Bigger Finals Choke: 2004 Kobe or 2016 Curry?

[Fudge]

Kobe Bryant - 2004 Finals

NARRATIVE: Possibly the 3rd most stacked team ever behind the 2016 AND 2017 Golden State Warriors. Only to be closed out in 5 games to the superstar-less Detroit Pistons. Shaq, as always, held his own. His sidekick failed to show up.

22 ppg
3 rpg
4 apg
38% FG
17% 3PT
4 TO



Result: Lost in 5 games, despite being the favorites.



Stephen Curry - 2016 NBA Finals

NARRATIVE: Coming off a back to back MVP season, and a historic regular season for the (as of now) greatest team EVER, little Stephen failed to step up in the Finals for the 2nd consecutive year, only to be outplayed by teammate Draymond Green. Curry missed his last 4 FGA, including a very crucial turnover late in the game. The Warriors end up losing the last three games of the series, and the G7 at home.

23 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
40% FG
40% 3PT
4 TO

Result: Lost in 7 games, despite being the favorites

[feyki]

2007 and 2011 .

[Mr Feeny]

Both were awful but Kobe was horrific. He singlehandedly lost them that title!

[lilteapot]

Curry easily.

He thought he could get away with playing like shit for the entire series and just conceding another Finals MVP to Iggy or Green or Klay. Easily most favored team in NBA history to win the title. Lost 3-1.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe Bryant - 2004 Finals

NARRATIVE: Possibly the 3rd most stacked team ever behind the 2016 AND 2017 Golden State Warriors. Only to be closed out in 5 games to the superstar-less Detroit Pistons. Shaq, as always, held his own. His sidekick failed to show up.

22 ppg
3 rpg
4 apg
38% FG
17% 3PT
4 TO



Result: Lost in 5 games, despite being the favorites.



Stephen Curry - 2016 NBA Finals

NARRATIVE: Coming off a back to back MVP season, and a historic regular season for the (as of now) greatest team EVER, little Stephen failed to step up in the Finals for the 2nd consecutive year, only to be outplayed by teammate Draymond Green. Curry missed his last 4 FGA, including a very crucial turnover late in the game. The Warriors end up losing the last three games of the series, and the G7 at home.

23 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
40% FG
40% 3PT
4 TO

Result: Lost in 7 games, despite being the favorites
38% and 17%3fg :biggums:

A blind man could make more shots than Kobrick :banana:

[warriorfan]

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg

The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that the healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production

[Mr Feeny]

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The major MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg

The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that the healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production

Agree that Curry >> any version on kobrick:lol

[Fudge]

Keep in mind that Kobe had...

Gary Payton
Karl Malone
Shaquille O'Neal

on his team.

Steph had...

Klay Thompson
Andre Iguodala
Draymond Green
Harrison Barnes

on his team.

Both stacked beyond belief.

[SouBeachTalents]

2011 LeBron, although Curry's Finals this year were honestly just as bad. His Game 7 performance, specifically the 4th quarter was WOAT level. Kobe didn't "choke" in '04, he just played horrendously

[ShawkFactory]

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg

The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that the healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production
:roll: :roll:

[Doctor K]

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg

The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that the healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production


The easy reply to this which you never have a counter to....



Where is the surgery you have been saying that will happen as a result of this major MCL injury? :roll: :roll: :roll:



As we stand, no surgery, and its more likely a fake injury

[ScalsFan21]

The answer to this is 2004 Kobe. I do admit that relative to my expectations for each player, 2011 LeBron was worse than either one, but I don't think Curry was 100% in these Finals from a physical standpoint. Still, 1 semi MVP-level game out of 7 tries was bad, no way around that.

Kobe literally... was just AWFUL. His numbers were brutal and his actual play somehow was even worse than that. I have a high level of respect for those Piston teams, but it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. I'm not sure I'd call it a "choke" necessarily; there were a lot of factors at play with that Lakers team. Not every bad performance on the big stage is automatically a result of the pressure.

I think Curry might have "choked" a bit more than Kobe mentally, but maybe I only feel that way because unlike the Brick Mamba, I hold Curry to a higher standard of on-court decision making and those kinds of things. So to see him make plays down the stretch like ill-advised behind the back feeds with no upside, or not taking the ball inside against Kevin Love and creating offense that way... it was surprising.

