A dozen reasons why Lbj>MJ In any era.

[TheWinningFam]

Jordan would be demar/kobe in today's game.

1. Kobe and demar derozan are good examples of what jordan would look like in todays era except kobe was a BETTER three point shooter than jordan...

Kobe was somewhat efficient from mid range because he had decent three point shooting ability that forced defenders to guard him close, and when they did he had a GOAT fadeaway shot kobe being a better 3 point career shooter than jordan in the modern era proves so.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1463bbc403e550cc5a680f483c3f5e42/tumblr_n7he9qbNCF1rbqt4yo1_500.gif


2. In todays nba Jordan would be forced to either A. make double teamed fadeaway jumpshots the most inefficient shots in the modern era, or B make fadeaway threes like those seen above..
Jordan had the luxury of not having to face top class defenders + less effective no zone defenses. All of this in a SLOWER PACED nba spacing era, Jordan would be less efficient due to lesser amount of possessions and ability to catch the defense off guard with fast play.

3.What jordan's game would look like in the modern era:
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImprobablePoorDeinonychus.gif
Even in a more spaced era, teams can easily shadow double team a player and jordan would be forced to make tough fadeaway shots that would only be worth 2 points because he couldn't make threes. Midrange chucking in today's era doesn't work because 3>2 no matter how good you are as a mid range shooter its no better than dunking at the rim, they are all worth 2 points

4.The 90s:
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif


That extra 1.6 points allowed per 100 possessions and extra 3.1 possessions per game in Jordan's era can easily provide 1.5-2 points extra and a bit higher TS% in the playoffs. It represents a roughly 5% inflation in stats.


5.otoh, With Lebron's playmaking scoring and defensive upgrades the portland trailblazers would probably win in 6 vs the bulls in 92. REMEMBER Lebron has NEVER lost when he was 48 mins from a championship. jordan HAS TWICE.

6.Clyde's 92 finals stats 24/7/3
Lebron's 16 Finals stats: 30/11/9
Jordan's 92 finals stats: 34/4/6
7.Lebron's superior playmaking assists and rebounding numbers would make up for the measly 4 point advantage that jordan retained. we know this because an assist is ALWAYS ATLEAST worth 2 points, an assist is always more valuable face value wise than points alone. Not to mention lebron also was the main anchor on defense, otoh jordan benefited from the defense of Scottie Pippen.



7.And dont forget, GOAT DEFENSE
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GJ_XwmPb5qs/V2eczO-bImI/AAAAAAAACkQ/WY40rBJVJp0sHqrrgexmhaIrvBu5SOjmg/w506-h750/LeBron-James-Blocks-Iguodala.gif


8.If clyde averages 6 more points 4 more rebounds and 6 more assists the trailblazers win in 6 over the bulls keep in mind drexler had a BETTER supporting cast than lebron, he had 3 other 13+ point scorers otoh, lebron only had 1 and that was due to the gs defense keying in on lebron.

9. Take the 3 because it takes pressure off of you and allows you to get more open. With only 1 other viable scorer teams can double team in on you. This is what allowed kyrie to score more than he usually would.

10.Lebron having to be the cav's best rim protector, rebounder, playmaker, ball handler, AND anchor the defense, ALL WHILE BEING THE OTHER TEAMS MAIN DEFENSIVE FOCUS POINT speaks volumes, Jordan never had this type of load in any of his finals as he could rely on pippen for defense, and later rodman for rebounds. All jordan had to do was go out and score, anything else was just icing on the cake..

11.If lebron had to be lebron consistently had a good team around him you would see more games like game 6 boston, and the back to back 41 point games agianst the warriors, he cant because he has to do other things or his teams collapse.

12.Lebron is actually a better scorer and shooter and closer, when it matters most.
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LeBron-game-winning-jumper-vs-warriors.gif
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-James-4th-Quarter-Shot-Gm-7-NBA-Finals.gif

Lebron is the GOAT in elimination games and game 7s..
Elimination games usually come down to 1 thing, and that's getting buckets and no other player on the planet does it better than your highness, lebron himself.If its game 7, you take lebron over anyone hands down, he just cant let you down, Otoh, jordan has lost multiple times when having the chance to clinch a series or championship..

[JebronLames]

Fax!!!


:applause: :applause: :bowdown:

[Klay 3D]

39 year old Jordan was dropping 20ppg on the same 2p efficiency as prime Derozan. A 39 year old Lebron would resemble more like an old Shaq or Hakeem.

I forgot. Who has a DPOY award?...Lebron would be a Pippen in the 90s. Actually, I believe Pippen would make Lebron his bitch like how FMVP Kawhi does.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebronkawhi.gif

[TheWinningFam]

39 year old Jordan was dropping 20ppg on the same 2p efficiency as prime Derozan. A 39 year old Lebron would resemble more like an old Shaq or Hakeem.

I forgot. Who has a DPOY award?...Lebron would be a Pippen in the 90s. Actually, I believe Pippen would make Lebron his bitch like how FMVP Kawhi does.

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/lebronkawhi.gif
1.Lebron should have easily won the dpoy in 2012-13 he got robbed by tyson chandler :facepalm

2.You just proved my point, lebron won that series while going up agianst a better defenders than anyone jordan faced (Outside of payton.)

3.Derozan isn't in his prime yet :facepalm only 26 years old

4. Jordan didn't have to vs elite ball handlers like lebron does, when he did we saw what happened: https://66.media.tumblr.com/d0fb28801247b3f17c8784a557f04681/tumblr_n4rdwyet4N1rgx7ico1_400.gif

5. The fact that the player that guarded lebron wins mvp when his team is injured speaks volumes, You wouldn't get mvp if you guarded Joel anthony would you? and even when he lost his stats were fantastic.:facepalm

[jayfan]

:rolleyes:





.

[Trollsmasher]

OP shredding:bowdown:

[TheWinningFam]

Them stans been avoiding this thread like the plague http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png

[Young X]

If Lebron is really the GOAT then why the constant comparisons with Michael?

You're using Jordan as a measuring stick and indirectly discrediting your whole stance.

[warriorfan]

6/6 > 0*/7

[TheWinningFam]

If Lebron is really the GOAT then why the constant comparisons with Michael?

You're using Jordan as a measuring stick and indirectly discrediting your whole stance.
It's human's nature to compare one thing to the other, I'm not saying jordan's not a top 5 player. Im just saying he was ahead of his time and wouldn't be as sucessful in the modern era,

In terms of accolades he's a top 2 goat
Sense he is considered a top 2 goat by many it's only fair to compare top 2 goats to Each other.

[TheWinningFam]

6/6 > 0*/7

0/22

[Spurs m8]

Man there's some stupid c*nts on this site lol

Yes op... Jordan is demar derozan you moron.

Kobe also missed the most shots in history and was a glorified chucker.

[Spurs m8]

Actually... 500 posts in less than a month.

Confirmed f*cking loser.

[Dr Hawk]

Jordan would be demar/kobe in today's game.



http://sim1.subirimagenes.net/img/2013/11/03/13110302224896253.gif

[TheWinningFam]

Post facts and all you get are ad homs and deflections in return :facepalm

[TheWinningFam]

http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png

[Lebronxrings]

the league is much simply better now than compared to the 90s. It shouldn't even be a discussion on lebron vs Jordan. Jordan would get killed in this era. The discussion is more on their career versus career.

[TheWinningFam]

the league is much simply better now than compared to the 90s. It shouldn't even be a discussion on lebron vs Jordan. Jordan would get killed in this era. The discussion is more on their career versus career.
Agreed, but first it needs to be a general consensus that lebron would do better in the 90s than jordan would. :confusedshrug:

[kamil]

Post facts and all you get are ad homs and deflections in return :facepalm

You're an idiot.

[TheWinningFam]

Your're right and i have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion. :cry:
:applause:

[scuzzy]

Spot on OP


Jordan must of been cunning as fvck to cross up the likes of Kevin Johnson only to have help "twin towers" D in Barkley and Majerley waiting in the paint :lol :rolleyes:

[hateraid]

If Lebron is really the GOAT then why the constant comparisons with Michael?

You're using Jordan as a measuring stick and indirectly discrediting your whole stance.

The same could be said and even more about the opposite. Any mention of the name Lebron sends red flags to the Jordan stans who immediately jump in to defend him. Even if Jordan wasn't mentioned in the discussion a Jordan will always reference Jordan in defense.

[nba_55]

Spot on OP


Jordan must of been cunning as fvck to cross up the likes of Kevin Johnson only to have help "twin towers" D in Barkley and Majerley waiting in the paint :lol :rolleyes::roll: :roll: :roll:

[tpols]

this a pathetic, bastardized attempt at copying 3ball.. his arguments were mostly sound.. yours.. are a monstrosity.

[fourkicks44]

Them stans been avoiding this thread like the plague http://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/5I5s8.png

Maybe because this thread; is utter crap, a very poor attempt at trolling, just flat out boring and uninspiring.

Sorry buddy.

[TheWinningFam]

Maybe because this thread; is utter crap, a very poor attempt at trolling, just flat out boring and uninspiring.

Sorry buddy.
Still waiting on someone to dispute what i said with actual evidence instead of deflecting and resorting to ad homs :facepalm

[r0drig0lac]

:facepalm

[TheWinningFam]

this a pathetic, bastardized attempt at copying 3ball.. his arguments were mostly sound.. yours.. are a monstrosity.
Is there anything you'd like to refute without ad homs? :facepalm

[K.dot ShowTime]

TheLosingFam go home you are drunk

[SecondTake]

It's human's nature to compare one thing to the other, I'm not saying jordan's not a top 5 player. Im just saying he was ahead of his time and wouldn't be as sucessful in the modern era,

In terms of accolades he's a top 2 goat
Sense he is considered a top 2 goat by many it's only fair to compare top 2 goats to Each other.

LBJ is not even close to being a top 2 goat if we're just measuring accolades. They don't compare on resume, no offense.

[hateraid]

LBJ is not even close to being a top 2 goat if we're just measuring accolades. They don't compare on resume, no offense.
So shut it down and give it to Jabbar, Wilt, or Russell. No offense.

[D. Toretto]

MJ is DeMar DeRozan in todays game is one of the best laughs I had on ISH :roll:

[joshwake]

This thread is a good example why i don't come around here much anymore. Thanks to the OP for making ISH that much dumber.

[hateraid]

This thread is a good example why i don't come around here much anymore. Thanks to the OP for making ISH that much dumber.

What's dumber? The OP or criticizing something without being able to articulate because that's just YOUR opinion. I think the latter.

If you disagree, give a valid reason why. Otherwise your no worse than the opinion your criticize. Even worse. These type of posts are elementary. It's no different than a child saying "you're stupid".

[tpols]

What's dumber? The OP or criticizing something without being able to articulate because that's just YOUR opinion. I think the latter.

If you disagree, give a valid reason why. Otherwise your no worse than the opinion your criticize. Even worse. These type of posts are elementary. It's no different than a child saying "you're stupid".

jordan would be like derozan in today's era?
Lebron is a better shooter closer?

:biggums:


there's no point in breaking it down.. it's way too far gone for that.. whats with the constant anti-jordan agenda?

[Fudge]

http://m.c.lnkd.licdn.com/mpr/mpr/p/8/005/092/3e2/340abf9.jpg

[3ball]

Jordan would be demar/kobe in today's game.


Is Demar anywhere near Kobe?






Kobe had decent three point shooting ability that forced defenders to guard him close


The hand-check ban in 2005 prevented defenders from playing as close as before, so you're factually incorrect - Kobe's defenders couldn't put their hands on him, so they guarded him less tight than Jordan's defenders did.

Also, defenses couldn't leave Jordan open for 3 pointers because he would make them (like 92' Finals), or he would step inside the line and make a contested midrange shot at 50% efficiency, which equals a 33% three-pointer (same percentage as Lebron, Westbrook, Kobe, Derozan, Butler).







https://66.media.tumblr.com/1463bbc403e550cc5a680f483c3f5e42/tumblr_n7he9qbNCF1rbqt4yo1_500.gif


Kobe was a better 3-point shooter


MJ and Kobe shot the same percentage on 3-pointers, except MJ hated threes and mostly used them in bailout situations, whereas Kobe relied on the shot because his at-rim and midrange attack was inferior to MJ's.

Btw, Jordan made plenty of threes with the defender draped all over (like your gif above) at 3:17, 4:04, 4:43, 5:06, 5:12, 9:47, 10:20, 10:27, 12:53:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzbrBUFB4Y






Kobe was somewhat efficient from mid range because he had decent three point shooting ability that forced defenders to guard him close


The NBA uses SportsVu Technology to keeps stats of all player movements - their stats from NBA.com show that most of today's 3-pointer are taken with 4+ feet of room.

Specifically, 70% of Curry's threes are taken with 4+ feet of room, while the rest of the league attempts 80% of their threes with 4+ feet of room:

CURRY DATA: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=406865
LEAGUE DATA: http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12316018#post12316018


Don't be surprised that today's 3-pointers are mostly wide open - today's teams have 3-4 shooters behind the line on ever play (spacing), so defenders can't make timely rotations most of the time.






Kobe had a GOAT fadeaway


Not compared to Jordan.. :no: .. Not even close tbh

Jordan led the league in scoring with his midrange fadeaway - he attempted 1202 midrange jumpshots in 1997 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season), which is more TOTAL jumphots than Curry took in 2016 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201939/stats/shooting/) (1191).

This is quite amazing and threadworthy - Jordan's 1997 was the greatest midrange jumpshooting season ever, and it's not even close.

Despite his reliance on contested midrange as a 33-35 year old player, his rim attack was precise enough for him to get 94 (http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=316rspc&s=8#.VI_53SvF_Ck), 49 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season), and 89 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) dunks from 96-98', which was top 5% in the league and more than Kobe, Tmac, Westbrook, Paul George or Vince.






2. In todays nba Jordan would be forced to either A. make double teamed fadeaway jumpshots the most inefficient shots in the modern era, or B make fadeaway threes like those seen above..


Lebron, Kobe, Derozan, Wade, Westbrook and Butler do very well shooting only 33% on 3-pointers, which is the same as MJ.

However, those guys are horrible midrange shooters, whereas MJ was a GOAT midrange shooter.. MJ is the only superathlete in history with either a goat midrange or 3-point shot - essentially, he's the only superathlete EVER with a goat jumpshot.






Midrange chucking in today's era doesn't work


Nonsense - every SG and SF in the league uses midrange shots as a material portion of their offense.. Also, midrange shots are the most-used shots in clutch situations, for obvious reasons:

It's much harder for a defense to prevent midrange shots or reduce their efficiency because a good midrange shooter is accustomed to shooting with a defender draped all over.. To a certain extent, a defense can't prevent midrange shots - they can only close their eyes and hope the shooter misses.

Otoh, the availability and efficiency of 3-pointers can be significantly reduced at the highest levels of competition, as the greatest 3-point shooting team ever found out this year (warriors).






5.otoh, With Lebron's playmaking scoring and defensive upgrades the portland trailblazers would probably win in 6 vs the bulls in 92.


The Bulls are a greater team on both sides of the ball than anything Lebron can fathom.. He would be confounded and bewildered against the greatest perimeter defenders and team defense of all time..

And we saw what happened the last time he was confounded and bewildered: the 2010 ECSF was a beta quit job, and 2011 Finals were scared choke job (the goat choke).






Clyde's 92 finals stats 24/7/3

Lebron's 16 Finals stats: 30/11/9

Jordan's 92 finals stats: 34/4/6


Lebron's 07' finals stats 22 ppg on 36%

Lebron's 11' finals stats 18 ppg on 47%



CONTINUED.....
.

[3ball]

.
CONTINUED...





Lebron's played goat defense


Jordan was the best defender EVER at his position, whereas Lebron is nowhere near.

Also, the Cavs' DRtg in the Finals was only 108, which was above the league-average of 106.4 - so Lebron's presence didn't result in good team defense.

Here's more reality: MJ didn't let Magic or Drexler win FMVP, let alone the two role players that averaged 12 ppg and 8 ppg..

Infact, Jordan thoroughly dominated Magic and Drexler - otoh, the only time Lebron had a head-to-head matchup with another all-time great was 2012 Finals, when Durant outscored him 31 to 29 and outshot him 55% to 49%.





10.Lebron having to be the cav's best rim protector, rebounder, playmaker, ball handler, AND anchor the defense, ALL WHILE BEING THE OTHER TEAMS MAIN DEFENSIVE FOCUS POINT speaks volumes, Jordan never had this type of load in any of his finals as he could rely on pippen for defense, and later rodman for rebounds. All jordan had to do was go out and score, anything else was just icing on the cake..


Jordan 91-93' Finals:.. 36/7/8 on 53%

Lebron 2016 VFinals:. 30/11/9 on 49%


Jordan's 6 point advantage takes more energy and is more valuable than Lebron's 4 defensive rebounds.. Lebron's 1 assist edge is cancelled out by nearly TWO more turnovers (2.4 to Lebron's 4.0).

Also, Jordan faced greater defensive attention, since he averaged 15-20 ppg more than his 2nd option, compared to Lebron's 1 ppg.

It's no coincidence that Lebron shot 10 percentage points better than last year's Finals, when Kyrie was hurt and didn't play.





That extra 1.6 points allowed per 100 possessions and extra 3.1 possessions per game in Jordan's era can easily provide 1.5-2 points extra and a bit higher TS% in the playoffs. It represents a roughly 5% inflation in stats.


It's statistical fact that the offensive rebounding rate used in the 80's would increase today's ORtg by 4 points:



From Nylon Calculus:



"Looking at the league-average level, the takeaway is this: an NBA team generally improves on offense by about 0.62 points per 100 possessions for each percentage point increase in its offensive rebound rate. This means that if NBA teams were to improve their offensive rebounding from 23% (where it is now) to 30% (where it was a few years ago), they would generally score about 4.3 points more per 100 possessions."

http://nyloncalculus.com/2016/01/06/offensive-rebounds-and-three-pointers/
https://gravityandlevity.wordpress.com/2016/01/05/the-value-of-improved-offensive-rebounding/




From Grantland:



"The general conclusion the authors presented at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference in March, based on data from the 2011-12 season, was that teams could net about 4 points extra per game by recalibrating their philosophy toward offensive rebounding — that teams were being too cautious."

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/party-crashers-debunking-the-myths-of-offensive-rebounding-and-transition-defense/




These statistics claim that the offensive rebounding rate used in the 80's would increase today's ORtg by 4 points - and we already know that the greater transition opportunities from crashing the glass increased ORtg many more points.

However, ORtg was only 1-2 points higher in the 80's, which means that superior halfcourt defense (paint-camping, hand-checking, and no spacing) mostly offset the ORtg increase created by 2nd chance points and greater transition opportunities.






Even in a more spaced era, teams can easily shadow double team a player and jordan would be forced to make tough fadeaway shots that would only be worth 2 points because he couldn't make threes.



In the GIF below, which defender needs to "shadow"??????


https://media.giphy.com/media/10RuiINsEB5SHm/giphy.gif


As you can see, overt "shadowing" isn't necessary when every defender is bunched up together (no spacing), and therefore in "shadowing" position already - things like shadowing are only necessary to compensate for today's defenders being more spaced out.

Btw, you probably aren't aware that "shading" occurred on screen-roll action in previous eras EXACTLY like it does today:

Examples of standard screen-roll shading Part 1 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10707413&postcount=106)
Examples of standard screen-roll shading Part 2 (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10707418&postcount=107)
.

[hateraid]

jordan would be like derozan in today's era?
Lebron is a better shooter closer?

:biggums:


there's no point in breaking it down.. it's way too far gone for that.. whats with the constant anti-jordan agenda?

So articulate. I'm not saying OP is right. I'm saying criticizing without substance is even more shallow.
OP has every right to state his opinion. If all you can do is respond with "you're stupid" then you have no validation in your comment.

[LeFraud James]

So articulate. I'm not saying OP is right. I'm saying criticizing without substance is even more shallow.
OP has every right to state his opinion. If all you can do is respond with "you're stupid" then you have no validation in your comment.


:facepalm

I understand everyone has an opinion, but encouraging agenda driven threads like this?

I guess shit posters will always back other shit posters.

[livinglegend]

OP :applause: :applause: :applause:

[hateraid]

:facepalm

I understand everyone has an opinion, but encouraging agenda driven threads like this?

I guess shit posters will always back other shit posters.

Exactly. Shit posters like you back shit posts. You criticize agendas yet your username is an agenda right off the bat.

I'm not agreeing with OP. I'm saying if you're going to disagree, make a valid point. Or don't comment at all. Did you see me criticize 3 ball's post? Not at all. So take your facepalm and shove it

[Hey Yo]

Here's more reality: MJ didn't let Magic or Drexler win FMVP, let alone the two role players that averaged 12 ppg and 8 ppg..Infact, Jordan thoroughly dominated Magic and Drexler head-to-head.
How could MJ dominate Magic or let Magic win FMVP when Pippen was the one guarding Magic in the 1991 Finals?

Quote from 1991

"It's tough to guard Magic and then go down and be expected to carry the load offensively," Jordan said following the series opener. "It's a challenge, but I have to do it."
Except MJ didn't like 3ball wants you to believe.

[I]"However, things changed in Game 2 when the Bulls discovered a new defensive stopper. Pippen switched over onto Johnson after Jordan picked up his second personal foul in the first quarter and did an outstanding job on the Lakers' star, pestering him into 4-for-13 shooting."

[3ball]

.
MJ vs. Lebron - Career Finals Stats:



JORDAN:. 33.6 ppg.. 6.0 rpg.. 6.0 apg.. 2.4 tov.. 1.8 spg.. 0.7 bpg.. 48.1 fg
LEBRON:. 27.0 ppg.. 9.9 reb.. 7.2 apg.. 4.0 tov.. 1.9 spg.. 0.8 bpg.. 45.1 fg
.

[Hey Yo]

It's ignorant to be unaware that Jordan was Magic's primary defender:



[SIZE="2"]DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:


[i]Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none
"Pippen did a great job on me," Johnson said. "Once Michael got into early foul trouble, you had to expect they would make that switch.

"They were trying wear me out or take the ball out of my hands, take your pick. Scottie is more physical than Michael so the matchup was a little different." Full-Court Pressure

Pippen said, "I was trying to defend Magic full court so he could not pick apart of our offense.

"I had success against Magic tonight," said Pippen, "but whether I continue to play him is up to the coaching staff."

"With Jordan free of the burden of trying to guard Johnson, he scored 23 of his 33 points in the second half, including 14 in the final quarter to send the Chicago Stadium crowd of 18,676 into a frenzy."

MJ was able to save energy for offense cause he no longer had to guard Magic



Exactly - so Lebron has never dominated another all-time great in a head-to-head matchup like Jordan did:

Even with your original fudged numbers favoring Durant, LeBron still dominated him all around in the series.

Must be nice to have Pippen guarding the other teams best player while MJ can just focus on offense and help D every now and then.

[Kvnzhangyay]

It is impossible to defeat an ignorant man in argument.

-William G. McAdoo

This goes both ways.

[3ball]

How could MJ dominate Magic or let Magic win FMVP when Pippen was the one guarding Magic in the 1991 Finals?



It's ignorant to be unaware that Jordan was Magic's primary defender:



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:



Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none


Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73sVQC6QD4
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZR9PG13cuQ
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKm8oB7QM1w
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfjVFGzAbXw
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNYd8DeKbqE



Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%) .






Durant averaged 30.6, 6 rebounds and 2.2 assists.

LeBron averaged 28.6, 10.2 rebounds and 7.4 assists.



Exactly - so Lebron has never dominated another all-time great in a head-to-head matchup like Jordan did:


Jordan 1991 Finals:. 31/7/11 on 56%
MagicI 1991 Finals:. 19/7/12 on 43%

JordanI 1992 Finals:. 36 ppg on 53%
Drexler 1992 Finals:. 25 ppg on 42%



NOW THAT'S THOROUGH DOMINATION OF ANOTHER ALL-TIME GREAT.
.

[Hey Yo]

It's ignorant to be unaware that Jordan was Magic's primary defender:



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:



Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none


Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncUC9fSFdik
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S6AWPT6fG0
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cueGQChyFuU
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PO0LJVxaqD0
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCNFQSBUe5c



Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%) .
YT links are private. Need some proof of your claims cause I got:

"However, things changed in Game 2 when the Bulls discovered a new defensive stopper. Pippen switched over onto Johnson after Jordan picked up his second personal foul in the first quarter and did an outstanding job on the Lakers' star, pestering him into 4-for-13 shooting.

[3ball]

YT links are private. Need some proof of your claims cause I got:



fixed the links - they work now



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:



Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none


Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73sVQC6QD4
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZR9PG13cuQ
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKm8oB7QM1w
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfjVFGzAbXw
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNYd8DeKbqE



Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%) .

[TheWinningFam]

fixed the links - they work now



DEFENSIVE ASSIGNMENTS BY QUARTER, 1991 FINALS:



Pippen guarded Magic for:

GAME 1: none
GAME 2: 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters
GAME 3: 2nd and 3rd quarters
GAME 4: the last 4 minutes of 4th quarter
GAME 5: none


Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73sVQC6QD4
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZR9PG13cuQ
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKm8oB7QM1w
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfjVFGzAbXw
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNYd8DeKbqE



Overall, MJ guarded Magic for 14 of 20 quarters (70%), compared to only 6 of 20 for Pippen (30%) .
MJ wasn't dominating Magic H2H cause Pippen was the one guarding Magic after game 1.

Bulls lose game 1 playing MJ ball, win 4 straight after that cause MJ can concentrate on the offense and not guard Magic.[/QUOTE]

[diamenz]

you're a joke and your arguments are shit, op.

you idiots think jordan would get "killed" in this era. who has time to waste on you fu.cks?

[Dragonyeuw]

MJ wasn't dominating Magic H2H cause Pippen was the one guarding Magic after game 1.

Bulls lose game 1 playing MJ ball, win 4 straight after that cause MJ can concentrate on the offense and not guard Magic.[/QUOTE]

So what was the alternative? MJ stay on Magic and Pippen carry the offense? Do you think Pippen required that much defensive attention that John Paxson would be left wide open to go for 20 points in the deciding game? Believe me, if MJ was only needed to be a scoring compliment( which was Pip's role on offense), and concentrate more on defense how much pressure do you think he would have been put on Magic just bringing the ball up-court?

[RealSkipBayless]

Spot on OP


Jordan must of been cunning as fvck to cross up the likes of Kevin Johnson only to have help "twin towers" D in Barkley and Majerley waiting in the paint :lol :rolleyes:
:roll: :applause: :applause:

[Keno]

this should be stickied, all great and valid points with solid evidence and backup.

[Bronbron23]

Jordan would be demar/kobe in today's game.

1. Kobe and demar derozan are good examples of what jordan would look like in todays era except kobe was a BETTER three point shooter than jordan...

Kobe was somewhat efficient from mid range because he had decent three point shooting ability that forced defenders to guard him close, and when they did he had a GOAT fadeaway shot kobe being a better 3 point career shooter than jordan in the modern era proves so.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/1463bbc403e550cc5a680f483c3f5e42/tumblr_n7he9qbNCF1rbqt4yo1_500.gif


2. In todays nba Jordan would be forced to either A. make double teamed fadeaway jumpshots the most inefficient shots in the modern era, or B make fadeaway threes like those seen above..
Jordan had the luxury of not having to face top class defenders + less effective no zone defenses. All of this in a SLOWER PACED nba spacing era, Jordan would be less efficient due to lesser amount of possessions and ability to catch the defense off guard with fast play.

3.What jordan's game would look like in the modern era:
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImprobablePoorDeinonychus.gif
Even in a more spaced era, teams can easily shadow double team a player and jordan would be forced to make tough fadeaway shots that would only be worth 2 points because he couldn't make threes. Midrange chucking in today's era doesn't work because 3>2 no matter how good you are as a mid range shooter its no better than dunking at the rim, they are all worth 2 points

4.The 90s:
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif


That extra 1.6 points allowed per 100 possessions and extra 3.1 possessions per game in Jordan's era can easily provide 1.5-2 points extra and a bit higher TS% in the playoffs. It represents a roughly 5% inflation in stats.


5.otoh, With Lebron's playmaking scoring and defensive upgrades the portland trailblazers would probably win in 6 vs the bulls in 92. REMEMBER Lebron has NEVER lost when he was 48 mins from a championship. jordan HAS TWICE.

6.Clyde's 92 finals stats 24/7/3
Lebron's 16 Finals stats: 30/11/9
Jordan's 92 finals stats: 34/4/6
7.Lebron's superior playmaking assists and rebounding numbers would make up for the measly 4 point advantage that jordan retained. we know this because an assist is ALWAYS ATLEAST worth 2 points, an assist is always more valuable face value wise than points alone. Not to mention lebron also was the main anchor on defense, otoh jordan benefited from the defense of Scottie Pippen.



7.And dont forget, GOAT DEFENSE
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GJ_XwmPb5qs/V2eczO-bImI/AAAAAAAACkQ/WY40rBJVJp0sHqrrgexmhaIrvBu5SOjmg/w506-h750/LeBron-James-Blocks-Iguodala.gif


8.If clyde averages 6 more points 4 more rebounds and 6 more assists the trailblazers win in 6 over the bulls keep in mind drexler had a BETTER supporting cast than lebron, he had 3 other 13+ point scorers otoh, lebron only had 1 and that was due to the gs defense keying in on lebron.

9. Take the 3 because it takes pressure off of you and allows you to get more open. With only 1 other viable scorer teams can double team in on you. This is what allowed kyrie to score more than he usually would.

10.Lebron having to be the cav's best rim protector, rebounder, playmaker, ball handler, AND anchor the defense, ALL WHILE BEING THE OTHER TEAMS MAIN DEFENSIVE FOCUS POINT speaks volumes, Jordan never had this type of load in any of his finals as he could rely on pippen for defense, and later rodman for rebounds. All jordan had to do was go out and score, anything else was just icing on the cake..

11.If lebron had to be lebron consistently had a good team around him you would see more games like game 6 boston, and the back to back 41 point games agianst the warriors, he cant because he has to do other things or his teams collapse.

12.Lebron is actually a better scorer and shooter and closer, when it matters most.
http://www.totalprosports.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/LeBron-game-winning-jumper-vs-warriors.gif
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/LeBron-James-4th-Quarter-Shot-Gm-7-NBA-Finals.gif

Lebron is the GOAT in elimination games and game 7s..
Elimination games usually come down to 1 thing, and that's getting buckets and no other player on the planet does it better than your highness, lebron himself.If its game 7, you take lebron over anyone hands down, he just cant let you down, Otoh, jordan has lost multiple times when having the chance to clinch a series or championship..
Dude a slow less skilled and athletic version of mj has been getting the better of lebron since he came in the league. What are you talking about?

[TheMan]

this should be stickied, all great and valid points with solid evidence and backup.
You're easily one of the lowest IQ posters here...quite impressive to say the least.

[FKAri]

Here's all 5 games in their entirety:

Game 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S73sVQC6QD4
Game 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZR9PG13cuQ
Game 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKm8oB7QM1w
Game 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfjVFGzAbXw
Game 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNYd8DeKbqE
The most useful post 3ball ever made. Unfortunately only game 3 is up. :applause:

[3ball]

The most useful post 3ball ever made. Unfortunately only game 3 is up. :applause:
I shouldn't have to post the links. anyone can search for 1991 NBA Finals Game 1, Game 2, etc... and the latest (not banned) versions of those games will pop up

and they show that Pippen didn't guard Magic in Game 1 or 5.. he only guarded him for the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters of Game 2; the 2nd and 3rd quarters of Game 3; and the last 4 minutes of Game 4.. that's 6 of 20 quarters, while MJ guarded him 14 of 20 plus the pivotal Game 2 overtime that MJ dominated while Pippen fouled out in regulation

MJ was the primary defender on Magic, and while Magic was tough for MJ, Lebron's non-posting ass would be much easier and a more predictable up-and-down driver

[Manny98]

What a post 10/10 :applause:

LeBron > MJ the truth is becoming clearer by the day

[3ball]

What a post 10/10 :applause:

LeBron > MJ the truth is becoming clearer by the day
10/10?

go read #8 in the OP and you might want to revise your statement

[coin24]

What a post 10/10 :applause:

LeBron > MJ the truth is becoming clearer by the day



Expected from someone who thinks spam is better than shrimp or fish. Seems you prefer the poor mans version

[Da_Realist]

Expected from someone who thinks spam is better than shrimp or fish. Seems you prefer the poor mans version

:oldlol:

[SpaceJam2]

DeMar DeJorzdan


:lol

[SpaceJam2]

Here's the main one

https://i.postimg.cc/ZRdjC2Yp/leader.png

[TheCorporation]

What a post 10/10 :applause:

LeBron > MJ the truth is becoming clearer by the day

+1

[Full Court]

+1

And yet even DeRozan (MJ-Lite) is better than Lebron, as evidenced by the two times they played this year, in which DeRozan completely owned Lebron's soul. A total sonning.

[Hey Yo]

0/22

Update on Curry:

4-55.... so that's 5 finals appearances with only 4 FMVP votes, the same amount James got in 2015 even though the Cavs lost.

[kawhileonard2]

These are a few.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459570

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495113-Vassilis-Spanoulis-Giannis-Antetokounmpo-s-And-Luka-Doncic-s-Idol-Retired
https://www.espn.com/olympics/wbc2006/news/story?id=2568543

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495940-Lebron-with-Shaq-2nd-round-exit-Giannis-with-Middleton-a-Title

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?495955-Giannis-just-blasted-those-who-join-super-teams-in-post-conference-interview

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493982-Devin-Booker-Vs-Lebron-James-who-is-better-currently

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496253-Lebron-won-2-bronze-medals-for-the-United-States-of-America-How

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496256-Lebron-with-Tim-Duncan-Bronze-Medal-in-Olympics-Vince-with-KG-Gold-Medal

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496255-Lebron-with-Carlos-Boozer-No-Playoffs-Deron-Williams-with-Carlos-Boozer-WCF

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496549-Lebron-stacking-the-deck-in-2022-because-he-is-afraid-of-Devin-Booker

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492941-1-Title-in-11-Years-for-the-Franchise-that-you-originally-played-for


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496831-times-when-each-top-10-player-all-time-Lost-when-they-were-expected-to-win

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?486706-Rob-Parker-LeBron-is-the-FFOAT

Record against teams with an SRS of 5.0 or higher.
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497187-Record-against-teams-with-an-SRS-of-5-0-or-higher



Not 3, not 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 or Playoff Mode Activated or A Storm is Coming
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?494319-Not-3-not-4-5-6-7-8-or-Playoff-Mode-Activated-or-A-Storm-is-Coming/page2


Playoff Mode: ACTIVATED
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?473762-Playoff-Mode-ACTIVATED



Lowest Scoring Supporting Cast Overall Playoffs
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?463869-Lowest-Scoring-Supporting-Cast-Overall-Playoffs/page3


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499837-Greatest-floor-raise-of-all-time/page2
Lebron played with Shaq who won league mvp and 3 finals mvp's and lost in round 2. Lebron played with Peak Duncan who had won 2 league mvp's and 3 finals mvp's and won bronze medal. Lebron played with Peak Wade who won finals mvp and got outplayed by Jason Terry. Lebron played with Derrick Rose who won mvp under age 30 which was the same as Kevin Durant who won mvp under 30 while both were on Golden State and Cleveland. Lebron played with mulitple PER leaders as well and now Russell Westbrook a league mvp winner and more triple doubles than Oscar Robertson. Yet despite all of that Lebron lost with all of them.


Jarrett Allen vs Gobert and Jarrett Allen vs Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499786-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Gobert-and-Jarrett-Allen-vs-Lebron



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500431-Lakers-were-1-in-Preseason-Odds-in-2021-and-Suns-were-14
Was #1 in Preseason odds and lost to a 14th seed in odds

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2021_preseason_odds.html

And Devin Booker walked them down in the playoffs with Devin outplaying Lebron. :confusedshrug:



http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500416-Why-did-Pelinka-surround-Lebron-with-a-bullshit-roster
He has peak Anthony Davis, the best player on the 2020 squad and the reason the Lakers did anything as the 2019 Lakers missed the playoffs and 2021 Lakers lost in round 1 when AD wasn't around. He has Prime Melo who won a scoring title and all time leader in scoring for the Olympics. He has Dwight Howard a 3x DPOY and a guy who beat Lebron without HCA. He has Westbrook who is the modern day Oscar Robertson and also won league mvp along with average a Triple Double 4 years in a row. He also has Rondo who is a hall of famer.





Why didn't he play it against Dwight Howard in 2009 when Dwight was dominating http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?459570-How-is-it-even-possible-to-lose-to-Dwight-Howard-in-a-series-with-HCA/page10? Or against Duncan or KG or Dirk? Why did he run away from KD a guy at his position?
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?489748-When-KD-and-Lebron-go-head-to-head

Why didn't he do **** against Booker in the playoffs as well?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?496095-Devin-Booker-put-up-47-his-playoff-career-high-on-Lebron


Devin Booker broke Lebron
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500264-Devin-Booker-broke-Lebron&p=14500724




http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500440-Russell-Westbrook-leading-the-league-in-Triple-Doubles-Thus-far-in-2022-Season
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/triple-double-leaders-2021-2022-stats



Expected Championships Won and Titles Over Expected
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?500379-Expected-Championships-Won-and-Titles-Over-Expected/page3&p=14503600



Top 50 All-Time List - Shot Clock Era = #1
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?497028-Top-50-All-Time-List-Shot-Clock-Era-1&p=14426360&viewfull=1#post14426360

[Spurs m8]

Bumping 2 year old threads.

Damage control and so sad and insecure