WTF Military Training

[UK2K]

Friend passed these along to me...

I'm all for hard training, and I believe our military is a shell of its former self thanks to the flood of fat bodies, whiny liberals, and unqualified applicants given a pass in the name of equality, but this is absurd.

You know what they say, there's no substitue for the real thing:

Indonesia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEJtM1357PI

Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY9zqSaQDA

I'm a firm believer in weapons safety, and there's nothing safe about this. It's amazing the instructors managed to not hit anybody.

[Lebowsky]

Friend passed these along to me...

I'm all for hard training, and I believe our military is a shell of its former self thanks to the flood of fat bodies, whiny liberals, and unqualified applicants given a pass in the name of equality, but this is absurd.

You know what they say, there's no substitue for the real thing:

Indonesia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEJtM1357PI

Ukraine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJY9zqSaQDA

I'm a firm believer in weapons safety, and there's nothing safe about this. It's amazing the instructors managed to not hit anybody.
I'm in Jakarta at the moment and, after a few days here, I can't say I'm very surprised. This country is absolutely insane, but at the same time, full of the kindest, friendliest people I've ever met.

[UK2K]

I'm in Jakarta at the moment and, after a few days here, I can't say I'm very surprised. This country is absolutely insane, but at the same time, full of the kindest, friendliest people I've ever met.

Ahh, could have gone there myself if I had re-enlisted but it wasn't worth it.

Honestly, technology is why the US is still a military superpower, because the quality of our fighting forces has diminished greatly.

[Lebowsky]

Ahh, could have gone there myself if I had re-enlisted but it wasn't worth it.

Honestly, technology is why the US is still a military superpower, because the quality of our fighting forces has diminished greatly.
It's still very much worth visiting. As I said, the people are absolutely amazing, and so is the food. Still haven't been outside Jakarta yet, as it's just the first few days of the first stop in a long business tour, but I've got a short 3-day weekend trip to Lombok upcoming.
As for the military and police here... I wouldn't mess around with either one. They're easy to see around town, and they seem to be disciplined and well equipped (for a country of this nature).

[Dresta]

Shit is crazy. That's some nice shooting tho...

[senelcoolidge]

That's badass. Insane especially that second video. I would count my steps with just focus.

Do they even get in your face anymore in boot camp these days? I was Air Force and I remember guys getting in my face cursing my ass out..calling me names..until you earned their respect. They couldn't physically touch us though..just literally spit on our faces from their yelling.

[UK2K]

That's badass. Insane especially that second video. I would count my steps with just focus.

Do they even get in your face anymore in boot camp these days? I was Air Force and I remember guys getting in my face cursing my ass out..calling me names..until you earned their respect. They couldn't physically touch us though..just literally spit on our faces from their yelling.

I went through Parris Island in 07, and yes, they scream at you. There's really never a time they aren't screaming at you until the last week or so. As for the other branches, I can't really say. I've heard things but you know...

I still saw plenty of assaults, DI's throwing kids here and there or throwing shit at you (like rucksacks), but it wasn't all that bad. Once you realize it's a game, you just kind of play along...

One kid who claimed he was an amateur gold glove boxer took a swing at one of the DI's and missed, and he took a beating. Other than that though, there wasn't anything that *I* thought was excessive.

Like, we weren't shooting at each other, for example. :lol

[Nick Young]

Ahh, could have gone there myself if I had re-enlisted but it wasn't worth it.

Honestly, technology is why the US is still a military superpower, because the quality of our fighting forces has diminished greatly.
How do we become less shit? Our soldiers should be much better than British ones but they aren't any more. We need the best tech+best trained soldiers, what is preventing that? Too much bureaucracy and politics entering the military?

[UK2K]

How do we become less shit? Our soldiers should be much better than British ones but they aren't any more. We need the best tech+best trained soldiers, what is preventing that? Too much bureaucracy and politics entering the military?

It's a lot of things...

It's hard to prepare for a life and death situation when you aren't allowed to train for a life and death situation.

No more cursing. No more touching. You can't PT someone for longer than 20 minutes (or whatever it is, may be 15). Hell, when I went through, some obstacles on the confidence course were off limits because they were deemed too dangerous.

That's really just boot camp though. I don't know about the other services, but once you got through boot camp and MCT and got to your actual MOS school (mine was Military Police in Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri), all the Mothers of America rules that applied in boot camp don't apply anymore. At that point, you're a Marine and there's nobody around to protect you any more. So shit like low crawling in PT shorts and a t-shirt when there's 2 feet of snow and mud on the ground, that's allowed.

[StephHamann]

Honestly, technology is why the US is still a military superpower, .

It's been that way at least since WW1.

[senelcoolidge]

It's a lot of things...

I some obstacles on the confidence course were off limits because they were deemed too dangerous.



I remember when we did our obstacle course, which was fun. Crawling on the sand under barbwire ripped by abdominal muscles..what a work out. I remember some girl broke her arm when she fell off one of the obstacles (Obama's military for you). After basic I had my technical training and than was sent to my first duty station. I guess it's a similar but our basic is short and probably weak compared to others. But in the AF you have a lot of smart dudes.

[iamgine]

The very definition of missing accurately.

[Nick Young]

It's a lot of things...

It's hard to prepare for a life and death situation when you aren't allowed to train for a life and death situation.

No more cursing. No more touching. You can't PT someone for longer than 20 minutes (or whatever it is, may be 15). Hell, when I went through, some obstacles on the confidence course were off limits because they were deemed too dangerous.

That's really just boot camp though. I don't know about the other services, but once you got through boot camp and MCT and got to your actual MOS school (mine was Military Police in Ft. Leonard Wood, Missouri), all the Mothers of America rules that applied in boot camp don't apply anymore. At that point, you're a Marine and there's nobody around to protect you any more. So shit like low crawling in PT shorts and a t-shirt when there's 2 feet of snow and mud on the ground, that's allowed.


Is British training tougher? I have read so many reports in the middle east where locals prefer the British soldiers because they don't just fire like madmen, and are kinder to the locals, in comparison to the American soldiers who shoot wildly and less accurately in combat but I don't know if those reports are true.

Lots of British people have told me similar anecdotes but I don't know if it's just British propaganda.

Many say the SAS are better trained than our best forces. Some have said that SPETSNAZ are too. Is this true? Why aren't our best guys better than Russia and UK's best guys?

[Dresta]

Is British training tougher? I have read so many reports in the middle east where locals prefer the British soldiers because they don't just fire like madmen, and are kinder to the locals, in comparison to the American soldiers who shoot wildly and less accurately in combat but I don't know if those reports are true.

Lots of British people have told me similar anecdotes but I don't know if it's just British propaganda.

Many say the SAS are better trained than our best forces. Some have said that SPETSNAZ are too. Is this true? Why aren't our best guys better than Russia and UK's best guys?
The British armed forces are in serious decay from what i've heard. The SAS obviously still has a lot of its rightly-earned prestige, but a deterioration of standards in the general military, will filter down to the special forces groups, after all the latter come from the former.

I'm sure the societal repudiation of masculinity has a lot to do with it. All warrior cultures have placed a massive emphasis on it for this reason. Spartan women were more masculine in temperament than most english and american men are today.

[UK2K]

Is British training tougher? I have read so many reports in the middle east where locals prefer the British soldiers because they don't just fire like madmen, and are kinder to the locals, in comparison to the American soldiers who shoot wildly and less accurately in combat but I don't know if those reports are true.

Lots of British people have told me similar anecdotes but I don't know if it's just British propaganda.

Many say the SAS are better trained than our best forces. Some have said that SPETSNAZ are too. Is this true? Why aren't our best guys better than Russia and UK's best guys?

I know when we rolled through Helmand province, the Taliban would let us pass and attack the Army convoys instead. They could tell which branch was which by our uniforms.

That's all I care about.:oldlol:

But to your point, no I think the UK standing army is in better shape than our army is, but that's just a factor of American culture. I worked with a lot of Brits (Leatherneck was half British called Camp Bastion), a few Scots, and some dudes from Georgia. You could tell the other countries looked up to us, and they'd trade anything for a piece of our gear that had an EGA on it. They told us girls in the UK knew the EGA and would know they fought with Marines, which made it easier to get laid.

Don't know if that part was true, but that's what they said.

But yeah, your regular army units will do bizarre shit like 'test fire' their MK-19's against the side of mountains and 'accidentally' drive into people's fences. I know a few guys in their army, and they're legit, but by and large, the Army is a big group of undisciplined children.

As for the special forces though, no. The US still has the most elite special forces anywhere on the planet. As pussified as our training has become in the generic branches of service, our operators' training is still essentially the same.

In fact, I believe a SEAL trainee died just the other day from downing.

[Nick Young]

So our marines and SEALs are still the best but our regular enlisted army men are below their previous standards?


So many British people always tell me SAS are better trained than Marines and SEALs, but I suppose that is probably just British propaganda, and those British people don't know what they're talking about. The whole country seems convinced that the SAS is the most elite special forces unit in the world.

Is SEAL training like the movies and people can tap out at any time if shit becomes too much for them? How'd this dude die in training?

How come our guys are better than SPETSNAZ? Isn't their training extremely spartan and brutal compared to ours because they don't have PC politicians breathing down their necks, or is that too propaganda?

[StephHamann]

I'm sure the societal repudiation of masculinity has a lot to do with it. All warrior cultures have placed a massive emphasis on it for this reason. Spartan women were more masculine in temperament than most english and american men are today.

This is also BS, the western nations want to fight "clean" wars. But you can't win wars in a clean way. It started in Vietnam when the media started covering wars, one picture of a burning little child and everybody wanted to stop the "brutal war" the allies ****ing atom bombed japanese civilians to win WW2. Imagine social media existed back in the WW2 days, no way the western allies would have won the war.

The men are the same, but they are not allowed to fight any more.

[StephHamann]

:facepalm

More intervention and more bombs.

Drones have made it easier to strike without risking American lives but at the same time they are reckless enough to kill innocent people.

Nobody has an idea on what to do. They are drones....oh look...its very easy to strike.

See, you are proving my point.

[UK2K]

So our marines and SEALs are still the best but our regular enlisted army men are below their previous standards?


So many British people always tell me SAS are better trained than Marines and SEALs, but I suppose that is probably just British propaganda, and those British people don't know what they're talking about. The whole country seems convinced that the SAS is the most elite special forces unit in the world.

Is SEAL training like the movies and people can tap out at any time if shit becomes too much for them? How'd this dude die in training?

How come our guys are better than SPETSNAZ? Isn't their training extremely spartan and brutal compared to ours because they don't have PC politicians breathing down their necks, or is that too propaganda?
Marines aren't special forces. The Marine Corps has their own special forces units called Marine Recon. They're basically snipers, counter terrorism units and FAST units. They are basically SEALS or Army Green Berets. The Navy has SEALS, the army has Green Berets, the Marines have Force Recon.

Yes, BUDS is very intense. Off the top of my head, I'd guess 85% don't pass. You can quit whenever you want, it's not mandatory. You have to be in the armed forces first to apply to the school, and they only pick the best of the best. Honestly, I could have physically made it though BUDS, but mentally when they drown you, or make you tread in freezing water for hours in the middle of the night... that's brutal. A lot of guys in the military in good physical condition could make it, but it's that mental aspect where people drop out.

The SAS is legit, I would say the SAS, SPETSNAZ, and the SEALS and Marine Recon are more or less equal. There's a lot more Green Berets than there are SEALS and Recon Marines.

I would say the Russian special forces may be slightly behind, but only because they don't have the technology or intelligence that the US and UK have.

[Nick Young]

Marines aren't special forces. The Marine Corps has their own special forces units called Marine Recon. They're basically snipers, counter terrorism units and FAST units. They are basically SEALS or Army Green Berets. The Navy has SEALS, the army has Green Berets, the Marines have Force Recon.

Yes, BUDS is very intense. Off the top of my head, I'd guess 85% don't pass. You can quit whenever you want, it's not mandatory. You have to be in the armed forces first to apply to the school, and they only pick the best of the best. Honestly, I could have physically made it though BUDS, but mentally when they drown you, or make you tread in freezing water for hours in the middle of the night... that's brutal. A lot of guys in the military in good physical condition could make it, but it's that mental aspect where people drop out.

The SAS is legit, I would say the SAS, SPETSNAZ, and the SEALS and Marine Recon are more or less equal. There's a lot more Green Berets than there are SEALS and Recon Marines.

I would say the Russian special forces may be slightly behind, but only because they don't have the technology or intelligence that the US and UK have.
Thanks for the in depth reply.:cheers:

[UK2K]

Thanks for the in depth reply.:cheers:
If you've heard of the Lonely Survivor story, this is Marcus Luttrell speaking on it.

The video is an hour long, but once you watch the first minute or two, you'll be hooked. He talks about his childhood and what led him to become a SEAL, and obviously he goes in depth about what happened on the mountain that day.

https://vimeo.com/95161028

Good stuff. I watch videos like this all the time. That's how you stay motivated. I say 'it can always be worse', and I meant it, because Ive been there and I see these guys and hear their stories.

I read the book years ago, but I think he talks a bit about SEAL training here.

It starts at the 14 minute mark. He said there were 164 guys in his class, and 10 finished.

[Nick Young]

Thanks.


I spoke to my friend and he said British SAS have a 32 week selection process and a 4 year training process before becoming fully fledged SAS.

Is it possible that SEAL training compares to that even though the training period is much shorter?

How are our guys better than dudes who train for 3 years longer?