Alabama's HB56- A Dire Warning About Mass Immigrant Removal?

[DonDadda59]

In 2011, Alabama's new GOP Governor and legislature passed HB 56 AKA The Alabama Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act.

[INDENT]The law was guided by the philosophy of

[Akrazotile]

In 2011, Alabama's new GOP Governor and legislature passed HB 56 AKA The Alabama Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act.


The law was guided by the philosophy of “self-deportation,” popular among conservative Republicans — the idea that if you can make their daily life difficult enough, undocumented immigrants will leave on their own.

When the bill passed, one of its sponsors, State Rep. Micky Hammon, proudly said it “attacks every aspect of an illegal alien’s life,” as AL.com reported at the time. As such, Hammon said, “This bill is designed to make it difficult for them to live here so they will deport themselves.”

To that end, HB 56 criminalized nearly every aspect of an undocumented immigrant’s life. It made it illegal for undocumented immigrants to work or to seek work, required police to arrest anyone suspected of being in the country illegally, forced schools to check the immigration status of its students, made it illegal to rent an apartment to an undocumented immigrant, and so forth.

But the law unleashed a flurry of unintended consequences, many of them damaging to the state’s economy or embarrassing to its image. It suffered a backlash from law enforcement, which did not appreciate legislators dictating their priorities, and from two of Alabama’s most powerful business constituencies — agriculture and auto manufacturing — seriously undermining support for the law.

Initially, HB 56 succeeded in driving undocumented immigrants out of the state in droves. This exodus laid bare the rarely acknowledged fact that farms in Alabama, as in most states, depend on cheap labor from undocumented immigrants. Deprived of many of their workers, farmers lashed out against the law, and Republicans in the state started having second thoughts.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidnoriega/alabamas-draconian-anti-immigrant-law-dies-with-a-whimper?utm_term=.bvyw1D1BJ#.rywmNRNK7

It was known as the harshest and most Draconian anti-illegal immigrant law in the developed World. Illegals left the State in droves, which naturally led to citizens wages rising and great times for Alabama. Or... uh... What?

Within a year of the law's passage, the agriculture industry and others were devastated as farmers and other employers tried but failed to fill open positions.


Nevertheless, a variety of employers in Alabama said they have not been able to find enough legal residents to replace the seasoned Hispanic field pickers, drywall hangers, landscapers and poultry workers who fled the state. There was an initial rush of job applications, they said, but many new employees quit or were let go.

-Washington Post


Alabama's economy contracted dramatically, growing by only about 1/3 the National Total (http://yellowhammernews.com/business-2/alabamas-economy-grew-at-one-third-the-rate-of-the-rest-of-the-nation-in-2014/) while dropping from the 25th ranked economy in 2006 to the 47th ranked in 2012 (http://americasvoice.org/blog/after-hb-56-alabama-has-worst-economy-in-southeast/). They have the distinction of being the worst economy in the South East.

It's estimated that HB 56 has cost Alabama $11 billion annually.

Georgia, Alabama's neighbor tried a similar measure (http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2012/05/17/the-law-of-unintended-consequences-georgias-immigration-law-backfires/#3cd7d4d6404a) and that resulted in a labor shortage so severe that hundreds of millions were lost in unharvested crops and both GA and AL were forced to try using prison slave labor (https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2012/may/15/prison-slave-labor-replaces-freeworld-workers-in-down-economy/).

HB 56 has been slowly killed off in the courts but the damage was widespread and still felt in the State today.

Many economists have warned that we could see a macro example play out Nationwide if the Donald's immigration plan were to be passed. Constitutional questions not even being considered, $1.6 Trillion over a decade, 6.4% decline in the labor force, 5.7% decline in GDP (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/08/18/5-Reasons-Trump-Immigration-Plan-Doesn-t-Pass-Reality-Test) are the estimates.

Have we learned from the blunders of the SE States or nah? :confusedshrug:


Dadda wants mexicans doing honest work in this country for cheap, so that Americans can be given welfare, have no purpose, take drugs at increasing rates, and have the highest levels of depression in history.

Those agriculture jobs would pay better if only Americans were available for them. Itd be an honest day's work for Americans and theyd have some money in their pockets to boot.

But I know. Mexicans are brown. Conservatives are white. Dadda doesnt care about the country, only petty one-upsmanship of white people. With blacks suffering real economic consequences as a result of policies he supports. But as long as the white people are angry. This is what makes his daily life worthwhile. I guess.

[DonDadda59]

Dadda wants mexicans doing honest work in this country for cheap, so that whites and blacks can be given welfare, have no purpose, take drugs at increasing rates, and have the highest levels of depression in history.

So now it's immigrants' fault that people, particularly White people in the NE, are abusing heroin at alarming rates? :rolleyes:

Explain how the heroin death rate skyrocketing in New Hampshire is being caused by immigrants from Mexico.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151210125038-heroin-overdose-deaths-new-hampshire-line-chart-exlarge-169.png

I'll wait.


Those agriculture jobs would pay better if only Americans were available for them. Itd be an honest day's work for Americans and theyd have some money in their pockets to boot.

Did you not read anything I posted in the OP? Those jobs were available to citizens, and they weren't interested in the back-breaking labor, hence the labor shortages and Georgia and Alabama being forced to try to use prison slave labor to save their crops and economy, to no avail.


But I know. Mexicans are brown. Conservatives are white. Dadda doesnt care about the country, only petty one-upsmanship of white people. With blacks suffering real economic consequences as a result of policies he supports. But as long as the white people are angry. This is what makes his daily life worthwhile. I guess.

http://wp.production.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/files/2014/01/StrawMan2.jpg

[Im Still Ballin]

We got some tough guys in this thread.

[Kblaze8855]

This is one of those things that would...in time..work. but the impact off the bat wouldnt let you keep it going. Kinda like extensive gun control. It would eventually curb violence by making it more difficult for criminals to access weapons that make killing easy. If only through making them more scarce and expensive to traffic in illegally it would remove many from the hands of low level criminals.....however...it would take so long to make a difference...that whoever put it in place would get killed by the apparent lack of results.

Politics only gives you a year or two for your plan to work before its said to be proven ineffective....which is why so many politicians dont even try real change.....the backlash will get them kicked out before the impact can really be judged fairly.

The people who left the state would eventually be replaced by American work....but they would be paid more. How much more the market would have to work out. And many farms would go out of business..many contractors...many landscapers....but the long term impact would be more jobs for Americans....because all those jobs still need doing. Drywall will still be hung. Grass still needs cutting. The market would heal itself....but it would take too long to get to gloat about how its working.

And both sides are so quick to jump on the other for these things...they will never allow real progress to be made. Just see it as a chance to win back a statehouse or seat in congress...so you attack well meaning people with their poor immediate results...to get them out of office no matter what the long term implications are likely to be.

Which is one reason I kinda favor either much longer...or shorter terms. Get reelection off peoples minds. Let a guy know hes gone in 2 years no matter what....and cant run again for 10 years. Let them do what they think will work....without having to show how it worked next year to get back in. Or let them stay in place for 10 years...for the same reason.

Maybe someone would grow some balls.

[Akrazotile]

So now it's immigrants' fault that people, particularly White people in the NE, are abusing heroin at alarming rates? :rolleyes:

Explain how the heroin death rate skyrocketing in New Hampshire is being caused by immigrants from Mexico.

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/151210125038-heroin-overdose-deaths-new-hampshire-line-chart-exlarge-169.png

I'll wait.




Too many people have idle time on their hands and they know society will support them regardless of what they do. Those junkies in New Hampshire probably didnt go pick up a shovel in Alabama because they get plenty of welfare back home, why would they?

Why do you think Mexicans come here to do that work? Cause they dont have any other choice. They dont get free welfare money where they come from. Neither should Americans. Da fuq is this welfare shit you get loaded up with for shitting out a kid you dont even wanna raise? Live in a section 8 for free, get foodstamps for free. Stalker lives a life comfy as shit off any money taken out of YOUR taxes. And you like that? Solid cuckery.

Cut that shit off and send Americans down to the farm, and let them maybe work on farms part time and learn a trade or go to school part time. Some can work full time if they want and develop strong habits. Isnt that what Kblaze did growin up poor?

We dont need to subsidize American's aversion to working by hiring cheap foreigners and letting kids waste time ****ig around. Too many parents enabling that and too much government enabling that. All bc both groups are trying to be popular. Govt so they can get votes and steal more of your money, liberals bc theyre psychologically needy.

Americans "dont wanna do these jobs" bc they can make more off welfare than they can doing the damn job. Thats the problem.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Too many people have idle time on their hands and they know society will support them regardless of what they do. Those junkies in New Hampshire probably didnt go pick up a shovel in Alabama because they get plenty of welfare back home, why would they?

Why do you think Mexicans come here to do that work? Cause they dont have any other choice. They dont get free welfare money where they come from. Neither should Americans. Da fuq is this welfare shit you get loaded up with for shitting out a kid you dont even wanna raise? Live in a section 8 for free, get foodstamps for free. Stalker lives a life comfy as shit off any money taken out of YOUR taxes. And you like that? Solid cuckery.

Cut that shit off and send Americans down to the farm, and let them maybe work on farms part time and learn a trade or go to school part time. Some can work full time if they want and develop strong habits. Isnt that Kblaze did growin up poor?

We dont need to subsidize American's aversion to working by hiring cheap foreigners and letting kids waste time ****ig around. Too many parents enabling that and too much government enabling that. All bc both groups are trying to be popular. Govt so they can get votes and steal more of your money, liberals bc theyre psychologically needy.

Americans "dont wanna do these jobs" bc they can make more off welfare than they can doing the damn job. Thats the problem.
This isn't the ****ing gold rush no one is moving across the country to Alabama to work on a farm. People in Alabama don't even want the jobs.

[Kblaze8855]

I suppose it depends on how you look at it. I know a lot of people who both do these jobs...and get goverment aid. Mostly because landscaping and construction day labor is paid daily in cash. No taxable source of income...cant prove they work...keep getting food stamps at least. But thats getting harder im told.

Far as people not going from NH to alabama for jobe.....really...who is going 1000 miles to get a job picking fruit? You couldnt pay your rent off that job when you got there. Not right away at least.

[Akrazotile]

This isn't the ****ing gold rush no one is moving across the country to Alabama to work on a farm. People in Alabama don't even want the jobs.


Over 30% of young black males in Baltimore are unemployed.


So, they shouldnt be made to go find work wherever they can get it, because "this isnt the goldrush?"


Youre not good at making sense.


You are habitually terrible at it.

[Hawker]

This isn't the ****ing gold rush no one is moving across the country to Alabama to work on a farm. People in Alabama don't even want the jobs.
People in the past did and people now do as well. North Dakota was overtaken by out of staters when the oil boom hit.

[DonDadda59]

This is one of those things that would...in time..work. but the impact off the bat wouldnt let you keep it going. Kinda like extensive gun control. It would eventually curb violence by making it more difficult for criminals to access weapons that make killing easy. If only through making them more scarce and expensive to traffic in illegally it would remove many from the hands of low level criminals.....however...it would take so long to make a difference...that whoever put it in place would get killed by the apparent lack of results.

Politics only gives you a year or two for your plan to work before its said to be proven ineffective....which is why so many politicians dont even try real change.....the backlash will get them kicked out before the impact can really be judged fairly.

The people who left the state would eventually be replaced by American work....but they would be paid more. How much more the market would have to work out. And many farms would go out of business..many contractors...many landscapers....but the long term impact would be more jobs for Americans....because all those jobs still need doing. Drywall will still be hung. Grass still needs cutting. The market would heal itself....but it would take too long to get to gloat about how its working.

And both sides are so quick to jump on the other for these things...they will never allow real progress to be made. Just see it as a chance to win back a statehouse or seat in congress...so you attack well meaning people with their poor immediate results...to get them out of office no matter what the long term implications are likely to be.

Which is one reason I kinda favor either much longer...or shorter terms. Get reelection off peoples minds. Let a guy know hes gone in 2 years no matter what....and cant run again for 10 years. Let them do what they think will work....without having to show how it worked next year to get back in. Or let them stay in place for 10 years...for the same reason.

Maybe someone would grow some balls.

5 years after Georgia enacted their anti-immigration bill, a group of bipartisan Congressmen from the State are lobbying Labor Secretary Tom Perez to expedite work Visas for Mexican farmers (http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/05/06/georgia-congressmen-call-on-feds-to-act-on-farm-worker-backlog/). The labor shortage is threatening to cost the State many millions of dollars (http://www.myajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/losses-grow-for-georgia-farmers-waiting-on-feds-to/nrGQn/).

Georgia has one of the highest unemployment rates in the U.S.

These are jobs that Americans simply don't want to do, it's been proven time and time again. Again, Georgia became so desperate after their self-inflicted crisis that they were willing to go the old school confederate route and use slave labor (http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/04/14/prison-ag-labor) to fill the labor shortage... And they're still desperate now to get more migrants into their State.

[KyrieTheFuture]

People in the past did and people now do as well. North Dakota was overtaken by out of staters when the oil boom hit.
Oil pays a lot more

Over 30% of young black males in Baltimore are unemployed.


So, they shouldnt be made to go find work wherever they can get it, because "this isnt the goldrush?"


Youre not good at making sense.


You are habitually terrible at it.
Why are you blaming northern states? Alabama spends way more on welfare. Clearly farmers can't or won't raise wages high enough, it's been long enough to see that. If you're trying to argue to get rid of all welfare in addition to this law, well, people would just leave Alabama.

[DonDadda59]

Too many people have idle time on their hands and they know society will support them regardless of what they do. Those junkies in New Hampshire probably didnt go pick up a shovel in Alabama because they get plenty of welfare back home, why would they?

Talk about scatter-brained nonsense. First it was the immigrants' fault that heroin/opioid use was skyrocketing in the NE... Now the junkies are abusing/dying at alarming rates because of welfare?

Which is it?

Also, 60% of New Hampshire public assistance spending went to working families. NH has one of the highest employment and lowest poverty rates in the Country.

Try again.

[Akrazotile]

Georgia has one of the highest unemployment rates in the U.S.

These are jobs that Americans simply don't want to do, it's been proven time and time again. Again, Georgia became so desperate after their self-inflicted crisis that they were willing to go the old school confederate route and use slave labor (http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/04/14/prison-ag-labor) to fill the labor shortage... And they're still desperate now to get more migrants into their State.


NOBODY in America WANTS to work. Everyone would rather chill out. But people do what they have to do to live the life that suits them.

Unemployed people in Georgia clearly get tons of government support. Business and their government puppets would rather string along broke people with welfare and pay illegal, intimidated, non-english speaking workers than have Americans start doing labor and demanding a decent wage for it.

This is an intentional cycle of bringing in poor, helpless people to do America's dirty work instead of have Americans do it under better wages and conditions.


And the support for it from the left is simply about "showing up those arrogant white people who are big0ts vs the brown people!"

Its just like BLM not caring about sky high black homicide, but only get upset when a black person dies by a white person. The insult and the implied arrogance is a bigger deal to them than the actual problems of poverty, disease, teen pregnancy, violence, murder. Hey, who cares, right? I got my life to live. "Oh, but wait, someone was killed (extremely rarely) bc theyre black! Thats kind of an insult to me too! So now Im upset!!!"

Same thing with this shit. Oh, these white people dont like minorities?? How arrogant! Well, Im gonna spite them every time then. Doesnt matter if it helps or hurts me, or the country, or other black folks. MUST SPITE ARROGANT WHITEY!!!


The emotions over the rational thinking.

[Akrazotile]

Talk about scatter-brained nonsense. First it was the immigrants' fault that heroin/opioid use was skyrocketing in the NE... Now the junkies are abusing/dying at alarming rates because of welfare?

Which is it?

Also, 60% of New Hampshire public assistance spending went to working families. NH has one of the highest employment and lowest poverty rates in the Country.

Try again.

Ok, well, then give me more of a snapshot on who exactly is dying of heroine ODs in New Hampshire. I don't know much about the problem. I guess it's not the unemployed. Maybe guys in middle management? Car salesman? I don't know. Fill me in and I'll take another stab at it.

If there's no connection between drug deaths and the welfare culture, I'll gladly retract my assumption.

[Kblaze8855]

5 years after Georgia enacted their anti-immigration bill, a group of bipartisan Congressmen from the State are lobbying Labor Secretary Tom Perez to expedite work Visas for Mexican farmers. The labor shortage is threatening to cost the State many millions of dollars.

Georgia has one of the highest unemployment rates in the U.S.

These are jobs that Americans simply don't want to do, it's been proven time and time again. Again, Georgia became so desperate after their self-inflicted crisis that they were willing to go the old school confederate route and use slave labor to fill the labor shortage... And they're still desperate now to get more migrants into their State.

As I said...long term. 5 years is not that.

Peaches wont simply cease to exist...farms would go under....those that remain would be forced to pay more...life goes on. But as I said...when you are looking to prove something doesnt work by pointing out shortterm issues(yes....5 years is short term when trying to change a culture) ...you end it before it gets anywhere.

The idea that americans simply wont pick fruit or hang drywall or cut grass is just a joke.

Ive done two of the three myself...and if I had to pick fruit to feed my children I would.

I just wouldnt do it for 30 bucks a day when I can get a real job.

[DonDadda59]

Ok, well, then give me more of a snapshot on who exactly is dying of heroine ODs in New Hampshire. I don't know much about the problem. I guess it's not the unemployed. Maybe guys in middle management? Car salesman? I don't know. Fill me in and I'll take another stab at it.

If there's no connection between drug deaths and the welfare culture, I'll gladly retract my assumption.

90% White, Middle Class, Suburbanite (http://time.com/135695/heroin-white-suburbs/)

And no it wasn't immigrants or welfare that led to the modern Heroin user being 90% White, higher on the economic ladder, and most likely from the suburbs.

It was caused by the prescription drug craze. Now think about what sort of person would have easy access to prescription drugs.

But that's a subject for a different thread. Try to gather your thoughts and focus on the subject at hand. :cheers:

[DonDadda59]

As I said...long term. 5 years is not that.

The United States' agriculture industry has relied on migrants for FAR longer than just 5 years.

Georgia/Alabama is just a recent case study. It's just part of a much longer trend that goes back many decades.

[Long Duck Dong]

5 years after Georgia enacted their anti-immigration bill, a group of bipartisan Congressmen from the State are lobbying Labor Secretary Tom Perez to expedite work Visas for Mexican farmers (http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2016/05/06/georgia-congressmen-call-on-feds-to-act-on-farm-worker-backlog/). The labor shortage is threatening to cost the State many millions of dollars (http://www.myajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/losses-grow-for-georgia-farmers-waiting-on-feds-to/nrGQn/).

Georgia has one of the highest unemployment rates in the U.S.

These are jobs that Americans simply don't want to do, it's been proven time and time again. Again, Georgia became so desperate after their self-inflicted crisis that they were willing to go the old school confederate route and use slave labor (http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/04/14/prison-ag-labor) to fill the labor shortage... And they're still desperate now to get more migrants into their State.


California has the exact same unemployment rate as Georgia and they have LOTS of Mexicans there willing to work. :oldlol:

Another thing is, Georgia's income average increase has literally DOUBLED the national average in the last 2 years. Whatever they are doing, they need to keep it up. :applause:


http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/georgia/

[Akrazotile]

90% White, Middle Class, Suburbanite (http://time.com/135695/heroin-white-suburbs/)

And no it wasn't immigrants or welfare that led to the modern Heroin user being 90% White, higher on the economic ladder, and most likely from the suburbs.

It was caused by the prescription drug craze. Now think about what sort of person would have easy access to prescription drugs.



I'm absolutely with you. Prescription drugs are a huge problem, and much of the difficulty in combating them comes from the resources the pharmaceutical industry puts into making them rampant.

Also, all these issues are not isolated. They would all be helped by a collective effort to improve family structure, increase government transparency/integrity, reduce welfare culture, have better management of who comes into our country and why... They're all connected. There is overlap and they do effect each other. Of course not every incident in one area directly ties to another. But they could all use a thorough improvement.

I personally don't care whether an idea or a belief is traditionally liberal or conservative. If it's good for this country, for our communities, for future generations that we'll bring into the world... then I'm with it. That's why I think we should take a conservative approach to immigration. Not a zero-admittance policy. But a policy that WE control as citizens, and make determinations on. Not simply a "come one, come all!" policy that let's wealthy business interests suck up more dollars at the expense of the environment, our culture, and community resources. I don't think that's sound in the longterm. It's been shown not to be by previous civilizations.

[DonDadda59]

California has the exact same unemployment rate as Georgia and they have LOTS of Mexicans there willing to work. :oldlol:

California doesn't have any Draconian immigration law and they are #1 in terms of economic output/growth in the country. They actually recently passed several immigration friendly laws (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/california-immigration-laws-illegals/2015/10/24/id/698882/) :confusedshrug:

Now their State economy is due to outpace the United States by 2020 (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-economy-growth-20150929-story.html).


Another thing is, Georgia's income average increase has literally DOUBLED the national average in the last 2 years. Whatever they are doing, they need to keep it up. :applause:


http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/georgia/

Georgia reversed their anti-migrant laws and have lobbied the Labor department to let more Mexicans into the State. That's what they've done. :confusedshrug:

[Dresta]

GDP is not God. Stop worshipping it like such an idiot.


90% White, Middle Class, Suburbanite (http://time.com/135695/heroin-white-suburbs/)

And no it wasn't immigrants or welfare that led to the modern Heroin user being 90% White, higher on the economic ladder, and most likely from the suburbs.

It was caused by the prescription drug craze. Now think about what sort of person would have easy access to prescription drugs.

But that's a subject for a different thread. Try to gather your thoughts and focus on the subject at hand. :cheers:
Someone with criminal connections, a doctor, or access to the internet?

[Akrazotile]

California doesn't have any Draconian immigration law and they are #1 in terms of economic output/growth in the country. They actually recently passed several immigration friendly laws (http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/california-immigration-laws-illegals/2015/10/24/id/698882/) :confusedshrug:

Now their State economy is due to outpace the United States by 2020 (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-economy-growth-20150929-story.html).




So if things are so hunky dory economically in California, why is it that 57% Of People Living In Los Angeles Can't Afford To Live In Los Angeles (http://la.curbed.com/2015/3/19/9978912/57-percent-of-people-living-in-los-angeles-cant-afford-to-live-in-los)?

Cali has a big GDP. So why are people struggling to live?

How could that possibly be?


From the article:


Los Angeles has the largest disparity between wages and rents in the entire nation, it's the least affordable place in the US for buying a house, and it's generally just a tough place to make ends meet, but it's still pretty shocking to learn that about 4.6 million people—57.3 percent of LA—are not enjoying even a "modest-but-adequate standard of living," says a study out from the Economic Policy Institute.


Dat immigration effect :applause:

[Dresta]

So if things are so hunky dory economically in California, why is the LA Times running articles detailing the fact that 57% Of People Living In Los Angeles Can't Afford To Live In Los Angeles (http://la.curbed.com/2015/3/19/9978912/57-percent-of-people-living-in-los-angeles-cant-afford-to-live-in-los)

Cali has a big GDP. So why are people struggling to live?

How could that possibly be?
Been to downtown LA at night? Looks like the f*cking third world. The only country i've been to with such depressing sites on display is India.

[DonDadda59]

So if things are so hunky dory economically in California, why is the LA Times running articles detailing the fact that 57% Of People Living In Los Angeles Can't Afford To Live In Los Angeles (http://la.curbed.com/2015/3/19/9978912/57-percent-of-people-living-in-los-angeles-cant-afford-to-live-in-los)

Cali has a big GDP. So why are people struggling to live?

How could that possibly be?

Wages aren't keeping up with inflation.

Or... ARE THEY? (http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article69842317.html) :crazysam:

[Akrazotile]

You have a million people within a city radius each working for a dollar a day. There's hardly any space to live, breathe, play.

But all those people are pumping out lots of goods that a few people at the top are getting rich from.



This is Dadda's paradise.

[Kblaze8855]

The United States' agriculture industry has relied on migrants for FAR longer than just 5 years.

Georgia/Alabama is just a recent case study. It's just part of a much longer trend that goes back many decades.

Which is why it will take....far longer than just 5 years to fix. You didn't see that was my point?

You don't change things like this and come back quickly to talk about them being a failure or success. That's just to push ones own political leanings.

Major change takes major time. But people wont give change time....because the disarray that comes quickly allows them to attack the other team.

This is how we get nowhere.

[DonDadda59]

Which is why it will take....far longer than just 5 years to fix. You didn't see that was my point?

You don't change things like this and come back quickly to talk about them being a failure or success. That's just to push ones own political leanings.

Major change takes major time. But people wont give change time....because the disarray that comes quickly allows them to attack the other team.

This is how we get nowhere.

You can go back to the Braceros and Operation Wetback.

Rinse and Repeat.

Got real life stuff to take care of. I'm out.

[Dresta]

You have a million people within a city radius each working for a dollar a day. There's hardly any space to live, breathe, play.

But all those people are pumping out lots of goods that a few people at the top are getting rich from.



This is Dadda's paradise.
Indeed, it's like he would concrete over the entire country, and turn the entire place into one vast urban slum, if it'd only boost the GDP aggregation! Focusing myopically on this stat has done incalculable harm to the world.

[DeuceWallaces]

Drywall and landscaping are one thing. I'd like to know what the going hourly rate to get American born poor to work in migrant agriculture and the subsequent impact on food prices. The blueberry and chicken farms I've seen and read about are a tough sell to American born.

[UK2K]

Now their State economy is due to outpace the United States by 2020 (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-california-economy-growth-20150929-story.html).


So they'll be in the top half of the country? Cause, you know, that's all that means.

From your link:


California's unemployment rate is currently at 6.1%, higher than the U.S. rate of 5.1%.
:oldlol:


But wage growth has not kept pace with rising home prices -- a particular problem in California.

And the problem doesn't show signs of improving. The LAEDC report found that only 30% of California households could afford to buy a home at the median price in the second quarter of this year, down from 34% in the first quarter.
:oldlol:

The beacon of hope...

All the resources in the world and still they managed to run up a debt that will never be paid off in my lifetime.

[Akrazotile]

Drywall and landscaping are one thing. I'd like to know what the going hourly rate to get American born poor to work in migrant agriculture and the subsequent impact on food prices. The blueberry and chicken farms I've seen and read about are a tough sell to American born.


They would go up. So what?

Some of the nicest countries in Europe have higher food prices than the US. That's also why they're not morbidly obese across every age group.

What does anything you're saying have to do with quality of life?

Problem is, you START with the premise "ok, how can I take a position that sympathizes with minorities and upsets conservatives? Well, I guess I have to be pro-immigration."

Your take on this issue has nothing to do with whether you've objectively analyzed it as good for the country as a whole. You are trying to reach a conclusion that will posture you within a certain group, in a certain light, and enable you to get laid by left wing females. Traditional women don't want anything to do with your awkward, hermaphrodite ass, so you have to sexually pander to ugly liberal women. You're a cuck. You're trying to please them by agreeing with them and hoping to get your dick wet.

If the only way that the ugly fringe losers like you could get with women was to hate other groups? That's what you'd do. Because you're pathetic and needy, you don't have the luxury of being an objective thinker. You have to posture. And that's what you do. But liberal feminsts are all about the 'white male patriarchy cisgender microaggressors are evil' so you dutifully parrot that shit in an attempt to cuck yourself into some attention from the wimmenz. Nice going. You are the most pathetic kind of male in existence.

[Akrazotile]

Indeed, it's like he would concrete over the entire country, and turn the entire place into one vast urban slum, if it'd only boost the GDP aggregation! Focusing myopically on this stat has done incalculable harm to the world.

The problem is simply that his purpose is distorted, even if he won't admit it or doesn't realize it.

His main purpose in discussions like these is "sympathize with foreign brown people." That's his objective first and foremost, so he decides on what position to take accordingly. And tailors his arguments in kind.

The purpose SHOULD be: "Determine what's best for the citizens - of all races/colors - who live in the country NOW." And then analysis of cause and effect and what the options are should flow from there.

But I guess it's because America is still majority white, or for some other personal issue/reason, that lefties don't want to start with the premise of "What's best for Americans?"

They want to start with the premise of "how do we demonstrate our pity for minorities or social underdogs?" And then everything they 'think' flows from there. How to throw the biggest pity party. How to posture themselves as the grand rescuer. How to soapbox and preach and grandstand. They're putting their social identity ahead of what's best for the country. It's an unfortunate thing.

[resin_baller]

One thing I'm going to say here, that a lot of people aren't thinking about, is that the reason a lot of these jobs aren't being taken, is because they aren't advertised through normal networks. I've tried to find low farm jobs and construction jobs, and had absolutely no luck. Every single job I found required experience, certifications, or degrees. The only time I was able to find an actual no experience needed labor jobs, it wasn't by doing job searches on the internet, visiting employers, or looking in classifieds. It was being told about a job by a guy in the back of a bar.

The job networks that most illegal employees and employers use are more developed than you might expect, and they're not the same networks that american born poor use to look for jobs. The pay and hard labor isn't the problem for alot of people(it might be for for some). The problem is that the people hiring and the people who want to work are looking in different places, and if you shut down the old hiring networks no one will be able to find jobs until new hiring networks replace them.

[poido123]

NOBODY in America WANTS to work. Everyone would rather chill out. But people do what they have to do to live the life that suits them.

Unemployed people in Georgia clearly get tons of government support. Business and their government puppets would rather string along broke people with welfare and pay illegal, intimidated, non-english speaking workers than have Americans start doing labor and demanding a decent wage for it.

This is an intentional cycle of bringing in poor, helpless people to do America's dirty work instead of have Americans do it under better wages and conditions.


And the support for it from the left is simply about "showing up those arrogant white people who are big0ts vs the brown people!"

Its just like BLM not caring about sky high black homicide, but only get upset when a black person dies by a white person. The insult and the implied arrogance is a bigger deal to them than the actual problems of poverty, disease, teen pregnancy, violence, murder. Hey, who cares, right? I got my life to live. "Oh, but wait, someone was killed (extremely rarely) bc theyre black! Thats kind of an insult to me too! So now Im upset!!!"

Same thing with this shit. Oh, these white people dont like minorities?? How arrogant! Well, Im gonna spite them every time then. Doesnt matter if it helps or hurts me, or the country, or other black folks. MUST SPITE ARROGANT WHITEY!!!


The emotions over the rational thinking.



Good post.


These Libs can't handle hard truth, they don't often argue with facts for good reason.

[masonanddixon]

America is done. She had a good run. It's all over. The American Dream has been replaced by rampant corporatism and overdevelopment, encouraged and perpetuated by liberal faggggggottttry.

[Sarcastic]

Over 30% of young black males in Baltimore are unemployed.


So, they shouldnt be made to go find work wherever they can get it, because "this isnt the goldrush?"


Youre not good at making sense.


You are habitually terrible at it.


Wait what? This isn't Communist China. It's against our Constitution to make someone go do something they don't want to do.

[UK2K]

Wait what? This isn't Communist China. It's against our Constitution to make someone go do something they don't want to do.

I don't believe he was advocating for buses to round up unemployed people and take them down to work on farms...

But he was stating that if you 'can't find work', there are plenty of jobs to be had if you're willing to find them.

[Sarcastic]

I don't believe he was advocating for buses to round up unemployed people and take them down to work on farms...

But he was stating that if you 'can't find work', there are plenty of jobs to be had if you're willing to find them.

And like the other poster said, this isn't the gold rush. No one is running down south to pick fruit for wages that don't even make ends meet.

[UK2K]

And like the other poster said, this isn't the gold rush. No one is running down south to pick fruit for wages that don't even make ends meet.

Ok, sit there and be poor, I don't give a ****. :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Ok, sit there and be poor, I don't give a ****. :oldlol:

No one gets rich picking fruit.

[UK2K]

No one gets rich picking fruit.

Nobody gets rich being a warehouse worker either...

Until you are a warehouse worker, then a team lead, then a supervisor, than a manager... Like our current warehouse manager. Imagine, a 600,000 sq ft warehouse run (partially) by a 24 year old dude with a high school education. Been working here since he was 17, and I'd venture to say (cause I don't know exactly) he makes about ~$55k. Not bad.

Nobody gets rich doing a lot of jobs.

[Akrazotile]

Wait what? This isn't Communist China. It's against our Constitution to make someone go do something they don't want to do.

:wtf:


The point is if we stop giving people government money whenever they dont feel like working, theyll have to take the work they can get in order to support themselves.

Do you not read? stalkerforlife has his entire existence paid for by the government while he trolls the internet all day. There are millions in America doing this. If they do not have that option, they will have to go find work. Wherever that is. Just as people have done through all of history and just as foreign immigrants still attenpt to do here.

Let's slash the easily defrauded handout system that is paying tens of thousands each year to countless healthy, capable citizens and then find out which jobs people will or wont do.

[UK2K]

:wtf:


The point is if we stop giving people government money whenever they dont feel like working, theyll have to take the work they can get in order to support themselves.

Do you not read? stalkerforlife has his entire existence paid for by the government while he trolls the internet all day. There are millions in America doing this. If they do not have that option, they will have to go find work. Wherever that is. Just as people have done through all of history and just as foreign immigrants still attenpt to do here.

Let's slash the easily defrauded handout system that is paying tens of thousands each year to countless healthy, capable citizens and then find out which jobs people will or wont do.

http://thegatewaypundit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/feed-animals.jpg