Checkmate Atheists!

[Im Still Ballin]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--yUk6sRYfKs/UCRQtj3gakI/AAAAAAAAIww/l0HmuRDTRBA/s1600/atheism%2Bmakes%2Bno%2Bsense.jpg

[Doomsday Dallas]

Atheists do worship a God.

Themselves!!!!

They just don't realize it.

[masonanddixon]

It's only that initiating particle that atheists cannot explain, son.

[warriorfan]

Count it!

[Doomsday Dallas]

(in no way can I ever say that my beliefs are better than an Atheists. My God would never allow me to take credit for my own faith. Even he gets the glory for giving us faith... it's a gift just like everything else)

[iamgine]

There is no atheist, only agnostics.

[nathanjizzle]

the only time someone is wrong on the topic of religion is when someone points to a religion and says that its wrong or stupid. all beliefs are valid

[fiddy]

There is no atheist, only agnostics.

Separate notions.

[Achilleas]

those who believe in their god they don't believe all other gods,so the atheists don't believe in 1 more god than the others :confusedshrug:

[step_back]

I'm an Atheist. I don't know why we're here or where our Universe came from. I'm not claiming to know either, which is the complete opposite of religion.

Simple enough for you?

[~primetime~]

I'm an Atheist. I don't know why we're here or where our Universe came from. I'm not claiming to know either, which is the complete opposite of religion.

Simple enough for you?
If you don't know, you're an agnostic, not an atheist

Atheists claim there is no creator, that space, time, light, matter, etc just came to exist from nothing.

[~primetime~]

the only time someone is wrong on the topic of religion is when someone points to a religion and says that its wrong or stupid. all beliefs are valid
I'm not with you on this one, some religions are clearly wrong and stupid.

The thing is I believe religion brings a lot of people mental stability, cures depression, has even been shown to cure mental disorders.

There are plenty of examples of religion turning people into nut jobs too, but from what I've encountered it's helped more people than its hurt.

[NumberSix]

It's only that initiating particle that atheists cannot explain, son.
Genesis "explains" the origins of the universe too. Just because you have an explanation doesn't mean it's right. Maybe there was a Big Bang, maybe there wasn't.

[UK2K]

Can't you just believe in evolution...?

[fiddy]

Can't you just believe in evolution...?
Scientific fairy tales

[~primetime~]

Can't you just believe in evolution...?
Evolution doesn't explain what caused the Big Bang or why anything at all exists.

[NumberSix]

There is no atheist, only agnostics.
Atheists ARE agnostics.

Atheism is a lack of belief. Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge. Atheists lack belief in theism. But they're also agnostics as they lack knowledge of what exists outside of our known universe.

[Overdrive]

If you don't know, you're an agnostic, not an atheist

Atheists claim there is no creator, that space, time, light, matter, etc just came to exist from nothing.

No, not nothing, a singularity, a superheavy, superdense point with no dimensions in Euclid's definition of space. Basically everything was provably there, but unthinkable close together.

[~primetime~]

Atheists ARE agnostics.

Atheism is a lack of belief. Agnosticism is a lack of knowledge. Atheists lack belief in theism. But they're also agnostics as they lack knowledge of what exists outside of our known universe.
No there is a difference between the two.

A true atheist literally believes there is no creator(s)

[NumberSix]

No there is a difference between the two.

A true atheist literally believes the is no creator(s)
A = without. Theism = belief in god/gods, roughly.

Lack of belief of existence =/= affirmative belief in non-existence.

[~primetime~]

A = without. Theism = belief in god/gods, roughly.

Lack of belief of existence =/= affirmative belief in non-existence.
Listen, if you think 'maybe' there is a God, not sure...you're not really an atheist

You should claim agnostic...

If that's your belief and you insist on claiming atheism, then you must really just like the word atheist or something and the way you think people view you with that title

[Patrick Chewing]

There is but one God and he is the creator of every living thing in the Universe. Yes, including us with all our faults. This is why he sent down his only son our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to explain to us about the Father and the Holy Spirit and to explain to us that our life has meaning and that it just wasn't happenstance.

Whether you believe or do not believe, at least know this. God believes in you.

[fiddy]

Listen, if you think 'maybe' there is a God, not sure...you're not really an atheist

You should claim agnostic...

If that's your belief and you insist on claiming atheism, then you must really just like the word atheist or something and the way you think people view you with that title
This

[UK2K]

Evolution doesn't explain what caused the Big Bang or why anything at all exists.

Sure it does...

The theory that life evolved from bacteria millions and millions of years ago and evolved into what we are now is an explanation as to how we got here.

It doesn't explain the Big Bang, but really, shit just happening is an explanation. Planets collide into other planets. Stars die. Shit happens.

[NumberSix]

Listen, if you think 'maybe' there is a God, not sure...you're not really an atheist

You should claim agnostic...

If that's your belief and you insist on claiming atheism, then you must really just like the word atheist or something and the way you think people view you with that title
I don't refer to myself as an atheist... but the word means what it means.

Let's simplify this. I lack a belief of the existence of your brother. Maybe you have a brother, maybe you don't. I don't believe you have one and I don't believe that you don't. I have a complete lack of belief on the matter.

Some atheists do also have the additional belief that no god exists. Some atheists have no opinion at all on it.

[UK2K]

I don't refer to myself as an atheist... but the word means what it means.

Let's simplify this. I lack a belief of the existence of your brother. Maybe you have a brother, maybe you don't. I don't believe you have one and I don't believe that you don't. I have a complete lack of belief on the matter.

Some atheists do also have the additional belief that no god exists. Some atheists have no opinion at all on it.

Myself. I don't believe there is a God. I don't believe there isn't. I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to believe there is a God, but I haven't seen any evidence of it so... I just assume its not real.

[Dresta]

I don't refer to myself as an atheist... but the word means what it means.

Let's simplify this. I lack a belief of the existence of your brother. Maybe you have a brother, maybe you don't. I don't believe you have one and I don't believe that you don't. I have a complete lack of belief on the matter.

Some atheists do also have the additional belief that no god exists. Some atheists have no opinion at all on it.
This. "Belief" is a binary concept: you either have it, or you do not. I can want to believe and want there to be a God (and even act as if there were) and still be an atheist because I lack belief.

You can't "kind of" or "maybe" believe something. Belief is a feeling or sentiment and not a wholly rational position.

[~primetime~]

This. "Belief" is a binary concept: you either have it, or you do not. I can want to believe and want there to be a God (and even act as if there were) and still be an atheist because I lack belief.

You can't "kind of" or "maybe" believe something. Belief is a feeling or sentiment and not a wholly rational position.
It is completely possible to believe that "there could be a higher power, but maybe not, it's impossible to know"

But maybe you're just wanting to debate the semantics of the word "believe"



regardless from your point...there is a clear difference from an individual who -believes- that no higher power exists, and an individual who believes that a higher power MIGHT exist.

[~primetime~]

http://nailtothedoor.com/wp-content/uploads/BeliefMatrix.jpg


^^^ the spectrum is as such

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

There is but One God (before and after Eternity, irrespective of time) and he is the Creator, Sustainer, Nourisher, Protector, Maintainer; of every living thing in the Universe. Yes, including and especially, man, (who is highest of all creatures in his potential for knowledge and spiritual connection with Him) with all our faults and shortcomings. This is why he sent down over 124,000 Prophets as guides (before the Last Messenger) including Jesus Christ son of Mary, Angels, Divine Books (Torah, Injil, Qu'ran), has given man a yearning to live forever and his actions in this life will sow the seeds for the Hereafter, and has written each individual's Fate.

To ponder upon the origins and destination of creation is also one of His commands.

Whether you believe or do not believe, at least know this. God loves you. Far More than a mother loves their baby..

Good start, Pat. Adjusted to be more accurate. It can still be improved upon.

[Nick Young]

Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.


Religion
[ri-lij-uh n]
noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

[Nick Young]

Genesis "explains" the origins of the universe too. Just because you have an explanation doesn't mean it's right. Maybe there was a Big Bang, maybe there wasn't.
Exactly. Genesis and practitioners of the teachings of kabbalah have been talking about the big bang for thousands of years before scientists finally figured it out and came to the same conclusion.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

those who believe in their god they don't believe all other gods,so the atheists don't believe in 1 more god than the others :confusedshrug:

Okay here's a mental exercise for you.

Look outside at everything in your home right now.

The couches, the computer, the television. Everything had to have a manufacturer, yes?

Now look outside at the natural world.

The grass, the mountains, the clouds, the trees etc.

Apply the same logic.

Does having zero maker make more sense than their being One Maker?

[Overdrive]

Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.

That's not the truth. There are blind trusting atheists out there, but also those who try to find the truth themselves. The difference is that both - the blind believers of science and the researchers - demand scientific evidence(falsification/verification).



Does having zero maker make more sense than their being One Maker?

Yes. It does. For me.

[Nick Young]

That's not the truth. There are blind trusting atheists out there, but also those who try to find the truth themselves. The difference is that both - the blind believers of science and the researchers - demand scientific evidence(falsification/verification).

Exactly. Athiests are just like followers of every other religion. Some seek the way for themselves. Other Atheists are happy to blindly believe what they're told to believe.

[Overdrive]

Exactly. Athiests are just like followers of every other religion. Some seek the way for themselves. Other Atheists are happy to blindly believe what they're told to believe.

Of course. It's just another way to deal with faith and death. Every human being does that.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Myself. I don't believe there is a God. I don't believe there isn't. I don't care one way or the other. I'd like to believe there is a God, but I haven't seen any evidence of it so... I just assume its not real.

You haven't "seen" any evidence of God?

Okay, mental experiment.

You hold down your mouse and you drag your Elite Janissaries and position them into the sides of the 4 castles to avoid flank, from this you understand there's a Commander compelling them to protect a sneak attack of Huskarls on the fortress.

Now ask yourself, Who, compels you to protect your non-related loved ones? You were nothing but a lifeless sperm clot a quarter century back, there had to have been something in your brain wiring that compelled you to have this ability. From this you understand, that as a creation, I want to defend and protect. Now you come to (begin to) realize a portion of God's attributes (Al-Muhaymin, Al-Waliyy)

Likewise, God, your Creator; has protected all of us from hundreds of diseases, hundreds of injuries, thousands of atrocities, millions of bad outcomes every single step of our lives. It's a miracle that the the 70,000,000 cells in our body die, are recreated, re-maintained, die, regrow, exchange oxygen, exchange nutrients, dispose of waste without OUR CONSCIOUS control of it.

You look at the people of the Afghanistan and you toss them Gatorade to quench their thirst. There had to have been a reason why a) you wanted to help the foreigners (who can NO have help for your evolutionary reproductive success) . You are compelled to help them.
Thus from the creation helping all other creation it is understood that there is
a merciful temperament within us, bestowed by One that is All-Merciful, Very-Merciful (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim)

Examples of God's mercy are ALL around you. Trees stand up straight yet they are nourished by water and sunlight. The floor of the Earth is not littered with the corpses of insects, somehow someway they disappear every day. Cats and dogs (which don't really have much of an impact on a human) are being served food on a silver platter Helpless babies are being nourished by their mothers. People don't treat each other as best as possible and certainly not how they treat themselves, yet instead of hostility, they are met with pardon.

Relating to the aforementionted tossing of the Gatorade, it should be known that there is no liquid on earth that can work as well as what has been given for free; that is clean spring or well water (or if you're willing to go to Hajj, ZamZam water). Gatorade, a product of experimentation and mingling of electrolytes is used to fuel athletes. Yet it is still inferior to licking on a salt stick and drinking fresh water. And evolution does not account for our top class Olympic athletes being inferior to our ancestors. Nor our top minds being less wise than men of the past.


Then why is it that
a) People who worked in manual labor in the Ottoman Empire were known to carry heavy stones for hours a day easily
b) The Greeks had slaves who rowed boats for nearly 20 hours a day subsisting off bread and barley.
c) The Egyptians and their pyramids
d) Abraham lived much, much longer than any human being today
e) The memory of the Arabs were retentive enough to hold hundreds of thousands of poems.
f) The Native American warriors themselves were stronger, more conditioned, had more endurance than guys like Rich Froning.
(Look up Chaos and Pain for)
And many more examples


Nor does Evolution does not account for the survival of hundreds and thousands of small dogs that do not shepherd, nor hunt, nor guard yet enjoy comfy, cozy lives. They are as far away from wolves as

God's mercy and God's love are much stronger, more predominant, and accurate explanations why the world operates the way it does.


It also alludes to a natural unity and fraternity between all Mankind, be they from the rural areas of Kentucky or the deserts of Kabul. And each and every human has the same basic features, but they are different (look at people's fingerprints). If you were to, theoretically, create a collection of Ken's Dolls, each different, yet with the same basic structure, you would have to have knowledge of each previous one to make each one unique, no?

Evolution would compel one to coldly slaughter the menfolk of other tribes to ensure maximum reproductive success. Yet, you didn't kill the Afghans, did you?

[KyrieTheFuture]

God starting the universe is a shit explanation. Who created God? There is always one step farther back that you can go with this explanation.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

That's not the truth. There are blind trusting atheists out there, but also those who try to find the truth themselves. The difference is that both - the blind believers of science and the researchers - demand scientific evidence(falsification/verification).



Yes. It does. For me.


Look outside at the sky. The sun. Rivers. Mountains. Trees.

These are masterpieces that could not have been built if all of mankind worked together with the most supreme, precise technology to do so. How can the troposphere, thermosphere, exosphere, mesosphere, atmospheric layers, year after year after year, since the genesis of this Earth manage to sustain all the millions of life forms within it?


How can the Earth even be situated so perfectly that had it been (estimated a bit closer or a bit further) man would've died out from heat stroke or burning.

And they themselves don't have the intelligence to speak. You ever built a building before, Overdrive? Or marvelled at an architecture Bricks don't magically communicate with other bricks to just auto-place themselves in perfect orderly fashion. No sir. Frank Lloyd Wright planned plotted and actualized that in a most meticulous fashion.

So how could the molecules that compose a tree or a mountain just auto-arrange? They aren't even capable of moving or communicating.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Look outside at the sky. The sun. Rivers. Mountains. Trees.

These are masterpieces that could not have been built if all of mankind worked together with the most supreme, precise technology to do so. How can the troposphere, thermosphere, exosphere, mesosphere, atmospheric layers, year after year after year, since the genesis of this Earth manage to sustain all the millions of life forms within it?


How can the Earth even be situated so perfectly that had it been (estimated a bit closer or a bit further) man would've died out from heat stroke or burning.

And they themselves don't have the intelligence to speak. You ever built a building before, Overdrive? Or marvelled at an architecture Bricks don't magically communicate with other bricks to just auto-place themselves in perfect orderly fashion. No sir. Frank Lloyd Wright planned plotted and actualized that in a most meticulous fashion.

So how could the molecules that compose a tree or a mountain just auto-arrange? They aren't even capable of moving or communicating.

I don't think you understand molecules very well

[Overdrive]

Look outside at the sky. The sun. Rivers. Mountains. Trees.

These are masterpieces that could not have been built if all of mankind worked together with the most supreme, precise technology to do so. How can the troposphere, thermosphere, exosphere, mesosphere, atmospheric layers, year after year after year, since the genesis of this Earth manage to sustain all the millions of life forms within it?


How can the Earth even be situated so perfectly that had it been (estimated a bit closer or a bit further) man would've died out from heat stroke or burning.

And they themselves don't have the intelligence to speak. You ever built a building before, Overdrive? Or marvelled at an architecture Bricks don't magically communicate with other bricks to just auto-place themselves in perfect orderly fashion. No sir. Frank Lloyd Wright planned plotted and actualized that in a most meticulous fashion.

So how could the molecules that compose a tree or a mountain just auto-arrange? They aren't even capable of moving or communicating.

Don't try to push God on me, I won't push science on you. Fair deal?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.
Atheism is actually a LACK of a belief system, so it can't be a religion in that sense. It would be like me telling you that you belong to a religion of people who don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster.

And Science isn't something based on beliefs. You don't have to "believe" in it, it's simply an observation of nature/the universe. I think of science like music theory. It's more of a way to categorize things. You don't have to "believe" in music theory, but it's there in all music whether you like it or not.

[UK2K]

You haven't "seen" any evidence of God?

Okay, mental experiment.

You hold down your mouse and you drag your Elite Janissaries and position them into the sides of the 4 castles to avoid flank, from this you understand there's a Commander compelling them to protect a sneak attack of Huskarls on the fortress.

Now ask yourself, Who, compels you to protect your non-related loved ones? You were nothing but a lifeless sperm clot a quarter century back, there had to have been something in your brain wiring that compelled you to have this ability. From this you understand, that as a creation, I want to defend and protect. Now you come to (begin to) realize a portion of God's attributes (Al-Muhaymin, Al-Waliyy)

Likewise, God, your Creator; has protected all of us from hundreds of diseases, hundreds of injuries, thousands of atrocities, millions of bad outcomes every single step of our lives. It's a miracle that the the 70,000,000 cells in our body die, are recreated, re-maintained, die, regrow, exchange oxygen, exchange nutrients, dispose of waste without OUR CONSCIOUS control of it.

You look at the people of the Afghanistan and you toss them Gatorade to quench their thirst. There had to have been a reason why a) you wanted to help the foreigners (who can NO have help for your evolutionary reproductive success) . You are compelled to help them.
Thus from the creation helping all other creation it is understood that there is
a merciful temperament within us, bestowed by One that is All-Merciful, Very-Merciful (Ar-Rahman, Ar-Rahim)

Examples of God's mercy are ALL around you. Trees stand up straight yet they are nourished by water and sunlight. The floor of the Earth is not littered with the corpses of insects, somehow someway they disappear every day. Cats and dogs (which don't really have much of an impact on a human) are being served food on a silver platter Helpless babies are being nourished by their mothers. People don't treat each other as best as possible and certainly not how they treat themselves, yet instead of hostility, they are met with pardon.

Relating to the aforementionted tossing of the Gatorade, it should be known that there is no liquid on earth that can work as well as what has been given for free; that is clean spring or well water (or if you're willing to go to Hajj, ZamZam water). Gatorade, a product of experimentation and mingling of electrolytes is used to fuel athletes. Yet it is still inferior to licking on a salt stick and drinking fresh water. And evolution does not account for our top class Olympic athletes being inferior to our ancestors. Nor our top minds being less wise than men of the past.


Then why is it that
a) People who worked in manual labor in the Ottoman Empire were known to carry heavy stones for hours a day easily
b) The Greeks had slaves who rowed boats for nearly 20 hours a day subsisting off bread and barley.
c) The Egyptians and their pyramids
d) Abraham lived much, much longer than any human being today
e) The memory of the Arabs were retentive enough to hold hundreds of thousands of poems.
f) The Native American warriors themselves were stronger, more conditioned, had more endurance than guys like Rich Froning.
(Look up Chaos and Pain for)
And many more examples


Nor does Evolution does not account for the survival of hundreds and thousands of small dogs that do not shepherd, nor hunt, nor guard yet enjoy comfy, cozy lives. They are as far away from wolves as

God's mercy and God's love are much stronger, more predominant, and accurate explanations why the world operates the way it does.


It also alludes to a natural unity and fraternity between all Mankind, be they from the rural areas of Kentucky or the deserts of Kabul. And each and every human has the same basic features, but they are different (look at people's fingerprints). If you were to, theoretically, create a collection of Ken's Dolls, each different, yet with the same basic structure, you would have to have knowledge of each previous one to make each one unique, no?

Evolution would compel one to coldly slaughter the menfolk of other tribes to ensure maximum reproductive success. Yet, you didn't kill the Afghans, did you?

Ok, first off... :roll:

I started reading this post and thought 'no he's not bringing up AOE2'.

But to answer your question...

God didn't compel me not to kill the Afghans. I didn't kill them because I didn't want to kill them. There was no higher being telling me not to. There simply was no benefit to be gained. If there was? Maybe that changes things.

I don't believe in God (the Christian version of it anyway) because:

A) Being forced to worship him or burn in an entire pit of fire doesn't seem like much of a choice...
B) I've seen too much bad things to think there's a 'plan'. It's not a plan, it's luck. I've had EOD clear IED's out from where I had been sleeping the night before. Why didn't the IED go off while I was walking around on top of it? Was it God? Or was there some wiring flaw that caused it to malfunction?

Go watch the documentaries Restrepo or Korengal... 30 guys go on patrol, and the 8th one in line steps on a mine. God or just unlucky? 200 trucks go out in a convoy, the very last truck in the convoy is hit (wasn't a command det, it was a pressure plate)... Is that God? Or is the last truck just really ****ing unlucky to roll over it at the right place at the wrong time?

Tornadoes rip apart whole towns and some people die, some live.

Planes crash and half the people live and half of them die.

That's just called luck. I was lucky I didn't get shot because I was in the right places at the right time. Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place, but I wasn't. God didn't save me from getting tagged hopping out of my truck... the fact my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck, causing me to get out on that side, did.

It's not God. It's me being lucky up until the point where I'm not so lucky.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Of course. It's just another way to deal with faith and death. Every human being does that.

On the contrary, people of religious orientation look forward to death and are learned in utilizing the remembrance of Death as it is a helpful deadline aide to focus, zone in on that which matters most in life.

You are a child born in the, quoting Dresta here "Bastard child of Christianity" 2016 Western Secular Materialist Dogmatic World.

With thousands of years of men who wielded substantial more courage and wisdom (willing to part ways with anything to defend one's honor, as evidenced by all parts of history), you, in your slumbering youth, think you can attribute something as broad an encompassing as religious faith with a modern psychological concept. Compensation. "it's another way to "deal" with"

That's precisely what the Devil wants you to think. The Chief Deceiver. Switch the orders of things and bam, the human populace is going to stray away from God. Read up on the tricks of the devil, and begin a meditation program and right off the bat you'll learn that a sizable proportion of thoughts are just worthless junk. No SSRI or Ritalin necessary.

Meanwhile, God has always promised the Afterlife to all of mankind, and has given within mans spirit an aching yearning to live eternally.

Look back to the people who started and propagated human civilization in the first place knew very well about what was to come after.

You ever constructed a building? It takes HELLA motivation. So what force inspires the Aztecs, Mayans, and Egyptians to go ahead and make the most awesome architecture the world has ever seen? They could've sat back and enjoyed pina colada and exchanged alpaca furs, no?

They know damn well their efforts would be rewarded in the next life.

You ever reflected on yourself and read stories of young men in the past? These guys wake up at dawn, labor furiously, offer daily devotionals, and consider it an honor to go to war, to get married, to serve the community. With a smile on their face. There's clearly a different mindset between us. This is not to put you down, rather it is to say, you've been deprived of something crucial to human happiness, Faith and the sacred connection between man and God.

It is atheism that is the lie. The scourge of destruction that has destroyed and dulled the spirit that used to animate the soul of mankind. And it leaves people clinging on to the worst transient pleasures. You've got people here chasing fame. You've got the Pharmaceutical Industries and Sports Forums literally STEALING the lives of young men looking for fulfillment. You've got sad people here. People drinking themselves into a stupor. People taking on substances to feel more.. alive. And for what? The pursuit of happiness, health, fulfillment.

Things that God bestows on man for free.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Don't try to push God on me, I won't push science on you. Fair deal?

You were challenged to the argument on what makes more sense, a) A Maker or b) no maker.

Respond back with science. Go. I don't need to push anything on to you. Man is supposed to search and adopt Truth.

[Nick Young]

Atheism is actually a LACK of a belief system, so it can't be a religion in that sense. It would be like me telling you that you belong to a religion of people who don't believe in a flying spaghetti monster.

And Science isn't something based on beliefs. You don't have to "believe" in it, it's simply an observation of nature/the universe. I think of science like music theory. It's more of a way to categorize things. You don't have to "believe" in music theory, but it's there in all music whether you like it or not.
Atheists have a strong belief system. The blind belief in the system of scientists, and science telling them what to believe. Just like in every other religion, atheists decide for themselves how strongly or loosely they wish to cling to their belief system.


Atheism is a religion by every definition of the word.

You are a follower of a religion bro. Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you.

[Overdrive]

On the contrary, people of religious orientation look forward to death and are learned in utilizing the remembrance of Death as it is a helpful deadline aide to focus, zone in on that which matters most in life.

So that's why those guys bomb themselves away and take lives of hundreds of others at a time? I see.


You were challenged to the argument on what makes more sense, a) A Maker or b) no maker.

Respond back with science. Go. I don't need to push anything on to you. Man is supposed to search and adopt Truth.

That's why alot of atheists and agnostics don't like religious people. I didn't take a challange and I didn't challange you I don't want to convince you, but you seem to want to convince me. I won't change my believes, you won't change yours. Let's just leave it at that. Everything else is useless back and forth.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Ok, first off... :roll:

I started reading this post and thought 'no he's not bringing up AOE2'.

But to answer your question...

God didn't compel me not to kill the Afghans. I didn't kill them because I didn't want to kill them. There was no higher being telling me not to. There simply was no benefit to be gained. If there was? Maybe that changes things.

I don't believe in God (the Christian version of it anyway) because:

A) Being forced to worship him or burn in an entire pit of fire doesn't seem like much of a choice...
B) I've seen too much bad things to think there's a 'plan'. It's not a plan, it's luck. I've had EOD clear IED's out from where I had been sleeping the night before. Why didn't the IED go off while I was walking around on top of it? Was it God? Or was there some wiring flaw that caused it to malfunction?

Go watch the documentaries Restrepo or Korengal... 30 guys go on patrol, and the 8th one in line steps on a mine. God or just unlucky? 200 trucks go out in a convoy, the very last truck in the convoy is hit (wasn't a command det, it was a pressure plate)... Is that God? Or is the last truck just really ****ing unlucky to roll over it at the right place at the wrong time?

Tornadoes rip apart whole towns and some people die, some live.

Planes crash and half the people live and half of them die.

That's just called luck. I was lucky I didn't get shot because I was in the right places at the right time. Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place, but I wasn't. God didn't save me from getting tagged hopping out of my truck... the fact my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck, causing me to get out on that side, did.

It's not God. It's me being lucky up until the point where I'm not so lucky.

This is a very deep post. It's going to require some time for a proper comprehensive reply. BRB.

[Nick Young]

The concept of hell is a concept created by men. Followers of Christianity and Islam invented and fabricated the concept of a burning hell as a way to scare and guilt people in to following their religion.

A permanent and eternal hell is not something that God actually created. It's a manufactured concept created by the two corrupted offshoot sects of Judaism-Christianity and Islam.

[kamil]

Atheists have a strong belief system. The blind belief in the system of scientists, and science telling them what to believe. Just like in every other religion, atheists decide for themselves how strongly or loosely they wish to cling to their belief system.


Atheism is a religion by every definition of the word.

You are a follower of a religion bro. Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you.

LOL, you really are stupid, you know that? I thought you we're just a dumbass LeBron* fan but holy crap... you're full on retard.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

So that's why those guys bomb themselves away and take lives of hundreds of others at a time? I see.

Wow. What is wrong with you?
I'm talking about expressing love towards one's wife, being a good father, becoming a more learned person, using money as best as possible, being charitable. Put on some Tim McGraw's Live like You Were Dying to catch my drift.


There is something very very very wrong with your inner being if you actually think by remembering Death, you would assume the thoughts you just did on behalf of a stranger.




That's why alot of atheists and agnostics don't like religious people. I didn't take a challange and I didn't challange you I don't want to convince you, but you seem to want to convince me. I won't change my believes, you won't change yours. Let's just leave it at that. Everything else is useless back and forth.

Guess what? If I'm living comfortably, I don't like being reminded that there's poor people starving out there. But guess what. That's a reminder and guidance to do the right decision.

I stand nothing by "convincing" you. If you earnestly seek the Truth in your endeavors, then you're going to have to be honest and weigh out each position and put thought in it. Oh, and the fact that the posts in this thread have even reached your eyes (language itself is a miracle), and has been comprehended (at a time you are going down a dark path, mentally) is not by chance, either.

Pondering on the natural world leads me to believe, deeply, that there is One Creator behind it. This makes sense in all aspects moreso than whatever explanation you can give.

Peace.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

The concept of hell is a concept created by men. Followers of Christianity and Islam invented and fabricated the concept of a burning hell as a way to scare and guilt people in to following their religion.

