Shaq's Final numbers sh** all over Lebron.

[Big164]

Shaq: 28.8p .590t% 13.1r 3.4a 2.0b .5s 3.3tov
6 finals: 4 rings

Lebron: 27.0p .535t% 9.9r 7.2a .8b 1.9s 3.9tov
7 Finals 3 rings

More Points on better efficiency. And these averages include Shaq's poor Miami series, Peak4Peak it wouldnt even be close!

[aj1987]

Shaq: 28.8p .590t% 13.1r 3.4a 2.0b .5s 3.3tov

Lebron: 27.0p .535t% 9.9r 7.2a .8b 1.9s 3.9tov

More Points on better efficiency. And these averages include Shaq's poor Miami series, Peak4Peak it wouldnt even be close!
No shit. Shaq is a top 2 GOAT Finals player.

1. MJ
2. Shaq



















3. Who gives a shit

[Im Still Ballin]

a 4 assist gap is huge

These stats are a lot closer than you think

It's a given Shaq will be more efficient as a center

Compare both players best 3 finals and it's even stevens

Shaq'll have the points advantage, but LeBron closes the gap of total points accounted for by a much superior assist total

Then you factor in the opponent quality, and yeah..

[tmacattack33]

Shaq: 28.8p .590t% 13.1r 3.4a 2.0b .5s 3.3tov
6 finals: 4 rings

Lebron: 27.0p .535t% 9.9r 7.2a .8b 1.9s 3.9tov
7 Finals 3 rings

More Points on better efficiency. And these averages include Shaq's poor Miami series, Peak4Peak it wouldnt even be close!

And they also include Lebron's Cleveland series where he was 22 and completely outmatched, going against a great team with Daniel Gibson as his second option.

And anyway, no, Shaq's numbers there do not completely dominate Lebron's numbers. The difference in assists and playmaking is gigantic. Lebron literally doubles Shaq's assists and then some.

[Dragonyeuw]

And anyway, no, Shaq's numbers there do not completely dominate Lebron's numbers. The difference in assists and playmaking is gigantic. Lebron literally doubles Shaq's assists and then some.

Given their roles, isn't that a given? As it is, the triangle deflates individual assist numbers. It's not an offense where one player stands at the top of the key and dribbles the air out of the ball waiting for a play to develop.

Furthermore to your point about the 2007 finals, Lebron's production that series on the surface, 22/7/7 doesn't impact his overall numbers nearly as much as Shaq's 2006 finals. He shot like crap, but the surface numbers don't do nearly as much damage as Shaq putting up 13.7ppg. His finals numbers are well over 30ppg without that outlier series.

[Im Still Ballin]

And they also include Lebron's Cleveland series where he was 22 and completely outmatched, going against a great team with Daniel Gibson as his second option.

And anyway, no, Shaq's numbers there do not completely dominate Lebron's numbers. The difference in assists and playmaking is gigantic. Lebron literally doubles Shaq's assists and then some.
People have this dumbass notion of lowballing the value of an assist

We KNOW that 1 assist is worth much more than 1 point

That small points scored total and efficiency is EASILY made up for by superior assist totals, EVEN when you account for slightly more turnovers

LeBron has always been the King of points accounted for

Not to mention we haven't even talked about strength of opposition, which we know is a no contest

[MP.Trey]

Shaq looks slightly better to me. I don't see anyone shitting on anyone stat-wise.

Shaq scores slightly more on a better percentage, rebounds and blocks shots more (obviously, he's arguably the most dominant big man ever). LeBron averages more assists and steals (obviously, he's one of the most dominant perimeter players ever) Turnovers are usually going to go the way of the guy handling the ball the majority of the time as well. Context is a beautiful thing.

[Im Still Ballin]

Given their roles, isn't that a given? As it is, the triangle deflates individual assist numbers. It's not an offense where one player stands at the top of the key and dribbles the air out of the ball waiting for a play to develop.

Furthermore to your point about the 2007 finals, Lebron's production that series on the surface, 22/7/7 doesn't impact his overall numbers nearly as much as Shaq's 2006 finals. He shot like crap, but the surface numbers don't do nearly as much damage as Shaq putting up 13.7ppg. His finals numbers are well over 30ppg without that outlier series.
Shaq 2006 is more comparable to LeBron 2011

[Im Still Ballin]

This is LeBron's last 5 finals average

29.52/10.7/7.22/1.96/0.9 on 48%

I imagine Shaq's best 5 finals would look like 33/13 or something

But when you factor in strength of opposition and give an unbiased analysis on the stats (Understanding the true value of an assist in regards to points accounted by)

There's barely any between them

[Dragonyeuw]

Shaq 2006 is more comparable to LeBron 2011

No he isn't, because his play didn't directly contribute to his team losing. Shaq only took 9 shots per game that series( and hit 60%), so its not like he was taking a high volume of shots and getting shut down.

