre-super-team too...which was great and all but nothing more than I can say Karl Malone or Robinson didn't accomplish, probably less. Of course when you join a 73 win team anyone can do anything lol.



I think whats done for their legacies is done. They won't go higher. Now its just about the rings.

[IGOTGAME]

Curry will be most remembered now for 2015 and 2016 pre super-team. And honestly...he didn't live upto the hype. Of course when you already have a stacked starcast and add a Top 20 player ever, anybody can do anything lol.

KD similarily, he will be remembered for all he did pre-super-team too...which was great and all but nothing more than I can say Karl Malone or Robinson didn't accomplish, probably less. Of course when you join a 73 win team anyone can do anything lol.



I think whats done for their legacies is done. They won't go higher. Now its just about the rings.

pre-superteam? last year was def a superteam

[Ben Simmons]

Yall gotta stop with this nonsense. It depends how they play

[Magic 32]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JskyovzAyiA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy4TD4QWJfw

[Doctor K]

Yall gotta stop with this nonsense. It depends how they play

what can either of them prove at this point? what can they do at this pont that would lift them higher?

[Nash]

none of them had top 10 potential anyway

[Doctor K]

none of them had top 10 potential anyway

Well now both of them I dont think can be in the top 15 discussion or top 20 no matter what they accomplish. This is equivalent to Karl Malone just joining the 96 Bulls after he couldn't beat them. It doesn't matter if he wins with them, anyone could have lol.

[bdreason]

Playing on stacked rosters really devastated the legacies of Russell, Kareem, Magic, and Bird. :rolleyes:

Like it or not, in 20 years, all people will do is count the rings. Curry and Durant will be celebrated like the Stars they were. Guys like Klay and DrayGod will be remembered in the same light as Scott, Worthy, DJ, and Parish.

[Doctor K]

Playing on stacked rosters really devastated the legacies of Russell, Kareem, Magic, and Bird. :rolleyes:

Like it or not, in 20 years, all people will do is count the rings. Curry and Durant will be celebrated like the Stars they were. Guys like Klay and DrayGod will be remembered in the same light as Scott, Worthy, DJ, and Parish.

Um no...its not playing on stacked teams or even joining stacked teams. People even now look at what Kobe did with and without Shaq. Or Magic with and without Kareem, and Kareem without Magic, etc. What makes Kobe, Magic, and Kareem special, is what they accomplished without their superstar (if they had a period of time they were still in his prime without that superstar).


Curry & KD definately had a long period of time without a superstar, and those days will definately be looked and valued higher.

[IGOTGAME]

Playing on stacked rosters really devastated the legacies of Russell, Kareem, Magic, and Bird. :rolleyes:

Like it or not, in 20 years, all people will do is count the rings. Curry and Durant will be celebrated like the Stars they were. Guys like Klay and DrayGod will be remembered in the same light as Scott, Worthy, DJ, and Parish.

all of that effects their legacy and the way they have been analyzed.

this is just like saying if the all NBA teams got together on one squad it wouldnt effect how their legacies were remembered.

[bdreason]

Kevin Durant had an MVP and 4x Scoring Titles before joining up with Curry.

Curry had 2 MVP's, a Scoring Title, and a Championship before joining up with Durant.


Outside of Kareem, none of those top 10 GOAT's had a Title before winning Titles together, on stacked rosters. And nobody talks about they did when they weren't winning titles.

[DirkNowitzki41]

I'd say Durant really ****ed up his legacy. His Warrior rings wont amount to anything. He had top 10 potential easily. Now theres 0% chance of that. This is 10000x worse than Lebrons decision.

Curry on the other hand was never that great. He isnt in the level of LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, MJ, etc. He's more of the 3rd tier of all-time greats. After the D-Wades and Dirks.

[Sarcastic]

It only hurts their legacy's if they don't win. If they fail together it will be very very damaging.

[HoopSuperstar]

Warriors win the title next year. It wouldn't be a big surprise its like hurray we won. Nothing like Rocky 2 Adrian I did it, They're not the underdogs they're the favorites to win it all by a mile. They were the favorites this year and they'll be the favorites next year unless some playoff team makes a big trade.

[Doctor K]

Kevin Durant had an MVP and 4x Scoring Titles before joining up with Curry.

Curry had 2 MVP's, a Scoring Title, and a Championship before joining up with Durant.


Outside of Kareem, none of those top 10 GOAT's had a Title before winning Titles together, on stacked rosters. And nobody talks about they did when they weren't winning titles.

Why does before matter? Kobe and Magic accomplished a lot without a superstar teammate afterwards left as well.

KD's resume is no better than the likes or Robinson, Malone, Barkley, etc. That's where his legacy will peak. Everyone will forever remember Warriors won 73 in 2016. No one denying Robinson or Malone or Barkley joining Chicago Bulls would not have lead to more rings. All I'm saying KD's legacy will mostly be based on what he did before joining a 73 win team.

And Curry? Yeah he won a title, and that's great, I'd say his legacy is around Wade at this point. Wade had similar success and level of career before joining forces with LeBron. And tbh, that's kind of where he is looked at still, those 2 extra titles with LeBron didn't help that greatly. I don't expect it to chagne much for Curry either. He actually had a lot of potentail before this.

[Sarcastic]

I'd say Durant really ****ed up his legacy. His Warrior rings wont amount to anything. He had top 10 potential easily. Now theres 0% chance of that. This is 10000x worse than Lebrons decision.

Curry on the other hand was never that great. He isnt in the level of LeBron, Kobe, Shaq, MJ, etc. He's more of the 3rd tier of all-time greats. After the D-Wades and Dirks.


Who was Durant passing on the top 10 list? His impact isn't nearly as strong as anyone on it.

