Lebron James has never Won a Ring Without 2 other Superstars in their Primes [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 10:42 AM

An undisputable fact: Lebron was never able to win a championship without having at least 2 other superstar players in their primes on his team. Jordan has. Hakeem has. Dirk has. Wade has. Kobe has. Shaq has. All the great players in the top 10 have at least once.

It's easy to win rings when you have 3 guys on your team capable of dropping 40/10 every night. Lebron is the only player in league history that has needed that luxury to win championships. Frankly, having played with an unprecedented amount of superstar players on the same team, I'm surprised Lebron doesn't have 7 rings by now.

That's why Lebron is not top 10 of all time. Players in the top 10 have set the standard by winning at least 1 championship with just 1 other superstar player in his prime. Lebron will go down as a great player because of his stats, but there's one thing he could never accomplish that all the top 10 greats have. Lebron could never win the championship without 2 other superstar players in their primes.

stalkerforlife

07-10-2016, 10:44 AM

An undisputable fact. Lebron was never able to win a championship without having at least 2 other superstar players in their primes on his team. Jordan has. Hakeem has. Dirk has. Wade has. Kobe has. Shaq has. All the great players in the top 10 have at least once.

It's pretty easy to win rings when you have 3 guys on your team capable of dropping 40/10 every night. Lebron is the only player in league history that has needed that luxury to win championships. Frankly, having played with an unprecedented amount of superstar players on the same team, I'm surprised Lebron doesn't have 7 rings by now.

That's why Lebron is not top 10 of all time. Those players in the top 10 have set the standard by winning at least 1 championship with just 1 other superstar player in his prime. Lebron will go down as a great player no doubt because of his stats, but there's one thing he could never accomplish that all the top 10 greats have. Lebron could never win the championship without 2 other superstar players in their primes.

Bran is a coward and all the manipulation by the NBA doesn't change that.

July 8th, 2010.
July 11th, 2014.

Those two dates and the NBA's manipulation define him more than anything.

LBJ 23

07-10-2016, 10:53 AM

top 5 > 12th

https://media.giphy.com/media/3in5HNB71gZvq/giphy.gif

K Xerxes

07-10-2016, 10:56 AM

Love with that 9-7-1 superstar finals statline :bowdown:

How great is LeBron that out of SIX superstars in the finals (himself, Kyrie, Love, Curry, Klay and Draymond), he led ALL of them in ALL major statistical categories culminating in his third unanimous FMVP?

Surely greater than Kobe.

PistonsFan#21

07-10-2016, 11:00 AM

Bran is a coward and all the manipulation by the NBA doesn't change that.

July 8th, 2010.
July 11th, 2014.

Those two dates and the NBA's manipulation define him more than anything.

what happened to your 2/7 jokes?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3in5HNB71gZvq/giphy.gif

LBJ 23

07-10-2016, 11:02 AM

How great is LeBron that out of SIX superstars in the finals (himself, Kyrie, Love, Curry, Klay and Draymond), he led ALL of them in ALL major statistical categories culminating in his third unanimous FMVP?

So well said.

When you actually look at it, people say that Lebron is jack of all trades, master of none. You have elite scorers in Curry, Irving and Klay. You have ''elite rebounder'' in Love and Thompson and elite versatile/hustle player in Green yet Lebron still comes on top in every statistical category. Incredible.

He's actually a jack of all trades and master of them all at the same time :eek:

Nike D'Antoni

07-10-2016, 11:09 AM

Wade nowhere near his prime after 2011.And Bosh who scored 0 points in game 7 vs San Antonio?hahahahaha.

retaxis

07-10-2016, 11:17 AM

What Stalker is back?

He was probably on his alts the whole time anyway...

This is why no one ever respects anyone on the net...because its filled with people who say one thing, do another and have hypocrite stamped on their head.

Stalker...Lebron is a better man and he won. You lost and you scurried your way back. What more is there to say man?

Spaulding

07-10-2016, 11:20 AM

ScalsFan21

07-10-2016, 11:27 AM

stalkerforlife

07-10-2016, 11:38 AM

I'll be honest, I don't think Stalker would ever use an alt. Some posters I just can't see it. I don't know how you guys even get alts activated, I tried for so long to get one account activated and it never happened until I remembered I made this one years ago. :lol

I have no alts. I tried to make one once after I got permanently banned for supporting Kobe, but it never got activated.

These Bransvestites are just grasping at straws in an attempt to save their hero.

I never said I would leave this board forever; I said i'd never concern myself with the NBA going forward because it's obviously fixed.

CakeorDeath

07-10-2016, 12:02 PM

Kevin Love had four chances this year to make the All-Star game and didn't. Fans didn't vote him in, coaches didn't vote him in, commish needed two subs and didn't vote him in.

That doesn't happen to superstars.

Nilocon165

07-10-2016, 12:02 PM

I have no alts. I tried to make one once after I got permanently banned for supporting Kobe, but it never got activated.

These Bransvestites are just grasping at straws in an attempt to save their hero.

I never said I would leave this board forever; I said i'd never concern myself with the NBA going forward because it's obviously fixed.
Yet here you are, bitching about it like usual.

Grow up dude.

K.dot ShowTime

07-10-2016, 12:16 PM

Bran is a coward and all the manipulation by the NBA doesn't change that.

July 8th, 2010.
July 11th, 2014.

Those two dates and the NBA's manipulation define him more than anything.

Shut up bitch LeBron is GOAT

RRR3

07-10-2016, 12:46 PM

Wade was injured a lot in 2012 and his game was affected. He wasn't in his prime in 2013. Bosh isn't a superstar. Love put up superstar stats, but he's certainly not doing well with the Cavs (relatively speaking). Kyrie was averaging 21/4/6 on 43% on a 33 win team the year before LBJ returned to Cleveland. "Superstar" doe :roll: Kemba Walker is a superstar by that logic. Kyrie played like a superstar in the playoffs, under LeBron's guidance of course :pimp: (jk real Cavs fans)

tmacattack33

07-10-2016, 12:47 PM

Bosh was out in 2012.

Love was no super-star and couldn't even stay on the court longer than 25 minutes per game against Golden State without becoming a defensive liability.

Terrible thread.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 12:48 PM

Let's not forget LeBron won a ring with his 2nd and 3rd options averaging 16 and 12 PPG. So much help! :eek:

MP.Trey

07-10-2016, 12:49 PM

Dude said Bosh and Love are capable of 40/10 any night. :roll:

Wade and Irving would even have a EXTREMELY hard time trying to pull that off in the playoffs.

SpaceJam

07-10-2016, 12:53 PM

Dude said Bosh and Love are capable of 40/10 any night. :roll:

Wade and Irving would even have a EXTREMELY hard time trying to pull that off in the playoffs.

