How winnable was the 1997 finals for the Jazz?

[Nilocon165]

Karl Malone missed two free throws at the end of game 1 and those idiots let Jordan score 37 when he had the FLU.

Seemed like the momentum of the series completely shifted to them after game 4.

Not to mention the goaltend no call at the end of game 6.

[Papaya Petee]

Both the 1997 and 1998 finals were very winnable for the Jazz.

A lot of the games came down to one or two plays, game winners, defensive stops etc. Both very tight series.

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk would have made one FT minimum

Dirk would have countered MJ's shot in game 6, no wild three :bowdown:

[Lebron23]

That Jazz team really need a legit 2nd scoring option. Stockton played like a 3rd option in both series.

Malone was better in the 1998 NBA Finals despite his team losing in 6 games.

[Nilocon165]

That Jazz team really need a legit 2nd scoring option. Stockton played like a 3rd option in both series.

Malone was better in the 1998 NBA Finals despite his team losing in 6 games.
Stockton: 9.8 ppg in 98 finals.

ouch.

[ClipperRevival]

This was the same Jazz team that completely dismantled a young but ultra talented Laker team of Shaq, Kobe, Jones and Van Exel in the playoffs for 2 straight seasons. They were the Spurs before the Spurs. Never beat themselves and played team ball. You really had to beat them because they weren't going to make many mistakes.

The fact is, the Jazz could've easily won both series had some plays gone the other way. But MJ didn't let it happen. It's that simple. Close playoff games sometimes comes down to a few crucial plays here and there and MJ imposed his will on the game when it was most needed.

If you are curious about what happened, you should watch the finals review shows for both finals. Only becauses MJ won do people say he faced nobody which is like one of the dumbest arguments one can make. You are criticizing a guy for coming up when it matters most? MJ prevented other greats from becoming LEGENDS or near legendary players.

[Hey Yo]

Karl Malone missed two free throws at the end of game 1 and those idiots let Jordan score 37 when he had the FLU.

Seemed like the momentum of the series completely shifted to them after game 4.

Not to mention the goaltend no call at the end of game 6.
allegedly.......

[Hey Yo]

This was the same Jazz team that completely dismantled a young but ultra talented Laker team of Shaq, Kobe, Jones and Van Exel in the playoffs for 2 straight seasons. They were the Spurs before the Spurs. Never beat themselves and played team ball. You really had to beat them because they weren't going to make many mistakes.

The fact is, the Jazz could've easily won both series had some plays gone the other way. But MJ didn't let it happen. It's that simple. Close playoff games sometimes comes down to a few crucial plays here and there and MJ imposed his will on the game when it was most needed.

If you are curious about what happened, you should watch the finals review shows for both finals. Only becauses MJ won do people say he faced nobody which is like one of the dumbest arguments one can make. You are criticizing a guy for coming up when it matters most? MJ prevented other greats from becoming LEGENDS or near legendary players.
Kobe wasn't even a starter and didn't he air-ball like 4FGA in a row in one of those series?

No need to sensationalize him.

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe wasn't even a starter and didn't he air-ball like 4FGA in a row in one of those series?

No need to sensationalize him.

Jazz also swept the 61 win Lakers in 1997-98. A team with Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Excel, Fisher, Horry and Fox. On paper, they were much better than the Jazz but it goes back to what I said about the Jazz. They never beat themselves and out executed you. In fact, that Lakers team on paper has to be one of the more talented teams ever, at least on paper.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Not to mention the goaltend no call at the end of game 6.


I remember watching that game live back then and thinking they got jobbed a bit. Jordan would have a lot less rings if Stern wasn't in his pocket.

:coleman:

[ArbitraryWater]

Everyone on the Lakers shit the bed but Shaq... were the Jazz even better than their 80's versions?

[WayOfWad3]

1998 was more winnable in my opinion. The 97 series was up for grabs until the Bulls took Game 5 in SLC whereas the 98 series was up for grabs until the final buzzer of Game 6. I know the Jazz were favored in the rematch whereas they weren't in the initial encounter. The Jazz were literally one made/missed shot away from a very winnable game 7 at home in 98 whereas the same can't be said for 97. That being said though, Jazz had a legit shot in 1997 especially after tying it up at 2-2

[Smoke117]

They lost in 6 and Scottie Pippen was injured in both series...that shows how UNWINNABLE they both were. Scottie almost missed game 1 of that 97 finals because of the foot he would have surgery on and miss half the season in 98 for...everyone already knows how bad his back was in the last two games of the 98 finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

They lost in 6 and Scottie Pippen was injured in both series...that shows how UNWINNABLE they both were. Scottie almost missed game 1 of that 97 finals because of the foot he would have surgery on and miss half the season in 98 for...everyone already knows how bad his back was in the last two games of the 98 finals.

That's what makes '98 even more winnable for the Jazz. If they legit just make one more play at the end of Game 6, or hell if the refs don't wave off their buzzer beater at halftime they would've had Game 7 at home against the Bulls with a crippled Pippen. Jordan would've had to legit drop another 45-50 point game for the Bulls to win in that scenario

[Smoke117]

That's what makes '98 even more winnable for the Jazz. If they legit just make one more play at the end of Game 6, or hell if the refs don't wave off their buzzer beater at halftime they would've had Game 7 at home against the Bulls with a crippled Pippen. Jordan would've had to legit drop another 45-50 point game for the Bulls to win in that scenario

It's honestly pretty pathetic how bad the Jazz choked in game 6...considering what a big part Pippen played in the Bulls being up 3-1 through the first four games to begin with...he was the favorite for FMVP after the first four games because of his crazy defense and all around play. (that idiot 3ball likes to bring up his ppg in this series without any context...yeah he averaged 15 through 6 because he was hurt the last two...he averaged 20ppg on good efficiency through the first 4)

[Gotterdammerung]

The Jazz of the 1997 and the 1998 Finals were not as good as the earlier versions in the late 80s and early 90s when they had legitimate scoring options like Jeff Malone, and Stockton could play more than 40 minutes, and they had serious defensive monsters like Eaton.

It's just that the rest of the Western Conference powerhouses that dominated the 90s, declined at the same time (Portland Trailblazers, Phoenix Suns, Houston Rockets, Seattle Supersonics) leaving behind a void where a veteran team could step in. The other upcoming teams like the Spurs with a rookie Duncan or the Lakers with Shaq weren't ready yet.
:rolleyes:

[Round Mound]

The Jazz of the 1997 and the 1998 Finals were not as good as the earlier versions in the late 80s and early 90s when they had legitimate scoring options like Jeff Malone, and Stockton could play more than 40 minutes, and they had serious defensive monsters like Eaton.

It's just that the rest of the Western Conference powerhouses that dominated the 90s, declined at the same time (Portland Trailblazers, Phoenix Suns, Houston Rockets, Seattle Supersonics) leaving behind a void where a veteran team could step in. The other upcoming teams like the Spurs with a rookie Duncan or the Lakers with Shaq weren't ready yet.
:rolleyes:

This

[ScalsFan21]

Still, those series were possibly the best example of what Jordan's greatness could really do to decide series that went down to the wire so often. Just having him was such a huge mental edge down the stretch.

Those Jazz teams really weren't anywhere near as great as some fans' revisionist history would have you believe so I'm honestly a bit surprised the Bulls let both series get to the point they did, but as far as Jordan's career I think his absolute greatest moments (and push-offs) were on display there.

[Stringer Bell]

1998 was more winnable for Utah due to Home Court Advantage, having the deeper bench (Brian Willams/Bison Dele was a very good addition in 1997), and Scottie Pippen's health. Pippen had been questionable for game 1 in 1997, as said earlier, then we went out and played a great game, putting up 27 and 9. When he was hurt in 1998, he could barely move in game 6. He took some rough charges, especially the one from Failman in transition in game 3. He reminded me of the early 90s Larry Bird with limited mobility, bad back pain, noticeably having trouble just running down the court.

You wouldn't think the Jazz had a better chance in 1998 than 1997 after game 3, when they were destroyed 96-54. It was so unexpected since the majority of the 12 games went down to the wire. 8 or 9 of the 12 games they played pretty much went down to the wire. But things changed, and Utah won game 5 in Chicago, avoiding elimination, to go back to Utah for the last 2 games. This was a similar scenario to 1993, when the Bulls failed to close out at home in game 5, then had to go back to Phoenix for the last 2 scheduled games.

Another comparison is how well Malone had been playing in games 5 and 6 of the 1998 Finals. Rodman wasn't playing as well in 1998 as he was the previous 2 postseasons, and Malone had dominated game 5 and was having an excellent game 6 before that memorable steal by Jordan. Rodman was having more success defensively against Malone in 1997 than 1998.

Jordan was dead-tired in game 6. I remember watching him in the 4th quarter having to work hard to get shots, while Malone's came so easy. He just set a pick, Stockton got it to him, and he was wide open and made a jumper. It was a huge comparison in energy expended. Before the final 42 seconds, Jordan had missed 13 of his last 17 shots, a number of them jumpers he was coming up short on. Tex Winter told Phil Jackson that Jordan's legs were gone.

Utah had a badly compromised Pippen, Jordan running on fumes, but they weren't able to take advantage and force a game 7. They did get screwed on those shot clock calls when Eisley and Harper took those shots. I don't know why it took them so long to be able to use replays in these situations.

Game 7 would have been something else, I don't know who to pick. It was at Utah, Pippen was hurt, but it's really hard to pick against Jordan, even with those things favoring Utah.

[ClipperRevival]

The Jazz of the 1997 and the 1998 Finals were not as good as the earlier versions in the late 80s and early 90s when they had legitimate scoring options like Jeff Malone, and Stockton could play more than 40 minutes, and they had serious defensive monsters like Eaton.

It's just that the rest of the Western Conference powerhouses that dominated the 90s, declined at the same time (Portland Trailblazers, Phoenix Suns, Houston Rockets, Seattle Supersonics) leaving behind a void where a veteran team could step in. The other upcoming teams like the Spurs with a rookie Duncan or the Lakers with Shaq weren't ready yet.
:rolleyes:

You can't judge a team strictly on paper. The late 90's Jazz might've had less talent than the late 80's/early 90's Jazz but they were the better TEAM. The pieces fit better and their execution was amazing.

And while I will agree that the WC was very strong from 1990-1995, the Sonics won 60+ games in both 1997 and 1998, and fresh off the finals loss in 1996. Kemp/Payton at their peak. 1997 also had a Rockets team of Hakeem, Barkley and Drexler that won 56 games. Yes, past their primes but they weren't a pushover. Not to mention, the young but ultra talented Laker team that won 56 and 61 games in 1997 and 1998.

The Jazz proved their class by making 2 straight finals and pushing MJs Bulls in both finals.

[Old Man River]

Karl Malone missed two free throws at the end of game 1 and those idiots let Jordan score 37 when he had the FLU.

Seemed like the momentum of the series completely shifted to them after game 4.

Not to mention the goaltend no call at the end of game 6.
jordan was hungover as ****

[Old Man River]

It's honestly pretty pathetic how bad the Jazz choked in game 6...considering what a big part Pippen played in the Bulls being up 3-1 through the first four games to begin with...he was the favorite for FMVP after the first four games because of his crazy defense and all around play. (that idiot 3ball likes to bring up his ppg in this series without any context...yeah he averaged 15 through 6 because he was hurt the last two...he averaged 20ppg on good efficiency through the first 4)
Pippen had the ease of guarding no offense Ostertag.

[warriorfan]

It's honestly pretty pathetic how bad the Jazz choked in game 6...considering what a big part Pippen played in the Bulls being up 3-1 through the first four games to begin with...he was the favorite for FMVP after the first four games because of his crazy defense and all around play. (that idiot 3ball likes to bring up his ppg in this series without any context...yeah he averaged 15 through 6 because he was hurt the last two...he averaged 20ppg on good efficiency through the first 4)

Yes, just like Stephen Curry in the 2016 Finals

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The major MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production

[ClipperRevival]

They lost in 6 and Scottie Pippen was injured in both series...that shows how UNWINNABLE they both were. Scottie almost missed game 1 of that 97 finals because of the foot he would have surgery on and miss half the season in 98 for...everyone already knows how bad his back was in the last two games of the 98 finals.

Or this just proves MJ's greatness? 2nd best player on the team limited and MJ puts the team on his back and LITERALLY carries that offense and wills his team to win both series?

[Sarcastic]

The 90s Jazz were definitely better than the 80s Jazz because they were coached by Sloan, and not Frank Layden.

[SecondTake]

Yes, just like Stephen Curry in the 2016 Finals

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The major MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production

You're shittin' me right? 2015 was a mega choke job for curry who got outplayed by a bench player. Yeah he put up good efficiency in garbage time, whoop de doo.

[diamenz]

the jazz were probably the best team that jordan faced in the finals. veteran players and had their shit together as a team to a tee.

thats series was a complete chess match to the fullest.

[theaussieguy]

This was the same Jazz team that completely dismantled a young but ultra talented Laker team of Shaq, Kobe, Jones and Van Exel in the playoffs for 2 straight seasons. They were the Spurs before the Spurs. Never beat themselves and played team ball. You really had to beat them because they weren't going to make many mistakes.

The fact is, the Jazz could've easily won both series had some plays gone the other way. But MJ didn't let it happen. It's that simple. Close playoff games sometimes comes down to a few crucial plays here and there and MJ imposed his will on the game when it was most needed.

