Some Information regarding Kobe's 2006 season

[ArbitraryWater]

So we all know it was an anamoly, but I've often been criticised in the past, for how far I went with it. Its clear to me Kobe received a massive boost, of the most inflated season in NBA history. So I did some research, and wanted to see just how badly skewed the numbers were.

Here are some facts:

2006 is the most league inflated season since the 1960's.

Three 30+ ppg scorers, AND Arenas at 29.3. The last time 3+ players averaged 30+ points per game was 1981/1982.

3 30+ ppg scorers only happened 6 times in the entire history of the NBA. 1975, 1982, and 2006 are the only ones outside of the 1960's.

The most 24+ ppg players in one season ever (12). A total of 24 20+ ppg scorers.

22 players besides Kobe had a 40+ point game. Among them: Mike Bibby (4x), Jason Richardson (3x), Michael Redd (3x), Rashard Lewis (2x), Elton Brand, Pau Gasol, Richard Hamilton, Richard Jefferson, Shawn Marion, Mike Miller, Charlie Villanueva, Gerald Wallace.

Just about every perimeter star saw their career highs in PPG, FG%, or both.

Here are the 24 20+ ppg scorers:

Kobe Bryant: 35.4 ppg (career high, +7.6)
Allen Iverson: 33.0 ppg (career high, +2.7)
LeBron James: 31.4 ppg (career high, +4.2)
Gilbert Arenas: 29.3 ppg (career high, +3.8)
Dwyane Wade: 27.2 ppg (career 3rd best, +3.1)
Paul Pierce: 26.8 ppg (career high, +5.2)
Dirk Nowitzki: 26.6 ppg (career 2nd best, +0.5) *PF, perimeter tendencies
Carmelo Anthony: 26.5 ppg (career 5th best, +.5.7)
Michael Redd: 25.4 ppg (career 2nd best, +2.4)
Ray Allen: 25.1 ppg (career 2nd best, +1.2)
Elton Brand: 24.7 ppg (career high, +4.7)
Vince Carter: 24.2 ppg (career 3rd best, -0.3)
Jason Richardson: 23.2 ppg (career high, +1.5)
Chris Bosh: 22.5 ppg (career 3rd best, +5.7)
Shawn Marion: 21.8 ppg (career high, +2.4)
Kevin Garnett: 21.8 ppg (career 7th best, -0.4) *PF, perimeter tendencies
Mike Bibby: 21.1 ppg (career high, +1.5)
Antawn Jamison: 20.5 ppg (career 5th best, +0.9) *PF
Pau Gasol: 20.4 ppg (career 2nd best, +2.6) *PF, perimeter tendencies
Mike James: 20.3 ppg (career high, +8.5)
Chris Webber: 20.2 ppg (career 7th best, +0.7) *PF
Joe Johnson: 20.2 ppg (career 5th best, +3.1)
Richard Hamilton: 20.1 ppg (career high, +1.4)
Rashard Lewis: 20.1 ppg (career 3rd best, -0.4)

Every single perimeter all-star and perimeter 20 point scorer saw their production increase in 2006 (barring Vince Carter).

Billups is the only East perimeter all-star who didn't average 20+ ppg, but even he saw his production increase by +2.0, and had his career 2nd best. Nash and Parker ar the only West perimeter all-star who didn't average 20+ ppg, Nash saw his production increase by +3.3 having his career high, Parker saw his production increase by +2.3, having his career 3rd best.

No matter the stage of their career, irrelevant if they were pre-prime or post-prime, or in the midst of their peak. The seasons range from third season to 13th. Everybody here is between their 5th-10th season, w/ James/Wade/Anthony/Bosh in their 3rd, Garnett in his 11th, Webber in his 13th.

Only 5 players of the 24 didn't have top 3 career scoring years, of which 3 were either in their third season, or past their 10th.

---

Kobe's greatest statistical achievement, falls into the biggest outlier, most stat boosted/inflated season ever, since the 1960's, in which all perimeter players saw a massive increase in their production, with Kobe taking the most advantage of it, gaining the biggest boost of the year.

[Dragonyeuw]

This has been discussed before on the forum, how much of a boost the 2005-2006 stats were impacted by perimeter-friendly rule changes. Iverson alone putting up 33 on 45% at 30 when he was starting to lose that blinding speed a bit, should be testament enough.

[ArbitraryWater]

This has been discussed before on the forum, how much of a boost the 2005-2006 stats were impacted by perimeter-friendly rule changes. Iverson alone putting up 33 on 45% at 30 when he was starting to lose that blinding speed a bit, should be testament enough.

I just strenghtened the case so there could be no argument about it anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6hXqSIJXI
Here, '06 LAL/MIA game, you actually have Collins/Kerr adressing those very issues at the 10 minute mark, as Kobe is fouled.

[Dragonyeuw]

I just strenghtened the case so there could be no argument about it anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6hXqSIJXI
Here, '06 LAL/MIA game, you actually have Collins/Kerr adressing those very issues at the 10 minute mark, as Kobe is fouled.

Who was arguing against it? Always seemed pretty straight-forward and obvious to me....

[ArbitraryWater]

Who was arguing against it? Always seemed pretty straight-forward and obvious to me....

Nahh.. lots of people were. It was mainly in me saying Bryant's season wasn't that great, which many people, like for example kuniva, disagreed with... I didnt think it was a legendary season. He among others disagreed.

[IllegalD]

#rentfree, b*tch.

Retired and still making thesis-long threads about him.

:lol :banana:

[Mr Feeny]

That's a well written post.

The fact that a past his prime Iverson suddenly put up 33.5 ppg and lebron james put up his career high ppg as a 21 year old says that there's a lot wrong with that season
Perhaps the defenses needed a year to adjust to the new interpretation of the handcheckng rules.

[ArbitraryWater]

That's a well written post.

The fact that a past his prime Iverson suddenly put up 33.5 ppg and lebron james put up his career high ppg as a 21 year old says that there's a lot wrong with that season
Perhaps the defenses needed a year to adjust to the new interpretation of the handcheckng rules.

the officiating calmed down after 6'4 Dwyane Wade, set the record for most FT's ever in a finals series, and Cuban accused the league of being rigged.

[imdaman99]

You're right OP. It was an average season. Any shmoe could have averaged 35 points that season. I'm pretty sure half the NBA was capable of having an 81 point game or outscoring an entire opposing team through 3 quarters if they really wanted to.

[aj1987]

the officiating calmed down after 6'4 Dwyane Wade, set the record for most FT's ever in a finals series, and Cuban accused the league of being rigged.
Is that why LeBron was attempting 16 FT's a game in the '09 ECF?

[ArbitraryWater]

You're right OP. It was an average season. Any shmoe could have averaged 35 points that season. I'm pretty sure half the NBA was capable of having an 81 point game or outscoring an entire opposing team through 3 quarters if they really wanted to.

and there we have our first moron sighting


Is that why LeBron was attempting 16 FT's a game in the '09 ECF?

will any following high FT volume series be of proof to you that the officiating since then has NOT calmed down? :oldlol:

You think the game is still officiated the same way? Moron x2.

[ArbitraryWater]

Who was arguing against it? Always seemed pretty straight-forward and obvious to me....

straight forward I tell ya... I wish.

[aj1987]

will any following high FT volume series be of proof to you that the officiating since then has NOT calmed down?

You think the game is still officiated the same way? Moron x2.
The **** are you babbling about, AutisticWater. I presented you with FACTS in the other thread about the '06 Finals and you ran away like a little bitch.

Anyways, why did LeBron deserve those FT's and not Wade?


You're right OP. It was an average season. Any shmoe could have averaged 35 points that season. I'm pretty sure half the NBA was capable of having an 81 point game or outscoring an entire opposing team through 3 quarters if they really wanted to.
Lets also not forget that Kobe had a ridiculous season the very next year as well. The only reason his PPG fell? His shot attempts dropped by like 5 a game.

[NBAGOAT]

It's not that outrageous to say Kobe played at roughly the same level from 06-08. 08 gets mentioned as a peak for him all the time. Still all 3 of those years are absolutely special and impactful offensively. Not sure if the numbers are right but his orapm is near the top of the league or at the top those 3 years. This is in a league with a whole bunch of offensive forces like Nash, Wade, Dirk, Lebron, CP3 and whole bunch of other scorers you listed.

[Mr Feeny]

The **** are you babbling about, AutisticWater. I presented you with FACTS in the other thread about the '06 Finals and you ran away like a little bitch.

Anyways, why did LeBron deserve those FT's and not Wade?


Lets also not forget that Kobe had a ridiculous season the very next year as well. The only reason his PPG fell? His shot attempts dropped by like 5 a game.

Not only did Kobe's scoring fall, but LeBron, iverson, Arenas and Pierce all dropped. If you think that's a coincidence, I don't know what to tell you.

Agree with you about the 2006 fwiw. A.w. is a dirk fan and never got over Wade obliterating Dallas and bringing the heat back from 2-0 down.

I think the regards to the 2016 officiating, everyone would agree with him because those are blatant facts. Lots of players had career highs that season and had their scoring drop the very following year.

[Mr Feeny]

It's not that outrageous to say Kobe played at roughly the same level from 06-08. 08 gets mentioned as a peak for him all the time. Still all 3 of those years are absolutely special and impactful offensively. Not sure if the numbers are right but his orapm is near the top of the league or at the top those 3 years. This is in a league with a whole bunch of offensive forces like Nash, Wade, Dirk, Lebron, CP3 and whole bunch of other scorers you listed.It's worth noting that he failed to hit 47% for all of these seasons, and that he wasn't even top 3 in PER for any of them.
His assists weren't there either in 2006. If he focuses on scoring, then his playmakers suffers drastically. And vice versa.
Personally, I think 31.5 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg on 48%fg is 》 35 ppg, 5 apg, 4.5 apg on 45%fg.


In 2008, Lebron lead the league in scoring and Garnett lead the league in ws/48 I think. Lebron also lead the league in per and would continue to do so all the way til the 2013 season (!):biggums:

[ArbitraryWater]

The **** are you babbling about, AutisticWater. I presented you with FACTS in the other thread about the '06 Finals and you ran away like a little bitch.

Anyways, why did LeBron deserve those FT's and not Wade?


Lets also not forget that Kobe had a ridiculous season the very next year as well. The only reason his PPG fell? His shot attempts dropped by like 5 a game.

What are you on about now? :oldlol:

Anyway, nobody is talking about deserved or not deserved... Wade deserved them, he exploited the rules to perfection... afterwards they toned it down.

[aj1987]

Not only did Kobe's scoring fall, but LeBron, iverson, Arenas and Pierce all dropped. If you think that's a coincidence, I don't know what to tell you.

I think the regards to the 2016 officiating, everyone would agree with him because those are blatant facts. Lots of players had career highs that season and had their scoring drop the very following year.
Look at the difference in the shots Kobe attempted as well.

Even in the '07 season, Gilbert pretty much averaged what he did the previous season as well. Even in '05, he was within 3 points of his '06 PPG.

AI was within a point a couple of times prior to the '06 season as well.

Same with LeBron. Dude was like within a point and a half of his '06 average 2 seasons after.

Wade had his career high like 3 seasons after.

Carmelo's PPG increase is/was not a surprise. Dude was in his third season and is/was a elite scorer.

Pierce had a similar scoring season before hand check was abolished and he was just entering his peak as well.

When you look at it as a whole, LeBron, Wade, Melo, Gilbert, etc. were just entering their primes and players like Kobe, Pierce, Dirk, etc. were in their primes and close to their peaks. The rules also were changed in '05. Yet, the players "peaked" in '06.

I'm just gonna say this one last thing. Kobe, arguably had his best season in '03. A season during which hand checking and illegal defenses were legal. It was a pretty efficient seasons as well, with percentages of 45/38/84. If you're going the route of saying that '06 onwards the scoring has been inflated because of the rule change, then you must admit that Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer than LeBron.


Agree with you about the 2006 fwiw. A.w. is a dirk fan and never got over Wade obliterating Dallas and bringing the heat back from 2-0 down.
I've noticed that about you. Even though you're a LeBron stan, you give Wade his proper dues. :cheers:


What are you on about now? :oldlol:
The thread in which, even though there was CLEAR photographic evidence (from multiple angles) that Wade got fouled by multiple players, you played dumb.


Anyway, nobody is talking about deserved or not deserved... Wade deserved them, he exploited the rules to perfection... afterwards they toned it down.
Were the refs whistle happy in '09 as well?

[NBAGOAT]

It's worth noting that he failed to hit 47% for all of these seasons, and that he wasn't even top 3 in PER for any of them.
His assists weren't there either in 2006. If he focuses on scoring, then his playmakers suffers drastically. And vice versa.
Personally, I think 31.5 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg on 48%fg is 》 35 ppg, 5 apg, 4.5 apg on 45%fg.


In 2008, Lebron lead the league in scoring and Garnett lead the league in ws/48 I think. Lebron also lead the league in per and would continue to do so all the way til the 2013 season (!):biggums:

Kobe takes a lot of 3's. His TS% those years is 55.9, 58, 57.6. That efficiency is very good. I think rapm is a pretty great way to measure impact and Kobe looks great with it on offense. You want a simpler stat. I read somewhere that after the Lakers got Gasol in 08, they put up a 117 ortg and this was with Bynum injured. That is absurd.

[MJ(Mean John)]

I just strenghtened the case so there could be no argument about it anymore.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6hXqSIJXI
Here, '06 LAL/MIA game, you actually have Collins/Kerr adressing those very issues at the 10 minute mark, as Kobe is fouled.



Lol what's your point brother??
I could play devils advocate and say (what the F is he supposed to do to satisfy your needs?? What other superstar doesn't have weird statistics and anyalifics to put something down if you look hard enough you'll find something. But what's the point??


You're obsessing about it. Why??

Everyone on this M.Board feels a certain way about KB and had a certain perception of him. Your little post isn't going to make anyone's opinion change in the least bit. It's not going to be the straw that broke the camels back.

People formed their own opinion, and will own that opinion and you aren't changing that. Why you so desperately desire to change it is beyond me. Lol so they don't share your opinion??? Who cares. Lol.

[ArbitraryWater]

Were the refs whistle happy in '09 as well?

No? Why? Because LeBron averaged 16 FTA? Again, slow one: Players from time to time will have high volume FTA series', to equate it with 2006, shows how much of a dumbass you are, though.


Lol what's your point brother??
I could play devils advocate and say (what the F is he supposed to do to satisfy your needs?? What other superstar doesn't have weird statistics and anyalifics to put something down if you look hard enough you'll find something. But what's the point??


You're obsessing about it. Why??

Everyone on this M.Board feels a certain way about KB and had a certain perception of him. Your little post isn't going to make anyone's opinion change in the least bit. It's not going to be the straw that broke the camels back.

People formed their own opinion, and will own that opinion and you aren't changing that. Why you so desperately desire to change it is beyond me. Lol so they don't share your opinion??? Who cares. Lol.

Hey dipshit, calm down... its clear this sting a bit due to your Kobe lovin' and all. FACE IT :cheers:

[aj1987]

No? Why? Because LeBron averaged 16 FTA? Again, slow one: Players from time to time will have high volume FTA series', to equate it with 2006, shows how much of a dumbass you are, though.
In short, you don't have an answer. Stick to smilies, AutisticWater.

[ArbitraryWater]

In short, you don't have an answer. Stick to smilies, AutisticWater.

Why do you think 2009 was officated the same way as 2006?
Has to be the most embarrassing case of cherry picking and straw man in this forum's history :biggums:

[tpols]

Some more information:

Kobe in 2006 playoffs and regular season combined, had more 50 pt games than the rest of the league combined.

[aj1987]

Why do you think 2009 was officated the same way as 2006?
You said '06 Finals was biased. Point out how it was biased. I already proved it wasn't. Several times, in fact.


Has to be the most embarrassing case of cherry picking and straw man in this forum's history :biggums:
Agreed. That's what you always do though, AutisticWater.

[ArbitraryWater]

You said '06 Finals was biased. Point out how it was biased. I already proved it wasn't. Several times, in fact.


Agreed. That's what you always do though, AutisticWater.

Yeah, you're imagining things, unless you're derailing this thread. 2006 was league wide very softly officated offensively, impossible for defenders, basically, listen to Kerr here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6hXqSIJXI

Got it on '06? I don't know, I thought a look at the OP would help here.. I have no problem explaining it for the people with special needs though :cheers:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Even more interesting to note that of Kobe's ~15 games of 50+ points in the 2006 and 2007 seasons, the average team record of the teams he ddropped 50 on was 39-43.

The average recordd of teams that he dropped 40+ on those years (like 50 games of 40+ iirc) was even worse, at like 37-45. Kobe has a long history of feasting on garbage teams in the regular season. That's why he only has one career 50+ point playoff game (of exactly 50 points), and needed OT to do it.

[34-24 Footwork]

Even more interesting to note that of Kobe's ~15 games of 50+ points in the 2006 and 2007 seasons, the average team record of the teams he ddropped 50 on was 39-43.

The average recordd of teams that he dropped 40+ on those years (like 50 games of 40+ iirc) was even worse, at like 37-45. Kobe has a long history of feasting on garbage teams in the regular season. That's why he only has one career 50+ point playoff game (of exactly 50 points), and needed OT to do it.

Did he need OT to score 81 or outscore the WCF champs in 2006 by himself in 3 quarters?

Your thoughts?

How about you list the teams and lets see if they were playoff teams or not?

[Bankaii]

The fact that his 2 greatest scoring performances came in an inflated scoring year in the regular season, one of which was against the worst defensive team in the NBA nonetheless, shows just how overrated Kobe's scoring is.

[CAstill]

Most prolific scoring season since mj. Top 3 scoring season of all time. Wilt, Mj, and Kobe. The holy trinity of scoring.

Top 10 scorers

Wilt
MJ
Kobe

Bird
Kareem
Shaq
Lebron

Wade
Dirk
Duncan (underrated scorer)

[aj1987]

Yeah, you're imagining things, unless you're derailing this thread. 2006 was league wide very softly officated offensively, impossible for defenders, basically, listen to Kerr here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ot6hXqSIJXI

Got it on '06? I don't know, I thought a look at the OP would help here.. I have no problem explaining it for the people with special needs though :cheers:
Do you even watch the games? I know that you're a casual and started watching like 4 seasons ago, but even casuals know that literally every old player complains about todays game. Everything from the players having a relatively clear path to the rim or the fouls.

I'll just leave this hear since you seemed to have missed it the first time around.

Look at the difference in the shots Kobe attempted as well.

Even in the '07 season, Gilbert pretty much averaged what he did the previous season as well. Even in '05, he was within 3 points of his '06 PPG.

AI was within a point a couple of times prior to the '06 season as well.

Same with LeBron. Dude was like within a point and a half of his '06 average 2 seasons after.

Wade had his career high like 3 seasons after.

Carmelo's PPG increase is/was not a surprise. Dude was in his third season and is/was a elite scorer.

Pierce had a similar scoring season before hand check was abolished and he was just entering his peak as well.

When you look at it as a whole, LeBron, Wade, Melo, Gilbert, etc. were just entering their primes and players like Kobe, Pierce, Dirk, etc. were in their primes and close to their peaks. The rules also were changed in '05. Yet, the players "peaked" in '06.

I'm just gonna say this one last thing. Kobe, arguably had his best season in '03. A season during which hand checking and illegal defenses were legal. It was a pretty efficient seasons as well, with percentages of 45/38/84. If you're going the route of saying that '06 onwards the scoring has been inflated because of the rule change, then you must admit that Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer than LeBron.


Most prolific scoring season since mj. Top 3 scoring season of all time. Wilt, Mj, and Kobe. The holy trinity of scoring.

Top 10 scorers

Wilt
MJ
Kobe

Bird
Kareem
Shaq
Lebron

Wade
Dirk
Duncan (underrated scorer)
Absolutely terrible list. No wonder you're a Brickbe stan.

[SouBeachTalents]

Most prolific scoring season since mj. Top 3 scoring season of all time. Wilt, Mj, and Kobe. The holy trinity of scoring.

Top 10 scorers

Wilt
MJ
Kobe

Bird
Kareem
Shaq
Lebron

Wade
Dirk
Duncan (underrated scorer)

Lmao, seriously, how the fucc do you have Duncan but not Durant, Gervin, McGrady etc?

[Mr Feeny]

Most prolific scoring season since mj. Top 3 scoring season of all time. Wilt, Mj, and Kobe. The holy trinity of scoring.

Top 10 scorers

Wilt
MJ
Kobe

Bird
Kareem
Shaq
Lebron

Wade
Dirk
Duncan (underrated scorer)

Kobe is a 24.9 ppg scorer on 44.7%fg and 32.9% 3fg. Why the heck would he be in this list?:roll
He's never once topped 40 points in any finals game in his 20 year career and is a 40%fg finals scorer:lol
That's weak stuff.

[Dragonyeuw]

It's not that outrageous to say Kobe played at roughly the same level from 06-08. 08 gets mentioned as a peak for him all the time. Still all 3 of those years are absolutely special and impactful offensively. Not sure if the numbers are right but his orapm is near the top of the league or at the top those 3 years. This is in a league with a whole bunch of offensive forces like Nash, Wade, Dirk, Lebron, CP3 and whole bunch of other scorers you listed.

People go gaga over the 2006 PPG but for me Kobe was better in 2003 and 2008, compared to 2006. 2008 was the best I saw from him in terms of leadership, game management of when to dominate and when to facilitate,and recommitted to defense.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I just think its weird how OP refuses to acknowledge Kobe's scoring feats and records that season. :oldlol:

Guess some of us are fortunate to see past blinded hate and call a spade a spade: Kobe had a legendary scoring season in 2006.

[ArbitraryWater]

I just think its weird how OP refuses to acknowledge Kobe's scoring feats and records that season. :oldlol:

Guess some of us are fortunate to see past blinded hate and call a spade a spade: Kobe had a legendary scoring season in 2006.

What do you think about every single perimeter all-star and perimeter 20 ppg scorer having their production increase, posting career highs?

Do you disagree with what Kerr and Collins said during the MIA/LAL game?

I'm not sure why you're so defensive on this topic, was the defense not a valid issue? A declining Iverson posted 33 ppg ffs :confusedshrug:

And as you see, someone else like Dragonyeuw, thought this shit was consensus... so yeah, its a few more than just 'OP', lol.

[ArbitraryWater]

Even more interesting to note that of Kobe's ~15 games of 50+ points in the 2006 and 2007 seasons, the average team record of the teams he ddropped 50 on was 39-43.

The average recordd of teams that he dropped 40+ on those years (like 50 games of 40+ iirc) was even worse, at like 37-45. Kobe has a long history of feasting on garbage teams in the regular season. That's why he only has one career 50+ point playoff game (of exactly 50 points), and needed OT to do it.

Oh no doubt, Kobe's high scoring games all generally come in the regular season, and besides the '06 Mavericks, its always terrible teams.

2006 Raptors, 2007 Grizzlies, 2007 Timberwolves, 2007 Hornets?

Not just bad defenses, but just bad teams.

He obviously was never able to repeat it in the playoffs. The one time he did, it was w/ 12 points coming in OT, against the D'Antoni no defense playing Suns.... not rocket science.

[ArbitraryWater]

@aj:

Thats all nice, we know Bron/Wade/Bosh etc were entering their primes, they were the only ones on that list in their third year, but its not just third year guys, on that list are players from 3rd year to 13th year, most notably, 10th year...

a declining Iverson suddenly had a huge resurgence... you dont just add 'a couple of points' that easily :oldlol:

LeBron saw a HUGE drop the next year, again, most did, you can cherry pick examples, which is easy out of 24 players, the fact is, every single perimeter all star barring Carter saw an increase in production. Its unprecedented.

The ones who didnt, did things like have their career high in TS% (KG). By all measures, its the biggest outlier season since the 1960's.

Accept it, or fight it.

[Dragonyeuw]

And as you see, someone else like Dragonyeuw, thought this shit was consensus... so yeah, its a few more than just 'OP', lol.

Not so much consensus, rarely is anything that definitive. Moreso just a generally accepted blip looking at seasons immediately before and after.

[aj1987]

Ugh. Do you not know how to read? Do I really have to copy+paste the same shit again?


@aj:

Thats all nice, we know Bron/Wade/Bosh etc were entering their primes, they were the only ones on that list in their third year, but its not just third year guys, on that list are players from 3rd year to 13th year, most notably, 10th year...

a declining Iverson suddenly had a huge resurgence... you dont just add 'a couple of points' that easily

AI was within a point a couple of times prior to the '06 season as well.

AI had 3 seasons of 30+ PPG, including 2 in which he scored 31.5 PPG.


LeBron saw a HUGE drop the next year, again, most did

Same with LeBron. Dude was like within a point and a half of his '06 average 2 seasons after.

Dude averaged 30 in '10, while taking like 3 fewer shots per game as well. This, while getting 9 assists a game. 1.5 fewer points, but a drop of 3 FGA's.


you can cherry pick examples, which is easy out of 24 players, the fact is, every single perimeter all star barring Carter saw an increase in production. Its unprecedented.
I just picked the first couple of players. I can literally do that for everyone of them.


The ones who didnt, did things like have their career high in TS% (KG).
True. He had a TS% of 58.9% in '06. Lets ignore his 58.8% in '08 though. Also, KG was 29 in '06. Damn close to his prime/peak. Lets ignore that as well.



By all measures, its the biggest outlier season since the 1960's.
:facepalm :facepalm

You're comparing a single season to an entire DECADE?


Accept it, or fight it.
I choose not to live in delusion? :confusedshrug:

The rules changed before the beginning of the '05 season. Care to post the stats from that season?

I'm just gonna say this one last thing. Kobe, arguably had his best season in '03. A season during which hand checking and illegal defenses were legal. It was a pretty efficient seasons as well, with percentages of 45/38/84. If you're going the route of saying that '06 onwards the scoring has been inflated because of the rule change, then you must admit that Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer than LeBron.

[Dragonyeuw]

Ugh. Do you not know how to read? Do I really have to copy+paste the same shit again?


AI was within a point a couple of times prior to the '06 season as well.

AI had 3 seasons of 30+ PPG, including 2 in which he scored 31.5 PPG.





The big thing with A.I was the efficiency bump. For a guard so reliant on being faster than everyone else, going from 31.4 to 33.00 isn't so much an anomaly as going from consistently shooting 40/41% to 45%, while increasing volume along with it at the point in his career it occurred( 10 seasons and 30/31 years old). Iverson's game never really evolved, and he pretty much fell off a cliff at 32/33, so those rules at least for him had to have helped. He was visibly slower in 2006 than he was during his MVP peak years. He was sometimes just barely able to get shots off against taller defenders at his peak, and that was greatly aided by out-quicking everyone.

[tpols]

The big thing with A.I was the efficiency bump. For a guard so reliant on being faster than everyone else, going from 31.4 to 33.00 isn't so much an anomaly as going from consistently shooting 40/41% to 45%, while increasing volume along with it at the point in his career it occurred( 10 seasons and 30/31 years old). Iverson's game never really evolved, and he pretty much fell off a cliff at 32/33, so those rules at least for him had to have have helped. He was visibly slower in 2006 than he was during his MVP peak years. He was sometimes just barely able to get shots off against taller defenders at his peak, and that was greatly aided by out-quicking everyone.

The rules tremendously helped small slashers like AI manuever around the court.. and get to the line more often. We can prove this by looking at his free throw rate (..or how many FTs he was awarded per shot attempted). AI in some of his prime years from 01 to 04 got .37 free throws per shot. In 2006, he got .46 .. a major bump.. and just in general peep his page, his FTr went up big time from early 00s to mid 00s rule changes.

Similarly, Wade in 06 had a staggering .56 FTr.. to give you an example how much things have changed, for the past five years Dwayne Wade has only gotten .35 free throws per shot.. a dramatic change.


Kobe, otoh, had a FTr of only .38 .. which is less than what he was doing in prime years before that.. and compared to Iverson and Wade's .55 + is a joke. This is because in a lot of Kobe's outbursts, he wasnt really doin it on free throws.. but midrange jumpshooting. Simply put, he got buckets, not whistles.


Basically, the rule changes gave consistent bumps to the averages of these slashers.. by giving them a few extra bones a game.. thats why they dont have the peak scoring Kobe had, but still had great averages because the charity stripe was smoothing it over.


AW still wont answer to the fact that Kobe had more 50's than rest of the league combined haha.





http://i.giphy.com/231fZ9lECp4zu.gif

[aj1987]

The big thing with A.I was the efficiency bump. For a guard so reliant on being faster than everyone else, going from 31.4 to 33.00 isn't so much an anomaly as going from consistently shooting 40/41% to 45%, while increasing volume along with it at the point in his career it occurred( 10 seasons and 30/31 years old). Iverson's game never really evolved, and he pretty much fell off a cliff at 32/33, so those rules at least for him had to have have helped. He was visibly slower in 2006 than he was during his MVP peak years.
That literally is probably the only outlier on that list though. Almost everyone on the list had similar scoring (+/- 1-2 points) seasons on similar efficiency (+/- 1%-2%).

Even we're going by OP's narrative that scoring was easier, it was by like a point or two. Kobe was absolutely a monster on the offensive end that season.


Similarly, Wade in 06 had a staggering .56 FTr.. to give you an example how much things have changed, for the past five years Dwayne Wade has only gotten .35 free throws per shot.. a dramatic change.

You're ignoring the FACT that Wade takes a lot more shots than Kobe at the rim. Also, Wade has been on a decline since '11.

[Dragonyeuw]

The rules tremendously helped small slashers like AI manuever around the court.. and get to the line more often. We can prove this by looking at his free throw rate (..or how many FTs he was awarded per shot attempted). AI in some of his prime years from 01 to 04 got .37 free throws per shot. In 2006, he got .46 .. a major bump.. and just in general peep his page, his FTr went up big time from early 00s to mid 00s rule changes.

Similarly, Wade in 06 had a staggering .56 FTr.. to give you an example how much things have changed, for the past five years Dwayne Wade has only gotten .35 free throws per shot.. a dramatic change.


Kobe, otoh, had a FTr of only .38 .. which is less than what he was doing in prime years before that.. and compared to Iverson and Wade's .55 + is a joke. This is because in a lot of Kobe's outbursts, he wasnt really doin it on free throws.. but midrange jumpshooting. Simply put, he got buckets, not whistles.





Did you get those stats off basketball ref? That's the only site I can access at work. What's Nash's FTr between 20013-2004, and then 2004 to about 2008?

[tpols]

Did you get those stats off basketball ref? That's the only site I can access at work. What's Nash's FTr between 20013-2004, and then 2004 to about 2008?

Nash's FTr never really changed across his whole career.. but FTr is a scoring metric.. the biggest boost Nash got from the rule changes was being able to run around the court free-er to make passes and playmake.. this isnt really captured in this stat though.. it's more for scorers. Nash did have a very low sub .3 FTr in almost every year of his career though.. he didnt get much respect from the refs.. being able to toss your body into the defender and flail ala iverson and wade was something he never had the strength, nor desire to do i guess.

[Mr Feeny]

People go gaga over the 2006 PPG but for me Kobe was better in 2003 and 2008, compared to 2006. 2008 was the best I saw from him in terms of leadership, game management of when to dominate and when to facilitate,and recommitted to defense.

Until the finals where he showed absolutely zero leadership and the Lakers choked the biggest lead in nba finals history on home court to let the Celtics go 3-1 up and effectively end the serie, right there in staples in front legends such as kareem and magic who watched on in shock at the lack of poise Kobe had as put on an abysmal performance. 7/20 I think.

In game 6, the Lakers were on the receiving end of the biggest destruction in finals closeout or elimination game history as they lost by 39 with Kobe getting ABUSED by Rondo.

Over the series, Pierce outplayed him and focused on getting his team involved. O have no idea how the Lakers didn't win that. In the biggest moments they came up short.

Game 4 was paramount and Kobe was just shocking and let the Celtics end the series right there in Los Angeles.

[Mr Feeny]

Oh no doubt, Kobe's high scoring games all generally come in the regular season, and besides the '06 Mavericks, its always terrible teams.

2006 Raptors, 2007 Grizzlies, 2007 Timberwolves, 2007 Hornets?

Not just bad defenses, but just bad teams.

He obviously was never able to repeat it in the playoffs. The one time he did, it was w/ 12 points coming in OT, against the D'Antoni no defense playing Suns.... not rocket science.

As you said he's just never been able to do it in the playoffs. He's never once topped 40 points in nba finals. He only has something like 11 playoff 40 point games in his entire career (lebron, a playmaker already has a ton more at 31).

Against the great teams, Kobe has usually been sub-par.

[tpols]

You're ignoring the FACT that Wade takes a lot more shots than Kobe at the rim. Also, Wade has been on a decline since '11.

of course wade has more attempts at the rim, thats why he was able to take advantage of the new rules better than a midrange player like Kobe..

you can look at Wade's free throw rate from 09 and 10.. still a full 10+ percentage points below 06.. he got a major bump that year any way you slice it. All quick, slashing perimeter players did because free throws were being handed out like candy for anybody who charged at the rim.


Slashing of course was never the primary part of Kobe's game, which is why his FTr was almost 20 percentage points below Wade's.. and 10 below Iverson's .. which pretty much debunks AW's rudimentary analysis that it was refs that helped him like all others.. no. And we have the numbers to prove it unfortunately for him.

[Mr Feeny]

of course wade has more attempts at the rim, thats why he was able to take advantage of the new rules better than a midrange player like Kobe..

you can look at Wade's free throw rate from 09 and 10.. still a full 10+ percentage points below 06.. he got a major bump that year any way you slice it. All quick, slashing perimeter players did because free throws were being handed out like candy for anybody who charged at the rim.


Slashing of course was never the primary part of Kobe's game, which is why his FTr was almost 20 percentage points below Wade's.. and 10 below Iverson's .. which pretty much debunks AW's rudimentary analysis that it was refs that helped him like all others.. no. And we have the numbers to prove it unfortunately for him.