I'd been saying all season that if push comes to shove, Steph will tone down the flashy/sloppy BS, that it wasn't truly a major concern for him. And then he allowed it to pretty much be the final difference between winning and losing. All 3 were pathetic performances.

[warriorfan]

The easy reply to this which you never have a counter to....



Where is the surgery you have been saying that will happen as a result of this major MCL injury? :roll: :roll: :roll:



As we stand, no surgery, and its more likely a fake injury

Curry may still have surgery

Curry has also withdrawn from the Olympic USA team due to the knee injury

Now that Curry has the entire off season for recovery, it is quite possible Curry's doctors could elect for a recovery plan that does not involve invasive surgery

[Doctor K]

Curry may still have surgery

Curry has also withdrawn from the Olympic USA team due to the knee injury

Now that Curry has the entire off season for recovery, it is quite possible Curry's doctors could elect for a recovery plan that does not involve invasive surgery

Right, but in all cases of serious MCL injuries surgery is strongly recommended if not required over rest. And its what you were harping about all playoffs long was coming in the off-season. Still don't see any surgery :roll: how does it feel to be always wrong?


Guess this just wasn't serious...just the usual thing players play with. Or maybe it was nothing. Those are the only 2 options. The usual or nothing :roll:

[warriorfan]

Right, but in all cases of serious MCL injuries surgery is strongly recommended if not required over rest.


This is not true.



Guess this just wasn't serious...just the usual thing players play with. Or maybe it was nothing. Those are the only 2 options. The usual or nothing :roll:

Just the usual thing players play with? I don't think players usually play at superstar levels while suffering from knee ligament injuries.

Want to give an example of Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, or LeBron James of suffering an MCL/ACL injury during the playoffs and how it effected their play afterwards? :confusedshrug:

Then if you are going to sit here and say that Curry's MCL injury was "nothing", you are disregarding all of the facts and making irrational conclusions that do not make any sense.

[CTbasketball92]

Curry may still have surgery

Curry has also withdrawn from the Olympic USA team due to the knee injury

Now that Curry has the entire off season for recovery, it is quite possible Curry's doctors could elect for a recovery plan that does not involve invasive surgery

He had a grade 1 MCL sprain that usually takes anywhere from 1-3 weeks to recover from. That doesn't take into consideration that Curry was undoubtedly given the best treatment that money can buy. Curry looked mostly fine coming back, and after OKC, I thought he'd get a pretty efficient 26 ppg against the Cavs. I was wrong. Even last year, Curry relied waaayyyyy too much on his 3ball to always be effective. Curry is a great ballhandler, but he doesn't play downhill and he only dribbles to get off a long range jumper. When you play like someone who's "just a shooter," it's easier to be stopped.

[Doctor K]

This is not true.



Wrong. When the injury is severe enough that therapy and rest won't work, surgery is done. Curry's MCL injury was not severe. You yourself said all playoffs long it was so serious that he will get surgery, guess you were wrong. :roll:

[warriorfan]

He had a grade 1 MCL sprain that usually takes anywhere from 1-3 weeks to recover from. That doesn't take into consideration that Curry was undoubtedly given the best treatment that money can buy.

For a Grade 1 MCL Sprain, a 2-4 Week recovery time is a timetable for the average length of time to be cleared for everyday casual activity, at most walking up a flight of stairs. Not physically demanding and strenuous activity such as a professional basketball game.





Curry looked mostly fine coming back,


Well we are in agreement that he was not 100%, that is a start



Even last year, Curry relied waaayyyyy too much on his 3ball to always be effective. Curry is a great ballhandler, but he doesn't play downhill and he only dribbles to get off a long range jumper. When you play like someone who's "just a shooter," it's easier to be stopped.

You must not watch a lot of Golden State games.

Curry does not rely too much on his 3 point shot, and your assessment that he only dribbles to get off a long range jumper couldn't be further from the truth. You just exposed yourself who watches ESPN highlights where they show Curry's stepback 3's.


Over half of Curry's shots are below the 3 point line

http://thesportsquotient.com/media/posts/24515/curry%20shot%20range%20breakdown%202014_15_1.png


http://thesportsquotient.com/media/posts/24515/Restricted%20Area%20Shooting_1.png

http://thesportsquotient.com/media/posts/24515/Field%20Goal%20%25%20in%20the%20Paint%202015-16.png


You are currently batting 1000 for things that you have posted that ended up being wrong

Impressive :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

The answer to this is 2004 Kobe. I do admit that relative to my expectations for each player, 2011 LeBron was worse than either one, but I don't think Curry was 100% in these Finals from a physical standpoint. Still, 1 semi MVP-level game out of 7 tries was bad, no way around that.