If you are curious about what happened, you should watch the finals review shows for both finals. Only becauses MJ won do people say he faced nobody which is like one of the dumbest arguments one can make. You are criticizing a guy for coming up when it matters most? MJ prevented other greats from becoming LEGENDS or near legendary players.

good question from OP, good response

[ArbitraryWater]

The Jazz of the 1997 and the 1998 Finals were not as good as the earlier versions in the late 80s and early 90s when they had legitimate scoring options like Jeff Malone, and Stockton could play more than 40 minutes, and they had serious defensive monsters like Eaton.

It's just that the rest of the Western Conference powerhouses that dominated the 90s, declined at the same time (Portland Trailblazers, Phoenix Suns, Houston Rockets, Seattle Supersonics) leaving behind a void where a veteran team could step in. The other upcoming teams like the Spurs with a rookie Duncan or the Lakers with Shaq weren't ready yet.
:rolleyes:

and you know what? Those Jazz might still have been the best team MJ ever faced lol

thats sad

Bron out here beating the GOAT Spurs, Warriors, and uber stacked Thunder...

[Young X]

and you know what? Those Jazz might still have been the best team MJ ever faced lol

thats sad

Bron out here beating the GOAT Spurs, Warriors, and uber stacked Thunder...There's nothing "sad" about a team with the:

#2 all-time leading scorer and 2x MVP
#1 all-time assists and steals player
HOF coach

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

and you know what? Those Jazz might still have been the best team MJ ever faced lol

thats sad

Bron out here beating the GOAT Spurs, Warriors, and uber stacked Thunder...

Even if that were the case (all arguable by the way), Jordan is still considered the better and superior player. :confusedshrug:

I mean, are we REALLY gonna act like Mike wouldn't ruin the Spurs, Thunder and Warriors? Especially the Spurs who his light-weight verz, Kobe, routintely destroyed in his prime.

[FireDavidKahn]

None. They were up against Jordan.

[ArbitraryWater]

Even if that were the case (all arguable by the way), Jordan is still considered the better and superior player. :confusedshrug:

I mean, are we REALLY gonna act like Mike wouldn't ruin the Spurs, Thunder and Warriors? Especially the Spurs who his light-weight verz, Kobe, routintely destroyed in his prime.

Not talking about the early TD/retirement D-Rob or '08 Spurs, talking about the GOAT Spurs, the '12-'14 versions...


Nah, considering Bron's 16 finals is better than any of MJ's, I dont believe he'd beat a 73 win team. And the sheer statistical volume of Bron's 15 series? Hard to copy.

[ClipperRevival]

Consider this. Series was tied 2-2, with home teams protecting HCA in the first 4 games. But also consider the fact that MJ hit the game winner in game 1 where Malone choked 2 fts. If Malone makes just one ft and MJ misses the game winning attempt as time expires, Utah is up 3-1 heading into game 5.

But as it stands, it was 2-2. And MJ suffered from flu like symptoms heading into game 5, with Utah having won 2 straight. Most anticipated Utah would win and go up 3-2. And they looked like the better team, leading for most of the game and having 10+ point leads several times. Then MJ turned it on and literally willed his team to a win. Scoring 38 points, including the game winning 3 with seconds left.

And to top it off, in the close out game in game 6, he added 39 more points.

Jazz could've EASILY won this series if MJ didn't play like a GOAT and make huge buckets when they were most needed.

[WADE MONEY]

1998 was more winnable for Utah due to Home Court Advantage, having the deeper bench (Brian Willams/Bison Dele was a very good addition in 1997)

Brian Williams was on the Bulls, not Jazz

[Stringer Bell]

Brian Williams was on the Bulls, not Jazz

Yeah, that's what I meant, 1998 was more winnable for the Jazz because of a better bench, in 1997 the Bulls had Williams off the bench who was a good addition. Should have phrased it better.

[dankok8]

Bulls won more games in the regular season (69 vs 64) despite Rodman missing lots of games, had a higher SRS (10.70 vs 7.97), and were the defending champs. Going into the series the Bulls had to be considered solid favorites.

Game 1 was close and Jordan had that awesome Flu Game but you can't look at a playoff series in a linear fashion. If Malone doesn't choke the free throws and win Game 1, maybe the Bulls run off four straight?!?

1998 was more winnable for the Jazz although even then most metrics point to the Bulls being superior.

[bond10]

The flu helped Jordan. Would YOU want to guard someone with the flu? They probably didn't even want to touch the same ball as that guy.