You cant be this dumb, surely. Slashers get more FT's because they penetrate more. That's a given. That doesn't mean they benefited more from the rules. Kobe is a jump shooter who defenders couldn't get within a yard of because of the new handcheckng rules. So he was taking open jumper after open jumper. And he was putting up his career high in points.
That dropped the following year and further the following year before he began settling on 27 ppg.

When Kobe is bodied, as he is in finals, he is a 40% shooter. There's a reason he's continuously awful in finals.

[aj1987]

you can look at Wade's free throw rate from 09 and 10.. still a full 10+ percentage points below 06.. he got a major bump that year any way you slice it. All quick, slashing perimeter players did because free throws were being handed out like candy for anybody who charged at the rim.


Slashing of course was never the primary part of Kobe's game, which is why his FTr was almost 20 percentage points below Wade's.. and 10 below Iverson's .. which pretty much debunks AW's rudimentary analysis that it was refs that helped him like all others.. no. And we have the numbers to prove it unfortunately for him.
I don't get what you're trying to argue.

#1. Wade has a higher FTr, because he drives more to the hoop.
#2. Kobes is nothing exceptional because he takes too many jumpers.
#3. Wade had a higher FTr in '05.
#4. Wade was only like 5 points away in '08 as well.

So, how exactly was he taking advantage in '06, when he had similar seasons multiple times?

[Prime_Shaq]

While it was inflated, nobody did reach the plateau that Kobe did. Still a remarkable scoring season from him.

[tpols]

I don't get what you're trying to argue.

#1. Wade has a higher FTr, because he drives more to the hoop.
#2. Kobes is nothing exceptional because he takes too many jumpers.
#3. Wade had a higher FTr in '05.
#4. Wade was only like 5 points away in '08 as well.

So, how exactly was he taking advantage in '06, when he had similar seasons multiple times?

all im saying is that slashers and penetrators aka guys who "drive more to the hoop" benefited more from the rule changes than a midrange player like Kobe did.. and this is reflected in how many free throws they were getting per shot.




https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/fd/40/31/fd4031bd2b3b454ee0fde4a058e28780.jpg


down boy.

*pats head*

[ArbitraryWater]

AJ, at this point, you're just repeating your same old tired shit.. really... a declining Iverson magically added a few points, right?

"Same with LeBron. Dude was like within a point and a half of his '06 average 2 seasons after."

Yeah, LeBron managed to get within a point and a half two years later, as far better player....

nice, you really made your point there! Goddammit dude :facepalm The more you talk the more stupidity.

21/24 20+ ppg scorers saw an increase in production. Three 30+ ppg scorers, AND Arenas at 29.3. The last time 3+ players averaged 30+ points per game was 1981/1982.

3 30+ ppg scorers only happened 6 times in the entire history of the NBA. 1975, 1982, and 2006 are the only ones outside of the 1960's.

The most 24+ ppg players in one season ever (12). A total of 24 20+ ppg scorers.

Do you comprende? Is this just one big massive coincedence?

I said:

"By all measures, its the biggest outlier season since the 1960's."

You say:

"You're comparing a single season to an entire DECADE?"

Sorry, but you're officially retarded.

[ArbitraryWater]

While it was inflated, nobody did reach the plateau that Kobe did. Still a remarkable scoring season from him.

No doubt, but still, tremendously inflated.

[ArbitraryWater]

That literally is probably the only outlier on that list though. Almost everyone on the list had similar scoring (+/- 1-2 points) seasons on similar efficiency (+/- 1%-2%).

What about Mike James for one season looking like a star with an 8 ppg increase and then dropping off to nothing again? :oldlol:


The big thing with A.I was the efficiency bump. For a guard so reliant on being faster than everyone else, going from 31.4 to 33.00 isn't so much an anomaly as going from consistently shooting 40/41% to 45%, while increasing volume along with it at the point in his career it occurred( 10 seasons and 30/31 years old). Iverson's game never really evolved, and he pretty much fell off a cliff at 32/33, so those rules at least for him had to have helped. He was visibly slower in 2006 than he was during his MVP peak years. He was sometimes just barely able to get shots off against taller defenders at his peak, and that was greatly aided by out-quicking everyone.

Do not expect him to understand. His stubborn mind is set.

[aj1987]

all im saying is that slashers and penetrators aka guys who "drive more to the hoop" benefited more from the rule changes than a midrange player like Kobe did.. and this is reflected in how many free throws they were getting per shot.
I remember arguing about FTr like 2-3 years ago. I posted an example about how West had a higher career FTr than Wade. As did Magic a several other. How did they "benefit"?


What about Mike James for one season looking like a star with an 8 ppg increase and then dropping off to nothing again?
:facepalm

Do you even know who Mike James is? Look at his shots attempts. That was his first WHOLE season as a starter on a garbage ass team. Look at what happened to Ricky Davis. Shot attempts and roles matter as well.

Context, AutisticWater. If you are actually doing this to try to learn more about basketball, I suggest google.



Do not expect him to understand. His stubborn mind is set.
You started watching basketball in '12. I wouldn't expect you to understand about stuff that happened when you were still in diapers.

[ArbitraryWater]

A 21 year old LeBron had by far his career high in ppg... crazy.

[chazzy]

It's only Kobe's 8th highest FTr of his career

[aj1987]

AJ, at this point, you're just repeating your same old tired shit.. really... a declining Iverson magically added a few points, right?
He's literally one of the few who actually did that. With efficiency as well.


Yeah, LeBron managed to get within a point and a half two years later, as far better player....
'08 LeBron was not a "far better" player than '06 LeBron. How would you know that though.


21/24 20+ ppg scorers saw an increase in production. Three 30+ ppg scorers, AND Arenas at 29.3. The last time 3+ players averaged 30+ points per game was 1981/1982.
With the vast majority of the playing hitting either their primes or peaks.


3 30+ ppg scorers only happened 6 times in the entire history of the NBA. 1975, 1982, and 2006 are the only ones outside of the 1960's.
So, what happened in '75 and '82?


Sorry, but you're officially retarded.
AutisticWater, you really shouldn't be calling other retarded.

Funny how you keep ignoring this part, because it doesn't suit your agenda of bashing Kobe:

The rules changed before the beginning of the '05 season. Care to post the stats from that season?

I'm just gonna say this one last thing. Kobe, arguably had his best season in '03. A season during which hand checking and illegal defenses were legal. It was a pretty efficient seasons as well, with percentages of 45/38/84. If you're going the route of saying that '06 onwards the scoring has been inflated because of the rule change, then you must admit that Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer than LeBron.


Stick to OTC, AutisticWater. Casuals who started watching like 4 years ago do not really belong here anyways.


It's only Kobe's 8th highest FTr of his career
According to these LeBeon turds, it doesn't count though. Even though the rules were actually changed the PREVIOUS season.

[jstern]

Very informative info that can be referenced in the future.

[ArbitraryWater]

Very informative info that can be referenced in the future.

:cheers:

[ArbitraryWater]

Okay AJ.. let me try reaaaaaaally slow with you... all the way from the start...

do you believe in things such as outliers existing? You did have school in India, right? Did you have a Biology class? Math? Are outliers real?

[aj1987]

Okay AJ.. let me try reaaaaaaally slow with you... all the way from the start...

do you believe in things such as outliers existing? You did have school in India, right? Did you have a Biology class? Math? Are outliers real?
Kid, run along. This is way above your comprehension level. Run away like you always do, when presented with FACTS and STATS. Or, just keep bringing up straw man arguments like you are now.

I don't even know why I'm bothering with a casual who started watching basketball 4 years ago. :facepalm

EDIT: While you're at it, look up the meaning of context. They have English dictionaries in Germany, right? If not, you can just use Google Translate, although it might be a bit complicated for someone with your level of intelligence.

[ArbitraryWater]

Okay AJ.. let me try reaaaaaaally slow with you... all the way from the start...

do you believe in things such as outliers existing? You did have school in India, right? Did you have a Biology class? Math? Are outliers real?

Yes or no? Maybe you will leave the path of retard if you answer, I will try my best to help educate my brown friends :lol

[aj1987]

Yes or no? Maybe you will leave the path of retard if you answer, I will try my best to help educate my brown friends :lol
As I said, you know you've lost, AutisticWater, and are sticking to your retarded straw man arguments.

Move on and hold this L, Kraut.

[knicksman]

In the end, only losers settle for lebron rings. Alphas dont respect cowards.

[Mr Feeny]

It's only Kobe's 8th highest FTr of his career

Sure. Defenders didn't want to go close to Kobe because of the new handcheckng rules. So he was getting open jumpers and wasn't being bodied up on defense. He scored his career high in points as did an older Iverson, Arenas, a 21 year old lebron and many others. They ALL had their scoring decrease the following season, ofcourse.

[IllegalD]

Sure. Defenders didn't want to go close to Kobe because of the new handcheckng rules. So he was getting open jumpers and wasn't being bodied up on defense. He scored his career high in points as did an older Iverson, Arenas, a 21 year old lebron and many others. They ALL had their scoring decrease the following season, ofcourse.


And yet Kobe still followed it up with an equally historic scoring season in 2007:

10 50+ point games in ONE season (with a legendary streak of 4 STRAIGHT 50+ point games)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hero-ball-kobe-bryants-legendary-50-point-game-streak-in-perspective/

:eek: :bowdown: :banana:

[SexSymbol]

The rules are the same for everybody.
So if he outshined everyone else so marvelously, why try to downplay it if all of them were on the same platform?
And not to mention that his next year's effort is just as good with 10 50+ point games and injury made him score a measly 31 ppg

[Mr Feeny]

And yet Kobe still followed it up with an equally historic scoring season in 2007:

10 50+ point games in ONE season (with a legendary streak of 4 STRAIGHT 50+ point games)

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/hero-ball-kobe-bryants-legendary-50-point-game-streak-in-perspective/

:eek: :bowdown: :banana:

His scoring dropped by 4 ppg. That's our point.

[Mr Feeny]

The rules are the same for everybody.
So if he outshined everyone else so marvelously, why try to downplay it if all of them were on the same platform?
And not to mention that his next year's effort is just as good with 10 50+ point games and injury made him score a measly 31 ppg

Everyone IS judged by the same standard. All numbers were inflated that season.

Heck, a baby lebron averaged 31.5 ppg, 7 apg and 6 apg on 48%!

[aj1987]

His scoring dropped by 4 ppg. That's our point.
His FGA's dropped by like 5 and his FG% increased as well. :confusedshrug:

[Mr Feeny]

His FGA's dropped by like 5 and his FG% increased as well. :confusedshrug:

Sure. And it's a smarter way to play because shooting 45% is abysmal. If he can take less shots and take better shots,he should have been doing that. The more you shoot, the more difficult it is to maintain efficiency.

He played 20 seasons of basketball. It's not a coincidence his career high came in the same year that saw lebron,Arenas an a host of others set career highs.

There's no way 21 year old lebron is a better scorer than 2008-2013 lebron and yet he averaged a full 1.5 ppg more than his 2nd best scoring season.

[aj1987]

Sure. And it's a smarter way to play because shooting 45% is abysmal. If he can take less shots and take better shots,he should have been doing that. The more you shoot, the more difficult it is to maintain efficiency.
If you're talking 25 shots a game and one player shoots 45% and the other 50%, the 45% player is missing just one more shot per game than the 50% guy. One shot is the difference between 45% and 50%. Again, this isn't TS%, which takes FT's and 3's into account, but strictly FG%.


He played 20 seasons of basketball. It's not a coincidence his career high came in the same year that saw lebron,Arenas an a host of others set career highs.
Right in the middle of his prime and the worst roster he played on in his life. He's going to take a shit ton of shots and score a LOT.


There's no way 21 year old lebron is a better scorer than 2008-2013 lebron and yet he averaged a full 1.5 ppg more than his 2nd best scoring season.
He's a smarter scorer for sure. The guy averaged 30 PPG on 60% along with 9 assists a game in '10. Don't you think he could've averaged over 33 a game, if he wanted to score a bit more, with the number of FGA's he took in '06?

[Mr Feeny]

If you're talking 25 shots a game and one player shoots 45% and the other 50%, the 45% player is missing just one more shot per game than the 50% guy. One shot is the difference between 45% and 50%. Again, this isn't TS%, which takes FT's and 3's into account, but strictly FG%.


Right in the middle of his prime and the worst roster he played on in his life. He's going to take a shit ton of shots and score a LOT.


He's a smarter scorer for sure. The guy averaged 30 PPG on 60% along with 9 assists a game in '10. Don't you think he could've averaged over 33 a game, if he wanted to score a bit more, with the number of FGA's he took in '06?

You cant be this obtuse. I agreed with you over some of your points last time but with this, I cant see how anyone would try to argue that it's a complete coincidence that 5-6 all put up their career high in ppg all of a sudden right after the reinterpretation of the handcheckng rules only to see their scoring decrease significantly the following year.

Not 1. Not 2. Not 3. 9 out of the top 10 scorers were perimeter players. It was unprecedented.
Kobe only averaged 30+ one more time the rest of the way and that was the following season after a sudden drop of of 4ppg
If 2006 was right in the middle of Kobe's prime, then so was 2005 and he only averaged 27 ppg on 43%fg.
Iverson was FURTHER away from his prime and averaged more. Scrubs were scoring at a high rate.

You can't possible be arguing that 2006 wasn't an anomaly. We can play hypothetical all we want. If any of those players were capable of scoring like they did in their 2006 season in later seasons, they would have .
Instead, as the defenses adjusted and fouls were being called less frequently, they all found themselves bodied up and realised you can't shoot as much as you did that year and score as much. Defenders weren't allowed to guard anyone that season. They were afterwards. It took a year or 2. It wasn't an all of a sudden thing with every single player, but the difference was noticeable next season and was DRASTIC by 2008. Kobe wasn't anywhere near the scorer he was during the free handcheckng year. Neither was Michael redd. Neither were any of them.

[ArbitraryWater]

AJ really thinks this is just one big coincedence.. wouldnt want to be a bit extra critical, dont want to hurt our heads thinkin too much eh :lol

Going full Kobe dicksucker in this one... "the difference between 45% and 50% is just one shot" lol

Feeny, I applaud you for trying with him :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

I like AJ. I'm not sure why he's so defensive. As you said, it's only the Kobe stans on here protesting because pointing out an anomaly would take away from their idol's achievement.

Regarding AJ, Wade took advantage of the rules and put on one of the greatest - and perhaps the most clutch - Finals performance of all time. It doesn't diminish anything he did. So I don't get the urge to validate Wade's performance by insisting the increase in scoring by all these stars was a coincidence. That's just weird!

[SexSymbol]

Everyone IS judged by the same standard. All numbers were inflated that season.

Heck, a baby lebron averaged 31.5 ppg, 7 apg and 6 apg on 48%!
so what about the 07 season? Kobe was just as good that year

[SexSymbol]

AJ really thinks this is just one big coincedence.. wouldnt want to be a bit extra critical, dont want to hurt our heads thinkin too much eh :lol

Going full Kobe dicksucker in this one... "the difference between 45% and 50% is just one shot" lol

Feeny, I applaud you for trying with him :applause:
Why do you feel the need to resort to personal insults? Is it because your original and subsequent arguments are weak?

And it is one shot, count the numbers yourself if you want

[Mr Feeny]

so what about the 07 season? Kobe was just as good that year

Did he average anywhere near as much?
No?
That's our point.

[chazzy]

Did he average anywhere near as much?
No?
That's our point.
Only you Euro Lebron stans who started watching the game in 2011 wouldn't know he had off season knee surgery prior to that year and had a slow start. He averaged 38ppg (58 TS%) in the last 35 games of the season including several 40ppg months and 10 50pt games for the year. Lol at "defenses getting tougher in 07." Lebron losing his jumper that year wasn't because of better defense

[ArbitraryWater]

Only you Euro Lebron stans who started watching the game in 2011 wouldn't know he had off season knee surgery prior to that year and had a slow start. He averaged 38ppg (58 TS%) in the last 35 games of the season including several 40ppg months and 10 50pt games for the year. Lol at "defenses getting tougher in 07." Lebron losing his jumper that year wasn't because of better defense

always have to exclude some stretch for Kobe to make his average 'fair' :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Only you Euro Lebron stans who started watching the game in 2011 wouldn't know he had off season knee surgery prior to that year and had a slow start. He averaged 38ppg (58 TS%) in the last 35 games of the season including several 40ppg months and 10 50pt games for the year. Lol at "defenses getting tougher in 07." Lebron losing his jumper that year wasn't because of better defense

Why exactly do you think you're in any position to make up a random year that I "started watching basketball in"?

He lost 20 of the last 22 games. He was abysmal the entire season. 43% is awful whether we want to give your idol leeway for screwing the pooch in the first half of the season or not.
He was fit to go and perfectly healthy by November. But he shot abysmally. High is not unexpected from Kobe.

[ArbitraryWater]

Why exactly do you think you're in any position to make up a random year that I "started watching basketball in"?

He lost 20 of the last 22 games. He was abysmal the entire season. 43% is awful whether we want to give your idol leeway for screwing the pooch in the first half of the season or not.
He was fit to go and perfectly healthy by November. But he shot abysmally. High is not unexpected from Kobe.

This time he meant 2007, another season where you have to cut off a time period in order to adjust Kobe's stats, apparently.

[Spurs m8]

Kobe is nothing but a very poor man's Kawhi.

At best.

[chazzy]

always have to exclude some stretch for Kobe to make his average 'fair' :lol
Don't be mad that I'm blowing up your failed attempt at discrediting a historic scoring season. His FTr was his 8th highest in 06. He clearly was just as capable of scoring in dominant fashion a year after, the defenses didn't suddenly change in 07.

[ArbitraryWater]

Don't be mad that I'm blowing up your failed attempt at discrediting a historic scoring season. His FTr was his 8th highest in 06. He clearly was just as capable of scoring in dominant fashion a year after, the defenses didn't suddenly change in 07.

:roll:

He's jumping on tpols' FTr shtick :oldlol:

No, it didnt go: shit defense, okay defense... but youre gonna deny that '06 wasnt incredibly beneficial towards perimeter scorers? Really? If you wanna deny the facts in the OP, at least take it from Kerr/Collins..

[tpols]

dubs, you've been slayed. thats why you never addressed my posts.. you can't.


Your deduction that kobe's 2006 season is overrated because the rules made it easier for perimeter players to score hinges on the fact that top players were getting more free throws / calls.. which they all did, except Kobe.. whose rate actually went down.

and you also ignore the fact that it was Kobe's heat check streaks that were remarkable, not just his baseline averages. Kobe still had more 50 point games than every guy you listed combined in that year.


you still hadnt popped your basketball cherry for another what 5-6 years after these events unfolded? you know its bad when its just you and feeny here like a couple of bozos patting each other backs haha.. too funny.

[Smoke117]

kobriiiiiiiiiiiick

[chazzy]

you know its bad when its just you and feeny here like a couple of bozos patting each other backs haha.. too funny.
:oldlol:

[Mr Feeny]

This time he meant 2007, another season where you have to cut off a time period in order to adjust Kobe's stats, apparently.

Oh boy. The Kobe stans have their own view on this it seems:lol

[aj1987]

You cant be this obtuse. I agreed with you over some of your points last time but with this, I cant see how anyone would try to argue that it's a complete coincidence that 5-6 all put up their career high in ppg all of a sudden right after the reinterpretation of the handcheckng rules only to see their scoring decrease significantly the following year.
The rules were changed PRIOR to the '05 season. The same rules are still in place today as well. You keep ignoring this part of my post, BTW:

I'm just gonna say this one last thing. Kobe, arguably had his best season in '03. A season during which hand checking and illegal defenses were legal. It was a pretty efficient seasons as well, with percentages of 45/38/84. If you're going the route of saying that '06 onwards the scoring has been inflated because of the rule change, then you must admit that Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer than LeBron.


Kobe only averaged 30+ one more time the rest of the way and that was the following season after a sudden drop of of 4ppg
Kobe averaged 30 PRIOR to the rule change as well. In '03. IIRC, he had his career high in assists that season as well. 30/7/6 on good efficiency.


If 2006 was right in the middle of Kobe's prime, then so was 2005 and he only averaged 27 ppg on 43%fg.
Kobe was playing injured that season.


You can't possible be arguing that 2006 wasn't an anomaly. We can play hypothetical all we want. If any of those players were capable of scoring like they did in their 2006 season in later seasons, they would have .
Instead, as the defenses adjusted and fouls were being called less frequently, they all found themselves bodied up and realised you can't shoot as much as you did that year and score as much. Defenders weren't allowed to guard anyone that season. They were afterwards. It took a year or 2. It wasn't an all of a sudden thing with every single player, but the difference was noticeable next season and was DRASTIC by 2008. Kobe wasn't anywhere near the scorer he was during the free handcheckng year. Neither was Michael redd. Neither were any of them.
Wade, Bosh, Dirk, Redd, Melo, etc. all had higher PPG's before or after the '06 season.

Again, the rules were changed BEFORE the '05 season.



"the difference between 45% and 50% is just one shot" lol
What's going on with the German education system?

Player A - 20 shots on 50% = 10 made FG's
Player B - 20 shots on 45% = 9 made FG's

Simple math. Even a 10 year could do it.

Lets take a practical example.

LeBron - 27 PPG on 50% and 20 shots a game (10 made FG's)
Bryant - 25 PPG on 45% and 20 shots a game (9 made FG's)

The 5% difference in FG% literally comes down to LeBron making one shot more than Kobe.

If you can't understand this, I really don't know if I can dumb it down further.

[Mr Feeny]

The rules were changed PRIOR to the '05 season. The same rules are still in place today as well. You keep ignoring this part of my post, BTW:

I'm just gonna say this one last thing. Kobe, arguably had his best season in '03. A season during which hand checking and illegal defenses were legal. It was a pretty efficient seasons as well, with percentages of 45/38/84. If you're going the route of saying that '06 onwards the scoring has been inflated because of the rule change, then you must admit that Kobe is unquestionably a better scorer than LeBron.


Kobe averaged 30 PRIOR to the rule change as well. In '03. IIRC, he had his career high in assists that season as well. 30/7/6 on good efficiency.


Kobe was playing injured that season.


Wade, Bosh, Dirk, Redd, Melo, etc. all had higher PPG's before or after the '06 season.

Again, the rules were changed BEFORE the '05 season.



What's going on with the German education system?

Player A - 20 shots on 50% = 10 made FG's
Player B - 20 shots on 45% = 9 made FG's

Simple math. Even a 10 year could do it.

Lets take a practical example.

LeBron - 27 PPG on 50% and 20 shots a game (10 made FG's)
Bryant - 25 PPG on 45% and 20 shots a game (9 made FG's)

The 5% difference in FG% literally comes down to LeBron making one shot more than Kobe.

If you can't understand this, I really don't know if I can dumb it down further.

Ok this is a getting a little insulting now.

1-I wasn't ignoring a single post you made. Kobe scored 30 ppg in 2003 when he had single coverage and little defensive attention because he had the most dominant center of the past 2 decades in his team. He SHOULD be getting easier shots. He SHOULD be shooting better percentages. That's very different from Kobe doing it without that stacked Lakers team.

2- Kobe is NOT a better scorer than lebron james and it's it's a waste of my time even responding to a point this insane.

3- Kobe was most definitely NOT playing injured 2005. He got injured for 4 short weeks in February before coming back for the last 2 months of the season and stinking up the place by losing 20 of the last 22 games to choke away their playoff spot. He's spot hot 43% And less before and sense. Shooting that poorly is not an anomaly and doesn't have to be explained by talking about "injuries"

4- While that's true, it doesn't change the fact that Lebron, Kobe, Arenas, Redd, Pierce I believe, and plenty others all had career highs in the SAME season .
To mention a bunch of players and say that they all had other individual seasons in which they topped their 2006 marks doesn't help that argument. If they all had their top individual ppg seasons coincidentally take place in the SAME season (let's say 2009 for example), you'd have a case.
As it is their top ppg seasons are scattered randomly across their careers. In the meantime, many of the top perimeter players all had their careers highs in 2006 specifically. Not 2004. Not 2005. 2006. 2007.

I won't address the final point because it was intended to a.w. and he can argue on his behalf but you sound exactly the same as Kobe fanboys. The rest of the elite perimeter players in the league shoot close to 50% and one guy mysteriously shoots worse than everyone else year after year. Trying to minimise attention on the damage that does to a team is just strange.
How many games come to the final possession or even finish with a <5 point loss.

Here's a scenario.
Player A makes 8 of 20 shots and his team trail by 2 possessions with 50 seconds to go because he shot poorly up to that point. His team will play the foul game and end up inevitably losing, perhaps by more than 3-4 points as the other team hits foul shots they wouldn't have been provided with had the game been within a possession.

Player B (lebron) shot 9-10 of his 20 shots and it's a 1 possession game or even a tie game with 50 seconds to go. Don't you see how this changes the game completely?:biggums:
It's not even about the final score. Many games are between 3-5 points with a minute to go.

THAT is where the difference between 50% and 44% is huge. That is what changes the game and things go from being in the balance to out of reach.
That one shot changes the game to a 2 possession game and the final score.

It's never more important than in the big games when the teams are close. And it's why a Lebron james is considered a much better scorer.

I guess I did address the last point lol.

[aj1987]

1-I wasn't ignoring a single post you made. Kobe scored 30 ppg in 2003 when he had single coverage and little defensive attention because he had the most dominant center of the past 2 decades in his team. He SHOULD be getting easier shots. He SHOULD be shooting better percentages. That's very different from Kobe doing it without that stacked Lakers team.
Bruh, you really should watch the Shaq-Kobe Laker games. Kobe was getting doubled/tripled a shit. Heck, it was even happening in the PO's. IIRC, Madsen and ImKobe posted a ton of gifs on this board.


2- Kobe is NOT a better scorer than lebron james and it's it's a waste of my time even responding to a point this insane.
I agree with you. I do think that LeBron's a better and a smarter scorer.However, you're saying that LeBron is not able to get to 30 points even with the weaker rules. Considering the FACT that Kobe actually hit 30 in a tougher defensive environment, that basically implies that Kobe is a better scorer than LeBron.

Again, Kobe averaged 30 a game WITH hand checking. LeBron hit 30 a game twice in a weaker defensive era.


3- Kobe was most definitely NOT playing injured 2005. He got injured for 4 short weeks in February before coming back for the last 2 months of the season and stinking up the place by losing 20 of the last 22 games to choke away their playoff spot. He's spot hot 43% And less before and sense. Shooting that poorly is not an anomaly and doesn't have to be explained by talking about "injuries"
This is the season AFTER the rule change, BTW. Kobe averaged 28/7/7 before his injury. Dude was playing injured in '04 and '05. That and you're ignoring the fact that Kobe took 20 shots to average 28 in '05 and 27 to average 35 in '06. That's a massive increase in shot attempts.

http://www.espn.in/nba/news/story?id=1967155
http://www.givemesport.com/748444-chronicling-the-injuries-that-brought-the-curtain-down-on-kobe-bryants-career


4- While that's true, it doesn't change the fact that Lebron, Kobe, Arenas, Redd, Pierce I believe, and plenty others all had career highs in the SAME season .
To mention a bunch of players and say that they all had other individual seasons in which they topped their 2006 marks doesn't help that argument. If they all had their top individual ppg seasons coincidentally take place in the SAME season (let's say 2009 for example), you'd have a case.
As it is their top ppg seasons are scattered randomly across their careers. In the meantime, many of the top perimeter players all had their careers highs in 2006 specifically. Not 2004. Not 2005. 2006. 2007.
Again, you're blatantly ignoring the increase in FGA's, players hitting their primes and peaks, and the fact the rules actually changed in the PREVIOUS season.


Player A makes 8 of 20 shots and his team trail by 2 possessions with 50 seconds to go because he shot poorly up to that point. His team will play the foul game and end up inevitably losing, perhaps by more than 3-4 points as the other team hits foul shots they wouldn't have been provided with had the game been within a possession.

Player B (lebron) shot 9-10 of his 20 shots and it's a 1 possession game or even a tie game with 50 seconds to go. Don't you see how this changes the game completely?:biggums:
It's not even about the final score. Many games are between 3-5 points with a minute to go.
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

Are you actually being serious with that? Can't really tell.


THAT is where the difference between 50% and 44% is huge. That is what changes the game and things go from being in the balance to out of reach.
That one shot changes the game to a 2 possession game and the final score.

It's never more important than in the big games when the teams are close. And it's why a Lebron james is considered a much better scorer.

These two actually work AGAINST you. Considering the fact that Kobe is a flat out better shooter and midrange player (according to you, 4%-5% is a massive difference, right). In close games, lanes to the basket are taken away. This basically renders LeBron useless, considering the FACT that he's a 35% shooter (on jumpshots) in the PO's. Going by your posts, that number is abysmal. Heck, even if LeBron's team is down just one possession, who would want the ball in his hand? A player who shoots 35% on jumpshots. There's a reason as to why Kobe has significantly more game winners than LeBron as well. Kobe is a better shooter. Factoring in FT's, that just increases it more in Kobe's favor. Kobe is a career 84% FT shooter, compared to LeBron's 74%. A humungous 10% difference.

One more scenario but with their teams holding onto leads. Once again, considering that LeBron is a liability on jumpers and FT's, Kobe's the better option to go with.

So, yeah, either that 1 shot is basically negligible, or Kobe is a more reliable player to go to down the stretch.

[Inferno]

Don't you guys ever get tired of arguing the same Bron vs Kobe stuff? :facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

Bruh, you really should watch the Shaq-Kobe Laker games. Kobe was getting doubled/tripled a shit. Heck, it was even happening in the PO's. IIRC, Madsen and ImKobe posted a ton of gifs on this board.


I agree with you. I do think that LeBron's a better and a smarter scorer.However, you're saying that LeBron is not able to get to 30 points even with the weaker rules. Considering the FACT that Kobe actually hit 30 in a tougher defensive environment, that basically implies that Kobe is a better scorer than LeBron.

Again, Kobe averaged 30 a game WITH hand checking. LeBron hit 30 a game twice in a weaker defensive era.


This is the season AFTER the rule change, BTW. Kobe averaged 28/7/7 before his injury. Dude was playing injured in '04 and '05. That and you're ignoring the fact that Kobe took 20 shots to average 28 in '05 and 27 to average 35 in '06. That's a massive increase in shot attempts.

http://www.espn.in/nba/news/story?id=1967155
http://www.givemesport.com/748444-chronicling-the-injuries-that-brought-the-curtain-down-on-kobe-bryants-career


Again, you're blatantly ignoring the increase in FGA's, players hitting their primes and peaks, and the fact the rules actually changed in the PREVIOUS season.


:biggums: :biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

Are you actually being serious with that? Can't really tell.



These two actually work AGAINST you. Considering the fact that Kobe is a flat out better shooter and midrange player (according to you, 4%-5% is a massive difference, right). In close games, lanes to the basket are taken away. This basically renders LeBron useless, considering the FACT that he's a 35% shooter (on jumpshots) in the PO's. Going by your posts, that number is abysmal. Heck, even if LeBron's team is down just one possession, who would want the ball in his hand? A player who shoots 35% on jumpshots. There's a reason as to why Kobe has significantly more game winners than LeBron as well. Kobe is a better shooter. Factoring in FT's, that just increases it more in Kobe's favor. Kobe is a career 84% FT shooter, compared to LeBron's 74%. A humungous 10% difference.

One more scenario but with their teams holding onto leads. Once again, considering that LeBron is a liability on jumpers and FT's, Kobe's the better option to go with.

So, yeah, either that 1 shot is basically negligible, or Kobe is a more reliable player to go to down the stretch.

Good God. Let me get home and I'll respond. This post almost gave me brain cancer.

[aj1987]

Good God. Let me get home and I'll respond. This post almost gave me brain cancer.
Your blind frothing hate for Kobe has turned you into a delusional troll. Nothing more to say.

[chazzy]

Why didn't anyone else maintain their scoring dominance in 2007? Kobe scored 38ppg for nearly half of the damn season and had 10 50pt games. Why didn't anyone maintain dominant scoring on that level the next year? Maybe Kobe was just that good...? Shocking I know. It's hard to fathom that without discrediting the state of the league

[riseagainst]

Feeny getting destroyed.

:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Good God. Let me get home and I'll respond. This post almost gave me brain cancer.

Bruh.. I legit need a break from that clown right now lol. Will respond another time.

[aj1987]

Bruh.. I legit need a break from that clown right now lol. Will respond another time.
In short, you got destroyed.

Why do you want to talk about the '06 season, when you started watching basketball in '11?

[brownmamba00]

what a waste of time...half of this board was still running around in diapers around '06 but those same kids now are trying to act like they know what happened that season reading boxscores. Can't rewrite history.

81, 62 in 3Qs, +35 ppg, 39ppg for several months during hot streak, 21 games of 40 points (record 14-7). And not even his best season.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What do you think about every single perimeter all-star and perimeter 20 ppg scorer having their production increase, posting career highs?
Do you disagree with what Kerr and Collins said during the MIA/LAL game?

Kobe was still the only player breaking scoring records on a consistent basis that year, which followed suit in 2007. :confusedshrug:

And player/coach verbatim? Did you agree with Barkley, Kenny Smith and Reggie Miller when they said Kobe was the best player in 2010? Let us know...


I'm not sure why you're so defensive on this topic, was the defense not a valid issue? A declining Iverson posted 33 ppg ffs :confusedshrug:

Hilarious

You're the guy who can't take my name out their mouth while crusading ISH and finding new and "inventive" ways to discredit Kobe. I'm the defensive one though. :oldlol:


And as you see, someone else like Dragonyeuw, thought this shit was consensus... so yeah, its a few more than just 'OP', lol.

I have no idea who that is...should I care? I don't need a next man to formulate a basketball opinion.