Hillary Swagger Jacks Bernie- Offers Free College Plan

[DonDadda59]

I'd like to see some specifics about how this plan would be financed, her campaign says it will cost $350 billion over 10 years. Pretty big nut to cover.

[INDENT]Clinton unveils college tuition plan similar to Bernie Sanders' proposals

Hillary Clinton is out with an updated college plan, and it

[highwhey]

interesting

[UK2K]

No such thing as 'free' in this life.

Your average voter doesn't care though.

[Jameerthefear]

bernie actually got her to concede... wow

[Facepalm]

NO way will this work. Clinton is still better than Trump though.

[KyrieTheFuture]

God I can't ****ing believe people think this is a good idea

[DonDadda59]

bernie actually got her to concede... wow

The first draft of the Dem Platform (https://demconvention.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/2016-DEMOCRATIC-PARTY-PLATFORM-DRAFT-7.1.16.pdf) is VERY progressive, and this motherf*cker Bern is straight up holding the Democrat party hostage. He's refusing to drop out and officially endorse Clinton until he gets everything he wants. His revolution is actually happening. :lol

Well played, Bern. Good form. :applause:

[Jameerthefear]

it just won't work.
alternatives do though, like say free CC. TN gives free community college to everyone and uses the lottery to fund it. but even with that, since the lottery is banned in AL and MS which border TN, a sizable chunk of that money comes from other states (i know a lot of people that travel to TN just to buy lottery tickets). i think FL funds their bright futures program with lottery money

[UK2K]

it just won't work.
alternatives do though, like say free CC. TN gives free community college to everyone and uses the lottery to fund it. but even with that, since the lottery is banned in AL and MS which border TN, a sizable chunk of that money comes from other states (i know a lot of people that travel to TN just to buy lottery tickets). i think FL funds their bright futures program with lottery money

I'd be cool with free trade school. CC is cheap as it is.

[Nanners]

first clinton policy i have seen so far that i actually like

[Akrazotile]

Liberals desperate to believe college can be an effective substitute for talent.

Whatever they do, coming to terms with life's realities is not something theyre interested in.


"If only every1 will goes to teh college, we will all be eequil!!!!!!!!l

[Facepalm]

Liberals desperate to believe college can be an effective substitute for talent. "If only every1 will goes to teh college, we will all be eequil!!!!!!!!l
We've all seen how far your "talent" has taken you.

[Akrazotile]

We've all seen how far your "talent" has taken you.


My talent for negotiating free rent has proven invaluable. Youve been obsessing me for days, and those rent savings really help with the bottom line :banana:

[KyrieTheFuture]

Recent college grads in favor of this blow my mind. You're voting to devalue your degree. You're voting for more competition. You are NOT voting your debt away.

[DonDadda59]

Liberals desperate to believe college can be an effective substitute for talent.

Whatever they do, coming to terms with life's realities is not somethibg theyre interested in.


"If only every1 will goes to teh college, we will all be eequil!!!!!!!!l

We need to close that skills gap (https://hbr.org/2014/08/employers-arent-just-whining-the-skills-gap-is-real/) and fill that record number of job openings (http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/08/news/economy/us-economy-job-openings-quits/) in America. It's either that or we get more foreigners with the necessary skills to fill those positions. And we all know how much you love the immigrants. :lol

Doesn't have to just be College. We need more apprenticeship programs and stronger unions.

[Akrazotile]

Recent college grads in favor of this blow my mind. You're voting to devalue your degree. You're voting for more competition. You are NOT voting your debt away.

The biggest problem with the system is how many businesses are requiring degrees for employment when it isnt necessary. The business world uses degrees as a de facto crutch for making hiring decisions, and it's driven up tuition tremendously. That's what has to change.

But the simpleton section doesnt identify cause and effect, or issues below the surface. It's just, "College price is high, so make gubberment pay for it so we can all be eeequoal!!!!! Simple!"


That this shit works with people absolutley blows the mind. It is the Superhead for of the cranium.

[Nanners]

Recent college grads in favor of this blow my mind. You're voting to devalue your degree. You're voting for more competition. You are NOT voting your debt away.

what a selfish way of looking at things. ever heard of empathy? maybe recent grads dont want any more young people to be buried under a mountain of debt like they are?

[Akrazotile]

what a selfish way of looking at things. maybe recent grads dont want any more young people to be buried under a mountain of debt like they are?


So a college grad has a worthless degree and a mountain of debt.

And he shouod want tuition to go up even higher, paid for by government subsidy (ie tax dollars from business who might hire him, or taxes he'll pay when hired) so more kids can get worthless degrees and raise tuition for the next generation and support it with THEIR taxes)


Jenius, bro. I mean, it's really jenius.


"MAKE EVERYTHING FREE SO THAT WERE JUST ALL EQUAOL AND STUFF GAWDDDDD!!!!!!" :rant :rant :rant


I mean, it's definitely the kind of logic that makes you respect someone's intellect. It absolutely is. It is.



I mean it. :crazysam:

[KyrieTheFuture]

what a selfish way of looking at things. ever heard of empathy? maybe recent grads dont want any more young people to be buried under a mountain of debt like they are?
Okay, I don't want to pay for your English, History, Writing, WGS, Art, etc degree. YOU should have to pay for that, not the country.

Community college, apprenticeships, STEM degrees. Those should all be funded by the government because they provide a lot more real value. The problem is nobody wants to be a ****ing electrician anymore despite it being incredibly important and high paying.

Kraz is wrong, you do NOT need a degree. Those people's "empathy" just made it even harder to pay off their own debt.

[Akrazotile]

Okay, I don't want to pay for your English, History, Writing, WGS, Art, etc degree. YOU should have to pay for that, not the country.

Community college, apprenticeships, STEM degrees. Those should all be funded by the government because they provide a lot more real value. The problem is nobody wants to be a ****ing electrician anymore despite it being incredibly important and high paying.

Kraz is wrong, you do NOT need a degree. Those people's "empathy" just made it even harder to pay off their own debt.


Uhhh.....


You just claimed I was wrong and then agreed with me in the same sentence.


Dunno how that works, exactly.

[Nanners]

Okay, I don't want to pay for your English, History, Writing, WGS, Art, etc degree. YOU should have to pay for that, not the country.

Community college, apprenticeships, STEM degrees. Those should all be funded by the government because they provide a lot more real value. The problem is nobody wants to be a ****ing electrician anymore despite it being incredibly important and high paying.

Kraz is wrong, you do NOT need a degree. Those people's "empathy" just made it even harder to pay off their own debt.

I dont want to pay to bomb Syria and Iraq or subsidize the profits of Monsanto and Exxon, but thats just part of being a citizen of a large nation.

Out of all the things we could potentially spend money on, sending youngsters to college debt free is one of the best things I can think of.

I absolutely agree that we should fund community college, apprenticeships and STEM degrees, but I dont think we should stop there.

A more educated society is good for everyone.

[Facepalm]

My talent for negotiating free rent has proven invaluable. Youve been obsessing me for days, and those rent savings really help with the bottom line :banana:


Good luck paying your bills and improving your sad lot in life with your ISH-cred and selling 5 bumper stickers a month. :cheers:

[KyrieTheFuture]

I dont want to pay to bomb Syria and Iraq or subsidize the profits of Monsanto and Exxon, but thats just part of being a citizen of a large nation.

Out of all the things we could potentially spend money on, sending youngsters to college debt free is one of the best things I can think of.

I absolutely agree that we should fund community college, apprenticeships and STEM degrees, but I dont think we should stop there.

A more educated society is good for everyone.
Oh neither do I, I'd rather choose art degrees than bombs too, but that's not the case. The debate is, pay for bombs in syria or pay for bombs AND everyone's tuition. I would like us to stop throwing money around.

I wanted Bernie even with his college idea but Hillary isn't doing this for young people. She's doing it for young votes.



Kraz you said every business uses a degree as a benchmark for getting in, which is not true. There are plenty of jobs you don't need it.

[Nanners]

Oh neither do I, I'd rather choose art degrees than bombs too, but that's not the case. The debate is, pay for bombs in syria or pay for bombs AND everyone's tuition. I would like us to stop throwing money around.

I wanted Bernie even with his college idea but Hillary isn't doing this for young people. She's doing it for young votes.

you are right, and i dont particularly trust her to follow through with it.

that said whatever her reasons are, I do support debt free higher education.

[Akrazotile]

I dont want to pay to bomb Syria and Iraq or subsidize the profits of Monsanto and Exxon, but thats just part of being a citizen of a large nation.


Strawman. This has nothing to do with the logical fallacy that is "free college." Trying to invoke unpopular wars to make people somehow think you must be right about education as well. Transparent and pathetic af.



A more educated society is good for everyone.

:roll:

The fact that youre so brainwashed as to believe REAL EDUCATION comes from a certificate that has to be paid for, and doled out by tenured old nutbags who are often LITERALLY insane, proves how uneducated our society actually is. It proves how completely ignorant and delusional you are.

And you probably have a degree. :oldlol:

[KyrieTheFuture]

you are right, and i dont particularly trust her to follow through with it.

that said whatever her reasons are, I do support debt free higher education.
This will be her version of Obama's "WE'RE CLOSING DOWN GITMO"

[Jameerthefear]

Okay, I don't want to pay for your English, History, Writing, WGS, Art, etc degree. YOU should have to pay for that, not the country.

Community college, apprenticeships, STEM degrees. Those should all be funded by the government because they provide a lot more real value. The problem is nobody wants to be a ****ing electrician anymore despite it being incredibly important and high paying.

Kraz is wrong, you do NOT need a degree. Those people's "empathy" just made it even harder to pay off their own debt.
STEM degrees aren't the only valuable degrees either

[KyrieTheFuture]

STEM degrees aren't the only valuable degrees either
Obviously, but most degrees are meaningless.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cta.asp


That graph should be reversed, except health

[Akrazotile]

STEM degrees aren't the only valuable degrees either


Quite true. Medicine, law, and a few others are important.

But the reality is, things like "communications" degrees are simply fluff degrees designed to give kids an excuse to go to college unnecessarily.

People don't understand, college was NEVER set up nor intended to be vocational training. College was a place for young men of means to go and continue learning things, at a time when MOST young men had to go and earn a living as a butcher, cobbler, rancher, blacksmith, whatever. You had young men from rich families who didn't really have any obligations, so hungreds or thousands of years ago they set up places for them to go and learn Greek and Latin and ways to calculate the position of the earth and stars etc.

The best way to learn how to do most things is STILL on the job training. Of course you have to go through extensive and rigorous training to be a surgeon or a lawyer, where peoples lives are in your hands. To write marketing jingles, you need four years of college 'marketing' courses?? :facepalm :facepalm The problem is kids start to think it's not about being creative and actually coming up with good marketing jingles, but simply being herded into the college pen and suddenly being 'qualified' by the time you've paid 4 years of tuition. This mindset of 'give everything out for free' is extremely damaging in the long term, but it preys on liberal emotions, which are much more sensitive than their sense of logic.


The collective ignorance and mobthink of the country is the problem here. Not the fact that too few kids are sitting in crowded lecture halls with old kooks giving power points.

[TheMan]

We've all seen how far your "talent" has taken you.

Savage

Dude still lives at home and is well into his 30s...fuccing leach ass bum

[BoutPractice]

The political arguments against liberal arts education are hopelessly short-sighted.

Education is about what kind of civilization you want to encourage... not bean-counting.

Do you want to lift people up or bring them down? Do you want a population of free citizens, or mindless slaves? Curious, creative thinkers or drones?

And I say as someone who hates almost all current trends in liberal education. But the solution is to fix it, not to get rid of it.

We need more focus on liberal education and even more on mathematics and the hard sciences. We actually need fewer people to go into business studies, finance, economics etc. (Business is something you should learn on the job... you'll probably find it easier if you got a good liberal arts education, too)

In my ideal world, more people would simply go to the library, but making a college education more affordable is a more practical step in the right direction.

Of course, the anti-intellectual majority hates it. But you should remember that some countries tried to put anti-intellectualism into practice... force frail college students to go back to the country, plow the field, that sort of thing. Needless to say, that didn't turn out so well...

[NumberSix]

The political arguments against liberal arts education are hopelessly short-sighted.

Education is about what kind of civilization you want to encourage... not bean-counting.

Do you want to lift people up or bring them down? Do you want a population of free citizens, or mindless slaves? Curious, creative thinkers or drones?

And I say as someone who hates almost all current trends in liberal education. But the solution is to fix it, not to get rid of it.

We need more focus on liberal education and even more on mathematics and the hard sciences. We actually need fewer people to go into business studies, finance, economics etc. (Business is something you should learn on the job... you'll probably find it easier if you got a good liberal arts education, too)

Ideally, more people would read books, but making a college education more affordable is a more practical step in the right direction.

Of course, the anti-intellectual majority hates it. But you should remember that some countries tried to put anti-intellectualism into practice... force frail college students to go back to the country, plow the field, that sort of thing. Needless to say, that didn't turn out so well...
People should get whatever kind of education they want. But if you want it, pay for it.

[Akrazotile]

We need more focus on liberal education and even more on mathematics and the hard sciences. We actually need fewer people to go into business studies, finance, economics etc. (Business is something you should learn on the job... you'll probably find it easier if you got a good liberal arts education, too)

In my ideal world, more people would simply go to the library, but making a college education more affordable is a more practical step in the right direction.

Of course, the anti-intellectual majority hates it. But you should remember that some countries tried to put anti-intellectualism into practice... force frail college students to go back to the country, plow the field, that sort of thing. Needless to say, that didn't turn out so well...


Admissions departments, applications, transcripts, tuition, government grants, course levels 102, 301, 462, waiting lists, undergrad requirements, semesters, grade point averages, dorms, tenured professors..

Is MORE practical...


Than going to a library?


:ohwell:

[UK2K]

I dont want to pay to bomb Syria and Iraq or subsidize the profits of Monsanto and Exxon, but thats just part of being a citizen of a large nation.

Out of all the things we could potentially spend money on, sending youngsters to college debt free is one of the best things I can think of.

I absolutely agree that we should fund community college, apprenticeships and STEM degrees, but I dont think we should stop there.

A more educated society is good for everyone.
For generic business degrees that are handed out like candy...

No.

For important degrees, sure. But like I said, free vocational school is the best idea, IMO. You ARE investing in the future of your country, AND teaching USEFUL job skills.

Not paying for some dumbass to go smoke weed and party every weekend so that when they get to the real world, they're no more useful as an employee than someone who has been working the past four years.

[UK2K]

The political arguments against liberal arts education are hopelessly short-sighted.

Education is about what kind of civilization you want to encourage... not bean-counting.

Do you want to lift people up or bring them down? Do you want a population of free citizens, or mindless slaves? Curious, creative thinkers or drones?

And I say as someone who hates almost all current trends in liberal education. But the solution is to fix it, not to get rid of it.

We need more focus on liberal education and even more on mathematics and the hard sciences. We actually need fewer people to go into business studies, finance, economics etc. (Business is something you should learn on the job... you'll probably find it easier if you got a good liberal arts education, too)

In my ideal world, more people would simply go to the library, but making a college education more affordable is a more practical step in the right direction.

Of course, the anti-intellectual majority hates it. But you should remember that some countries tried to put anti-intellectualism into practice... force frail college students to go back to the country, plow the field, that sort of thing. Needless to say, that didn't turn out so well...

That's not we are producing, given the curriculum and amount of bullshitting that goes on on college campuses now. Not even close.

In fact, what you are getting now are mindless drones with the inability to think for themselves, because they've never had to.

[Awesomedoers]

Everyone in this thread is extremely anti college. I wonder how many of them did go to college :lol

[Awesomedoers]

For generic business degrees that are handed out like candy...

No.

For important degrees, sure. But like I said, free vocational school is the best idea, IMO. You ARE investing in the future of your country, AND teaching USEFUL job skills.

Not paying for some dumbass to go smoke weed and party every weekend so that when they get to the real world, they're no more useful as an employee than someone who has been working the past four years.
You have a point but college degrees will get you farther than voteech in terms of incomce and it helps society more if we have more doctors than electrians

[redhonda76]

I don't agree having free colleges but the problem is college/university tuition has gone out of control in the past 15 years. My days of college was long gone but 15 years ago, my tuition was $6,000/year and now it's $22,000/year. It's insane on how young people these days have huge debt after graduation. Higher education is turning into a huge business profit for both the universities and the banks.

[Akrazotile]

I don't agree having free colleges but the problem is college/university tuition has gone out of control in the past 15 years. My days of college was long gone but 15 years ago, my tuition was $6,000/year and now it's $22,000/year. It's insane on how young people these days have huge debt after graduation. Higher education is turning into a huge business profit for both the universities and the banks.


But you actually have to think to realize this, so it's not something the lefties will get on board with.


"If some people go, den every1 has to go, so we can all be eekwull!

And if ther price goes up, just make the government pay for it! Then itss free!"


The American left: All heart and no brains. And damn proud of it.

[~primetime~]

She didn't steal this from Bernie, she has been talking about this for months and months now.

I have been posting about this in here for a long time now...it's the main reason I want HillDawg in there.


IMO this will be a massive boost to the economy and the middle class in general...too many people are held down by college debt, it's a major issue right now that needs to be dealt with.

[~primetime~]

It's not FREE college either...it will basically just chop a lot of college debt in half.

It's a far more realistic plan that what Bernie had.

[Nick Young]

I don't agree having free colleges but the problem is college/university tuition has gone out of control in the past 15 years. My days of college was long gone but 15 years ago, my tuition was $6,000/year and now it's $22,000/year. It's insane on how young people these days have huge debt after graduation. Higher education is turning into a huge business profit for both the universities and the banks.
Yep.

The UK education system is already ****ed because it offers college loans to everyone, even the retarded kids who don't belong in college.

New universities began springing up that have very low standards in order to take advantage of all the retards who wanted to go to college and now were able to.


In order to compete with them, the good universities started lowering their standards in order to attract more retards.

The courses become easier. The retard kids enter the class and cause trouble and hold up the courses for students who are there to actually learn.


Educational standards in universities have dropped compared to what they were even 10 years ago.


We don't want free or cheap college for everyone. It is a retarded system that dilutes everything. Quite frankly not everyone belongs in college, and also, the more people who have degrees, the less a degree means.

Talented people who can't afford college are already given scholarships and state funding.

We should be encouraging apprenticeships rather than college. We need more electricians and plumbers and less Gender Studies majors.

[Nick Young]

She didn't steal this from Bernie, she has been talking about this for months and months now.

I have been posting about this in here for a long time now...it's the main reason I want HillDawg in there.


IMO this will be a massive boost to the economy and the middle class in general...too many people are held down by college debt, it's a major issue right now that needs to be dealt with.
goddamn you are the most shortsighted sheep on this forum:hammerhead:

The issue is that retards are taking out debt without knowing the possible consequences. Instead of enabling retards who can't handle their finances properly, we should make it more difficult for these people to take out loans and enter university. If you are a moron with zero potential, the government should not be providing loans for you to spend 4 years studying 21st Century Anthropology or some BS like that. If you are a moron and intent on getting a degree in some BS major, that is not a right that the government should be giving to you. Save up the money and pay for your little degree yourself.

[Hawker]

We need to close that skills gap (https://hbr.org/2014/08/employers-arent-just-whining-the-skills-gap-is-real/) and fill that record number of job openings (http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/08/news/economy/us-economy-job-openings-quits/) in America. It's either that or we get more foreigners with the necessary skills to fill those positions. And we all know how much you love the immigrants. :lol

Doesn't have to just be College. We need more apprenticeship programs and stronger unions.

Then lets keep the free college to the skills in demand. Not irrelevant degrees like psych, comm., "business" etc.

What you're asking for is essentially skills training.

Point has been made multiple times I guess. Should read entire thread.

[~primetime~]

This wouldn't put everyone in college ffs...some of you are comptetely clueless as to how this would work.

It wouldn't result in handing out free degrees for retards :facepalm

We've always had community college in this country for retards to obtain degrees cheap...it doesn't water down anything...an Ivy League Degree is still in high demand.

[Nick Young]

This wouldn't put everyone in college ffs...some of you are comptetely clueless as to how this would work.

It wouldn't result in handing out free degrees for retards :facepalm

We've always had community college in this country for retards to obtain degrees cheap...it doesn't water down anything...an Ivy League Degree is still in high demand.


In theory it won't, but in practice it inevitably will.

Hillary's plan basically mimics Tony Blair's retarded plan from the 90s.

We have already seen the same shit fail hard in the UK.

Why mimic a failing system?:hammerhead:

[~primetime~]

Youre basically saying "we need to make college unaffordable so that degrees are worth something!"...just think about that :facepalm

[~primetime~]

Look...if you think too much education is a bad thing for ANY country, kill yourself

It's like Trumptards are blatantly yelling "WE WANT IDIOCRACY !!!"


If this DID happen to result in top Universities lowering their standards, or somehow retarded kids actually acquiring Master's Degrees then something will need to be adjusted with how the colleges are run and NOT with how much it costs to get in.

Education shouldn't be exclusive to rich kids.

[Hawker]

Look...if you think too much education is a bad thing for ANY country, kill yourself

It's like Trumptards are blatantly yelling "WE WANT IDIOCRACY !!!"


If this DID happen to result in top Universities lowering their standards, or somehow retarded kids actually acquiring Master's Degrees then something will need to be adjusted with how the colleges are run and NOT with how much it costs to get in.

Education shouldn't be exclusive to rich kids.

Has it been discussed yet as to why college might be expensive in the first place?

[Nick Young]

The political arguments against liberal arts education are hopelessly short-sighted.

Education is about what kind of civilization you want to encourage... not bean-counting.

Do you want to lift people up or bring them down? Do you want a population of free citizens, or mindless slaves? Curious, creative thinkers or drones?

And I say as someone who hates almost all current trends in liberal education. But the solution is to fix it, not to get rid of it.

We need more focus on liberal education and even more on mathematics and the hard sciences. We actually need fewer people to go into business studies, finance, economics etc. (Business is something you should learn on the job... you'll probably find it easier if you got a good liberal arts education, too)

In my ideal world, more people would simply go to the library, but making a college education more affordable is a more practical step in the right direction.

Of course, the anti-intellectual majority hates it. But you should remember that some countries tried to put anti-intellectualism into practice... force frail college students to go back to the country, plow the field, that sort of thing. Needless to say, that didn't turn out so well...
You need to realize that noble ideas do not always work in practice now matter how much you want them to.

This has already been done in several countries AND FAILED HARD.


The German model is what we should be aiming to follow.

Free college ONLY FOR THE ELITES WHO QUALIFY FOR IT. Everyone else can either PAY, or get an apprenticeship, or do a job that doesn't require a degree to enter.

It's simple.

More university degrees will not do anything to fix the "wealth divide" in our country. This idiotic plan is only going to further divide us all. :facepalm


And in 15 years when this doesn't work, you morons will be saying "IT IS OUR RIGHT TO FREE MASTERS DEGREES. IF EVERYONE HAD A MASTERS DEGREE THE COUNTRY WOULD BE IN MUCH BETTER SHAPE A DURPADURPADOODLEDOOO!!"

Educate yourself people, Primetime's and BoutPractice's argument is based entirely on emotion and ignores fact and logic.

[~primetime~]

Has it been discussed yet as to why college might be expensive in the first place?It can probably be blamed on several things, but I suppose mostly simple supply and demand.

What's going on right now is not working though...it's killing the economy, everyone is buried in college debt, both kids and parents.

releasing PART of that debt would work wonders IMO...it would give people room to breathe.

[Akrazotile]

It can probably be blamed on several things, but I suppose mostly simple supply and demand.

What's going on right now is not working though...it's killing the economy, everyone is buried in college debt, both kids and parents.

releasing PART of that debt would work wonders IMO...it would give people room to breathe.


Would you agree that a good first step would be to discourage companies from requiring degrees for positions wherein it has no bearing on performance of job duties?

In other words, if we limit the number of kids who feel compelled to go to college as a requirement for their career path, and thereby reduce the overall demand for college, it will then be more affordable for those who are attending as a legitimate career necessity?

[~primetime~]

I've started college funds for both my boys...it is estimated that by the time they are ready for college the average 4-year degree (that really takes 5 years) will cost $250k.

I have to put down $80k for each one of them NOW in order to make that happen.


It's absolutely ridiculous...I feel like I can't even afford it and i'm like in the top 5% FFS!

Now do I have to pay it?...no...No one is forcing me to...I could send my kids to plumbing school lol...I could tell them that community college is all they need. BUT obviously I would rather a them get quality education and go on to do something better. So why not fight for that?

[DonDadda59]

It's not FREE college either...it will basically just chop a lot of college debt in half.

It's a far more realistic plan that what Bernie had.

New plan, broseph. You're thinking of her original College Compact which she released late last year. This one does include free in-State college tuition for any one/family making $125K or less. It's a bit more specific than Bern's generalized free college for all plan, but it's basically the same thing, which is why he endorsed it (even though he's still not officially endorsing Clinton, which is working extremely well for his agenda- he's getting the Dems to move left, closer to him).

The cost is estimated at $350 billion over a decade. Would love to hear specifically how she plans on paying for it. She already has a $500 billion infrastructure plan in the works, but at least she gave a specific plan (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-12/clinton-wants-higher-estate-tax-closed-hedge-fund-loopholes-) to pay for it (closing the carried interest tax loophole, changing the estate tax math, placing a 4% surcharge on anyone earning over $5 million).

[~primetime~]

Would you agree that a good first step would be to discourage companies from requiring degrees for positions wherein it has no bearing on performance of job duties?

In other words, if we limit the number of kids who feel compelled to go to college as a requirement for their career path, and thereby reduce the overall demand for college, it will then be more affordable for those who are attending as a legitimate career necessity?
Sure but that sounds like affirmative action for the uneducated IMO.

I'm not the biggest fan of forcing companies to hire who they don't want to.

[~primetime~]

New plan, broseph. You're thinking of her original College Compact which she released late last year. This one does include free in-State college tuition for any one/family making $125K or less. It's a bit more specific than Bern's generalized free college for all plan, but it's basically the same thing, which is why he endorsed it (even though he's still not officially endorsing Clinton, which is working extremely well for his agenda- he's getting the Dems to move left, closer to him).

The cost is estimated at $350 billion over a decade. Would love to hear specifically how she plans on paying for it. She already has a $500 billion infrastructure plan in the works, but at least she gave a specific plan (http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-01-12/clinton-wants-higher-estate-tax-closed-hedge-fund-loopholes-) to pay for it (closing the carried interest tax loophole, changing the estate tax math, placing a 4% surcharge on anyone earning over $5 million).
Her old plan required $350B and it was to be taken by removing loop holes of the taxes from the top 1%

It's basically take from the extreme rich to pay for everyone's education

[Hotlantadude81]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]I'd like to see some specifics about how this plan would be financed, her campaign says it will cost $350 billion over 10 years. Pretty big nut to cover.

[INDENT]Clinton unveils college tuition plan similar to Bernie Sanders' proposals

Hillary Clinton is out with an updated college plan, and it

[Akrazotile]

Sure but that sounds like affirmative action for the uneducated IMO.

I'm not the biggest fan of forcing companies to hire who they don't want to.


I'm not saying FORCE companies to do that, but encourage them as consumers.

For instance, let's say I start business called: BLADES OF FREEDOM - A shave club. "Political correctness down the drain"

Let's say one of my policies is that we hire the best people for the job, and don't do racial quotas, transgender quotas, foreign immigrant quotas... but we also won't discriminate using those criteria either. We just hire whom we feel works best for our business.

Now let's say I hire a web developer for my site. And maybe he has a degree, but he's leaving to do something else and we need somebody to replace him. And we get a young guy who's been all about computer programming since he was a kid. And he didn't go to college because he had his own lil projects going on making some money as a freelance designer. And he knows his stuff, and my tech guy can interview him and gauage his skills and see if he knows what he's doing. And if he does, I can hire him.

If we need some guy to write copy for our advertising, I can go through some cover letters and see which applicants are good communicators and have good ideas. I can bring them in for interviews and see who makes sense.

This would give kids leaving high school confidence that if they spend a few years working on their talents, practicing, apprenticing, networking, and all this stuff ON THEIR OWN, they can get a solid job without any debt, and without wasting 4 years of their life in lecture halls.

That sounds pretty sensible, right? Sounds like it's a win-win for your kids, whether they end up going to college or not. Because if their path requires it, it'll be cheaper. If not, they can skip it and still succeed.

Sounds like a company you'd be proud to get your shaving supplies from, wouldn't it?

[~primetime~]

"Free" :oldlol:

She'll offer anything to round up support.
I feel like this is true

She is just trying to gather up the Bernie supporters



Once she is in office she will resort to her old plan...which is better anyway

[Nick Young]

I feel like this is true

She is just trying to gather up the Bernie supporters



Once she is in office she will resort to her old plan...which is better anyway
Historically it has been people like you that cause democracies to fail.

[bladefd]

Recent college grads in favor of this blow my mind. You're voting to devalue your degree. You're voting for more competition. You are NOT voting your debt away.

But we all rise from that increased competition as a society. More competition means you have to work harder for that job over others, which means standards rise. Better educated society means more advanced high-tech jobs. More public educated in liberal arts is good for society as a whole. Everyone rises in the end if more people are educated beyond k-12.

[Nick Young]

But we all rise from that increased competition as a society. More competition means you have to work harder for that job over others, which means standards rise. Better educated society means more advanced high-tech jobs. More public educated in liberal arts is good for society as a whole. Everyone rises in the end if more people are educated beyond k-12.
No you don't. You complain about it and feel entitled to a free job straight after University and then whine and throw a tantrum when you don't get the exact job you want.

Then you complain how hard it is to get jobs. You keep complaining until entry standards are lowered.

Then you call for the next generation behind you to have an even easier time of getting to college. More degrees=better life. It worked for you right!

Then you complain about how hard it is to find a job in your degree field.


Then you blame rich people for your own personal failings.

Then you demand access to their money.

Because you deserve it and those selfish richies were all born in to it!


Wash, rinse, repeat.


The cycle continues as a new generation of entitled bladefds rise to perpetuate it over and over again.

[bladefd]

By the way, for liberal arts.. I would also say to make certain classes required for every college grad, such as college-level algebra and intro to biology/physics/basic science. Maybe even intro to technology, intro to financing, and basic english course. Basic stuff every adult should know. 5-6 classes every college student should take.

Then if you take some crappy major like psychology or art, you still have basic background in other liberal arts.

[Nick Young]

By the way, for liberal arts.. I would also say to make certain classes required for every college grad, such as college-level algebra and intro to biology/physics/basic science. Maybe even intro to technology, intro to financing, and basic english course. Basic stuff every adult should know. 5-6 classes every college student should take.

Then if you take some crappy major like psychology or art, you still have basic background in other liberal arts.
University is meant to be an elite education.

Why should we lower the standards even further by reteaching things that kids should learn in elementary and middle school to college-age kids?

If they couldn't bother to pay attention the first time, you shouldn't hold back the entire Freshman year in order to accommodate the retards who aren't able to retain basic information.


Idiots like you are part of the problem. You are literally advocating for dramatically lower entry standards as well as dramatically lower course standards. Our undergraduate degrees generally are already a joke and our education as a whole sucks compared to other developed Western nations. Even third world countries like Pakistan and China have better education standards than we do. Why make them even worse by forcing college kids to relearn shit they learned in middle school?


Your plan flies blindly and proudly in the face of reality and logic.


So it begins:hammerhead:

[bladefd]

No you don't. You complain about it and feel entitled to a free job straight after University and then whine and throw a tantrum when you don't get the exact job you want.

Then you complain how hard it is to get jobs. You keep complaining until entry standards are lowered.

Then you call for the next generation behind you to have an even easier time of getting to college. More degrees=better life. It worked for you right!

Then you complain about how hard it is to find a job in your degree field.

Then you blame rich people for your own personal failings.

Then you demand access to their money.

Because you deserve it and those selfish richies were all born in to it!

Wash, rinse, repeat.

The cycle continues as a new generation of entitled bladefds rise to perpetuate it over and over again.

No, punk. Less student debt doesn't mean it would be easier to get into college. Only thing that would change is more people would have the OPPORTUNITY to attend college from financial aspect. You can still keep the college requirements the same.

You are a selfish little troll. You only think about lifting yourself up rather than lifting up the society as a whole by giving everyone a chance to get access to education. It's not the same as handing out degrees to everyone lined up down the street. You still have to work for it, monstrous little pest.

[Nick Young]

No, punk. Less student debt doesn't mean it would be easier to get into college.
.
That's exactly what it means. Colleges will lower their standards in order to compete for tuition money from all the new dummies who are going to be entering college. Degree mill universities will pop up with the express purpose of exploiting idiots. It already happened in the UK. It is still happening. Why repeat their mistakes?


You are a naive fool who doesn't know what they're talking about. Do you have a degree from an American university? How very telling :roll:


You are a selfish little troll. You only think about lifting yourself up rather than lifting up the society as a whole by giving everyone a chance to get access to education. It's not the same as handing out degrees to everyone lined up down the street. You still have to work for it, monstrous little pest.
Are you superman? What level of narcissism do you have to have to even suggest this XD

Special snowflake entitlement culture at it's finest.

Disgusting.


monstrous little pest.
Are you reading the Mrs. Pigglewiggle books for the first time or something? XD


You have a lot to learn about how the world works, bro.

[KyrieTheFuture]

I don't understand how this devolved into "dumb people get degrees if it's less expensive". Children of the rich, in my extensive personal experience, are incredibly lazy, entitled (obviously), and moronic. They do not provide any more intellectual value than a poor person.

As has been said, some form of "top ten percent of performing students get free tuition" is a lot better than free tuition for all.

[Nick Young]

I don't understand how this devolved into "dumb people get degrees if it's less expensive". Children of the rich, in my extensive personal experience, are incredibly lazy, entitled (obviously), and moronic. They do not provide any more intellectual value than a poor person.

Your anecdotal experience doesn't change shit.

I worked in the UK education sector for a year. I studied in a UK university for 3 years. I have already personally experienced Hillary/Bernie's "Everyone gets a college loan if they want one plan" 15 years after it was implemented.


If this shit didn't work in the UK, it won't work in the US. The answer to problems is not to throw more free shit at people. All that does is lower work ethic and foster more entitlement and laziness.


Why are lefties always advocating to lower entry standards and requirements? Things with high entry standards have them for a reason!

[Akrazotile]

I don't understand how this devolved into "dumb people get degrees if it's less expensive". Children of the rich, in my extensive personal experience, are incredibly lazy, entitled (obviously), and moronic. They do not provide any more intellectual value than a poor person.

As has been said, some form of "top ten percent of performing students get free tuition" is a lot better than free tuition for all.


Because kids right now have to weigh the idea of whether college is really going to be useful for them versus the cost of attending. Which is something they SHOULD have to weigh.

If it's free, every kid out of high school is just gonna sign up, thinking "well gee I might as well go try it since it's free, cuz then ill get a real good job like everyone says!!" Youre removing the cost-benefit calculation that SHOULD go into a decision like attending a university.

It's inviting young, naive, impressionable kids to delude themselves that they should be wasting 2-4 years of their working prime in BS gender studies classes instead of working as a mechanic, a plumber, a salesperson, an entrepreneuer, a postal worker, a policeman, and TONS of other jobs that dont require a degree. And if we stopped flooding the country with immigrants those jobs would pay even better than they do now.

Decrease the demand so that kids who do excel scholastically and want to go into select programs will have more affordable tuition. If kids cannot afford all the tuition, then there are loan programs that allow them to invest in themselves.


This is not that hard folks. But as usual, people cant THINK of any answers that dont simply boil down to "throw goverrment muney at it!!"

Thats how you know people arent thinkers. When every solution of theirs is "have the government make it free, duhh!!!"


See: deucewallace

[Nick Young]

This is not that hard folks. But as usual, people cant THINK of any answers that dont simply boil down to "throw goverrment muney at it!!"

Thats how you know people arent thinkers. When every solution of theirs is "have the government make it free, duhh!!!"


See: deucewallace
Another sign of illogical sheepism: "It works it Sweden and Norway and Switzerland doe durpadoodle duh! If they have it, we should get it too!"

[KyrieTheFuture]

Your anecdotal experience doesn't change shit.

I worked in the UK education sector for a year. I studied in a UK university for 3 years. I have already personally experienced Hillary/Bernie's "Everyone gets a college loan if they want one plan" 15 years after it was implemented.


If this shit didn't work in the UK, it won't work in the US. The answer to problems is not to throw more free shit at people. All that does is lower work ethic and foster more entitlement and laziness.


Why are lefties always advocating to lower entry standards and requirements? Things with high entry standards have them for a reason!
Do you not realize that you followed this up with your own anecdotal experience?

[Nick Young]

Do you not realize that you followed this up with your own anecdotal experience?
Of course I realized it. Trolling 101, breh:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Do you have a nice degree from an American university like our friend bladefd?

[KyrieTheFuture]

Of course I realized it. Trolling 101, breh:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Do you have a nice degree from an American university like our friend bladefd?
Truuuuuuuuuuuu.

I obviously don't disagree with you, anyone who's proud of the UK education system, college or lower, is an imbecile.

Edit: Yea, and I'm rather biased seeing as I went to a very expensive university and didn't feel it was worth it for one second during school or after graduation. I thought 70% of the classes were common sense, 25% were useless, and honestly 5% were pretty valuable but nowhere near the cost. Granted, being in the business I'm in now, I definitely understand why some people feel the need to go to business school and learn things like "your employees don't like it when you're mean"