Kobe literally... was just AWFUL. His numbers were brutal and his actual play somehow was even worse than that. I have a high level of respect for those Piston teams, but it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. I'm not sure I'd call it a "choke" necessarily; there were a lot of factors at play with that Lakers team. Not every bad performance on the big stage is automatically a result of the pressure.

I think Curry might have "choked" a bit more than Kobe mentally, but maybe I only feel that way because unlike the Brick Mamba, I hold Curry to a higher standard of on-court decision making and those kinds of things. So to see him make plays down the stretch like ill-advised behind the back feeds with no upside, or not taking the ball inside against Kevin Love and creating offense that way... it was surprising.

I'd been saying all season that if push comes to shove, Steph will tone down the flashy/sloppy BS, that it wasn't truly a major concern for him. And then he allowed it to pretty much be the final difference between winning and losing. All 3 were pathetic performances.


WHAT a post! :applause:

agree fully. Kobe is awful when the stakes are high:banana:

[tpols]

The answer to this is 2004 Kobe. I do admit that relative to my expectations for each player, 2011 LeBron was worse than either one, but I don't think Curry was 100% in these Finals from a physical standpoint. Still, 1 semi MVP-level game out of 7 tries was bad, no way around that.

Kobe literally... was just AWFUL. His numbers were brutal and his actual play somehow was even worse than that. I have a high level of respect for those Piston teams, but it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. I'm not sure I'd call it a "choke" necessarily; there were a lot of factors at play with that Lakers team. Not every bad performance on the big stage is automatically a result of the pressure.

I think Curry might have "choked" a bit more than Kobe mentally, but maybe I only feel that way because unlike the Brick Mamba, I hold Curry to a higher standard of on-court decision making and those kinds of things. So to see him make plays down the stretch like ill-advised behind the back feeds with no upside, or not taking the ball inside against Kevin Love and creating offense that way... it was surprising.

I'd been saying all season that if push comes to shove, Steph will tone down the flashy/sloppy BS, that it wasn't truly a major concern for him. And then he allowed it to pretty much be the final difference between winning and losing. All 3 were pathetic performances.

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. so yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate..

But in Curry's case, he just couldnt ever get the splash effect going.. a lot of in and outs, a lot of good looks, but they just werent dropping. Same with Klay. I really think it was a big case of "live by the 3, die by the 3" .. because Curry and Klay were hitting chains of circus shots in the WCFs under even more pressure coming back and always trailing, but the shots went in. Against Cleveland they just couldn't hit, and its impossible to will 3's in like a slasher can will layups. Not only are layups easier to finish and less luck involved, but you can draw fouls and collapse defense.. 3 pointers have a smaller margin for error.



An example of a true "choke" would be 2011 Lebron.. just inexplicable mental collapse.. with no logic for why it occured.

[Mr Feeny]

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. so yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate..

But in Curry's case, he just couldnt ever get the splash effect going.. a lot of in and outs, a lot of good looks, but they just werent dropping. Same with Klay. I really think it was a big case of "live by the 3, die by the 3" .. because Curry and Klay were hitting chains of circus shots in the WCFs under even more pressure coming back and always trailing, but the shots went in. Against Cleveland they just couldn't hit, and its impossible to will 3's in like a slasher can will layups. Not only are layups easier to finish and less luck involved, but you can draw fouls and collapse defense.. 3 pointers have a smaller margin for error.




An example of a true "choke" would be 2011 Lebron.. just inexplicable mental collapse.. with no logic for why it occured.


So why did kobe continue to hog the ball instead of giving it to his master "Shaq the freak"?:lol
Shaq was dominating Ben and scoring 26 ppg on 64%fg while Kobrick was busy building a house with those bricks to the tune of 38%:roll:

[warriorfan]

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. so yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate.


An example of a true "choke" would be 2011 Lebron.. just inexplicable mental collapse.. with no logic for why it occured.


Good examination of the context surrounding Kobe's 2004 Finals. Detroit was a GOAT level defensive squad and Larry Brown had them locked in. Detroit only gave up 100 or more points one time during the 2004 playoffs, and it was because the game went to 3x OT

Detroit had talent, coaching, and was utilizing illegal defense to a serious extent. In fact the Detroit team forced the league to review it's rules concerning illegal defense in the following season of 2004-2005

[quote]2004-05

[Mr Feeny]

Agree with everyone that Mr 22 ppg shooter on 38% was a worse performance :banana:

[tpols]

So why did kobe continue to hog the ball instead of giving it to his master "Shaq the freak"?:lol
Shaq was dominating Ben and scoring 26 ppg on 64%fg while Kobrick was busy building a house with those bricks to the tune of 38%:roll:


because he was being selfish, dummy.. a lot of idiots, much like yourself if you had been watching back then, disparaged him for his superstar contributions in previous years and he tried to do too much.



It wasnt a "choke" though.. 2011 Bran is in the dictionary as an example for that word, and its hilarious hearing you guys throw the term around because it will always boomerang right back at you lol

[Mr Feeny]

because he was being selfish, dummy.. a lot of idiots, much like yourself if you had been watching back then, disparaged him for his superstar contributions in previous years and he tried to do too much.



It wasnt a "choke" though.. 2011 Bran is in the dictionary as an example for that word, and its hilarious hearing you guys throw the term around because it will always boomerang right back at you lol

As long as you admit it was the worst performance by any superstar in finals history :banana:

LeBron averaging 17,7,8 on 47% while winning 2 games against the team that swept and embarassed kobrick 2 rounds earlier is choking for his standards? Maybe so bc he's a top 3 goat.

For Kobrick standards 47% is one of his all time performances :lebronamazed:

[Dragonyeuw]

Both were awful but Kobe was horrific. He singlehandedly lost them that title!

If Lebron played remotely close to the level he demonstrated throughout the ECF, the Heat win in 2011. Lebron's level of play dipped further relative to what he had demonstrated just the previous series against Chicago who were a tougher defensive team than the Mavs.

[jayfan]

I couldn't care less about Kobe or Curry. That said, it would have to be Curry.

Kobe went up against the best defense of our generation (maybe of any generation) in the 2004 Pistons, while Curry went up against.... the Cavs (average defense at best) and one of the worst defenders of our generation (maybe of any generation) in Kyrie.

The fact that Curry only shot 2 percentage points higher and had the same ppg* is underwhelming.




* Both players averaged 22.6 ppg. Not 22 and 23, as reported earlier in the thread.

.

[Ai2death]

Easily the first ever unanimous mvp plus a 63-9 team. We had those accomplishments chucked in our face and they followed it with an epic choke job. Kobe didn't even get the chance to choke a 3-1 lead

[Cali Syndicate]

Right, but in all cases of serious MCL injuries surgery is strongly recommended if not required over rest. And its what you were harping about all playoffs long was coming in the off-season. Still don't see any surgery :roll: how does it feel to be always wrong?


Guess this just wasn't serious...just the usual thing players play with. Or maybe it was nothing. Those are the only 2 options. The usual or nothing :roll:

When curry initially sprained his ankle back in the 2011 pre season against the Lakers, it wasn't anything too serious. problem was that he continued to play on it with little to rest, leading to more and more sprains. 7 total. His most likely minor sprain developed I to a surgery required fix. In hindsight, some rest following the initial sprain and we wouldn't even talk about curry's glass ankles.

And curry definitely sprained his mcl. Pretty sure the MRI showed some tear which was how they listed it as a grade 1 sprain. While he did get some rest, he sure didn't come back 100%. And even if curry reaggravated it , he was going to hide it. Dude wanted to play because he felt he could help win. Which he did and didn't. His inconsistencies and conditioning issues showed he was affected in one way or another by the injury.

Either way, he has had the summer to heal. And if you followed curry's career at all, he will bounce back and continue to get better.

[Hey Yo]

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate..
KoME deviating from the system, trying to win his 1st FMVP in 4 tries and totally un-coachable...... is the reason why.

[Mr Feeny]

KoME deviating from the system, trying to win his 1st FMVP in 4 tries and totally un-coachable...... is the reason why.Exactly right:applause:

Worst finals performance in nba history. So selfish and horrific that his own coach immediately wrote a book ripping him for :roll:


Nothing will ever compare to how awful 2004 Kobrick was. 38 percent. Yikes:banana:

[Doranku]

As long as you admit it was the worst performance by any superstar in finals history :banana:

LeBron averaging 17,7,8 on 47% while winning 2 games against the team that swept and embarassed kobrick 2 rounds earlier is choking for his standards? Maybe so bc he's a top 3 goat.

For Kobrick standards 47% is one of his all time performances :lebronamazed:

lol are you actually trying to defend LeBron's 2011 finals performance? He averaged like two points in the 4th quarter and got out-scored by a bench player. :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

lol are you actually trying to defend LeBron's 2011 finals performance? He averaged like two points in the 4th quarter and got out-scored by a bench player. :roll:

Lebron 2011 has nothing to do with this thread. Read the title.
We're over here reminiscing about he worst Finals performance of all time - Mr 38% back in 2004 :banana:

[Fudge]

Mista...

Thirty Eight!

We See You!

[Chokefree]

If kobe isnt that good.....why keep bringing him up every single fvcking day? I dont get it? You are still talking about a retired player like he is still in his PRIME just shows you how much kobe mind fvcked yall!

[Real Cavs Fan]

If kobe isnt that good.....why keep bringing him up every single fvcking day? I dont get it? You are still talking about a retired player like he is still in his PRIME just shows you how much kobe mind fvcked yall!

I would like a large oreo Mcflurry and a medium order of fries.

[Fudge]

I would like a large oreo Mcflurry and a medium order of fries.
:roll:

[Quickening]

because he was being selfish, dummy.. a lot of idiots, much like yourself if you had been watching back then, disparaged him for his superstar contributions in previous years and he tried to do too much.



It wasnt a "choke" though.. 2011 Bran is in the dictionary as an example for that word, and its hilarious hearing you guys throw the term around because it will always boomerang right back at you lol

Of course it is a choke, did you see his shooting numbers... 22 ppg on 38 percent fg, and 17 percent from 3... efg% of 39.8 is horrendous. Worst shooting performance of a superstar in a finals ever.

I don't care what the defence is like, someone who is regarded as a top 12 player ever, primarily based on their offence shouldn't be shooting like chit for a whole series in their prime especially when the opposition's defensive schemes as based around another player.

He choked, like Lebron choked in 2011... Lebron ended up becoming too passive, and Kobe just lost the plot on the court.

Kobes was by far the more detrimental to the team, replace him with any decent player who will feed it into Shaq and the lakers win.

[feyki]

Kobe - 22 PPG with %46 TS , 90 Ortg

Lebron - 22 PPG , %43 TS , 84 Ortg

..

2007 Spurs - 99 Drtg , %47 Efg(defensive)

2004 Pistons - 95 Drtg , %44 Efg(D)


Beside of scoring , Kobe had the advantage on defence while Lebron had on all around game ( feeding teammates , more efforts on boards etc . )

.

[tpols]

Kobe - 22 PPG with %46 TS , 90 Ortg

Lebron - 22 PPG , %43 TS , 84 Ortg

..

2007 Spurs - 99 Drtg , %47 Efg(defensive)

2004 Pistons - 95 Drtg , %44 Efg(D)


Beside of scoring , Kobe had the advantage on defence while Lebron had on all around game ( feeding teammates , more efforts on boards etc . )

.

bingo.

that's a good comparison.. nobody says Bron choked versus the spurs.. he just got locked up. Layups and the paint in general was denied and he was turned into a jumpshooter where he shot like sh!t.. he didnt mentally fold in 07.. just had no answer but still somewhat went down swinging.

[Bankaii]

Kobe lost to a team without a true superstar while having the MDE trying to carry him.
Curry lost to LeBeast and Kyire but played much worse overall.

Overall both are two of the worst Finals performers of all time for any ATG.

[34-24 Footwork]

People bringing up performances from a retired player that happened 12 years ago...

And comparing it to a player whose coming off his 2nd MVP In a row.


That's how good Kobe was.....

Dude still dominates the basketball conversation in 2016.

Let that sink in.

[plowking]

Kobe - 22 PPG with %46 TS , 90 Ortg

Lebron - 22 PPG , %43 TS , 84 Ortg

..

2007 Spurs - 99 Drtg , %47 Efg(defensive)

2004 Pistons - 95 Drtg , %44 Efg(D)


Beside of scoring , Kobe had the advantage on defence while Lebron had on all around game ( feeding teammates , more efforts on boards etc . )

.

Did you post this thinking you discovered something or simply found a great rebuttal to this thread?

Clearly this is the same situation. Clearly both were heavy favourites going into the series. :oldlol:

Your disdain for Bron is hilarious because you actually spend time on here trying to convince yourself more than others how average he is. :oldlol:

[plowking]

People bringing up performances from a retired player that happened 12 years ago...

And comparing it to a player whose coming off his 2nd MVP In a row.


That's how good Kobe was.....

Dude still dominates the basketball conversation in 2016.

Let that sink in.

For all the right reasons.

[34-24 Footwork]

Did you post this thinking you discovered something or simply found a great rebuttal to this thread?

Clearly this is the same situation. Clearly both were heavy favourites going into the series. :oldlol:

Your disdain for Bron is hilarious because you actually spend time on here trying to convince yourself more than others how average he is. :oldlol:

I've always advocated that 2007 finals was waaaay worse than 2011 for Lebron.

2011 he checked out because he didn't have a jumper and the entire world knew it

2007...he actually tried which resulted in 6 to's per game and a nasty lockdown.

[JT123]

Overall both are two of the worst Finals performers of all time for any ATG.
Bottom line

[NuggetsFan]

LeBron in '11
Curry '16
Kobe '04

In terms of choking/giving up. LeBron just went into his shell and sat back. Maybe the biggest choke of All-Time. I think he and Wade learning to play together kinda factored in but still. Curry was making hilariously bad plays. Had some plays in the finals you saw for the first time. Not even talking about his scoring/shooting because he lives off bad shots but his passing. You could tell he lost alot of confidence in his game and the pressure probably had alot to do with it. Kobe just played like Kobe. He was extra selfish maybe but had the same kind of mentality. Just didn't work at all.

In terms of who was better? I'd take LeBron in '11 first. He was a ***** but still played a smart game with great defense and overall impact. Curry '16 because he wouldn't lose the series for you just didn't play to his standards. Kobe was the worst because he was determined to win the finals himself and fell on his face in a way that you almost didn't think possible. He was worse than the numbers. I still remember game 1. Shaq was dominant and Kobe just wouldn't go away. T-Mac, Pierce, Carter, Allen, Curry, LeBron .. all would have won that championship IMO. Even Iverson would have relaxed abit next to Shaq.

[imdaman99]

As long as you admit it was the worst performance by any superstar in finals history :banana:

LeBron averaging 17,7,8 on 47% while winning 2 games against the team that swept and embarassed kobrick 2 rounds earlier is choking for his standards? Maybe so bc he's a top 3 goat.

For Kobrick standards 47% is one of his all time performances :lebronamazed:
The difference is that LeBron had a 2-1 lead and lost his last 3 games going out quietly.

How many 3 game losing streaks does LeBron have in the finals? Is it 4? :eek:

[SouBeachTalents]

I've always advocated that 2007 finals was waaaay worse than 2011 for Lebron.

2011 he checked out because he didn't have a jumper and the entire world knew it

2007...he actually tried which resulted in 6 to's per game and a nasty lockdown.

Nah, as awful as LeBron played in '07, at least dude went down swinging, which is at least commendable. What makes 2011 so inexcusable is that he literally has to have a below average series, something like 21/7/7 on 47% and the Heat probably win in a sweep. Hell, dude scores 12-15 points in Game 4 instead of 8 and the Heat go up 3-1 and basically wrap up the series

[ShawkFactory]

I've always advocated that 2007 finals was waaaay worse than 2011 for Lebron.

2011 he checked out because he didn't have a jumper and the entire world knew it

2007...he actually tried which resulted in 6 to's per game and a nasty lockdown.
2011 was in the middle of his peak though. Little bit different.

[Jasper]

Kobe Bryant - 2004 Finals

NARRATIVE: Possibly the 3rd most stacked team ever behind the 2016 AND 2017 Golden State Warriors. Only to be closed out in 5 games to the superstar-less Detroit Pistons. Shaq, as always, held his own. His sidekick failed to show up.

22 ppg
3 rpg
4 apg
38% FG
17% 3PT
4 TO



Result: Lost in 5 games, despite being the favorites.



Stephen Curry - 2016 NBA Finals

NARRATIVE: Coming off a back to back MVP season, and a historic regular season for the (as of now) greatest team EVER, little Stephen failed to step up in the Finals for the 2nd consecutive year, only to be outplayed by teammate Draymond Green. Curry missed his last 4 FGA, including a very crucial turnover late in the game. The Warriors end up losing the last three games of the series, and the G7 at home.

23 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
40% FG
40% 3PT
4 TO

Result: Lost in 7 games, despite being the favorites

Kobe up to now.... Curry set all kinds of records for the 2015/16 season.
He is a record break of the worst kind :roll: :roll: :roll:

[eliteballer]

Kobe wasn't healthy in 2004 you ISHiots. he had no lift, explosion, or conditioning because of offseason knee and shoulder surgeries and all of the drama going on.

Was taking IV's throughout the playoffs.

Nothing is as bad as 2011.

[sportjames23]

Kobe Bryant - 2004 Finals

NARRATIVE: Possibly the 3rd most stacked team ever behind the 2016 AND 2017 Golden State Warriors. Only to be closed out in 5 games to the superstar-less Detroit Pistons. Shaq, as always, held his own. His sidekick failed to show up.

22 ppg
3 rpg
4 apg
38% FG
17% 3PT
4 TO



Result: Lost in 5 games, despite being the favorites.



Stephen Curry - 2016 NBA Finals

NARRATIVE: Coming off a back to back MVP season, and a historic regular season for the (as of now) greatest team EVER, little Stephen failed to step up in the Finals for the 2nd consecutive year, only to be outplayed by teammate Draymond Green. Curry missed his last 4 FGA, including a very crucial turnover late in the game. The Warriors end up losing the last three games of the series, and the G7 at home.

23 ppg
5 rpg
4 apg
40% FG
40% 3PT
4 TO

Result: Lost in 7 games, despite being the favorites


http://i.imgur.com/xftyHLD.gif

[AintNoSunshine]

In 2015 Curry put on one of the most clutch performances in Finals history

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg

The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that the healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production

Since you love this pic so much, did you save it as your wallpaper and screen saver?:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

The difference is that LeBron had a 2-1 lead and lost his last 3 games going out quietly.

How many 3 game losing streaks does LeBron have in the finals? Is it 4? :eek:Kobe also lost 3 straight games and was only able to win his team half the games that Lebron was able to win for the heat in his series :roll:

LeBron 47%
Kobrick 38%

Agree that Lebron's worst series ever is better than an average Kobe series :lol

[Quickening]

bingo.

that's a good comparison.. nobody says Bron choked versus the spurs.. he just got locked up. Layups and the paint in general was denied and he was turned into a jumpshooter where he shot like sh!t.. he didnt mentally fold in 07.. just had no answer but still somewhat went down swinging.

Kobe choked in 2004, it was nothing to do with defensive schemes etc... He was playing alongside the MDE player who every opposition teams focused on.

There is no excuses for shooting that poorly, other than folding under the pressure of trying to outperform Shaq.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe choked in 2004, it was nothing to do with defensive schemes etc... He was playing alongside the MDE player who every opposition teams focused on.

There is no excuses for shooting that poorly, other than folding under the pressure of trying to outperform Shaq.

38% :wtf:

[Stanley Kobrick]

Wrong. When the injury is severe enough that therapy and rest won't work, surgery is done. Curry's MCL injury was not severe. You yourself said all playoffs long it was so serious that he will get surgery, guess you were wrong. :roll:
did stephen curry ever end up getting the surgery? seems 5 years later he still suffers from this injury in each Finals

[Axe]

The one who had a 3-1 lead in the finals takes the cake

[Lakers Legend#32]

Kobe didn't choke.
Gary Payton pouted
Karl Malone menstrated.

[Axe]

Will we ever get to see another instance of curry choking like this again?

His old pal klay doesn't think so.

[dankok8]

Curry came off of an injury... Still underperformed though so no excuses but not sure if I'd use the word choke.

[SouBeachTalents]

Curry came off of an injury... Still underperformed though so no excuses but not sure if I'd use the word choke.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBFF4PnCaXE&ab_channel=SiddharthBharanidharan

[WhiteKyrie]

With some of their absolute putrid finals performances, even in the face of having the ability and tools around them to really should have won:

1) 2011 LeBron
2) 2016 Curry
3) 2004 Kobe
4) 2017 LeBron
5) 2007 LeBron
6) 2015 LeBron
7) 2014 LeBron
8) 2008 Kobe

[FireDavidKahn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBFF4PnCaXE&ab_channel=SiddharthBharanidharan

Curry's only iconic play off moment

[AirTupac]

2020 your mom on my cack

[Stanley Kobrick]

Curry's only iconic play off moment
:(

[Fudge]

Haha wow boys came back on here finally and see a legendary thread of mine bumped

[Axe]

Haha wow boys came back on here finally and see a legendary thread of mine bumped
:cheers:

What a weird coincidence tho