[sd3035]

Their team is still less stacked than the Cavs

[Doctor K]

Who was Durant passing on the top 10 list? His impact isn't nearly as strong as anyone on it.

No one saying Top 10. But top 15-20. But even the likes of Dirk Nowitzki? A title could have propelled him past. Now he will never past Dirk. Nowitzki's MVP + Finals MVP Title in Dallas >>>> KD's MVP + titles after joining 73 win Warriors forever.

[IGOTGAME]

Kevin Durant had an MVP and 4x Scoring Titles before joining up with Curry.

Curry had 2 MVP's, a Scoring Title, and a Championship before joining up with Durant.


Outside of Kareem, none of those top 10 GOAT's had a Title before winning Titles together, on stacked rosters. And nobody talks about they did when they weren't winning titles.

what does this even mean? please explain

[Magic 32]

Durant will be in the Mount Rushmore conversation by the end of this decade. Just accept it.

And the hate will be nothing compared to the reaction to "not 1, not 2, not 3....." party and the 2011 finals meltdown.

By the way.....Lebron fans thought they could get away with 2 colluding moves and not have some kind of major blowback?

This is karma on a intergalactic level. Too bad Durant was one year too late.

[Sarcastic]

Their team is still less stacked than the Cavs


:lol

Only because Lebron is still better than anyone on the Warriors.

[Sarcastic]

Durant will be in the Mount Rushmore conversation by the end of this decade. Just accept it.

And the hate will be nothing compared to the reaction to "not 1, not 2, not 3....." party and the 2011 finals meltdown.

By the way.....Lebron fans thought they could get away with 2 colluding moves and not have some kind of major blowback?

This is karma on a intergalactic level. Too bad Durant was one year too late.


He needs multiple MVPs and FMVPs to enter that conversation, and by going to GS, he's pretty much taken himself out of the MVP race. I mean Curry is ahead of him at this point.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Yeah the rings likely won't be individual legacy boosters. It'll be more like the 04 pistons on steroids . Curry's legacy will be that he couldn't win a ring without 3 other all stars next to him (or opponents supporting cast injured) and Durant's will be that he had to jump to the team that beat him to win a championship.

[bdreason]

If Barkley or Malone won 3-5 Titles in their prime, regardless of who it was with, they would be in the top 10 discussion. As time passes, people forget the specifics. That's how legacies work.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I've been watching the NBA since the 80's, and all the shit people talked about Magic, Bird, and Kareem was forgotten over time.

[tpols]

If Barkley or Malone won 3-5 Titles in their prime, regardless of who it was with, they would be in the top 10 discussion. As time passes, people forget the specifics. That's how legacies work.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I've been watching the NBA since the 80's, and all the shit people talked about Magic, Bird, and Kareem was forgotten over time.

yup .. look how it worked for bron. The key is what KD averages/how much impact he has.. if he's 27/8/4 for a few titles those are going to count high impact titles just like whats won by anyone else. The thing is he might have to scale into the low 20s ppg, so it all depends how it shakes out on the court.

[Sarcastic]

If Barkley or Malone won 3-5 Titles in their prime, regardless of who it was with, they would be in the top 10 discussion. As time passes, people forget the specifics. That's how legacies work.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but I've been watching the NBA since the 80's, and all the shit people talked about Magic, Bird, and Kareem was forgotten over time.

How you got there is definitely brought up. Look at Drexler in 95. He played great in the playoffs, yet is given very little credit because he had to ride Hakeem's coattails.

[Ai2death]

Why does before matter? Kobe and Magic accomplished a lot without a superstar teammate afterwards left as well.

KD's resume is no better than the likes or Robinson, Malone, Barkley, etc. That's where his legacy will peak. Everyone will forever remember Warriors won 73 in 2016. No one denying Robinson or Malone or Barkley joining Chicago Bulls would not have lead to more rings. All I'm saying KD's legacy will mostly be based on what he did before joining a 73 win team.

And Curry? Yeah he won a title, and that's great, I'd say his legacy is around Wade at this point. Wade had similar success and level of career before joining forces with LeBron. And tbh, that's kind of where he is looked at still, those 2 extra titles with LeBron didn't help that greatly. I don't expect it to chagne much for Curry either. He actually had a lot of potentail before this.

I'd say Curry is under Wade, Wade showed up in the finals in his solo year with Shaq

[Nash]

if you're not in the top 10, you have no legacy.
can't be bothered with the legacy of somebody who has 10 guys with better careers ahead of him.

[Sarcastic]

If Durant's numbers dip into the low 20s, that will be definitely held against him. The numbers you put up when you win are just as important as if you win.

Context isn't thrown out the window.

[oarabbus]

Playing on stacked rosters really devastated the legacies of Russell, Kareem, Magic, and Bird. :rolleyes:

Like it or not, in 20 years, all people will do is count the rings. Curry and Durant will be celebrated like the Stars they were. Guys like Klay and DrayGod will be remembered in the same light as Scott, Worthy, DJ, and Parish.


Don't forget about MJ. People like to pretend Rodman and Pippen had only minor contributions to that team.

[j3lademaster]

none of them had top 10 potential anywayCurry most definitely did. He put up perhaps the most impressive offensive regular season of all time, he just choked super hard all playoffs post portland series.

[tpols]

If Durant's numbers dip into the low 20s, that will be definitely held against him. The numbers you put up when you win are just as important as if you win.

Context isn't thrown out the window.

of course .. i dont think anybody would disagree with that. But I dont think it's gonna happen. Durant is the best inside the arc creator of offense by far and will get the most looks imo

[j3lademaster]

Don't forget about MJ. People like to pretend Rodman and Pippen had only minor contributions to that team.Rodman and Pippen aren't spear-heading a 73 win, championship favorite by a huge margin team either. I'm glad we're comparing apples to apples.

[bdreason]

How you got there is definitely brought up. Look at Drexler in 95. He played great in the playoffs, yet is given very little credit because he had to ride Hakeem's coattails.


You're assuming KD isn't going to be the #1 option. My guess is that Klay Thompson is the guy who is going to be relegated to a distant 3rd option.

Durant is the best player on the team, and Curry starts with the ball. If both those guys perform at an MVP level, and win multiple titles, their legacies will be just fine.

If KD comes in an plays like a role player, then of course it will effect his legacy. Like I said, I don't really see that happening though. If it does, then Durant may be on his way out after 1 season anyways.

[SchrOEder]

durant should have joined the hawks.....i lost my respect. even if they win the title, it wont count as a fully deserved one.

3 titles with that team = 1 real title

[IGOTGAME]

can we at least agree that if he doesn't win a ring or just wins 1 that it will not really be thought of a positive under these circumstances?

[Sarcastic]

You're assuming KD isn't going to be the #1 option. My guess is that Klay Thompson is the guy who is going to be relegated to a distant 3rd option.

Durant is the best player on the team, and Curry starts with the ball. If both those guys perform at an MVP level, and win multiple titles, their legacies will be just fine.

If KD comes in an plays like a role player, then of course it will effect his legacy. Like I said, I don't really see that happening though. If it does, then Durant may be on his way out after 1 season anyways.


Klay thinks of himself as a superstar. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians problem forthcoming.

[Magic 32]

He needs multiple MVPs and FMVPs to enter that conversation, and by going to GS, he's pretty much taken himself out of the MVP race. I mean Curry is ahead of him at this point.

I think he will win 1 or 2 MVP's (I don't think Curry will age gracefully)

3 FMVP's and 3 rings.

So that's pretty much Lebron's hardware plus 4 scoring titles.

[IGOTGAME]

Klay thinks of himself as a superstar. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians problem forthcoming.

Klay is one of the greatest shooters of all time. If he is open he will and should shoot. Teams are just going to have to pick and choose how they guard this guys. Its almost impossible off of screens. Steph/Klay/Durant off of double pin downs is going to be crazy

[Sarcastic]

I think he will win 1 or 2 MVP's (I don't think Curry will age gracefully)

3 FMVP's and 3 rings.

So that's pretty much Lebron's hardware plus 4 scoring titles.

He's not getting MVPs on this team. His numbers will dip too much.

Only way they don't is if Curry drastically changes his game and becomes a 10+ assist pg. I just don't see him doing that.

[Lebron23]

Kobe is smiling right now. The 12th spot is officially locked.

[SchrOEder]

curry lost his alpha status on the team.

not even sure if he iis approving this deal.... especially after this year and last years finals/playoffs

[DMAVS41]

Nah...they enhanced it.

Ultimately nobody is going to care about this stuff.

People said the same stuff about Lebron....6 years later...most of the basketball world is putting Lebron in the top 5 all time.

If they play great and win...they get huge legacy boosts.

Whole different discussion about the flaws inherent in how a lot of people rank players, but this helps, not hurts...their legacies if they win together.

[MP.Trey]

Curry probably didn't have much of a choice. The FO didn't trust him as a number one for good reason. They needed Durant to make LeBron work harder and make switching harder for the Cavs.

[j3lademaster]

curry lost his alpha status on the team.

not even sure if he iis approving this deal.... especially after this year and last years finals/playoffsdude just had a 30 ppg season on 34min/game. this is curry's team just like miami was wade's. it's up to durant to take this team over a la lebron.

[IGOTGAME]

Nah...they enhanced it.

Ultimately nobody is going to care about this stuff.

People said the same stuff about Lebron....6 years later...most of the basketball world is putting Lebron in the top 5 all time.

If they play great and win...they get huge legacy boosts.

Whole different discussion about the flaws inherent in how a lot of people rank players, but this helps, not hurts...their legacies if they win together.

If they only win 1 title...does that enhance their legacy? how about 2 for the rest of their careers together...

[Sarcastic]

Nah...they enhanced it.

Ultimately nobody is going to care about this stuff.

People said the same stuff about Lebron....6 years later...most of the basketball world is putting Lebron in the top 5 all time.

If they play great and win...they get huge legacy boosts.

Whole different discussion about the flaws inherent in how a lot of people rank players, but this helps, not hurts...their legacies if they win together.


You joking? Warrior/Laker fans constantly bring up and hold 2010 against Lebron. Context is never forgotten.

[DMAVS41]

If they only win 1 title...does that enhance their legacy? how about 2 for the rest of their careers together...

Depends on the circumstances and how they play.

I'd imagine 1 title for Durant is better than none.

I'd imagine 2 titles is better than 1 for Curry.

Again...I find that way of ranking players flawed, but that is what people do. People will throw up their numbers and how many mvp's and titles they've won.

I don't see how giving yourself the best chance to win more is going to hurt their legacies.

Now, if they don't win any...yea...it hurts it.

[DMAVS41]

You joking? Warrior/Laker fans constantly bring up and hold 2010 against Lebron. Context is never forgotten.

ESPN just voted Lebron the 3rd best player ever....that was before his title on the Cavs.

What are you talking about? It didn't hurt his legacy at all.

[Sarcastic]

ESPN just voted Lebron the 3rd best player ever....that was before his title on the Cavs.

What are you talking about? It didn't hurt his legacy at all.

Are all of Kobe's rings equal? I mean he has 5, so he has more than Bird, so he's better, right?

[AceManIII]

Why can't KD win two rings with the Warriors then go to his home team, the Wizards, and get DC a ring?! :confusedshrug:

[knicksman]

I dont think they care about legacy anymore. After that draymond suspension, they just want to fcuk up nba so bad. Lots of fans have quit nba for good after this announcement

[NBAGOAT]

there's a decent chance one of them will emerge as the obvious 1st option so only one of their legacies will be limited. If it's a true 1a/1b type option, I guess you would be right. However if either of those guys are winning MVP's and championships, that guy's legacy will be fine.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron also has 4 MVPs, and has been utterly dominant. They ranked him #3 before he even won his third rings. His numbers, stats, and accolades have more to do with his ranking than just the rings.

[Doranku]

Are all of Kobe's rings equal? I mean he has 5, so he has more than Bird, so he's better, right?

Dude, what are you even arguing? Obviously they aren't all equal, but it's not like Kobe's legacy isn't boosted by those 3 rings and the huge role he had on those Laker teams.

Same way Curry/Durant will have their legacies boosted if they win a ring. Especially whoever becomes the #1 option.

[Sarcastic]

Dude, what are you even arguing? Obviously they aren't all equal, but it's not like Kobe's legacy isn't boosted by those 3 rings and the huge role he had on those Laker teams.

Same way Curry/Durant will have their legacies boosted if they win a ring. Especially whoever becomes the #1 option.

If it's between (win ring) or (not win ring), then yes winning is more important. What I am saying is that it's not just a yes/no question when it comes to legacies, which is what we are discussing. Context is important and never forgotten.

[IGOTGAME]

Depends on the circumstances and how they play.

I'd imagine 1 title for Durant is better than none.

I'd imagine 2 titles is better than 1 for Curry.

Again...I find that way of ranking players flawed, but that is what people do. People will throw up their numbers and how many mvp's and titles they've won.

I don't see how giving yourself the best chance to win more is going to hurt their legacies.

Now, if they don't win any...yea...it hurts it.

I guess I see. I don't rank players like that. If you lose series that you were susposed to win then I hold it against you. If you win series that you weren't suspossed to win I give you credit. If you win toss ups I give you credit.

In this scenario they are just supposed to win every series...

This is just how I values performance...skill set is another beast

[DMAVS41]

Are all of Kobe's rings equal? I mean he has 5, so he has more than Bird, so he's better, right?

I don't follow this. I don't rank players that way nor did I ever say all rings are equal.

I do think, the way most people rank legacies, that winning 1 is better than not winning 1.

Durant just spent years on very good teams...he never won. He just choked away a home game 6 with a chance to make the finals and a very good chance to win it all.

Him going to a team that is a perfect fit basketball wise and gives him the best chance to win is more likely to enhance his legacy rather than hurt it.

Like I said though...if they don't win even 1...then yea...it hurts it.

[DMAVS41]

I guess I see. I don't rank players like that. If you lose series that you were susposed to win then I hold it against you. If you win series that you weren't suspossed to win I give you credit. If you win toss ups I give you credit.

In this scenario they are just supposed to win every series...

This is just how I values performance...skill set is another beast

I like that.

I'm arguing from the standpoint of what most people view as a legacy...which we all know pretty much starts and stops with titles.

People will just care if he plays great and wins. If he does that...very few people will ultimately give a shit about this stuff.

[Sarcastic]

I don't follow this. I don't rank players that way nor did I ever say all rings are equal.

I do think, the way most people rank legacies, that winning 1 is better than not winning 1.

Durant just spent years on very good teams...he never won. He just choked away a home game 6 with a chance to make the finals and a very good chance to win it all.

Him going to a team that is a perfect fit basketball wise and gives him the best chance to win is more likely to enhance his legacy rather than hurt it.

Like I said though...if they don't win even 1...then yea...it hurts it.

Of course winning 1 will boost a legacy, but not being able to win with your original team also is as well.

Look at Drexler again. How much credit is he given for going to Houston? Is he better than Barkley with 0? Is he better than Malone with 0? Is he better than even Ewing with 0?

[DMAVS41]

Of course winning 1 will boost a legacy, but not being able to win with your original team also is as well.

Look at Drexler again. How much credit is he given for going to Houston? Is he better than Barkley with 0? Is he better than Malone with 0? Is he better than even Ewing with 0?

Agreed.

It hurts his legacy that he never won with OKC. Of course.

But we can't change that now. The options were stay in OKC or go to GSW essentially here.

And the best chance to get that 1 (that you agreed would be a boost) is GSW.

Not saying it is right or wrong...I just know how the most people think in this regard.

[Sarcastic]

Look at David Robinson as another example. His legacy is barely boosted from his 2 rings. His entire legacy is based on his dominance before Duncan came along.

Like I said, context is super fcking important.

[DMAVS41]

Look at David Robinson as another example. His legacy is barely boosted from his 2 rings. His entire legacy is based on his dominance before Duncan came along.

Like I said, context is super fcking important.

Of course.

The difference is that KD will be winning his ring or rings (in this hypothetical of course) as a far better player than Robinson was at that point.

Again...it of course matters how well he plays.

If he puts up 12/6/4 and plays like shit...it won't be worth much at all. I think everyone already agrees with that.

[Sarcastic]

Of course.

The difference is that KD will be winning his ring or rings (in this hypothetical of course) as a far better player than Robinson was at that point.

Again...it of course matters how well he plays.

If he puts up 12/6/4 and plays like shit...it won't be worth much at all. I think everyone already agrees with that.


Well people are saying all he has to do is win, and the how doesn't matter. Of course it matters. How you win matters so much that Lebron tanked 2010 away because winning without a FMVP would hurt his legacy.

Jordan's legacy is that he is 6/6. If he were 5/6, it would be held against him.

[DMAVS41]

Well people are saying all he has to do is win, and the how doesn't matter. Of course it matters. How you win matters so much that Lebron tanked 2010 away because winning without a FMVP would hurt his legacy.

Jordan's legacy is that he is 6/6. If he were 5/6, it would be held against him.

I think people are assuming he just plays like the player he is.

I agree with you of course it matters.

I just think everyone ultimately agrees how a player plays really matters...even if they don't say so.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Agreed.

It hurts his legacy that he never won with OKC. Of course.

But we can't change that now. The options were stay in OKC or go to GSW essentially here.

And the best chance to get that 1 (that you agreed would be a boost) is GSW.

Not saying it is right or wrong...I just know how the most people think in this regard.
KD also had the option to go to Boston, Miami, or San Antonio. winning a ring with one of those teams would have been a lot more respectable and legacy boosting than going to the DUbs

[DMAVS41]

KD also had the option to go to Boston, Miami, or San Antonio. winning a ring with one of those teams would have been a lot more respectable and legacy boosting than going to the DUbs

Agreed.

[Mr Feeny]

Playing on stacked rosters really devastated the legacies of Russell, Kareem, Magic, and Bird. :rolleyes:

Like it or not, in 20 years, all people will do is count the rings. Curry and Durant will be celebrated like the Stars they were. Guys like Klay and DrayGod will be remembered in the same light as Scott, Worthy, DJ, and Parish.That's not really true otherwise Sam Jones would be considered better than Wade or Kobe. And worthy would be considered better than Lebron.

[Mr Feeny]

I think he will win 1 or 2 MVP's (I don't think Curry will age gracefully)

3 FMVP's and 3 rings.

So that's pretty much Lebron's hardware plus 4 scoring titles.

They'll both be ranked ahead of Kobe within a few years. Mark my words.

Lebron is difficult to catch. He has 4 regular season mvps which nobody is catching now. That ship has sailed.i think over the next 4 finals if they could split them and each have 2 fmvps that would be gold.

That would make it:
1 mvp + 2 fmvps for durant (AND better per than kobe)
2 MVPs + 2 fmvps for Curry (and better PER than kobe)

That would be delicious :D

[TheWinningFam]

Its amazing, KD and curry limited their legacy while potentially boosting lebron to GOAT status, with kd joining the warriors, theres no way in HELL anyone on that team wins MVP this will lead to lebron locking up his 5th reg season mvp
An improbable win over the most stacked team in nba history would be all it takes.

5 mvps
4 fmvp
4 championships
2 rings with 2 different teams, INCLUDING his home town, (No other great has done this)
All time leading playoff scorer
Leading BOTH teams in ALL statistical categories for the 2nd consecutive finals

Prepare to be amazed. :bowdown:

[SexSymbol]

after a few years noone will care and a ring will still be a ring

[Quickening]

after a few years noone will care and a ring will still be a ring

This as long as Durant wins the fmvps with it... if he doesn't people will forever mention 73 win season and him riding coat tails.

If he wins 3-4 rings, and gets 3 fmvps or so...it will be a huge boost to his legacy.

[Mr Feeny]

This as long as Durant wins the fmvps with it... if he doesn't people will forever mention 73 win season and him riding coat tails.

If he wins 3-4 rings, and gets 3 fmvps or so...it will be a huge boost to his legacy.

This is what I'm saying. Durant and Curry will BOTH be considered better players than Kobe within a few years. In curry's case, that could happen as early as this coming year!

Mark my words. The landscape of basketball is changing.

[TheWinningFam]

This is what I'm saying. Durant and Curry will BOTH be considered better players than Kobe within a few years. In curry's case, that could happen as early as this coming year!

Mark my words. The landscape of basketball is changing.
A new GOAT is coming next year, Book it. :bowdown:

[Paul George 24]

durant is just a coward,even worse than lebron

[TheWinningFam]

durant is just a coward,even worse than lebron
Atleast he didn't get his father killed. nothings more cowardly than that imo.

[2swift4u]

It all depends on whether they win or not. If they win, people will quickly forget about this decision and Durant will be celebrated as a champion. And Durant probably won't care whether it was the easy way or not. However if they lose, then...

[soots]

Lol. memory of a goldfish.

People forgot about LBJ colluding in 3 games and now have him top 5 lol

[K.dot ShowTime]

by the time they get the 2nd ring together both of them will push LeCollude out of the top 10.

[plowking]

lol at fans getting upset over all this.

Most of you don't have the ability, or willingness to analyze players for who they really are, and how good they actually are on court. Most of you consistently bring up ring count as the only thing to determine a players worth. Only now after something like this happens, all of a sudden rings aren't the only thing?

If Durant never won a damn ring, I could tell you even then that he is quite comfortably a top 20, probably top 15 player ever. People don't even want to realize how good he is. He isn't a choker, or a beta, etc. Both him and Curry are some of the best players to ever play. Just like how LeBron was one of the 5 best players to ever play before he ever won a ring. Now that he has it is all the more convenient to rank him properly, but other players don't get their worth represented in these stupid rankings.

[IGOTGAME]

lol at fans getting upset over all this.

Most of you don't have the ability, or willingness to analyze players for who they really are, and how good they actually are on court. Most of you consistently bring up ring count as the only thing to determine a players worth. Only now after something like this happens, all of a sudden rings aren't the only thing?

If Durant never won a damn ring, I could tell you even then that he is quite comfortably a top 20, probably top 15 player ever. People don't even want to realize how good he is. He isn't a choker, or a beta, etc. Both him and Curry are some of the best players to ever play. Just like how LeBron was one of the 5 best players to ever play before he ever won a ring. Now that he has it is all the more convenient to rank him properly, but other players don't get their worth represented in these stupid rankings.

Skill set matters a lot but you have to get it done. Winning in this situation doesn't prove to me that KD is any better than Barkley of David Robinson. So what changes, does he get the benefit of the doubt over those guys because he played on a team that did exactly what they should have done due to its talent level?

You lose great players competing against each other of fair enough playing fields...it's not a good look in that regard

[ArbitraryWater]

lol at fans getting upset over all this.

Most of you don't have the ability, or willingness to analyze players for who they really are, and how good they actually are on court. Most of you consistently bring up ring count as the only thing to determine a players worth. Only now after something like this happens, all of a sudden rings aren't the only thing?

If Durant never won a damn ring, I could tell you even then that he is quite comfortably a top 20, probably top 15 player ever. People don't even want to realize how good he is. He isn't a choker, or a beta, etc. Both him and Curry are some of the best players to ever play. Just like how LeBron was one of the 5 best players to ever play before he ever won a ring. Now that he has it is all the more convenient to rank him properly, but other players don't get their worth represented in these stupid rankings.

He hasnt done nearly enough so far in the postseason for that..

and Bron actually wasnt top 3 before he won his last games with the finals 3 games that he had, shifted the entire landscape of the NBA with his play, beating a 73 win team.... it had the story and the play to match it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Skill set matters a lot but you have to get it done. Winning in this situation doesn't prove to me that KD is any better than Barkley of David Robinson. So what changes, does he get the benefit of the doubt over those guys because he played on a team that did exactly what they should have done due to its talent level?

You lose great players competing against each other of fair enough playing fields...it's not a good look in that regard

Exactly.... he wont be looked at any better. From anyone. Guarandamnteed.

If he wouldnt win hed still be in the same top 20-25 area, but he wouldnt get the benefit of the doubt now, when you look at him and 2-3 other close players.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Durant gonna end up with 5 rings and 4 FMVP's and maybe a couple of MVP's.

[SecondTake]

Curry most definitely did. He put up perhaps the most impressive offensive regular season of all time, he just choked super hard all playoffs post portland series.

Give me a break. MJ had 35 point seasons and a 32 point season with 8 assists, 8 rebounds on 54%. Curry barely put up 30 on 50% with less assists and rebounds. His season is not even in the same league as MJ's offensively, it's not even better than multiple Shaq seasons, arguably Durants MVP season or many others with better numbers.

[SecondTake]

lol at fans getting upset over all this.

Most of you don't have the ability, or willingness to analyze players for who they really are, and how good they actually are on court. Most of you consistently bring up ring count as the only thing to determine a players worth. Only now after something like this happens, all of a sudden rings aren't the only thing?

If Durant never won a damn ring, I could tell you even then that he is quite comfortably a top 20, probably top 15 player ever. People don't even want to realize how good he is. He isn't a choker, or a beta, etc. Both him and Curry are some of the best players to ever play. Just like how LeBron was one of the 5 best players to ever play before he ever won a ring. Now that he has it is all the more convenient to rank him properly, but other players don't get their worth represented in these stupid rankings.

The point of playing is to win rings. So yeah, rings are the most important factor of the discussion when ranking players, if you cant accomplish the whole goal of playing in the NBA you're not among the greatest. And yeah, Durant has choked several times, most recently against GSW.

[SecondTake]

This is what I'm saying. Durant and Curry will BOTH be considered better players than Kobe within a few years. In curry's case, that could happen as early as this coming year!

Mark my words. The landscape of basketball is changing.

First Curry needs to make sure he doesn't 3peat for the greatest super star choke job in finals history. Then maybe we can discuss who he has surpassed. First he needs to surpass his own bench in the finals.

[Doctor K]

No one is saying he can't reach top 10. That's obvious lol

What I'm saying is Durant really will not be able to separate himself from the Karl Malones, Barkleys, David Robinsons. Hell, he really can't ever surpass Nowitzki now. He could have before. But not anymore.


I mean Malone, Barkley, Robinson had just as good or better resumes than Durant with their respective teams. Are you telling me if Malone or Barkley or Robinson joined the Chicago Bulls in the 90s they wouldn't win titles? Thats what KD is diong.


And before anyone says, no one will care how he won. Yes they will. Take Oscar Robertson as an example. He is a Top 10 GOAT talent. He eventually got his ring in MIL with Kareem, but a ring in CIN is what would have made him top 10. A ring in MIL didn't do much for him. He was still an all-star and all.

[DMAVS41]

No one is saying he can't reach top 10. That's obvious lol

What I'm saying is Durant really will not be able to separate himself from the Karl Malones, Barkleys, David Robinsons. Hell, he really can't ever surpass Nowitzki now. He could have before. But not anymore.


I mean Malone, Barkley, Robinson had just as good or better resumes than Durant with their respective teams. Are you telling me if Malone or Barkley or Robinson joined the Chicago Bulls in the 90s they wouldn't win titles? Thats what KD is diong.


And before anyone says, no one will care how he won. Yes they will. Take Oscar Robertson as an example. He is a Top 10 GOAT talent. He eventually got his ring in MIL with Kareem, but a ring in CIN is what would have made him top 10. A ring in MIL didn't do much for him. He was still an all-star and all.

Can't disagree with this.

It is a well thought out position that is actually looking at the variables and circumstances and level of play / impact.

However, most people (of course doesn't make it right)...will just throw up Durant's career stats and advanced stats...along with titles won, mvps won, and fmvps won.

And it will be stupid, but if Durant plays great and wins like 3 titles and 2 finals mvps on the Warriors. He'll go down as a better player than most of the guys you mentioned.

So I totally agree with your point, but my point is that the masses just won't be having that nuanced conversation.

[Doctor K]

Can't disagree with this.

It is a well thought out position that is actually looking at the variables and circumstances and level of play / impact.

However, most people (of course doesn't make it right)...will just throw up Durant's career stats and advanced stats...along with titles won, mvps won, and fmvps won.

And it will be stupid, but if Durant plays great and wins like 3 titles and 2 finals mvps on the Warriors. He'll go down as a better player than most of the guys you mentioned.

So I totally agree with your point, but my point is that the masses just won't be having that nuanced conversation.

I get what u sayin. maybe for masses he maybe like you said. But in any intellectual argument, KD vs. Robinson/Malone/Barkley, he's going to have it tough and the KD side is going to look really silly.

Take a peek at KD vs. Nowitzki. Nowitzki also won MVP and won Finals MVP with his own team as the clear-cut superstar of it with 2nd not even close. KD had most his prime to do this, he couldn't. He had a better starcast around him than Dirk. How can anyone seroiusly think KD is better because he joins an already championship team and wins a championship LOL

[Magic 32]

What will happen is that KD takes the lead, Curry becomes the second option...

..then KD just have to puts up some amazing numbers in 1 or 2 series every year (and in the finals for sure), a couple of classic games here and there.....in the top 10 in no time.

If Lebron gets all the credit for his rings....no way KD should get any different treatment

And the west is reduced to EC level.

It's a brilliant move by KD. Period.

[DMAVS41]

I get what u sayin. maybe for masses he maybe like you said. But in any intellectual argument, KD vs. Robinson/Malone/Barkley, he's going to have it tough and the KD side is going to look really silly.

Take a peek at KD vs. Nowitzki. Nowitzki also won MVP and won Finals MVP with his own team as the clear-cut superstar of it with 2nd not even close. KD had most his prime to do this, he couldn't. He had a better starcast around him than Dirk. How can anyone seroiusly think KD is better because he joins an already championship team and wins a championship LOL

Completely agree.

Until I see Durant take the ownership of being the championship first option franchise player (which now he'll have to do much later in his career, but still possible)...he can't touch Dirk for me.

Not even a discussion. Dirk not only never had close to the kind of help Durant did, but he didn't run away when things didn't go his way. He was back in the gym working his ass off...not having teams come grovel to him in the Hamptons like a little teenage girl having a sweet 16 party.

2 year ago I got killed here in thread about Durant being better than Kobe ever was. The ****? Better than Kobe ever was? If Kobe was a free agent and a team like the Warriors just knocked him out of the playoffs with him playing poorly in the biggest game of the series...and they called to ask him to join them. He'd hang up the phone so fast and be out on the court working his ass off 24/7. He wouldn't run...

Better than Kobe ever was...:facepalm

[Springsteen]

What will happen is that KD takes the lead, Curry becomes the second option...

..then KD just have to puts up some amazing numbers in a 1 or 2 series every year (and in the finals for sure), a couple of classic games here and there.....in the top 10 in no time.

If Lebron gets all the credit for his rings....no way KD should get any different treatment

And the west is reduced to EC level.

It's a brilliant move by KD. Period.

You're assuming that KD won't crap the bed and let another another player like Westbrook take the wheel as top dog during the playoffs, like last season.

[Magic 32]

You're assuming that KD won't crap the bed and let another another player like Westbrook take the wheel as top dog during the playoffs, like last season.

Everything I have seen from Westbrook and Curry/Klay/Green suggest that I will be right.

[TheMan]

So I guess LeBron's legacy was damaged playing alongside Wade, Bosh and Allen :rolleyes:

[ArbitraryWater]

So I guess LeBron's legacy was damaged playing alongside Wade, Bosh and Allen :rolleyes:

http://i.imgur.com/s1owAjT.png

[Doctor K]

So I guess LeBron's legacy was damaged playing alongside Wade, Bosh and Allen :rolleyes:

sure if KD comes back and wins a title with OKC he is good too :rolleyes:

[bizil]

I don't knock KD for leaving OKC. But imagine MJ JOINING the Bad Boy Pistons back in the day... When it was APPARENT the Bulls were gonna be the team of the future and pass Detroit by. It just took Pip and Horace coming of age. It was only a matter of time. Durant was in a BETTER situation with OKC. They had GS on the ropes. When u have a squad on the cusp of greatness, stick it out to accomplish it. Don't leave and JOIN THE TEAM u had on the ropes.

So its not about KD leaving. Its about leaving a team on the verge of great things THAT HE BUILT and joining the rival!! OKC vs. GS looked to be the premier rivalry in the West going forward.

In many ways, this is the most controversial free agent signing in American team sports history. KD has the right to do it though of course. And it looks to be an epic fit in terms of a basketball decision.

[bizil]

Completely agree.

Until I see Durant take the ownership of being the championship first option franchise player (which now he'll have to do much later in his career, but still possible)...he can't touch Dirk for me.

Not even a discussion. Dirk not only never had close to the kind of help Durant did, but he didn't run away when things didn't go his way. He was back in the gym working his ass off...not having teams come grovel to him in the Hamptons like a little teenage girl having a sweet 16 party.

2 year ago I got killed here in thread about Durant being better than Kobe ever was. The ****? Better than Kobe ever was? If Kobe was a free agent and a team like the Warriors just knocked him out of the playoffs with him playing poorly in the biggest game of the series...and they called to ask him to join them. He'd hang up the phone so fast and be out on the court working his ass off 24/7. He wouldn't run...

Better than Kobe ever was...:facepalm

Well said! Kobe was the last of a dying breed. He cut his teeth against the guys like MJ, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Dream, etc. And Durant was NEVER better than Kobe. Kobe was one of the RARE superstars to not have a weakness. At his best, he was great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder for his position. KD's a beast, but he's not as complete or as HARD NOSED as peak Kobe.

So once again, its not about KD leaving. It's about having PRIDE in what u have built. It's about being a world championship caliber team AND LEAVING for the rival when your goals are about to be reached. If OKC didn't have what it took to beat GSW, it would be a different story. Sports are built HUGELY on rivalries.

If EVERY PLAYER thought the way KD did, we WOULDN'T have long terms rivalries anymore. Imagine Magic coming up short against Boston, but LEAVING to go play with them if he was able... Or vice versa, imagine Bird or Dr. J joining the Lakers if they were able to. With that said, it's a GM's job to stack the deck and get the best team possible. But u would THINK a superstar's pride would want to finish the job he started. When a title reign is DAMN CLOSE to happening.

[CelticBaller]

Funny thing is

Real fans won't give a **** about this, I sure ass hell didn't give two shits when Paul pierce got help, as long as we're guaranteed a tile who really gives a ****

[KingPush]

What will happen is that KD takes the lead, Curry becomes the second option...

..then KD just have to puts up some amazing numbers in 1 or 2 series every year (and in the finals for sure), a couple of classic games here and there.....in the top 10 in no time.

If Lebron gets all the credit for his rings....no way KD should get any different treatment

And the west is reduced to EC level.

It's a brilliant move by KD. Period.
Yea, like outplaying Curry is something anyone can just do.

Curry is gonna have the ball more often than KD, I think Durant is gonna have to be the 2nd option

[SecondTake]

Yea, like outplaying Curry is something anyone can just do.

Curry is gonna have the ball more often than KD, I think Durant is gonna have to be the 2nd option

If even his own bench can outplay him in the finals then U'm sure Durant can too.

[Overdrive]

Well said! Kobe was the last of a dying breed. He cut his teeth against the guys like MJ, Malone, Stockton, Drexler, Dream, etc. And Durant was NEVER better than Kobe. Kobe was one of the RARE superstars to not have a weakness. At his best, he was great scorer, great passer, great defender, and great rebounder for his position. KD's a beast, but he's not as complete or as HARD NOSED as peak Kobe.

So once again, its not about KD leaving. It's about having PRIDE in what u have built. It's about being a world championship caliber team AND LEAVING for the rival when your goals are about to be reached. If OKC didn't have what it took to beat GSW, it would be a different story. Sports are built HUGELY on rivalries.

If EVERY PLAYER thought the way KD did, we WOULDN'T have long terms rivalries anymore. Imagine Magic coming up short against Boston, but LEAVING to go play with them if he was able... Or vice versa, imagine Bird or Dr. J joining the Lakers if they were able to. With that said, it's a GM's job to stack the deck and get the best team possible. But u would THINK a superstar's pride would want to finish the job he started. When a title reign is DAMN CLOSE to happening.

Kobe comparison is pretty bad. He started his career with prime Shaq and won rings soon enough. What did he do the moment it wasn't working out after Shaq left? He demanded a trade. It's not about being hard nosed, Barkley ie also joined a stacked team. So did Pippen, twice. It's nothing totally new , it's just the magnitude is bigger than ever before.

In a way it reminds me of Orlando Shaq, but he would've needed to join the Bulls for it to be the same.

[DMAVS41]

Kobe comparison is pretty bad. He started his career with prime Shaq and won rings soon enough. What did he do the moment it wasn't working out after Shaq left? He demanded a trade. It's not about being hard nosed, Barkley ie also joined a stacked team. So did Pippen, twice. It's nothing totally new , it's just the magnitude is bigger than ever before.

In a way it reminds me of Orlando Shaq, but he would've needed to join the Bulls for it to be the same.

I'm not a fan of Kobe, but it is a good example.

The notion that Kobe would have joined up with a team like the Warriors is one of the most laughable notions ever.

This is a dude that wanted Shaq gone to prove he could do it without him. Not saying that is right, but you can't even for a second think Kobe is running to the best team when he already has a great team.

Kobe demanding a trade was weak imo, for a variety of reasons, but again...he had a shit team at the time. Durant just left a great team to join and even greater team.

Which is fine...it was his right...but it was also weak and deserves criticism when he is being compared to the likes of guys like Dirk and Duncan.

[I.R.Beast]

If LeBron's legacy didn't take a hit playing with Wade and Bosh then why would Durant's take a hit playing with Curry?..

[I.R.Beast]

Yea, like outplaying Curry is something anyone can just do.

Curry is gonna have the ball more often than KD, I think Durant is gonna have to be the 2nd option
Durant being the second option to Stephen Curry is just comical.. Durant is clearly the better play...

[bizil]

In my opinion, its not about KD leaving OKC. ITS ABOUT the team he went to, and HOW CLOSE OKC was to being a world champion. Its about being up 3-1 and KD NOT producing the way he should have in that series. Im sorry, I just can't imagine MJ joining the Pistons. Or Magic joining the Lakers. Or Bird joining the Lakers. Or Isiah joining the Celtics. If those teams WEREN'T great or on the cusp of greatness, then that's different. Nothing wrong with having super teams, its just the manner in which KD left.

EVEN if those guys were able to join those teams somehow, they wouldn't have done it. ITS BECAUSE they were on the way to eclipsing those teams. Or were already champs or in serious contention to be a world champion. When a franchise IS BUILT AROUND u, its a different level of responsibility and pride. Magic, Bird, MJ, Doc, and Zeke were about getting revenge and reaching the pinnacle.

Bron leaving for the Heat was TOTALLY different than KD leaving for GSW. Bron and the Cavs actually OVERACHIEVED given the roster they had in his first run there. At some point, Bron was gonna wear himself out having to do so much. The Cavs never really surrounded him with teams capable of winning titles. OKC on the other hand did a magnificent job surrounding KD with guys like Westbrook, Harden, etc.

[Hey Yo]

Durant will be in the Mount Rushmore conversation by the end of this decade. Just accept it.

And the hate will be nothing compared to the reaction to "not 1, not 2, not 3....." party and the 2011 finals meltdown.

By the way.....Lebron fans thought they could get away with 2 colluding moves and not have some kind of major blowback?

This is karma on a intergalactic level. Too bad Durant was one year too late.
http://images1.tickld.com/live/1298745.jpg



http://dystnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/LeBron-2016-NBA-Champion.jpg