[StrongLurk]

Numbers like these are why I always put Shaq>Duncan and Kobe.

Shaq has just as good longevity but more playoff dominance and it top 3 Finals Goat.

[Mr Feeny]

These numbers are why Shaq is way 》》》》》 kobe :applause:

[Dragonyeuw]

But when you factor in strength of opposition and give an unbiased analysis on the stats (Understanding the true value of an assist in regards to points accounted by)

There's barely any between them

Positional opposition:

Shaq: Hakeem( defending champ and FMVP), Smits( former all-star), Mutombo( DPOY that year), McCollough, Ben Wallace( 2 DPOY before and 2 afterwards), Diop/Dampier

Lebron: Bowen ,Marion( not the Suns version), Durant( legit star but pre-prime), Kawhi( still up and coming), Iguodola/Harnes

Not much difference.

[Im Still Ballin]

No he isn't, because his play didn't directly contribute to his team losing. Shaq only took 9 shots per game that series( and hit 60%), so its not like he was taking a high volume of shots and getting shut down.
Nope

Shaq and LeBron both shot low volumes, evident by their field goals.. They didn't miss a lot of shots like a 2004 Kobe, they simply didn't take enough shots. Shaq shot like 60% and LeBron shot 48%

I'm not sure why you're including the result of the series as neither of them are compatible in this light so it's stupid that you even made such comparison in the first place

What I said is right on a statistical level which is really all you can compare

[Im Still Ballin]

Positional opposition:

Shaq: Hakeem( defending champ and FMVP), Smits( former all-star), Mutombo( DPOY that year), McCollough, Ben Wallace( 2 DPOY before and 2 afterwards), Diop/Dampier

Lebron: Bowen ,Marion( not the Suns version), Durant( legit star but pre-prime), Kawhi( still up and coming), Iguodola/Harnes

Not much difference.
Basketball is a team sport you degenerate poop stain

LAST 5 FINALS (Average opposition win total of 61)

28.6/10.2/7.4/1.6/0.4 on 47%

25.3/10.9/7.0/2.3/0.9 on 45%

28.2/7.8/4.0/2.0/0.4 on 57%

35.8/13.3/8.8/1.3/0.5 on 40%

29.7/11.3/8.9/2.6/2.3 on 49%

29.52/10.7/7.22/1.96/0.9 on 48%



LAST 3 FINALS (Average opposition win total of 67)

28.2/7.8/4.0/2.0/0.4 on 57%

35.8/13.3/8.8/1.3/0.5 on 40%

29.7/11.3/8.9/2.6/2.3 on 49%

31.2/10.8/7.2/1.96/1.06 on 49%

[feyki]

And they also include Lebron's Cleveland series where he was 22 and completely outmatched, going against a great team with Daniel Gibson as his second option.

And anyway, no, Shaq's numbers there do not completely dominate Lebron's numbers. The difference in assists and playmaking is gigantic. Lebron literally doubles Shaq's assists and then some.

Shaq was 22 too , when he battling against prime Hakeem . I don't say Shaq was better than him . But Shaq was push him rather than same age Lebron . Duncan was totally on routine mode , like playing in trainings matches .

I don't speak on career wise . But Shaq was definitely better on 22 ages .

Lebron's first solid plays , like an all time greats , was in his 24 (2009) .

And then multiple choking adventures . That's the career of Lebron . But he try to repair that career in last two finals . And he was succesful for now .

[HylianNightmare]

They're actually pretty close....

[Im Still Ballin]

Shaq was 22 too , when he battling against prime Hakeem . I don't say Shaq was better than him . But Shaq was push him rather than same age Lebron . Duncan was totally on routine mode , like playing in trainings matches .

I don't speak on career wise . But Shaq was definitely better on 22 ages .

Lebron's first solid plays , like an all time greats , was in his 24 (2009) .

And then multiple choking adventures . That's the career of Lebron . But he try to repair that career in last two finals . And he was succesful for now .
Wrong

2006 he had an all time great reg season and playoffs that'd sit well with any top season

[Dragonyeuw]

Nope

-Shaq and LeBron both shot low volumes, evident by their field goals..

-I'm not sure why you're including the result of the series as neither of them are compatible in this light so it's stupid that you even made such comparison in the first place

What I said is right on a statistical level which is really all you can compare

-Shaq took 9 shots a game, Lebron took 22.5. Please don't make retarded comments that can't be shut down by a 5 second google search.

-The result of the series is relevant, because Shaq's play didn't contribute to his team losing. Lebron's did, and let's not discount that we're comparing prime Lebron and past-prime Shaq in 2011 and 2006 repsectively....

[Im Still Ballin]

-Shaq took 9 shots a game, Lebron took 22.5. Please don't make retarded comments that can't be shut down by a 5 second google search.

-The result of the series is relevant, because Shaq's play didn't contribute to his team losing. Lebron's did, and let's not discount that we're comparing prime Lebron and past-prime Shaq in 2011 and 2006 repsectively....
Lol learn to read

2011 not 2007

He shots 48% in 2011

[Dragonyeuw]

Basketball is a team sport you degenerate poop stain

LAST 5 FINALS (Average opposition win total of 61)

28.6/10.2/7.4/1.6/0.4 on 47%

25.3/10.9/7.0/2.3/0.9 on 45%

28.2/7.8/4.0/2.0/0.4 on 57%

35.8/13.3/8.8/1.3/0.5 on 40%

29.7/11.3/8.9/2.6/2.3 on 49%

29.52/10.7/7.22/1.96/0.9 on 48%



LAST 3 FINALS (Average opposition win total of 67)

28.2/7.8/4.0/2.0/0.4 on 57%

35.8/13.3/8.8/1.3/0.5 on 40%

29.7/11.3/8.9/2.6/2.3 on 49%

31.2/10.8/7.2/1.96/1.06 on 49%

It's also a game of matchups, and positionally Shaq's competition wasn't really any worse. You also ignore that Shaq's main competition came before the finals. Not his fault the east was producing shit finals teams in his prime.

Sorry.

[Im Still Ballin]

You got to read up on some NBA pal

I know these things off by heart

Seasoned NBA expert

[ScalsFan21]

ISB just dominating this thread. The ISH trend of valuing dimes so low has always been one of the most confounding things. An assist is always at LEAST twice as important as a point, and in LeBron's case often is three times as good. Say what you want about spacing and shooters helping to facilitate that relative to past superstars, but that's exactly what makes the King so easy to build around with players who won't cost you a fortune. Guy just cultivates chip level play and is supremely underrated off-ball these days. LeBeast.

Shaq's peak is damn near unmatched, but LeBron's got just as impressive a finals resume against a murderer's row of opponents. Every team they faced other than Dallas was beyond incredible. I still have nightmares of the plays when Shaq would draw Todd McCullough on D, often in single coverage in 2002.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's also a game of matchups, and positionally Shaq's competition wasn't really any worse. You also ignore that Shaq's main competition came before the finals. Not his fault the east was producing shit finals teams in his prime.

Sorry.
Thought we was talking about the finals?

ahahahahahha!

Lmao I WIN!!! WOOOOOOOOOO!!!

[ScalsFan21]

Dragon - not saying it's Shaq's fault but if we are strictly comparing finals resumes, opponent quality needs to matter, not JUST the statistics.

[Im Still Ballin]

IBB just dominating this thread. The ISH trend of valuing dimes so low has always been one of the most confounding things. An assist is always at LEAST twice as important as a point, and in LeBron's case often is three times as good. Say what you want about spacing and shooters helping to facilitate that relative to past superstars, but that's exactly what makes the King so easy to build around with players who won't cost you a fortune. Guy just cultivates chip level play and is supremely underrated off-ball these days. LeBeast.

Shaq's peak is damn near unmatched, but LeBron's got just as impressive a finals resume against a murderer's row of opponents. Every team they faced other than Dallas was beyond incredible. I still have nightmares of the plays when Shaq would draw Todd McCullough on D, often in single coverage in 2002.
ALL TIME GREAT TODD MCCULLOUGH SIGNATURE DEFENSE.

[Dragonyeuw]

Lol learn to read

2011 not 2007

He shots 48% in 2011

Oh yeah. he still sucked and his poor play influenced the outcome of the series. So no, 2006 Shaq and 2011 Lebron aren't comparable.

[Dragonyeuw]

Thought we was talking about the finals?

ahahahahahha!

Lmao I WIN!!! WOOOOOOOOOO!!!

We are, and between the 2000 and 2002 the finals pretty much took place in the WCF.

Shaq's prime finals numbers still >Lebron's.

And Shaq won in 2006. Lebron lost in 2011 and stunk it up doingn so. Not comparable.

[Im Still Ballin]

Oh yeah. he still sucked and his poor play influenced the outcome of the series. So no, 2006 Shaq and 2011 Lebron aren't comparable.
Clearly they're not, but you were trying to compare LeBron and Shaq in that matter in the first place so you're a retard... And the 2006-2011 comparison WOULD be the closest comparison in that scenario, despite the clear fact that as a whole, there is no comparison in that scenario

Just a bad comparison from you overall

[Im Still Ballin]

Dragon - not saying it's Shaq's fault but if we are strictly comparing finals resumes, opponent quality needs to matter, not JUST the statistics.
We win bro! WE WIN AGAIN!!!

[Dragonyeuw]

Dragon - not saying it's Shaq's fault but if we are strictly comparing finals resumes, opponent quality needs to matter, not JUST the statistics.

And as I said, positionally Shaq didn't face 'inferior' finals opponents. Hakeem? Mutombo? Prime Ben Wallace? The narrative is focusing on McCollough while ignoring the prior names.

[Im Still Ballin]

Team sport

TEAM SPORT

[Dragonyeuw]

Clearly they're not, but you were trying to compare LeBron and Shaq in that matter in the first place so you're a retard... And the 2006-2011 comparison WOULD be the closest comparison in that scenario, despite the clear fact that as a whole, there is no comparison in that scenario

Just a bad comparison from you overall


Shaq 2006 is more comparable to LeBron 2011

And yet you felt the need to bring up the idea to start with, you inbred ****. 2006 Shaq and 2011 Lebron have no business being in the same sentence for any reason, but you invited the comparison which takes into account individual performance and team result. Shaq didn't play bad, nor did he lose. Lebron played like shit, and he lost( and was the main reason his team lost). They weren't even at the same point in their careers. Those are the facts.

[Im Still Ballin]

No you brought it up first when you tried to compare 2006 Shaq to 2007 LeBron

To then which I told you, it's a stupid comparison as a whole... BUT the closest comparison for 2006 Shaq would be 2011 LeBron, because they both played bad (regardless of the result), yet they both shot solid percentages, they simply didn't take enough shots

[ScalsFan21]

And as I said, positionally Shaq didn't face 'inferior' finals opponents. Hakeem? Mutombo? Prime Ben Wallace? The narrative is focusing on McCollough while ignoring the prior names.

I concede that point in terms of head-to-head positional opponents. In terms of team quality, LeBron has ALWAYS had his work cut out for him in the Finals specifically. He was viewed as somewhere from underdog to heavy underdog EACH time he was in the finals with literally ONE exception out of 7, while Shaq was typically the favorite. I feel like it's more about giving LeBron credit for what he's done against stacked teams than detracting from Shaq per se, because he did deal with consistent insane defensive attention.

Maybe the MacCullough example was a bad one, but it sticks out in my mind like it was yesterday. My Net bias at play.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Shaq's teams played a bunch of tomato cans in the Finals. Best team they beat in the Finals was the Mavs, and he was the 2nd option by that point.

[Dragonyeuw]

No you brought it up first when you tried to compare 2006 Shaq to 2007 LeBron

To then which I told you, it's a stupid comparison as a whole... BUT the closest comparison for 2006 Shaq would be 2011 LeBron, because they both played bad (regardless of the result), yet they both shot solid percentages, they simply didn't take enough shots

That was merely to discuss how their numbers in those seasons impacted their overall stats. Shaq scoring 13ppg when he was otherwise a 30ppg finals competitor drops his stats worse than Lebron scoring 22ppg which is still like 75-80% of his scoring production in other series.

Anyways, I forgot what the argument is about at this point and I'm bored with the discussion. Next...

[riseagainst]

Lebron's statline is GOAT tier. And that INCLUDES his 07 finals, scary.

[zeerghit]

can someone post kobe nmbrs?

[OnFire]

Given their roles, isn't that a given? As it is, the triangle deflates individual assist numbers. It's not an offense where one player stands at the top of the key and dribbles the air out of the ball waiting for a play to develop.

Furthermore to your point about the 2007 finals, Lebron's production that series on the surface, 22/7/7 doesn't impact his overall numbers nearly as much as Shaq's 2006 finals. He shot like crap, but the surface numbers don't do nearly as much damage as Shaq putting up 13.7ppg. His finals numbers are well over 30ppg without that outlier series.

It might be a given the same way its a given a center will have higher fg% and more rebounds and blocks?

[Dragonyeuw]

It might be a given the same way its a given a center will have higher fg% and more rebounds and blocks?

Exactly, but no-one is making a point to belabor Shaq's rebounding and blocks advantages, because as you say it's a given. The point being made earlier by someone was to inflate the value of Lebron's assists versus Shaq's not taking into account the position they play and/or their role in the offense, or the offense itself. Heck, look at all the wide open looks Shaq generated because he required double and triple-teaming in the post. Not all these little nuances show in the statline, but greatly impact the ebb and flow of the game.

[warriorfan]

Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals


1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3

[warriorfan]

Assists are great and all but it doesn't help you in the 4th quarter of the Finals when you are playing hot potato and relying on bail out shots from your team (See LeBron)

[Im Still Ballin]

LeBron 2016 Finals:
- 30 points
- 9 assists
- 48-66 possible points accounted for
- Cleveland 100.4 PPG
- LeBron accounted for 48-66% of his team's score

Shaq 2000 Finals:
- 38 points
- 2 assists
- 42-46 possible points accounted for
- Lakers 104.8 PPG
- Shaq accounted for 40-44% of his team's score

[warriorfan]

*LeBron 2016 Finals:
- 30 points
- 9 assists
- 48-66 possible points accounted for
- Cleveland 100.4 PPG
- LeBron accounted for 48-66% of his team's score


These statistics were accumulated while Golden State's 3 best defensive players were out of commission due to suspension under dubious circumstances or injury which artificially inflated LeBron's numbers

[ZMonkey11]

Given their roles, isn't that a given? As it is, the triangle deflates individual assist numbers. It's not an offense where one player stands at the top of the key and dribbles the air out of the ball waiting for a play to develop.


For guards. What the **** man. If you are going to start talking about how the triangle limits holding the ball up top at the key (which Shaq would never do), how bout we talk about how the big men are critical in setting up plays in the triangle. AKA, get the ball low and see how your men play off of it. Shaq could have averaged a lot more assists than he did, but he goes up on 3on1s. (in part because he can).

So don't make this into a "limited by the system" debate, because you will come up flat like the over dribbling you are talking about. Shaq had the opportunity (because he is constantly doubled) to throw it to cutter 1 that goes baseline, the player coming towards the corner 3, the opposite corner, or wherever the double comes. The triangle is meant for movement of players for the big man in the paint when Phil used it with the Lakers.

[Dragonyeuw]

For guards. What the **** man. If you are going to start talking about how the triangle limits holding the ball up top at the key (which Shaq would never do), how bout we talk about how the big men are critical in setting up plays in the triangle. AKA, get the ball low and see how your men play off of it. Shaq could have averaged a lot more assists than he did, but he goes up on 3on1s. (in part because he can).

So don't make this into a "limited by the system" debate, because you will come up flat like the over dribbling you are talking about. Shaq had the opportunity (because he is constantly doubled) to throw it to cutter 1 that goes baseline, the player coming towards the corner 3, the opposite corner, or wherever the double comes. The triangle is meant for movement of players for the big man in the paint when Phil used it with the Lakers.

Exactly, so you killed your point right then and there( and partly admit to doing so). Shaq with a massive advantage inside and getting your frontline in trouble was in most cases the best option. How many assists do you think he 'should' have gotten from that position, in an offense that relied on him scoring 27-30ppg and with major advantages inside? What are you arguing, that Shaq should have gotten 6 or 7 assists? More?

[Hey Yo]

And yet you felt the need to bring up the idea to start with, you inbred ****. 2006 Shaq and 2011 Lebron have no business being in the same sentence for any reason, but you invited the comparison which takes into account individual performance and team result. Shaq didn't play bad, nor did he lose. Lebron played like shit, and he lost( and was the main reason his team lost). They weren't even at the same point in their careers. Those are the facts.
:oldlol:

Led the team in scoring for 2 games and added a trip-dub in another....yet he was the direct reason Heat lost......:oldlol:

[Bigsmoke]

LeBron > Kobe

never said he was better than Shaq. :confusedshrug:

[Dragonyeuw]

:oldlol:

Led the team in scoring for 2 games and added a trip-dub in another....yet he was the direct reason Heat lost......:oldlol:

Led the team in scoring by a whopping 2 points in game 1s and 2, and had 8, 7, and 9 on 27% shooting but we'll focus on the empty triple-double in a losing effort. Clearly that's as pivotal as Wade outscoring him 36-20 in game 2, 29-17 in game 3, 32-8 in game 4, and 23-17 in game 5.

You accuse MJ of empty stats vs 86 Celtics, but can't apply that logic evenly it appears.

[Hey Yo]

Led the team in scoring by a whopping 2 points in game 1s and 2, and had 8, 7, and 9 on 27% shooting but we'll focus on the empty triple-double in a losing effort. You accuse MJ of empty stats vs 86 Celtics, but can't apply that logic evenly it appears.
I never claimed MJ was the direct reason Chicago lost, though.

Maybe if Miami's 2 other starters, Anthony and Bibby, contributed more than their combined avg's of 38MP per game, 5ppg, 5TRB and 1AST....maybe Miami would have won.

[aj1987]

I never claimed MJ was the direct reason Chicago lost, though.

Maybe if Miami's 2 other starters, Anthony and Bibby, contributed more than their combined avg's of 38MP per game, 5ppg, 5TRB and 1AST....maybe Miami would have won.
Stop it. LeBron was garbage in the '11 Finals. Dude averaged like 2 points in the 4th Q's on sub 33% shooting. Get over it. Shaq's '06 Finals >> LeBron's '11 Finals.

[Dragonyeuw]

I never claimed MJ was the direct reason Chicago lost, though.

Maybe if Miami's 2 other starters, Anthony and Bibby, contributed more than their combined avg's of 38MP per game, 5ppg, 5TRB and 1AST....maybe Miami would have won.

Because he wasn't. His production increased, dramatically, and the series would have been even less competitive if not for his production. One guy left the series with Larry Bird calling him god. The other ends the series with the entire basketball world asking :wtf: just happened?

Joel Anthony averaged 5-6ppg in the regular season, so the Heat's success or failure clearly had little to do with his individual output. Bibby averaged 7.3 in the regular season...neither one of these players outputs mattered as much as prime Lebron James having a near 10ppg drop from regular season production. Acting like those two players who combined are worth like 10-11 points to the Heat offense is hilarious, and especially in a finals series usually defined by your superstars carrying the load you expect from them.

