In their prime: KG vs. Duncan

[$LakerGold]

This is like the 500th thread when comparing these two guys, but, it's 2016 -- let's see.

Take away finals/playoff experiences.
Take away coaches.
Do not mention stats.
The league just started, but you already know what they're capable of.
So just from pure skill/talent alone, who would you rather build around on?

http://www.rantsports.com/nba/files/2014/12/duncangarnett.jpg

[masonanddixon]

Duncan is a better player.

[Wally450]

If you take away all those things in the OP, I'd probably take KG.

[ScalsFan21]

It's so hard to do that. I can't help but feel like if Tim was drafted into Kevin's position and vice versa, I have a hard time seeing Tim becoming a top 10 GOAT... but I still think he's slightly better.

Temperamentally I prefer Tim to almost any star ever to play, quiet-burning intensity, more CONSISTENT defensively (could be attributed to Pop) though KG reached DPOY-caliber heights in the mid-late '00s, different offensive games but I think Duncan was slightly better... I think he brought a championship mindset for essentially every year he ever played, where with KG coming straight out of high school it took him a bit longer to start really firing on all cylinders.

I think I go with Tim Duncan but the things you listed in the OP blend into what we're all basing this on so it's impossible.

[ShawkFactory]

As far as pure talent goes, they're pretty equal.

I like Tim's demeanor more though, so I'd take him. I'd trust him more as a coach/teammate/owner/etc.

[$LakerGold]

I can agree on what all of you are saying. Good stuff.

[plowking]

Duncan is better for me. Not particularly close either.

He is a player you can dump it into and let him work, get points. KG was far more limited offensively for me. Not someone who can carry your scoring the way Tim could.

Garnett was a great player, but overrated for me. I'd take a whole lotta PF's over him.

[SilkkTheShocker]

I think KG is a top 12 guy all time. But not sure the scenario you take him over TD.

[brain drain]

Even if you take away all that, I think Duncan was more about winning than KG was.
Duncan took several team-friendly contracts over the years while Garnett basically hamstrung the Wolves with his huge salary.

[brain drain]

I think KG is a top 12 guy all time. But not sure the scenario you take him over TD.
No way. He may have been the greatest second banana of all time, but that doesn't get you that high up on the all time ladder.

[Klay 3D]

I believe KG+Kobe would've won 3+ straight if he would've signed with the Lakers in 2004 (2005?). That intensity and hunger would be unmatched by the league. KG is arguably the best defensive leader since Bill Russell.

That being said, Tim Duncan is my franchise guy. He's more reliable in the scoring department and led on both sides. He'll never butt heads with any teammate and fit in any system. KG's still my favorite of the two but it is what it is.

[brain drain]

Duncan is better for me. Not particularly close either.

He is a player you can dump it into and let him work, get points. KG was far more limited offensively for me. Not someone who can carry your scoring the way Tim could.

Garnett was a great player, but overrated for me. I'd take a whole lotta PF's over him.

Basically this.

KG wasn't a top-shelf 1st option scorer.

He provided nice all-around stats, but the stuff he excelled at (rebounding, defense) could be replicated by much cheaper players. And his scoring ability simply wasn't first-rate, especially in the playoffs.

That guy had only *1* playoff run as 1st option where he posted a TS% >= 55%. That's pretty damn bad for a 1st option.

[Anaximandro1]

Fourth Quarter :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-a4ASSt6LRkQ/U8iE0YIXIEI/AAAAAAAADU8/2DtFWYRE3wY/s1600/3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Atyg-CSWXyY/VmyBYZDBUzI/AAAAAAAAFCA/TpgCtGujBoc/s1600/205.jpg


prime Duncan was SO GOOD at creating his own offense when the stakes were high ...

Tim Duncan's 1st Playoff Game (1998 @ PHO) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0)

SAS 72 - PHO 79 (4th 10:39)

rookie Duncan scored 18 pts in the fourth and SAS won the game ...

[redhonda76]

Duncan 10 out of 10 times.
KG is very versatile but Duncan commands the paint. This is why Duncan is very reliable during the clutch instead of KG.

[tpols]

pretty much a coin flip ..

[brain drain]

pretty much a coin flip ..
Only if both sides show Duncan.

[Dragonyeuw]

I suppose the simplest way to answer this is which team is better off if you swap the two. I just don't see Garnett winning titles in 99 and 2003 at the very least. I don't know to what degree the Wolves would be better with Duncan, but the stability Duncan has lent to the Spurs franchise, ability to adapt his role to accommodate aging and new teammates shouldn't be understated. On raw talent they're probably on the same page, KG may be even a bit more gifted, but Duncan had certain intangibles that don't show on a boxscore.

[tpols]

Fourth Quarter :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-a4ASSt6LRkQ/U8iE0YIXIEI/AAAAAAAADU8/2DtFWYRE3wY/s1600/3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Atyg-CSWXyY/VmyBYZDBUzI/AAAAAAAAFCA/TpgCtGujBoc/s1600/205.jpg


prime Duncan was SO GOOD at creating his own offense when the stakes were high ...

Tim Duncan's 1st Playoff Game (1998 @ PHO) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0)

SAS 72 - PHO 79 (4th 10:39)

rookie Duncan scored 18 pts in the fourth and SAS won the game ...


you only show garnett's stats for one year .. and barely prime year at that.

And OP said without all their help and career circumstances, just from scratch.. and you're listing stats that were achieved in an easier environment (for duncan) .. kevin garnett is every bit as valuable as Tim Duncan. He's been the defensive rpm leader for 00s decade while having mediocre defensive talent around him .. Duncan came up with one of the greatest defenders ever in D-Rob, and in a much friendlier system for growth than the twolves whose management was an embarrassment.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you take away all those things in the OP, I'd probably take KG.

youre basically saying KG is better then, though..

[feyki]

I do list points ;

• Rim Protection - This goes to Duncan , no doubt .

• On Ball Defence - KG , he had amazing mobility and athleticism for his size .

• Help defence - KG , more versatile game .

• Man to Man Defence - Duncan , just see him against Shaq .

• Total Potential Impact On Defence - Duncan with goat level rim protection . KG was more versatile and quicker . But Duncan had control the game like Tower .


• Inside Scoring - Duncan , with his post and footwork moves . And also was more consistency scorer .

• Outside Scoring - KG , not even debatable .

• Playmaking - Equal , Garnett had more assists . Cause he was in the team like 15 Cavs-Lebron situation . And he had more assists with much more ball domination . But per touch , it's equal .

• Efficient as shooting , leading team - Duncan , more consistent like i said . And He had no dropping percentages in the playoffs rather than KG .

Total Potential Impact On Offence - Duncan , one word Playoffs . In Duncan We Trust .


Hustle ..

• Rebounding - Equal . Maybe Duncan was a bit better .

• Turnovers - KG was far better interceptor .

• Total Impact On Hustle - KG .

[plowking]

Malone, Barkley, McHale, Nowitzki, etc are all better than KG at his best.

KG is honestly in the Chris Webber level for me. He isn't a first option like the guys above. He is a great second option. Maybe one of the best ever. Should have been that his whole career. Even his MVP screams more of Derrick Rose to me, then say Kobe Bryant or Shaq.

Just my opinion though. I know a lot will not agree with it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Duncan is better for me. Not particularly close either.

He is a player you can dump it into and let him work, get points. KG was far more limited offensively for me. Not someone who can carry your scoring the way Tim could.

Garnett was a great player, but overrated for me. I'd take a whole lotta PF's over him.


look what I found:

https://i.gyazo.com/5fd723d9f0321b9a95458ad1a7e2ed8b.png


:applause:

[plowking]

look what I found:

https://i.gyazo.com/5fd723d9f0321b9a95458ad1a7e2ed8b.png


:applause:

Don't know how anyone can rank KG over Dirk. I just don't.

One guy leading teams to 50 wins consistently, the other struggled to make playoffs. Then he won as a 2nd option. Which to me is his perfect role. Being an 18/10 guy who plays fantastic defense.

[brain drain]

Don't know how anyone can rank KG over Dirk. I just don't.

One guy leading teams to 50 wins consistently, the other struggled to make playoffs. Then he won as a 2nd option. Which to me is his perfect role. Being an 18/10 guy who plays fantastic defense.

The crazy part is: old and decrepit dirk right now is getting similar team results as KG did most of the time with the wolves, in his prime.

[dankok8]

If Duncan was drafted by the Wolves and followed Garnett's career path and vice versa, we would be standing now talking about Garnett being the GOAT PF. Ignoring circumstances is silly.

2003 is often looked at as an unmatched run and I'm not sure why. The Spurs beat a Lakers team that was falling apart and had no depth giving major minutes to guys like Slava Medvedenko, Devean George, Mark Madsen, and Brian Shaw. What would have been a tight contest against the Mavs was derailed when Dirk went down with Game 2 and didn't play again the rest of the series. In the Finals they beat a 49-win Nets team that the Lakers swept a year prior. It wasn't a difficult "epic" run at all.

2005 was a bit more difficult but injury to Joe Johnson hurt Phoenix's chances. The Pistons series was tough but Duncan played poorly on offense in that series and they still won.

2007 was a really easy run beating Phoenix with the help of suspension then Utah and Cleveland in the last two rounds.

There is no reason KG couldn't win titles in Duncan's place on the 2003, 2005, and 2007 Spurs. Maybe the 1999 and 2014 Spurs too although Duncan was the better player in those years. Meanwhile Duncan in Minnesota wouldn't win and then he could win 1 or maybe 2 in Boston. Garnett would win 2-3 MVP's playing on contenders in his prime.


In a vacuum I would take Duncan by a bit. He is a better scorer with his back to the basket and that is a crucial skill against a set defense in the playoffs. Garnett's edge in ball handling and defensive mobility don't quite make up for this. As far as their intangibles I'd call it a wash. Are people forgetting that KG single-handedly changed the culture in Boston upon arrival and was their vocal leader who inspired them to play hardnosed defense and forged their identity? KG was always team first and in fact more of a vocal leader than Timmy.

Garnett is almost as good as Duncan. Maybe 95% as good.

Dirk is significantly below both. He's the best scorer of the three but lags far behind in all other facets of the game. And I'm not sure where "lack of supporting cast" arguments are coming from. From 2001-2004 Dirk played with Nash, Finley, and at times Antawn Jamison, Antoine Walker, and Nick Van Exel. That's insane firepower. Then in the mid-decade he had Josh Howard, Jason Terry, and Stack all three good for 15-20 points on any given night. His weakest cast was in 2011 when he won the championship, at least on paper. Overall throughout his career, Dirk had some great teams around him.

Dirk was hurt in the 2003 WCF, played poorly in 2005 against Houston, 2006 Finals, and 2007. He had plenty of bad bad moments that are swept under the rug. A lot more under-performing from him than either Duncan or Garnett.

[Pointguard]

Basically this.

KG wasn't a top-shelf 1st option scorer.

He provided nice all-around stats, but the stuff he excelled at (rebounding, defense) could be replicated by much cheaper players. And his scoring ability simply wasn't first-rate, especially in the playoffs.

That guy had only *1* playoff run as 1st option where he posted a TS% >= 55%. That's pretty damn bad for a 1st option.
TS% is a garbage stat when it comes to bigs. Duncan, Wilt, Garnett, Russell, Shaq sometimes, all suffered in TS%. KG when playing Duncan straight up was definitely equal in scoring to Duncan.

[T_L_P]

I love Garnett, he's in or around my top 10 ever... but give me the guy who you can dump the ball to and carry your offense in the Playoffs.

You never had that with Garnett.

[Stringer Bell]

Fourth Quarter :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-a4ASSt6LRkQ/U8iE0YIXIEI/AAAAAAAADU8/2DtFWYRE3wY/s1600/3.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Atyg-CSWXyY/VmyBYZDBUzI/AAAAAAAAFCA/TpgCtGujBoc/s1600/205.jpg


prime Duncan was SO GOOD at creating his own offense when the stakes were high ...

Tim Duncan's 1st Playoff Game (1998 @ PHO) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0)

SAS 72 - PHO 79 (4th 10:39)

rookie Duncan scored 18 pts in the fourth and SAS won the game ...

Impressive, good info there.

I'm going with Duncan here for reasons given above. Garnett was hardly a slouch, he was a hell of a player too.

Duncan is someone whose stats don't show his overall impact, and I think Garnett was that way in Boston. He was the defensive anchor, and as said earlier, changed their identity.

It's unfortunate he got injured in 2009. I think we would have gotten 3 straight Lakers-Celtics finals from 2008-10 if he had not gotten injured. The 2009 Finals surely would have been better with those 2 teams than the mediocre Lakers-Magic series (although we did get an epic 1st round series between the Celtics & Bulls).

[FatComputerNerd]

I take KG mainly based on his versatility and the eye-test.

Close one though, and no disrespect to Duncan!

[Anaximandro1]

4th quarter :D

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dwKnuu8bJ5M/VLKV8iE_bEI/AAAAAAAADpA/EUwlVQk0iLE/s1600/9.jpg


Avery Johnson on Tim Duncan (July 12, 2016) (http://jimrome.com/2016/07/12/avery-johnson-on-tim-duncan-a-comedian/)
[QUOTE]After the team selected Duncan with the first overall pick in 1997 Draft, it didn

[Cali Syndicate]

Duncan is the more dependable scorer due to his ability in the post. His jumper is pretty good right around that 10-12 foot too. Kg is a more Jack of all trades guy on offense. Defensively, kg is better due to his versatility.

Just pure skill set and ability for a big, duncan is the correct choice. Although coming into the league, kg had more potential. Would be hard to go against such a polished player that duncan was even as a rookie.

[SsKSpurs21]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/53/34/a2/5334a2ecf1ebc5bb30bb0ad7882c1b51.jpg