What exactly is the argument for Kobe still being over LeBron?

[RRR3]

There isn't a rational one.

[Gileraracer]

More rings. Doesn't flop that much. Didn't need to collude with two other top 10 players in the league twice to win rings.

[Mr Feeny]

Yawn. Why are we comparing the 2nd best player of all time to a guy who's not even top 11 and has less than half Lebron's combined mvps, failed to hit 47% for any of his 20 seasons, and shoots 40% in nba finals and 25% in finals game 7's?

[K.dot ShowTime]

More rings. Doesn't flop that much. Didn't need to collude with two other top 10 players in the league twice to win rings.

THIS.

Kobe is head and shoulders above LeBron.

5 > 1.5*

[FKAri]

Kobe is a more reliable midrange scorer vs tough defenses. He is in general a better scorer vs elite defenses. But Lebron has him beat in every other category.

[JebronLames]

Ummm.....


Ehhh........Kobe is .........he scores more......oh wait nvm

He......

Umm......

He has......dammit.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe is a more reliable midrange scorer vs tough defenses. He is in general a better scorer vs elite defenses. But Lebron has him beat in every other category.

Except that on the highest stage, in the finals, he's a 40%fg shooter and a 25% finals scorer:(

[warriorfan]

op, kobe retired, you can let him out of your chubby head now

[RRR3]

I said RATIONAL arguments. Kobe having more rings doesn't work anymore considering LeBron has more as the first option. Unless you rank John Havlicek over Jordan. The rest is just the typical character assassination stuff. "LeBron flops :cry:" "LeAsterisk :cry:". You guys literally can't give a reason based upon ABILITY TO PLAY BASKETBALL as to why Kobe is better. Because deep down you know he isn't.

[RRR3]

op, kobe retired, you can let him out of your chubby head now
You're just mad ZVC isn't even in this discussion.

[knicksman]

:sleeping only losers respect bran. Until lebron mans up, he will never be better than kobe

[RRR3]

Another pathetic "argument". LeBron needs to "man up" :roll:


Whatever. Still waiting on how Kobe is a better basketball player

[knicksman]

Kobe kicked superstars to be respected yet bran stans wanted lebron to be respected for joining superstars:cry:


In the end, 1st option rings are more respected than ringchasers. But most bran stans are dumb like casual fans so they dont know how to apply context

[Dictator]

The weight of Kobe rings puts him over Lebron. Arguments aren't all about black and white numbers, there has to be context. The fact that Lebron had to reconstruct the eastern conference just to win doesn't add much value.

Lets say Durant 3peats with golden state averaging his regular playoff numbers. I still wouldn't value the rings as much as Lebrons, Kobes, or Michaels, because of the team he is on.

[G0ATbe]

5 > 2.5*

0 rings and 0-1 without 2 superstars, 2.5*/6 with 2 superstars. Nuff said.

I could expand more but i'm not going to get into an argument I know i've already won.

[RRR3]

Kobe kicked superstars to be respected yet bran stans wanted lebron to be respected for joining superstars:cry:


In the end, 1st option rings are more respected than ringchasers. But most bran stans are dumb like casual fans so they dont know how to apply context
LeBron has more 1st option rings, idiot.




















This thread is just confirming the only argument is "RANGZ DOE". Not even rings as the best player anymore, either. As if LeBron couldn't have averaged 15 PPG on 36% shooting in the 2000 finals. :oldlol: LeBron's rings get asterisks because you don't like him, but all of Kobe's rings count, despite the fact that the 2002 WCF is infamous for its biased calls? :roll:

[Nilocon165]

5 > 2.5*

0 rings and 0-1 without 2 superstars, 2.5*/6 with 2 superstars. Nuff said.

I could expand more but i'm not going to get into an argument I know i've already won.
This is code for "Bron beats Kobe in literally everything else but I'm gonna say some stupid "ringz" shit then leave."

[RRR3]

So, if I've got this right, here are the arguments for why Kobe is better than LeBron


1. LeBron is a colluding cheater
2. LeBron flops
3. LeBron plays in a weak conference
4. LeBron plays on stacked teams
5. LeBron gets helped by the refs and Silver
6. Kobe has more RANGZ



Notice how none of those reasons have anything to do with the ability of LeBron or Kobe as a player? :oldlol:

[Dictator]

You guys ask for an actual argument and then proceed to cry when we bring up Lebron restructuring the East.

On ability, Kobe is a better scorer, shooter, post player, better halfcourt defender. Lebron is a better passer, better fullcourt defender.

[RRR3]

You guys ask for an actual argument and then proceed to cry when we bring up Lebron restructuring the East.

On ability, Kobe is a better scorer, shooter, post player. Lebron is a better passer.
That's not an argument. That's an attempt to discredit LeBron. It doesn't make Kobe better than him. LeBron may be a "cheating, flopping, colluding coward". He's still a better basketball player than Kobe. He just beat a 73 win team. While he had great help from Kyrie, you can't say he was playing with two stars since Love was injured and did not play anything like himself in the finals.

[Dictator]

That's not an argument. That's an attempt to discredit LeBron. It doesn't make Kobe better than him. LeBron may be a "cheating, flopping, colluding coward". He's still a better basketball player than Kobe. He just beat a 73 win team. While he had great help from Kyrie, you can't say he was playing with two stars since Love was injured and did not play anything like himself in the finals.

Players are ranked on Ability and Accolades. Since when did we only rank players based on ability? If that was the case, Curry or Durant should be ranked higher than Lebron and Kobe.

[Old Man River]

3-6 = 12th best

[RRR3]

Players are ranked on Ability and Accolades. Since when did we only rank players based on ability? If that was the case, Curry or Durant should be ranked higher than Lebron and Kobe.
:biggums: LeBron at his best is better than Curry and Durant, so no, that's not true at all. LeBron has the accolades. He has 4 MVPS to Kobe's 1, and 3 FMVPS to Kobe's 2. When we list these accolades, you discredit them. Your arguments for Kobe being better is that "LeBron's accomplishments don't count". Do you not see how silly that is? :hammerhead:

[Dictator]

:biggums: LeBron at his best is better than Curry and Durant, so no, that's not true at all. LeBron has the accolades. He has 4 MVPS to Kobe's 1, and 3 FMVPS to Kobe's 2. When we list these accolades, you discredit them. Your arguments for Kobe being better is that "LeBron's accomplishments don't count". Do you not see how silly that is? :hammerhead:

No. You forgot to mention the fact that Kobe has 5rings compared to Lebron's 3. Lebron's rings count but they simply don't compare to the value of Kobes. You're trying to give a player full credit for eliminating competition. Russell has 11 rings but MJ is still considered the goat. Context is key.

And what year was Lebron better than this years Curry?

[NBAGOAT]

you've got to put an emphasis on not just scoring but also scoring skillset. As FKAri said Kobe's a better midrange shooter and takes more midrange shots in general. That should work better vs better defenses on paper who usually concede midrange shots and Kobe has some great success vs great defenses like the Spurs. Kobe fans could also argue with 35ppg and 81 saying Kobe at his very best is a better scorer than Lebron. Kobe's orapm was l better than Lebron during his prime(not sure if numbers are right) and was pretty damn elite which shows he's one of the most impactful on offense but those were Lebron's early years(06-08), not his prime years. Any argument for Kobe>Lebron on defense better completely focus on man defense and all-nba teams and ignore consistent effort. It's been made before by kobe guys but it's just a really weak one.

[RRR3]

No. You forgot to mention the fact that Kobe has 5rings compared to Lebron's 3. Lebron's rings count but they simply don't compare to the value of Kobes. You're trying to give a player full credit for eliminating competition. Russell has 11 rings but MJ is still considered the goat. Context is key.

And what year was Lebron better than this years Curry?
I'll take 12 and 13 LeBron over Curry for sure. Curry's production is helped greatly by the situation he is in. You also keep ignoring that Kobe's first ring was as a clear sidekick. How on earth does that help him in this argument? You are assigning rings values, which is completely arbitrary. Russell should be ranked over Jordan if people on ISH cared about consistency, but they don't.

[RRR3]

you've got to put an emphasis on not just scoring but also scoring skillset. As FKAri said Kobe's a better midrange shooter and takes more midrange shots in general. That should work better vs better defenses on paper who usually concede midrange shots and Kobe has some great success vs great defenses like the Spurs. Kobe fans could also argue with 35ppg and 81 saying Kobe at his very best is a better scorer than Lebron. Kobe's orapm was l better than Lebron during his prime(not sure if numbers are right) and was pretty damn elite which shows he's one of the most impactful on offense but those were Lebron's early years(06-08), not his prime years. Any argument for Kobe>Lebron on defense better completely focus on man defense and all-nba teams and ignore consistent effort. It's been made before by kobe guys but it's just a really weak one.
I find it interesting that the only two decent arguments I've gotten in this thread are from non-Kobe fans playing devil's advocate.

[NBAGOAT]

I find it interesting that the only two decent arguments I've gotten in this thread are from non-Kobe fans playing devil's advocate.

I've talked to quite a few Kobe fans irl before. The amount who think he's 1 or 2 all time easily is just disrespectful to other legends. Other gems I've heard include someone saying Kobe is the best all around player of all time and Duncan never being better than Kobe any year(I even specifically asked him what about years like 98 or 99 and he still stuck with it). Even the less crazy dudes have some grade school argument like 35, 81, or killer instinct.

[ArbitraryWater]

So, if I've got this right, here are the arguments for why Kobe is better than LeBron


1. LeBron is a colluding cheater
2. LeBron flops
3. LeBron plays in a weak conference
4. LeBron plays on stacked teams
5. LeBron gets helped by the refs and Silver
6. Kobe has more RANGZ



Notice how none of those reasons have anything to do with the ability of LeBron or Kobe as a player? :oldlol:

its all buzz... nothing behind it. Its done. Finito. Nothing to say at this point.

[Dictator]

15-16 Curry was almost rule-changing level.

Anyway. Kobe is a better scorer, shooter, post-player, and man defender than lebron as I've stated previously. Kobe also has more rings. I can list plenty of Kobe accolades but I'm pretty sure you guys are familiar with them. Kobe being over Lebron or Lebron being over Kobe comes down to how you value rings. Same as how people value MVPs.

[ArbitraryWater]

15-16 Curry was almost rule-changing level.

Anyway. Kobe is a better scorer, shooter, post-player, and man defender than lebron as I've stated previously. Kobe also has more rings. I can list plenty of Kobe accolades but I'm pretty sure you guys are familiar with them. Kobe being over Lebron or Lebron being over Kobe comes down to how you value rings. Same as how people value MVPs.

Kobe is not a better scorer by any point of evidence, he's never ranked as well in the post as Bron did in the '12 playoffs, or '13-'14. And him being a better man defender is very limited, considering he's only really a better man defender in perhaps a one possession limit.

[warriorfan]

So, if I've got this right, here are the arguments for why Kobe is better than LeBron


1. LeBron is a colluding cheater
2. LeBron flops
3. LeBron plays in a weak conference
4. LeBron plays on stacked teams
5. LeBron gets helped by the refs and Silver
6. Kobe has more RANGZ



Notice how none of those reasons have anything to do with the ability of LeBron or Kobe as a player? :oldlol:

All of those are directly linked with the ability of the player

Kobe doesn't flop

Kobe doesn't jump ship when the going gets tough

Kobe doesn't collude

Kobe doesn't offensive foul all the time to get to the hoop

Kobe doesn't pout after trash talk

Kobe's mom isn't getting plowed by da real lambo

Kobe is just a more respectable player and all around better person

[RRR3]

All of those are directly linked with the ability of the player

Kobe doesn't flop false

Kobe doesn't jump ship when the going gets tough didn't have to. He tried, though.

Kobe doesn't collude :rolleyes:

Kobe doesn't offensive foul all the time to get to the hoop LeBron doesn't smack people in the face

Kobe doesn't pout after trash talk irrelevant and an opinion

Kobe's mom isn't getting plowed by da real lamb literally has nothing to do with anything

Kobe is just a more respectable player and all around better person LeBron was never accused of rape
....

[Doranku]

He doesn't really have one after these finals. LeBron is top 5, Kobe is top 10.

[warriorfan]

lebron bowed out and took the easy road

kobe stayed true to his team and city and did it the right way

spin it how you want

doesn't change the facts

[TheWinningFam]

lebron bowed out and took the easy road

kobe stayed true to his team and city and did it the right way

spin it how you want

doesn't change the facts

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-on-2007-trade-request-bulls-were-my-no-1-choice/

[warriorfan]

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-on-2007-trade-request-bulls-were-my-no-1-choice/

Kobe was using the trade request and leverage to make sure the Lakers ownership would give him something to work with besides Smush Parker and Kwami Brown.

It worked and Kobe lead his originally drafted team to back to back championships

[TheWinningFam]

Kobe was using the trade request and leverage to make sure the Lakers ownership would give him something to work with besides Smush Parker and Kwami Brown.

It worked and Kobe lead his originally drafted team to back to back championships
You cant use a trade request and leverage :facepalm read what you just typed
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/kobe-bryant-on-2007-trade-request-bulls-were-my-no-1-choice/

[red1]

He doesn't really have one after these finals. LeBron is top 5, Kobe is top 10.
I never thought I would see this. On one hand we have ******* like stalker going back on their word after saying they'll leave if the warriors lose. ******* who now claim the NBA is rigged.

On the other hand we have Doranku. Salute. :applause:

[Dictator]

Kobe is not a better scorer by any point of evidence, he's never ranked as well in the post as Bron did in the '12 playoffs, or '13-'14. And him being a better man defender is very limited, considering he's only really a better man defender in perhaps a one possession limit.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html

Check the advanced shooting stats especially without Kobe's injury years. Kobe is a better scorer.

Even with Kobe's 97, 98, 14, 15, 16 years added, his numbers still aren't that bad compared to Lebron.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=bryanko01&p2=jamesle01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

[JebronLames]

He doesn't really have one after these finals. LeBron is top 5, Kobe is top 10.
:roll: idiot Kobe Stan. LeBron is top 3, buddy.

Make an objective post for once.

[Smoke117]

I find it interesting that the only two decent arguments I've gotten in this thread are from non-Kobe fans playing devil's advocate.

What did you expect? The kobe stans are far and away the dumbest posters here. They don't know anything about basketball.

[Real14]

Look at kobe's finals record. With or without Shaq he had still had a better record. He didn't have to get reggie miller, hedo, iverson, shuttlesworth or Pierce suspended in a finals game for no reason. Wasnt scared to enter a damn dunk contest. Never with two top 10 prime superstars in his prime. Better scorer, more clutch and way better fighter. Lebron has more asterisks and more help from refs. Better looking wife. Jordan respect him a lot more than lebron too. How many stars today will actually lie and say that Bronna is better all time? should I go on?? This is too damn easy.:facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

No. You forgot to mention the fact that Kobe has 5rings compared to Lebron's 3. Lebron's rings count but they simply don't compare to the value of Kobes. You're trying to give a player full credit for eliminating competition. Russell has 11 rings but MJ is still considered the goat. Context is key.

And what year was Lebron better than this years Curry?

I can't even begin to imagine how high someone must be to make a statement this stupid.:oldlol:

[TheWinningFam]

Look at kobe's finals record. With or without Shaq he had still had a better record. He didn't have to get reggie miller, hedo, iverson, shuttlesworth or Pierce suspended in a finals game for no reason. Wasnt scared to enter a damn dunk contest. Never with two top 10 prime superstars in his prime. Better scorer, more clutch and way better fighter. Lebron has more asterisks and more help from refs. Better looking wife. Jordan respect him a lot more than lebron too. How many stars today will actually lie and say that Bronna is better all time? should I go on?? This is too damn easy.:facepalm
Again using ad homs and personal opinions rather than stating facts or statistics that back up your claim :facepalm

''but bran stans are retarded''

[Mr Feeny]

Look at kobe's finals record. With or without Shaq he had still had a better record. He didn't have to get reggie miller, hedo, iverson, shuttlesworth or Pierce suspended in a finals game for no reason. Wasnt scared to enter a damn dunk contest. Never with two top 10 prime superstars in his prime. Better scorer, more clutch and way better fighter. Lebron has more asterisks and more help from refs. Better looking wife. Jordan respect him a lot more than lebron too. How many stars today will actually lie and say that Bronna is better all time? should I go on?? This is too damn easy.:facepalm

Yawn.

[Dictator]

I can't even begin to imagine how high someone must be to make a statement this stupid.:oldlol:

Nothing is stupid about the statement, its also the same mentality that others (lebron stans) take on the possibility of Durant winning with Goldenstate.

[Mr Feeny]

Nothing is stupid about the statement, its also the same mentality that others (lebron stans) take on the possibility of Durant winning with Goldenstate.

I'm only going to guess that you're a Durant fan who's upset about the negative coverage and perception Durant has gotten since he jumped ship to the team with the best record in nba history. And that's fine

But on no planet are Kobe's rings anywhere near Lebron's rings.
Getting a ring as a role player averaging 15 ppg on 36% in the finals while Shaq gets 38 ppg and 17 rpg is not more valuable than becoming the only man in history to lead both teams in all statistical categories and nearly averaging a 30 point triple double in the finals while putting up a top 5 defensive performance in finals history.

If you can't see that this is stupid, then there's no point in having a discussion.

[warriorfan]

I'm only going to guess that you're a Durant fan who's upset about the negative coverage and perception Durant has gotten since he jumped ship to the team with the best record in nba history. And that's fine

But on no planet are Kobe's rings anywhere near Lebron's rings.
Getting a ring as a role player averaging 15 ppg on 36% in the finals while Shaq gets 38 ppg and 17 rpg is not more valuable than becoming the only man in history to lead both teams in all statistical categories and nearly averaging a 30 point triple double in the finals while putting up a top 5 defensive performance in finals history.

If you can't see that this is stupid, then there's no point in having a discussion.

If you think what Kevin Durant did was bad

In reality, what LeBron did was worse

LeBron left his hometown team to join the players with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league (Wade and Bosh)

https://s31.postimg.org/d9ndpvc63/lebroncollude.jpg





That would be the same as Curry leaving his hometown to join Kevin Durant AND Russell Westbrook in OKC (joining with the 2nd and 4th highest PER)

https://s31.postimg.org/japo0i0yz/King_Curry.png

[tpols]

To win multiple titles, all Kobe needed was Pau and Odom, who are Bosh, Love level players. Bron otoh needed Bosh, Love, Kyrie, and Wade to win in a weaker conference. We can only imagine how much Kobe would've won with more help and less competition...




http://i.giphy.com/231fZ9lECp4zu.gif

[Mr Feeny]

If you think what Kevin Durant did was bad

In reality, what LeBron did was worse

LeBron left his hometown team to join the players with the 2nd and 4th highest PER in the league (Wade and Bosh)

https://s31.postimg.org/d9ndpvc63/lebroncollude.jpg





That would be the same as Curry leaving his hometown to join Kevin Durant AND Russell Westbrook in OKC (joining with the 2nd and 4th highest PER)

https://s31.postimg.org/japo0i0yz/King_Curry.png

Interesting how you looked at PER.
Let is focus not on PER for a single season but career PER since you love it so much!

Lebron has the 2nd highest PER all time behind Jordan which makes him the 2nd greatest player ever.
Kobe is 23rd all time:roll:

[red1]

To win multiple titles, all Kobe needed was Pau and Odom, who are Bosh, Love level players. Bron otoh needed Bosh, Love, Kyrie, and Wade to win in a weaker conference. We can only imagine how much Kobe would've won with more help and less competition...




http://i.giphy.com/231fZ9lECp4zu.gif
:facepalm I hope you don't believe this.

[Mr Feeny]

:facepalm I hope you don't believe this.It's a sad attempt by a Kobe stan still reeling from his depression after this year's finals, to troll.

They're unravelling:lol

[warriorfan]

Interesting how you looked at PER.
Let is focus not on PER for a single season but career PER since you love it so much!

Lebron has the 2nd highest PER all time behind Jordan which makes him the 2nd greatest player ever.
Kobe is 23rd all time:roll:

PER is calculated on a single season basis and is not meant to be used cumulatively

One stat-line one season will give a different PER calculation then the same stats in a different season

That is why it is meant for single season comparisons with players with similar playing time

[ArbitraryWater]

:facepalm I hope you don't believe this.

he doesnt, which is why he does those gifs nowadays... but I did not expect these poor summaries coming from him :lol

[tpols]

:facepalm I hope you don't believe this.

whats to believe?

weaker conference? statement of fact. Pau, Love, and Bosh similar all star PFs before they hopped on board? opinion, but not far fetched at all .. btw , i'm even tossing you a bone by including Lamar in that group because I feel he's underrated ... And then Wade and Kyrie are just complete overkill..

[ArbitraryWater]

whats to believe?

weaker conference? statement of fact. Pau, Love, and Bosh similar all star PFs before they hopped on board? opinion, but not far fetched at all .. btw , i'm even tossing you a bone by including Lamar in that group because I feel he's underrated ... And then Wade and Kyrie are just complete overkill..

Who's better? 2010 Gasol or 2012 Wade? 2009 Gasol or 2013 Wade? Or switch the Gasol versions. Are they on the same level? Surely 2013 Wade is last, we should be set on that one, right?

[tpols]

Who's better? 2010 Gasol or 2012 Wade? 2009 Gasol or 2013 Wade? Or switch the Gasol versions. Are they on the same level? Surely 2013 Wade is last, we should be set on that one, right?

saw this coming ... you guys dont get credit for Lebron reducing Wade's role and not being a good fit with him. Thats.. a bad thing for Lebron. Same goes for how he reduced Love and Bosh down to nothin over time.. you dont get credit for that lol. while Kobe otoh made Pau better .. his numbers all skyrocket next to Kobe because they were the perfect supremely skilled inside outside duo. you're essentially using the fact that Kobe doesnt reduce his teammates productions against Kobe .. which makes no sense.

Kobe making Pau look better than Wade is an indictment on Bron.. not Kobe.

[ArbitraryWater]

saw this coming ... you guys dont get credit for Lebron reducing Wade's role and not being a good fit with him. Thats.. a bad thing for Lebron. Same goes for how he reduced Love and Bosh down to nothin over time.. you dont get credit for that lol. while Kobe otoh made Pau better .. his numbers all skyrocket next to Kobe because they were the perfect supremely skilled inside outside duo. that.. doesnt get to be used against Kobe.


Kobe making Pau look better than Wade is an indictment on Bron.. not Kobe.

Riiiight... yet if it was Wade vs Kobe, youd give Wade shit for declining, not adapting a mid range game n what not (and rightfully so).... funny how weve never heard this side when it came to Wade against Kobe or Dirk... there was no conceivable way Wade could have overcome that damning LeBron, reducing his play! Right?



Jesus :facepalm

[red1]

whats to believe?

weaker conference? statement of fact. Pau, Love, and Bosh similar all star PFs before they hopped on board? opinion, but not far fetched at all .. btw , i'm even tossing you a bone by including Lamar in that group because I feel he's underrated ... And then Wade and Kyrie are just complete overkill..
Bro, the teammate argument is just ridiculous coming from a kobe stan. He had the best frontcourt in the league for all of his championships- and that doesn't take anything away because every single champion in nba history had good teammates.

Instead how about you look at who the better player is on the court and look at what they bring to a team. Would you still take kobe?

[warriorfan]

whats to believe?

weaker conference? statement of fact. Pau, Love, and Bosh similar all star PFs before they hopped on board? opinion, but not far fetched at all .. btw , i'm even tossing you a bone by including Lamar in that group because I feel he's underrated ... And then Wade and Kyrie are just complete overkill..

Love stats Pre-LeBron - 26/13/2/59% TS

Bosh stats Pre-LeBron - 24/11/2/59% TS

Pau stats Pre-Kobe - 19/8/3/59% TS



Your comparison was being generous to LeBron if anything.

[ArbitraryWater]

Riiiight... yet if it was Wade vs Kobe, youd give Wade shit for declining, not adapting a mid range game n what not (and rightfully so).... funny how weve never heard this side when it came to Wade against Kobe or Dirk... there was no conceivable way Wade could have overcome that damning LeBron, reducing his play! Right?



Jesus :facepalm

warriorfan tried to bump this shit like CNN censoring anti Hillary journalists lol

looks like we will have to bump one of his threads again

[Mr Feeny]

PER is calculated on a single season basis and is not meant to be used cumulatively

One stat-line one season will give a different PER calculation then the same stats in a different season

That is why it is meant for single season comparisons with players with similar playing timesure it does. You can look at the cumulative.




Kobe's only 23rd all time:(

[tpols]

Bro, the teammate argument is just ridiculous coming from a kobe stan. He had the best frontcourt in the league for all of his championships- and that doesn't take anything away because every single champion in nba history had good teammates.

Instead how about you look at who the better player is on the court and look at what they bring to a team. Would you still take kobe?

i assumed this was a GOAT, career type discussion .. I probably would take Lebron slightly over Kobe prime for prime, but there so close, either one could have won more or less than the other given similar circumstances to me.. I think Bron's a better one man army type, a guy who could take a lesser roster farther with his abilities to clog holes, but Kobe is a bigger killer from a halfcourt offensive perspective, and meshes much better with a variety of HOF teammates because his approach is much more quick strike than ball domination. so while bron might be better individually, he reduces great teammates more. Kyrie just so happened to be the perfect fit for him as a clutch iso scorer/shooter/floor spreader.. Love, Wade, and Bosh did not ...

[knicksman]

LeBron has more 1st option rings, idiot.




















This thread is just confirming the only argument is "RANGZ DOE". Not even rings as the best player anymore, either. As if LeBron couldn't have averaged 15 PPG on 36% shooting in the 2000 finals. :oldlol: LeBron's rings get asterisks because you don't like him, but all of Kobe's rings count, despite the fact that the 2002 WCF is infamous for its biased calls? :roll:

Yeah he teamed up with superstars. Its all about respect. Whos rings are more respected? Cheated rings or hard earned rings? But most bran stans are losers so they settle for less

[warriorfan]

sure it does. You can look at the cumulative.




Kobe's only 23rd all time:(

PER is not accurate when used to compare across different years and eras

A statline one season will record a different PER than the exact same statline in a different season

PER is only accurate when used to compare players from the same season with similar minutes played

[Mr Feeny]

PER is not accurate when used to compare across different years and eras

A statline one season will record a different PER than the exact same statline in a different season

PER is only accurate when used to compare players from the same season with similar minutes playeddifferent era?:lol

Lethick and kobrick played in roughly the same era.
And sure you can look at cumulative career PERs.
In fact, I LOVE doing that :banana:

Kobe is only 23rd all time unfortunately :(

[Dictator]

I'm only going to guess that you're a Durant fan who's upset about the negative coverage and perception Durant has gotten since he jumped ship to the team with the best record in nba history. And that's fine

But on no planet are Kobe's rings anywhere near Lebron's rings.
Getting a ring as a role player averaging 15 ppg on 36% in the finals while Shaq gets 38 ppg and 17 rpg is not more valuable than becoming the only man in history to lead both teams in all statistical categories and nearly averaging a 30 point triple double in the finals while putting up a top 5 defensive performance in finals history.

If you can't see that this is stupid, then there's no point in having a discussion.


I dont think you understand why we keep pulling up the collusion. One player could average 50 pts per game but if his team doesn't pull their weight then you're still bound to lose. Ex: Wilt

What Lebron did was eliminate competition. You can't create/join a team that is obviously better than the rest of the competition and then act as if you won the same way as everyone else. You lebron stans have some weird logic. You discredit kobes rings with Shaq yet approve of Lebrons rings with two other franchise players as well as having great role players?

[Mr Feeny]

I dont think you understand why we keep pulling up the collusion. One player could average 50 pts per game but if his team doesn't pull their weight then you're still bound to lose. Ex: Wilt

What Lebron did was eliminate competition. You can't create/join a team that is obviously better than the rest of the competition and then act as if you won the same way as everyone else. You lebron stans have some weird logic. You discredit kobes rings with Shaq yet approve of Lebrons rings with two other franchise players as well as having great role players?

Look at what each did and please tell me you don't think a 15ppg 36% ring matters as much as a 30, 11, 9, 2.3, 2.6 49% ring against a 73 win team.

You want competition? He just single handily beat the best team if all time
Are you serious?

[knicksman]

Honestly, why do people want to succeed? Coz they want to be respected. Simple as that. Money is just secondary. Thats why kobe wants to be the man coz he knows being a 2nd option wont get you respect. But joining superstars is worse. You basically tell the whole world youre a coward and nobody should respect you.

[NBAGOAT]

saw this coming ... you guys dont get credit for Lebron reducing Wade's role and not being a good fit with him. Thats.. a bad thing for Lebron. Same goes for how he reduced Love and Bosh down to nothin over time.. you dont get credit for that lol. while Kobe otoh made Pau better .. his numbers all skyrocket next to Kobe because they were the perfect supremely skilled inside outside duo. you're essentially using the fact that Kobe doesnt reduce his teammates productions against Kobe .. which makes no sense.

Kobe making Pau look better than Wade is an indictment on Bron.. not Kobe.

the counterargument to this is pretty simple. Love and Bosh were 3rd options, how many teams have 3rd options who score 20ppg. They're usually teams where the 1st option and 3rd are similar, not like the Heat or Cavs where the hierarchy is pretty defined. Wade and Bron wasn't optimal and ofc part that is Bron but part of that is also Wade's playstyle and his injuires. It's not all on Bron especially for his 3rd options guys. Odom went from a 16ppg guy to a 11ppg in 2 years because he went from a 2nd to 4th option, that's normal and obviously isn't mostly due to Kobe.

[Smoke117]

:facepalm I hope you don't believe this.

Tpols used to be one of the more sane kobe stans...but this 3rd LeBron championship has driven him over the edge.

[warriorfan]

the counterargument to this is pretty simple. Love and Bosh were 3rd options, how many teams have 3rd options who score 20ppg. They're usually teams where the 1st option and 3rd are similar, not like the Heat or Cavs where the hierarchy is pretty defined. Wade and Bron wasn't optimal and ofc part that is Bron but part of that is also Wade's playstyle and his injuires. It's not all on Bron especially for his 3rd options guys. Odom went from a 16ppg guy to a 11ppg in 2 years because he went from a 2nd to 4th option, that's normal and obviously isn't mostly due to Kobe.

Love and Bosh are as good or better than Pau Gasol

Love and Bosh were LeBron's 3rd options

Pau Gasol was Kobe's 2nd option

[NBAGOAT]

Love and Bosh are as good or better than Pau Gasol

Love and Bosh were LeBron's 3rd options

Pau Gasol was Kobe's 2nd option

Kobe had less help during his title reign, I've said that before. The best team he had to face his 2 championship years were the Celtics, Magic, Suns, and Nuggets. That really doesn't compare to Warriors, Spurs, OKC. Teams like the Pacers, Bulls, and older Celtics are part the "joke East" are comparable to most of those teams.

[knicksman]

Kobe had less help during his title reign, I've said that before. The best team he had to face his 2 championship years were the Celtics, Magic, Suns, and Nuggets. That really doesn't compare to Warriors, Spurs, OKC. Teams like the Pacers, Bulls, and older Celtics are part the "joke East" are comparable to most of those teams.

Spurs were only great coz the league is watered down. But spurs were losing in the first round during nba's peak. Lebron is just not that good. He just won coz of refs

[pauk]

Without prejudice? There is nothing to go by... Lebron has more of every single significant feat (like 3 vs 2 "the man/best player championship runs" & 4 vs 1 MVP)

With prejudice? Sarting with 2 more rings... that they came by a sidekick/Pippen/Havlicek ("THE MAN"/Shaq/Jordan/Russell handing you a ring on a silverplate) way is something thats ignored & hence valued as prominent as any Jordan / Lebron championship run...

[tpols]

Tpols used to be one of the more sane kobe stans...but this 3rd LeBron championship has driven him over the edge.

hey mang, i will still put up a fight for the kobe fam where i can .. and while i can.

[tpols]

Without prejudice? There is nothing to go by... Lebron has more of every single significant feat (like 3 vs 2 "the man/best player championship runs" & 4 vs 1 MVP)

With prejudice? Sarting with 2 more rings... that they came by a sidekick/Pippen/Havlicek ("THE MAN"/Shaq/Jordan/Russell handing you a ring on a silverplate) way is something thats ignored & hence valued as prominent as any Jordan / Lebron championship run...


see this above is lack of logic .. "the man" doesnt mean anything.. it's a narrative.. there have been a bunch of "the man" runs that were worse than Kobe's 29/7/6 performance in the 2001 playoffs .. spurs ring a few years ago, boston's ring few years before that, detroits ring few years before that.. and the list can go on and on.. all that matters is what your impact was on the way to titles.. was it role player? all star? or superstar? Those are the buckets. You're living in a fairytale, logic less world by basing your opinion around regular season awards and "the man" championships.. I'm sure kobe wouldve rather had Pau/Sheed/Ben Wallace rather than Shaq, won even more, and then got "the man" credit while putting up the same productions he did with shaq... but then again, I dont think players think like that, at all.. just dumb fans.


and this is coming from someonewho knows bron will be ahead of kobe when its all said and done.. still have to call out your poor logic though.

[pauk]

More rings. Didn't need to collude with two other top 10 players in the league twice to win rings.

You mean 2 more of his 3 all sidekick/Pippen/Havlicek rings? If Shaq didnt "collude" his arse to Lakers Kobe wouldnt even have those... he would be left with only what truly is HIS WORK which is 2 "the man" championship runs (fmvp/best player in his team 24-7) & 1 mvp... thats not enough to try belittle Lebron, im sorry...

Stop it already.... Yes you can love Kobe & hate Lebron, maybe you simply dont like his gamestyle, say so, perfectly fine, its an acquired taste, completely normal, but dont go around letting such an agenda blind your basketball judgement... Lebron has been greater, with the context of this final championship run its officially settled... that doesnt mean you have to start liking Lebron / disliking Kobe & his game... it just means you have to accept reality when it comes to Lebron vs Kobe all-time...

You can love Kobe WITHOUT the delusion of him being better than Lebron (or Jordan, Kareem, Magic, Bird etc. all-time).... its OK where Kobe is at, top 10 i would say but not above Lebron, teach yourself to accept that its OK...

PS: This goes for you Tpols aswell, i dont know why Kobe fans get upset with the sidekick thing anyways, like if its some damn lie? Look at Kobe's 1st Finals/championship, he was literally not needed... its one of such championship runs YOU use to try act like its something similar and/or better than a championship of such insane magnitude Lebron just did very recently.... Kobe has only 2 such championship runs & neither were as prominent as Lebrons 3... and he still has 3 more mvps aswell, but lets ignore that...

[ArbitraryWater]

Riiiight... yet if it was Wade vs Kobe, youd give Wade shit for declining, not adapting a mid range game n what not (and rightfully so).... funny how weve never heard this side when it came to Wade against Kobe or Dirk... there was no conceivable way Wade could have overcome that damning LeBron, reducing his play! Right?



Jesus :facepalm

tpols never responded to his hypocrisy

[34-24 Footwork]

Except that on the highest stage, in the finals, he's a 40%fg shooter and a 25% finals scorer:(

Lol @ the finals being the "biggest stage" when the more quality teams have come from the western conference since 2000.

[34-24 Footwork]

If youve watched Basketball for at least 10 years, you'd know that kobe is the better basketball player.

If you havent, you'd go with Lebron.

The analysts/legend change their minds daily.

The players that are currently in the league have spoken about Kobe this a looooong time ago, as well.

[RRR3]

Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Ron Artest, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson all just started watching basketball guys.

[Bankaii]

There is no argument for Kobe.
The only ones even entertaining that crap are the same dumb Kobetards.

[34-24 Footwork]

Oscar Robertson, Isiah Thomas, Jerry West, Scottie Pippen, Ron Artest, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson all just started watching basketball guys.

Lol @ not mentioning Michael Jordan himself. Doesn't fit your narrative, huh?

How you feel about Jordan saying that kobe should be the ONLY name that compares to his?

And you do realize that Shaq and Magic have Kobe as the GOAT Laker?

Does that make you angry?

Stay mad, doe.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol Not at all lil nikka
Streets love ya boy ai and kb but dat nikka bron is on a diff universe fareal

Lol. Wtf is this shit??

[RRR3]

Lol @ not mentioning Michael Jordan himself. Doesn't fit your narrative, huh?

How you feel about Jordan saying that kobe should be the ONLY name that compares to his?

And you do realize that Shaq and Magic have Kobe as the GOAT Laker?

Does that make you angry?

Stay mad, doe.
I think it's obvious why I didn't mention Jordan. Yeah, it doesn't fit my narrative. We're all pushing our own narratives here, at least I am backing my narrative up with shit. What are you doing? "Boo-boo-boo-buh-buh-buh-but Kobe is just better! :cry: LeChoke! :cry:"

[34-24 Footwork]

Michael Jordan himself says that Kobe Bryant is the ONLY NAME that deserves to be in the same sentence as himself.

What does MJ know, anyway?

That bum.

[RRR3]

Michael Jordan himself says that Kobe Bryant is the ONLY NAME that deserves to be in the same sentence as himself.

What does MJ know, anyway?

That bum.
MJ knows a lot, I'm sure. But both you and I are using logically fallacious arguments to be quite honest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

[RRR3]

Also, if you think Kobe is the only name that deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence you're insane. Implying Kobe is the 2nd best ever :roll:

[34-24 Footwork]

MJ knows a lot, I'm sure. But both you and I are using logically fallacious arguments to be quite honest. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

Bet it sucks to hate Kobe. Whether on the forums, media or whatever....

...knowing that MJ himself acknowledges Kobe to be neck and neck with him.

That's gotta hurt a little. Makes discrediting Kobe that much more difficult :lol :lol

[RRR3]

I don't hate Kobe. I hate his idiotic fans.


It's also not hard at all to argue LeBron is better than Kobe. He has significantly better stats. He's better at most facets of the game. He just had a better finals than anything Kobe ever did against a 73 win team. He has 4 MVPS to Kobe's 1. He's won more as the best player. etc etc



Saying LeBron is better isn't "discrediting Kobe" it's just not being a delusional moron

[34-24 Footwork]

Also, if you think Kobe is the only name that deserves to be mentioned in the same sentence you're insane. Implying Kobe is the 2nd best ever :roll:

MJ said it. Not me. Don't be so overly emotionally invested in such things. It won't do you any good since Kobe has MJ himself giving him such praise.

[34-24 Footwork]

MJ is the GOAT.

MJ stated that Kobe is the only player deserving to be in the same sentence as him.

I mean. That's painful, bro. All the effort on the forums. Lol. Only for the worldly renowned GOAT bball player to say almost the exact opposite of what you're spewing.

Yikes.

[RRR3]

You're using MJ saying it to imply it's true, which is a logical fallacy. You don't get to pick and choose what NBA players you listen to, and neither do I to be fair. This is honestly a stupid way to rank players. Bill Walton compared Boris freakin' Diaw to Beethoven for ****'s sake.

[34-24 Footwork]

I don't hate Kobe. I hate his idiotic fans.


It's also not hard at all to argue LeBron is better than Kobe. He has significantly better stats. He's better at most facets of the game. He just had a better finals than anything Kobe ever did against a 73 win team. He has 4 MVPS to Kobe's 1. He's won more as the best player. etc etc



Saying LeBron is better isn't "discrediting Kobe" it's just not being a delusional moron

If he's this much better than Kobe, why are you still talking about Kobe? Lol.

Not strong enough in your convictions?

[RRR3]

He's not "much" better than Kobe. He's clearly better than Kobe, but it's not by a whole lot once you're this good tbqh. It's like saying Slash is a better guitarist than Randy Rhoads.

[34-24 Footwork]

You're using MJ saying it to imply it's true, which is a logical fallacy. You don't get to pick and choose what NBA players you listen to, and neither do I to be fair. This is honestly a stupid way to rank players. Bill Walton compared Boris freakin' Diaw to Beethoven for ****'s sake.

You used Isaiah Thomas and Pippen.

Pretty sure they don't have any bias at all.

Magic Johnson, Jerry West and Shaq said Kobe is the GOAT Laker and you spend hours on this forum trying to refute that. Lol.

Now the GOAT blesses off on Kobe and we're supposed to sweep that under the rug, eh? Lmao.

[NBAGOAT]

You're using MJ saying it to imply it's true, which is a logical fallacy. You don't get to pick and choose what NBA players you listen to, and neither do I to be fair. This is honestly a stupid way to rank players. Bill Walton compared Boris freakin' Diaw to Beethoven for ****'s sake.

:lol Walton is gold.

[RRR3]

You used Isaiah Thomas and Pippen.

Pretty sure they don't have any bias at all.

Magic Johnson, Jerry West and Shaq said Kobe is the GOAT Laker and you spend hours on this forum trying to refute that. Lol.

Now the GOAT blesses off on Kobe and we're supposed to sweep that under the rug, eh? Lmao.
When have I spent hours trying to refute Kobe as the GOAT laker? :wtf:

Stop making things up.


I don't think he's the GOAT Laker, but I don't generally get involved in that discussion so wtf are you talking about



You're right that my using quotes is just as dumb as your argument. I'll give you that one. Doesn't mean you're not making stupid arguments. Just means both of us are.

The thing is, I can make intelligent arguments for LeBron being better. I'm not sure you can make intelligent arguments for Kobe being better.

[Smoke117]

MJ is the GOAT.

MJ stated that Kobe is the only player deserving to be in the same sentence as him.

I mean. That's painful, bro. All the effort on the forums. Lol. Only for the worldly renowned GOAT bball player to say almost the exact opposite of what you're spewing.

Yikes.

Oh...you mean the same MJ who drafted Kwame Brown? His evaluation of players is ****ing garbage. :oldlol:

[34-24 Footwork]

When have I spent hours trying to refute Kobe as the GOAT laker? :wtf:

Stop making things up.


I don't think he's the GOAT Laker, but I don't generally get involved in that discussion so wtf are you talking about



You're right that my using quotes is just as dumb as your argument. I'll give you that one. Doesn't mean you're not making stupid arguments. Just means both of us are.

The thing is, I can make intelligent arguments for LeBron being better. I'm not sure you can make intelligent arguments for Kobe being better.

People have already tried in this thread. You just ignore it. Lol.

[34-24 Footwork]

Oh...you mean the same MJ who drafted Kwame Brown? His evaluation of players is ****ing garbage. :oldlol:

Ahhh. A foot in the door to discredit MJ opinion on Kobe.

Clever. But extremely simplistic.

[RRR3]

People have already tried in this thread. You just ignore it. Lol.
No, I acknowledged the two posters who made rational arguments for Kobe. Fkari and NBAGOAT. But both of them I believe have LeBron higher anyways. But they had the right idea. I don't see why you guys can't at least TRY harder. Talk about how Kobe's superior midrange shooting gives him an advantage and is more valuable. Talk about how he doesn't need as much spacing or something. Just stop using "RANGZ" or "MJ SAID KOBE WUZ BEDDA". Jesus.

[greatest-ever]

People bring up retarded narratives about teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but ignore that Wade and Bosh didn't play all that well when they won rings especially in 2013. Lebron is better period, anyone still arguing Kobe i don't take seriously.

[RRR3]

People bring up retarded narratives about teaming up with Wade and Bosh, but ignore that Wade and Bosh didn't play all that well when they won rings especially in 2013. Lebron is better period, anyone still arguing Kobe i don't take seriously.
To be fair, LeBron cost Wade a ring in 2011.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol dis,nikka 3224feetwork getting all emo n workd up behind his ipad
Calm down cuh
We can tell ur mad by da amount of tymes u keep on spewing da same mj quotes
Prozac n chill,dog it's just s hoops lol

Lol. I'm mad but yall the ones making the same threads crying your hearts out to this forum trying to convince us that Lebron is better than a 37 year old retired basketball player.

Whose really upset? :lol

[Smoke117]

Lol. I'm mad but yall the ones making the same threads crying your hearts out to this forum trying to convince us that Lebron is better than a 37 year old retired basketball player.

Whose really upset? :lol

Uh.. exactly who else is there to convince that Lebron is greater all time? Everybody besides you dumb ass kobe stans already agrees Lebron is better. It's already in the books.

[RRR3]

Uh...who exactly who else is there to convince that Lebron is greater all time? Everybody besides you dumb ass kobe stans already agrees Lebron is better. It's already in the books.
Some Kobe fans admit it. Doranku, Jacks3, ImKobe IIRC

[Nilocon165]

Nikka ain nobody convincing peeps abt nuthin from wut i see
Im just a bystandard in da xfire taking shells ya heard me? Lol
But dem bron stans been takin heat doe for years from dem Kobe be fans abt rings for so long, now dat nikka holdin weight on his fingers so dem bron fans got the ball in der court now.. Dats all i see
That's it.

You're my new favorite poster.

[stalkerforlife]

Easy...

July 8th, 2010, and July 11th, 2014.

The NBA has done everything they could to ensure Bran was a star, including allowing an illegal brand of basketball and cowardly colluding.

The NBA did everything they could to stop Kobe from being the face of the league, but he was too damn good to be denied.

Kobe is easily better and it isn't as close as most make it out to be.

[Young X]

To be honest he doesn't really have that much of an argument anymore.

Whether it's regular seasons, playoff runs, finals series, important "legacy games" (I hate saying that because it sounds stupid) - James has just outmatched him.

And now he's even starting to be just as impressive with his longevity. He's been a superstar for 12+ seasons now (!).

[34-24 Footwork]

That's it.

You're my new favorite poster.

:lol :lol

Your trolling has no limits

[stalkerforlife]

Bran's chance of being better than Kobe ended on July 8th, 2010, and was beaten like a dead horse on July 11th, 2014.

And everyone knows it.

And that's exactly why these threads keep getting made.

[Nilocon165]

Das wassup homie lol what team u rep cuh?
Cavs.

From Cbus.

[Smoke117]

To be honest he doesn't really have that much of an argument anymore.

Whether it's regular seasons, playoff runs, finals series, important "legacy games" (I hate saying that because it sounds stupid) - James has just outmatched him.

And now he's even starting to be just as impressive with his longevity. He's been a superstar for 12+ seasons now (!).

I think that's what upsets them the most...that Lebron is only 31 and already greater. He has plenty of time to bury Kobe deeper and deeper.

[tpols]

PS: This goes for you Tpols aswell, i dont know why Kobe fans get upset with the sidekick thing anyways, like if its some damn lie? Look at Kobe's 1st Finals/championship, he was literally not needed... its one of such championship runs YOU use to try act like its something similar and/or better than a championship of such insane magnitude Lebron just did very recently.... Kobe has only 2 such championship runs & neither were as prominent as Lebrons 3... and he still has 3 more mvps aswell, but lets ignore that...


pauk, this is where you're exposing your lack of bball knowledge.. for bolded red

... you say kobe "only had 2 such runs" refering to 2009 and 2010 titles obviously, but what you dont realize is that 2001 Kobe was > 2010 Kobe and its not even debateable impact wise.. i know you bron kiddies love your advanced stats, and kobe had more winshares than peak shaq in that year, and much, much much more able defensively than 2010 Kobe (who was injured for bulk of the playoffs) .. So you discount 2001 as a sidekick title, yet prop a "the man" title that Kobe was worse in?

Do you get how this is silly .. ? please tell me you do..


i dont count kobe's first ring in a comparison with top 10 GOATs anyways.. it was merely an all star ring. Like a ring kareem or duncan got in old age.. i'm looking for superstar titles first and foremost and Kobe has 4.. you can look at all star runs after sort of how you'd look at gold, silver, bronze.. just as a tiebreaker.



tpols never responded to his hypocrisy


what do you want me to say? you realize pau broke down just as quick as wade did right? He was done in his fourth year just like wade .. and please .. dont break my balls about 13 wade not being as good as 08 or 09 pau.. just dont do it, it will force me to have to bring in 11 Wade and obliterate pau for good.


overall though.. Kobe elevating Pau's game so that it is better than Lebron reducing Wade's is a refelection of kobe and bron's ability to co exist with different stars more than anything else.

[CAstill]

I'm tired of this bullshitting around Kobe's first title. You lebron stans want to discount it because of the stats in the finals instead of the overall picture. There is no first title without Kobe. To win a ring you have to look at the production of the whole playoffs. It sure as hell wasn't Shaq beating those Blazers. Last time I checked it was Kobe saving the day. Then when the Lakers got to the finals with a mismatch to exploit, you want Kobe to put up crazy numbers instead of what phil schemed to do? Which was punish the post. Shaq gets fouled out and Kobe saves the day with super clutch finals play while being injured but Kobe sucks in the finals because he didn't put up insane numbers? NO! Kobe wasn't a side kick. He was a first option on a team with 2 of them. So he bought into the system and produced something Lebron has never done, a 3peat.

[Real14]

I'm tired of this bullshitting around Kobe's first title. You lebron stans want to discount it because of the stats in the finals instead of the overall picture. There is no first title without Kobe. To win a ring you have to look at the production of the whole playoffs. It sure as hell wasn't Shaq beating those Blazers. Last time I checked it was Kobe saving the day. Then when the Lakers got to the finals with a mismatch to exploit, you want Kobe to put up crazy numbers instead of what phil schemed to do? Which was punish the post. Shaq gets fouled out and Kobe saves the day with super clutch finals play while being injured but Kobe sucks in the finals because he didn't put up insane numbers? NO! Kobe wasn't a side kick. He was a first option on a team with 2 of them. So he bought into the system and produced something Lebron has never done, a 3peat.
Ether:applause:

[eliteballer]

Kobe got injured in the middle of the 2000 Finals, even had to sit out a game.

Now.....put him on a bunch of super teams in the East at his peak and he's probably got accolades right up there with Kareem.

It's laughable that some of these clowns think playing on super teams in the East is some accomplishment.

Dude has some of the biggest chokejobs ever in 2011, 2014, 2009.

We all saw it this year. Kyrie was the player the Warriors couldnt control, not Lebron.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe got injured in the middle of the 2000 Finals, even had to sit out a game.

Now.....put him on a bunch of super teams in the East at his peak and he's probably got accolades right up there with Kareem.

It's laughable that some of these clowns think playing on super teams in the East is some accomplishment.

Dude has some of the biggest chokejobs ever in 2011, 2014, 2009.

Yes, averaging 39/8/8 and hitting a walk off 3 pointer is definitely one of the biggest chokejobs ever. Definitely worse than blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finsls or shooting 6/24 in Game 7

[red1]

Kobe got injured in the middle of the 2000 Finals, even had to sit out a game.

Now.....put him on a bunch of super teams in the East at his peak and he's probably got accolades right up there with Kareem.

It's laughable that some of these clowns think playing on super teams in the East is some accomplishment.

Dude has some of the biggest chokejobs ever in 2011, 2014, 2009.

We all saw it this year. Kyrie was the player the Warriors couldnt control, not Lebron.
:lol thanks for the laugh

[eliteballer]

Yes, averaging 39/8/8 and hitting a walk off 3 pointer is definitely one of the biggest chokejobs ever. Definitely worse than blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finsls or shooting 6/24 in Game 7

Putting up empty numbers while Hedo and Shard were running wild...

Kobe was playing on a bad knee in the 2010 finals...he had no explosion or lift.

Why don't you check LeBron's FG% in game 7 this year, 9-24 vs a team missing it's starting center and best perimeter defender..

We've all seen LeBron look repeatedly ineffective against teams with solid defensive bigmen

[red1]

Yes, averaging 39/8/8 and hitting a walk off 3 pointer is definitely one of the biggest chokejobs ever. Definitely worse than blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finsls or shooting 6/24 in Game 7
:oldlol: The guy has 2009 and 2014 listed as massive chokes. You are dealing with a bonafide retard.

[Nilocon165]

https://veuwer.com/i/32oi.gif
What are you trying to say?

[Real14]

:oldlol: The guy has 2009 and 2014 listed as massive chokes. You are dealing with a bonafide retard.
Watch the 2009 ecf, 2014 finals and get back to us. He is definitely right with the statements he made.

[NBAGOAT]

Putting up empty numbers while Hedo and Shard were running wild...

Kobe was playing on a bad knee in the 2010 finals...he had no explosion or lift.

Why don't you check LeBron's FG% in game 7 this year, 9-24 vs a team missing it's starting center and best perimeter defender..

We've all seen LeBron look repeatedly ineffective against teams with solid defensive bigmen

you can't be serious listing 09, at least use 2010 as an example :facepalm. Anyway those stats weren't empty at all, 2 of the losses in the series Lebron had a positive +/- which means it was the bench and other guys who gave up the lead.

[red1]

Watch the 2009 ecf, 2014 finals and get back to us. He is definitely right with the statements he made.
No. Just no.

[CAstill]

Yes, averaging 39/8/8 and hitting a walk off 3 pointer is definitely one of the biggest chokejobs ever. Definitely worse than blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finsls or shooting 6/24 in Game 7

No excuse for the 08 finals but don't ever compare a loss to a win. 6/24 in a game 7 finals that was a low scoring slugfest with ten points in the fourth., good D, 15 rebounds and the game winning assist to put the Lakers out of reach. Won the fmvp. Won the game. Was the only player that could hit a freethrow, in a game where every possession down the stretch was a foul and a game of position. He set the tempo. You could say he could of played better but he didn't choke. He won the game, how do you choke a win? You cant. He killed it lol. He was injured and still dominated the playoffs. He put on a clinic in wcf. There is no losing involved for Kobe. 6/24 isn't a choke lol. It's a ring ,bitch!

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe got injured in the middle of the 2000 Finals, even had to sit out a game.

Now.....put him on a bunch of super teams in the East at his peak and he's probably got accolades right up there with Kareem.

It's laughable that some of these clowns think playing on super teams in the East is some accomplishment.

Dude has some of the biggest chokejobs ever in 2011, 2014, 2009.

We all saw it this year. Kyrie was the player the Warriors couldnt control, not Lebron.Is this moron for real?
Did I just see 2009 and 2014 on there?

[Mr Feeny]

No excuse for the 08 finals but don't ever compare a loss to a win. 6/24 in a game 7 finals that was a low scoring slugfest with ten points in the fourth., good D, 15 rebounds and the game winning assist to put the Lakers out of reach. Won the fmvp. Won the game. Was the only player that could hit a freethrow, in a game where every possession down the stretch was a foul and a game of position. He set the tempo. You could say he could of played better but he didn't choke. He won the game, how do you choke a win? You cant. He killed it lol. He was injured and still dominated the playoffs. He put on a clinic in wcf. There is no losing involved for Kobe. 6/24 isn't a choke lol. It's a ring ,bitch!6/24 is most certainly a choke. Good thing he had Gasol and Artest there to bail him out n the biggest game of the season.
Kobe is a 39% game 7 scorer. He chokes when the going gets tough.

[CAstill]

6/24 is most certainly a choke. Good thing he had Gasol and Artest there to bail him out n the biggest game of the season.
Kobe is a 39% game 7 scorer. He chokes when the going gets tough.

Nope, he scored the most in the 4th, was the only player who could hit a freethrow, gave out the assist to Artest 3 plus the original dagger. He got 15 rebounds as well. No choke it's a win.

[Inferno]

At this point I have to go with LeBron. Even last year I was saying its a wash, but Bron was amazing this year in the Finals. All Kobe has over Bron are 2 rings, but Bron's career isn't over yet. Bron has him beat in MVPs, FMVPs, regular season stats, and Finals stats (by a fair margin, he ****ing averaged like 30/11/9 in this year's).

LeBron is the better player. Kobe may still have the better resume, but we'll see how they stack up when LeBron retires (and god knows when that will be, he's a machine).

With that said, the morons who bash on Kobe and act like he's some sort of scrub compared to Bron are retarded. Both are top 10 players of all time, it's just that Bron will end up top 5. I have nothing but respect for Kobe, and there's no shame in LeBron being a better player than him.

Can someone post Kobe and LeBron's career Finals averages? Both have played in 7 Finals so it'll be a pretty fair comparison.

[HOoopCityJones]

At this point I have to go with LeBron. Even last year I was saying its a wash, but Bron was amazing this year in the Finals. All Kobe has over Bron are 2 rings, but Bron's career isn't over yet. Bron has him beat in MVPs, FMVPs, regular season stats, and Finals stats (by a fair margin, he ****ing averaged like 30/11/9 in this year's).

LeBron is the better player. Kobe may still have the better resume, but we'll see how they stack up when LeBron retires (and god knows when that will be, he's a machine).

With that said, the morons who bash on Kobe and act like he's some sort of scrub compared to Bron are retarded. Both are top 10 players of all time, it's just that Bron will end up top 5. I have nothing but respect for Kobe, and there's no shame in LeBron being a better player than him.

Can someone post Kobe and LeBron's career Finals averages? Both have played in 7 Finals so it'll be a pretty fair comparison.


The same ol tired ass argument aside...This is the only thing I don't get , people have been putting LBJ ahead of guys based off what he might do in the future since he came out of high school. Now you telling me it's finally a done deal between he and Kobe after these Finals in particular when half the guys in here saying Lebron is definitely better now were saying he was already Top 5 after his second ring?

Makes the entire argument a joke

[raprap]

This isn't an argument anymore. LeBron has cemented himself as a top 5 goat while Kobe is fringe top 10.

[brownmamba00]

lol@top 5

if he's top 5 right now with 3 cookies...does he become the GOAT when he wins another one?:oldlol:

if he defends his Cleveland ring (which holds a lot of weight) I'd def put him over guys like Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, etc.

Don't get me wrong now, they're all in the same class but it's a wash man for now.

[ArbitraryWater]

No excuse for the 08 finals but don't ever compare a loss to a win. 6/24 in a game 7 finals that was a low scoring slugfest with ten points in the fourth., good D, 15 rebounds and the game winning assist to put the Lakers out of reach. Won the fmvp. Won the game. Was the only player that could hit a freethrow, in a game where every possession down the stretch was a foul and a game of position. He set the tempo. You could say he could of played better but he didn't choke. He won the game, how do you choke a win? You cant. He killed it lol. He was injured and still dominated the playoffs. He put on a clinic in wcf. There is no losing involved for Kobe. 6/24 isn't a choke lol. It's a ring ,bitch!

the fact the game was low scoring isnt an excuse lol.... dude, "game winnign assist" ? Bwahahaha... really? Because he was caught in his dribble, passed it sideways to Artest, and immediately wanted it back?

Some of you have just lost touch with reality :lol

[brownmamba00]

the fact the game was low scoring isnt an excuse lol.... dude, "game winnign assist" ? Bwahahaha... really? Because he was caught in his dribble, passed it sideways to Artest, and immediately wanted it back?

Some of you have just lost touch with reality :lol
didn't you say you never watched the NBA pre 2011? What makes you an expert on Kobe's career?:confusedshrug:

[pauk]

lol@top 5

if he's top 5 right now with 3 cookies...does he become the GOAT when he wins another one?:oldlol:

if he defends his Cleveland ring (which holds a lot of weight) I'd def put him over guys like Kobe, Duncan, Magic, Bird, Shaq, etc.

Don't get me wrong now, they're all in the same class but it's a wash man for now.

Magic & Duncan are the only ones you can rationally argue & place above Lebron (Magic has the best case over Lebron, compared to Duncan).... Shaq less... Bird less... and Kobe the least case...

If cookies is your criteria then the rankings change dramatically all-time... one which places Russell at #1 with the biggest gap in sports history... im cool with ANY criteria some people may go after, i just dont like contradictions (which happens because you know your logic is stupid, its just agenda speaking)... I mean if you are ranking based on rings, then do so, strictly, be true to your logic... Place Russell #1 and John Havlicek at #2... maybe even #1 since he is the GOAT when it comes to your own created stat that measures epic greatness, namely the "X of X in Finals" stat, he is 8/8.... the guy used to average near triple doubles, up to 29-9-8 & was one of the best perimeter defenders ever, has only 1 less fmvp/mvp than Kobe... so you cant act like he was Robert Horry or something...

[SwayDizzle]

it is almost statistically impossible for lebron to surpass kobe on the all time list but there is a chance. lebron is currently in the #10 spot after just cracking the top 10 this year and surpassing Hakeem. CONGRATS bron! kobe is in the #5 spot and i'll understand if you put him in the #6 spot if you are a Spurs fan. for bron to be higher ranked than kobe, he would have to beat out Bird, Magic, Shaq and Duncan. Good luck with that bron. bron will have to win two more titles at least.

[Mr Feeny]

Nope, he scored the most in the 4th, was the only player who could hit a freethrow, gave out the assist to Artest 3 plus the original dagger. He got 15 rebounds as well. No choke it's a win.He took 24 shots.
He shot 25%. He was abysmal. They won in spite of him because Gasol was there to clean up his bricks.

That title doesn't do anything for his legacy. If anything, that finish is a negative and hurts him all time.

[Mr Feeny]

I would love to remind everyone that Kobe is 23rd all time in PER :lol

[Mr Feeny]

I would also love to remind everyone that Kobe failed to shoot 47% in any of his 20 seasons of basketball and that he didn't even shoot 43% after 2013.
:lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

There's no longer an argument. Bron comfortably solidified his position as a top 5 player this past finals (others claim top 3) and leapfrogged Bean in the process - a worse playoff and finals performer by every measure save for TEAM success.

Rings? Well, If LeBron played with Shaq or ANYBODY of that caliber during his prime, you'd have to think 'GOAT' talks would be strong right now.

[Mr Feeny]

There's no longer an argument. Bron comfortably solidified his position as a top 5 player this past finals (others claim top 3) and leapfrogged Bean in the process - a worse playoff and finals performer by every measure save for TEAM success.

Rings? Well, If LeBron played with Shaq or ANYBODY of that caliber during his prime, you almost gotta wonder if dude would be having GOAT talks right now.

Ooooh my daymm. I never thought I'd see the day kuniva_dAMiGhTy types this?:biggums: hell has frozen over:lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Ooooh my daymm. I never thought I'd see the day kuniva_dAMiGhTy types this?:biggums: hell has frozen over:lol

I don't root nor really even like LeBron, but this past finals was GOAT-esque. As a basketball fan...I just don't see how you can deny that. :confusedshrug:

Personally I have him top 3-5, and with another ring assuming he plays ELITE basketball? His only obstacle in life will be catching 'His Airness'.

[ArbitraryWater]

didn't you say you never watched the NBA pre 2011? What makes you an expert on Kobe's career?:confusedshrug:

ounce of honesty


There's no longer an argument. Bron comfortably solidified his position as a top 5 player this past finals (others claim top 3) and leapfrogged Bean in the process - a worse playoff and finals performer by every measure save for TEAM success.

Rings? Well, If LeBron played with Shaq or ANYBODY of that caliber during his prime, you'd have to think 'GOAT' talks would be strong right now.

:applause:

[TheOne]

Lebron won't pass Kobe unless he scores 60+ pts in his last game. Kobe fam stay winning!

[Hey Yo]

I'm tired of this bullshitting around Kobe's first title. You lebron stans want to discount it because of the stats in the finals instead of the overall picture. There is no first title without Kobe. To win a ring you have to look at the production of the whole playoffs. It sure as hell wasn't Shaq beating those Blazers. Last time I checked it was Kobe saving the day. Then when the Lakers got to the finals with a mismatch to exploit, you want Kobe to put up crazy numbers instead of what phil schemed to do? Which was punish the post. Shaq gets fouled out and Kobe saves the day with super clutch finals play while being injured but Kobe sucks in the finals because he didn't put up insane numbers? NO! Kobe wasn't a side kick. He was a first option on a team with 2 of them. So he bought into the system and produced something Lebron has never done, a 3peat.
Time to dissect this Kobe Kid meltdown.

So why is LeBron's Finals performances and record always brought up by haters? The majority of the trolling is about his Finals record. Nobody cares what he did before he got there. James' stans certainly don't say "but look what he did before the Finals" Like Kobe Kids do. The Finals is what you're remembered for and Kobe's remembered for some really shitty Finals performances.


Complete myth (just like Magic playing C all game) that Kobe saved the game. "The Lakers were leading 115-112 when Shaq was whistled for his sixth foul with 2:33 left in overtime." The were leading and Shaq had already done his damage. LA scored 5 more points after Shaq fouled out.


This video here, well after Shaq was gone, shows Kobe saying "I was his sidekick" aka Robin

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

[Big164]

http://fullcourtstars.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/kobe-bryant-muse-showtime-documentary-01.jpg

[j3lademaster]

He's not. Kobe is definitely more skilled in my opinion, but in terms of pure individual impact Lebron is easily top 3 all time.

Should honestly just drop this comparison. Only people who think Kobe > Lebron at this point are Lebron haters/ Kobe stans, and they already have their minds made up. Just about everyone else has Lebron ahead.

[SouBeachTalents]

Lebron won't pass Kobe unless he scores 60+ pts in his last game. Kobe fam stay winning!

This is a perfect example of Kobe stan logic

[Nilocon165]

5 Rangz iz more than 3!!!! Factz only Kobe haterz!!!!!!

[SouBeachTalents]

it is almost statistically impossible for lebron to surpass kobe on the all time list but there is a chance. lebron is currently in the #10 spot after just cracking the top 10 this year and surpassing Hakeem. CONGRATS bron! kobe is in the #5 spot and i'll understand if you put him in the #6 spot if you are a Spurs fan. for bron to be higher ranked than kobe, he would have to beat out Bird, Magic, Shaq and Duncan. Good luck with that bron. bron will have to win two more titles at least.

Lol, LeBron has as many MVP's/FMVP's as anybody you listed. He'd have an argument over every player you listed

[greatest-ever]

Lebron could win 7 rings and the Kobe stans would still find some bullshit way to argue for Kobe.

[red1]

Lebron could win 7 rings and the Kobe stans would still find some bullshit way to argue for Kobe.
collude!! rigged!! wade and bosh!!

[Doranku]

Time to dissect this Kobe Kid meltdown.

So why is LeBron's Finals performances and record always brought up by haters? The majority of the trolling is about his Finals record. Nobody cares what he did before he got there. James' stans certainly don't say "but look what he did before the Finals" Like Kobe Kids do. The Finals is what you're remembered for and Kobe's remembered for some really shitty Finals performances.


Complete myth (just like Magic playing C all game) that Kobe saved the game. "The Lakers were leading 115-112 when Shaq was whistled for his sixth foul with 2:33 left in overtime." The were leading and Shaq had already done his damage. LA scored 5 more points after Shaq fouled out.


This video here, well after Shaq was gone, shows Kobe saying "I was his sidekick" aka Robin

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

Why do you make shit up? The score was 112-109 when Shaq fouled out. Kobe himself scored 6 points of the last 8 points the Lakers would score with Shaq out, all while the Lakers were clinging to a 1 point lead.

He completely saved the game. You're a moron if you think otherwise.

[Fudge]

There is no phucking argument.

That argument was dead when LeBron won his first championship.

[Hey Yo]

Why do you make shit up? The score was 112-109 when Shaq fouled out. Kobe himself scored 6 points of the last 8 points the Lakers would score with Shaq out, all while the Lakers were clinging to a 1 point lead.

He completely saved the game. You're a moron if you think otherwise.
link??

Cause I have one for what I posted above.

[Doranku]

link??

Cause I have one for what I posted above.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNFvYFjeyLM

[Hey Yo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNFvYFjeyLM
http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19992000.html

The Lakers were leading 115-112 when Shaq was whistled for his sixth foul with 2:33 left in overtime.

They have the score wrong, but LA still had a 3pt lead when Shaq left. What Kobe did was far from "super clutch Finals play" like other dude suggested.

A couple open jumpers and a put back is pretty pedestrian.

[feyki]

There is no phucking argument.

That argument was dead when LeBron won his first championship.

27 years old Lebron had better career than a top 10 goat .

Same logic going on todays , 30 years old Lebron is top 3 . 3 ring put him second best . And then ?

[Doranku]

http://www.nba.com/history/finals/19992000.html

The Lakers were leading 115-112 when Shaq was whistled for his sixth foul with 2:33 left in overtime.

They have the score wrong, but LA still had a 3pt lead when Shaq left. What Kobe did was far from "super clutch Finals play" like other dude suggested.

A couple open jumpers and a put back is pretty pedestrian.
:oldlol: There's just no point in trying to reason with LeBron stans.

[BallsOut]

More rings. Doesn't flop that much. Didn't need to collude with two other top 10 players in the league twice to win rings.

/Thread

Lebron has never won rings without 2 superstar players in their primes. Kobe proved he can win the ring with just 1 other superstar.

[3ball]

Kobe is a more reliable midrange scorer vs tough defenses. He is in general a better scorer vs elite defenses. But Lebron has him beat in every other category.


The only area of scoring where Lebron is considered GREAT is the primary ballhandler role.

Otoh, Kobe was great at most aspects of scoring - his more flexible style fit in with teammates better and fostered superior teamwork.. You never heard of Kobe cratering his big man's stats or turning guys into spot-up shooters.

There's no question - a PRIME, chomping-at-the-bit Kobe would destroy Lebron.. It's too bad that Lebron's #1 seeds lost as the favorite in 2009 and 2010, since it would've been fun to see him lose with top teams to Kobe, just like he does to everyone else (Dirk, Duncan, Curry, Howard, KG)..

Lebron freezes up when he encounters someone that can go blow-for-blow with him and won't quit - we saw him cower against Dirk, and Kobe would do the same thing to him, only more so.. Btw, if Kobe ever teamed up with 2 other top 10 players like Lebron did, he would never lose.

[RRR3]

Here's why LeBron is better...


Comparing Their Various Abilities
LeBron is a better passer, more efficient at scoring, rebounder, defender, athlete, slasher, fast break player, pick and roll player, has a higher BBall IQ, and is much more versatile.

Kobe is a better isolation scorer, midrange and ft shooter, and has better footwork.

They're both great scorers and both mediocre 3Pt shooters who have been both good and bad at the 3 at various times in their careers.


LeBron destroys Kobe in stats. I would post them, but what's the point?

LeBron has been putting up at least 25/6/6 for 12 years. Kobe NEVER did that. (he basically did it in 2004-05 to be fair). I'm aware this is arbitrary, FYI Kobe stans.


LeBron already has as many 25+ PPG seasons as Kobe.

LeBron has 4 MVPS. Kobe has 1.


LeBron has 3 FMVPS. Kobe has 2.


LeBron has 5 40+ point games in the finals. In fact, he had more 40 point games combined in games 5+6 of this past finals than Kobe did in his lifetime.

For all the talk about LeBron needing "super duper stacked teams", he won a ring in 2013 with Wade averaging 16 PPG in the playoffs (due to injuries) and Bosh averaging 12 PPG. This is actually WORSE production than Kobe received from Gasol and Odom!

Kevin Love was injured, and very limited in the 2016 finals. He had very little to do with the Cavaliers winning the finals, so the "2 superstars" argument is silly.

Kyrie Irving's season immediately before LeBron came back to Cleveland is nearly identical statistically to 2016 Kemba Walker. Acting as if LeBron was joining the best PG in the league is silly, although Kyrie seems poised too become a superstar soon.

Kobe doesn't necessarily play amazingly with "stacked" teams. See 2004 and 2013. And in 2012, he had two of the best bigs in the game in Bynum (who had a career year) and Gasol.

LeBron has more game winning shots in the playoffs than Kobe, despite attempting less (at least I think he's attempted less. I know he's made more at a higher percentage.)

LeBron annihilated the 2009 Magic, averaging 38/8/8 on around 50%, and the two games the Cavaliers won were because he hit a buzzer beating 3 and the game winning FTs. Yet he gets slammed for this while Kobe gets praised for beating the Magic with much worse production.

LeBron is an incredible game 7/elimination game performer. Kobe is horrible in these situations.

[stalkerforlife]

How many times do I need to tell you, Bransvestite?

July 8th, 2010. July 11th, 2014.

What don't you get?

That shit ended his chance to be on Kobe's level.

Kobe went to b2b2b finals and won b2b titles with the worst roster in NBA history to achieve both feats, while your hero was running from team to team to form super teams every time things got tough.

Just STFU and move on, dude...it's over.

[WayOfWad3]

I'd say this is a pretty accurate comparison, but you've got to list other things that are still in Kobe's favor. For instance, all-NBA, allstar, all defense teams are all heavily in Kobe's favor. As of now Kobe is the 3rd highest scorer in the league, he does have two more titles (I esteem all titles as non asterisk titles), and with the game on the line I would still prefer Kobe over LeBron at any juncture. That being said, LeBron still has the edge and will create an even bigger gap in the future.

[ArbitraryWater]

I'd say this is a pretty accurate comparison, but you've got to list other things that are still in Kobe's favor. For instance, all-NBA, allstar, all defense teams are all heavily in Kobe's favor. As of now Kobe is the 3rd highest scorer in the league, he does have two more titles (I esteem all titles as non asterisk titles), and with the game on the line I would still prefer Kobe over LeBron at any juncture. That being said, LeBron still has the edge and will create an even bigger gap in the future.

:biggums:





Anyway, why would you list stuff like all defensive teams, when LeBron is the far better defender? Far better... his recent post-season run defense is miles above any of Kobe's.

And all star games? Really? Lol

[RRR3]

Continuing....


LeBron has been a superstar for 12 years, which is already almost as long as Kobe was a superstar.

For what it's worth LeBron destroys Kobe head-to-head. IMO, this doesn't mean much of anything, though, so feel free to ignore it

LeBron just beat a 73 win team. Not by himself obviously (big ups to Kyrie Irving in particular!). But it was a MASSIVE accomplishment.

While Kobe's 09 and 10 teams weren't "stacked" in the sense of having multiple all-stars, they were hardly underdogs against their opponents, now where they? Furthermore, LeBron has only lost one finals that he should have won (2011). Granted it was a hideous performance and should not be forgotten, but Kobe had an awful finals in 2004 himself, and unlike LeBron lacks the dominant finals performance he put up after the 11 debacle.

Saying LeBron "needs stacked teams" is disingenuous. Before 2011, LeBron's best 2nd option was Mo freaking Williams. Do you really think Serge Ibaka couldn't replicate what Kevin Love did this playoffs for the Cavaliers? hell,he'd be more useful IMO. Is Ibaka a superstar? When you ignore fit, you assume huge names automatically make a team unbeatable, and ignore the law of diminishing returns. Cleveland Love isn't Minnesota Love.


LeBron doesn't "make his teammates worse". In 2012, when Dwyane Wade was injured, Chris Bosh was averaging around _25 PPG as Lebron's 2nd option. Chalmers was averaging about 14 PPG. Bosh's PPG went down because he went from being the 1st option to the third option! Same with Love. Wade declined due to injuries, not Lebron. Kyrie is looking like he will have the best years of his career with LeBron. Not to mention all the role players LeBron has worked extremely well with.





I hope I don't need to keep going... :coleman:

[RRR3]

stalkerforlife thinks Kobe is better. If that isn't a ringing endorsement for LeBron being better, I don't know what is!

[WayOfWad3]

How many times do I need to tell you, Bransvestite?

July 8th, 2010. July 11th, 2014.

What don't you get?

That shit ended his chance to be on Kobe's level.

Kobe went to b2b2b finals and won b2b titles with the worst roster in NBA history to achieve both feats, while your hero was running from team to team to form super teams every time things got tough.

Just STFU and move on, dude...it's over.
Love you stalker, however stop it with this bs of posting dates and saying that "it's over." People like you can't be trusted, you proclaim to stop watching basketball and posting if LeBron wins the title yet here you are breaking that very vow, why should we trust any of the crap you post?
Why don't I just post the dates where Kobe forced a trade to the Lakers and demanded a trade out of LA? Kobe apparently had the same weak mentality LeBron had. Kobe had it easy, forced his way to a franchise that attracts the biggest names in all of basketball on a consistent basis whereas LeBron was drafted to Cleveland, the "Mistake on the Lake." Joakim Noah said it best, "Who wants to go to Cleveland?" No one does, yet LeBron made it work there. I also notice (as RRR3 has posted multiple times in this thread) that LeBron creampies Kobe in career accomplishments, yet all you just do is post dates and * and then declare "game over" like *******.
Long story short, your post is BS, LeBron switching teams does not diminish his legacy at all, if anything it enhances it. LeBron was a pioneer, willing to go and do what no NBA player had ever dreamed of achieving, and has done (on multiple occasions) what no one has ever done. I have Kobe ranked 8th all-time which is more than generous, just try to appreciate both; stop degrading this site and post something intellectual for once

[Nilocon165]

Jordan: Was on a 70 win team

Lebron: Beat a 70 win team

Kobe: Once shot 6/24 in a game 7 :lol

[WayOfWad3]

:biggums:





Anyway, why would you list stuff like all defensive teams, when LeBron is the far better defender? Far better... his recent post-season run defense is miles above any of Kobe's.

And all star games? Really? Lol
Just trying to look at both sides of the argument, and I personally like to look at career accolades in spite of the incredible bias the media puts into it (Kobe's all-NBA and all-defense teams in 2011 were absolute BS, but he got them anyway).
And I know taking Kobe is obviously a weird choice, but I would rather he jack up shots at the end of the game than LeBron. Game 7 was a good example of LeBron forcing the issue and getting nothing done whereas Prime Kobe (I believe) would do a better job with those tough kid-range shots than LeBron would

[stalkerforlife]

Love you stalker, however stop it with this bs of posting dates and saying that "it's over." People like you can't be trusted, you proclaim to stop watching basketball and posting if LeBron wins the title yet here you are breaking that very vow, why should we trust any of the crap you post?
Why don't I just post the dates where Kobe forced a trade to the Lakers and demanded a trade out of LA? Kobe apparently had the same weak mentality LeBron had. Kobe had it easy, forced his way to a franchise that attracts the biggest names in all of basketball on a consistent basis whereas LeBron was drafted to Cleveland, the "Mistake on the Lake." Joakim Noah said it best, "Who wants to go to Cleveland?" No one does, yet LeBron made it work there. I also notice (as RRR3 has posted multiple times in this thread) that LeBron creampies Kobe in career accomplishments, yet all you just do is post dates and * and then declare "game over" like *******.
Long story short, your post is BS, LeBron switching teams does not diminish his legacy at all, if anything it enhances it. LeBron was a pioneer, willing to go and do what no NBA player had ever dreamed of achieving, and has done (on multiple occasions) what no one has ever done. I have Kobe ranked 8th all-time which is more than generous, just try to appreciate both; stop degrading this site and post something intellectual for once

Didn't read.

You're a delusional Bransvestite and you don't deserve my time.

[RRR3]

Jordan: Was on a 70 win team

Lebron: Beat a 70 win team

Kobe: Once shot 6/24 in a game 7 :lol
Also...


http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/b6447a6377a4880c875501911d2b1bb6.jpg

[RRR3]

Just trying to look at both sides of the argument, and I personally like to look at career accolades in spite of the incredible bias the media puts into it (Kobe's all-NBA and all-defense teams in 2011 were absolute BS, but he got them anyway).
And I know taking Kobe is obviously a weird choice, but I would rather he jack up shots at the end of the game than LeBron. Game 7 was a good example of LeBron forcing the issue and getting nothing done whereas Prime Kobe (I believe) would do a better job with those tough kid-range shots than LeBron would
I'd much rather have Kobe shoot a midrange shot as well. LeBron did hit a huge 3 around 4:50 though it's worth mentioning.

[WayOfWad3]

Didn't read.

You're a delusional Bransvestite and you don't deserve my time.
I win then. You were unable to refute a single point. Call me a Branveastite all you want, I'm a Heat fan

[RRR3]

I win then. You were unable to refute a single point. Call me a Branveastite all you want, I'm a Heat fan
That's all he does. He can't ever respond to any decent arguments, because either he's too immature to face up to his trolling or he's too stupid to realize when he's wrong.

[WayOfWad3]

I'd much rather have Kobe shoot a midrange shot as well. LeBron did hit a huge 3 around 4:50 though it's worth mentioning.
True, LeBron's problem though is that he chooses many times to ISO at the end of games which really ain't his bread and butter and settle for jumpers instead of running an offense which he is masterful with. Huge 3 though, Cavs don't win without it

[RRR3]

True, LeBron's problem though is that he chooses many times to ISO at the end of games which really ain't his bread and butter and settle for jumpers instead of running an offense which he is masterful with. Huge 3 though, Cavs don't win without it
LeBron is really good at creating his own shot/getting his shot off in any situation. But how effective this strategy is depends on if his jumper is working or not, and recently he's been shooting bricks most of the time. He was much more effective in ISO situations in Miami. If he ISO's now, I'd prefer he drive to the rim.

[WayOfWad3]

That's all he does. He can't ever respond to any decent arguments, because either he's too immature to face up to his trolling or he's too stupid to realize when he's wrong.
Even worse he didn't even acknowledge where I said Kobe had the advantage over LeBron. These people are just wasting their time, our time, and their lives

[RRR3]

Even worse he didn't even acknowledge where I said Kobe had the advantage over LeBron. These people are just wasting their time, our time, and their lives
He has the debating tactics of a toddler. Seriously. It's sad.

[knicksman]

Honestly youre a dumbass if you fall for lebron type of players. As the saying goes, "confidence is silent, insecurities are loud." Thats why you dont see duncan giving a damn about stats. Coz he knew hes the best so no need to constantly prove yourself. Meanwhile, insecure losers like wilt, bran, oscar needs to statpad coz they knew deep inside that they arent the best. And the results prove that. Lebron needed superteams after superteams and refs just to win rings while kobe got rid of shaq. But stats tho. Lol i just laugh at posters who ranks based on stats, coz that just shows how dumb they are. Lol


The only thing that matters is result/rings and until lebron wins a ring that will be respected everyone, he will never be better than kobe.

[Nilocon165]

Honestly youre a dumbass if you fall for lebron type of players. As the saying goes, "confidence is silent, insecurities are loud." Thats why you dont see duncan giving a damn about stats. Coz he knew hes the best so no need to constantly prove yourself. Meanwhile, insecure losers like wilt, bran, oscar needs to statpad coz they knew deep inside that they arent the best. And the results prove that. Lebron needed superteams after superteams just to win rings while kobe got rid of shaq. But stats tho. Lol i just laugh at posters who ranks based on stats, coz that just shows how dumb they are. Lol


The only thing that matters is result/rings and until lebron wins a ring that will be respected everyone, he will never be better than kobe.
We now cut to some EXCLUSIVE live footage of knicksman!



https://veuwer.com/i/32oi.gif

[knicksman]

We now cut to an EXCLUSIVE live clip of knicksman!



https://veuwer.com/i/32oi.gif


:sleeping loser

[Inferno]

LeBron just led a 3-1 comeback against a 73 win team and some haters are still saying he doesn't have a ring "respected by everyone" :facepalm

Someone post LeBron and Kobe's Finals averages, they've both played in 7 so it'll be a fair comparison.

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron just led a 3-1 comeback against a 73 win team and some haters are still saying he doesn't have a ring "respected by everyone" :facepalm

Someone post LeBron and Kobe's Finals averages, they've both played in 7 so it'll be a fair comparison.

They should add regular season & postseason averages, as well as MVP/FMVP count

[sammichoffate]

**** size

[ShawkFactory]

LeBron just led a 3-1 comeback against a 73 win team and some haters are still saying he doesn't have a ring "respected by everyone" :facepalm

Someone post LeBron and Kobe's Finals averages, they've both played in 7 so it'll be a fair comparison.
some people just hate Lebron way too much.

Like an unhealthy amount. Which is fine. He can just laugh with his rings and his consensus top 10 ranking...and climbing.

[Bigsmoke]

All time leader in shots missed :bowdown:

Kobe is not to be ****ed with :no:










no for real **** dat ***** :oldlol:

LBJ >>>

[SpecialQue]

Five rings
Loyal to his team/city
Hot wife
Sexier
Has a father

[Kiddlovesnets]

5 > 2.5*

0 rings and 0-1 without 2 superstars, 2.5*/6 with 2 superstars. Nuff said.

I could expand more but i'm not going to get into an argument I know i've already won.

Kobe has 2.3 rings, not 5.

[NBAGOAT]

Five rings
Loyal to his team/city
Hot wife
Sexier
Has a father

:oldlol:

[Hey Yo]

Five rings
Loyal to his team/city
Hot wife
Sexier
Has a father
Only has 2 rings
Publicly demanded to be traded
Cheated on her....rape
Don't care either way
He's suing his father

[Mr Feeny]

Five rings
Loyal to his team/city
Hot wife
Sexier
Has a father

These are the strangest arguments I've ever seen:roll: :roll:
Only on ish:oldlol: :lol

[knicksman]

Only has 2 rings
Publicly demanded to be traded
Cheated on her....rape
Don't care either way
He's suing his father

LOL. you truly are the dumbest poster. Kobe can cheat her and still cant divorce him meanwhile bran has a shit wife yet still cant cheat on her. The definition of a loser. Lol