[Hey Yo]

Stop it. LeBron was garbage in the '11 Finals. Dude averaged like 2 points in the 4th Q's on sub 33% shooting. Get over it. Shaq's '06 Finals >> LeBron's '11 Finals.
That's more than Anthony avg for the entire series.

[aj1987]

That's more than Anthony avg for the entire series.
Why do you keep bringing up Joel? Dude was a scrub. Averaged 2 PPG in the RS as well. His PPG didn't drop by 10 from the RS to the Finals.

RS - 6.2 PPG on 47%
1st Round - 5.6 on 39%
ECSF - 9 on 47%
ECF - 8.2 on 48%
Finals - 3 on 33%

'11 was a massive LeBron choke job. Deal with it and move on.

[Dragonyeuw]

That's more than Anthony avg for the entire series.

You're that desperate to exonerate Bron's 2011 finals, that you're going to drag in a player who only scores like 5ppg anyway? Are you really arguing a player whose productivity is pretty much inconsequential deserves blame for basically producing at the same non-existent level in the finals? Were you expecting him to turn into a double-double machine?

[Hey Yo]

Because he wasn't. His production increased, dramatically, and the series would have been even less competitive if not for his production. One guy left the series with Larry Bird calling him god. The other ends the series with the entire basketball world asking :wtf: just happened?

Joel Anthony averaged 2ppg in the regular season, so the Heat's success or failure clearly had little to do with his individual output. Bibby averaged 7.3 in the regular season...neither one of these players outputs mattered as much as prime Lebron James having a near 10ppg drop from regular season production. Acting like those two players who combined are worth 9 points to the Heat offense is hilarious.
Just like if James didn't lead 2 games in scoring and another with a trip-dub....the games would have been less competitive.

For you to act like Anthony's and Bibby's pathetic production had nothing to do with Miami losing is hilarious.

[Hey Yo]

You're that desperate to exonerate Bron's 2011 finals, that you're going to drag in a player who only scores like 5ppg anyway? Are you really arguing a player whose productivity is pretty much inconsequential deserves blame for basically producing at the same non-existent level in the finals? Were you expecting him to turn into a double-double machine?
No I'm not....I know his ppg were down and played below avg.

But to say that he was thee direct reason why Miami lost is asinine. Especially when he still had the most total w/s for that entire postseason.

[aj1987]

Just like if James didn't lead 2 games in scoring and another with a trip-dub....the games would have been less competitive.
Miami would've won G1 even without LeBron leading the team in scoring. Lost G5. The one in which LeBron had a triple double. LeBron scored like 2 points in the 4th and those came when the Mavs were up by ~8 with less than 30 seconds to go. Miami lost the other game in which he lead the team in scoring as well. IIRC, Miami was down ~8 with 6 minutes to go and LeBron turned into Casper.


For you to act like Anthony's and Bibby's pathetic production had nothing to do with Miami losing is hilarious.
It didn't. If LeBron was just himself, Miami would've swept the Mavs.

[Dragonyeuw]

Just like if James didn't lead 2 games in scoring and another with a trip-dub....the games would have been less competitive.

For you to act like Anthony's and Bibby's pathetic production had nothing to do with Miami losing is hilarious.

Nice spin, but futile. James led two games by 2 points each, with Wade scoring 22 to his 24 in one game, and Bosh scoring 19( and Wade scoring 17) in the other, those two games his second and third options provided him solid support. Meanwhile, 8 points. Lebron James. NBA finals game. And they lost by 3 points in that game.

You're looking desperate bringing up Anthony and Bibby, especially when Mario Chalmers doubling his production from 6 to 12 points RS to finals would at the least make up for any 'loss' of production from Bibby who was only good for 7ppg anyway.

[Dragonyeuw]

But to say that he was thee direct reason why Miami lost is asinine. Especially when he still had the most total w/s for that entire postseason.

His drop-off in play was the most crucial. Wade played well enough in general. Bosh was inefficient, but managed to produce his RS volume. The most glaring difference was Bron dropping from 26 to 17, not Joel fcuking Anthony dropping from 6 to 2. Are you kidding me? :facepalm

Stating his W/S for the post-season goes against your point, that merely re-enforces how poorly he played in the finals compared to the first 3 rounds. Better off not posting that as if it's an argument in your favor.

[aj1987]

His drop-off in play was the most crucial. Wade played well enough in general. Bosh was inefficient, but managed to produce his RS volume. The most glaring difference was Bron dropping from 26 to 17, not Joel fcuking Anthony dropping from 6 to 2. Are you kidding me? :facepalm

Stating his W/S for the post-season goes against your point, that merely re-enforces how poorly he played in the finals compared to the first 3 rounds. Better off not posting that as if it's an argument in your favor.
RS - 6.2 PPG on 47%
1st Round - 5.6 on 39%
ECSF - 9 on 47%
ECF - 8.2 on 48%
Finals - 3 on 33%

Look at those 4th Q numbers and drop off. His numbers would be even lower for the Finals, if we get rid of the garbage time points.

[Dragonyeuw]

RS - 6.2 PPG on 47%
1st Round - 5.6 on 39%
ECSF - 9 on 47%
ECF - 8.2 on 48%
Finals - 3 on 33%

Look at those 4th Q numbers and drop off. His numbers would be even lower for the Finals, if we get rid of the garbage time points.

Freaking hell. I mean, Bron didn't even have to play par with his post-season, if he played at a level between what he did against Chicago and Dallas, Heat likely win. It's just a HUGE disparity in level of play.

[Hey Yo]

His drop-off in play was the most crucial. Wade played well enough in general. Bosh was inefficient, but managed to produce his RS volume. The most glaring difference was Bron dropping from 26 to 17, not Joel fcuking Anthony dropping from 6 to 2. Are you kidding me? :facepalm:
Not arguing it wasn't crucial, but to put sole blame is dumb.

When does 17.8pts = 17ppg avg? You round down when you're .2 away???



Stating his W/S for the post-season goes against your point, that merely re-enforces how poorly he played in the finals compared to the first 3 rounds. Better off not posting that as if it's an argument in your favor.
It's a great argument cause it shows that people who think he played so bad or the direct reason they lost in the Finals, then he surely should have been overtaken by someone, on either team, in total w/s....correct?

[Dragonyeuw]

Not arguing it wasn't crucial, but to put sole blame is dumb.

When does 17.8pts = 17ppg avg? You round down when you're .2 away???



It's a great argument cause it shows that people who think he played so bad or the direct reason they lost in the Finals, then he surely should have been overtaken by someone, on either team, in total w/s....correct?

I didn't blame it solely, I said mainly and its right there in the first thing you quoted from me a few pages back. Or most crucially, which again doesn't equate to solely. Sure Bosh could have played better, and I suppose Joel Anthony could have added another 3 points in the box score......sure.

Nope. It just shows how great he was in the previous rounds, great enough for his overall w/s to withstand how shitty he was in the finals, so inconsequential that a triple double with a 43%( rounded for your convenience) TS% in a losing effort is all you can cling to. Oh, and leading the team in scoring in 2 games( by 2 points). That alone atones for the 8 point effort, I guess.

My apologies for the 17ppg, should have been 18. That would have made all the difference.

[Big164]

Here are Shaq's 3 Peat Averages... just the averages not his best..

35.9 ppg .590t% 15.2 reb 2.93 blks 3.5a .66 stl

[dazzer87]

Here are Shaq's 3 Peat Averages... just the averages not his best..

35.9 ppg .590t% 15.2 reb 2.93 blks 3.5a .66 stl
Replace Kobe with iverson, McGrady, or Vince Carter. Lakers 3peats.

[G-train]

newsflash, shaq was dominant beast

[Big164]

a 4 assist gap is huge

These stats are a lot closer than you think

It's a given Shaq will be more efficient as a center

Compare both players best 3 finals and it's even stevens

Shaq'll have the points advantage, but LeBron closes the gap of total points accounted for by a much superior assist total


No...Shaq doesnt necessarily Have to be more efficient as a Center he just IS.... MJ matched Shaq's efficiency in the early 90s, and Magic who is a point guard is actually superior to the Diesel. True Shooting is cool like that cuz it can be compared across positions. Lebron is just subpar and misses too many buckets.

He needs those extra assists to Kyrie to make up for all the damn shots hes missing.

[rodman91]

Prime Shaq > Prime Lebron no doubt. Not just numbers but also how he effected the opponent play. He was consistantly triple teamed or it was easily 40 point game with high efficiency.

It created even players like Medvedenko, Samaki Walker etc. become servicable.

In Miami, he made Damon Jones a legit starter. lol.

[SouBeachTalents]

Guys, it's pointless debating Hey Yo about the 2011 Finals. Dude legitimately brings up Anthony/Bibby and refuses to acknowledge LeBron was the biggest reason they lost when he had an NBA record drop off from regular season to Finals pgg and was a ghost in the 4th quarter. Seriously, dude scored 8 points in the series turning Game 4, a game they lost by 3 fuccing points and would have given them a 3-1 stranglehold on the series. Nah, instead of blaming a 4x MVP for scoring single digits in a Finals game in the prime of his career, we'll shift the blame to Joel Anthony :oldlol:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Numbers like these are why I always put Shaq>Duncan and Kobe.

Shaq has just as good longevity but more playoff dominance and it top 3 Finals Goat.

Only if you're a retard that ignores context. In Shaq's peak during those 3peat Lakers fruns, Duncan/Kobe were shitting all over Shaq's numbers in the WCF then Shaq would statpad against ATW finals teams in the finals that had no chance of winning it all. Everyone knows the real finals were the WCF back in those days. Post up Duncan's H2H stats vs. Shaq, his '99, '02, '03, '04, etc numbers vs. Shaq if you really wanna look at something funny and feel like a jackass.

:coleman:

[SecondTake]

Shaq's rookie numbers would be a top 3 season for LBJ

[Mr Feeny]

Not arguing it wasn't crucial, but to put sole blame is dumb.

When does 17.8pts = 17ppg avg? You round down when you're .2 away???



It's a great argument cause it shows that people who think he played so bad or the direct reason they lost in the Finals, then he surely should have been overtaken by someone, on either team, in total w/s....correct?

You said it yourself. He s dumbass who knows nothing about basketball. Why waste your time? I guess it's fun embarassing him if that's what you want:lol

[Dragonyeuw]

You said it yourself. He s dumbass who knows nothing about basketball. Why waste your time? I guess it's fun embarassing him if that's what you want:lol

Oh look, nothing more to say over on the other thread( last post was 3:24) so you pop onto this one 2 minutes later to let off some steam by piggybacking on a discussion that ended 4 days ago :lol You protest on Lebron's behalf a great deal for a 'Jordan boy'....

For someone claiming that they're wasting their time arguing with me , you are hilariously too stupid to stop yourself from wasting more time, and too stupid to see the irony of asking the other guy 'why waste your time?' :roll: Rattled.... now respond and waste more time :lol :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Oh look, nothing more to say over on the other thread( last post was 3:24) so you pop onto this one 2 minutes later to let off some steam by piggybacking on a discussion that ended 4 days ago You protest on Lebron's behalf a great deal for a 'Jordan boy'....

For someone claiming that they're wasting their time arguing with me , you are hilariously too stupid to stop yourself from wasting more time, and too stupid to see the irony of asking the other guy 'why waste your time?' :roll: Rattled.... now respond and waste more time

Woah. This guy has been following me around and checking my posts and the time I made every post:oldlol:
Alright,then. You seem upset that I said you don't understand basketball and then proceeded with as hominems in both threads:oldlol: The fact of the matter is, you don't understand anything about basketball. If you think you do, that's great.

As far as lebron goes, I think he's the 2nd best player of all time. So, yes, I'll argue his case against Kareem, Magic and the Birds of the world.
Meanwhile, keep arguing the case for a 12th ranked player ::oldlol:

[Dragonyeuw]

Woah. This guy has been following me around and checking my posts and the time I made every post:oldlol:
Alright,then. You seem upset that I said you don't understand basketball and then proceeded with as hominems in both threads:oldlol: The fact of the matter is, you don't understand anything about basketball. If you think you do, that's great.

As far as lebron goes, I think he's the 2nd best player of all time. So, yes, I'll argue his case against Kareem, Magic and the Birds of the world.
Meanwhile, keep arguing the case for a 12th ranked player ::oldlol:

Any understanding I thought you had about the game went out the door when you said Odom> Marion, champ.

Upset? This is hilarious, especially the time 'wasted' replying to me because you just can't help yourself. Took the bait as expected :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Yep, couldn't help himself from replying to someone he's already admitted as wasting time with. Shock as fcuks :cheers:

You doth seem upset:lol

[Dragonyeuw]

You doth seem upset:lol

Got em again! :rockon:

[Mr Feeny]

Got em again! :rockon:Here he is again:lol too, too easy.

[Dragonyeuw]

Here he is again:lol too, too easy.

Nah, don't work that way bruh. Already exposed you for going into other threads to let off steam because you were losing in the thread where the discussion was taking place. :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Nah, don't work that way bruh. Already exposed you for going into other threads to let off steam because you were losing in the thread where the discussion was taking place. :lol

I have you shook. Yawn. Too easy.

[Dragonyeuw]

I have you shook. Yawn. Too easy.

Nah, you don't get to steal the 'got you shook' angle bruh. That ship already sailed for you.....Get your own shtick :cheers:

[Mr Feeny]

Nah, you don't get to steal the 'got you shook' angle bruh. That ship already sailed for you.....Get your own shtick :cheers:

I have you shook.
MJ 1
Lebron 2
Kobe 12
Cry about it:(

[Dragonyeuw]

I have you shook.
MJ 1
Lebron 2
Kobe 12
Cry about it:(

So because Bron took MJ's number, you gotta steal my shit too? This hero worship shit is going too far broham....Then again, Kobe did steal MJ's game so neither one of them can stand on any moral high ground :lol :coleman:

[Mr Feeny]

So because Bron took MJ's number, you gotta steal my shit too? This hero worship shit is going too far broham....Then again, Kobe did steal MJ's game so neither one of them can stand on any moral high ground :lol :coleman:

Yawn.
Jordan and Lebron chilling the 1&2
Kobe stays at 12.
:applause:

[Dragonyeuw]

Yawn.
Jordan and Lebron chilling the 1&2
Kobe stays at 12.
:applause:

You ain't bored, stop fronting. This is the highlight of your day :cheers: