LeBron is a better finisher than Jordan

[JohnMax]

Lebron James

2008-09 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2008-09&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 401/553 72.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 63/152 41.4 FG%
Mid-Range: 193/525 36.8 FG%

2009-10 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2009-10&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 400/537 74.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 51/120 42.5 FG%
Mid-Range: 188/484 38.8 FG%

2010-11 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2010-11&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 358/497 72.0 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 91/222 41.0 FG%
Mid-Range: 217/487 44.6 FG%

2011-12 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2011-12&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 309/415 74.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 70/161 43.5 FG%
Mid-Range: 188/444 42.3 FG%

2012-13 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2012-13&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 411/541 76.0 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 77/156 49.4 FG%
Mid-Range: 174/403 43.2 FG%

2013-14 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2013-14&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 455/581 78.3 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 70/139 50.4 FG%
Mid-Range: 126/327 38.5 FG%

2014-15 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 317/455 69.7 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 60/142 42.3 FG%
Mid-Range: 127/343 37.0 FG%

2015-16 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2544/stats/shooting/?Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area:478/684 69.9 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 54/135 40.0 FG%
Mid-Range:118/315 37.5 FG%

http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

[JohnMax]

Michael Jordan

1992 Shot Chart (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415733)
1991-92: 53 games
At Rim: 233/357 65.3 FG%
In Paint (Overall): 300/555 54.1 FG%
Mid-Range: 336/645 52.1 FG%

1990-1992 Shot Chart (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950)
1989-90: 35 games
1990-91: 44 games
1991-92: 47 games
126 games total
At Rim: 629/847 74.3 FG%
In Paint (Overall): 786/1333 59.0 FG%
Midrange: 793/1552 51.1 FG%

1996-97 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 192/371 51.8 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 95/186 51.1 FG%
Midrange: 588/1,202 48.9 FG%

1997-98 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 281/457 61.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 95/210 45.2 FG%
Midrange: 476/1,101 43.2 FG%

2001-02 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 104/181 57.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 64/187 34.2 FG%
Midrange: 373/903 41.3 FG%

2002-03 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=2002-03&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 137/230 59.6 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 69/186 37.1 FG%
Midrange: 457/1,056 43.3 FG%

http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

[Lebronxrings]

better player too

[RoundMoundOfReb]

No doubt. LeBron is arguably the goat rim finisher for a non-big.

[Sarcastic]

Just like Steve Kerr is a better 3 point shooter than Steph. 45.4% > 44.4℅.

Context obviously means nothing.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Just like Steve Kerr is a better 3 point shooter than Steph. 45.4% > 44.4℅.

Context obviously means nothing.

Kerr did it on lower volume and not off the dribble.

LeBron has a worse outside shot than MJ (defenders play him to drive more), and more attempts yet still better numbers.

MJ is better than LeBron at basically all other aspects of scoring, but finishing at the rim I'd give to LeBron.

[bobopenguin]

entire ISHers are literally laughing at bron stans right now. :lol

[ArbitraryWater]

Just like Steve Kerr is a better 3 point shooter than Steph. 45.4% > 44.4℅.

Context obviously means nothing.

not really

LeBron is quite literally the better finisher/at the rim player..

[Sarcastic]

Since you're posting absolute peak Lebron stats, mind posting Jordan's peak stats as well?

[ArbitraryWater]

Since you're posting absolute peak Lebron stats, mind posting Jordan's peak stats as well?

try to find them :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

try to find them :oldlol:

Well if they are not available, then a fair comparison can't be made, therefore this thread is horse shit.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Well if they are not available, then a fair comparison can't be made, therefore this thread is horse shit.
90-92 isn't peak MJ?

[Sarcastic]

90-92 isn't peak MJ?

OK well Lebron doesn't have anything close to 59℅ in the paint, therefore Jordan > Lebron finishing.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

OK well Lebron doesn't have anything close to 59℅ in the paint, therefore Jordan > Lebron finishing.

First off, I said "at the rim" not in the paint.

Secondly, Jordan's paint numbers include his at the rim numbers. LeBron's don't.
If you do the math you get:

32.3% for his in the paint not at the rim #s.

So LeBron's are still much better.

[CuterThanRubio]

OK well Lebron doesn't have anything close to 59℅ in the paint, therefore Jordan > Lebron finishing.

"Finishing" is a colloquial term for scoring at the rim with a layup or dunk, and LeBron is superior in that category according to these statistical comparisons, why are you having so much trouble accepting that?

92 Jordan is widely accepted as peak level, and the 92 Bulls are often favored over the 96 team, DEAL!

[Sarcastic]

First off, I said "at the rim" not in the paint.

Secondly, Jordan's paint numbers include his at the rim numbers. LeBron's don't.
If you do the math you get:

32.3% for his in the paint not at the rim #s.

So LeBron's are still much better.


Are you factoring in positional difference? Just like you wouldn't compare ypc of a wide receiver and a tight end without taking position into account, you shouldn't do it for a SG and SF.

[CuterThanRubio]

Are you factoring in positional difference? Just like you wouldn't compare ypc of a wide receiver and a tight end without taking position into account, you shouldn't do it for a SG and SF.


https://media.riffsy.com/images/3b1c30f10675b764a9a210fbe74d0336/raw

[ShawkFactory]

Are you factoring in positional difference? Just like you wouldn't compare ypc of a wide receiver and a tight end without taking position into account, you shouldn't do it for a SG and SF.
It's a fair point, but Jordan was particularly adept at attacking the rim and finishing. More so than anyone at his position aside from perhaps Wade.

He attacked the rim more than most SFs did.

It'd be more like comparing the YPC of a 6-5 guy on the outside like Mike Evans and a TE like Graham or Gronk.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Are you factoring in positional difference? Just like you wouldn't compare ypc of a wide receiver and a tight end without taking position into account, you shouldn't do it for a SG and SF.

They play what are arguably the two most interchangeable positions in basketball.

But positions are irrelevant when comparing a specific skillset. you don't get charity points for being small. Shaq is a better rim finisher than LeBron even though he's a center.

[bdreason]

It was a lot easier to defend the rim in the 90's.

[OldSchoolBBall]

90-92 isn't peak MJ?

In terms of strictly finishing, I'd say 1990 was his last peak year. His finishing peak was probably 1988-1990, 1991 at the latest. Regardless, the numbers are meaningless, because Lebron "finishes" in wide open lanes with no shotblocking big men inside and no physicality allowed. Put peak MJ in the league from '08-today and he's finishing at a 75% rate too.

[Indian guy]

Not really an argument. The numbers are heavily skewed in his favor for one and the whole "tougher back in the day" talk simply does't fly when league-wide efficiency has remained the same, FT rates have actually gone down, and most importantly, no illegal defense. It has been a lot easier to take away driving lanes post-2001 with teams' ability to overload the strong side and shade. The paint was more packed back in the day, but the perimeter is infinitely more crowded today since you are no longer forced to stick to your man. The "wide open lanes" is just ridiculous hyperbole. Not remotely supported by any on-court evidence. Spacing, if anything, has been worse post-zone legalization..

LeBron shot a career-best at-rim percentage of .792(80% in RS) in the 2014 playoffs while going up against Garnett, Hibbert, Duncan and Splitter. 2 of those 4 ranked in the top 5 in DRPM in 2014. 3 of them ranked in the top 10. 3 of LeBron's 4 opponents in the playoffs that season also ranked in the top 5 defensively. So let's stop pretending he wasn't going to beast against BIGS of past eras too.

[Round Mound]

No doubt. LeBron is arguably the goat rim finisher for a non-big.

Sir Charles is

[Im Still Ballin]

Sir Charles is
Do you consider Charles a SF

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Sir Charles is

Also very arguable. If you consider him a non-big. He's a PF though.

[Round Mound]

Do you consider Charles a SF

Can play both. PF-SF

[Sarcastic]

Sir Charles is

https://media.riffsy.com/images/528603cd0971f339006623d3d169a3fc/raw

[Round Mound]

https://media.riffsy.com/images/528603cd0971f339006623d3d169a3fc/raw

:confusedshrug: Its the truth.

[JebronLames]

If LeBron got the calls Ordan got, he would be shooting 80 % at the rim

[Pointguard]

I'm with Sarcastic here. If Lebron sees DH or Duncan at the rim he's going to pass the ball - even Kobe was much more likely to go harder at those guys than Lebron and YouTube will back me up. Jordan is going hard at bigger, meaner and better defenders like Hakeem, Mutombo and Eaton. Better is not defined by numbers but by opposition. I don't see Lebron trying to get to the rim a lot against the bad boys or the rough and tumble Knicks. DJ and DH are timid guys with the ball but can lead the league in FG%. Hakeem was superior at the rim but never approached some of their FG% numbers.

[PHILA]

Sir Charles is
Yes, Barkley is an outlier. He likely shot over 80% at the rim for multiple seasons. After all he was the all time leader in 2 Pt. FG% for some time. Only 6'4 3/4 tall, but he used his body well and had very strong and explosive legs. Plus he went up strong with two hands almost every single time, which would greatly reduce the amount of point blank misses.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10300998&postcount=11

[Round Mound]

Yes, Barkley is an outlier. He likely shot over 80% at the rim for multiple seasons. After all he was the all time leader in 2 Pt. FG% for some time. Only 6'4 3/4 tall, but he used his body well and had very strong and explosive legs. Plus he went up strong with two hands almost every single time, which would greatly reduce the amount of point blank misses.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10300998&postcount=11

He also has great touch around the basket. Him and Shaq are the best at the rim in the las 30 years of the game. Chuck lead the NBA in 2 PT. FG% 5 times in a row. Unbelievable at that size :bowdown:

BTW: Great stats! where do u find them?

[PHILA]

He also has great touch around the basket. Him and Shaq are the best at the rim in the las 30 years of the game. Chuck lead the NBA in 2 PT. FG% 5 times in a row. Unbelievable at that size :bowdown:

BTW: Great stats! where do u find them?

LeBron stats were on mysynergysports.com, but the website no longer works. Shaq numbers are on NBA.com (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/406/stats/shooting/?Season=2000-01&SeasonType=Regular%20Season), he peaked in 2001 at 77.4%. The Barkley stats are from as many of his available games I could find on the internet from 1988-96.

[Real14]

It was a lot easier to defend the rim in the 90's.
end thread.

[dankok8]

Lebron and Barkley being as good as Shaq finishing at the rim is simply astounding but they are. I think their % is slightly boosted from transition baskets but still.

[ClipperRevival]

Pretty fair argument considering you left out MJ's seasons prior to age 29, when he was at his peak as a rim attacker and even using his Wizard years. Lol.

You LeBron fans can't be this simple minded by just looking at stats at face value. Let me ask you LeBron fans this, describe how/why he was a better finisher.

[ClipperRevival]

Michael Jordan

1992 Shot Chart (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415733)
1991-92: 53 games
At Rim: 233/357 65.3 FG%
In Paint (Overall): 300/555 54.1 FG%
Mid-Range: 336/645 52.1 FG%

1990-1992 Shot Chart (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317950)
1989-90: 35 games
1990-91: 44 games
1991-92: 47 games
126 games total
At Rim: 629/847 74.3 FG%
In Paint (Overall): 786/1333 59.0 FG%
Midrange: 793/1552 51.1 FG%

1996-97 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1996-97&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 192/371 51.8 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 95/186 51.1 FG%
Midrange: 588/1,202 48.9 FG%

1997-98 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=1997-98&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 281/457 61.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 95/210 45.2 FG%
Midrange: 476/1,101 43.2 FG%

2001-02 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=2001-02&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 104/181 57.5 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 64/187 34.2 FG%
Midrange: 373/903 41.3 FG%

2002-03 (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/893/stats/shooting/?Season=2002-03&SeasonType=Regular%20Season)
Restricted Area: 137/230 59.6 FG%
In The Paint (Non-RA): 69/186 37.1 FG%
Midrange: 457/1,056 43.3 FG%

http://i.imgur.com/79c7dOg.png

:facepalm

Where are MJs 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990 and 1991 seasons? You know, MJ at his physical peak when he attacked with reckless abandon? How the fu'k do you expect anyone to take your argument seriously with your biased, selectively use of stats? You Bron fans are so desparate to catch some of MJ's shine.

[ClipperRevival]

"Finishing" is a colloquial term for scoring at the rim with a layup or dunk, and LeBron is superior in that category according to these statistical comparisons, why are you having so much trouble accepting that?

92 Jordan is widely accepted as peak level, and the 92 Bulls are often favored over the 96 team, DEAL!

The discussion here is rim attacking and you are best at doing that at your physical peak. By 1992, MJ was no longer that. He might've been a better player in 1992 over his younger self because he was smarter, improved his overall game and just knew how to win but young MJ was a monster as a rim attacker.

[ClipperRevival]

Watch Lebron's finishing highlights, almost all of them are:

1) In transition when he takes off one leg.
2) When he turns the corner at the top of the key and has a clear path to the basket, is allowed to build momentum and jump off one feet.

LeBron might be the GOAT at #2. And that is a big deal. But the guy was primarily a linear finisher off one leg. Therefore, his finishing abilities were limited. Bball is not played in a straight line. Everything else, MJ sh'ts on LeBron. MJ created attacking opportunities where LeBron couldn't because he was much stiffer than MJ and lacked that fluidity, quickness, etc.

On the flip side, watch an MJ attacking video. You'll see every imaginable way a guy can attack and finish. One feet, two feet, amazingly quick explosion off a quick gather, baseline, hang in the air, use of both hands, variety of launch points while in the air, going over top of bigs, etc.

[CAstill]

Sir Charles is

Nope. Peak Kemp was. No one better. Not even close. Kemp down the lane or on a fastbreak is automatic. No matter the competition.

[diamenz]

Watch Lebron's finishing highlights, almost all of them are:

1) In transition when he takes off one leg.
2) When he turns the corner at the top of the key and has a clear path to the basket, is allowed to build momentum and jump off one feet.

LeBron might be the GOAT at #2. And that is a big deal. But the guy was primarily a linear finisher off one leg. Therefore, his finishing abilities were limited. Bball is not played in a straight line. Everything else, MJ sh'ts on LeBron. MJ created attacking opportunities where LeBron couldn't because he was much stiffer than MJ and lacked that fluidity, quickness, etc.

On the flip side, watch an MJ attacking video. You'll see every imaginable way a guy can attack and finish. One feet, two feet, amazingly quick explosion off a quick gather, baseline, hang in the air, use of both hands, variety of launch points while in the air, going over top of bigs, etc.

exactly. exactly.

[FKAri]

Who said this? Madonna? :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

This is the GOAT finisher.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGLaKfEyRL4

[plowking]

Somehow Jordan is a better finisher and apparently the best midrange player ever despite Bron and him shooting the same percentage from the field.
Something doesn't add up. :oldlol:
Don't tell Jordan fans that though. :oldlol:

[Da_Realist]

Somehow Jordan is a better finisher and apparently the best midrange player ever despite Bron and him shooting the same percentage from the field.
Something doesn't add up. :oldlol:
Don't tell Jordan fans that though. :oldlol:

Somehow Lebron fans think the only things that matter in basketball are stats without ever wanting to discuss the myriad of factors that affect those stats. A ton of robotic dudes that can't think for themselves so they need the boxscores to tell them everything.

Take a guy driving into open lanes and having time to gather his steps and equate his production with a guy that needs to dunk over Ewing and Mutombo or maneuver around 3 guys camped in the lane just because they both shoot 49% is dumb.

[plowking]

Somehow Lebron fans think the only things that matter in basketball are stats without ever wanting to discuss the myriad of factors that affect those stats. A ton of robotic dudes that can't think for themselves so they need the boxscores to tell them everything.

Take a guy driving into open lanes and having time to gather his steps and equate his production with a guy that needs to dunk over Ewing and Mutombo or maneuver around 3 guys camped in the lane just because they both shoot 49% is dumb.

Again, we get told how defenses sag off, sit in the paint against Bron and allow him to shoot freely. But now we are told that somehow LeBron gets free lanes too.

Apparently Bron just doesn't have anyone defending him at all. :oldlol:

[feyki]

Beside of numbers , Jordan was far more acrobatic finisher and Lebron was much stronger at the rim ; like train .

[Da_Realist]

Again, we get told how defenses sag off, sit in the paint against Bron and allow him to shoot freely. But now we are told that somehow LeBron gets free lanes too.

Apparently Bron just doesn't have anyone defending him at all. :oldlol:

They are leaving him open by design because he can't shoot but that doesn't have anything to do with his finishing ability. They used to do the same thing to MJ and he still got to the rim and caused damage because he didn't need to gather his steps or have a clear path into the lane. That's why he was a better finisher.

FG % only judges what shots go in against the shots taken. It doesn't take into account the path to get there or the resistence you face at the rim. MJ took more risks and made more impossible shots than LeBron would think to even try. Lebron is much more prone to passing out or settling for long jumpshots than MJ was. So since Lebron mostly only takes sure thing dunks and layups, his fg% will be high. But that hides the fact he is more limited getting to the rim and not as creative with the ball at the rim as MJ was.

[plowking]

They are leaving him open by design because he can't shoot but that doesn't have anything to do with his finishing ability. They used to do the same thing to MJ and he still got to the rim and caused damage because he didn't need to gather his steps or have a clear path into the lane. That's why he was a better finisher.

FG % only judges what shots go in against the shots taken. It doesn't take into account the path to get there or the resistence you face at the rim. MJ took more risks and made more impossible shots than LeBron would think to even try. Lebron is much more prone to passing out or settling for long jumpshots than MJ was. So since Lebron mostly only takes sure thing dunks and layups, his fg% will be high. But that hides the fact he is more limited getting to the rim and not as creative with the ball at the rim as MJ was.

Yes... Smaller players are more creative and get to the rim easier due to their quickness. Regardless, Bron bullies his way to the ring, takes better shots, and makes more of them. Not to mention he gets hit far more than Jordan going to the ring, and gets a shitload less calls as well.

Resistance to the rim? Lebron gets more than anyone ever. Freaking clueless. That is the whole gameplan against LeBron.

[Da_Realist]

Yes... Smaller players are more creative and get to the rim easier due to their quickness. Regardless, Bron bullies his way to the ring, takes better shots, and makes more of them. Not to mention he gets hit far more than Jordan going to the ring, and gets a shitload less calls as well.

Resistance to the rim? Lebron gets more than anyone ever. Freaking clueless. That is the whole gameplan against LeBron.

He takes better shots because he gets better shots. Defenders are kept out of the lane. MJ played when defenders were encouraged to stay in the lane.

[Indian guy]

Somehow Jordan is a better finisher and apparently the best midrange player ever despite Bron and him shooting the same percentage from the field.
Something doesn't add up. :oldlol:
Don't tell Jordan fans that though. :oldlol:

Because MJ is the GOAT, his fans have a hard time conceding anything. As if he became GOAT because he did everything better than everybody else :rolleyes:. This is a topic that's simply not debatable. Especially for anyone who actually watched them both play extensively. LeBron's entire game, unlike Jordan's, was built around interior baskets. Defenses were completely geared to stop him from 1) getting inside and 2) if he did get inside, to prevent him from scoring. The fact that he still shot the percentages that he did on high volume, in an era with no illegal defense to boot, is a testament to what kind of ability he possessed. He had absolutely no weaknesses. He was a great finisher off either hand, GOAT leaper off one feet while being pretty good off two, all in a PF's body with an unmatchable combination of speed, strength and explosiveness. Nobody had LeBron's body. Plenty had a similar body to MJ's, although not quite as good, but there has certainly never been anything like LeBron. So when the numbers clearly support him as the game's best finisher, you just shut up and move on.

If MJ's outside game was anything like LeBron's, he wouldn't have had half the career that he did. At the end of the day, he was still very reliant on his jump shot to be a high volume scorer. There's only so much you can do inside with a 6'6, 210 lb frame. And he didn't even weigh 200 pounds during his peak athletic seasons (88-90).

[andgar923]

Because MJ is the GOAT, his fans have a hard time conceding anything. As if he became GOAT because he did everything better than everybody else :rolleyes:. This is a topic that's simply not debatable. Especially for anyone who actually watched them both play extensively. LeBron's entire game, unlike Jordan's, was built around interior baskets. Defenses were completely geared to stop him from 1) getting inside and 2) if he did get inside, to prevent him from scoring. The fact that he still shot the percentages that he did on high volume, in an era with no illegal defense to boot, is a testament to what kind of ability he possessed. He had absolutely no weaknesses. He was a great finisher off either hand, GOAT leaper off one feet while being pretty good off two, all in a PF's body with an unmatchable combination of speed, strength and explosiveness. Nobody had LeBron's body. Plenty had a similar body to MJ's, although not quite as good, but there has certainly never been anything like LeBron. So when the numbers clearly support him as game's best finisher, why is that so hard for some people to accept?

If MJ's outside game was anything like LeBron's, he wouldn't have had half the career that he did. At the end of the day, he was still very reliant on his jump shot to be a high volume scorer. There's only so much you can do inside with a 6'6, 210 lb frame. And he didn't even weigh 200 pounds during his peak athletic seasons (88-90).
Lol

[tpols]

the main thing that holds Lebron back finishing compared to jordan is hes awful off two feet .. thats the main reason he doesnt/cant challenge big guys like MJ, and instead has to wait for a sliver of day light to get them on his hip so he can toss them with the off arm and go up off one foot.

[hateraid]

I can't find the link with Lebron with his hands on his hips in the clouds and all the NBA stars reaching up at him. can someone link that thread?

[Pointguard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mc7u58-6eOw

There is absolutely no chance of seeing a Lebron video to compare. Jordan is just way more agile and was way more determined. If Jordan saw a bigger obstacle he went directly at it. He breaks a backboard while going over someone. Its like asking if Mayweather was more aggressive than young Mike Tyson. Or asking if aggression has anything to do with finishing? Jordan lived to dissect an offense. Lebron takes what's given, is very opportunistic.

Just look at videos.

[Da_Realist]

Jordan lived to dissect an offense. Lebron takes what's given, is very opportunistic.

Very good description. :applause:

[nba_55]

Again, we get told how defenses sag off, sit in the paint against Bron and allow him to shoot freely. But now we are told that somehow LeBron gets free lanes too.

Apparently Bron just doesn't have anyone defending him at all. :oldlol:
:lol :lol :lol

[CuterThanRubio]

The discussion here is rim attacking and you are best at doing that at your physical peak. By 1992, MJ was no longer that. He might've been a better player in 1992 over his younger self because he was smarter, improved his overall game and just knew how to win but young MJ was a monster as a rim attacker.

No, the thread is titled "LeBron is a better finisher than Jordan"

People are saying that basketball is not played in a straight line but when you are the strongest guy on the court you can afford to power your way directly to the basket, and the numbers show that LeBron is great at doing that.

LeBron can score in a variety of ways near the basket, yes he is more dominant with a head of steam jumping off of one leg, who isn't, but he also has a better handle than Jordan did and can break defenders down and score with ease with very little breathing room.


They have different approaches, and they are both highly effective, but according to the statistics we have LeBron "finishes" at a greater percentage.

See that, its called logical thinking.

Try it!

[ArbitraryWater]

Are you factoring in positional difference? Just like you wouldn't compare ypc of a wide receiver and a tight end without taking position into account, you shouldn't do it for a SG and SF.

that is so irrelevant when it comes to this :oldlol:

[NBAGOAT]

Im guessing MJ fans think he's a vastly superior finisher to Karl Malone too. Yes he's a big man but he has similar advantages to Lebron. The raw size and athleticism part of the game is underrated now. Most of great finishers besides MJ are big men who are pretty uncreative around the rim like Shaq, Barkley, and Malone. Also, there should be a distinction between slashing and finishing.

[Indian guy]

btw, :oldlol: @ this notion that the guy with the 5th highest ppg in NBA history, who possessed a below-average jump shot for much of his career and whose primary means of scoring was inside, being some kind of "opportunistic" shot taker when it comes to that area of the court. The stupidity is boundless, honestly. I guess when the facts are heavily stacked against you, this is the type of baseless garbage people come up with.

[Sarcastic]

btw, :oldlol: @ this notion that the guy with the 5th highest ppg in NBA history, who possessed a below-average jump shot for much of his career and whose primary means of scoring was inside, being some kind of "opportunistic" shot taker when it comes to that area of the court. The stupidity is boundless, honestly. I guess when the facts are heavily stacked against you, this is the type of baseless garbage people come up with.


I mean they said similar things about Jordan when he was young, and yet he led the league in scoring every year. How many Ordan jokes does this board make alone. How does a guy score so much without a jump shot, and who is also smaller?

[Pointguard]

btw, :oldlol: @ this notion that the guy with the 5th highest ppg in NBA history, who possessed a below-average jump shot for much of his career and whose primary means of scoring was inside, being some kind of "opportunistic" shot taker when it comes to that area of the court. The stupidity is boundless, honestly. I guess when the facts are heavily stacked against you, this is the type of baseless garbage people come up with.
Because I think you are too much of a whimp to speak directly and too stupid to understand a comparison... He was compared to Jordan who created opportunities to do remarkable things to overcome obstacles at the basket. Show us a video where you think Lebron is more creative, agile and shows MJ's will power then your statement above carries weight, surely even you know its a joke of a comparison - not that Lebron suffers at all in this area. But we know he's not Jordan. Nor will you find videos where he's going at bigger players with the same ferociousness as Jordan. This is not questionable, it speaks very loud and for itself.

[Indian guy]

Because I think you are too much of a whimp to speak directly

:wtf:

There are numerous people in this thread who have referred to LeBron being too selective with his shot attempts in the paint. I am not going to single out each one and especially not you, dumbass. You are and always will be on my IL, because I've never read anything out of you that isn't trash. I'll just spare this one last reply to you and move on.


He was compared to Jordan who created opportunities to do remarkable things to overcome obstacles at the basket. Show us a video where you think Lebron is more creative, agile and shows MJ's will power then your statement above carries weight,

What does any of this even mean? These are just blanket statements that prove absolutely nothing. The only thing that matters is the bottom line - who was better at putting the ball in the hole once they got inside? The answers is clearly, as all facts indicate, LeBron. Your style, creativity, mentality and dick size is all irrelevant here. Only results matter. And the results are on LeBron's side. So is common sense. If you are ambidextrous, have a 40+ inch vertical, have the size and strength of a PF yet move like a guard, it's going to be ridiculously hard for a 6'6, 200-215 pound guy to be better than you inside.

I also can't believe anyone could be questioning LeBron's heart, willingness or ferociousness at finishing when that was pretty much his entire game his first go round as a Cavalier. All he did was put his head down and attack the basket.

[SexSymbol]

He struggles at the rim with zone implemented and is horrible from close range with tight D. Also when watching the games you see that he has substantually more open layups than MJ ever had.

MJ never had these struggles.

[Papaya Petee]

He takes better shots because he gets better shots. Defenders are kept out of the lane. MJ played when defenders were encouraged to stay in the lane.

Defenders are all told to sag off LeBron because his "inability" to shoot, but you claim they are kept out of the lane.

So LeBron just plays 5v0 on offense? Where do the defenders go? :roll:

[Da_Realist]

Defenders are all told to sag off LeBron because his "inability" to shoot, but you claim they are kept out of the lane.

So LeBron just plays 5v0 on offense? Where do the defenders go? :roll:

Are all 5 defenders sagging into the lane when it is illegal to do so?

[Hey Yo]

He struggles at the rim with zone implemented and is horrible from close range with tight D. Also when watching the games you see that he has substantually more open layups than MJ ever had.

MJ never had these struggles.
"The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately.

"If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba

[tpols]

Defenders are all told to sag off LeBron because his "inability" to shoot, but you claim they are kept out of the lane.

So LeBron just plays 5v0 on offense? Where do the defenders go? :roll:

i dont think its lebrons defender thats the problem.. its all of his teammates' defenders. In MJ's era, everybody pretty much had one foot in the paint.. while every team LeBron is on makes a focused effort to put shooting and spacing around him to create wider lanes and maximize his opportunities for attacking the basket.. idk why you guys dont consider this when comparing percentages with jordan.

[3ball]

"The subject was defense in the NBA, and Michael Jordan was speaking, although more about offense, especially his. We know few defenses could do anything about that.

But there was one that might be bothersome, the zone defense. It was the topic du jour at last month's All-Star Game, and Jordan was making an impassioned plea before the competition committee that had gathered to consider rules changes to enliven the NBA game. Jordan spoke passionately.

"If teams were able to play zone defenses, he said, he never would have had the career he did."

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba


Look at the date of your article - MJ made those comments in 2001 - at that time, everyone thought NBA would implement a PURE zone that allowed paint-camping, just like Jordan faced at North Carolina when he was POY over Hakeem and Ewing.

But when the new rules were implemented in 2005, the NBA banned paint-camping via defensive 3 seconds, and also hand-checking.

MJ thought these changes were the most impactful to date, which is why he said he'd score 100 points (http://uproxx.com/dimemag/2010/10/michael-jordan-if-i-played-today-i-could-have-scored-100-points/) under the new rules, and everyone agreed (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=183958).

[Pointguard]

:wtf:

There are numerous people in this thread who have referred to LeBron being too selective with his shot attempts in the paint. I am not going to single out each one and especially not you, dumbass. You are and always will be on my IL, because I've never read anything out of you that isn't trash. I'll just spare this one last reply to you and move on.

:lol I'm the only one that used the word "opportunistic" which you put in quotes so... so much for you being honest or direct.




What does any of this even mean? These are just blanket statements that prove absolutely nothing. The only thing that matters is the bottom line - who was better at putting the ball in the hole once they got inside? The answers is clearly, as all facts indicate, LeBron. Your style, creativity, mentality and dick size is all irrelevant here. Only results matter. And the results are on LeBron's side. So is common sense. If you are ambidextrous, have a 40+ inch vertical, have the size and strength of a PF yet move like a guard, it's going to be ridiculously hard for a 6'6, 200-215 pound guy to be better than you inside.

I also can't believe anyone could be questioning LeBron's heart, willingness or ferociousness at finishing when that was literally his entire game his first go around as a Cavalier. All he did was put his head down and attack the basket.
Lebron doesn't go at bigger players at the rim like Jordan did, Plain and simple. Show us a video where Lebron looks like Jordan at the rim? Both players can make the easy play - most players can do that. Jordan makes the harder play more often and that's why his videos are far better. Lebron is not going to try to dunk on Dwight Howard if he's under the rim. Kobe's videos of dunking on Duncan and Dwight Howard are far better than Lebron's because Lebron doesn't contest bigger players much. He takes the easiest shot at the rim. Jordan dunked on every great shot blocker of his era, which was an era of great shot blockers, with great Jordan authority. Lebron has very little to show in an era of weak shot blockers.

Its not a question, the videos back me up.

[Hey Yo]

:oldlol:
Look at the date of your article - MJ made those comments in 2001 - at that time, everyone thought NBA would implement a PURE zone that allowed paint-camping,
link?


just like Jordan faced at North Carolina when he was POY over Hakeem and Ewing.
Comparing college to Pro's.......:oldlol:

DUMB

[Smoke117]

I guess were if we're talking about going up strong for a dunk he is...but if that avenue is closed Jordan is much better at contorting his body and getting up different kinds of lay ups.

[3ball]

.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2015/iDsifM.gif


In today's game, bigs are consistently drawn out of the paint to defend and shade on the perimeter - advantage perimeter player.

In previous eras, bigs were not drawn out of the paint and patrolled the lane for the entire possession - advantage big men, and disadvantage perimeter player.

Ultimately, Lebron's help defenders are guarding guys at the 3-point line - so they must travel a further distance to help at the rim.. Otoh, Jordan's help defenders were guarding guys in the paint, so they were already at the rim, or only needed a step or two to be at the rim.

In case you haven't noticed, today's game has far more IN-STRIDE layups at the rim than previous eras - that's only possible when the paint is open.. Today's in-stride layups (like the gif above) occur because bigs have been drawn out of the paint.. That gif shows the standard setup in today's game - big men LEAVING their wheelhouse (the paint) to engage in mismatch on the perimeter.

[Da_Realist]

I guess were if we're talking about going up strong for a dunk he is...

Maybe if no one was at the rim. MJ was much more likely to flushing it over Ewing at the rim than LeBron would have been.

[plowking]

.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2015/iDsifM.gif


In today's game, bigs are consistently drawn out of the paint to defend and shade on the perimeter - advantage perimeter player.

In previous eras, bigs were not drawn out of the paint and patrolled the lane for the entire possession - advantage big men, and disadvantage perimeter player.

Ultimately, Lebron's help defenders are guarding guys at the 3-point line - so they must travel a further distance to help at the rim.. Otoh, Jordan's help defenders were guarding guys in the paint, so they were already at the rim, or only needed a step or two to be at the rim.

In case you haven't noticed, today's game has far more IN-STRIDE layups at the rim than previous eras - that's only possible when the paint is open.. Today's in-stride layups (like the gif above) occur because bigs have been drawn out of the paint.. That gif shows the standard setup in today's game - big men LEAVING their wheelhouse (the paint) to engage in mismatch on the perimeter.

Duncan was quite literally in the paint for 95% of that GIF.

[fourkicks44]

Jordan was like Rocky and Lebron is like Ivan Drago....

Think about it.

Get over it.

Move on.

[tpols]

Lebron doesn't go at bigger players at the rim like Jordan did, Plain and simple. Show us a video where Lebron looks like Jordan at the rim?





CHEST 2 CHEST POSTERS OF AFRICAN CENTERS



Jordan

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Chicago-Bulls-Michael-Jordan-Dunks-on-Atlanta-Hawks-Dikembe-Mutombo.gif


Lebron

http://i.giphy.com/eyFinwuKYIMO4.gif



can you say goat ..? :pimp:


:pimp:

[tpols]

and biyombo sure as hell aint no mutumbo ...

[NuggetsFan]

LeBron's the better finisher. Jordan's far more skilled, quicker etc. but LeBron is a 6'8 freight train. Your talking about a guy that still manages to be an elite scorer despite the fact that he goes through periods where his jumper is hilarious broken and defense's literally do nothing but try and prevent him from getting into the paint and finishing.

Jordan's finishing was more aesthetically pleasing but LeBron is more effective. He just bullies his way to the rims and finishes. He shot what 62% from 2 that one year in Miami? 80% in between 0-3 feet.

Jordan's the GOAT but he can't win everything.

[Smoke117]

Maybe if no one was at the rim. MJ was much more likely to flushing it over Ewing at the rim than LeBron would have been.

lol yeah okay...whatever you say.

[CuterThanRubio]

.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-28-2015/iDsifM.gif


In today's game, bigs are consistently drawn out of the paint to defend and shade on the perimeter - advantage perimeter player.

In previous eras, bigs were not drawn out of the paint and patrolled the lane for the entire possession - advantage big men, and disadvantage perimeter player.

Ultimately, Lebron's help defenders are guarding guys at the 3-point line - so they must travel a further distance to help at the rim.. Otoh, Jordan's help defenders were guarding guys in the paint, so they were already at the rim, or only needed a step or two to be at the rim.

In case you haven't noticed, today's game has far more IN-STRIDE layups at the rim than previous eras - that's only possible when the paint is open.. Today's in-stride layups (like the gif above) occur because bigs have been drawn out of the paint.. That gif shows the standard setup in today's game - big men LEAVING their wheelhouse (the paint) to engage in mismatch on the perimeter.

Using WASHED UP Duncan footage as an example of poor defense completely discredits your entire wall of text, find a better gif!

[NuggetsFan]

MJ took more risks and made more impossible shots than LeBron would think to even try

This is the real problem. Some people for reasons I'll never understand give out bonus points for difficulty and playing stupid basketball. Not that MJ played stupid basketball but you trying to somehow spin something in MJ's favor end up using something that's negative as a positive :oldlol:

LeBron does get easier shots at the rim. He would in any era. Why? He's a 6'8 big man who has the speed/quickness/handle to play on the perimeter and coordination to finish like a guard around the hoop.

I've seen games where teams give LeBron laughable amounts of space. Like 4 feet backed off daring him to shoot and he somehow gets a dunk/layup that's ugly as shit but crazy effective.

[nba_55]

Let's stick to the facts/stats guys. If we go by the stats ( the only objective measure), Lebron is the better finisher.


Op is right.

[ShawkFactory]

Different ballgames obviously.

Jordan was better at maneuvering and finishing in traffic.

Lebron is better at finishing in transition and through contact.

Really apples and oranges.

[nba_55]

Different ballgames obviously.

Jordan was better at maneuvering and finishing in traffic.

Lebron is better at finishing in transition and through contact.

Really apples and oranges.

Not really. Lebron has the better finishing stats, for that reason, he is the better finisher. It's that simple.

[ShawkFactory]

Not really. Lebron has the better finishing stats, for that reason, he is the better finisher. It's that simple.
You can't really compare the stats accurately though, without being a little intellectually dishonest.

The game was played differently in Jordan's time than it is now. That is a fact.

Lebron wouldn't be able to wiggle his way through traffic the way that Jordan could. Nor did he have the quick twitch explosiveness the catch big guys off guard and yam on them.

On the other hand, Jordan couldn't get a head of steam like Lebron could in the fast break. Whether it's completely deterring defenders from even stepping up on him or finishing through people grabbing him. Nor could Jordan finish with a big grabbing his body in the half court the way Lebron can.

They're really just different players in this aspect. Jordan was more agile and explosive, Lebron is faster and stronger.

[plowking]

lol yeah okay...whatever you say.

lol exactly.

The only reason Bron doesn't dunk on more people is because 99% of the league runs out of the way when they see him with a little bit of steam towards the ring.

No one is comparable to Bron in terms of perimeter players. He finishes at that much more of a higher rate, while getting hit that much more that it is clear as day he is the best finisher ever around the ring.

[Indian guy]

People are seriously underrating, or in some cases overlooking altogether, how flexible and nimble-footed LeBron used to pre-Miami, before he got a lot bigger. He didn't just move in a straight line and rely purely on brute strength and speed. He had remarkable flexibility and change-of-direction ability during his first Cleveland stint. Even as a finisher he was very creative. Watch how varied his attack is in this game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqE-DrcWV6I

[Ca$H]

No doubt. LeBron is arguably the goat rim finisher for a non-big.

He is a big.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Duncan was quite literally in the paint for 95% of that GIF.

Irrelevant. You think a 7-footer (much less a 45 year old 7-footer like Duncan) has any chance when confronted with a guard with a live dribble and forward momentum at the FT line when he can go in either direction because there's no one else around? No chance at all. Wide open lanes.

[Indian guy]

LeBron was just a physical marvel. No perimeter player could overwhelm an opponent with sheer athletic greatness like LeBron could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q67kIcfQeto

[Im Still Ballin]

LeBron was just a physical marvel. No perimeter player could overwhelm an opponent with sheer athletic greatness like LeBron could.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q67kIcfQeto
He was so big in his prime, which makes his athleticism all that more impressive... He was at least 265 there... Just the thickness on his frame.. He clearly outweighs pretty much every player on the court there... Rivals Ben Wallace in size

[Indian guy]

He was so big in his prime, which makes his athleticism all that more impressive... He was at least 265 there... Just the thickness on his frame.. He clearly outweighs pretty much every player on the court there... Rivals Ben Wallace in size

Notice how despite the size, how light he is on his feet. He's changing direction at will in the video I posted. And the in-air adjustments on his layup attempts too - just ridiculous coordination and body control at that size.

[Im Still Ballin]

Notice how despite the size, how light he is on his feet. He's changing direction at will in the video I posted. And the in-air adjustments on his layup attempts too - just ridiculous coordination and body control at that size.
Indeed. His And1's even in the halfcourt were unstoppable.

http://theballerlife.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/ben-wallace-lebron-james.jpg

[Pointguard]

Not really. Lebron has the better finishing stats, for that reason, he is the better finisher. It's that simple.

Jordan would have scored more now than in his day as rules in his day slowed his rim attack and taller more skilled rim protectors, who are more aggressive than the one's that Lebron avoids now definitely would have affect on both of their games. Being that Lebron was definitely affected by good defensive players and avoids directly going at big defensive players as well.

I don't think DH or DJ are the leagues best finishers because their percentages are the highest. That and I'm sure when Jordan scored 37ppg Lebron never approached those numbers ever. As volume mixed with percentage were far above anything Lebron approached.

[hateraid]

I can't find the link with Lebron with his hands on his hips in the clouds and all the NBA stars reaching up at him. can someone link that thread?

Anyone please?

[Papaya Petee]

What is all this non-sense about Jordan slivering through traffic, being more slick getting the rim, having more "creative" finishes than LeBron? :roll: The question is who is the better finisher, and statistics don't lie, LeBron is comfortably ahead.
This is simple really, one is 6'8 260 LB the other one was 6'6 220. LeBron is a better finisher period.
Stick to the question, don't try to add all this additional nonsense about creativity and other shit just because you know you're wrong.

[Jacks3]

jordan stans are hilarious. i mean we're talking about a 10%+ difference here..surely they can see how hilarious their excuses for that humongous gap sound? not that it matters. jordan is still glaringly superior as a scorer overall. it's ok. jordan doesn't have the best at everything.

[hateraid]

jordan stans are hilarious. i mean we're talking about a 10%+ difference here..surely they can see how hilarious their excuses for that humongous gap sound? not that it matters. jordan is still glaringly superior as a scorer overall. it's ok. jordan doesn't have the best at everything.
This is the stuff I've been trying to peach all along. Yet I've seen him compared as a ball handler to Iverson, post player to Duncan, and a 3 pointer to Allen. Hell I've seen him compared to Randy Moss as a wide receiver.

[bond10]

What is all this non-sense about Jordan slivering through traffic, being more slick getting the rim, having more "creative" finishes than LeBron? :roll: The question is who is the better finisher, and statistics don't lie, LeBron is comfortably ahead.
This is simple really, one is 6'8 260 LB the other one was 6'6 220. LeBron is a better finisher period.
Stick to the question, don't try to add all this additional nonsense about creativity and other shit just because you know you're wrong.

Well Jordan was more creative because he HAD to be (can't just stiff arm his way to the rim like Lebron). He's smaller than Lebron and played in a big man, physical era with lots of paint camping. Today's game allows guys like Tony Parker and Steve Nash to get to the rim easily so that's why it's more about context than absolute number comparison.

I'm sure 3ball is typing up a huge ass post with tons of gifs on spacing, quality of bigs Jordan faced vs the joke Lebron goes through each year, and how much easier it is to get to the rim in today's game vs the 90s. He's done it dozens of times, I don't even understand how people can still compare today's inside game compared to pre-2005? This has been done a billion times before and everyone knows it's a guard's league now.

[Pointguard]

What is all this non-sense about Jordan slivering through traffic, being more slick getting the rim, having more "creative" finishes than LeBron? :roll: The question is who is the better finisher, and statistics don't lie, LeBron is comfortably ahead.
This is simple really, one is 6'8 260 LB the other one was 6'6 220. LeBron is a better finisher period.
Stick to the question, don't try to add all this additional nonsense about creativity and other shit just because you know you're wrong.
You guys are way oversimplifying this.

I had to walk a six inch wide beam for 20 ft and turn back at a 98% ratio of success. Gaby Douglass does the same beam at 78% with all types of gymnastiics. Obviously I am not better than Gaby. I am a safer routine. Like Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan are not among the finishers ever despite their vastly superior numbers to MJ. Without good PGs their numbers would suck bad. So pure numbers aren't the answer. Lebron obviously doesn't go as hard as Jordan does at formidable obstacles. Kobe definitely goes harder at Yao, Duncan and Dwight than Lebron ever did. And Kobe isn't on par with MJ.

Lebron is the safer finisher for sure. Better is a whole different context.

[plowking]

You guys are way oversimplifying this.

I had to walk a six inch wide beam for 20 ft and turn back at a 98% ratio of success. Gaby Douglass does the same beam at 78% with all types of gymnastiics. Obviously I am not better than Gaby. I am a safer routine. Like Tyson Chandler and Deandre Jordan are not among the finishers ever despite their vastly superior numbers to MJ. Without good PGs their numbers would suck bad. So pure numbers aren't the answer. Lebron obviously doesn't go as hard as Jordan does at formidable obstacles. Kobe definitely goes harder at Yao, Duncan and Dwight than Lebron ever did. And Kobe isn't on par with MJ.

Lebron is the safer finisher for sure. Better is a whole different context.

lol at you thinking an apt comparison is that of two centers who get spoon fed alley oops, to that of the MJ vs Bron comparison, who both create for themselves. Not to mention, Bron takes more shots at the damn ring. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

lol at you thinking an apt comparison is that of two centers who get spoon fed alley oops, to that of the MJ vs Bron comparison, who both create for themselves. Not to mention, Bron takes more shots at the damn ring. :oldlol:
Lol at you not seeing that I used the example to say its not about the numbers after I made the statement.

[Papaya Petee]

Lol at you not seeing that I used the example to say its not about the numbers after I made the statement.
You said LeBron is the safer finisher (whatever that means) and he told you that LeBron takes more shots at the rim than Jordan so that clearly means he isn't a safer finisher

[plowking]

You said LeBron is the safer finisher (whatever that means) and he told you that LeBron takes more shots at the rim than Jordan so that clearly means he isn't a safer finisher

All the posters making these claims that LeBron is a safe finisher, only takes easy shots at the ring, and doesn't take tough shots are literally the same ones who make fun of his jumpshot and say that he forces his way to the ring too much instead of taking what the defense gives him.

People won't even own up to their own bullshit. Not even like it is a thing they said 4 or 5 years ago. This shit is recent. :oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

I'm not not sure why so many people have an issue with this. Lebron might be the single greatest fast court breakaway player of all time. He might not be as good as Jordan in the half court at scoring at the rim but I think he's so far ahead in terms of fastbreak than anyone else in basketball that this isn't so crazy.

Lebron was averaging 70% at the rim during his peak. Those are stunning numbers.

[Pointguard]

You said LeBron is the safer finisher (whatever that means) and he told you that LeBron takes more shots at the rim than Jordan so that clearly means he isn't a safer finisher
I totally explained what safer means. 7 footer at the rim, Lebron isn't going to go up strong. He doesn't have the confidence to do that like Jordan did, despite being much bigger than Jordan and facing much weaker defenders. DH took a lot of shots at the rim with great efficiency in 2011 but he was far from being the best finisher. Gaby Douglass has more confidence in doing the harder routines because she's better than the others. With greats its about greater obstacles never about easier layups. You're using the wrong standard.

[PP34Deuce]

I totally explained what safer means. 7 footer at the rim, Lebron isn't going to go up strong. He doesn't have the confidence to do that like Jordan did, despite being much bigger than Jordan and facing much weaker defenders. DH took a lot of shots at the rim with great efficiency in 2011 but he was far from being the best finisher. Gaby Douglass has more confidence in doing the harder routines because she's better than the others. With greats its about greater obstacles never about easier layups. You're using the wrong standard.


Lebron still has the "fear" factor with most players. If he goes to the basket most guys don't try to contest it. Even guys like a Kawhi and Iggy will let Lebron go if he's on the fast break.

I think it's nitpicking but it's clear as day to see over 13 years, Lebron is a better finisher than MJ. Faster,bigger,stronger,coordinated, he just finishes everything.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron still has the "fear" factor with most players. If he goes to the basket most guys don't try to contest it. Even guys like a Kawhi and Iggy will let Lebron go if he's on the fast break.

I think it's nitpicking but it's clear as day to see over 13 years, Lebron is a better finisher than MJ. Faster,bigger,stronger,coordinated, he just finishes everything.


Lebron is certainly a beast going to the rim, but he's definitely not more coordinated, and probably not faster than Jordan either.

[Pointguard]

Lebron still has the "fear" factor with most players. If he goes to the basket most guys don't try to contest it. Even guys like a Kawhi and Iggy will let Lebron go if he's on the fast break.

I think it's nitpicking but it's clear as day to see over 13 years, Lebron is a better finisher than MJ. Faster,bigger,stronger,coordinated, he just finishes everything.


Show me your best Lebron video and I guarantee your "clear as day' will be proven a joke.

Lebron is not faster than Jordan or more coordinated. Jordan is quicker, has a better handle, and is more agile. The two most important qualities, confidence and agility to rise above all obstacles are also in Jordan's favor. Jordan was very much the supreme competitor.

Lebron practically has all those traits on Kobe but Kobe has those Jordan traits of fearlessness, supreme confidence, and won't back down and this is why his videos of dunking on 7 footers is much more striking than Lebron's. Jordan went harder to the basket than anybody even when they were tackling him.

[Cali Syndicate]

Lebron's probably the best at taking contact and still being able to finish. MJ was also strong and could take contact but not like a 250lbs+ Lebron. It's just not possible. But on the flip side, MJ was far more agile and could create angles where there shouldn't be to score around multiple defenders. Lebron doesn't have this.

Both have elite verticals and can finish with either hand, so really it basically comes down to-

Big and strong body vs strong and coordinated

[Showtime80']

It's been a while since I posted but I'll just leave this video for analysis purposes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY

Watch and study Michael's raw athleticism, quickness, strength, hang time, body control, ruthlessness, fearlessness, agility, artistry, creativeness etc...

Nobody did it like this! LeBron is a bull no question about it but Jordan took teams SOULS when he finished at the rim!!! There was an aggression about his forays to the rim that really have not been duplicated (Kobe had a similar attack but he didn't possess the raw physical gifts Michael had)

Whether it was the fast paced mid 80's to the extremely physical late 80's early 90's to the slow down slugfests of the late 90's, Jordan didn't care who was in front of him on the perimeter or standing in below the rim, he was coming.

LeBron is robotic effectiveness, Jordan is devastating poetry in motion!

[Dro]

Lebron's probably the best at taking contact and still being able to finish. MJ was also strong and could take contact but not like a 250lbs+ Lebron. It's just not possible. But on the flip side, MJ was far more agile and could create angles where there shouldn't be to score around multiple defenders. Lebron doesn't have this.

Both have elite verticals and can finish with either hand, so really it basically comes down to-

Big and strong body vs strong and coordinated
Good post..

[ClipperRevival]

It's been a while since I posted but I'll just leave this video for analysis purposes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY

Watch and study Michael's raw athleticism, quickness, strength, hang time, body control, ruthlessness, fearlessness, agility, artistry, creativeness etc...

Nobody did it like this! LeBron is a bull no question about it but Jordan took teams SOULS when he finished at the rim!!! There was an aggression about his forays to the rim that really have not been duplicated (Kobe had a similar attack but he didn't possess the raw physical gifts Michael had)

Whether it was the fast paced mid 80's to the extremely physical late 80's early 90's to the slow down slugfests of the late 90's, Jordan didn't care who was in front of him on the perimeter or standing in below the rim, he was coming.

LeBron is robotic effectiveness, Jordan is devastating poetry in motion!

Most of these youngsters simply don't understand the nuances of the game to truly appreciate how special MJ was as an athlete.

[Smoke117]

Most of these youngsters simply don't understand the nuances of the game to truly appreciate how special MJ was as an athlete.

No, most of these youngsters (which you probably are too) just don't care...and neither do I. We're not all here to suck the tip and gargle his balls like you are.

[andgar923]

It's been a while since I posted but I'll just leave this video for analysis purposes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY

Watch and study Michael's raw athleticism, quickness, strength, hang time, body control, ruthlessness, fearlessness, agility, artistry, creativeness etc...

Nobody did it like this! LeBron is a bull no question about it but Jordan took teams SOULS when he finished at the rim!!! There was an aggression about his forays to the rim that really have not been duplicated (Kobe had a similar attack but he didn't possess the raw physical gifts Michael had)

Whether it was the fast paced mid 80's to the extremely physical late 80's early 90's to the slow down slugfests of the late 90's, Jordan didn't care who was in front of him on the perimeter or standing in below the rim, he was coming.

LeBron is robotic effectiveness, Jordan is devastating poetry in motion!

I feel this video here https://youtu.be/g_RLjmI6fK4 is a better example. It's not simply about dunking, but about finishing by any means necessary.

We see MJ change direction and speed so many times before getting to the rim and having to adjust his shot and body all over again, it's ridiculous. Im sure there's examples of Bron doing something similar to this in some instances, but not as many, not as good.

Like many have mentioned, Bron is a bull while MJ is a cat that is more versatile and quick. His agility and speed make defenders appear to be stuck, but they simply can't react fast enough, MJ cuts/zig zags too fast for most defenders at times.

But more importantly than anything else, is the decision he makes to get himself in that position. He could easily pull up, go the opposite side, pick up his dribble, pass, shoot a floater, etc.etc. but he doesn't. He reads the defense, picks apart a flaw and exploits it. He makes the decision to execute and has the timing and ability to finish off the execution.

I've seen Bron stare at a clear path, and he continues to dribble, dribble, dribble until it's too late so he decides to shoot a 3, or stare and look for a pass instead. I don't get Bron sometimes, it appears that he needs to be in a certain mindset, a certain mode to think quick and attack, whereas it's natural for MJ. And that is a reason why people claim "Bron takes easy shots", because he just takes too long and is too calculated to a fault. Most of MJ's moves happen instant, not so much for Bron.

[andgar923]

Here are 2 more displaying his quickness:

https://youtu.be/vDESGrXI8jE
https://youtu.be/qukNKGNphoQ

His first step is un-guardable, which is why they used smaller players on him at times. But even they were still too slow at times. The defenders tried to sag off him at times, and he still beat them with his first step.

Meanwhile Diaw is locking up Bron.

One comparison between the vids I posted and any video Bron fans will post, is the lanes are usually more congested in MJ's era. The defense may look slow or out of place at times, because MJ made them appear that way. He was simply too fast, too skilled, too smart and he reacted with swiftness, not a move or dribble wasted. It was all scientific with him, calculated to a t.

[andgar923]

https://youtu.be/j1FsD9Y7NfY

Again, incredible display of balance, strength, body control and contortion. But what separates MJ from everyone else, is his ability to maneuver and adjust while in mid-air and mid-move. He squeezes between 2 and even 3 defenders WHILE in the air, that is extremely unique that very few can pull off with any sort of consistency. On top of that, some of these moves happen after pulling off a different move and having to adjust in a split second.

Bron usually bullies himself and doesn't have the dexterity or finesse to pull off some of these moves (if not the vast majority). But don't be fooled, most of these moves require tremendous strength, core strength that one simply can't earn by lifting weights. He gets clobbered on some of these plays, fouled hard on purpose yet he still finishes standing up.

An overlooked aspect is the distance MJ usually takes off from in some of these clips. Dude takes off from distances most won't even attempt in an empty gym, yet he splits 2 defenders while in the air.

:confusedshrug:

[Round Mound]

Barkley and Shaq > Lebron as finishers

[PP34Deuce]

Lol Jordan is quicker but Lebron is faster than him. Even Jordan's contemporaries have said Lebron is faster.

MJ has great body control. If I need a tough basket and both are going in traffic... Prime Bron is scarier. Look at his 2008-2010 highlights. bullying big men, small men, athletic guys, etc....

I know people hate Lebron but as far as an athlete, Lebron is another class.

[Smoke117]

Barkley and Shaq > Lebron as finishers

Shaq? No ****ing shit. Really went out a on a limb there, eh? Enjoy this for your stupidity.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/3a39675f2250921a3d25d617406ba754/tumblr_n6n0u3N3dP1rrshcdo1_400.gif

And no, Barkley is not a better finisher than Lebron.

[Round Mound]

Shaq? No ****ing shit. Really went out a on a limb there, eh? Enjoy this for your stupidity.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/3a39675f2250921a3d25d617406ba754/tumblr_n6n0u3N3dP1rrshcdo1_400.gif

And no, Barkley is not a better finisher than Lebron.

Barkley is at 81% at the rim from 88-96. Phila has the stats.

Prime Barkley was the best finisher in the NBA prior to Shaq.

[andgar923]

Lol Jordan is quicker but Lebron is faster than him. Even Jordan's contemporaries have said Lebron is faster.

MJ has great body control. If I need a tough basket and both are going in traffic... Prime Bron is scarier. Look at his 2008-2010 highlights. bullying big men, small men, athletic guys, etc....

I know people hate Lebron but as far as an athlete, Lebron is another class.

A basketball athlete requires different set of abilities that Bron falls short of MJ.

Mj is said to be as strong as Bron, but is more agile, quick, flexible, better balance and easily has more stamina. MJ's first step is unmatchable, his jumping is quicker, can jump better off either foot or two feet, MJ has better body control which is a big benefit for a basketball player (or just about any athlete).

And one important physical aspect that some overlook but is critical for an NBA player is their hand size. Bron wishes he could palm the ball like MJ and he's taller. MJ's hands allowed him to do things that most players could only dream of. Very few people could even attempt some of the things MJ did, let alone do them in the same amount of consistency.

What's the use of being so big and strong when his game winning drive attempts get blocked?

[andgar923]

Barkley is at 81% at the rim from 88-96. Phila has the stats.

Prime Barkley was the best finisher in the NBA prior to Shaq.

Chuck was a monster.

Too quick for bigs, too strong for non-bigs. Freak of nature jumper with a powerful and explosive jump. Never appeared to be under 6'6, always appeared to be 6'10 by how easily he scored inside.

[Smoke117]

Barkley is at 81% at the rim from 88-96. Phila has the stats.

Prime Barkley was the best finisher in the NBA prior to Shaq.

And where are these numbers for other players in the 90s? I find it hard to believe he had a higher finishing rate than a young David Robinson. (who was leading the league in dunks before Shaq came along)

[Showtime80']

Great takes and visuals andgar 923!!!! I'm gonna borrow a quote from your posts that I think encapsulates not only the difference in Jordan's mindset and LeBron's but also the difference in ERAS!!!

"not a move or dribble wasted"

This is something that has plagued the NBA since the late 90's until now and specially after the whole And1 movement, WASTED MOVEMENT!!!!!! Michael didn't need to dribble the damn air out of the ball or make 10 juke moves before deciding what to do, If he got you with the first move, THAT WAS IT!!! The next action was a mid range jumper or a drive to the basket.

In today's SMALL GUARD ORIENTED NBA, it has become the norm to dribble, dribble and dribble for 20+ seconds before knowing what the hell the next move is going to be even when they ALREADY GOT THEIR MAN OUT OF POSITION with the first few dribbles, the urge to break ankles and show up the defender has consumed a lot of the modern player, call it the "Allen Iverson disease". Couple that with the fact that the paint has been cleared with the constant rule changes of the past 20 years and the urgency to go to the rim as quick as possible is no longer there.

And Deuce give me a break!!! Go make a list of the centers and PF's that Michael had to deal with packing the paint from 1984 to 1998 and compare it to LeBron's from 2003 until now and it really is very pathetic.

[andgar923]

Great takes and visuals andgar 923!!!! I'm gonna borrow a quote from your posts that I think encapsulates not only the difference in Jordan's mindset and LeBron's but also the difference in ERAS!!!

"not a move or dribble wasted"

This is something that has plagued the NBA since the late 90's until now and specially after the whole And1 movement, WASTED MOVEMENT!!!!!! Michael didn't need to dribble the damn air out of the ball or make 10 juke moves before deciding what to do, If he got you with the first move, THAT WAS IT!!! The next action was a mid range jumper or a drive to the basket.

In today's SMALL GUARD ORIENTED NBA, it has become the norm to dribble, dribble and dribble for 20+ seconds before knowing what the hell the next move is going to be even when they ALREADY GOT THEIR MAN OUT OF POSITION with the first few dribbles, the urge to break ankles and show up the defender has consumed a lot of the modern player, call it the "Allen Iverson disease". Couple that with the fact that the paint has been cleared with the constant rule changes of the past 20 years and the urgency to go to the rim as quick as possible is no longer there.

And Deuce give me a break!!! Go make a list of the centers and PF's that Michael had to deal with packing the paint from 1984 to 1998 and compare it to LeBron's from 2003 until now and it really is very pathetic.

Borrow away.

I've been thinking of making videos again (now that I have better hardware and software), who knows... maybe I do an entire breakdown and comparison between Bron and MJ's mind set.

I know I come across as disliking Bron but I really dig him, which is why he pisses me the f*ck off when I watch him play. I literally scream at the tv for him to attack when it's clear as f*(skin day that the lane is open.

Wade was my fav player for a long time and I dropped everything to watch those two go at it. Prime Wade was like watching young MJ, he just found a way to get to the cup. He was great to watch in his prime, but Bron always waited far too long to attack and make things happen; unless he was in 'LeBeast Mode' but even then, it was usually a straight line, whereas Kobe, Wade, MJ, Iverson, Tmac, Spreewell to name a few zig zagged their way to the hoop, giving you an assortment of fakes, stop-go hesitation moves, crossovers, etc.

Some will counter "Bron is too big" yet I've seen Lamar a less athletic, taller player basically do some of the same stuff those players I mentioned do. Then there's Magic, who always appeared to be playing in slow motion when he was actually playing faster then everyone else. People should watch Magic, very subtle stuff at times, appears to be playing slow then bam... there's a hoop or a dish. He gave you hesitation moves, spins, crossovers, Bron does as well but not as fast as Magic, not as often. Bron is more brawn while Magic is more precision and skill. And again...no wasted movements, just quick action/reaction from all over the court.

[Round Mound]

And where are these numbers for other players in the 90s? I find it hard to believe he had a higher finishing rate than a young David Robinson. (who was leading the league in dunks before Shaq came along)

PHILA has the stats. I dont know about Robinson but he sure was mobile to get to the rim. Chucks 2-Point FG% was the highest in the NBA prior to Shaq and he mostly got his points down low in the post play, off the dribble spins, put backs, two-leg dunks and finishes off a fast break

[Round Mound]

Chuck was a monster.

Too quick for bigs, too strong for non-bigs. Freak of nature jumper with a powerful and explosive jump. Never appeared to be under 6'6, always appeared to be 6'10 by how easily he scored inside.

[B]He was too quick for bigs and too strong for both most bigs and non bigs. Charles had the strongest lower torso in NBA history. He never appeared to be just under 6

[Pointguard]

Great takes and visuals andgar 923!!!! I'm gonna borrow a quote from your posts that I think encapsulates not only the difference in Jordan's mindset and LeBron's but also the difference in ERAS!!!

"not a move or dribble wasted"

In today's SMALL GUARD ORIENTED NBA, it has become the norm to dribble, dribble and dribble for 20+ seconds before knowing what the hell the next move is going to be even when they ALREADY GOT THEIR MAN OUT OF POSITION with the first few dribbles, the urge to break ankles and show up the defender has consumed a lot of the modern player, call it the "Allen Iverson disease". Couple that with the fact that the paint has been cleared with the constant rule changes of the past 20 years and the urgency to go to the rim as quick as possible is no longer there.

Derrick Rose and Wade are very efficient. Both didn't waste a lot of dribbling.

[Pointguard]

It's been a while since I posted but I'll just leave this video for analysis purposes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPRyG5bOOtY

Watch and study Michael's raw athleticism, quickness, strength, hang time, body control, ruthlessness, fearlessness, agility, artistry, creativeness etc...

Nobody did it like this! LeBron is a bull no question about it but Jordan took teams SOULS when he finished at the rim!!! There was an aggression about his forays to the rim that really have not been duplicated (Kobe had a similar attack but he didn't possess the raw physical gifts Michael had)

Whether it was the fast paced mid 80's to the extremely physical late 80's early 90's to the slow down slugfests of the late 90's, Jordan didn't care who was in front of him on the perimeter or standing in below the rim, he was coming.

LeBron is robotic effectiveness, Jordan is devastating poetry in motion!
This video was going to be my trump card before you joined this conversation. Jordan's will power was evident in his game. There are about 35 -40 jams in that video of Jordan doing it to 6'10 or taller guys including all the great shot blockers of the last 30 years. He was up for any challenge because there was no obstacle that he couldn't finish over.

[FireDavidKahn]

A basketball athlete requires different set of abilities that Bron falls short of MJ.

Mj is said to be as strong as Bron, but is more agile, quick, flexible, better balance and easily has more stamina. MJ's first step is unmatchable, his jumping is quicker, can jump better off either foot or two feet, MJ has better body control which is a big benefit for a basketball player (or just about any athlete).

And one important physical aspect that some overlook but is critical for an NBA player is their hand size. Bron wishes he could palm the ball like MJ and he's taller. MJ's hands allowed him to do things that most players could only dream of. Very few people could even attempt some of the things MJ did, let alone do them in the same amount of consistency.

What's the use of being so big and strong when his game winning drive attempts get blocked?
:biggums:

[andgar923]

:biggums:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsj_61lhpew

"He's as strong as Lebron" Artest


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09sCTRPLiBM

"People talk about how strong Lebron is, but they don't realize how strong Jordan was, probably one of the strongest you'll run into." Sorry

Kobe, Magic, Reggie and others have talked about MJ's strength. With some of them having played against both Bron and MJ.

https://youtu.be/JUwitHvclwc?t=2m43s kobe

Can't find the clips, but they're out there.

And the proof is out there, we've seen clips of MJ get hit while in the air and still maintain his balance. Bumps that would send most players to the floor or completely out of control.

[Pointguard]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsj_61lhpew

"He's as strong as Lebron" Artest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09sCTRPLiBM

"People talk about how strong Lebron is, but they don't realize how strong Jordan was, probably one of the strongest you'll run into." Sorry

Kobe, Magic, Reggie and others have talked about MJ's strength. With some of them having played against both Bron and MJ.

https://youtu.be/JUwitHvclwc?t=2m43s kobe

Can't find the clips, but they're out there.

And the proof is out there, we've seen clips of MJ get hit while in the air and still maintain his balance. Bumps that would send most players to the floor or completely out of control.

Barkley used to talk about it a lot as well. I remember I went to a game and Jordan switched off on Tom Chambers who was about 6'10 and 250 and Jordan bodied him out of the lane. I was impressed because you just didn't hear a lot about Jordan's strength at that time but it was evident.

[SexSymbol]

Lol Jordan is quicker but Lebron is faster than him. Even Jordan's contemporaries have said Lebron is faster.

MJ has great body control. If I need a tough basket and both are going in traffic... Prime Bron is scarier. Look at his 2008-2010 highlights. bullying big men, small men, athletic guys, etc....

I know people hate Lebron but as far as an athlete, Lebron is another class.
Not true, durant outruns lebron full court and it's not even close and durant isn't as fast as jordan was.
For every poster on a big man that bron has Jordan has 10.
This isn't close, Jordan is a better finisher from every spot on the court aside from dunks from standstill.

[AirBonner]

Not true, durant outruns lebron full court and it's not even close and durant isn't as fast as jordan was.
For every poster on a big man that bron has Jordan has 10.
This isn't close, Jordan is a better finisher from every spot on the court aside from dunks from standstill.
You don't support your claim with ANY evidence.

[plowking]

Damn, Jordan feats beginning to sound like Wilt feats.

All you guys gotta do is pick a vicious animal now and tell us he beat it up. Don't worry what the numbers and facts say, as long as you tell us you watched ball then, call us youngn's, and tell us how much the game sucks now, you're always in the right!

[Im Still Ballin]

Damn, Jordan feats beginning to sound like Wilt feats.

All you guys gotta do is pick a vicious animal now and tell us he beat it up. Don't worry what the numbers and facts say, as long as you tell us you watched ball then, call us youngn's, and tell us how much the game sucks now, you're always in the right!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a01QQZyl-_I

[sdot_thadon]

Damn, Jordan feats beginning to sound like Wilt feats.

All you guys gotta do is pick a vicious animal now and tell us he beat it up. Don't worry what the numbers and facts say, as long as you tell us you watched ball then, call us youngn's, and tell us how much the game sucks now, you're always in the right!
As a guy who grew up idolizing Mj, I always had a sneaking suspicion this would happen to him. Wilt was made to be a joke that kids today still believe because of that same stuff, I even feel it was destructive to his all time rank as well. Once he reaches official ghost story status people will reject his greatness.....don't do it mj stans.

[BigBalla44]

Some of you zealots are f*ucking idiots. They both ran 4.3 40 yard dash but the eye test says Jordan is quicker off the dribble.

[feyki]

Some of you zealots are f*ucking idiots. They both ran 4.3 40 yard dash but the eye test says Jordan is quicker off the dribble.

Are you sure on Lebron's record ?

I know that as 4.5 .

[BigBalla44]

Are you sure on Lebron's record ?

I know that as 4.5 .

My mistake, LBJ supposedly ran 4.4 in high school and MJ ran 4.3 at UNC. Both reports are unconfirmed however. But Dean Smith is the source for MJs time.

LBJ article:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7770269/the-mistrial-lebron-james-espn-magazine

MJ article (link is down but I'm sure u can find on web archive):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/archive/831128/

[madmax]

What is all this non-sense about Jordan slivering through traffic, being more slick getting the rim, having more "creative" finishes than LeBron? :roll: The question is who is the better finisher, and statistics don't lie, LeBron is comfortably ahead.
This is simple really, one is 6'8 260 LB the other one was 6'6 220. LeBron is a better finisher period.
Stick to the question, don't try to add all this additional nonsense about creativity and other shit just because you know you're wrong.

:lol :cheers:

[feyki]

My mistake, LBJ supposedly ran 4.4 in high school and MJ ran 4.3 at UNC. Both reports are unconfirmed however. But Dean Smith is the source for MJs time.

LBJ article:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7770269/the-mistrial-lebron-james-espn-magazine

MJ article (link is down but I'm sure u can find on web archive):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/archive/831128/

He had said , he ran 40 yard with 4.6 about 2013 Summer . I think his 2009 form can run 40 yard in 4.4 , if 2013 Lebron can run with 4.6 .

[SexSymbol]

You don't support your claim with ANY evidence.
Watch the 2012 nba finals.
In Game 2 there are several instances of them going full court shoulder to shoulder and Durant outruns him by a few steps every time. :cheers:

[andgar923]

Damn, Jordan feats beginning to sound like Wilt feats.

All you guys gotta do is pick a vicious animal now and tell us he beat it up. Don't worry what the numbers and facts say, as long as you tell us you watched ball then, call us youngn's, and tell us how much the game sucks now, you're always in the right!

https://media.giphy.com/media/xTcnSOEKegBnYhGahW/giphy.gif

[Da_Realist]

All you guys gotta do is pick a vicious animal now and tell us he beat it up. Don't worry what the numbers and facts say

Your problem is you think numbers are the only facts. Are the lanes more open now than when MJ played or not? Is that not a fact? If so (and it is) then the numbers don't measure the same thing so they can't be compared to each other. If MJ has to dunk over Ewing or get his shot off over three 7 foot Cavaliers to finish but Lebron can just get past his man and power to the rim then pure numbers don't tell the whole story.

Was defense more physical then or not? http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/hubie-brown-breaks-down-why-older-players-hate-on-the-modern-nba/

You hold onto numbers like they tell the whole story but they don't. Only part of it.

[Hey Yo]

My mistake, LBJ supposedly ran 4.4 in high school and MJ ran 4.3 at UNC. Both reports are unconfirmed however. But Dean Smith is the source for MJs time.

LBJ article:
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7770269/the-mistrial-lebron-james-espn-magazine

MJ article (link is down but I'm sure u can find on web archive):
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/1999/jordan_retires/archive/831128/
What would the reasoning be for the need to clock MJ for the 40 at UNC?

It makes sense that James was clocked in high school due to playing football.

[Sharmer]

:lol any with a peanut brain and who watched both players could never come to the conclusion that Lebron is a better finisher.

[Overdrive]

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/lebron.gif

[PP34Deuce]

Prime bron is faster end to end than jordan. Jordan is quicker In tight spaces but if they ran 100 meters lebron would win.

Lebron is better finisher. Sad how much people hate this man

[Hoopz2332]

People are seriously underrating, or in some cases overlooking altogether, how flexible and nimble-footed LeBron used to pre-Miami, before he got a lot bigger. He didn't just move in a straight line and rely purely on brute strength and speed. He had remarkable flexibility and change-of-direction ability during his first Cleveland stint. Even as a finisher he was very creative. Watch how varied his attack is in this game - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqE-DrcWV6I


this

[Hoopz2332]

you can practically tackle lebron and he'll still finish and people are simplifying lbj's arsenal of finishes at the rim.


http://newyorkknicksmemesdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/scalynaughtygodwit.gif


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http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/1098728/lebron-layup-h.gif

[Hoopz2332]

http://giant.gfycat.com/DeterminedAlertAegeancat.gif

http://media.giphy.com/media/UgEQiZ9bNaaA0/giphy.gif


http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2588599/lestrong.gif

you can practically tackle him and he'll finish most of the time



http://thumb.usatodaysportsimages.com/image/thumb/540-390nw/7907710.jpg

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/140510-jameslayup.gif

[Hoopz2332]

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http://giant.gfycat.com/CrispRepulsiveCaecilian.gif

[plowking]

Those all looked really easy Hoopz. Mainly because this is a weak era and the rings are actually lower now. That is why scoring numbers are inflated! Even though they aren't! Just take my word for it!

Jordan would have dunked those with his feet due to the rings being lower now and no contact allowed! Before you were allowed to shoot people with guns as they drove to the rim. Each team was allowed a sniper on the bench too! Getting layups was almost impossible!

[Hoopz2332]

Those all looked really easy Hoopz. Mainly because this is a weak era and the rings are actually lower now. That is why scoring numbers are inflated! Even though they aren't! Just take my word for it!

Jordan would have dunked those with his feet due to the rings being lower now and no contact allowed! Before you were allowed to shoot people with guns as they drove to the rim. Each team was allowed a sniper on the bench too! Getting layups was almost impossible!


:oldlol:

[Hoopz2332]

http://giant.gfycat.com/TintedGoldenGoosefish.gif

http://giant.gfycat.com/HomelyInbornLamb.gif

[Hoopz2332]

https://s31.postimg.org/s980v78q3/index_1.gif

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