***the ultimate RINGs Guide*** ~ olympic style

[tpols]

i see there is still some confusion here , with regards to the question "which rings should count and which shouldn't?" in comparisons .. and in honor of the Olympics goin on right now.. i bring to ISH ring counting, olympic style ..


for career rankings only, titles w/ ..



Gold = superstar impact*
silver = all star impact*
bronze = role player impact*



Gold medal is winner and each subsequent medal below tie breaker..


Russell - 11 Gold
MJ - 6 Gold
Magic - 5 Gold
Kareem - 4 Gold, 2 silver
Duncan - 4 gold, 1 silver
Kobe - 4 Gold, 1 silver
Shaq - 3 Gold, 1 silver
Lebron - 3 Gold
Bird - 3 Gold
Wilt - 2 Gold


damn ... that actually looks like a solid list.
what you say, ish




http://i.imgur.com/SiN92.gif









*superstar impact is defined as having a top 3 playoff run for the year in question. Making 1st team all nba (top 5 player) may also be acceptable, but restrictions apply. All star impact, is simply had you made the all star or 2nd/3rd all nba team and played at that level whilst winning in the playoffs, and role player impact is robert horry level.

[warriorfan]

1.Russell
2.MJ
3.Magic
4.Kareem
5.Duncan
6.Kobe
7.Shaq
8.Lebron
9.Bird
10.Wilt

That is a pretty decent top 10 list

Good job, nice selection of criteria

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

A bit of context left out here, but its probably better than most topics and "rankings" I've seen here lately.

Kobe's contributions to the 2000-2002 Laker teams are generally underrated...even by posters like myself. Shaq was just so damn legendary you kinda forget that Kobe was a f*cking monster those years too.

BTW, KAJs "silver medals" are for 87 and 88 correct?

[SouBeachTalents]

A bit of context left out here, but its probably better than most topics and "rankings" I've seen here lately.

Kobe's contributions to the 2000-2002 Laker teams are generally underrated...even by posters like myself. Shaq was just so damn legendary you kinda forget that Kobe was a f*cking monster those years too.

BTW, KAJs "silver medals" are for 87 and 88 correct?

'88 should definitely be a bronze

[NBAGOAT]

list is fine and medals seem to be right. Still you didn't answer some other questions that are important like how many silvers is worth a gold or how many bronzes are worth a silver. Also Wilt at 10 just seems way too low but then again can't blame people here for hating on him.

[tpols]

A bit of context left out here, but its probably better than most topics and "rankings" I've seen here lately.

Kobe's contributions to the 2000-2002 Laker teams are generally underrated...even by posters like myself. Shaq was just so damn legendary you kinda forget that Kobe was a f*cking monster those years too.

BTW, KAJs "silver medals" are for 87 and 88 correct?

yup, im not that versed on anything from kaj, wilt russell etc time at all so i was just giving them the benefit of the doubt.. even if you change one to bronze he'd still be in the same place tho because the bronze would give him a tie breaker over duncan.

[tpols]

list is fine and medals seem to be right. Still you didn't answer some other questions that are important like how many silvers is worth a gold or how many bronzes are worth a silver. Also Wilt at 10 just seems way too low but then again can't blame people here for hating on him.

i dont think any # of silvers could truly equal a gold .. i was using as tie breaker but i guess 2-3 silvers per gold, and 2-3 bronzes per silver.. not sure

[Im Still Ballin]

Superstar impact is vague and honestly way too low expectation for GOAT tier players

There should be an additional class above Gold... The "FMVP" tier

The Finals MVP symbolizes that a player is the SOLE best individual in the championship series

[Hey Yo]

Can't have teammates both getting gold for 1 Finals win....Magic and KAJ....Shaq and Kobe.

Magic should get Silver for 1980 Finals and Kobe should get 1 gold for 2009 , 2 silver and 2 bronze for 2000 and 04.

It's for Finals performance only.

[NBAGOAT]

i dont think any # of silvers could truly equal a gold .. i was using as tie breaker but i guess 2-3 silvers per gold, and 2-3 bronzes per silver.. not sure

there's another problem you have that's mostly concerned with Wilt's ranking. You didn't mention guys like Havlicek and Pippen who must have like 1 or 2 gold/superstar seasons at least since I think both are clearly above just all star level. That could move them into the top 10 which isn't consensus at all.

[tpols]

Superstar impact is vague and honestly way too low expectation for GOAT tier players

There should be an additional class above Gold... The "FMVP" tier

The Finals MVP symbolizes that a player is the SOLE best individual in the championship series

there have been many finals MVPs that have had worse runs than guys who didnt win FMVP... Like whose going to take chauncey billups, tony parker, kawhi leonard, james worthy etc, over prime versions of Kareem, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Magic, etc all of whom had superstar runs with no FMVP.. i'm sure a fmvp clause could be added somehow just dont know how, but it seems to ignore impact for media narrative. Like last year iggy winning was a bronze or silver at best for the playoffs as a whole, where as curry was a Gold.. FMVP just came down to journalists selling their stories to me (they were the voters).

[Im Still Ballin]

Also, a "superstar impact" is seriously undermined by a teammate winning FMVP over said player

I have suggested a "Batman-Robin Meter" be implemented to get a better more accurate result

For instance;

LeBron has a 100% Batman Rating (3-3 FMVPs)

Kobe has a 60% Robin Rating (2-5 FMVPs)

Multiply Kobe's suggested 4 gold total by 0.6 for his Real World Total of 2.4 gold total

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Also, a "superstar impact" is seriously undermined by a teammate winning FMVP over said player

I have suggested a "Batman-Robin Meter" be implemented to get a better more accurate result

For instance;

LeBron has a 100% Batman Rating (3-3 FMVPs)

Kobe has a 60% Robin Rating (2-5 FMVPs)

Multiply Kobe's suggested 4 gold total by 0.6 for his Real World Total of 2.4 gold total

...and this is when threads go to shit.

What in the f*ck are you rambling on about? :lol

[aj1987]

Why don't you stick to doing this for the Finals and penalize players who played with other "gold" level players during the same season?

[Kblaze8855]

John Havlicek 7 seasons of his prime...playoff averages

24/9/4
27/8/3
26/9/8
25/10/6
27/8/6
24/5/5
27/6/6

4 of his 8 rings are in that stretch and for 3 of the other 4 rings he was a 17, 18, and 20 ppg player. Other season he was a rookie..and even then he was a 14/7 player who had 18 in game 7 to win a ring. He had 40/10/7 to close out the 68 finals. Hit big shots his whole career. He might well have 9 rings if not for getting hurt in 73 after leading the Celtics to 68 wins. He was at the top of his game. He set the still standing playoff record for made field goals that year when he dropped 54 on the Hawks. He was all D team 8 times...despite it not existing till he was 28 or 29.

He was coming off the bench to lead the team in scoring plenty of times as a rookie....was on his "Havlicek stole the ball!" heroics in I think his second or third year....was making playoff game winners already...and had 28/8/4 in the last game of his career:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI

Hes one of those guys downplayed only by people who were not around to see him play...which is kinda sad. He had good numbers...but by all accounts was more respected than just about anyone in sports.

Just saying is all.

[SouBeachTalents]

What would you guys give

'05 Manu
'08 KG
'08 Pierce
'16 Kyrie

Does anyone from the '04 Pistons get a gold?

[BallsOut]

i see there is still some confusion here , with regards to the question "which rings should count and which shouldn't?" in comparisons .. and in honor of the Olympics goin on right now.. i bring to ISH ring counting, olympic style ..


for career rankings only, titles w/ ..



Gold = superstar impact*
silver = all star impact*
bronze = role player impact*



Gold medal is winner and each subsequent medal below tie breaker..


Russell - 11 Gold
MJ - 6 Gold
Magic - 5 Gold
Kareem - 4 Gold, 2 silver
Duncan - 4 gold, 1 silver
Kobe - 4 Gold, 1 silver
Shaq - 3 Gold, 1 silver
Lebron - 3 Gold
Bird - 3 Gold
Wilt - 2 Gold


damn ... that actually looks like a solid list.
what you say, ish




http://i.imgur.com/SiN92.gif









*superstar impact is defined as having a top 3 playoff run for the year in question. Making 1st team all nba (top 5 player) may also be acceptable, but restrictions apply. All star impact, is simply had you made the all star or 2nd/3rd all nba team and played at that level whilst winning in the playoffs, and role player impact is robert horry level.

Excellent list. Although I would swap Lebron with Bird since Bird had a significantly better chance at winning "gold" in all his finals appearances vs 3/7 Lebron.

[Kblaze8855]

KG was all nba first team, 3rd in MVP voting, the DPOY, led the Celtics in playoff scoring and rebounds...and 4th quarter scoring. Hard not to call that superstar impact. Though some still try.

[SouBeachTalents]

Excellent list. Although I would swap Lebron with Bird since Bird had a significantly better chance at winning "gold" in all his finals appearances vs 3/7 Lebron.

LeBron never won a title with a Finals as bad as Bird's in '81

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1981-nba-finals-rockets-vs-celtics.html

Didn't even win FMVP

[tpols]

John Havlicek 7 seasons of his prime...playoff averages

24/9/4
27/8/3
26/9/8
25/10/6
27/8/6
24/5/5
27/6/6

4 of his 8 rings are in that stretch and for 3 of the other 4 rings he was a 17, 18, and 20 ppg player. Other season he was a rookie..and even then he was a 14/7 player who had 18 in game 7 to win a ring. He had 40/10/7 to close out the 68 finals. Hit big shots his whole career. He might well have 9 rings if not for getting hurt in 73 after leading the Celtics to 68 wins. He was at the top of his game. He set the still standing playoff record for made field goals that year when he dropped 54 on the Hawks. He was all D team 8 times...despite it not existing till he was 28 or 29.

He was coming off the bench to lead the team in scoring plenty of times as a rookie....was on his "Havlicek stole the ball!" heroics in I think his second or third year....was making playoff game winners already...and had 28/8/4 in the last game of his career:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vekb4RhplI

Hes one of those guys downplayed only by people who were not around to see him play...which is kinda sad. He had good numbers...but by all accounts was more respected than just about anyone in sports.

Just saying is all.

that guy is probably severely underrated all time .. i know guys back then got lots of stats though, so maybe he wasnt always top 3 playoff performer or top 5 player in the league? dont know..

but its not perfect, just an idea

[ArbitraryWater]

Too broad... Kobe's contribution to the 2002 title, for example, is several tiers behind LeBron's 2012, 2016 ones.. besides the fact that none of his runs touch those two, or he's also been almost always shit when they didn't win (when did he ever play well and it wasn't enough?), same cannot be said for 2009, 2014, 2015, or even 2010 LeBron.

[bobopenguin]

Also, a "superstar impact" is seriously undermined by a teammate winning FMVP over said player

I have suggested a "Batman-Robin Meter" be implemented to get a better more accurate result

For instance;

LeBron has a 100% Batman Rating (3-3 FMVPs)

Kobe has a 60% Robin Rating (2-5 FMVPs)

Multiply Kobe's suggested 4 gold total by 0.6 for his Real World Total of 2.4 gold total

lol wtf is this?
bron stan destroyed another quality thread.

[tpols]

What would you guys give
'16 Kyrie


I would say kyrie this year has a moderate case for Gold run under the clause "top 3 player in the playoffs" .. as he clearly outplayed everyone from the East except his teammate bron, and then thoroughly dominated everyone from golden state.. WB and KD choked too hard while kyrie was too clutch for me to put them over him.



'05 Manu


manu imo has a slightly weaker case for Gold.. would be harder to make .. because his averages dont look that crazy.. but when you dig a little deeper, 124 ortg, 104 drtg, +20 ?? he doubled duncan in that.. was crazy clutch and did it against great competition. I'm really tempted to give him the Gold (w/ duncan of course) under top 3 player in playoffs article but its not a super strong case.



'08 KG


Definite Gold by every measure.



'08 Pierce


easy silver .. and another case study refuting the batman / robin theory.



Does anyone from the '04 Pistons get a gold?


this is hard, because you probably have to have KG, Shaq and Duncan as top 3 playoff performers, so its hard to make a case for big ben being top 3 in the playoffs impact wise and he just missed the cut for all NBA first team.. but he did..

Anchor the greatest defense of all time.
Posted defensive rpm that were even better than KG / Timmy.
Posted a drtg of 87.. seriously .. lowest ive ever come across.

according to the rules i cant give him a gold, just a strong silver, but it succks because if a guy like Steve Nash ever won a ring anchoring the greatest offense of all time, yall would easily give him a Gold, yet Ben does same thing on other side of the ball but nobody even acknowledges what he did.

it seems like the pistons players didnt really get the recognition they deserved until 2 years after they won a ring and year after b2b Finals when Rip, Chauncey, Sheed, and Big Ben all made the all star team at the same time .. the 04 team impact wise mightve had 4 silvers..