LeBron still has a realistic shot at GOAT...whether you like it or not

[Fudge]

That is all.

If he gets either a league MVP or FMVP (or both), he's on par with MJ, definitely surpassing KAJ.

And another one of either of those awards in 2018 and he surpasses Jordan.

Somebody tell me otherwise.

[SouBeachTalents]

GOAT? Nah, he's not gonna catch Jordan. He honestly could surpass everyone else by the end of his career though, 2nd GOAT is definitely in play

[RRR3]

GOAT? Nah, he's not gonna catch Jordan. He honestly could surpass everyone else by the end of his career though, 2nd GOAT is definitely in play
He's not going to catch Jordan, but technically he still has a chance, although given that he's declining it's incredibly illogical to expect him to do so. Regardless, there will be people arguing him for GOAT, just like there still are for KAJ, Wilt, Russell, and even Kobe by his insane fans.

[NBAGOAT]

he needs Kareem type longevity(top 5 at least for like 4-5 more years) to have a chance but even with that, his resume would be pretty similar to kareem's and not many have kareem over Jordan. Only other way is if he somehow reaches another level peak wise and has a year even better than 09 or 13 but tht's not happening.

[Im Still Ballin]

One more FMVP and it pretty much creates as much distance between Jordan and 2nd, between 2 and the rest.... Basically, Just how Jordan is consensus GOAT, LeBron is consensus 2nd GOAT

Even if he doesn't get any more, I still feel like, with his career volume, he has as stronger argument for 2nd GOAT over Kareem or Magic

[CTbasketball92]

He's not going to catch Jordan, but technically he still has a chance, although given that he's declining it's incredibly illogical to expect him to do so. Regardless, there will be people arguing him for GOAT, just like there still are for KAJ, Wilt, Russell, and even Kobe by his insane fans.

Not even tryna play you but ... after what we just saw in the finals and playoffs (30 PER) can we even say he's really declining? Is 2016 LeBron not better than 97-98 MJ? I think they're a tie in terms of peak impact, but I'd count on MJ beating LeBron in a finals if all things are equal.

If LeBron is able to stay at around this level till' 2019 or so ... sheesh. At least another FMVP.

[RRR3]

Not even tryna play you but ... after what we just saw in the finals and playoffs (30 PER) can we even say he's really declining? Is 2016 LeBron not better than 97-98 MJ? I think they're a tie in terms of peak impact, but I'd count on MJ beating LeBron in a finals if all things are equal.

If LeBron is able to stay at around this level till' 2019 or so ... sheesh. At least another FMVP.
IDK man, I don't consider myself anywhere near an expert on the NBA (outside of knowing players. I would guess I probably know the names of more NBA players than most people on ISH, but that's just because I internalize stuff like that for whatever reason), so I can't judge 97-98 MJ vs current LeBron. LeBron had an amazing finals, but peak LeBron ends that series before 7 games IMO.

[Im Still Ballin]

LeBron really just feasts against Small-ball. You'd think Draymond could check him, but LeBron is a terrible matchup for him. When you make LeBron the biggest player on the court, you're playing very dangerously.

What I was most impressed with him this playoffs/finals was... His defense. GOAT tier finals performance defensively.

[jstern]

Wouldn't Lebron be the same MVP type player whether he wins the MVP next year or not? He's a top 5 talent, but in terms of as a player we've already seen enough of both to know. If Curry didn't choke big time, or could handle playoff type defense and hit a couple of more shots, would Lebron still not be the same player? For me I don't even consider Jordan's rings to be the reason why he's Top 1. It's more about his play, and his play to get those rings that stands out. Just like the way Lebron played would stand out had he not won the ring last month.

[Im Still Ballin]

Wouldn't Lebron be the same MVP type player whether he wins the MVP next year or not? He's a top 5 talent, but in terms of as a player we've already seen enough of both to know. If Curry didn't choke big time, or could handle playoff type defense and hit a couple of more shots, would Lebron still not be the same player? For me I don't even consider Jordan's rings to be the reason why he's Top 1. It's more about his play, and his play to get those rings that stands out. Just like the way Lebron played would stand out had he not won the ring last month.
These GOAT/Legacy rankings are more so what they've done, compared to who they are. The distinction would be Great vs. Best. Because, LeBron has always been in a class with perhaps Jordan, Shaq... Maybe a few others, maybe not.. That's it. But now LeBron has the accolades to be considered one of the "greatest" top 5 players ever, which is why this 3rd championship, irrelevant of the herculean context, solidifies his legacy.

[Cone]

I have him top 3. But very likely #1 when he retires.

Scary thing? He's only 31.

[jstern]

These GOAT/Legacy rankings are more so what they've done, compared to who they are. The distinction would be Great vs. Best. Because, LeBron has always been in a class with perhaps Jordan, Shaq... Maybe a few others, maybe not.. That's it. But now LeBron has the accolades to be considered one of the "greatest" top 5 players ever, which is why this 3rd championship, irrelevant of the herculean context, solidifies his legacy.

Yeah, I understand. But look at players like Kobe, who ranks number 12th. He won one championship averaging 15ppg, 3 all together as a side kick, and then two more where he beat under horrible Finals teams where he under performed by good margin. I estimate that there are 24 more impactful players talent wise than him, in the history of the league, with the majority of those 24 never getting the chance of being on good enough teams. I mean 24th out of thousands is nothing to sneeze at, but still.

[Spurs m8]

Nope.

Whether you like it or not tbh...

[KiiiiNG]

In my head, I see him as the best all-around player to ever lace em up. Many agree with me. He's the greatest athlete ever, and potentially one of the most skilled ever for his size/strength. He's 6,8" built like a rocket ship, and passes the rock like Magic ****in' Johnson. Has underrated dexterity, makes finishing layups going full speed look easy. Has the touch of a skilled heart surgeon. His instincts on both ends are impeccable. Any athlete knows this. The way he naturally times his chase-down blocks for example; that's a gift. It's what we call anticipation. And he has that on both ends. So when you combine his incredible mental gifts with his incredible physical gifts, it's no surprise why he's been the undisputed number 1 guy for almost 10 years straight.

Crazy thing is, he's not close to being finished. Still has at least 3 years of elite play left, and in total 7-8 years of great basketball.

GOAT athlete no question.

[Sarcastic]

It's a shot, but it's not realistic.

He's basically Tiger Woods trying to catch Jack. Good job. Good effort. But nahhhh.

[ClipperRevival]

He's got a shot. His 2016 finals really shot him up the all time rankings and carries a lot of weight. Most now have him solid top 5 with some at top 3. If he beats GSW a couple more times, there will be a lot of people putting him in the same table as MJ.

But he will be 32 next season. Father time is catching up. MJ 3 peated at the age 33-35. It's his 2nd 3 peat that really solidified his consensus GOAT status. It comes down to what LeBron does from here on out. History is not on his side though. What MJ did was the exception and not the rule. Realistically, LeBron will have about 2 elite athletic years left. Then he'll start to lose a step and continue to decline.

[bobopenguin]

:lol

bron stans are crazy.

[ClipperRevival]

In my head, I see him as the best all-around player to ever lace em up. Many agree with me. He's the greatest athlete ever, and potentially one of the most skilled ever for his size/strength. He's 6,8" built like a rocket ship, and passes the rock like Magic ****in' Johnson. Has underrated dexterity, makes finishing layups going full speed look easy. Has the touch of a skilled heart surgeon. His instincts on both ends are impeccable. Any athlete knows this. The way he naturally times his chase-down blocks for example; that's a gift. It's what we call anticipation. And he has that on both ends. So when you combine his incredible mental gifts with his incredible physical gifts, it's no surprise why he's been the undisputed number 1 guy for almost 10 years straight.

Crazy thing is, he's not close to being finished. Still has at least 3 years of elite play left, and in total 7-8 years of great basketball.

GOAT athlete no question.

Let's not make one GOAT level finals skew reality. His footwork was always questionable and that is a fundamental part of the game. With his size/strength and him being guarded by the smaller man 90% of the time, he could've developed a great post game and taken his impact and efficiency up another level. He never had a great midrange game. Not great from the triple threat position. Not great in iso situations. Not great with a live dribbe. Bad first step. Not a good two foot leaper.

And despite all these flaws, he still achieved so much. And that is a testament to his amazing natural athleticism. In terms of overall impact on the game, few were better but let's not pretend he didn't have flaws. He just overwhelmed his opponents with his athleticism many times. Like those chase down blocks? That's the ultimate epitome of natural athleticism. Sure, timing has some to do with it but it mostly comes down to can you get there. But he was a very cerebral player and was devastating when he had a head of steam.

[Psileas]

LeBron still has a realistic shot at GOAT...whether you like it or not

Of course he does. If we're talking about realistic options, who is the GOAT is a matter of personal opinion and you shouldn't care what the majority believes.

[ArbitraryWater]

IDK man, I don't consider myself anywhere near an expert on the NBA (outside of knowing players. I would guess I probably know the names of more NBA players than most people on ISH, but that's just because I internalize stuff like that for whatever reason), so I can't judge 97-98 MJ vs current LeBron. LeBron had an amazing finals, but peak LeBron ends that series before 7 games IMO.

which LeBron would have ended that series before 7 games, considering LeBron never had a finals series nearly as good? :hammerhead:

He wasnt this mentally strong and battle tested ever before... players go different paths.

Yes, current LeBron is an upgrade on '97-'98 MJ. Thats not hard to see.

[ArbitraryWater]

He's got a shot. His 2016 finals really shot him up the all time rankings and carries a lot of weight. Most now have him solid top 5 with some at top 3. If he beats GSW a couple more times, there will be a lot of people putting him in the same table as MJ.

But he will be 32 next season. Father time is catching up. MJ 3 peated at the age 33-35. It's his 2nd 3 peat that really solidified his consensus GOAT status. It comes down to what LeBron does from here on out. History is not on his side though. What MJ did was the exception and not the rule. Realistically, LeBron will have about 2 elite athletic years left. Then he'll start to lose a step and continue to decline.

going out on a limb I see

The just 1-2 month ago win over the 73-win team did that... but as expected, once something happens, suddenly there are more barriers to cross.

[feyki]

He lost that chance with his first two finals .

20-7-7 , %49 TS , 5 TO's , 94 Ortg , 108 Drtg :confusedshrug: .

[andgar923]

Accomplishments and stats aside, he doesn't come close.

His game is lacking when compared to MJ's.

[nathanjizzle]

on par with jordan? :roll:

[Gileraracer]

This puta can't even shoot nor win a ring without colluding with 2 other superstars. He shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence as Jordan.

[Dro]

lol

[Klay 3D]

He needs 6+ rings or else play at a high level until he's like 42.

[SilkkTheShocker]

He needs 6+ rings or else play at a high level until he's like 42.

Not sure why he would need 6 rings. Every team LeBron beat in the Finals was superior than any team Jordan beat in the Finals. LeBron would had dragged his nuts over the Jazz and Blazers :oldlol: