Why do ISH posters put such a high value on PER?

[hateraid]

It's a neat formula but I don't get why it's such a go to on here?
To me it's like trusting Sports Science to evaluate players.

[TheWinningFam]

Most only use it when it supports their agenda, i avoid it since its kinda useless and has too many errors although it can be helpful sometimes

[feyki]

Cause that's the easiest way.

[MP.Trey]

Advanced stats are garbage to me. Give me the base stats, give me some game tape and let me decide who's the best at this or that. These PER/DRPM/Whatever formulas can be severely misleading and I don't trust them.

[TrueBlue89]

Thing is even stat geeks abandoned PER a long time ago.

[livingby3's]

whatever suits the agenda

[WayOfWad3]

I like it, but never use it as an end-all point in an argument. For the most part though, PER recognizes the best players in the league, so it's a good indicator of who is better than the rest

[greatest-ever]

It can overrate and underrate certain players, but other than that seems like a solid metric.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

RPM/RAPM is by far the best advanced stat (not boxscore based). PER/Winshares are basically useless. PER is NBA passer rating - Just a collection of raw stats.

Also, people on here use it much less than on other sites.

[Derka]

ISH posters put the most value on whatever stat, real or imagined, makes their guy look better than someone else's guy.

[tmacattack33]

If used right there is no problem with it.

It's a conglomerate of all the stats.

If you want to see who had the best stats for a given season, look at PER and you'll usually have your answer.



Of course, that won't tell you who the best player is. To see who the best player is, you'll have to add in your own judgement of that player's defense/off-the ball offense/intangibles/hustle/bball IQ and other things that don't show up in stats.

[CTbasketball92]

Funny enough, MJ and LeBron have the two highest career PERs of all time ... and honestly, I think that's pretty telling. They're pretty much 1A and 1B in my mind. PER probably underrates Bird, Magic ... and Kobe a bit too.


A Year For the Ages: 35.0 - unheard of
Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0 - Truly elite, the LeBron's, Curry's, MJ's, peak Dwade and Chris Paul
Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5 - top 5 most likely
Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0 - top 7 player usually
Bona fide All-Star: 22.5 - borderline superstar, if not outright superstar
Borderline All-Star: 20.0 - id say generally all star
2nd Pineapple: 18.0 - about right
3rd Banana: 16.5 - wiggins at this point?
Pretty good player: 15.0
In the rotation: 13.0
Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
Definitely renting: 9.0
The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0

seems about right to me.

[MP.Trey]

Funny enough, MJ and LeBron have the two highest career PERs of all time ... and honestly, I think that's pretty telling. They're pretty much 1A and 1B in my mind. PER probably underrates Bird, Magic ... and Kobe a bit too.


A Year For the Ages: 35.0 - unheard of
Runaway MVP Candidate: 30.0 - Truly elite, the LeBron's, Curry's, MJ's, peak Dwade and Chris Paul
Strong MVP Candidate: 27.5 - top 5 most likely
Weak MVP Candidate: 25.0 - top 7 player usually
Bona fide All-Star: 22.5 - borderline superstar, if not outright superstar
Borderline All-Star: 20.0 - id say generally all star
2nd Pineapple: 18.0 - about right
3rd Banana: 16.5 - wiggins at this point?
Pretty good player: 15.0
In the rotation: 13.0
Scrounging for minutes: 11.0
Definitely renting: 9.0
The Next Stop: DLeague 5.0

seems about right to me.
Boban Marjanovic fits into the "top 5 most likely" category.

[CTbasketball92]

Boban Marjanovic fits into the "top 5 most likely" category.

Should've added the caveat that you have to have a large enough sample of games, and really just compare people at similar positions -- bigs to bigs, guards to ball dominant wings to guards.

Also assess team situation.

[Nastradamus]

Advanced stats are garbage to me. Give me the base stats, give me some game tape and let me decide who's the best at this or that. These PER/DRPM/Whatever formulas can be severely misleading and I don't trust them.

Lol, base stats are even more misleaading, so that's a pretty stupid thing to say

[warriorfan]

Boban Marjanovic fits into the "top 5 most likely" category.

You are drawing incorrect conconclusions, it seems that you do not know how PER works

PER gets calculated on a per minute basis, I assume that's where the name comes from, you are assessing a players impact "PER" Minute

It examines the rate at which a player preformed and doesn't account for the minutes

EXAMPLE

If a player A plays 20 mins a game and has a PER of 25

And player B plays 35 mins a game and has a PER of 25

What that tells us is that they are both performing at the same rate or theoretically if player A played for 35 minutes a game he would have the statistical output of Player B, and vice versa if player B only played 20 minutes a game he would have the same statistical output as player A

So, PER is the RATE, minutes played is the VOLUME over which that rate was played at

In Summary

You should only use PER for comparisons for players with similar minutes played. PER can overstate players with low minutes per game because it represents the RATE of their production. It basically means that Boban had superstar impact WHEN he played, however he only played 9 minutes per game.

So Boban's PER at 9 minutes per game should only be compared to other players with similar minutes per game (5 to 15), Boban's PER should not be compared to starting players who play more than 30 minutes per game

I hope you were able to learn something

[MP.Trey]

Lol, base stats are even more misleaading, so that's a pretty stupid thing to say
Not if you have the game tape to see how it was done. Or the knowledge to differentiate meaningful stats/plays from miniscule stats/plays. These stat formulas can all be traced back to the regular stats you see on a box score. I'm not going to give somebody's predetermined math formula more credit than my own basketball knowledge given the basics.

[MP.Trey]

You are drawing incorrect conconclusions, it seems that you do not know how PER works

PER gets calculated on a per minute basis, I assume that's where the name comes from, you are assessing a players impact "PER" Minute

It examines the rate at which a player preformed and doesn't account for the minutes

EXAMPLE

If a player A plays 20 mins a game and has a PER of 25

And player B plays 35 mins a game and has a PER of 25

What that tells us is that they are both performing at the same rate or theoretically if player A played for 35 minutes a game he would have the statistical output of Player B, and vice versa if player B only played 20 minutes a game he would have the same statistical output as player A

So, PER is the RATE, minutes played is the VOLUME over which that rate was played at

In Summary

You should only use PER for comparisons for players with similar minutes played. PER can overstate players with low minutes per game because it represents the RATE of their production. It basically means that Boban had superstar impact WHEN he played, however he only played 9 minutes per game.

So Boban's PER at 9 minutes per game should only be compared to other players with similar minutes per game (5 to 15), Boban's PER should not be compared to starting players who play more than 30 minutes per game

I hope you were able to learn something

I understand how stats work. My statement still isn't wrong when referring to the post I quoted.

So we put Boban and LeBron each in the game for 9 minutes. You think they have similar impact?

[ISHGoat]

You are drawing incorrect conconclusions, it seems that you do not know how PER works

PER gets calculated on a per minute basis, I assume that's where the name comes from, you are assessing a players impact "PER" Minute

It examines the rate at which a player preformed and doesn't account for the minutes

EXAMPLE

If a player A plays 20 mins a game and has a PER of 25

And player B plays 35 mins a game and has a PER of 25

What that tells us is that they are both performing at the same rate or theoretically if player A played for 35 minutes a game he would have the statistical output of Player B, and vice versa if player B only played 20 minutes a game he would have the same statistical output as player A

So, PER is the RATE, minutes played is the VOLUME over which that rate was played at

In Summary

You should only use PER for comparisons for players with similar minutes played. PER can overstate players with low minutes per game because it represents the RATE of their production. It basically means that Boban had superstar impact WHEN he played, however he only played 9 minutes per game.

So Boban's PER at 9 minutes per game should only be compared to other players with similar minutes per game (5 to 15), Boban's PER should not be compared to starting players who play more than 30 minutes per game

I hope you were able to learn something

cringe

[warriorfan]

I understand how stats work. My statement still isn't wrong when referring to the post I quoted.

So we put Boban and LeBron each in the game for 9 minutes. You think they have similar impact?

No, that is not how it works

LeBron would play better, especially in 9 minutes since he would be able to play more intensely than his motor allows over a span of 35+ minutes per game

PER is not meant to be extrapolated in order to predict hypothetical scenarios

PER is meant for side by side comparisons of players with similar minutes played and from the same year