Stephen A Smith made another video about Durant [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

HoopSuperstar

07-04-2016, 07:23 PM

To be fair, if it was Durant in the finals instead of Barnes bricking everything the Warriors wouldve swept probably

People forget that Durant represents match up problems cause of his height.
So they'll be very tough to guard. Plus they'll be blowing teams away, so Curry will rest and so will Durant. Thats why Spurs and Warriors had 60 wins. The league will suffer immensely , the league really is watered down.

SexSymbol

07-04-2016, 07:25 PM

there's no difference between this and LeBron leaving.

Sarcastic

07-04-2016, 07:40 PM

there's no difference between this and LeBron leaving.

Yes there is. Watch the video.

Magic 32

07-04-2016, 07:46 PM

Asukal

07-04-2016, 07:49 PM

If KD did this 2 years ago, he wouldn't be criticized for it. :lol

NBAGOAT

07-04-2016, 07:49 PM

http://espn.go.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/16763862/will-kevin-durant-help-legacy-golden-state-warriors-nba

It has begun.

Hope Lebron fans enjoy this. Duncan and Kobe fans had to endure this for 6 years.

I would call myself a Lebron fan and I'm not really mad at Durant. Just feel bad for a few other stars in the league who don't have much to look forward to now.

artex

07-04-2016, 07:59 PM

I got About twenty seconds in when he raised his voice to sound tough and the same gut wrenching feeling I get whenever some corny sportscenter idiot speaks came back

Twenty minutes of this dumb**** preaching no thanks

Boogaboog

07-04-2016, 08:16 PM

Stephen A is a piece of shit, but he's right on the money here.

This.

shadow

07-04-2016, 08:20 PM

Man is SAS a OKC or Spurs fan? He's taking it kinda hard...

Wally450

07-04-2016, 08:21 PM

there's no difference between this and LeBron leaving.

You're an awful poster.

RoundMoundOfReb

07-04-2016, 08:23 PM

there's no difference between this and LeBron leaving.

There's no difference between you and a severely autistic child

SilkkTheShocker

07-04-2016, 08:47 PM

His house looks really s.hitty

D-Wait

07-04-2016, 08:54 PM

You can say what you want about Stephen A. but that meltdown about Durant was from the heart. He's such a big fan of the sport and wants it to be competitive, he says this all the time. What's the point in watching this season anymore when you know the Warriors will win, unless Lebron somehow goes superhuman? I totally agree with his opinion that Durant's decision can't be compared to Lebron's in 2010.

tamaraw08

07-04-2016, 08:59 PM

Agreed. This is the one time I find myself agreeing with him

But how come he didn't rant about Aldridge and David West leaving their teams to join a superteam like the Spurs then?

J Shuttlesworth

07-04-2016, 09:04 PM

But how come he didn't rant about Aldridge and David West leaving their teams to join a superteam like the Spurs then?
Probably because they are not MVP level players, and the Spurs weren't worth 73 wins

D-Wait

07-04-2016, 09:05 PM

But how come he didn't rant about Aldridge and David West leaving their teams to join a superteam like the Spurs then?

In what world were the Spurs comparable to the freaking 73-win Warriors? The Spurs' only other star has been Leonard... as opposed to Curry, Thompson and Green in their primes for years to come :facepalm

AintNoSunshine

07-04-2016, 09:06 PM

His house looks really s.hitty
Not everyone is in the NBA free agency this year:lol

Ben Simmons

07-04-2016, 09:07 PM

But how come he didn't rant about Aldridge and David West leaving their teams to join a superteam like the Spurs then?
73 wins.

FLDFSU

07-04-2016, 09:10 PM

D-Wait

07-04-2016, 09:17 PM

I am sorry but people do have a point about the Spurs and LMA.

LMA left his team and his all-star point guard to go chase rings in SA.

The Spurs cannot talk ish about the Warriors because the Warriors have 3 starters that they drafted...and a major piece that they acquired through free agency....just like the Spurs.

So the Spurs can save their: "Earn not bought BS" because they are exactly like everyone else. And LMA is as big of a bitch as KD.

LMA was 30 years old and not considered a top 3 player in the league who could lead a team to a chip. But I get your point. The backcourt of Lillard and McCollum was very promising and even LMA's comments of staying in Portland beforehand looked very bad in the aftermath.

KingPush

07-04-2016, 09:20 PM

AcquiringSteak

07-04-2016, 09:27 PM

LOL why are people trying to compare KD and Aldridge? The only person this is comparable to is Lebron, and even then it's totally different. Miami was struggling hard in playoffs and Lebron literally had no one. He was carrying a bunch of scrubs. KD has a strong contender team and the Warriors made the finals and won a ring year before... Really no comparison to Lebrons decision.

FLDFSU

07-04-2016, 09:28 PM

No one gives a shit about Aldridge

Well, yeah I see that. But LMA regardless should absolutely get hated on more than Lebron and as much as KD.

He and Lillard could have absolutely won a ring in Portland as Curry and Thompson did. It just would have required LMA to play like the Superstar his salary demands.

Chris Bosh got 100000x more hate than LMA and Bosh never played with a Lillard in Toronto.

HoopSuperstar

07-04-2016, 09:37 PM

Well, yeah I see that. But LMA regardless should absolutely get hated on more than Lebron and as much as KD.

He and Lillard could have absolutely won a ring in Portland as Curry and Thompson did. It just would have required LMA to play like the Superstar his salary demands.

Chris Bosh got 100000x more hate than LMA and Bosh never played with a Lillard in Toronto.

He joined an aging team with just one star. Duncan is retiring, Ginobili is next and Parker is now a back up point guard. Blazers were going nowhere soon unlike OKC that was just one game away from reaching the finals.

AngelEyes

07-04-2016, 09:39 PM

When I first opened the video I thought Ron Artest's face had melted.

HoopSuperstar

07-04-2016, 09:43 PM

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/3f/d3/e5/3fd3e5a5693346ce6c6db07aa452ef71.jpg

J Shuttlesworth

07-04-2016, 09:44 PM

I am sorry but people do have a point about the Spurs and LMA.

LMA left his team and his all-star point guard to go chase rings in SA.

The Spurs cannot talk ish about the Warriors because the Warriors have 3 starters that they drafted...and a major piece that they acquired through free agency....just like the Spurs.

So the Spurs can save their: "Earn not bought BS" because they are exactly like everyone else. And LMA is as big of a bitch as KD.
The team LA left isn't nearly as good as the one Durant left. Don't forget KD was a choke away from beating the Warriors in 5, or 6.

FLDFSU

07-04-2016, 09:50 PM

The team LA left isn't nearly as good as the one Durant left. Don't forget KD was a choke away from beating the Warriors in 5, or 6.

I agree 100%. I am just saying that LMA literally got ZERO hate for joining a conference rival. ZERO. NADA. NOTHING. No one said a damn word about LMA abandoning his all-star point guard to go ring chase against a team he should have been competing against.

The funny thing is that if LMA went to the Cavs instead of the Spurs ISH would have a meltdown. LMA suddenly would turn into a "Superstar in his prime and a top 10 NBA player" leaving his team to "collude".

Ray Allen got 500000x more hate when he joined the Heat. Again, LMA got ZERO. In fact, it was celebrated. ISH arbitrary picks and chooses when and how to get offended. Again, I agree 100% that KD is worst than LMA but it is still funny how LMA got no hate whatsoever.

HoopSuperstar

07-04-2016, 10:04 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYZYFYB6RuU

tamaraw08

07-05-2016, 12:19 AM

In what world were the Spurs comparable to the freaking 73-win Warriors? The Spurs' only other star has been Leonard... as opposed to Curry, Thompson and Green in their primes for years to come :facepalm

The 5 time Champions Spurs maybe old but who did they lose exactly?
Pops is the greatest coach in the past 10 years or so.
Parker, Duncan and Ginobli maybe be older but they are also wiser, how many teams have a very good 3pt shooter and play tough defense like Green and have arguably the best back up PG,
plus you are being myopic in terms of simply focusing on no. of superstars and their stats what about collectively as a team?.
2nd in Defensive rating.
3rd in points allowed.
7th in Offensive rating. This all happened AFTER JUST WINNING THE RING.
Were most teams usually take it easy or gets over confident.
And why didn't they win 70+ games? I don't know, maybe because Leonard missed 18 games, Parker missed 14 games and Manu missed 12 games etc ?
So please don't make it sound like the Spurs were just barely an above average team as compared to GSW. Five time champions, that is not a fluke where they won one ring mostly because 2 of the teams they faced in the playoffs had MAJOR INJURIES.
The situation will never be identical but the idea of taking shortcuts to win a ring is the same.
The worst for me is David West who knew he would be a backup and play 18 minutes just to win a ring. The year before, he played 29 mins and was a major contributor.

KirbyPls

07-05-2016, 12:32 AM

I agree 100%. I am just saying that LMA literally got ZERO hate for joining a conference rival. ZERO. NADA. NOTHING. No one said a damn word about LMA abandoning his all-star point guard to go ring chase against a team he should have been competing against.

The funny thing is that if LMA went to the Cavs instead of the Spurs ISH would have a meltdown. LMA suddenly would turn into a "Superstar in his prime and a top 10 NBA player" leaving his team to "collude".

Ray Allen got 500000x more hate when he joined the Heat. Again, LMA got ZERO. In fact, it was celebrated. ISH arbitrary picks and chooses when and how to get offended. Again, I agree 100% that KD is worst than LMA but it is still funny how LMA got no hate whatsoever.

Nothing arbitrary about it, It's Lebron hate and little else. See Magic32's entire career here.

tamaraw08

07-05-2016, 12:46 AM

I agree 100%. I am just saying that LMA literally got ZERO hate for joining a conference rival. ZERO. NADA. NOTHING. No one said a damn word about LMA abandoning his all-star point guard to go ring chase against a team he should have been competing against.

The funny thing is that if LMA went to the Cavs instead of the Spurs ISH would have a meltdown. LMA suddenly would turn into a "Superstar in his prime and a top 10 NBA player" leaving his team to "collude".

Ray Allen got 500000x more hate when he joined the Heat. Again, LMA got ZERO. In fact, it was celebrated. ISH arbitrary picks and chooses when and how to get offended. Again, I agree 100% that KD is worst than LMA but it is still funny how LMA got no hate whatsoever.

Several months ago, I posted my disgust on how the Spurs manipulated the system. They didn't have the cap space to pay LMA, so what did they do?
Call their ex assistant coach who was just promoted to be the Haws VP.
Dispose a back center who had like 8pts and 5 reb and his measly 9.25 million, and Bud happily accepted making him 3 highest paid ABOVE key starters Korver and Jeff Teague to play what role? As a freaking backup center.:rant

DirkNowitzki41

07-05-2016, 12:47 AM

Stephen A my man! Absolutely killing kd

"weakest move by a superstar in nba history" preach

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 08:00 AM

link gone?

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 01:36 PM

But how come he didn't rant about Aldridge and David West leaving their teams to join a superteam like the Spurs then?

Spurs got older and just won 56 games....

why the fck do people want to equate a 73 win team with the UMVP and 3 all stars adding a top 3 player and MVP from 2 years back, to just any good team making an all star addition?

Lmao.

kentatm

07-05-2016, 03:27 PM

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 03:30 PM

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 03:33 PM

lol at people pimping SAS as the voice of reason.

literally the only reason he has gone on this tirade is b/c Durant called him a liar a while back.

he keeps saying its about KD leaving for GS but I 100% guarantee he'd still be shitting on KD regardless of what he did.

This is definitely true.

However, what he is saying is accurate. It was incredibly weak to leave your team when you have that loaded of a roster with a top 5, in prime, teammate.

Durant has every right to do that and he made his own decision, but it is more than fair to criticize it.

kentatm

07-05-2016, 04:01 PM

This is definitely true.

However, what he is saying is accurate. It was incredibly weak to leave your team when you have that loaded of a roster with a top 5, in prime, teammate.

Durant has every right to do that and he made his own decision, but it is more than fair to criticize it.

If the rumors of KD being sick of playing w/Westbrook are true then doesn't that mean he doesn't think Russ is as good as the media does?

IMO the more interesting thing is that apparently dudes on the Warriors had been texting Durant all year and even during the playoffs begging him to come to their team.

Seems like the new CBA may have to change some of the tampering rules...

Who gives a shit about SAS's motivations? Why is he rent free in your head? Adress the factual points he made instead.

:lol SAS cant shut the **** up about Durant and its SAS in my head? :roll:

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 04:04 PM

If the rumors of KD being sick of playing w/Westbrook are true then doesn't that mean he doesn't think Russ is as good as the media does?

IMO the more interesting thing is that apparently dudes on the Warriors had been texting Durant all year and even during the playoffs begging him to come to their team.

Seems like the new CBA may have to change some of the tampering rules...

Agreed.

Also fair if Russ told him he was for sure leaving after this coming season regardless of outcome.

I just, personally, think it is a pretty weak move to leave that OKC team to join this Warriors team.

And the reason for that is because of guys like Dirk and Duncan (guys who he is being compared to in NBA history)...and how they didn't take the easier way out.

Honestly just makes me appreciate guys like that even more.

miggyme1

07-05-2016, 04:20 PM

Agreed.

Also fair if Russ told him he was for sure leaving after this coming season regardless of outcome.

I just, personally, think it is a pretty weak move to leave that OKC team to join this Warriors team.

And the reason for that is because of guys like Dirk and Duncan (guys who he is being compared to in NBA history)...and how they didn't take the easier way out.

Honestly just makes me appreciate guys like that even more.

The NBA is evolving......that's all it is...remember when you NEEDED a big man to win a ship??? Jordan came and changed that perspective....then everyone was looking for that "franchise changing" player like ai,tmac,vince etc.

The next phase was IMO the "stretch 4" craze....you look at every team that won a title from 2003 to hell basically now they have a had a "stretch 4".

Now we are entering a new phase....we will be seeing teams consisting of 3 to 4 hall of famers. Its gonna suck for a lot of teams and its gonna suck initially but give a take few more seasons and we should have a few superteams...spurs don't have much longer and contrary to popular belief the warriors have about a 3 to 5 year shelf life before the age starts to show.

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 04:24 PM

The NBA is evolving......that's all it is...remember when you NEEDED a big man to win a ship??? Jordan came and changed that perspective....then everyone was looking for that "franchise changing" player like ai,tmac,vince etc.

The next phase was IMO the "stretch 4" craze....you look at every team that won a title from 2003 to hell basically now they have a had a "stretch 4".

Now we are entering a new phase....we will be seeing teams consisting of 3 to 4 hall of famers. Its gonna suck for a lot of teams and its gonna suck initially but give a take few more seasons and we should have a few superteams...spurs don't have much longer and contrary to popular belief the warriors have about a 3 to 5 year shelf life before the age starts to show.

I think you are conflating two separate things here. There is no other team in the league that remotely approaches the kind of talent/team the Warriors now have.

This is an unprecedented move in NBA history and sports history. That is just true regardless of how one feels about it.

This is not going to be the new normal either...it won't be possible after next year anyway because a team this good will never have the chance to add a Durant type player given normal cap conditions.

This is pretty much a one time event...next year there is potential for something like this, but there really isn't a team comparable that could make it happen.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 04:38 PM

Rolando

07-05-2016, 04:47 PM

Lebron had to do A LOT to redeem himself. It took years.

Durant now will have to do the same. Chances are.....he'll fall flat on his face.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 04:53 PM

lol SAS cant shut the **** up about Durant and its SAS in my head? :roll:

You out here speculating about his motivations like they matter :oldlol:

LeBird

07-05-2016, 05:00 PM

The more I think about it, the less I actually care. Its just the NBA of today and it was LeBron who set the precedent.

Watching this video though kinda irked me. Sure, Durant joining a team he just lost to is kinda wack BUT LeBron left a 60+ win team, after "Le-elbow gate", and teamed up with the best SG and arguably best PF at the time (two established franchise caliber players).

I hate the media trying to spin shit just because LeBron has a few more titles under his belt. What Durant did was probably "worse", but its in the same ballpark - and again, its what the league has become with their HORRID cap situation.

By the retarded standard in the above, anyone that leaves for a better situation is just a different grade of bad.

You're totally missing the point. LeBron made the Cavs contenders and no one else; he didn't leave a stacked team. He also didn't join Miami when they were anything close to contenders. Even the teammates he joined up with don't compare to GSW.

The difference is even easier to spot when you think of it like this: if LeBron got injured in Miami, his team would probably barely make the playoffs; but if KD got injured next year GSW are still the favorites to win it all.

KD has basically said: **** any meaningful competition in the sport, I want shiny trinkets.

In a way he's a bitch for doing it. I also think fans who've propped up the rings argument for so long are also to blame.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:14 PM

By the retarded standard in the above, anyone that leaves for a better situation is just a different grade of bad.

I'm not surprised that's what you got from my post.

Your IQ level is roughly the same as my last bowel movement.

You're totally missing the point. LeBron made the Cavs contenders and no one else; he didn't leave a stacked team. He also didn't join Miami when they were anything close to contenders. Even the teammates he joined up with don't compare to GSW.

Hero ball talk. :oldlol:

Cleveland had an adequent supporting cast/team solely built around LeBron's skillset. Fact is, dude joined a team comprised of THE best 2 guard and arguable, at the time, the games best PF. TWO, not ONE, franchise caliber superstars.

People just pick and choose who to hate on. Now that LeBron has rings, and destroyed Curry this last finals, nobody gives a shit about the stuff in the past.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:18 PM

I'm not surprised that's what you got from my post.

Your IQ level is roughly the same as my last bowel movement.

Hero ball talk. :oldlol:

Cleveland had an adequent supporting cast/team solely built around LeBron's skillset. Fact is, dude joined a team comprised of THE best 2 guard and arguable, at the time, the games best PF. TWO, not ONE, franchise caliber superstars.

People just pick and choose who to hate on. Now that LeBron has rings, and destroyed Curry this last finals, nobody gives a shit about the stuff in the past.

oh stop this shit :oldlol:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:20 PM

oh stop this shit :oldlol:

Played in a shitty conference, made multiple conference finals, and even a finals appearance...and LeBron quit against Boston just before he left.

Fanboys will deny the facts, tho. :oldlol:

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:22 PM

Played in a shitty conference, made multiple conference finals, and even a finals appearance...and LeBron quit against Boston just before he left.

Fanboys will deny the facts, tho. :oldlol:

this 'supporting cast build around his skillset' is super lame... just because he made it work with a few bum shooters... to put it very simple

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:26 PM

this 'supporting cast build around his skillset' is super lame... just because he made it work with a few bum shooters... to put it very simple

Your boy quit just before bolting.

How does ANY team have a chance when their best player...packs it in? :confusedshrug:

So much revisionist history and delusion between Kobe and LeBron fans. DAMN. Now these pathetic Durant haters who have a different set of standards for the guy. Terrible. :oldlol:

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:28 PM

Your boy quit just before bolting.

How does ANY team have a chance when their best player...packs it in? :confusedshrug:

So much revisionist history and delusion between Kobe and LeBron fans. DAMN. Now these pathetic Durant haters who don't wanna apply the same standards they do for other players. Terrible. :oldlol:

Have you gone back to troll mode? ITS ME DUDE; AW; YOU CAN USE YOUR BRAIN ON ME....

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 05:29 PM

Whether Lebron quit or not...

Comparing the 16 Thunder to the 10 Cavs in terms of supporting casts is disingenuous at best.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:29 PM

Btw it almost seems like youre giving KD a pass which is super weak

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:31 PM

Have you gone back to troll mode? ITS ME DUDE; AW; YOU CAN USE YOUR BRAIN ON ME....

Nothing I said was "trolling".

If you don't like the truth, scram kiddo. :confusedshrug:

Whether Lebron quit or not...

Comparing the 16 Thunder to the 10 Cavs in terms of supporting casts is disingenuous at best.

Never even compared the two, if you were directing that post @ me...

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:35 PM

I dont know man... you made the point about the Cavs team being catered to Brons strengths, apparently...

and your next post was

Your boy quit just before bolting.

How does ANY team have a chance when their best player...packs it in? :confusedshrug:

So much revisionist history and delusion between Kobe and LeBron fans. DAMN. Now these pathetic Durant haters who have a different set of standards for the guy. Terrible. :oldlol:

So not just did you make ill advised comparisons between the supporting casts they had, you also letting KD off the hook for being the biggest bitch ever? :biggums:

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 05:38 PM

Nothing I said was "trolling".

If you don't like the truth, scram kiddo. :confusedshrug:

Never even compared the two, if you were directing that post @ me...

Wasn't...just putting that out there.

LeBird

07-05-2016, 05:40 PM

This genius really thinks the 2010 Cavs were as good as 2016 OKC. :lol

You gotta love how some people expose themselves so easily.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:44 PM

I never directly compared the two. I only referenced KD and Bron joining their new teams, along w/ Bron's pre-decision supporting cast.

Its not "trolling" pointing out the fact LeBron quit verse Boston (most major media outlets called him out on it, including ESPN). Nor is it "trolling" suggesting that his teammates, pre-decision, weren't all that bad. Especially in the conference they competed in.

Had LeBron not quit versus Boston, I have zero doubts Cleveland would've made the finals against LA. That would be 2 finals appearances in 3 or 4 years? Dudes in here acting like he played with TMac's supporting cast in Orlando. :oldlol:

This genius really thinks the 2010 Cavs were as good as 2016 OKC. :lol

You gotta love how some people expose themselves so easily.

That all you got? Strange claims of shit I never uttered.

F*ck outta here, hoe. :oldlol:

LeBird

07-05-2016, 05:44 PM

this 'supporting cast build around his skillset' is super lame... just because he made it work with a few bum shooters... to put it very simple

I wonder how this great supporting cast did when LeBron left:rolleyes:

You see the supporting cast sucked ass on purpose and needed LeBron to do everything...tailor made for him. :lol

LeBird

07-05-2016, 05:47 PM

That all you got? Strange claims of shit I never uttered.

F*ck outta here, hoe. :oldlol:

Oh, no you just said leaving either was in the same ball park. You delusional dipshit. Without LeBron they were a 19 win team.

I've heard some stupid shit in my time, but this is up there.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:49 PM

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:52 PM

Oh, no you just said they were in the same ball park. You delusional dipshit. Without LeBron they were a 19 win team.

I've heard some stupid shit in my time, but this is up there.

You do realize that I was only talking about the teams they joined...right?

Honestly you've literally contributed nothing here, except make false claims and flaunt your poor comprehension skills. Good stuff.

PsychoBe

07-05-2016, 05:53 PM

didn't boobie gibson outplay bran in 07' by droppin' 38 points against detroit? :oldlol:

bran also blew a 2-1 lead against the celtics then choked away game 4 and he was no longer able to gain momentum

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 05:56 PM

But what you dont see, mighty one, is that CLE's team was really THAT BAD.... it was a shithouse... the whole time... Bron fooled you though...

Bron also had people believing for 2 days he'd win a title with Delly as 2nd option... thats his greatness.

They were bad relative to other "contenders" throughout history, but in that conference, at that time?

Good enough, imo...especially in 2010 where LeBron chose to call it quits. Not his teammates.

Anyway both players left for greener pastures. Durant chose to play with an already established team, whereas LeBron joined established superstars. Tomato; tuhmato.

tpols

07-05-2016, 05:57 PM

You do realize that I was only talking about the teams they joined...right?

Honestly you've literally contributed nothing here, except make false claims and flaunt your poor comprehension skills. Good stuff.

according to the 73 win argument, Bron hopped from a 61 win team, while Durant only hopped from a 55 win team. But funny how they'll want to add context then as far as player performance goes but disregard the warriors' players poor performances in the playoffs ..nowhere near 73 win level .. hypocrites bro, thats the bran fam. :lol

LeBird

07-05-2016, 05:57 PM

You do realize that I was only talking about the teams they joined...right?

You've literally contributed nothing here, except make false claims and flaunt your poor comprehension skills. Good stuff.

:lol you're my intellectual junior. If you want to be that specific be specific.

On the other hand it doesn't matter because even the above claim is stupid as shit.

Miami weren't contenders before LeBron went there. They ended up with 3 big players but nothing else. Experimental team with an untested coach.

GSW are back to back finalists and former champions. They already have a big 3 and are deeper than Miami ever were. Two time MVP now has another top 3 player. 73 win team, the GOAT regular season.

If you can't see the difference you're either stupid or wilfully blind.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 05:58 PM

They were bad relative to other "contenders" throughout history, but in that conference, at that time?

Meh.

Good enough...especially in 2010 where LeBron chose to call it quits. Not his teammates.

Even relative to Boston they were significantly less stacked.. and Bron is so good he called it quits, yet 2 of the 6 games in that series are better than anything you got from KD and Curry the entire past two postseasons, tbh... its just a much better level than anyone currently great, so comparing it with KD doesnt work.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 06:01 PM

according to the 73 win argument, Bron hopped from a 61 win team, while Durant only hopped from a 55 win team. But funny how they'll want to add context then as far as player performance goes but disregard the warriors' players poor performances in the playoffs ..nowhere near 73 win level .. hypocrites bro, thats the bran fam. :lol

you always use the number/health argument to the side you want it to be in... always having the cake and eating it too.

Dont see whats skewed about 73 wins, they just won 67 games before, and all three of their stars saw major progression? As a result, they played much better than in the playoffs the previous year...

youve already acknowledged it to be a case by case thing, but now you want to diminish the feat of them beating a 73 win team, because according to you, they didnt play at an arbitrary 73 win level?

LeBird

07-05-2016, 06:01 PM

Going to a better situation isn't what people are mad about. No one would have said anything if he went to the Spurs or something.

As aforesaid, Durant, an MVP candidate, could miss all of next year and GSW are still favorites. This is an unprecedented situation. People are watching this sport for competition. The backlash is because Durant basically killed it because he wants to chase rings.

It will take a miracle or LeBron going God-mode to beat this team if they're healthy.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 06:03 PM

NBAGOAT

07-05-2016, 06:05 PM

I guess a forgotten aspect of these kd/lebron comparisons is the teams is the other conference also matter. Maybe KD is actually more worried that OKC wouldn't be able to beat the Cavs than the Warriors. Lebron definitely could've been worried about the Lakers in the future them being the 2 time champs and not just the Celtics or Magic. It's hard seeing that Cavs team beating the Lakers even if Lebron made the Finals at the time. I think OKC would have a good chance at beating the Cavs with KD but maybe KD sees it differently. It's why I completely understand why Laker fans initially got salty but they really should've gotten over it after 2012 considering they weren't championship material those 2 years. The same would be true for Cavs fans now, if they don't make the Finals the next few years, they don't really have a reason to be salty anymore. Ofc Kobe/Lebron stans are a different story since some just want to see other guys fail and have agendas..

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 06:05 PM

Touche my friend.

When you realize you're talking with 2 hardcore fanatics (one clown is named "LeBird" :oldlol:) .......

You know there's not much room for logical debating.

I find my response to tpols post alot more logical, considering GSW is the defending champ, and just won 67 games, and visibly got better lol... no?

tpols

07-05-2016, 06:06 PM

you always use the number/health argument to the side you want it to be in... always having the cake and eating it too.

Dont see whats skewed about 73 wins, they just won 67 games before, and all three of their stars saw major progression? As a result, they played much better than in the playoffs the previous year...

youve already acknowledged it to be a case by case thing, but now you want to diminish the feat of them beating a 73 win team, because according to you, they didnt play at an arbitrary 73 win level?

what? i'm just saying the regular season win number is bs both ways .. just evaluate the talent in both cases.

Bron jumped from a worse team than the thunder to a slightly worse team than the warriors (due to depth) , but he did it in a worse conference. KD jumped from a better team than the Cavs to a better team than the Heat, but did so in a conference with some real contenders in it, not the joke we've seen the past 6 years from the East.. thats what it is and the situations are closer than everybody whose overreacting is making them out to be.

The cHeat predicted themselves to be a bill russell dynasty.. it can't anymore get more stacked than that relative to the competion :D

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 06:07 PM

Touche my friend.

When you realize you're talking with 2 hardcore fanatics (one clown is named "LeBird" :oldlol:) .......

You know there's not much room for logical debating.

Could you state your point/argument for me in response to this. I'm curious about this and I'm having trouble following the back and forth.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-05-2016, 06:08 PM

I find my response to tpols post alot more logical, considering GSW is the defending champ, and just won 67 games, and visibly got better lol... no?

Your lot thinks there's a difference between the two teams LeBron and KD joined, when in reality, both were/are gonna be favorites to win it all.

Miami wasn't established? You had prime D-Wade and LeBron...with Bosh. :roll:

And you have the nerve to call me out for "trolling"? Weak shit dude.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 06:08 PM

This whole 'not a 73 win team in the postseason' is a MAJOR slippery slope...

usually you use that, lets say, for Brons cavs, because theyre not a typical 66 win team, ANYWHERE.... its one man dragging mediocrity to surface historical greatness....

meanwhile OKC has had multiple 60 win seasons on their back and now fell 5 short and apparently its supposed to compare to a team making consecutive finals with consecutive 67+ win seasons, apparently not playing at that level in the playoffs....

Thats the team you were gonna get in the playoffs. And they won 73 win games. Period. No individual effort, it was a combined group effort...

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 06:10 PM

what? i'm just saying the regular season win number is bs both ways .. just evaluate the talent in both cases.

Bron jumped from a worse team than the thunder to a slightly worse team than the warriors (due to depth) , but he did it in a worse conference. KD jumped from a better team than the Cavs to a better team than the Heat, but did so in a conference with some real contenders in it, not the joke we've seen the past 6 years.. thats what it is and the situations are closer than everybody whose overreacting is making them out to be.

The cHeat predicted themselves to be a bill russell dynasty.. it can't anymore get more stacked than that relative to the competion :D

Slightly worse team?

Curry/Klay/Iggy/Green/Liv/Zaza/West

Wade/Bosh/Haslem/Chalmers/JJ/Bibby

That is not slightly worse. The Warriors are significantly the better roster.

NBAGOAT

07-05-2016, 06:11 PM

what? i'm just saying the regular season win number is bs both ways .. just evaluate the talent in both cases.

Bron jumped from a worse team than the thunder to a slightly worse team than the warriors (due to depth) , but he did it in a worse conference. KD jumped from a better team than the Cavs to a better team than the Heat, but did so in a conference with some real contenders in it, not the joke we've seen the past 6 years from the East.. thats what it is and the situations are closer than everybody whose overreacting is making them out to be.

The cHeat predicted themselves to be a bill russell dynasty.. it can't anymore get more stacked than that relative to the competion :D

tbf relative to competition isn't just relative to one conference but the whole league as I said above. Making the Finals is nice but winning is obviously the goal for superteams. So in 2010, Lebron had to worry about the Lakers at the time. Same for KD and the Cavs most likely. It could end up being way worse if the Warriors get 70+ wins and sweep the playoffs. They could also have huge chemistry issues/injuries and not even make the Finals. We'll just have to see how it plays out.

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 06:12 PM

The cHeat predicted themselves to be a bill russell dynasty.. it can't anymore get more stacked than that relative to the competion :D

for a year? It wasnt like that, thats the thing... you want your cake and eat it too with the injury argument.... the relative to conference thing is silly since they still had to meet a team from the West in the finals which they all but once were underdogs against, so luckily you said 'competition' this time, which just leaves you wrong, though.

Your lot thinks there's a difference between the two teams LeBron and KD joined, when in reality, both were/are gonna be favorites to win it all.

Miami wasn't established? You had prime D-Wade and LeBron...with Bosh. :roll:

Who said anything about established?

I agree....

In terms of morals, Brons decision was bad.. really bad. Cowardly. But in the end, for Bron, it was about playing with his draft buddy... and competition wise, he saw the potential of a super team WITH HIM, Durant is joing a team thats a super team WITHOUT HIM.....

But:

1) The talent didnt fit at all... Bron/Wade were a redundant duo
2) The stackedness lasted for about a year, until Wade declined....

are we really gonna disagree on the above?

ArbitraryWater

07-05-2016, 06:14 PM

Even in that one stacked year LeBron had...

The Heat had TWO starters (Bibby, Anthony) who scored under 4 ppg and shot under 38% for the playoffs. No team ever has made the finals with 2 players in the starting five under 4 ppg and under 38% shooting.

On top they had another 24 mpg key rotation player in Haslem, who was coming off a season-long injury, and was only at 5 ppg on 40% shooting, and 12 mpg Mike Miller, also coming off an injury, with 3 ppg on 34%.

So objectively, its NOT EVEN CLOSE.

Outside the Big 3 everyone was a net negative but apparently it can be compared to this Warriors team?

Absurd.

edit: guys, im out for the night

tpols

07-05-2016, 06:15 PM

Slightly worse team?

Curry/Klay/Iggy/Green/Liv/Zaza/West

Wade/Bosh/Haslem/Chalmers/JJ/Bibby

That is not slightly worse. The Warriors are significantly the better roster.

i dont know what degrees you want to put on it.. moderately worse? All I know is if these two teams matched up in the playoffs, the Heat would have the two best players on the floor. Warriors have a lot more all star depth, but competition evens it out.

to test my theory, i'll put avy bet with anybody that the Warriors lose more games throughout the West than the 2011 Heat lost throughout the East.. that's two games boys. Guarantee they drop more than that.

edit: sorry 3 games.. they will still drop more than that

NBAGOAT

07-05-2016, 06:19 PM

i dont know what degrees you want to put on it.. moderately worse? All I know is if these two teams matched up in the playoffs, the Heat would have the two best players on the floor. Warriors have a lot more all star depth, but competition evens it out.

to test my theory, i'll put avy bet with anybody that the Warriors lose more games throughout the West than the 2011 Heat lost throughout the East.. that's two games boys. Guarantee they drop more than that.

that's kind of bold considering the 4th seed in the West doesn't look great whoever it'll be. You're banking on one of three things happening. Warriors don't even get the 1st seed, the 4 seed(someone like Thunder Grizzlies Blazers etc) take a game off Warriors, or Spurs/Clippers give the Warriors a 7 game series.

tpols

07-05-2016, 06:22 PM

that's kind of bold considering the 4th seed in the West doesn't look great whoever it'll be. You're banking on one of three things happening. Warriors don't even get the 1st seed, the 4 seed(someone like Thunder Grizzlies Blazers etc) take a game off Warriors, or Spurs/Clippers give the Warriors a 7 game series.

the sixers took a game off the Heat .. you never know when you'll give up a game here and there. And I'm confident the Spurs can make it a 6 game series.

NBAGOAT

07-05-2016, 06:24 PM

the sixers took a game off the Heat .. you never know when you'll give up a game here and there. And I'm confident the Spurs can make it a 6 game series.

damn forgot about that and I think you overlooked it too. the Warriors would have to love 4 games through the West for you to win your bet, not 3.

tpols

07-05-2016, 06:26 PM

damn forgot about that and I think you overlooked it too. the Warriors would have to love 4 games through the West for you to win your bet, not 3.

yup.. > 3.

Hey Yo

07-05-2016, 06:28 PM

i dont know what degrees you want to put on it.. moderately worse? All I know is if these two teams matched up in the playoffs, the Heat would have the two best players on the floor. Warriors have a lot more all star depth, but competition evens it out.

to test my theory, i'll put avy bet with anybody that the Warriors lose more games throughout the West than the 2011 Heat lost throughout the East.. that's two games boys. Guarantee they drop more than that.

edit: sorry 3 games.. they will still drop more than that
Heat lost 4 games to East teams by the 16th game of the season.

Not sure where you're getting your info from cause I'm counting 14 losses

NBAGOAT

07-05-2016, 06:37 PM

Heat lost 4 games to East teams by the 16th game of the season.

Not sure where you're getting your info from cause I'm counting 14 losses

he meant playoffs :facepalm

SpaceJammeR

07-05-2016, 06:50 PM

lol at those guys saying its the same as lebron. if lebron was kevin durant right now, the world would be fuming. lebron will find a way to beat these soft bros.

DMAVS41

07-05-2016, 07:27 PM

i dont know what degrees you want to put on it.. moderately worse? All I know is if these two teams matched up in the playoffs, the Heat would have the two best players on the floor. Warriors have a lot more all star depth, but competition evens it out.

to test my theory, i'll put avy bet with anybody that the Warriors lose more games throughout the West than the 2011 Heat lost throughout the East.. that's two games boys. Guarantee they drop more than that.

edit: sorry 3 games.. they will still drop more than that

two best players? what?

we were comparing the teams Durant and Lebron joined...

Did I misunderstand you? I thought you said Lebron left his team to join a slightly worse team than the Warriors due to depth.

dankok8

07-05-2016, 09:03 PM

tamaraw08

07-05-2016, 09:18 PM

I'm really confused on why all these debate what team is better, Miami, GSW or the Spurs, are ALL great teams and Lebron, LMA and now Durant chose to join those teams!
There may be subtle differences but the concept of abandoning your former team and take a shortcut to win by joining a team with super talent is the SAME.
Yes, Miami hasn't proven yet they can win that time but there were like 5th best in defensive rating, you then add TWO UNSELFISH HOF'S, then add Shane Battier, Ray Allen etc, so ofcourse you get a contender.
SAS, 5 time champs, NONE of them retiring, plus a 3&D SG and finals MVP plus carefully handled by a legendary coach.
And then GSW, do I need to say more?

LeBird

07-06-2016, 01:46 AM

Your lot thinks there's a difference between the two teams LeBron and KD joined, when in reality, both were/are gonna be favorites to win it all.

Miami wasn't established? You had prime D-Wade and LeBron...with Bosh. :roll:

And you have the nerve to call me out for "trolling"? Weak shit dude.

Were Miami overwhelming favorites every year? No, some years they weren't even the favorites. Who has that screenshot of all the NBA experts predicting OKC? :lol

Meanwhile, it's debatable there has been a stronger team ever than the current GSW.

But guess what folks...it's the same "ballpark" :rolleyes:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 02:39 AM

Were Miami overwhelming favorites every year? No, some years they weren't even the favorites. Who has that screenshot of all the NBA experts predicting OKC? :lol

Meanwhile, it's debatable there has been a stronger team ever than the current GSW.

But guess what folks...it's the same "ballpark" :rolleyes:

Miami were "overwhelming favorites" the first season they got together, hence that post.

Cannot believe you're still on struggle street dude...wow. What's hilarious is that you're not trolling either. :oldlol:

LeBird

07-06-2016, 03:59 AM

Miami were "overwhelming favorites" the first season they got together, hence that post.

Cannot believe you're still on struggle street dude...wow. What's hilarious is that you're not trolling either. :oldlol:

No they weren't. They were never considered locked on guarantees. Conveniently, again, you miss the point of differentiation and degree. The most odds on bet was for the 2011 finals was to go to 7 games. :lol

If GSW still go and lose next year, the season after they'll still be favorites. That's just how far ahead they are. Heck, they lost this year and even without Durant were still considered the favorites for next year. If Miami didn't have LeBron, would they still be favorites? :rolleyes:

I just have to keep laughing at you. It's that retarded that I find myself randomly laughing throughout the day at the thought. How can someone be this stupid? You probably thought no one would notice either I bet. :lol SAS specifically made this video for dunces like yourself.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 04:12 AM

No they weren't. They were never considered locked on guarantees. Conveniently, again, you miss the point of differentiation and degree. The most odds on bet was for the 2011 finals was to go to 7 games. :lol

Yes they were.

They were favorites to win versus Dallas, and as soon as they merged together, threw a parade proclaiming MULTIPLE championships.

Do you even know what you're debating now? All I see from you are continuous replies where you just punch keys. :oldlol:

LeBird

07-06-2016, 04:12 AM

Last time I checked the Miami Heat before Lebron came didn't win a championship and then 73 games. They lost in the 1st round, gutted their whole roster to get Bron and Bosh (lost Beasley, Marion, Wright...), and totally retooled and so had no prior chemistry. Bron had to build with the team from scratch as opposed to coming into one.

Durant is joining a team that after the Game 7 Finals loss was pegged as the favorite to win the 2017 title... WITHOUT HIM.

Pressure really is high on Durant now. If he wins 2+ titles as the best player on the Warriors then his legacy will definitely get a boost and rightfully so. But he has to do that. If they win but he's underwhelming and/or overshadowed by Curry his legacy is no better. I agree with the Barkley/Malone/Robinson going to the Bulls analogy. It's pretty close.

Exactly.

LeBron could have joined half a dozen teams and made them heavy favorites to win in 2010. That's by virtue of his own strength. He could make the worst team in the NBA a contender. Therefore no matter where he goes he's making an impact. Ironically, he was already on the worst team in the league minus himself.

Durant is going to the already overwhelming favorites, minus him. With him? The expectations are that they have to guarantee titles like no other team in NBA history.

If others can't see the difference, they need to give up on life.

LeBird

07-06-2016, 04:16 AM

Yes they were.

They were favorites to win verse Dallas, and as soon as they got together, through a parade proclaiming multiple championships.

Do you even know what you're debating now? All I see from you are continuous replies where you just punch keys. Nothing remotely objective or logical.

No one is saying they weren't favorites.

Do you know what nuance means? A favorite in one year is not the same as a favorite in another year. The context of teams matter. The Bulls in the 90s may not have had the kind of line-up to compare to the Lakers or Celtics of the 80s...but for the 90s they were heavier favorites than either of those teams because of a relative lack of competition.

And now, the point is not saying that they are favorites...but that even without Durant they were overwhelming favorites. Now they are basically locked in guarantees. Anything short of a chip will be a disaster.

Durant willingly ****ed up any notion of competition in the league. LeBron and the Heat were never gonna **** up the league that bad. And no one expected it. And it never came to fruition either.

Using your retarded logic, anyone joining a contender and making them favorites is gonna compare to what Durant did. This is like saying Durant joining the Spurs or GSW makes no difference because they could be both considered favorites post-signing. There's a reason why people have problems with the latter and not the former. Unfortunately, logic evades you.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 04:23 AM

No one is saying they weren't favorites.

You just said they weren't a few posts up... :oldlol:

Like I said, you have zero clue what you're debating. Dumbass.

LeBird

07-06-2016, 04:36 AM

You just said they weren't a few posts up... :oldlol:

Like I said, you have zero clue what you're debating. Dumbass.

Nope, I said they were never locked on guarantees. See, you can't even read.

No they weren't. They were never considered locked on guarantees. Conveniently, again, you miss the point of differentiation and degree.

The point is not to say just because both were favorites that it is the same thing as you did:

Your lot thinks there's a difference between the two teams LeBron and KD joined, when in reality, both were/are gonna be favorites to win it all.

Miami wasn't established? You had prime D-Wade and LeBron...with Bosh. :roll:

And you have the nerve to call me out for "trolling"? Weak shit dude.

You make this too easy. :lol You actually think you're sly. You say they were both favorites and I differentiate to say that Miami were not overwhelming favorites. Then you say they were both overwhelming favorites, and my point was to illustrate that they weren't considered guarantees.

I could forgive you if you just made a mistake, but it's patently clear you're trying to save face. Which makes it funnier.

Quickening

07-06-2016, 04:46 AM

LeBird

07-06-2016, 04:57 AM

wtf are people even arguing about... yes there is a favourite every year in the NBA, there has to be. But in the last 10 years of the NBA there has never been a team who you thought was an absolute lock for the title, the closest team to that was last seasons GSW.

Durant joining gsw, would be similar to him joining Miami after the 2012 finals, except GSW are a better fit for each other, have more depth and are all at their peak

This is easily the best team ever assembled, and they are not going to get beat in a 7 games series by anyone unless they get significant injuries.

:applause:

ScalsFan21

07-06-2016, 05:01 AM

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 05:15 AM

Miami were "overwhelming favorites" the first season they got together, hence that post.

No they weren't. They were never considered locked on guarantees. Conveniently, again, you miss the point of differentiation and degree. The most odds on bet was for the 2011 finals was to go to 7 games. :lol

This is literally your response to my post, but go ahead and continue to embarrass yourself.

Again, they were definitely "overwhelming favorites". Meaning most people had them winning a title the moment of their inception. To suggest otherwise is straight revisionism.

LeBird

07-06-2016, 05:45 AM

This is literally your response to my post, but go ahead and continue to embarrass yourself.

Again, they were definitely "overwhelming favorites". Meaning most people had them winning a title the moment of their inception. To suggest otherwise is straight revisionism.

As I said:

You make this too easy. :lol You actually think you're sly. You say they were both favorites and I differentiate to say that Miami were not overwhelming favorites. Then you say they were both overwhelming favorites, and my point was to illustrate that they weren't considered guarantees.

You conveniently jumped from 'favorites' to 'overwhelming favorites' when my point was to differentiate. So once you said favorites I expounded and talked about overwhelming favorites and explained the differences. You then started using 'overwhelming favorites' to suggest they're the same thing. So it had to be further explained to your dumbass that what I am talking about is basically deadlock guarantees.

It's as easy as explained in the above. LeBron didn't join the team that was already favorites and make them overwhelming favorites, or guarantees. Durant did. If you can't understand that difference, then there's not much to do than ridicule and laugh at you for fun.

Quickening

07-06-2016, 05:47 AM

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 06:49 AM

As I said: You conveniently jumped from 'favorites' to 'overwhelming favorites' when my point was to differentiate. So once you said favorites I expounded and talked about overwhelming favorites and explained the differences. You then started using 'overwhelming favorites' to suggest they're the same thing. So it had to be further explained to your dumbass that what I am talking about is basically deadlock guarantees.

Favorites, "overwhelming favorites", it really doesn't matter. AGAIN, most had Miami winning a title going into the 2010-2011 season.

Do LeBron fans seriously deny this? :oldlol:

It's as easy as explained in the above. LeBron didn't join the team that was already favorites and make them overwhelming favorites, or guarantees.

Right. Instead guy paired up w/ the best SG and, at the time, arguably the best PF.

Relative to both seasons they were unprecedented moves. Who gives a shit about the semantics. Its a goofy way to get your point across...not that you ever had one.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 10:08 AM

Ben Simmons

07-06-2016, 10:12 AM

Durant joined a team that could win a championship without him. And that's literally what Draymond told him.

At least Lebron joined a team where he had to play.

tpols

07-06-2016, 10:28 AM

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 10:32 AM

the only way to test the theory of which collusion produced the more stacked team relative to competition is to compare how many playoff games they lose through their respective conferences.. and then compare Finals opponent. 2017 West will be > 2011 East, and the Cavs > 2011 Mavs. Golden State is more stacked, but they will face a signifigantly harder road in all likelihood. So relative to the competition they may be the same or even less. we'll see.

Maybe....or maybe Durant could pull a Lebron in 11 and choke and they lose...and that wouldn't say anything about how stacked they are.

I agree the Warriors will face better competition...

But, the two teams without Durant/Lebron...GSW is significantly better.

tamaraw08

07-06-2016, 10:33 AM

Exactly.

LeBron could have joined half a dozen teams and made them heavy favorites to win in 2010. That's by virtue of his own strength. He could make the worst team in the NBA a contender. Therefore no matter where he goes he's making an impact. Ironically, he was already on the worst team in the league minus himself.

Durant is going to the already overwhelming favorites, minus him. With him? The expectations are that they have to guarantee titles like no other team in NBA history.

If others can't see the difference, they need to give up on life.

Wow, from half a dozen which is already a stretched cuz there were very FEW teams that have 2 hall of famers, now then you change your tune and say he call make the WORST team a contender. :eek:

miggyme1

07-06-2016, 10:39 AM

Durant joined a team that could win a championship without him. And that's literally what Draymond told him.

At least Lebron joined a team where he had to play.

It kills me how people think its so easy to win a championship. Heat breezed through the playoffs in 2011 just to lose in the finals in convincing fashion to the mavs. They got embarrassed..i don't care what anybody say...the heat got embarrassed in 2011.

Fast forward to the nba finals we just witnessed.....the greatest regular season team in nba history just gave up a 3-1 finals lead without Durant........do you think they would with him??? People act like the warriors just won the ship and Durant joined. Second......why would Durant stay in okc when he knows westbrook isn't gonna stay past this season??

This warriors team IMO will still be beatable...again they added a great player in Durant but its still only one ball.....the next season for the warriors might be their toughest season yet.....people are gonna be gunning for them every game....teams like the lakers/sixers/suns/kings will be playing with 1000 percent effort to say they beat this team. Im not expecting the warriors to win more than 60 games next year. Its gonna be a very taxing season.

And they still have to come out of the west. A healthy clippers team (a team they didn't face in the playoffs since 2014 and was the least team to beat them in the west by the way) can definitely challenge them. Spurs is a no brainer and im really liking what I see with the mavs......if barnes and bogut can bring that GSW attitude and game to the mavs plus they know the weaknesses of every player from GSW....the mavs have a great shot to upset the warriors....I expect the timberwolves to make the postseason and if the warriors meet them in the playoffs.....that wont be a cakewalk for the warriors or any top team.

Ben Simmons

07-06-2016, 10:41 AM

It kills me how people think its so easy to win a championship. Heat breezed through the playoffs in 2011 just to lose in the finals in convincing fashion to the mavs. They got embarrassed..i don't care what anybody say...the heat got embarrassed in 2011.

Fast forward to the nba finals we just witnessed.....the greatest regular season team in nba history just gave up a 3-1 finals lead without Durant........do you think they would with him??? People act like the warriors just won the ship and Durant joined. Second......why would Durant stay in okc when he knows westbrook isn't gonna stay past this season??

This warriors team IMO will still be beatable...again they added a great player in Durant but its still only one ball.....the next season for the warriors might be their toughest season yet.....people are gonna be gunning for them every game....teams like the lakers/sixers/suns/kings will be playing with 1000 percent effort to say they beat this team. Im not expecting the warriors to win more than 60 games next year. Its gonna be a very taxing season.

And they still have to come out of the west. A healthy clippers team (a team they didn't face in the playoffs since 2014 and was the least team to beat them in the west by the way) can definitely challenge them. Spurs is a no brainer and im really liking what I see with the mavs......if barnes and bogut can bring that GSW attitude and game to the mavs plus they know the weaknesses of every player from GSW....the mavs have a great shot to upset the warriors....I expect the timberwolves to make the postseason and if the warriors meet them in the playoffs.....that wont be a cakewalk for the warriors or any top team.

THe Warriors pitch to Durant was that they would win without him so he might as well join them.

The Warriors won 73 games. Yeah they choked, but that's what happened. A choke job. They arent gonna choke every year.

Ben Simmons

07-06-2016, 10:43 AM

the only way to test the theory of which collusion produced the more stacked team relative to competition is to compare how many playoff games they lose through their respective conferences.. and then compare Finals opponent. 2017 West will be > 2011 East, and the Cavs > 2011 Mavs. Golden State is more stacked, but they will face a signifigantly harder road in all likelihood. So relative to the competition they may be the same or even less. we'll see.
This is stupid. How many playoff games they lose doesnt matter. Plenty of teams like the 08 Celtics got taken to 7 multiple times to from the East only to beat the Lakers in 6 and kill them by like 40?

Does that mean the Hawks and Cavs those years were better than the Lakers?
East > West. Of course not. It wouldnt match your agenda

tpols

07-06-2016, 11:08 AM

This is stupid. How many playoff games they lose doesnt matter. Plenty of teams like the 08 Celtics got taken to 7 multiple times to from the East only to beat the Lakers in 6 and kill them by like 40?

Does that mean the Hawks and Cavs those years were better than the Lakers?
East > West. Of course not. It wouldnt match your agenda

propose a different method then benjamin, and use your brain.. you pointed out the outlier.. but generally speaking teams will drop more games if they face better competition. and the more stacked they are relative to their competition the more likely they will stomp teams out (ala 2011 Heat winning all series in 5 games or less in east) .. it's just common sense.

what else do we have to test their roads through the playoffs though? you want to just use a qualitative assessment comparing teams like the spurs, cavs, mavs, bulls?

Whats your method for comparing playoff competition? im open to others..

miggyme1

07-06-2016, 11:12 AM

THe Warriors pitch to Durant was that they would win without him so he might as well join them.

The Warriors won 73 games. Yeah they choked, but that's what happened. A choke job. They arent gonna choke every year.

yes it was but that's all speculation. the warriors aren't GOD....they don't know what the future holds. I expected them to compete for rings the next few years but nobody knows who will win. I give the warriors credit it was a easy sell on their part and a hard buy for anyone to refuse. This all came down to Durant not knowing if westbrook would stay in okc past this season and im 100 percent certain of that. The thunder came 48 mins away from beating 2 of the greatest teams ever in the playoffs back to back. 55 win thunder team.....im just saying

Ben Simmons

07-06-2016, 11:13 AM

propose a different method then benjamin, and use your brain.. you pointed out the outlier.. but generally speaking teams will drop more games if they face better competition. it's just common sense.

what else do we have to test their roads through the playoffs though? you want to just use a qualitative assessment comparing teams like the spurs, cavs, mavs, bulls?
Whats your method for comparing playoff competition?
So the 16-1 Lakers faced no competition what ever. That was the most stacked team ever relative to competition using your logic.

tpols

07-06-2016, 11:24 AM

So the 16-1 Lakers faced no competition what ever. That was the most stacked team ever relative to competition using your logic.

the Lakers are actually a perfect case study for this.. i'm glad you brought it up.

There wasnt a huge difference in competition from 2000 to 2001 for los angeles .. the main difference was that Kobe made a leap as a player, after all he had more win shares than peak Shaq, which means that team was basically like two peak shaq forces coming at every team. Stacked relative to the competition? Hell yes.. thats why the 2001 Lakers are considered one of the greatest teams ever.

So lets see how dominant this Golden State team is before we say theyre more stacked then teams like that, or the Heat when they first joined up who ran through their conference with ease.

Ben Simmons

07-06-2016, 11:27 AM

the Lakers are actually a perfect case study for this.. i'm glad you brought it up.

There wasnt a huge difference in competition from 2000 to 2001 for los angeles .. the main difference was that Kobe made a leap as a player, after all he had more win shares than peak Shaq, which means that team was basically like two peak shaq forces coming at every team. Stacked relative to the competition? Hell yes.. thats why the 2001 Lakers are considered one of the greatest teams ever.

So lets see how dominant this Golden State team is before we say theyre more stacked then teams like that, or the Heat when they first joined up who ran through their conference with ease.
Yes, and the fact that the 76ers won a game suggest East > West that year as well. It's ridiculous.

We obviously wont know how stacked the Warriors are till they play. Thats every team, not just superteams. But it sure as hell cant be simply quantified based on playoff wins.

tpols

07-06-2016, 11:32 AM

Yes, and the fact that the 76ers won a game suggest East > West that year as well.

propose a different method then, benny. DMAVs is pretty nuetral and he agrees the warriors will face a harder road too.. its kind of common sense at this point.

bottom line, if the warriors are dropping a bunch of games and being pushed to 6-7 game series.. then all of this will be overreaction from you guys..

.. and all the bron fam thats been peddling this team as way more colluded and stacked compared to the big 3 Heat will be wrong because your premise all along was that the warriors would make things more uncompetitive than the Heat did. Well if they're being pushed into longer more competitive series than the Heat were that sentiment kinda blows up in you face right? right..

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 12:29 PM

Going into the 2011 season...odds to win the title...roughly;

Heat +120
Lakers +150

http://www.thespread.com/nba-articles/102610-updated-2011-nba-finals-odds-miami-heat-favored-by-oddsmakers

Depending on where you looked...something around this...

Going into this upcoming season...odds to win the title roughly;

Warriors -120
Cavs +350

I thought you said you weren't comparing the two teams?

And that is just the odds...The team Durant is joining is significantly better than the team Lebron joined. Are you denying this?

The bold? Obviously not.

The Lakers came off b2b championships, so naturally oddsmakers, betting men, were gonna roll with them.

I wasn't comparing the two teams directly. Only that LeBron joined a squad who people initially thought would be favorites, kinda like the Warriors with Durant this upcoming season. Most fans, media outlets, and even the Heat players themselves swore they would win a title off the bat (and subsequent chips afterward).

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 12:36 PM

FWIW...Vegas had Miami, before the season started, favorites as well.

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/08/lebron-james-decision/

Quickening

07-06-2016, 12:47 PM

The bold? Obviously not.

The Lakers came off b2b championships, so naturally oddsmakers, betting men, were gonna roll with them.

I wasn't comparing the two teams directly. Only that LeBron joined a squad who people initially thought would be favorites, kinda like the Warriors with Durant this upcoming season. Most fans, media outlets, and even the Heat players themselves swore they would win a title off the bat (and subsequent chips afterward).
Obviously you're not a betting man because the odds you quoted show that miami were slight favourites about the Lakers yiu dumb fck. Now leave this thread and never come back :lol

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 12:50 PM

I never said odds makers, specifically, had them as "overwhelming favorites".

Too much derp in one thread :oldlol:

Hey Yo

07-06-2016, 12:52 PM

propose a different method then, benny. DMAVs is pretty nuetral and he agrees the warriors will face a harder road too.. its kind of common sense at this point.

bottom line, if the warriors are dropping a bunch of games and being pushed to 6-7 game series.. then all of this will be overreaction from you guys..

.. and all the bron fam thats been peddling this team as way more colluded and stacked compared to the big 3 Heat will be wrong because your premise all along was that the warriors would make things more uncompetitive than the Heat did. Well if they're being pushed into longer more competitive series than the Heat were that sentiment kinda blows up in you face right? right..
Curry
Thompson
KBandwagon
Drayfag
Zaza

>>>>>>>>>>>

Bibby
Wade
LeBron
Bosh
Joel Anthony

Quickening

07-06-2016, 01:19 PM

I never said odds makers, specifically, had them as "overwhelming favorites".

Too much derp in one thread :oldlol:

You quoted a guy who had odds which shown Miami was the favourite, and you replied saying "naturally oddmakers will go with lakers".

I am done reading your posts, too difficult when english obviously isn't your first language.

LeBird

07-06-2016, 02:16 PM

Favorites, "overwhelming favorites", it really doesn't matter. AGAIN, most had Miami winning a title going into the 2010-2011 season.

Do LeBron fans seriously deny this? :oldlol:

Of course it matters you idiot, that's the whole point, difference of a huge degree.

Right. Instead guy paired up w/ the best SG and, at the time, arguably the best PF.

Relative to both seasons they were unprecedented moves. Who gives a shit about the semantics. Its a goofy way to get your point across...not that you ever had one.

Repeating the same bullshit isn't gonna make it make sense. :lol

LeBird

07-06-2016, 02:19 PM

Wow, from half a dozen which is already a stretched cuz there were very FEW teams that have 2 hall of famers, now then you change your tune and say he call make the WORST team a contender. :eek:

I said he'd make half a dozen teams heavy favorites.
I said he'd make any other team contenders.

A favorite is a different distinction than being a contender. It just means you have a shot, not that you're the most likely to win.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 02:37 PM

You quoted a guy who had odds which shown Miami was the favourite, and you replied saying "naturally oddmakers will go with lakers".

I am done reading your posts, too difficult when english obviously isn't your first language.

I never claimed ALL oddsmakers had them as overwhelming favorites. Only that MOST people did. Hell, even a bulk of vegas did as I just linked.

F*cking brickhead :oldlol:

LeBird

07-06-2016, 02:46 PM

You're conflating the two when I originally mentioned BOTH were simply favorites. Relative to season, and competition, they were both HEAVY favorites.

Like I said, playing semantics and arguing minor differences, is basically a life-line for any point you thought you originally had. Desperate muthafuka. :oldlol:

Whatever helps you sleep at night. You're getting shat on by multiple people for not knowing what you're talking about. Get a clue son.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 02:52 PM

Whatever helps you sleep at night. You're getting shat on by multiple people for not knowing what you're talking about. Get a clue son.

Hit a nerve with that post. :oldlol: Kinda pathetic that somebody literally has to delude them self for retorts.

Fall on that sword, nutjob...

LeBird

07-06-2016, 02:53 PM

Hit a nerve with that post. :oldlol: Kinda pathetic that somebody literally has to delude themselves just to have something to retort.

Buncha zealots in here.

In shambles :lol trying so hard to get the last word.

There's only so many times I'm gonna break it down for you buddy. I get it, you're saving face and just repeating the same thing as if it still holds up. Good on you pumpkin, you stay deluded...don't let the mean boys on the Internet get at you.

Going to Heat in 2010 is the same as going to OKC in 2016...whew...still laughing at that one https://forum.sectioneighty.com/data/emoticons/0/aa8da4e952a8fe52f3668350fba1e3e4.png

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 03:00 PM

In shambles :lol trying so hard to get the last word.

There's only so many times I'm gonna break it down for you buddy. I get it, you're saving face and just repeating the same thing as if it still holds up. Good on you pumpkin, you stay deluded...don't let the mean boys on the Internet get at you.

Going to Heat in 2010 is the same as going to OKC in 2016...whew...still laughing at that one https://forum.sectioneighty.com/data/emoticons/0/aa8da4e952a8fe52f3668350fba1e3e4.png

Bringing that up exposes your agenda here. Knew your bitch ass was a troll. Ha.

Funny thing is you changed your tune at least a dozen times here, and finally a poster not involved in the debate called you out.

Overwhelming, underwhelming, in-between, or just favorites to win?!?!?!? Clown :oldlol:

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 03:12 PM

The bold? Obviously not.

The Lakers came off b2b championships, so naturally oddsmakers, betting men, were gonna roll with them.

I wasn't comparing the two teams directly. Only that LeBron joined a squad who people initially thought would be favorites, kinda like the Warriors with Durant this upcoming season. Most fans, media outlets, and even the Heat players themselves swore they would win a title off the bat (and subsequent chips afterward).

Of course they were favorites...both teams will be favorites.

But this Durant on the Warriors thing from the team in place he's joining to the the taylor made fit...is on a different level.

Just2McFly

07-06-2016, 03:21 PM

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 03:47 PM

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 03:49 PM

And another thing, 2011 east was better than 2017 west.
Bulls and Celtics were legit contenders in 2011.
This year, only Spurs are contenders in west.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 03:50 PM

And another thing, 2011 east was better than 2017 west.
Bulls and Celtics were legit contenders in 2011.
This year, only Spurs are contenders in west.

Not sure if that is fair.

The 11 Clippers if healthy will be about as good as the 11 Celtics imo.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 03:54 PM

Not sure if that is fair.

The 11 Clippers if healthy will be about as good as the 11 Celtics imo.

when lebron joined heat, Celtics were considered legit title contenders.
They just came off a finals where they lost a close game 7 without their starting center.
That's a fact.
Nobody considers Clippers as contenders.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 03:57 PM

when lebron joined heat, Celtics were considered legit title contenders.
They just came off a finals where they lost a close game 7 without their starting center.
That's a fact.
Nobody considers Clippers as contenders.

Could you tell me why the 11 Celtics would be better than a healthy Clippers team this year?

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 04:00 PM

Could you tell me why the 11 Celtics would be better than a healthy Clippers team this year?

In 2011, Cetlics just were coming off a 7 games finals.
Clippers have yet to make the conference finals.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 04:04 PM

In 2011, Cetlics just were coming off a 7 games finals.
Clippers have yet to make the conference finals.

That isn't a reason.

Not to mention the Celtics played in the East.

The Clippers have proven themselves to be roughly a 55 or so win team...and would have the best player out of the two teams in CP3.

I'm not seeing any reasons why the 11 Celtics should be thought of as a better team.

Also, they didn't have that center you speak of that got injured in 2011. He was traded.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 04:07 PM

That isn't a reason.

Not to mention the Celtics played in the East.

The Clippers have proven themselves to be roughly a 55 or so win team...and would have the best player out of the two teams in CP3.

I'm not seeing any reasons why the 11 Celtics should be thought of as a better team.

Also, they didn't have that center you speak of that got injured in 2011. He was traded.

I'm talking going into 2011 season.
Going into 2011 season, Celtics were considered legit contenders. Now going into 2017, nobody considers Clippers as contenders.
Perkins was traded in the offseason. He got traded at the trade deadline.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 04:34 PM

I'm talking going into 2011 season.
Going into 2011 season, Celtics were considered legit contenders. Now going into 2017, nobody considers Clippers as contenders.
Perkins was traded in the offseason. He got traded at the trade deadline.

Who cares about the perception though? Your argument is that the Celtics were legit contenders in 11...not that they were perceived as such.

And I'm struggling to grasp why the 11 Celtics were more of a threat to the Heat than a healthy 17 Clippers would be to the Warriors.

The Celtics were coached by Doc Rivers.
They were a mid 50's win type team that was elite on defense an around average on offense.
They lost in 5 to the Heat in the 2nd round.

The Clippers are coached by Doc Rivers.
They are likely to be a mid 50's win type team that will be elite on offense and around average (perhaps better than average) on defense.
They would be expected to lose in 5 to the Warriors in the 2nd round.

What actually separates the two teams in your opinion? CP3 is the clear cut best player imo. Again...don't tell me about perception...perception is meaningless when your claim was that the 11 Celtics were better...not that they were perceived to be better.

See below;

And another thing, 2011 east was better than 2017 west.
Bulls and Celtics were legit contenders in 2011.
This year, only Spurs are contenders in west.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 04:41 PM

LMAO you guys kill me, just to prove a point about Lebron mans are gonna pretend that Wade was the clear cut best SG in the league in 09? The same year that we had a thread here and it was like a three hundred page thread filled with arguments for both sides?

Stop this smh.

This dude lol

Okay....arguably the best SG. Bosh was ALSO arguably the best PF.

You gonna pretend Wade wasn't getting BEST player talks that year? Or that after his series against Boston, ole boy didn't have an argument > Kobe? :oldlol:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 04:56 PM

Of course they were favorites...both teams will be favorites.

But this Durant on the Warriors thing from the team in place he's joining to the the taylor made fit...is on a different level.

And that's really all I was saying from jump street. Good to see some rational posters around...

I just don't think the differences are as vast some claim them to be. LeBron winning titles basically changed everyone's perception at the time. Its absurd.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 05:03 PM

And that's really all I was saying from jump street. Good to see some rational posters around...

I just don't think the differences are as vast some claim them to be. LeBron winning titles basically changed everyone's perception at the time. Its absurd.

I do think there is a pretty big difference in team strength though.

You also have to understand how Lebron won his titles. Bosh was injured for much of that Celtics series in 12...and Wade wasn't his same elite self like he had been previously.

In 13...Wade/Bosh were nothing more than good role players, if that at times, en route to the title.

So if the same thing happens to the Warriors and Durant leads them like Lebron did...he'll get a benefit.

However, you have to at least be able to understand that if the Heat had beaten the Mavs in 11 with Lebron playing like ass...that title wouldn't hold as much weight as the 12/13 titles he did win...and not even close to the 16 title.

That is the part you are missing...it was how Lebron won. It won't be the same if Durant isn't the man and is just another cog in a well oiled machine.

LeBird

07-06-2016, 05:34 PM

And that's really all I was saying from jump street. Good to see some rational posters around...

I just don't think the differences are as vast some claim them to be. LeBron winning titles basically changed everyone's perception at the time. Its absurd.

Look at this dude clinging for straws and friends. :lol

DMAVS is disagreeing with you on the exact same thing I am. Arguing both were favorites is fine no one cares about that. What people have been discussing about the trade is that it is an order of magnitude different because of the circumstances of how and where they are going.

You're the only delusional person here trying to argue that it is comparable and in the same ballpark when no one agrees. You even think it has to do with some conspiracy of a change of narrative. Hold your L and hush up already, you've embarrassed yourself enough.

Young X

07-06-2016, 05:37 PM

Who cares about the perception though? Your argument is that the Celtics were legit contenders in 11...not that they were perceived as such.

And I'm struggling to grasp why the 11 Celtics were more of a threat to the Heat than a healthy 17 Clippers would be to the Warriors.

The Celtics were coached by Doc Rivers.
They were a mid 50's win type team that was elite on defense an around average on offense.
They lost in 5 to the Heat in the 2nd round.

The Clippers are coached by Doc Rivers.
They are likely to be a mid 50's win type team that will be elite on offense and around average (perhaps better than average) on defense.
They would be expected to lose in 5 to the Warriors in the 2nd round.

What actually separates the two teams in your opinion? CP3 is the clear cut best player imo. Again...don't tell me about perception...perception is meaningless when your claim was that the 11 Celtics were better...not that they were perceived to be better.

See below;Nobody would've been surprised had the Celtics gone on to beat Miami and win the title. I actually thought they would win the championship that year.

If the Clippers were to win a championship, everybody would be surprised. They were never expected to even get to the finals.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 05:40 PM

Nobody would've been surprised had the Celtics gone on to beat Miami and win the title. I actually thought they would win the championship that year.

If the Clippers were to win a championship, everybody would be surprised. They were never expected to even get to the finals.

So you thought a team that was 18th in offense without an elite superstar player was going to beat prime Wade/Lebron/Bosh?

Ok...but again...this isn't about perception. It is about what was realistic. And if those 11 Celtics had a chance to beat them and win that year...then a healthy Clippers team absolutely would have that same chance.

Also, it is a false equivalence...everyone agrees these Warriors are way better than those Heat.

This is about comparing the 11 Celtics to a healthy 17 Clippers team...and there is just nothing to separate those two teams as much as you or others are saying. Only difference that I can see is that the Clippers have by far the best player in CP3.

Kawhi

07-06-2016, 05:41 PM

Shit is real when Stephen A is doing a video from his home. :oldlol:

Young X

07-06-2016, 05:45 PM

So you thought a team that was 18th in offense without an elite superstar player was going to beat prime Wade/Lebron/Bosh?

Ok...They were one of the best defenses in the modern era.

And they might not have had an elite superstar, but they had 4 star players playing at a high level.

And they also beat Miami in all 3 of the regular season matchups. The narrative at that point was they had James and Wade's number.

Also the series was closer than it seems. Miami barely won in OT in game 4 I think to go up 3-1.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 05:48 PM

They were one of the best defenses in the modern era.

And they might not have had an elite offensive talent, but they had 4 star players playing at a high level.

And they also beat Miami in all 3 of the regular season matchups. The narrative at that point was they had James and Wade's number.

Also the series was closer than it seems. Miami barely won in OT in game 4 I think to go up 3-1.

Again...I'm not talking about perception. Looking back we all had questions about the Heat and the Celtics were more proven. That isn't the argument. The argument is the 11 Celtics vs a healthy 17 Clippers team.

So, just to get this straight...you think the 11 Celtics were a significantly better team than what a healthy 17 Clippers team would be?

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 05:49 PM

Favorites, "overwhelming favorites", it really doesn't matter.

why the fck wouldnt it matter?

RIGHT before the series, SI and other media outlets had the Celtics and Bulls over the Heat :oldlol:

Here's why: Outside their big 3, not ONE player who wasnt a net negative... lol.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 05:52 PM

Who cares about the perception though? Your argument is that the Celtics were legit contenders in 11...not that they were perceived as such.

And I'm struggling to grasp why the 11 Celtics were more of a threat to the Heat than a healthy 17 Clippers would be to the Warriors.

The Celtics were coached by Doc Rivers.
They were a mid 50's win type team that was elite on defense an around average on offense.
They lost in 5 to the Heat in the 2nd round.

The Clippers are coached by Doc Rivers.
They are likely to be a mid 50's win type team that will be elite on offense and around average (perhaps better than average) on defense.
They would be expected to lose in 5 to the Warriors in the 2nd round.

What actually separates the two teams in your opinion? CP3 is the clear cut best player imo. Again...don't tell me about perception...perception is meaningless when your claim was that the 11 Celtics were better...not that they were perceived to be better.

See below;

They were contenders and better than Clippers. Their regular season record doesn't mean anything.
They were like 4th seed in east (50 wins) in 2010 and still made the finals and almost won.
Both Clippers and Celtics were mid 50 wins teams, but the difference is that Clippers choke in the playoffs ( never made WCF) and Celtics step up their game in the playoffs.

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 05:53 PM

I totally agree with this.

But I'm not NOR never talked about the '12 '13 titles. This was strictly both guys going to said teams, and the perception held.

Because that asswipe wants to debate just how much of a difference it was, when, relative to both seasons, both were considered heavy favorites.

Debating the former is just a waste of time.

Oh my god kuniva....

Warriors are FAR bigger favorites, its not even close.... :wtf:

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 05:54 PM

double post

I do think there is a pretty big difference in team strength though.

You also have to understand how Lebron won his titles. Bosh was injured for much of that Celtics series in 12...and Wade wasn't his same elite self like he had been previously.

In 13...Wade/Bosh were nothing more than good role players, if that at times, en route to the title.

So if the same thing happens to the Warriors and Durant leads them like Lebron did...he'll get a benefit.

However, you have to at least be able to understand that if the Heat had beaten the Mavs in 11 with Lebron playing like ass...that title wouldn't hold as much weight as the 12/13 titles he did win...and not even close to the 16 title.

That is the part you are missing...it was how Lebron won. It won't be the same if Durant isn't the man and is just another cog in a well oiled machine.

I totally agree...

But I'm not talking about the 2012 and 2013 titles. This was only about both players joining said teams, and the perception held.

why the fck wouldnt it matter?

RIGHT before the series, SI and other media outlets had the Celtics and Bulls over the Heat :oldlol:

Here's why: Outside their big 3, not ONE player who wasnt a net negative... lol.

Because that asswipe wants to debate minute differences when, relative to both seasons, both were considered heavy favorites.

Debating the former is just a waste of time.

NBAGOAT

07-06-2016, 05:54 PM

I would say the Heat were obvious favorites to come out of the East perception wise. However, plenty of people still thought the Lakers had a great chance. People are still giving the Cavs a chance now but it's small considering how the Warriors were favored even before they got Durant.

Young X

07-06-2016, 05:55 PM

Again...I'm not talking about perception. Looking back we all had questions about the Heat and the Celtics were more proven. That isn't the argument. The argument is the 11 Celtics vs a healthy 17 Clippers team.

So, just to get this straight...you think the 11 Celtics were a significantly better team than what a healthy 17 Clippers team would be?A little better but not significantly. More suited to win a championship because of defense and basketball IQ.

But there's more to a team being contenders than just how good they are. I don't think many people would've blinked an eye if the Celtics had won a championship that year.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 05:56 PM

Oh my god kuniva....

Warriors are FAR bigger favorites, its not even close.... :wtf:

They are bigger favorites. I don't disagree.

Miami were huge favorites relative to the 2011 season, though. Taking into account competition and whatnot it narrows the gap a bit.

Not very difficult to understand dude...

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 05:58 PM

They were contenders and better than Clippers. Their regular season record doesn't mean anything.
They were like 4th seed in east (50 wins) in 2010 and still made the finals and almost won.
Both Clippers and Celtics were mid 50 wins teams, but the difference is that Clippers choke in the playoffs ( never made WCF) and Celtics step up their game in the playoffs.

I was just describing what type of teams the two were. I'm not seeing anything said as to why those 11 Celtics should be thought of as a better team than a healthy Clippers team.

I'm just seeing perception based arguments and artificial points for the Celtics "stepping it up"...but they didn't. They lost in 5 and didn't really challenge the Heat in that series.

Which is exactly what would be expected if the Clippers faced the Warriors. A 5 game series in which the Clippers don't really push them.

I'm just not seeing any good reasons to think the Heat deserve extra points in this hypothetical for beating that Celtics team.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 05:59 PM

A little better but not significantly. More suited to win a championship because of defense and basketball IQ.

But there's more to a team being contenders than just how good they are. I don't think many people would've blinked an eye if the Celtics had won a championship that year.

That has more to do with perception and the unproven nature of the Heat than anything else though....not with how good they actually were.

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:01 PM

They are bigger favorites. I don't disagree.

Miami were huge favorites relative to the 2011 season, though. Taking into account competition and whatnot it narrows the gap a bit.

Not very difficult to understand dude...

Dude, they were NOT huge favorites, in 2011... that already took into account the league at the time... no need for you to go 'relative to the season', youre not appropriately using it right now :lol

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:02 PM

That has more to do with perception and the unproven nature of the Heat than anything else though....not with how good they actually were.

unproven nature has to do with how good you are though

if the C's had won, nobody would have been surprised.

NBAGOAT

07-06-2016, 06:03 PM

They are bigger favorites. I don't disagree.

Miami were huge favorites relative to the 2011 season, though. Taking into account competition and whatnot it narrows the gap a bit.

Not very difficult to understand dude...

I think you might be overlooking the Lakers from back then. Not sure how legit this site is and Vegas odds aren't everything but are pretty good at rating how great teams are. http://www.thespread.com/nba-articles/102610-updated-2011-nba-finals-odds-miami-heat-favored-by-oddsmakers

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:05 PM

unproven nature has to do with how good you are though

if the C's had won, nobody would have been surprised.

No it doesn't. Being unproven...makes you unproven. The very nature of that word is that you don't know how good a team is when push comes to shove. Nobody would have been surprised if the 08 Celtics lost in the finals. What does that matter for how good they actually were?

Nobody being surprised is totally a perception based argument.

Again though...this is about directly comparing the 11 Celtics to the 17 Clippers.

I could flip this argument and just say "nobody would be surprised if a CP3 led healthy Clippers team beat the 11 Celtics"...

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:08 PM

I was just describing what type of teams the two were. I'm not seeing anything said as to why those 11 Celtics should be thought of as a better team than a healthy Clippers team.

I'm just seeing perception based arguments and artificial points for the Celtics "stepping it up"...but they didn't. They lost in 5 and didn't really challenge the Heat in that series.

Which is exactly what would be expected if the Clippers faced the Warriors. A 5 game series in which the Clippers don't really push them.

I'm just not seeing any good reasons to think the Heat deserve extra points in this hypothetical for beating that Celtics team.

Artificial points? I made an argument and backed it up with facts. It's a truth that Celtics always stepped up their game in the playoffs. The Celtics had a bunch of players who were more clutch and more accomplished than the Clippers guys.
Your only point is that Clippers had the best player. So? Didn't they have the best player against Rockets in the 2nd round? How did that work out for them?

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 06:09 PM

Dude, they were NOT huge favorites, in 2011... that already took into account the league at the time... no need for you to go 'relative to the season', youre not appropriately using it right now :lol

They were though.

I already posted a link showing Vegas painting LA as title favorites, and as soon Miami combined their talents, they immediately became 7 to 1 favorites.

ESPN, other various media outlets, and the players themselves thought they had surefire chips.

Cut the bullshit...

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:12 PM

Artificial points? I made an argument and backed it up with facts. It's a truth that Celtics always stepped up their game in the playoffs. The Celtics had a bunch of players who were more clutch and more accomplished than the Clippers guys.
Your only point is that Clippers had the best player. So? Didn't they have the best player against Rockets in the 2nd round? How did that work out for them?

They always stepped it up? They were in the East playing weaker competition. They took back to back 7 game series to beat the Hawks and Cavs. They didn't step up in 11 against the Heat.

My only point is not that the Clippers would have the best player. It is that they are similar strength teams by any rational and honest measure.

The flaw in your argument is that if you put the Clippers in the East and they were exactly as good, but had better results like they would have...you'd be giving the benefit of the doubt to the Clippers here. Hence...flawed.

But again, even if we give the benefit of the doubt to the Celtcs...you are far away from proving they should be thought of as a different tier type team.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 06:14 PM

I think you might be overlooking the Lakers from back then. Not sure how legit this site is and Vegas odds aren't everything but are pretty good at rating how great teams are. http://www.thespread.com/nba-articles/102610-updated-2011-nba-finals-odds-miami-heat-favored-by-oddsmakers

Some oddsmakers had LA pegged as favorites, while others had Miami as favorites going into August and throughout the season (check the vegas link (http://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/08/lebron-james-decision/) I posted).

Most people had them > LA, though. Hell most posters on this damn forum thought Miami were gonna win it all...and that they TOO "ruined the NBA". :oldlol:

tpols

07-06-2016, 06:14 PM

Dude, they were NOT huge favorites, in 2011... that already took into account the league at the time... no need for you to go 'relative to the season', youre not appropriately using it right now :lol

the cHeat won every series in the East in no more than 5 games .. it doesnt get any easier than that. They were also 5 minutes and a double digit lead away from going up 2-0 in the Finals before LeGhost went missing.. more stacked relative to the competition. The warriors will see a series go at least 6 games before the Finals because although they are better, so is their competition.

Miami approximated themselves a dynasty before the 2011 season.. they themselves are telling you how stacked they were lol.. and in a garbage conference to boot.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:17 PM

the cHeat won every series in the East in no more than 5 games .. it doesnt get any easier than that. They were also 5 minutes and a double digit lead away from going up 2-0 in the Finals before LeGhost went missing.. more stacked relative to the competition. The warriors will see a series go at least 6 games before the Finals because although they are better, so is their competition.

Miami approximated themselves a dynasty before the 2011 season.. they themselves are telling you how stacked they were lol.. and in a garbage conference to boot.

It is quite interesting that half the people here are saying that nobody would have been surprised if the Heat didn't make it out of the 2nd round.

And half the people here are saying they were overwhelming favorites and everyone would have been shocked if they lost.

Hence why I hate perception based arguments.

The fact is that the Celtics in 11 presented no more issues for the Heat than you would expect the Clippers to present the Warriors this coming season.

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:17 PM

The difference is narrow af on the latest article...

but either way, were leaving out just how much of those odds are based on LeBron's greatness, who in the past two years was far better than current Curry/KD...

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:19 PM

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-06-2016, 06:20 PM

the cHeat won every series in the East in no more than 5 games .. it doesnt get any easier than that. They were also 5 minutes and a double digit lead away from going up 2-0 in the Finals before LeGhost went missing.. more stacked relative to the competition. The warriors will see a series go at least 6 games before the Finals because although they are better, so is their competition.

Miami approximated themselves a dynasty before the 2011 season.. they themselves are telling you how stacked they were lol.. and in a garbage conference to boot.

Why do people continuously ignore that? You were posting here back in 2011 tpols... I know you remember the perception at that time.

EVERYBODY ridiculed LeBron for "ruining" the league. That he stacked the deck and cheated his way into free championships.

Now...I'm not saying he got "free rings", dude had to earn them in 2012 and 2013 - but again, that was the viewpoint in 2010 and 2011.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:20 PM

tpols, youre leaving out context again... those were 5 game series closer than most 6 game ones... OT in game 4 with C's a chance to win at the buzzer? Game 5 down 5 with 3 mins left?

Another game 4 going OT against Bulls? Down 10 with 3 minutes left in game 5?

Im sure back then you sang a different tune

And you don't think a healthy Clippers team could push that 11 Heat team in a similar way...while ending up losing in 5?

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:24 PM

And you don't think a healthy Clippers team could push that 11 Heat team in a similar way...while ending up losing in 5?

probably 6, maybe 5.. what was the discussion about with this Clippers thing?

NBAGOAT

07-06-2016, 06:26 PM

Some oddsmakers had LA pegged as favorites, while others had Miami as favorites going into August and throughout the season (check the vegas link (http://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/08/lebron-james-decision/) I posted).

Most people had them > LA, though. Hell most posters on this damn forum thought Miami were gonna win it all...and that they TOO "ruined the NBA". :oldlol:

yea I would say Miami was favored over LA but it was definitely much closer to this year. Heat were 9 to 5 in your article while Lakers were 5 to 2. Most recent odds I've seen are 2 to 3 for Warriors(Lol) and Cavs at 5 to 2. A lot of the discussion now is mostly can the Cavs even make the Finals competitive and not get swept. I think people were excited as hell back then for a Lakers-Heat Finals.

Edit: There were also enough homer Laker fans who still legit believed the Lakers could win and Lebron would crash on the big stage(they were half right). Cavs fans don't seem nearly as hopeful right now/

Hey Yo

07-06-2016, 06:26 PM

the cHeat won every series in the East in no more than 5 games .. it doesnt get any easier than that. They were also 5 minutes and a double digit lead away from going up 2-0 in the Finals before LeGhost went missing.. more stacked relative to the competition. The warriors will see a series go at least 6 games before the Finals because although they are better, so is their competition.

Miami approximated themselves a dynasty before the 2011 season.. they themselves are telling you how stacked they were lol.. and in a garbage conference to boot.
Yet they lost 24gms and were a 2 seed.

Any chance 2017 healthy GS loses more reg. season games, worse than a 2 seed and while having the tougher schedule........ than the 2011 Heat?

GS is also talking dynasty before they've even practiced together.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:27 PM

probably 6, maybe 5.. what was the discussion about with this Clippers thing?

I simply asserted that a healthy Clippers squad for this coming year would be a team of similar strength to the 11 Celtics were.

That I don't think it is fair to pretend like there is a difference there.

The big difference would be between the Warriors and the Heat. The Warriors are just way better on paper and that is why people would be shocked if the Clippers beat them...not because the 11 Celtics are much better. It is about the Heat just not being remotely as well built of a team, again...on paper, as the current Warriors.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:28 PM

They always stepped it up? They were in the East playing weaker competition. They took back to back 7 game series to beat the Hawks and Cavs. They didn't step up in 11 against the Heat.

My only point is not that the Clippers would have the best player. It is that they are similar strength teams by any rational and honest measure.

The flaw in your argument is that if you put the Clippers in the East and they were exactly as good, but had better results like they would have...you'd be giving the benefit of the doubt to the Clippers here. Hence...flawed.

But again, even if we give the benefit of the doubt to the Celtcs...you are far away from proving they should be thought of as a different tier type team.

No they are not similar in strenght. Your problem is that you use regular season to define their strength. That's a huge flaw. It has been proven many times that regular season doesn't mean anything. Clippers have only proved to choke in the playoffs and Celtics have proven many times to step up in the playoffs. With the playoffs in mind, Celtics are better.

And you can't use the ''if'' arguments with me. Let's stick to actual facts.

Young X

07-06-2016, 06:28 PM

It is quite interesting that half the people here are saying that nobody would have been surprised if the Heat didn't make it out of the 2nd round.

And half the people here are saying they were overwhelming favorites and everyone would have been shocked if they lost.

Hence why I hate perception based arguments.

The fact is that the Celtics in 11 presented no more issues for the Heat than you would expect the Clippers to present the Warriors this coming season.It's tough because we don't know how the Warriors and the other teams in the west will look yet.

We saw how Miami looked in 2011 and they were clearly worse than we all expected at least up to the point where they faced Boston.

If things play out how we expect though, then I can't see how the last sentence in your post could be true.

tpols

07-06-2016, 06:30 PM

tpols, youre leaving out context again... those were 5 game series closer than most 6 game ones... OT in game 4 with C's a chance to win at the buzzer? Game 5 down 5 with 3 mins left?

Another game 4 going OT against Bulls? Down 10 with 3 minutes left in game 5?

Im sure back then you sang a different tune

bro every battle with the current cavaliers and the detroit pistons came down to the wire.. they were still never in danger of losing. The more we look back on it, the more you can see the competition just wasnt that good .. especially compared to next years west which is gonna see a resurgence imo.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:30 PM

It's tough because we don't know how the Warriors and the other teams in the west will look yet.

We saw how Miami looked in 2011 and they were clearly worse than we all expected at least up to the point where they faced Boston.

If things play out how we expect though, then I can't see how the last sentence in your post could be true.

Why?

The Heat beat them in 5 games and were never ultimately pushed by the Celtics. It is not like the Clippers or another team in the 2nd round has a huge burden to carry in order to match what the Celtics did in 11.

I agree with your post though...the perception is the problem. But we don't have to rely on that for what happened in 11 anymore...we know what actually happened. That is my point.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:32 PM

bro every battle with the current cavaliers and the detroit pistons came down to the wire.. they were still never in danger of losing. The more we look back on it, the more you can see the competition just wasnt that good .. especially compared to next years west which is gonna see a resurgence imo.
:oldlol: :oldlol:

West is getting weaker. OKC is done. Clippers are Clippers. Spurs are the only great team outside of Warriors.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:33 PM

No they are not similar in strenght. Your problem is that you use regular season to define their strength. That's a huge flaw. It has been proven many times that regular season doesn't mean anything. Clippers have only proved to choke in the playoffs and Celtics have proven many times to step up in the playoffs. With the playoffs in mind, Celtics are better.

And you can't use the ''if'' arguments with me. Let's stick to actual facts.

I'm not using the regular season only at all. I'm evaluating what type of team they were in 11.

Also, if you want to stick to facts....it is very simple;

The Celtics lost in 5 to the Heat and did not actually test them.

So if we are only sticking to facts...we are done. We will now wait and see if the Clippers or whomever the Warriors play in the 2nd round can match the heavy burden of winning 1 game in the series.

tamaraw08

07-06-2016, 06:35 PM

Let me end this Lebron vs Durant debate right now.
Before Durant joined the GSW, Vegas odds had GSW as the title favorites over Cavs for 2017. :oldlol: :oldlol:
Before Lebron joined Miami, Miami were not even close to title favorites according to vegas.

end of discussion

I love the fact that you intentionally ignored the fact that Chris Bosh who averaged 24 pts, 11 rebs was ALSO JOINING THE TEAM. :roll:
That Wade was there, too, and just averaged 26 pts, 6.4 assists
For a combined averages of 50 pts, 16 rebs and 10 assists for just 2 players.
You then add very good role players like lock down defender Battier, Haslem 8 rebs and Mike Miller who just averaged 48% from 3pt, 59.6EFG%, yup
end of discussion indeed. :facepalm

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:35 PM

I'm not using the regular season only at all. I'm evaluating what type of team they were in 11.

Also, if you want to stick to facts....it is very simple;

The Celtics lost in 5 to the Heat and did not actually test them.

So if we are only sticking to facts...we are done. We will now wait and see if the Clippers or whomever the Warriors play in the 2nd round can match the heavy burden of winning 1 game in the series.

Yeah we are done.

warriorfan

07-06-2016, 06:36 PM

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:38 PM

I love the fact that you intentionally ignored the fact that Chris Bosh who averaged 24 pts, 11 rebs was ALSO JOINING THE TEAM. :roll:
That Wade was there, too, and just averaged 26 pts, 6.4 assists
For a combined averages of 50 pts, 16 rebs and 10 assists for just 2 players.
You then add very good role players like lock down defender Battier, Haslem 8 rebs and Mike Miller who just averaged 48% from 3pt, 59.6EFG%, yup
end of discussion indeed. :facepalm

WTF are you talking about?
This year, before Durant's decision, Vegas odds had Warriors as favorites to win 2017 championship.
When Lebron joined Heat ( Bosh and Wade were already signed), Heat were not even close to being the favorites according to vegas odds.
That's the huge difference between Lebron and Durant's decisions.
Durant joined a team that had the best odds in the league to win the champioships. Lebron joined a team that didn't have good odds of winning the champioship without him.

tpols

07-06-2016, 06:39 PM

:oldlol: :oldlol:

West is getting weaker. OKC is done. Clippers are Clippers. Spurs are the only great team outside of Warriors.

Spurs are the only true contender in 2017 west and 2011 east combined.. the Bulls and Celtics would belong on a lower rung with the Clippers or (healthy) Grizz. Thats the primary reason Golden State will face a much tougher path than the Heat did. They have to beat two contenders. Miami only had to beat one.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:42 PM

Spurs are the only true contender in 2017 west and 2011 east combined.. the Bulls and Celtics would belong on a lower rung with the Clippers or (healthy) Grizz. Thats the primary reason Golden State will face a much tougher path than the Heat did. They have to beat two contenders. Miami only had to beat one.

All of this don't mean anything if you can't support your statements.
Use support for us to take you seriously.
You are not some kind of messiah. You are known for being a very agenda driven poster who changes his opinion a lot to fit that agenda.
It's hard to take you seriously without support.

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 06:42 PM

Spurs are the only true contender in 2017 west and 2011 east combined.. the Bulls and Celtics would belong on a lower rung with the Clippers or (healthy) Grizz. Thats the primary reason Golden State will face a much tougher path than the Heat did. They have to beat two contenders. Miami only had to beat one.

We have to see it play out first before we for sure say that though.

Leonard or LMA could play as terribly as Rose did and it would make them a non contender as well.

I agree with the overall point about the Spurs being superior to the 11 Bulls and 11 Celtics, but part of what is built into that is Rose playing as bad as he did.

If Rose just plays average that series probably goes 7 games and nobody would be laughing off that Bulls team.

So you have to make room for that happening with the Spurs before we make this claim.

tamaraw08

07-06-2016, 06:44 PM

WTF are you talking about?
This year, before Durant's decision, Vegas odds had Warriors as favorites to win 2017 championship.
When Lebron joined Heat ( Bosh and Wade were already signed), Heat were not even close to being the favorites according to vegas odds.
That's the huge difference between Lebron and Durant's decisions.
Durant joined a team that had the best odds in the league to win the champioships. Lebron joined a team that didn't have good odds of winning the champioship without him.

Then Lebron is the stupid IDIOT THEN for showing up with Wade and Bosh with his "not one right, not two rings, not 3 rings..." prediction infront of thousands of people.

livinglegend

07-06-2016, 06:45 PM

Then Lebron is the stupid IDIOT THEN for showing up with Wade and Bosh with his "not one right, not two rings, not 3 rings..." prediction infront of thousands of people.
:facepalm
You lose. This is your counter argument:roll: You bolded half of a sentence and made a off topic comment

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:49 PM

bro every battle with the current cavaliers and the detroit pistons came down to the wire.. they were still never in danger of losing. The more we look back on it, the more you can see the competition just wasnt that good .. especially compared to next years west which is gonna see a resurgence imo.

came down to the wire, maybe as in trading punches til the 4 min mark... its called first round coasting.... youll always see this.

But even then, they didnt have chances to win games at the buzzer while equaling the series lol

tpols

07-06-2016, 06:51 PM

We have to see it play out first before we for sure say that though.

Leonard or LMA could play as terribly as Rose did and it would make them a non contender as well.

I agree with the overall point about the Spurs being superior to the 11 Bulls and 11 Celtics, but part of what is built into that is Rose playing as bad as he did.

If Rose just plays average that series probably goes 7 games and nobody would be laughing off that Bulls team.

So you have to make room for that happening with the Spurs before we make this claim.

i mean yea if the Spurs go down in flames we could knock them down .. I dont think that will happen though.. they have way more talent, better balance of offense / defense, and just superior system. Rose and the Bulls were a regular season team that didnt have firepower for the playoffs.. they looked bad throughout the whole playoffs that year.. it was literally Rose just barreling into the paint, missing most the time and hustle scrubs cleaning everything up.. it was not elite basketball being played.. ugly, simple style.

Hey Yo

07-06-2016, 06:51 PM

Actually what LeBron did was worse

LeBron left his hometown team to join up with players with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league (Wade and Bosh)

https://s31.postimg.org/d9ndpvc63/lebroncollude.jpg

That would be the same as Curry leaving his hometown to join OKC (joining the 2nd and 4th highest PER)

https://s31.postimg.org/japo0i0yz/King_Curry.png
Durant left a 1st team All-NBA teammate to join 3 other All-NBA players plus one of the 3 was All-NBA defense too.

3 total All-NBA player(s).... How much help does Curry need??

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 06:52 PM

Durant left a 1st team All-NBA teammate to join 3 other All-NBA players plus one of the 3 was All-NBA defense too.

3 total All-NBA player(s).... How much help does Curry need??

dude wtf

stop engaging with him

Young X

07-06-2016, 06:58 PM

DMAVS41

07-06-2016, 07:00 PM

i mean yea if the Spurs go down in flames we could knock them down .. I dont think that will happen though.. they have way more talent, better balance of offense / defense, and just superior system. Rose and the Bulls were a regular season team that didnt have firepower for the playoffs.. they looked bad throughout the whole playoffs that year.. it was literally Rose just barreling into the paint, missing most the time and hustle scrubs cleaning everything up.. it was not elite basketball being played.. ugly, simple style.

Agreed, but my point is that if Leonard just plays like ass...then the Spurs won't be anything of note.

The Bulls weren't very good because of their offense...it was always ugly. It is just that stars usually don't do 43.6% TS on a contending team.

Just have to make room for something absurd like that happening with the Spurs.

tpols

07-06-2016, 07:02 PM

How were the Celtics not contenders?

because they were old, broken down off few long playoff runs.. and they got manhandled in 5 games in the second round .. thats not a contender to me. They were contenders in the same way the Lakers were contenders.. two beat up, past prime, heavy weight champs that didnt have the legs anymore.

they had one last blip of resurgence during the 2012 lockout season in the playoffs and then they blew it up..

ArbitraryWater

07-06-2016, 07:09 PM

because they were old, broken down off few long playoff runs.. and they got manhandled in 5 games in the second round .. thats not a contender to me. They were contenders in the same way the Lakers were contenders.. two beat up, past prime, heavy weight champs that didnt have the legs anymore.

they had one last blip of resurgence during the 2012 lockout season in the playoffs and then they blew it up..

:oldlol: 2011 Celtics were a replica of the 2010 ones... stop it.

2010 contender, w/ 50 wins, no inside scoring, two 3 pt shooters, a subpar offense... but 2011 old and broken down :rolleyes:

Young X

07-06-2016, 07:18 PM

because they were old, broken down off few long playoff runs.. and they got manhandled in 5 games in the second round .. thats not a contender to me. They were contenders in the same way the Lakers were contenders.. two beat up, past prime, heavy weight champs that didnt have the legs anymore.

they had one last blip of resurgence during the 2012 lockout season in the playoffs and then they blew it up..It wasn't no "blip of resurgence".

They just had Rondo healthy in 2012. In the 2011 series Wade landed on his arm in one of the games and he was ineffective after that.

The Lakers were also contenders in 2011. Let's not rewrite history now.

LeBird

07-07-2016, 01:27 AM

They were though.

I already posted a link showing Vegas painting LA as title favorites, and as soon Miami combined their talents, they immediately became 7 to 1 favorites.

ESPN, other various media outlets, and the players themselves thought they had surefire chips.

Cut the bullshit...

Do you know how odds work? :lol

Golden State are -150 for next season. Heat were +170 in 10-11.

It's basic math...Golden state are far bigger favorites. Do your family a favor and never gamble in your life.

Some oddsmakers had LA pegged as favorites, while others had Miami as favorites going into August and throughout the season (check the vegas link (http://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/jul/08/lebron-james-decision/) I posted).

Most people had them > LA, though. Hell most posters on this damn forum thought Miami were gonna win it all...and that they TOO "ruined the NBA". :oldlol:

The back-peddling is real :facepalm ; now it's 'most' bookies and people on this forum thought so. Great. That doesn't make Miami heavy favorites in 10-11. :lol

You seem to be obsessed over how rings have changed the narrative but these are odds from back then before anything happened. If anything, the reason the narrative around LeBron changed was because it wasn't like Bosh or Wade made the league uncompetitive. It still took LeBron carrying the team and them through bad form and injury to win and get to those finals. Context changed the narrative, how is that bad? But even beforehand, they still weren't the kind of favorites GSW are now. That's just a fact.

But you seem hell-bent on ignoring reality. It's nuts and funny at the same time. The shit people do to save face.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-07-2016, 03:13 AM

Do you know how odds work? :lol

Golden State are -150 for next season. Heat were +170 in 10-11.

It's basic math...Golden state are far bigger favorites. Do your family a favor and never gamble in your life.

Who's comparing the odds to Golden State this year?

I know I'm not.

Instead of jumping into convos where discussions shift, and punching keys so that people think you have something relevant to say, try reading a bit first.

The back-peddling is real :facepalm ; now it's 'most' bookies and people on this forum thought so. Great. That doesn't make Miami heavy favorites in 10-11. :lol

You seem to be obsessed over how rings have changed the narrative but these are odds from back then before anything happened. If anything, the reason the narrative around LeBron changed was because it wasn't like Bosh or Wade made the league uncompetitive. It still took LeBron carrying the team and them through bad form and injury to win and get to those finals. Context changed the narrative, how is that bad? But even beforehand, they still weren't the kind of favorites GSW are now. That's just a fact.

But you seem hell-bent on ignoring reality. It's nuts and funny at the same time. The shit people do to save face.

You're basically a next man just hanging off my nuts at this point. :oldlol:

Find a quote where I claimed ALL oddsmakers had the Lakers or Miami as favorites...

We've already established that Golden State is the team "more favorite" to win going into their season. The question is by how much, but most don't care to debate that. Only you and that other clown did.

LeBird

07-07-2016, 10:51 AM

Who's comparing the odds to Golden State this year?

I know I'm not.

Instead of jumping into convos where discussions shift, and punching keys so that people think you have something relevant to say, try reading a bit first.

Are you retarded?

This whole discussion is whether GSW with Durant are the same (or in the same ball park to quote you) as Heat in 2010 in terms of being favorites.

The odds clearly show they're not. Even your argument that relative to the league strength they were shows you're incorrect because of the odds. You simply wouldn't give up until people actually went and showed you the odds. And even when they did you still tried to save face :lol

You're basically a next man just hanging off my nuts at this point. :oldlol:

Find a quote where I claimed ALL oddsmakers had the Lakers or Miami as favorites...

We've already established that Golden State is the team "more favorite" to win going into their season. The question is by how much, but most don't care to debate that. Only you and that other clown did.

You said they're in the same ball park. The odds show they weren't. You were wrong. The reason people are differentiating between 2010 and the recent move by Durant was to show you just how much different and that it's not some media conspiracy that LeBron is getting a pass and Durant isn't.

It's hilarious to see you squirm. You're either a dumb kid or a grown man who doesn't know when to admit a fault and move on.

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-07-2016, 12:09 PM

Are you retarded?

This whole discussion is whether GSW with Durant are the same (or in the same ball park to quote you) as Heat in 2010 in terms of being favorites.

The odds clearly show they're not. Even your argument that relative to the league strength they were shows you're incorrect because of the odds. You simply wouldn't give up until people actually went and showed you the odds. And even when they did you still tried to save face :lol

You said they're in the same ball park. The odds show they weren't. You were wrong. The reason people are differentiating between 2010 and the recent move by Durant was to show you just how much different and that it's not some media conspiracy that LeBron is getting a pass and Durant isn't.

It's hilarious to see you squirm. You're either a dumb kid or a grown man who doesn't know when to admit a fault and move on.

F*cking lol

Nowhere did I use "odds" as a sole determiner. I said most people, and most people are NOT oddsmakers from vegas you moron. Not only that, but I provided a link that clearly shows Miami as favorites heading into August of 2010.

Replying to every post of mine feverishly is just a way for you to get attention, and I have no time to babysit trolls. :oldlol:

LeBird

07-07-2016, 12:09 PM

F*cking lol

Nowhere did I use "odds" as a sole determiner. I said most people, and most people are NOT oddsmakers from vegas you moron. Not only that, but I provided a link that clearly shows Miami as favorites heading into August of 2010.

This will be my last post on the subject. :oldlol: Replying to every post of mine feverishly is just a way for you to get attention,

Here it is... Enjoy this while it lasts :cheers:

Yeah...most people in your imagination and people you're citing from ISH...lawwwwd ::facepalm Meanwhile..in the real world...:lol

It's just easy to get you to respond and make yourself dig a bigger hole. :D You know you're getting shat on so badly you have to reply, even when no one agrees with you.

I hope you stop posting for your own sake, but I'm not holding my breath. :sleeping