Top Goat list based off FACTS,Not opinion

[TheWinningFam]

We all know that winning an nba championship is a team accomplishment, therefore we can infer that winning an MVP is an indivdual accolade that only the best should win. You can fluke win 1 or 2 mvps, but what truly distinguishes greats from flash in the pans is complete dominance.

All time by mvps.

1.Jordan:11 total mvps
2.Kareem:8 total mvps
3.Lebron: 7 total mvps
4.Magic 6 total Mvps
5.Russel 5 total mvps (Would most likely be number 1 if they had fmvp back then*)
6.Wilt 5 total mvps
7.Duncan 5 total mvps
8.Bird 5 total mvps
9.Shaq 4 total mvps
10. Willis reed 4 total mvps
11.Hakeem 3 total mvps
12.Brickbe 3 total mvps

This is just based off facts people, another good metric to base top 5-10 players off of is total mvp count, since all around greats tend to have multiple mvp awards.

[Bankaii]

Not a bad list but under most normal circumstances FMVP>MVP.
You should value FMVP at 1.5-2 points and see how it turns out.

[Im Still Ballin]

Not a bad list but under most normal circumstances FMVP>MVP.
You should value FMVP at 1.5-2 points and see how it turns out.
Based on the FMVP = 2 model

1. Jordan 17
2a. LeBron 10
2b. Kareem 10
4. Magic 9
5. Duncan 8
6a. Bird 7
6b. Shaq 7
8. Wilt 6
9a. Reed 5
9b. Hakeem 5
9c. Kobe 5

Bill Russell is impossible to place due to the FMVP not being around..

Either way, Kobe is still pushed just outside the 10, if not barely in... As a doorman

[WayOfWad3]

I was gonna rage and call bs but then I saw the list actually looked quite feasible, well done OP. Still though, facts or not most lists are opinionated and there's a lot more that goes into all-time ranking, hence the outlier Willis Reed. And btw, Bill Russel should be far and away #1, there just weren't FMVP's in that time as we all know

[scuzzy]

Based on the FMVP = 2 model

1. Jordan 17
2a. LeBron 10
2b. Kareem 10
4. Magic 9
5. Duncan 8
6a. Bird 7
6b. Shaq 7
8. Wilt 6
9a. Reed 5
9b. Hakeem 5
9c. Kobe 5

Bill Russell is impossible to place due to the FMVP not being around..

Either way, Kobe is still pushed just outside the 10, if not barely in... As a doorman


The General Consensus

[Im Still Ballin]

The General Consensus
Pretty much

And that's just straight factual accolade total... Which funnily used to be the only argument against LeBron (Nam flashbacks of Kobetards: 5 ringzzz doe!!)

No. BITCH PLEASE. The FMVP argument supersedes the rings argument

And this is just straight accolade totals

Because when you factor in context? LeBron shoots to the moon.

He's got as strong as any for a case as second GOAT

Another MVP/Championship/FMVP, or all the above, and he solidifies himself as consensus 2nd GOAT and arguable GOAT

[bobopenguin]

monkeys everywhere in this thread.

[K.dot ShowTime]

:facepalm

[TheWinningFam]

Ik showtime it's hard for your brain to process facts, but eventually you will come to acceptance.

[AintNoSunshine]

Great thought OP, this might just be the most accurate ranking based on any ONE metric.

[Keno]

great list and great criteria for all time ranking. good job op.

[I<3NBA]

MVP awards are not based on facts but on opinions.

after all, they're merely votes, not something awarded automatically based on stats.

it's the same with all-star appearances, all-defensive teams, all-nba teams.

really, if you wanna deal with "facts," then deal only with numbers. they're the only factual thing there can be. votes are opinions.

[AintNoSunshine]

MVP awards are not based on facts but on opinions.

after all, they're merely votes, not something awarded automatically based on stats.

it's the same with all-star appearances, all-defensive teams, all-nba teams.

really, if you wanna deal with "facts," then deal only with numbers. they're the only factual thing there can be. votes are opinions.
Are you retarded? The number of MVP awards they won are facts. :facepalm

[Psileas]

A GOAT list that combines regular season and Finals' MVP's...yeah, nobody had ever thought about it before - not to mention that MVP's are obviously nothing but collective opinions of others, which is the only "factual" thing of the matter. Btw, here's what we get according to this metric:

2000-02 Kobe=0 points combined
1974, 1980 Kareem=0 points combined out of his playoffs
1981 Maxwell, 2004 Billups, etc=1 point
Pre '69 Finals' MVP's=0 points combined (as mentioned)

Also:
1961-65 Wilt's regular seasons=0 points combined
1969 Unseld=1 point

Nah, thanks, I'll take another metric instead.

[Ca$H]

Are you retarded? The number of MVP awards they won are facts. :facepalm

MVPs are awarded based on the subjective opinion of the media. :facepalm

Steve Nash- 2 MVPs. Shaq- 1 MVP.

[bobopenguin]

MVPs are awarded based on the subjective opinion of the media. :facepalm

Steve Nash- 2 MVPs. Shaq- 1 MVP.

and lebron with 4 mvps. lol, what a joke. :roll:

[AirBonner]

Good thread op. Evidence to support the list. Kobetard's are shook and still think wishful thinking can be presented as fact.

[Hey Yo]

MVP awards are not based on facts but on opinions.

after all, they're merely votes, not something awarded automatically based on stats.

it's the same with all-star appearances, all-defensive teams, all-nba teams.

really, if you wanna deal with "facts," then deal only with numbers. they're the only factual thing there can be. votes are opinions.
All-Star appearances are voted by the fans opinions.....All-NBA teams and MVP's are not. That's why AS appearances don't hold nearly the weight as making All-NBA teams or winning MVP does on one's resume'

[I<3NBA]

Are you retarded? The number of MVP awards they won are facts. :facepalm
which are based on opinions which aren't facts so... that number is meaningless. a number based on an opinion isn't a "fact," it's an opinion somebody counted.

All-Star appearances are voted by the fans opinions.....All-NBA teams and MVP's are not. That's why AS appearances don't hold nearly the weight as making All-NBA teams or winning MVP does on one's resume'
it's still the same. voted on by coaches. the key word here is "voted on."

biases remain in people, even in coaches.

it isn't "factual" if it is based on opinion.

a fact is something that can be recorded without bias.

stats are factual. data is factual.

opinions are not.

votes are not. you idiots need to correct your stupid thinking.

[Im Still Ballin]

which are based on opinions which aren't facts so... that number is meaningless. a number based on an opinion isn't a "fact," it's an opinion somebody counted.

it's still the same. voted on by coaches. the key word here is "voted on."

biases remain in people, even in coaches.

it isn't "factual" if it is based on opinion.

a fact is something that can be recorded without bias.

stats are factual. data is factual.

opinions are not.

votes are not. you idiots need to correct your stupid thinking.
We are not concerned with the process, rather the result. That is why MVP's/FMVP's are factual. It is won by one sole person. You either win it or you don't. You are looking at this the wrong way, and if you are trying to dismantle the method and process of it in some misguided attack at LeBron's greatness, you are foolish. Because, if you strip away MVPs and championships, LeBron is above everyone.

[Hey Yo]

which are based on opinions which aren't facts so... that number is meaningless. a number based on an opinion isn't a "fact," it's an opinion somebody counted.

it's still the same. voted on by coaches. the key word here is "voted on."

biases remain in people, even in coaches.

it isn't "factual" if it is based on opinion.

a fact is something that can be recorded without bias.

stats are factual. data is factual.

opinions are not.

votes are not.
Yes, it's still considered opinion but when it comes to making an All-NBA team or winning the MVP.....Coaches voting on it is definitely makes the winner more legit than it would having the fans vote.

They both give opinions, but the true bias one is the fan vote w/o question.


you idiots need to correct your stupid thinking.
Why the need for the meltdown name calling??

[I<3NBA]

Yes, it's still considered opinion but when it comes to making an All-NBA team or winning the MVP.....Coaches voting on it is definitely makes the winner more legit than it would having the fans vote.

They both give opinions, but the true bias one is the fan vote w/o question.
that's a fallacy. appeal to authority.

truth is, coaches are prone to biases as much as anyone else. maybe even more so because they will have their favorites. humans in general aren't immune to biases. that's why the empirical method was invented. to remove humanity's bias from science and deal with "facts" in an unbiased manner.

so no matter who votes on it, whether it's coaches, scholars, school teachers, supreme court judges, or basketball legends, it's legitimacy isn't any more or less than any one else's.

[Hey Yo]

that's a fallacy. appeal to authority.

truth is, coaches are prone to biases as much as anyone else. maybe even more so because they will have their favorites. humans in general aren't immune to biases. that's why the empirical method was invented. to remove humanity's bias from science and deal with "facts" in an unbiased manner.

so no matter who votes on it, whether it's coaches, scholars, school teachers, supreme court judges, or basketball legends, it's legitimacy isn't any more or less than any one else's.
:oldlol:

You're reaching now, Chico.

I'd much rather win an MVP by current voting system than have 4-H rabbit judges and strawberry pickers vote me to win it.

It's like saying the home town boxer knows he just got his ass handed to him in his own backyard, yet he still feels great about the local judges awarding him the win by split decision.

[TheWinningFam]

For the ones melting down in this thread about the process, as i previously stated a player can fluke win an mvp once or twice, but the difference is the Best players of all time tend to win the award multiple times throughout their career notice outside of willis reed, and kobe most people have these players in their top 10?

You can make an argument for willis reed not being top 10, but besides him everyone on this list is atleast in the discussion for top 10 and their rankings here are very similar to the general consesus rankings aswell as multiple media outlets.

[scuzzy]

Good list and formula OP :applause:

The lebron fam reeks of high IQ

We win. Were winners

General Consensus Fam

:cheers:

[ClipperRevival]

These are the two most important individual awards one can win. And the list confirms it's a pretty decent barometer.

And Russell has 11-14 to top this list. There is really no debate about it. Just comes down to exactly how many fmvp he wins. 6 is the extreme low end and 9 the high end.

When judging the true GOAT level players, it's about mvp and fmvp (which means multiple rings too).

[ClipperRevival]

I would also add dpoy too. That is serious weight to any resume. And this is where Russell would put this list to shame because he would easily have 5-7ish.

[Mr Feeny]

I agree with the clipper fan that we should add dpoy.
It would put Russell at around 15 (!) And Jordan at 12.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

3 people have posted in this thread

[ClipperRevival]

I agree with the clipper fan that we should add dpoy.
It would put Russell at around 15 (!) And Jordan at 12.

A lot more than 15.

5 mvp
7-9 fmvp
5-7 dpoy

17 low end
21 high end

And I think I am being very generous with his dpoy projections. Most would argue that he would've started winning them from his rookie season (1957) on up until 1967ish, when he started to slow down a tad due to age. Maybe Wilt takes a few. Thurmond maybe? So that's a 11 year stretch where he wins almost all of them sans a few. So in most likelihood, he should have about 8 dpoy.

[soots]

looks like a top goat list based off mvp to me.