Lebron rope-a-doped GSW, which isn't the most dominant way to win

[3ball]

.
Imagine if a single play goes the other way in Game 7 - Lebron literally won by a single posession, which means Lebron wasn't as dominant as other players who dominated with larger margins of victory.

Lebron needed 7 games because he only averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru the first 4 games - then he averaged 36 ppg for the last 3 games to comeback.. But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE series like MJ in the 91-93 Finals (36/7/8), he would produce a greater margin of victory and therefore be more dominant, like Jordan.
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[TheWinningFam]

Lebron beat a 73 win team, jordan didn't :facepalm

[3ball]

Lebron beat a 73 win team, jordan didn't :facepalm


GSW was 15-9 in the playoffs and 6-8 in their last 14 games - they nearly lost to the isolation king Thunder and would've lost to many teams in prior eras.. So they weren't anywhere near the dominant team their regular season record indicated, which is very common.

Teams with the best regular season record frequently lose in the higher competition playoffs, so regular season record isn't a good gauge of all-time greatness.

[CarlosBoozer]

Jordan had zero competition, Lebron beat the best team the nba has ever had.

[AintNoSunshine]

Winning 3 straight, including 2 on the road, against a 73-win team, who hasn't lost 3 straight in 2 years.

While posting back to back 40 point games in the first two and in the third he posted only the 3rd triple double in Finals game 7 history.

Sounds pretty fking dominant to me.

[plowking]

Lebron would have destroyed, and demolished both the 96 Bulls and Jordan more than he did these GSW.

[3ball]

Winning 3 straight, including 2 on the road, against a 73-win team, who hasn't lost 3 straight in 2 years.


GSW was 15-9 in the playoffs and 6-8 in their last 14 games.. They were repeatedly locked down and nearly lost to the isolation king Thunder - they would've lost to many teams in prior eras.

They weren't anywhere near the dominant team their regular season record indicated, which is very common.. Teams with the best regular season record frequently lose in the higher competition playoffs, so regular season record isn't a good gauge of all-time greatness.





b2b 40 point games in the first two and in the third he posted only the 3rd triple double in Finals game 7 history.


Lebron needed 7 games because he only averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru the first 4 games - then he averaged 36 ppg for the last 3 games to comeback.

But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE series like MJ in the 91-93 Finals (36/7/8), he would produce a greater margin of victory and therefore be more dominant, like Jordan.





Sounds pretty fking dominant to me.


Jordan's 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals > Lebron's 30/11/9 in 2016 because Jordan scored 16 ppg more than Pippen and made all the game-winning plays, while Lebron only scored 2 ppg more than Kyrie with Kyrie making game-winning plays.

Also, Lebron averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru 4 games (3-1 deficit), and came back by averaging 36 ppg in the final 3 games.. But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE SERIES like Jordan did in 1991-1993 Finals, then he wouldn't need a 7th game... MJ was much >>
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[CarlosBoozer]

Greatest performance by a single individual, just pure dominance in every aspect of basketball

[aj1987]

Lebron beat a 73 win team, jordan didn't :facepalm
Well, Ordan's a lesser player than LeBron. Peak Ordan would be a '16 PO's version of DeRozan in todays game.

[3ball]

Greatest performance by a single individual, just pure dominance in every aspect of basketball


Jordan's 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals > Lebron's 30/11/9 because Jordan scored 16 ppg more than Pippen and made all the game-winning plays, while Lebron only scored 2 ppg more than Kyrie with Kyrie making game-winning plays.

Also, Lebron averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru 4 games (3-1 deficit), and came back by averaging 36 ppg in the final 3 games.. But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE SERIES like Jordan did in 1991-1993 Finals, then he wouldn't need a 7th game... MJ was much >>

[AintNoSunshine]

GSW was 15-9 in the playoffs and 6-8 in their last 14 games.. They were repeatedly locked down and nearly lost to the isolation king Thunder - they would've lost to many teams in prior eras.. So they weren't anywhere near the dominant team their regular season record indicated, which is very common.

Teams with the best regular season record frequently lose in the higher competition playoffs, so regular season record isn't a good gauge of all-time greatness.



Lebron needed 7 games because he only averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru the first 4 games - then he averaged 36 ppg for the last 3 games to comeback.

But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE series like MJ in the 91-93 Finals (36/7/8), he would produce a greater margin of victory and therefore be more dominant, like Jordan.



Jordan's 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals > Lebron's 30/11/9 in 2016 because Jordan scored 16 ppg more than Pippen and made all the game-winning plays, while Lebron only scored 2 ppg more than Kyrie with Kyrie making game-winning plays.

Also, Lebron averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru 4 games (3-1 deficit), and came back by averaging 36 ppg in the final 3 games.. But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE SERIES like Jordan did in 1991-1993 Finals, then he wouldn't need a 7th game... MJ was much >>

Keep convincing yourself that. Nobody is reading your sht.

To the rest of the world, this is what matters:

Lebron led everyone in every stats in route to the greatest comeback in NBA history and bringing Cleveland its first title in over half a century.

This was one of the greatest Finals stories and performances ever and one of the most meaningful ring ever.

[AintNoSunshine]

Well, Ordan's a lesser player than LeBron. Peak Ordan would be a '16 PO's version of DeRozan in todays game.

Imagine if DeRozan had a Pippen and Rodman:eek:

[livingby3's]

Also, Lebron averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru 4 games (3-1 deficit), and came back by averaging 36 ppg in the final 3 games.. But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE SERIES like Jordan did in 1991-1993 Finals, then he wouldn't need a 7th game... MJ was much >>

Damn so you're saying LeBron was like damn we're down 3-1 and just decided to go ham and super saiyan mode and the rest was history

[3ball]

Lebron would have destroyed, and demolished both the 96 Bulls and Jordan more than he did these GSW.


Lebron beat GSW by a single possession - if a single play goes the other way, he loses.. So he didn't "demolish" anybody.

As for the 96' Bulls, Jordan's SG status gives them a mismatch advantage - Iggy can't guard Jordan without Klay either guarding Pippen or sitting on the bench.. Also, Jordan and Pippen would be the best defenders that Lebron ever faced at those positions, whereas Cleveland doesn't have anyone to guard Jordan.

Of course, Jordan > Curry, and Pippen > Dray, so the Bulls are superior at the first two spots.. And I'd take 96' Rodman over Klay anytime I didn't already have a consistent double-double PF that could defend well.

Btw, the Warriors were 15-9 in the playoffs and 6-8 in their last 14 games.. Their style was repeatedly locked down in the playoffs and they nearly lost to the isolation king Thunder - they would've lost to many teams in prior eras.

They weren't anywhere near the dominant team their regular season record indicated, which is very common.. Teams with the best regular season record frequently lose in the higher competition playoffs, so regular season record isn't a good gauge of all-time greatness.
.

[TheWinningFam]

Jordan colluded with the white sox to avoid playing the rockets.

[3ball]

Lebron led a great comeback


Jordan didn't need to comeback because he dominated to a greater extent with greater clutch - see his stats in 91-93 Finals.





Lebron led everyone in every stats


Jordan's 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals > Lebron's 30/11/9 because Jordan scored 16 ppg more than Pippen and made all the game-winning plays, while Lebron only scored 2 ppg more than Kyrie with Kyrie making game-winning plays.

[Sportal]

Jordan's 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals > Lebron's 30/11/9 because Jordan scored 16 ppg more than Pippen and made all the game-winning plays, while Lebron only scored 2 ppg more than Kyrie with Kyrie making game-winning plays.

Also, Lebron averaged 24 ppg and 6 turnovers thru 4 games (3-1 deficit), and came back by averaging 36 ppg in the final 3 games.. But if he averaged 36 ppg for the ENTIRE SERIES like Jordan did in 1991-1993 Finals, then he wouldn't need a 7th game... MJ was much >>

LeBron led BOTH teams in points, rebounds, and assists.

GTFOH.

Reply to your other threads you bitch. Don't just pretend like you didn't get viable arguments and haven't seen them.

[CarlosBoozer]

Lebron is a f*cking god

[3ball]

Reply to your other threads you bitch. Don't just pretend like you didn't get viable arguments and haven't seen them.


I didn't get viable arguments and haven't seen them.





LeBron led BOTH teams in points, rebounds, and assists.


Lebron's 30/11/9 represented a smaller load than Jordan's 36/7/8 from the 91-93 Finals because Jordan scored 16 ppg more than Pippen and made all the game-winning plays, while Lebron only scored 2 ppg more than Kyrie with Kyrie making many of the game-winning plays.

It's pretty simple.

[iamgine]

Lebron beat a 73 win team, jordan didn't :facepalm
This

[aj1987]

Imagine if DeRozan had a Pippen and Rodman:eek:
Dude would be GOAT without question. Ordan is just an overrated hack, who gets carried by his legendary teammates and coach.

[AintNoSunshine]

Dude would be GOAT without question. Ordan is just an overrated hack, who gets carried by his legendary teammates and coach.


Argurably GOAT coach

Arguraby GOAT sidekick, one of the greatest defender and the prototype of point forward.

Argurably GOAT rebounder

a 20ppg scorer in Ron Harper as his 4th/5th option

6MOTY in Kukoc

one of the greatest 3 pt shooter in Kerr

A lot of stars could win a title with this cast, just sayin.

[3ball]

Derozan would be goat if he had Pippen and Rodman


Would Derozan do that with his current 21 ppg on 39% in the playoffs?

Or would he magically average another 12 ppg, shoot 10 percentage points better, and get 50% more assists and rebounds?... While being the best defender ever at his position?

don't answer

[3ball]

a 20ppg scorer in Ron Harper as his 4th/5th option


Harper averaged 7 ppg for the entire 1995 season BEFORE Jordan joined late in the season, so he had already fallen off.

You should know that Jordan's off-ball game allowed teammates to play to FULL capacity alongside him.. For example, Pippen and Grant's highs alongside Jordan in 1992 were equal to their stats without him in 1994, and their stats in other years of the first 3-peat were 90% of their 1994 stats.. compare that to Lebron, who cratered Wade, Love, and Bosh's stats





Arguably was goat sidekick in Pippen


Pippen was a great player, along the lines of Wade or Kyrie.. No argument there, although he only averaged 17/7/5 on 40.8% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/pippesc01.html#1996-1998-sum:playoffs_per_game) in 1996-1998 playoffs, compared to Wade's 20/5/4 on 48% (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html#2011-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game) in 2011-2014 playoffs and Kyrie's 25/3/5 on 48% in 2016 playoffs (better than anything in Pippen's career).

Pippen's poor 2nd three-peat included 2 worst-ever Finals performances (15 ppg on 34% in 1996, and nearly the same in 1998).





Argurably GOAT rebounder


Not alongside Jordan.

Rodman was 35-36 years old alongside Jordan in 1997 and 1998 and his all-star days were long gone (1992) - he didn't make any all-defensive teams and averaged 4/8 in 1997 playoffs, while not even starting in 1998 playoffs.

That isn't good for the supposed 3rd-best player on the team.





6 MOTY in Kukoc
one of the greatest 3 pt shooter in Kerr


These guys were 7 and 12 ppg role players that EVERY team have, except these guys played bad defense.





Argurably GOAT coach


All top 10 players have 3+ rings, whether it's Jordan, Bird or Duncan - they're all worth 3+ rings a piece - and Phil is the only guy to ever coach 3 of them.

So don't overrate this guy.. He's a good personality coach - in other words, he's likeable..

But that doesn't mean he's great at other aspects of coaching, like strategy - his triangle doesn't even work with a guy as talented as Carmelo.. It simply doesn't work unless you have a top 10 all-time player, which Carmelo is nowhere near.





A lot of stars could win a title with this cast, just sayin.


Only Jordan could win with that cast because that cast required Jordan to lead the team in scoring for every playoff series of his career, by an average margin of 15.4 ppg (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406920) - no all-time great led their team in scoring for every series of their careers, let alone by 15 ppg like Jordan.

In addition to Jordan's ridiculously goat scoring load, he also was required to lead the team in passing - he led the Bulls in assist percentage for both (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11713121&postcount=49) 3-peats.. Ultimately, Jordan's goat scoring load, team-leading passing, and best-ever defense at his position is the goat performance and biggest load ever carried.
.

[sportjames23]

Jordan had zero competition, Lebron beat the best team the nba has ever had.


The best team the NBA ever had would've won.

Matter of fact, it did. See MJ's '96 Bulls.

[Gileraracer]

Lebron needed:

- an injured Bogut
- an injured Iguodala
- an injured Curry
- A susupension of the opponents best player
- a fouled out Curry


to win. pathetic :roll:

[6 for 24]

3ball makes some pretty expert points here. It is true that LeBron "takes his time" in these playoffs. Do you know that he has already played more than 20 playoff games than Jordan did in his entire career? All this despite having been in the playoffs a mere 11 times compared to Jordan's 13. If we look "beyond the boxscore" we can see why this is.

In his first three playoff seasons, Jordan made "quick work" of the opposition, getting to elimination in a total of 4, 3, and 3 games. Meanwhile, the lesser talented LeBron needed 13, 20, and 13 games to do the same thing. We can see how much more efficient Jordan is-- he needed far fewer games than LeBron, showing a "killer instinct" the young King simply didn't possess.

This Jordan guy was pretty good. Look him up!

Warmest regards,

Ayotunde Ndiaye

[3ball]

In his first three playoff seasons, Jordan made "quick work" of the opposition, getting to elimination in a total of 4, 3, and 3 games.

Meanwhile, the lesser talented LeBron needed 13, 20, and 13 games to do the same thing.


How did Lebron win 19 more games in 2009 than Jordan won in 1989, despite producing less than Jordan??.. (28/8/7 versus Jordan's 33/8/8)... Obviously, he had a superior supporting cast and played inferior competition - that's the only way he could win 19 more games than MJ despite inferior individual production.

Brand of basketball wasn't a factor - MJ played the better brand of basketball since his brand thrived in the higher competition playoffs - the 6th-seeded Bulls defeated higher seeds in every round and took the world champion Bad Boys to 6 games in ECF.. Otoh, Lebron's favored #1 seed and brand of basketball underachieved and was exposed by the lowly, underdog Magic.

[TheWinningFam]

How did Lebron win 19 more games in 2009 than Jordan won in 1989, despite producing less than Jordan??.. (28/8/7 versus Jordan's 33/8/8)... Obviously, he had a superior supporting cast and played inferior competition - that's the only way he could win 19 more games than MJ despite inferior individual production.

Brand of basketball wasn't a factor - MJ played the better brand of basketball since his brand thrived in the higher competition playoffs - the 6th-seeded Bulls defeated higher seeds in every round and took the world champion Bad Boys to 6 games in ECF.. Otoh, Lebron's favored #1 seed and brand of basketball underachieved and was exposed by the lowly, underdog Magic.
Jordan had an opprutunity to beat a GOAT level team but couldn't do it.. its just another reason jordan is an overrated player that benefited from a goat supporting cast+Inferior expansion era teams

Jordan's statline in game 6 ecf- 32-13-5
Otoh lebron in his crucial game 6 over the celtics: 46-5-15

Lebron not only out performed jordan greatly, but also WON the game WITH LESS.
Lebron only had 1 other player score over 10 points with wade's 17 points

otoh, Jordan had FOUR OTHER PLAYERS score OVER 10 points to add to his 32 and STILL choked to the pistons..

It was only until the bulls got stacked and the pistons got old that he was able to beat them...

[3ball]

Jordan's statline in game 6 ecf- 32-13-5
Otoh lebron in his crucial game 6 over the celtics: 46-5-15


You just singled out 1 of the top 2 games in Lebron's playoff career (with his "not 5, not 6, not 7" supporting cast) and compared it to one of Jordan's 179 playoff games when 2nd-year Pippen averaged 10 ppg... :facepalm

Jordan has far more all-time great playoff games than Lebron - it's not even close - Jordan had 47 games of 40+ points (1 every 3.8 games), compared to only 15 for Lebron (1 every 13.3 games)..

Jordan averaged 34/6/6 in the playoffs and Finals... Lebron can't compare with his 28/9/7 on worse efficiency across the board (ts, fg, ortg), higher turnovers, and vastly inferior clutch.
.

[ShawkFactory]

You've made the exact same post that's in the OP like 6 other times and made like 2 other threads saying the exact same thing.

What's the point?

[FPJ]

OP, could you please start comparing Jordan to Kobe? Everyone knows Lebron is a lot better than Jordan now.

[dankok8]

How did Lebron win 19 more games in 2009 than Jordan won in 1989, despite producing less than Jordan??.. (28/8/7 versus Jordan's 33/8/8)... Obviously, he had a superior supporting cast and played inferior competition - that's the only way he could win 19 more games than MJ despite inferior individual production.

Brand of basketball wasn't a factor - MJ played the better brand of basketball since his brand thrived in the higher competition playoffs - the 6th-seeded Bulls defeated higher seeds in every round and took the world champion Bad Boys to 6 games in ECF.. Otoh, Lebron's favored #1 seed and brand of basketball underachieved and was exposed by the lowly, underdog Magic.

First of all, Jordan's era was faster paced than Lebron's...

per 100

1989 Jordan: 40.0/9.9/9.9
2009 Lebron: 40.8/10.9/10.4

So it is incorrect that Jordan was more productive than Lebron.



And one team winning 19 more games may not just be more talent or inferior competition. It could be that the Cavaliers had better chemistry and played better as a team. And it could be that Lebron's style was more conducive to winning games, him not just have a superior court vision but being more likely to pass the ball to his teammates.

Not what you wanted to hear I know... :oldlol:

[Elosha]

Instead of competing threads denigrating either Jordan or Lebron, why can't there be thread(s) that thoughtfully debate which played better in the playoffs/Finals, who faced the best competition, etc.? We should acknowledge that both of them have played at absolutely inhuman and GOAT levels and have nothing but the highest respect for both.

You can pick a favorite and make arguments for/against either one of them. There are legitimate weaknesses that must be accounted for; but each of them are absolute icons. In my opinion, Jordan still clearly comes out better head to head, but I acknowledge that Lebron was overall great during the Finals, comparable to any other GOAT player.

What I can't stand is ISH and even the media's overreaction. Lebron wins this year, so he must be the GOAT. :facepalm Or the backlash, Lebron has "only" won 3/7 and underachieved at times, so he's not even close to Jordan or any other all-time great. :facepalm

Why are human beings so excitable, prone to irrational leaps in logic, and full of vitriol? The same inherent weaknesses that lead to pointless sports debates crop up OVER AND OVER in human history -- and in far more deadly contexts. Don't know if we will ever really learn...

[CuterThanRubio]

The obsession is real!

I'm still convinced that you are actually a LeBron fan, maybe not initially but its too late to stop your little act now!

It wasn't the "most dominant" way to win, yet he posted the most dominant stat line ever seen in the finals, leading in all major categories, keep squirming!

[TheWinningFam]

The obsession is real!

I'm still convinced that you are actually a LeBron fan, maybe not initially but its too late to stop your little act now!

It wasn't the "most dominant" way to win, yet he posted the most dominant stat line ever seen in the finals, leading in all major categories, keep squirming!
:roll: :roll: