MJ and Lebron Career Finals Stats, post 2016 Finals

[3ball]

.
JORDAN:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.8 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 reb.. 7.2 apg.. 4.1 tov.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.1 fg



A team can win with less rebounds or assists, but never if they score less.. So scoring is a more important category than rebounds and assists.

And since #1 options control the scoring and flow more than anyone else (it's their job description), Jordan's massive scoring and efficiency advantage is far more important than Lebron's replaceable defensive rebounds against small ball lineups, or 1 assist edge achieved via Westbrook-like time (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/player/possessions/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Playoffs&sort=TIME_OF_POSS&dir=1&PORound=4) of possession.

[Ben Simmons]

Lebron beat a 73 win team.

[Mr Feeny]

What are Lebron's numbers not including 2007 when he dragged a bunch of d-leaguers to the finals almost single handedly?

What are Lebron's numbers sans the improbably run in 2007 as a kid?

[TheWinningFam]

Midrange is the worse shot in the game and jordan would be a demarr derozan in todays game :facepalm

[dankok8]

You made some mistakes. These are the actual stats.

Jordan: 33.6 ppg, 6.0 rpg, 6.0 apg, 1.8 spg, 0.7 bpg on 48.1 %FG/55.9 %TS with 2.4 topg in 43.0 mpg (35 games)

Lebron: 27.0 ppg, 9.9 rpg, 7.2 apg, 1.9 spg, 0.9 bpg on 45.5 %FG/53.4 %TS with 3.9 topg in 42.7 mpg (40 games)


Jordan has an edge but Lebron faced better defensive teams in the Finals. Six out of the top seven defensive teams faced by either guy are Lebron's opponents.

2007 Spurs - 99.9
2015 Warriors - 101.4
2013 Spurs - 101.6
1996 Sonics - 102.1
2014 Spurs - 102.4
2012 Thunder - 103.2
2016 Warriors - 103.8
1997 Jazz -104.0
1992 Blazers - 104.2
2011 Mavericks - 105.0
1991 Lakers - 105.0
1998 Jazz - 105.4
1993 Suns - 106.7

[ScalsFan21]

You made some mistakes.

That's just what 3bs wants you to think. Believe me, he's world-renowned for his mysterious tweaking of tenths. Funny how it always seems to favor his boy Mike when it happens. Far from a mistake. Overall good post though.

[J Shuttlesworth]

More assists means your creating more points for other teammate, so it is directly related to scoring.
Getting more rebounds means you're preventing the other team from getting second chance opportunities and potentially scoring.

Ignoring those stats is so pathetic, even for 3ball.

[TheWinningFam]

Jordan would be demarr deroazan in today's game.

Kobe is a good example of what jordan would look like in todays era except kobe was a BETTER three point shooter than jordan... otoh jordan couldn't make a three to save his father

Kobe was only somewhat effecient from mid range because he had decent three point shooting ability, otoh in todays nba players would sag off jordan and force him to make that 3 pointer and when he tried to drive in for that midrange he'd be met by a soft shadowed double team, which is a much tougher double team than those seen in the 90s expansion era

[Im Still Ballin]

http://www.mmameme.com/media/created/zgr3fa.jpg

[3ball]

Jordan has an edge but Lebron faced better defensive teams in the Finals. Six out of the top seven defensive teams faced by either guy are Lebron's opponents.

2007 Spurs - 99.9
2015 Warriors - 101.4
2013 Spurs - 101.6
1996 Sonics - 102.1
2014 Spurs - 102.4
2012 Thunder - 103.2
2016 Warriors - 103.8
1997 Jazz -104.0
1992 Blazers - 104.2
2011 Mavericks - 105.0
1991 Lakers - 105.0
1998 Jazz - 105.4
1993 Suns - 106.7



Statisticians have shown that points per 100 possessions (ORtg) is higher when offensive rebounding rate is higher, which occurred back when bigs crashed the glass more and didn't have to guard the perimeter or 3-pointers



Looking at the league-average level, the takeaway is this: an NBA team generally improves on offense by about 0.62 points per 100 possessions for each percentage point increase in its offensive rebound rate. This means that if NBA teams were to improve their offensive rebounding from 23% (where it is now) to 30% (where it was a few years ago), they would generally score about 4.3 points more per 100 possessions.

https://gravityandlevity.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/the-value-of-improved-offensive-rebounding/
http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/01/06/offensive-rebounds-and-three-pointers/




From Grantland:


The general conclusion the authors presented at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in March, based on data from the 2011-12 season, was that teams could net about four extra points per game by recalibrating their philosophy toward offensive rebounding — that teams were being too cautious.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/party-crashers-debunking-the-myths-of-offensive-rebounding-and-transition-defense/



The different style of play in previous eras and resulting higher offensive rebounding rate is why people are wrong for comparing DRtg across eras.






Jordan has an edge but Lebron faced better defensive teams in the Finals. Six out of the top seven defensive teams faced by either guy are Lebron's opponents.

2007 Spurs - 99.9
2015 Warriors - 101.4
2013 Spurs - 101.6
1996 Sonics - 102.1
2014 Spurs - 102.4
2012 Thunder - 103.2
2016 Warriors - 103.8
1997 Jazz -104.0
1992 Blazers - 104.2
2011 Mavericks - 105.0
1991 Lakers - 105.0
1998 Jazz - 105.4
1993 Suns - 106.7


Those are regular season DRtg's, which don't matter.

The 98' Jazz had a 100.3 playoff DRtg, which is lower than anything Lebron ever faced in the Finals.

In 2016, the Warriors' playoff DRtg was only 106, and only 109 in the Finals, which are both higher than several of Jordan's Finals opponents.





2007 Spurs - 99.9
2015 Warriors - 101.4
2013 Spurs - 101.6
1996 Sonics - 102.1
2014 Spurs - 102.4
2012 Thunder - 103.2
2016 Warriors - 103.8
1997 Jazz -104.0
1992 Blazers - 104.2
2011 Mavericks - 105.0
1991 Lakers - 105.0
1998 Jazz - 105.4
1993 Suns - 106.7


Even if you don't believe the statistical facts about how offensive rebounding rate (and therefore style of play) affect DRtg's, it's still an obvious fact that Jordan's 7 ppg advantage is barely offset by these marginal DRtg discrepancies.

This is especially true considering Jordan faced more defensive attention - Jordan achieved 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals by averaging 16 ppg more than his 2nd option, compared to 2 ppg for Lebron.. So the defense had to pay attention to Kyrie almost as much as Lebron - it's no coincidence that Lebron shot 10 percentage points better this year (vs. last year) now that Kyrie's 27 ppg took some pressure off.

[dankok8]

Please don't cite playoff DRtg. Every team faces different opponents making those numbers meaningless. During the regular season every team faces more or less the same opposition and the numbers hold a lot more weight although there is still some variance.

A gap of 2 possessions in DRtg isn't a lot like you say but it's still significant. Jordan has an ORtg 3 points higher than Lebron (118 vs. 115) but his edge is just 1 point relative to league average. Lebron could score about 2 ppg higher and shoot a little better facing Jordan's opponents which with Lebron's edge in rebounding and assists would make their numbers very close to identical.

[ShawkFactory]

MJs finals stats are better than Lebrons.

It's like someone repeatedly making threads and telling people that Michael Caine is an old white guy.

What's to gain? It's just a well known fact...