Love only done it 10 times in Minny

Bosh only done it 5 in Toronto

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude is a clown

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 12:54 PM

Wade was injured a lot in 2012 and his game was affected. He wasn't in his prime in 2013. Bosh isn't a superstar. Love put up superstar stats, but he's certainly not doing well with the Cavs (relatively speaking). Kyrie was averaging 21/4/6 on 43% on a 33 win team the year before LBJ returned to Cleveland. "Superstar" doe :roll: Kemba Walker is a superstar by that logic. Kyrie played like a superstar in the playoffs, under LeBron's guidance of course :pimp: (jk real Cavs fans)

What a stupid example. Kemba Walker never even made the all star game even playing for the weak eastern conferencein his entire career.

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 12:55 PM

Dude said Bosh and Love are capable of 40/10 any night. :roll:

Wade and Irving would even have a EXTREMELY hard time trying to pull that off in the playoffs.

Go look up how many times Bosh and Love have put up 40/10. Did you start watching basketball in 2012? :facepalm

SouBeachTalents

07-10-2016, 01:00 PM

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 01:09 PM

LeBron had superstar help twice, Wade in 2011 & Kyrie this years playoffs. Besides that he had a Wade who declined every year they played together, and there's no way you could call Bosh/Love/Kyrie superstars when they missed the playoffs 14/16 seasons with 3 playoff wins COMBINED before joining LeBron

Bosh, Wade, Love and Irving were all respectively the franchise players on their teams. They have all been top 5 in their respective positions before Lebron. Just count the number of all Star appearances they've made. All of the above makes them superstar players no doubt.

No need for you Lebron stans to rewrite history. Lebron has only won a championship because he's played with 2 other superstar players on their primes. He has never shown that he could win a ring in the NBA with just one other superstar player on his roster. Keep them excuses coming though.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 01:11 PM

Kyrie was a top 5 PG before LeBron? :roll:

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 01:19 PM

Kyrie was a top 5 PG before LeBron? :roll:

Yup. Go educate yourself on the history of the game outside of Lebron.

Top 5 PG before the last two seasons (not in order)

Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook
John Wall
Steph Curry
Kyrie Irving

MP.Trey

07-10-2016, 01:24 PM

Love only done it 10 times in Minny

Bosh only done it 5 in Toronto

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude is a clown
Love in Minnesota - 40/10 in 10/364 games. 0 with Cleveland. 0 in the playoffs.

Bosh in Toronto - 40/10 in 5/509 games. 0 with Miami. 0 in the playoffs.

Sorry, they're not capable of doing that "any night" in the playoffs.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 01:34 PM

What a stupid example. Kemba Walker never even made the all star game even playing for the weak eastern conferencein his entire career.
Kyrie Irving in 2013-14 (the year before LeBron returned to Cleveland): 35.2 MPG, 20.8 PPG, 3.6 RPG, 6.1 APG, 1.5 SPG, 0.3 BPG, 2.3 TOV on .430/.358/.861 shooting. His team won 33 games.

Kemba Walker in 2015-16: 35.6 MPG, 20.9 PPG, 4.4 RPG, 5.2 APG, 1.6 SPG, 0.5 BPG, 2.1 TOV on .427/.371/.847 shooting. His team won 48 games.

Shut up and go sit in the corner.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 01:41 PM

I suppose Kyrie was possibly a top 5 PG in 2014, but he was certainly behind the big 3 (WB CP3 ZVC) and Wall. Goran Dragic had a better season than Kyrie that year for ****'s sake. Dragic is shit now, but I'm just saying. Also Damian Lillard has an argument. Then there are guys like Mike Conley, Ty Lawson, Tony Parker, and Isaiah Thomas (scoff if you like, he had very similar stats. Also on a bad team).

Having two teammates who are top 5 at their respective positions is hardly unprecedented. Kobe had Gasol and Bynum, who were both top 5 at their positions at certain points in their careers. Durant had WB and Harden. KG had Ray and PP. Duncan had TP and Manu. CP3 has Blake and DJ (arguably top 5). KAJ had Magic and Worthy. Bird had Parish and McHale. etc. etc.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 01:53 PM

The Phoenix Suns had 3 players who were top 5 at their positions back in the D'Antoni days, for crying out loud. I would imagine the Run-TMC Warriors at least had an argument for meeting this criteria as well, and they weren't even successful. Wilt, Jerry West, Baylor, Goodrich. Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere, Earl Monroe, Willis Reed (later Jerry Lucas). Kareem, Big O, Bobby Dandridge. Dirk, Nash, Finley. Steph, Klay, Dray.

Even if Kyrie WAS top 5 at PG in 2014, the fact remains that he put up statistics that are hardly worthy of being called a "superstar" (nearly identical to last year's Kemba Walker in fact) and his team was poor. In his defense, he was young and had poor help. So we shouldn't slam Kyrie for that or use it against him. But that doesn't mean he was a superstar either. I don't think Kyrie was even considered a top 5 PG this year until the playoffs.

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 04:17 PM

I suppose Kyrie was possibly a top 5 PG in 2014, but he was certainly behind the big 3 (WB CP3 ZVC) and Wall.

So after laughing about Kyrie Irving being a top 5 PG, you went ahead and admitted he was a top 5 PG. Who's laughing now? :roll:

Having two teammates who are top 5 at their respective positions is hardly unprecedented. Kobe had Gasol and Bynum, who were both top 5 at their positions at certain points in their careers. Durant had WB and Harden. KG had Ray and PP. Duncan had TP and Manu. CP3 has Blake and DJ (arguably top 5). KAJ had Magic and Worthy. Bird had Parish and McHale. etc. etc.

Oh but there's a difference between having two other top 5 positional players and having two other top 5 positional players who have already proven themselves to be the best player on their respective teams. Bynum, Ginobili, DJ, Parish, Mchale, Worthy were never the best players on ANY team. Keep reaching dude.

lilteapot

07-10-2016, 04:19 PM

Kevin Love played like shit this series and didnt even play in a game.

Kyrie isn't in his prime yet.

So it seems like you're wrong again OP.

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 04:24 PM

lilteapot

07-10-2016, 04:27 PM

Kevin Love played like shit this series and didnt even play in a game.

Kyrie isn't in his prime yet.

So it seems like you're wrong again OP.

GrapeApe

07-10-2016, 04:35 PM

Nah. Lebron stans just can't admit to themselves. They have never seen Lebron win without 2 other superstar players in their primes on his team. No top 10 great player needed that luxury.

Keep living in denial though. Let me know if Lebron ever wins a ring with just one other superstar player in his prime on his team.

Wade in 2013 was not in his prime. Even if you want to argue that he was still a superstar, he was injured in the playoffs so it's irrelevant. Bosh has never been a superstar. An all-star yes, but not a superstar.

Irving and Love aren't superstars either for that matter. Irving may be approaching that level, but he's never even made an all-NBA team.

The only years that Lebron had a legit superstar teammate were 2011 and 2012.

midatlantic09

07-10-2016, 04:41 PM

Kevin Love is NOT a superstar. In fact, he was downright awful in the playoffs and looked like a fringe starter most of the time.

Sure, on paper, you can say Lebron had 2 other all-stars, but the Kevin Love from 3-4 years ago was NOT the Kevin Love that appeared in the playoffs. What'd he average...8 points and 5 boards?? lol C'mon...everyone knows the playoffs were the Lebron & Kyrie Show.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 06:41 PM

So after laughing about Kyrie Irving being a top 5 PG, you went ahead and admitted he was a top 5 PG. Who's laughing now? :roll:

Oh but there's a difference between having two other top 5 positional players and having two other top 5 positional players who have already proven themselves to be the best player on their respective teams. Bynum, Ginobili, DJ, Parish, Mchale, Worthy were never the best players on ANY team. Keep reaching dude.
I said Kyrie MIGHT have been top 5 in 2014, I didn

BallsOut

07-10-2016, 06:46 PM

[QUOTE=RRR3]I said Kyrie MIGHT have been top 5 in 2014, I didn

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 06:49 PM

RRR3

07-10-2016, 06:52 PM

A Lebron stan calling someone else a coward? Oh the irony :lebronamazed:

Get back to me when Lebron doesn't cowardly collude to join 2 other superstars in their primes to win a championship.
I believe I proved Kyrie wasn't a superstar in his prime :confusedshrug:

Unless you think Kemba Walker is a superstar in his prime?

RRR3

07-10-2016, 06:53 PM

Kevin Love is a superstar

Kevin Love pre-LeBron put up 26/12.5/4.4/on 59% TS

Here is a list of players who have achieved that feat

https://s32.postimg.org/g9918d2pf/Kevin_Love_Ho_F.png

The only players who have ever managed to do it is Kevin Love and Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar

It's pretty safe to say that Kevin Love pre-LeBron was a superstar

Coincidentally Kevin Love stopped performing at a superstar level as soon as he started playing with LeBron

Coincidentally this is the exact thing that happened when Chris Bosh played with LeBron

Therefore we can determine that LeBron-Ball has a diminishing effect on his teammates effectiveness, lowering the potential of his team below the actual level of the team's true talent
If "LeBron ball" caused Love to stop being a superstar, why do you still use the "LeBron needed the help of two superstars" argument? Are you retarded?

Springsteen

07-10-2016, 06:54 PM

It's pretty safe to say that Kevin Love pre-LeBron was a superstar

Coincidentally Kevin Love stopped performing at a superstar level as soon as he started playing with LeBron

Coincidentally this is the exact thing that happened when Chris Bosh played with LeBron

Therefore we can determine that LeBron-Ball has a diminishing effect on his teammates effectiveness, lowering the potential of his team below the actual level of the team's true talent

Remind me again how many times superstar Kevin Love with Kareem-worthy statistics made the playoffs in Minnesota with him as the man?

34-24 Footwork

07-10-2016, 06:56 PM

Lol. This is hilarious. At one point, Kyrie was arguably the best player in the playoffs.

He was the go to player on Cleveland for the majority of the finals.

A month later....

"He's ok. Still needs to develop".

The saga continues....

Prometheus

07-10-2016, 07:00 PM

Warriorfan jacked a lot of 3ball's posting style.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:01 PM

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 07:04 PM

Remind me again how many times superstar Kevin Love with Kareem-worthy statistics made the playoffs in Minnesota with him as the man?

It seems to me that you are not familiar with the Minnesota teams of 2012 through 2014. Go ahead and look over their rosters and you should get the answer to your question.

Good luck

GrapeApe

07-10-2016, 07:05 PM

Kevin Love is a superstar

Kevin Love pre-LeBron put up 26/12.5/4.4/on 59% TS

Here is a list of players who have achieved that feat

https://s32.postimg.org/g9918d2pf/Kevin_Love_Ho_F.png

The only players who have ever managed to do it is Kevin Love and Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar

It's pretty safe to say that Kevin Love pre-LeBron was a superstar

Coincidentally Kevin Love stopped performing at a superstar level as soon as he started playing with LeBron

Coincidentally this is the exact thing that happened when Chris Bosh played with LeBron

Therefore we can determine that LeBron-Ball has a diminishing effect on his teammates effectiveness, lowering the potential of his team below the actual level of the team's true talent

How many times did Love make the playoffs before going to the Cavs? I would think a superstar would at least be able to lead his team to playoffs.

Also, how many 3rd options put up the same numbers as when they were 1st options? Love and Bosh both had a dip in their production when they joined a team with 2 better players. Crazy.

tpols

07-10-2016, 07:07 PM

I believe I proved Kyrie wasn't a superstar in his prime :confusedshrug:

Unless you think Kemba Walker is a superstar in his prime?

kyrie had just come off a FIBA debut for Team USA where he was the best player in a field of all NBA caliber guys.. anthony davis, steph curry, cousins, harden etc .. he single handidly blew the championship game open w/ a 15 point first quarter explosion to put it away pretty much.

http://i.giphy.com/D8IiLT6oADD9K.gif
---------->link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLrNqvqv2Rg)

6/6 from 3 as well .. on a world stage chock full of MVP caliber players, kyrie was the most devastating.

stop being a pathetic stan and equating him to kemba walker .. his ability far supercedes kemba's.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:10 PM

kyrie had just come off a FIBA debut for Team USA where he was the best player in a field of all NBA caliber guys.. anthony davis, steph curry, cousins, harden etc .. he single handidly blew the championship game open w/ a 15 point first quarter explosion to put it away pretty much.

http://i.giphy.com/D8IiLT6oADD9K.gif
---------->link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLrNqvqv2Rg)

6/6 from 3 as well .. on a world stage chock full of MVP caliber players, kyrie was the most devastating.

stop being a pathetic stan and equating him to kemba walker .. his ability far supercedes kemba's.
Vassilis Spanoulis and Carlos Arroyo had big moments in the olympics :oldlol:

I'm not equating current Kyrie to Kemba Walker. I'm saying that 2014 Kyrie and 2016 Walker had extremely similar seasons statistically, except Walker's team won 15 more games and made the playoffs. When you can debunk FACTS, let me know. Until then, shush.

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 07:11 PM

If "LeBron ball" caused Love to stop being a superstar, why do you still use the "LeBron needed the help of two superstars" argument? Are you retarded?

Kevin Love was a superstar the year before he played with LeBron, fact

Chris Bosh was a superstar the year before he played with LeBron, fact

Therefore LeBron played with superstar Power Forwards during both championships

tpols

07-10-2016, 07:15 PM

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 07:18 PM

How many times did Love make the playoffs before going to the Cavs? I would think a superstar would at least be able to lead his team to playoffs.

Also, how many 3rd options put up the same numbers as when they were 1st options? Love and Bosh both had a dip in their production when they joined a team with 2 better players. Crazy.

