Would Isiah get props if he left Pistons in 88' and teamed up w/ Jordan & Barkley?

[3ball]

.
What if Hakeem teamed up with Grant Hill and Kemp?.. Would we give these guys props for winning rings?

Obviously not.. So this notion that Lebron deserves props for his rings is dumb as hell

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Phil Jackson
Scottie Pippen

[SouBeachTalents]

Hmmmm, never thought of it in those terms, very insightful and original thread idea. Good to see you making new topics

[hateraid]

If the Piston gave you Boobie Gibson as your co-worker I wouldn't blame him either.

[ShawkFactory]

No but Jordan still would.

[3ball]

Phil Jackson
Scottie Pippen


By including Phil Jackson as one of the players, you prove how weak the roster was on it's own.

Infact, Phil Jackson is the only coach that young fans consider part of the "supporting cast" - that's because the actual ROSTER doesn't support a 6/6 result, so young fans seek other explanations.

However, 6/6 is possible when the team has the goat scorer who achieves his scoring WHILE teammates play to full capacity.. Otoh, when the team leader reduces everyone else's stats, the team needs extra talent (team-hopping) to overcome the stat reduction and still win.
.

[red1]

Jordan only had pippen, grant/rodman, and phil jackson. Perfectly comparable scenario - identical scenarios in fact.

Thank you for your input.

[3ball]

.
Jordan shot better than Curry from midrange, on 6 times the volume:




link to data --->.. JORDAN 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):... 48.9%, 1202 fga

link to dataII.. S CURRY 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 41.1%,. 285 fga
link to dataII.. S CURRY 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season):.. 42.5%,. 200 fga




........................MJ 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)...................Cur ry 2015 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)............ Curry 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/) <--- link to nba.com data

5-9 ft.......... 49.2%, 126 fga........... 40.3%, 72 fga.......... 48.6%, 72 fga

10-14 ft....... 51.5%, 466 fga........... 52.9%, 85 fga.......... 50.9%, 57 fga

15-19 ft....... 49.5%, 594 fga........... 43.9%, 132 fga........ 37.3%, 102 fga



Interestingly, Curry's goat 3-point shooting and Jordan's goat midrange shooting isn't needed to be a top scorer in today's game - Lebron, Westbrook, Wade, Derozan and Butler have poor midrange (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12389778&postcount=41) and 3-point, yet they're still top scorers because today's wide open spacing and hands-off defense allows athletic players easier access to the rim.

MJ's athleticism would benefit the same way, except he had the goat midrange efficiency shown above, which would put him in Curry's category as a goat shooter, and gave him a similarly massive advantage over the aforementioned non-shooters Lebron, Westbrick and company.
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[red1]

By including Phil Jackson as one of the players, you prove how weak the roster was on it's own.

Infact, Phil Jackson is the only coach that young fans consider part of the "supporting cast" - that's because the actual ROSTER doesn't support a 6/6 result, so young fans seek other explanations.
Ok so how about this. If jordan played his career with the roster that lebron left, do you think he would have gone 6/6?

It's called context. Jordan's rosters bulls rosters AND coaching staff were INFINITELY better than what lebron had in his first cavs stint. That is an indisputable fact.

[Kawhi]

By including Phil Jackson as one of the players, you prove how weak the roster was on it's own.

Infact, Phil Jackson is the only coach that young fans consider part of the "supporting cast" - that's because the actual ROSTER doesn't support a 6/6 result, so young fans seek other explanations.
By including Phil Jackson as one of the players, you prove how weak the roster was on it's own.

Infact, Phil Jackson is the only coach that young fans consider part of the "supporting cast" - that's because the actual ROSTER doesn't support a 6/6 result, so young fans seek other explanations.

[red1]

It is relevant to mention coaching in this comparison because we are comparing Phil 11 rings Jackson to Mike potato-head Brown. Are you telling me that there isn't a difference?

[3ball]

.
We can easily prove that Lebron's early Cavs rosters were better than Jordan's early Bulls rosters:



Lebron's 28/8/7 won 66 games in 2009, while Jordan's 33/8/8 only won 47 games in 1989.. The only way Lebron's inferior production can yield 19 more wins is due to a better supporting cast, and probably inferior competition as well.


In 1989, the 47-win Bulls would've missed the 45-win playoff cut without Jordan's 33/8/8.. So that roster was a lottery roster without Jordan in 1989, that Jordan led to a 3-peat beginning in 1991 - that's the goat impact on a lottery team.




Lebron averaged 25 ppg on 45% in the 2007 playoffs, which would be the worst of Jordan's career.

Now why did Lebron get to the Finals by playing worse than Jordan ever did?... Because his conference was the weakest of all-time, which is why he's defeated literally HALF the number of 50-win teams as Jordan in the playoffs.

Lebron's weaker conference and better supporting cast is also why he won more games despite producing less: he won 19 more games in 2009 than Jordan won in 1989, even though his stats were 28/8/7 compared to Jordan's 33/8/8

[warriorfan]

LeBron left his home team to join the 2nd and 4th leaders in PER (D.Wade and Chris Bosh)

What LeBron did was like if MJ left his hometown team to join Karl Malone AND Magic Johnson! (The 2nd and 4th leaders in PER of the 1994 season)

References:
https://s32.postimg.org/lwtnj9nd1/if_Jordan_Colluded90.png

https://s31.postimg.org/d9ndpvc63/lebroncollude.jpg

[Dragonyeuw]

It is relevant to mention coaching in this comparison because we are comparing Phil 11 rings Jackson to Mike potato-head Brown. Are you telling me that there isn't a difference?

It's also relevant to mention that Phil Jackson's entire coaching legacy is tied to having Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'neal, Kobe Bryant and Scottie Pippen. MJ and Shaq were already all-time level performers, proven individual talents when Phil hopped on the train. At the least, there's some modicum of success, if only as individuals, prior to Phil. Kobe was quite obviously on the way to stardom, and Scottie was too to a slightly lesser degree. Phil Jackson literally has done nothing of note without all-time great talent. He did nothing prior to 1989, and got swept out of the playoffs his final coaching season. We need to stop acting like this man's presence guaranteed championships, have you seen the current Knicks? Where's his midas touch now?

[stalkerforlife]

.
What if Hakeem teamed up with Grant Hill and Kemp?.. Would we give these guys props for winning rings?

Obviously not.. So this notion that Lebron deserves props for his rings is dumb as hell

And everyone knows it, too.

The media. The Bransvestites. Websites like this.

July 8th, 2010, and July 11th, 2014, absolutely shattered his legacy.

That's why all the trolls continually try to build him up.