I know you are an Eastern Conference fan but it is a lot tougher to make the playoffs out here in the West. That compounded by the toxic situation in Minnesota. Kurt Rambis...David Kahn as the GM picking 2 PG's and passing Steph Curry for Ricky Rubio and Johnny Flyn...That franchise was a total mess. Even Kevin Love putting up historic performances couldn't take that shit show to Western Conference playoffs.

GrapeApe

07-10-2016, 07:18 PM

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:21 PM

and kyrie has proven to be better than arroyo or spanoulis have ever been .. both in worlds, NBA, etc. he had flashes of clutch brilliance even in his first couple years.. you make some dumb ass arguments dude. Stick to simple trolling lol.
What do Kyrie's accomplishments with LeBron have a teammate have to do with anything? :wtf: Coming from the same people who rate Bosh and Love solely by what they did pre-LeBron, we can't do the same with Kyrie because he's been better WITH LeBron? :oldlol: Keep moving goalposts.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:22 PM

If you never even make the playoffs, you're not a superstar. Period. Love was not and is not a superstar.

Bosh has made a grand total of ONE all-NBA team in his career (3rd team).

In any given season there's only a handful of superstars in the league. Love and Bosh have never been a part of that group.
Love was considered a superstar by a lot of people. Kyrie wasn't. Wade was obviously a superstar. Bosh is really good but not a superstar.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:23 PM

Kevin Love was a superstar the year before he played with LeBron, fact

Chris Bosh was a superstar the year before he played with LeBron, fact

Therefore LeBron played with superstar Power Forwards during both championships
Yes, but he turned them into role players, remember?

Therefore, LeBron won championships with role players at power forward! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

tpols

07-10-2016, 07:25 PM

What do Kyrie's accomplishments with LeBron have a teammate have to do with anything? :wtf: Coming from the same people who rate Bosh and Love solely by what they did pre-LeBron, we can't do the same with Kyrie because he's been better WITH LeBron? :oldlol: Keep moving goalposts.

what? I just showed you an example of kyrie lighting it up w/o bron, before Bron played w/ him.. your rebuttal was to equate him Kyrie to carlos arroyo lol. You're a clown.

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 07:26 PM

Yes, but he turned them into role players, remember?

Therefore, LeBron won championships with role players at power forward! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Kevin Love plays like a Superstar in 2014

In 2015 Kevin Love joins LeBron and his effectiveness is reduced

So did Kevin Love just fall off a cliff in 2015 or did it have something to do with playing with LeBron? Does Love having his statistical output lowered make it so that he is still not a superstar talent?

TheWinningFam

07-10-2016, 07:26 PM

Yes, but he turned them into role players, remember?

Therefore, LeBron won championships with role players at power forward! :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Exactly, these idiots try to claim he turns them into role players, but then in another argument says that hes playing with all stars, you cant have it both ways which is it?

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:28 PM

what? I just showed you an example of kyrie lighting it up w/o bron, before Bron played w/ him.. your rebuttal was to equate him Kyrie to carlos arroyo lol. You're a clown.
Kyrie was a good player before LeBron joined him? You don't say :lol

Of course he was good. You'd have trouble making good argument that he was a superstar though. Unless Kemba is right now? I didn't compare him to Arroyo :facepalm I was pointing out your argument that playing well in the olympics makes you a superstar is beyond stupid

kuniva_dAMiGhTy

07-10-2016, 07:30 PM

Who cares?

He's still better than BOTH Curry and Kobe. No amount of excuses will change this indisputable FACT. :confusedshrug:

GrapeApe

07-10-2016, 07:34 PM

Love was considered a superstar by a lot of people. Kyrie wasn't. Wade was obviously a superstar. Bosh is really good but not a superstar.

Anyone who considered Love a superstar was basing it 100% on numbers. He's never had superstar impact at any point in his career and he didn't even try to defend in Minnesota. I think Bosh was closer to being a superstar because he was his team's best player on both ends.

tpols

07-10-2016, 07:35 PM

Kyrie was a good player before LeBron joined him? You don't say :lol

Of course he was good. You'd have trouble making good argument that he was a superstar though. Unless Kemba is right now? I didn't compare him to Arroyo :facepalm I was pointing out your argument that playing well in the olympics makes you a superstar is beyond stupid

I used the FIBA performance as an example of the brilliance Kyrie was capable of amongst his superstar peers. And of course we saw that brilliance bleed over into the future, thus confirming it not a fluke.. you're just digging your hole further and further .. lol. It's like arguing with a small, dumb child. Wise up.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 07:42 PM

I used the FIBA performance as an example of the brilliance Kyrie was capable of amongst his superstar peers. And of course we saw that brilliance bleed over into the future, thus confirming it not a fluke.. you're just digging your hole further and further .. lol. It's like arguing with a small, dumb child. Wise up.
First of all FIBA=/= NBA. Or melo would be much more highly regarded. Secondly being capable of playing like a superstar doesn't mean you are one. Kemba looked like a superstar a few games against the Heat.

For someone making such weak arguments your arrogance is astounding

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 07:43 PM

You are bringing up 2014 Kyrie stats into this for some reason when that is not reflective of his time playing now

2014 he was 21 years old...well before his prime

Kyrie is a whole new player than he was in 2016 compared to 2014 because the jump in play from age 21 to 23 is large

The jump is far less dramatic from age 25 to 27 as used in the Kevin Love example, that is when players are already well into their prime

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:02 PM

warriorfan

07-10-2016, 08:05 PM

How are you so dense as to not understand why I'm bringing up 2014 Kyrie?

You're using what Love did BEFORE LeBron to argue he was a superstar

You're using what Kyrie did AFTER LeBron to argue he's a superstar.

I'll ask again: are you retarded?

Your example if using what Kyrie did before LeBron is invalid considering Kyrie at only age 21 was well before his prime in 2014

Using Kevin Love's data from 2014 is much more accurate considering Love was 25 years old at the time, already into his prime

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:09 PM

You are assuming Kyrie becomes a superstar. That isn't a fact although I think he will. Regardless that doesn't mean he's been a superstar with LeBron so far. Although he did have a superstar playoff run this year, he hasn't cemented himself as a true superstar yet.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:28 PM

Milbuck

07-10-2016, 08:31 PM

Also, just throwing together "superstars" doesn't mean you'll be the best team. Let's say we give prime Kobe prime T-Mac and prime Allen Iverson. The rest of the team is a bunch of filler ala the big 3 Heat. You think that team is winning shit? :lol
Yes? Prime Kobe and prime T-Mac are taking a steaming taco bell AM crunchwrap shit on the league. Just kill AI in training camp and hold the trophy in June.

TomCat

07-10-2016, 08:33 PM

Also, just throwing together "superstars" doesn't mean you'll be the best team. Let's say we give prime Kobe prime T-Mac and prime Allen Iverson. The rest of the team is a bunch of filler ala the big 3 Heat. You think that team is winning shit? :lol

Kobe and Tmac would win night in night out.

They don't even need AI. Get someone like Elden Campbell, anthony mason, and derek fisher and its a 3 peat

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:39 PM

Wait, so you guys are getting rid of AI because you agree he TMac and Kobe wouldn't work? :lol

How does that disprove what I said?

I said all 3 not the 2 best of the 3

Milbuck

07-10-2016, 08:41 PM

Wait, so you guys are getting rid of AI because you agree he TMac and Kobe wouldn't work? :lol

How does that disprove what I said?

I said all 3 not the 2 best of the 3
They'd still win all the rings, honestly. That's just way too much firepower.

Unless you have some trash ass coach and complete scrubs from 4-15.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:43 PM

T-Mac Kobe and AI together? In what universe is that a good fit? :biggums:

If their supporting cast is shit, too, they'll lose to a more disciplined and balanced team.

Prime KD and Prime WB (with decent help) didn't win anything, but prime Tmac and prime Kobe is 100% guaranteed? ok.

TomCat

07-10-2016, 08:44 PM

They'd still win all the rings, honestly. That's just way too much firepower.

Unless you have some trash ass coach and complete scrubs from 4-15.

Unless Shaq colludes with Rasheed Wallace, Scottie Pippen, steve Smith, sabonis and form a super team

But back then no one would collude like that. It was frowned upon

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:46 PM

Unless Shaq colludes with Rasheed Wallace, Scottie Pippen, steve Smith, sabonis and form a super team

But back then no one would collude like that. It was frowned upon
You don't understand the law of diminishing returns or how important it is for teams to fit well together, do you?

TomCat

07-10-2016, 08:47 PM

You don't understand the law of diminishing returns or how important it is for teams to fit well together, do you?

Are you saying that team with Shaq won't win the championship against Kobe and Tmac?

I don't think you understand how impactful players are

TheWinningFam

07-10-2016, 08:48 PM

Dont mind cat its just stalker or warriorfan melting the f.uck down as usual
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:49 PM

Are you saying that team with Shaq won't win the championship against Kobe and Tmac?

I don't think you understand how impactful players are
That team with Shaq is a strawman, so I don't see how that's relevant.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 08:57 PM

I need to play guitar without interruption so I'll leave with this:

1. Wade wasn't in his prime in 2013. Kyrie isn't in his prime yet.
2. LeBron obviously intended for it to be easy to rack up rings in Miami. A combination of fit, injuries, decline (and LBJ choking in 2011) made it more difficult than anticipated.
3. If you honestly think LeBron is incapable of winning a ring on a team without "two other superstars" you're full of shit. Add Kyrie to his old Cavs teams in place of Mo Williams for instance.

Hey Yo

07-10-2016, 09:11 PM

Kobe and Tmac would win night in night out.

They don't even need AI. Get someone like Elden Campbell, anthony mason, and derek fisher and its a 3 peat
This ^^^^^^ is so fukcing dumb

weak trolling is weak.....:oldlol:

TommyGriffin

07-10-2016, 09:28 PM

Kevin Love is a superstar

Kevin Love pre-LeBron put up 26/12.5/4.4/on 59% TS

Here is a list of players who have achieved that feat

https://s32.postimg.org/g9918d2pf/Kevin_Love_Ho_F.png

The only players who have ever managed to do it is Kevin Love and Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar

It's pretty safe to say that Kevin Love pre-LeBron was a superstar

Coincidentally Kevin Love stopped performing at a superstar level as soon as he started playing with LeBron

Coincidentally this is the exact thing that happened when Chris Bosh played with LeBron

Therefore we can determine that LeBron-Ball has a diminishing effect on his teammates effectiveness, lowering the potential of his team below the actual level of the team's true talent
Spot on. I am a big Kevin Love fan myself but most non-trolls will agree that he is a Superstar talent.

eliteballer

07-10-2016, 10:40 PM

:applause:

TheWinningFam

07-10-2016, 10:41 PM

It seems to me that you are not familiar with the Minnesota teams of 2012 through 2014. Go ahead and look over their rosters and you should get the answer to your question.

Good luck
That's not awnsering the question you f.ucking clown :facepalm

FLDFSU

07-10-2016, 11:21 PM

How are you so dense as to not understand why I'm bringing up 2014 Kyrie?

You're using what Love did BEFORE LeBron to argue he was a superstar

You're using what Kyrie did AFTER LeBron to argue he's a superstar.

I'll ask again: are you retarded?

Lebron haters have no logical consistency. You know that. Whether talking about how "stacked" the Heat were, to "Superstar" Bosh, to Love and Irving.

They are idiotic haters.

The guy you are talking to literally just used pre-Lebron Love to argue how much of a Superstar he is currently, but then uses post-Lebron Irving to argue how much of a Superstar he is currently.

Then questions why you are using pre-Lebron Irving all while he uses pre-Lebron Love to argue his point. You cannot make up the level of stupidity that exists in the Lebron hater's world.

RRR3

07-10-2016, 11:27 PM

Lebron haters have no logical consistency. You know that. Whether talking about how "stacked" the Heat were, to "Superstar" Bosh, to Love and Irving.

They are idiotic haters.

The guy you are talking to literally just used pre-Lebron Love to argue how much of a Superstar he is currently, but then uses post-Lebron Irving to argue how much of a Superstar he is currently.

Then questions why you are using pre-Lebron Irving all while he uses pre-Lebron Love to argue his point. You cannot make up the level of stupidity that exists in the Lebron hater's world.
:applause: :applause: :applause:

This is why I have more respect for LeBron haters such as TheMarkMadsen. At least Mark actually does research and gives actual evidence to make his arguments. I think he's full of shit, but I can respect him for at least making an argument instead of just being an idiot.

Old Man River

07-10-2016, 11:55 PM

I think Bulls had a big three of Pipper and Rodman included.

BallsOut

07-11-2016, 01:44 AM

Yes? Prime Kobe and prime T-Mac are taking a steaming taco bell AM crunchwrap shit on the league. Just kill AI in training camp and hold the trophy in June.

RRR3 getting murked in this thread :roll:

Derka

07-11-2016, 09:41 AM

Love, a 3x All-Star, is a superstar? Nah.

Koresh

07-12-2016, 02:24 AM

An undisputable fact: Durant was never able to win a championship without having at least 3 other superstar players in their primes on his team. Jordan has. Hakeem has. Dirk has. Wade has. Kobe has. Shaq has. LeBron has. All the great players in the top 10 have at least once.

It's easy to win rings when you have 3 guys on your team capable of dropping 40/10 every night. Durant is the only player in league history that has needed that luxury to win championships. Frankly, having played with an unprecedented amount of superstar players on the same team, I would be surprised if Durant doesn't have 7 rings by 2024.

That's why Durant is not top 10 of all time. Players in the top 10 have set the standard by winning at least 1 championship with just 1 other superstar player in his prime. Durant will go down as a great player because of his stats, but there's one thing he could never accomplish that all the top 10 greats have. Durant could never win the championship without 2 other supstar players in their primes.

BallsOut

07-24-2016, 12:16 PM

D. Toretto

07-24-2016, 12:22 PM

Lebron hasn't proved he could win with just 1 other Superstar sidekick. Wade had just past his prime Shaq. Kobe had just Gasol or Shaq. Dirk had nada. Hakeem too.

We got dumbass Lebron stans in here acting like he accomplished anything special. Any superstar player can win a ring when he colluded to play with 2 other superstar payers on his team. 2010-14 Heat (prime Lebron, Wade, Bosh) and 2014-2016 Cavs (prime Lebron, Irving, Love) vs rest of Nba is like team USA against international teams. When you have that much talent over the opposition, it's no competition.

They don't understand that the stats of sidekicks will obviously go down because there are only so much positions for one team with five players. Their only argument is "look at the statline, they suck" etc., which is obviously nonsense. Put any other player into the place of Love or Irving and you Lebron guys shall see.

SouBeachTalents

07-24-2016, 05:59 PM

2013 Wade: 16/5/5
2012/13 Bosh: 13/8, 0 points in Game 7 of the Finals
2016 Love: 15/9 on 39%, 9/7 on 36% in the Finals

That's what OP considers superstar production & level of play

warriorfan

07-24-2016, 06:16 PM

2013 Wade: 16/5/5
2012/13 Bosh: 13/8, 0 points in Game 7 of the Finals
2016 Love: 15/9 on 39%, 9/7 on 36% in the Finals

That's what OP considers superstar production & level of play

Why did all 3 of them stop being a superstar as soon as they started playing with LeBron?

Just a coincidence? Yeah?

SouBeachTalents

07-24-2016, 06:17 PM

Why did all 3 of them stop being a superstar as soon as they started playing with LeBron?

Just a coincidence? Yeah?

Because 2 of them were never superstars, and one of them was a superstar who declined every season due to injury/age

3ball

07-24-2016, 06:21 PM

Wade was injured a lot in 2012 and his game was affected. He wasn't in his prime in 2013. Bosh isn't a superstar. Love put up superstar stats, but he's certainly not doing well with the Cavs (relatively speaking).

Jordan's 3-peated with his 2nd option providing these stats:

Pippen 1996-1998 playoffs: 17/7/5 on 40.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_game)*

Otoh, Lebron went 2/4 with his 2nd option providing these stats:

Wade 2011-2014 playoffs: 20/5/4 on 47.5% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game)

* This includes 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals, which is worse than anything Wade has ever done - so Lebron has no excuses for going 2/4 with Wade, especially considering the expectations were "not 5.. not 6.. not 7"

Kyrie played like a superstar in the playoffs, under LeBron's guidance of course :pimp: (jk real Cavs fans)

Lebron only averaged 1 ppg more than Kyrie, so he faced less defensive attention than Jordan, who averaged 15 ppg more than Pippen.

Lebron has numerous series where he wasn't his team's scoring leader, including an entire playoff run.. The reality is that NO all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their career, let alone by an average margin of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) like Jordan.
.

SouBeachTalents

07-24-2016, 06:24 PM

Jordan's 3-peated with his 2nd option providing these stats:

Pippen 1996-1998 playoffs: 17/7/5 on 40.8%*

Otoh, Lebron went 2/4 with his 2nd option providing these stats:

Wade 2011-2014 playoffs: 20/5/4 on 47.5%

* This includes 15 ppg on 34% in 1996 Finals, which is worse than anything Wade has ever done - so Lebron has no excuses for going 2/4 with Wade, especially considering the expectations were "not 5.. not 6.. not 7"

Lebron only averaged 1 ppg more than Kyrie, so he faced less defensive attention than Jordan, who averaged 15 ppg more than Pippen.

Lebron has numerous series where he wasn't his team's scoring leader, including an entire playoff run.. The reality is that NO all-time great led their team in scoring for every playoff series of their career, let alone by an average margin of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) like Jordan.

Pippen's '96 Finals were definitely better than Wade's '14 Finals. I know you're going to post the stats since you didn't watch the 2014 Finals, but anyone who saw that series knows Wade was awful in every conceivable way. Even with worse FG%, Pippen's impact on defensive shits on Wade's porous defense

warriorfan

07-24-2016, 06:26 PM

Because 2 of them were never superstars, and one of them was a superstar who declined every season due to injury/age

Kevin Love is a superstar

Kevin Love pre-LeBron put up 26/12.5/4.4/on 59% TS

Here is a list of players who have achieved that feat

https://s31.postimg.org/r5nhhdmzv/Kevin_Love_Ho_F1.png

The only players who have ever managed to do it is Kevin Love and Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar

It's pretty safe to say that Kevin Love pre-LeBron was a superstar

SouBeachTalents

07-24-2016, 06:29 PM

Kevin Love is a superstar

Kevin Love pre-LeBron put up 26/12.5/4.4/on 59% TS

Here is a list of players who have achieved that feat

https://s31.postimg.org/r5nhhdmzv/Kevin_Love_Ho_F1.png

The only players who have ever managed to do it is Kevin Love and Prime Kareem Abdul Jabbar

It's pretty safe to say that Kevin Love pre-LeBron was a superstar

Sorry, superstars make the playoffs on at worst a semi-regular basis. Love literally never made the playoffs once in Minnesota. KG's T-Wolves teams weren't good, but he was still leading them to the playoffs several seasons in a row, because he was a legit superstar

Hey Yo

07-24-2016, 06:37 PM

Jordan's 3-peated with his 2nd option providing these stats:

Pippen 1996-1998 playoffs: 17/7/5 on 40.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_game)*

Pippen was 1st team All-Defense as was Rodman who also was busy being the NBA rebounding champ.

warriorfan

07-24-2016, 06:37 PM

Sorry, superstars make the playoffs on at worst a semi-regular basis. Love literally never made the playoffs once in Minnesota. KG's T-Wolves teams weren't good, but he was still leading them to the playoffs several seasons in a row, because he was a legit superstar

Remember, Kevin Love was playing in the tougher Western Conference while he was having a superstar season in 2013-2014.

Kevin Love's 2013-2014 Minnesota team went (40-42)

The 2013-2014 Atlanta Hawks secured an 8th seed playoff birth in the Eastern Conference only with a record of (38-44)

If Kevin Love played in the Eastern Conference they would of had a playoff birth but he was playing in the tougher Western Conference

References:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014.html

3ball

07-24-2016, 06:38 PM

Wade's porous defense

Lebron's defense was more porous - he allowed a 12 ppg role player to go apeshit and win FMVP in 2014.. We know this wasn't a fluke because he allowed an 8 ppg bench player to double his scoring average and win FMVP the very next season.

Also, you can search long and wide, but you won't find a worse Finals performance on a winning team than Pippen's 1996 (15 ppg on 34%).. And again - we know this wasn't a fluke, because he averaged nearly the same in 1998 Finals (15 ppg on 41%).

Ultimately, the statistical facts are evident - Wade produced more during his time with Lebron than Pippen's 2nd three-peat, so Lebron has no excuse for going 2/4.. It isn't complicated..

aj1987

07-24-2016, 06:41 PM

Lebron's defense was more porous - he allowed a 12 ppg role player to go apeshit and win FMVP in 2014.. We know this wasn't a fluke because he allowed an 8 ppg bench player to double his scoring average and win FMVP the very next season.
I don't even know why I bother with a retard, who doesn't even watch the games, but here goes. LeBron wasn't the primary defender on either Iggy or Kawhi.

Ultimately, the statistical facts are evident - Wade produced more during his time with Lebron than Pippen's 2nd three-peat, so Lebron has no excuse for going 2/4.. It isn't complicated..
Ordan had the luxury or playing with two the the greatest defenders the game has even seen. Also the GOAT coach.

warriorfan

07-24-2016, 06:42 PM

Rodman who also was busy being the NBA rebounding champ.

https://s32.postimg.org/pakmlreg5/Love_Rebound_Champion.png

Hey Yo

07-24-2016, 06:44 PM

https://s32.postimg.org/pakmlreg5/Love_Rebound_Champion.png
Not while in Cleveland.

:cletus:

warriorfan

07-24-2016, 06:47 PM

Not while in Cleveland.

:cletus:

What a coincidence!

Hey Yo

07-24-2016, 06:49 PM

What a coincidence!
That he played a different role.... in different system?

yeah, what a coincidence

:cletus:

3ball

07-24-2016, 07:01 PM

I don't even know why I bother with a retard, who doesn't even watch the games, but here goes. LeBron wasn't the primary defender on either Iggy or Kawhi.

Lebron wasn't the primary defender on the SG or PF - he was the primary defender on SF's, which were Kawhi and Iggy - this is elementary.

Here's the video:

Lebron guarding Kawhi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdg7dHYVvMc&t=0m01s
Lebron guarding Iggy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGdMvQ-RPpY

Ordan had the luxury or playing with two the the greatest defenders the game has even seen. Also the GOAT coach.

Jordan had the luxury of being the best defender EVER at his position, whereas Lebron is nowhere near.

And Rodman was nowhere near being a goat defender in 1997 or 1998, when he didn't make a single all-defensive team.. He only averaged 4/8 in 1997 playoffs and didn't even start in 1998 playoffs.

In addition to Rodman's poor play, we know Pippen was ALSO horrible during the 2nd three-peat - 17 ppg on 41% during 96-98' playoffs - oh, whatta "super" team... :rolleyes: .. :oldlol:
.

dankok8

07-24-2016, 07:17 PM

Wade was no longer in his prime in 2012 and especially 2013 and Bosh missed half the postseason run in 2012 with injury. Love this year wasn't anything close to a superstar. He wasn't even an all star.

Try again.

3ball

07-24-2016, 07:29 PM

Love this year wasn't anything close to a superstar. He wasn't even an all star.

Try again.

Let me ask you something - do you think the 27-year old Love is a worse basketball player than he was 2 years ago at 25, when he averaged 26/13 and was All-NBA?

Obviously he's isn't a worse player - he's only 27 and entering his uber-prime.. So now that we've established that a 27-year old isn't past his prime, we can look for OTHER reasons why Love's stats cratered.

Oh, I know!!... It's the same reason Bosh's stats cratered alongside Lebron - Lebron's style reduces the stats of skilled bigs!!... That's the most logical explanation for a superstar's stats cratering in the middle of their prime, and it's based on empirical evidence (bosh and love).. Btw, let me know if you want a SPECIFIC explanation for Bosh and Love's stat decline because it's been statistically proven WHY Lebron craters their stats..
.

aj1987

07-24-2016, 07:31 PM

Lebron wasn't the primary defender on the SG or PF - he was the primary defender on SF's, which were Kawhi and Iggy - this is elementary.

Here's the video:

Lebron guarding Kawhi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdg7dHYVvMc&t=0m01s
Lebron guarding Iggy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGdMvQ-RPpY

Watch the series, moron. You can find the games online. Also, that channel is a terrible one. That guy is like a YT version of you.

Ordan had the luxury of being the best defender EVER at his position, whereas Lebron is nowhere near.
Sure. He also had 2 of the greatest defenders on his team.

And Rodman was nowhere near being a goat defender in 1997 or 1998, when he didn't make a single all-defensive team.. He only averaged 4/8 in 1997 playoffs and didn't even start in 1998 playoffs.
Funny how you just chose to ignore the stats from his '98 PO's. Keep cherrypicking as always, retard.

In addition to Rodman's poor play, we know Pippen was ALSO horrible during the 2nd three-peat - 17 ppg on 41% during 96-98' playoffs - oh, whatta "super" team...
.
tl;dr - Ordan is a ballhog. LeBron shits on Ordan.

3ball

07-24-2016, 07:51 PM

you ignore Rodman's stats from '98 PO's.

I figured everyone already knew that Rodman wasn't a starter in the 98' playoffs.. :confusedshrug:

But here you go: Rodman averaged 5/12 on 37% in the 98' playoffs - this included 3/8 averages in the FINALS.. Between Rodman's 3/8 and Pip's 15 ppg on 41% - it's laughable that young fans think the Bulls had a "super" team lol.

Jordan's teammates were AIDS in the 98' Finals, which is why he was forced to show us the greatest clutch the game's ever seen.

Lebron shits on Ordan

You keep implying that Jordan had no "J" - but Jordan took 1202 midrange jumpshots in 1997, which is more TOTAL jumpshots than Curry took this year (1191).

Jordan shot 49% on all those contested midrange shots, which is #1 all-time, and utterly ridiculous given the volume.

Jordan also had 2 of the greatest defenders on his team.

If Rodman was "one of the league's best defenders", then why didn't he make any All-NBA defensive teams in 1997 or 1998?

Ordan is a ballhog.

Jordan was an off-ball SG - his time of possession was half of Lebron's, who plays PG from the forward position.

Lebron held the ball for an astonishing 12.0 (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) minutes per game in 2015 Finals, which was 50% higher than the regular season leader John Wall's 8.1 (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) minutes.

In 2016 Finals, Lebron held the ball for 7.5 (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&PORound=4&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1) minutes, which led everyone in the Finals and would've been top 5 in regular season.

Watch the series, moron. You can find the games online. Also, that channel is a terrible one. That guy is like a YT version of you.

Lebron was the primary defender on Iggy and Kawhi when they were on the floor... This is common knowledge fact - I don't need to look anything up.

I'm the only one in this discussion providing any proof or documentation - otoh, you're just stating what you WANT to believe as fact, which is kind of funny.
.

ArbitraryWater

07-24-2016, 08:17 PM

Love only done it 10 times in Minny

Bosh only done it 5 in Toronto

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Dude is a clown

and thats pushing their true ability by alot

Mr. Jabbar

07-24-2016, 08:37 PM

Nilocon165

07-24-2016, 08:40 PM

https://i.redd.it/fk7weaq0k1bx.jpg

lilteapot

07-24-2016, 08:41 PM

You people have to decide whether or not Lebron needs two superstars to win, or if he makes his superstar teammates worse.

Because if he needs two stars to win, he obviously doesnt make them worse.

If he makes them worse, then he wins without stars.

dankok8

07-24-2016, 09:47 PM

Let me ask you something - do you think the 27-year old Love is a worse basketball player than he was 2 years ago at 25, when he averaged 26/13 and was All-NBA?

Obviously he's isn't a worse player - he's only 27 and entering his uber-prime.. So now that we've established that a 27-year old isn't past his prime, we can look for OTHER reasons why Love's stats cratered.

Oh, I know!!... It's the same reason Bosh's stats cratered alongside Lebron - Lebron's style reduces the stats of skilled bigs!!... That's the most logical explanation for a superstar's stats cratering in the middle of their prime, and it's based on empirical evidence (bosh and love).. Btw, let me know if you want a SPECIFIC explanation for Bosh and Love's stat decline because it's been statistically proven WHY Lebron craters their stats..
.

First of all, Love put up those stats on a terrible Wolves team that won as many as 40 games and as few as 17 in years that he was an all star. And while he was putting up those numbers, he was one of the worst defensive players in the whole league. Now at least he's ok on that end of the floor.

Secondly yes... he may well have declined. He had a serious shoulder injury last postseason and several through a relatively short career that may have created cumulative damage. So it's not even far fetched to say that he's a worse player than he was 2 years ago.

If Lebron kills other players' stats then how do we explain Wade's play in the 2011 playoffs and Kyrie's play this year. You can't have it both ways.

SouBeachTalents

07-24-2016, 09:56 PM

First of all, Love put up those stats on a terrible Wolves team that won as many as 40 games and as few as 17 in years that he was an all star. And while he was putting up those numbers, he was one of the worst defensive players in the whole league. Now at least he's ok on that end of the floor.

Secondly yes... he may well have declined. He had a serious shoulder injury last postseason and several through a relatively short career that may have created cumulative damage. So it's not even far fetched to say that he's a worse player than he was 2 years ago.

If Lebron kills other players' stats then how do we explain Wade's play in the 2011 playoffs and Kyrie's play this year. You can't have it both ways.

The best part is 3ball makes the arguments LeBron craters his teammates stats, but then when his teammates do play well the argument changes to "how much help" he had. And by solely focusing on ppg he'd have you believe Glen Rice > Pippen & Jamison > Rodman

tpols

07-24-2016, 09:57 PM

Sorry, superstars make the playoffs on at worst a semi-regular basis. Love literally never made the playoffs once in Minnesota. KG's T-Wolves teams weren't good, but he was still leading them to the playoffs several seasons in a row, because he was a legit superstar

i dont think you're going to find too many people that are going to compare kevin love to kevin garnett.. whose a top 15-20 player all time despite bad circumstances.. he's actually a great case to prove how good kevin love is though because KG was that good but could never do anything crazy in Minny.. like 1 good run in 2004 and thats about it.. K Love was just coming into full prime in 2014 .. and the team missed the playoffs out West because you needed like 50 wins to make the playoffs.. but if the wolves were in the east they would have made the playoffs for what its worth.. and they kinda sucked outside of Love himself. Overall though Kevin Love is nowhere near KG tho.. he's is on a tier below w/ Bosh's, Pau's, Amare, etc.

SouBeachTalents

07-24-2016, 10:01 PM

i dont think you're going to find too many people that are going to compare kevin love to kevin garnett.. whose a top 15-20 player all time despite bad circumstances.. he's actually a great case to prove how good kevin love is though because KG was that good but could never do anything crazy in Minny.. like 1 good run in 2004 and thats about it.. K Love was just coming into full prime in 2014 .. and the team missed the playoffs out West because you needed like 50 games to make the playoffs.. if the wolves were in the east they would have made the playoffs. Overall though Kevin Love is nowhere near KG.. he's is on a tier below w/ Bosh, Pau, Amare, etc.

That's my exact point though, KG was a legitimate superstar, Kevin Love was not. A superstar takes his team to the playoffs regardless of roster, is consistently in the MVP race, consistently making the All-NBA Team etc. Imo if you're not doing the 3 above year in & year out, you simply are not a superstar, which is why Love, Bosh, Gasol etc. should never be considered one

knicksman

07-25-2016, 03:34 AM

Thats why only a coward himself could respect a coward like him

warriorfan

07-25-2016, 03:46 AM

Thats why only a coward himself could respect a coward like him

he colluded so hes a coward, only his coward stans respect him

knicksman

07-25-2016, 03:50 AM

he colluded so hes a coward, only his coward stans respect him

Yeah. Thats why lebron is sensitive to the bitch word coz its the truth same with his stans calling me the worst poster coz i called them losers. Lol the truth really hurts man

aj1987

07-25-2016, 03:58 AM

Jordan's teammates were AIDS in the 98' Finals, which is why he was forced to show us the greatest clutch the game's ever seen.
Yeah, and lets completely forget about their defensive impact. You do know that Ordan averaged like 28 points on 41% shooting in the '96 Finals, right? That was enough for his team to win.

If Rodman was "one of the league's best defenders", then why didn't he make any All-NBA defensive teams in 1997 or 1998?
Probably because others deserved it over him?

Jordan was an off-ball SG - his time of possession was half of Lebron's, who plays PG from the forward position.
Prove it.

Lebron was the primary defender on Iggy and Kawhi when they were on the floor... This is common knowledge fact - I don't need to look anything up.
You don't need to "look anything up", you drooling retard. You've never actually watched a game of basketball in your life. You can't understand how basketball works from highlights.

I'm the only one in this discussion providing any proof or documentation - otoh, you're just stating what you WANT to believe as fact, which is kind of funny.
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What facts?

1. You claimed that Ordan had half the time of possession as LeBron and you're yet to prove it.

2. You claimed that LeBron was the primary defender on Iggy and Kawhi, and post some garbage ass highlights from a garbage ass YT channel. FYI, you really can't analyze a players defense from watching 3 minute YT clips.

3. You claimed Ordan to be the GOAT jump shooter and are backing up that claim with stats from a SINGLE season and that too, from mid-range.

4. You claimed that LeBron impacted his teammates stats for the worse, but ignore how Ordan turned Pip and Rodman into "AIDS" as you claimed.