A permanent and eternal hell is not something that God actually created. It's a manufactured concept created by the two corrupted offshoot sects of Judaism-Christianity and Islam.


Nope. It's very real to the major religions before it. All of the religions and stories in even Native American tribes touch base on
a) a tyrant being challenged to make the sun rise from the West
b) The Great Flood
c) Afterlife, both Heaven and Hell
d) Good Thoughts, Good Speech, Good Character

You can be the guy on a sinking ship telling everyone "Everything's gonna be alright," or you can man up, repent, for once be an honest sincere person, and fight against all evils; the evils of deceit and interest as well, and tell people as it is with pure intentions.

Like it or not, the Jewish people, despite being the predecessors have done many things that have earned God's wrath. Perhaps the worst of all is arrogantly disbelieving, rejecting, and plotting against His Last Prophet.

Gehinnom (g'hee-NOHM); Gehenna (g'HEHN-uh)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat

[Overdrive]

Pondering on the natural world leads me to believe, deeply, that there is One Creator behind it. This makes sense in all aspects moreso than whatever explanation you can give.

Peace.

For you. You're pretty selfcentered for a religious person. Your truth doesn't have to be the ultimate truth. I don't claim mine as such, but you seem to. Why?

[Nick Young]

LOL, you really are stupid, you know that? I thought you we're just a dumbass LeBron* fan but holy crap... you're full on retard.
Stupid people often resort to ad-hominem logical fallacy when they get stumped and have nothing else to say.

[Overdrive]

LOL, you really are stupid, you know that? I thought you we're just a dumbass LeBron* fan but holy crap... you're full on retard.

The x-ray has two rings too many for a Lebron fan.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Nope. It's very real to the major religions before it. All of the religions and stories in even Native American tribes touch base on
a) a tyrant being challenged to make the sun rise from the West
b) The Great Flood
c) Afterlife, both Heaven and Hell
d) Good Thoughts, Good Speech, Good Character

You can be the guy on a sinking ship telling everyone "Everything's gonna be alright," or you can man up, repent, for once be an honest sincere person, and fight against all evils; the evils of deceit and interest as well, and tell people as it is with pure intentions.

Like it or not, the Jewish people, despite being the predecessors have done many things that have earned God's wrath. Perhaps the worst of all is arrogantly disbelieving, rejecting, and plotting against His Last Prophet.

Gehinnom (g'hee-NOHM); Gehenna (g'HEHN-uh)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dr Seuss]

what do you call it if you just dont care. god. no god. doesnt matter to me. that fall under agnostic?

[Nick Young]

Nope. It's very real to the major religions before it. All of the religions and stories in even Native American tribes touch base on
a) a tyrant being challenged to make the sun rise from the West
b) The Great Flood
c) Afterlife, both Heaven and Hell
d) Good Thoughts, Good Speech, Good Character

You can be the guy on a sinking ship telling everyone "Everything's gonna be alright," or you can man up, repent, for once be an honest sincere person, and fight against all evils; the evils of deceit and interest as well, and tell people as it is with pure intentions.

Like it or not, the Jewish people, despite being the predecessors have done many things that have earned God's wrath. Perhaps the worst of all is arrogantly disbelieving, rejecting, and plotting against His Last Prophet.

Gehinnom (g'hee-NOHM); Gehenna (g'HEHN-uh)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahannam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Hinduism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naraka_(Buddhism)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_hell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duat

:roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

For you. You're pretty selfcentered for a religious person.
Your truth doesn't have to be the ultimate truth. I don't claim mine as such, but you seem to. Why?



Is it ultimately true that there is a Creator or not?
Answer that.

Where did the idea of "your" and "my" truth even come from?

[J Shuttlesworth]

Atheists have a strong belief system. The blind belief in the system of scientists, and science telling them what to believe. Just like in every other religion, atheists decide for themselves how strongly or loosely they wish to cling to their belief system.


Atheism is a religion by every definition of the word.

You are a follower of a religion bro. Sorry I had to be the one to break it to you.
Again, science is not a belief system. It's a description of observations. Pointing out that humans have arms, legs, and a torso is simply the terms they use to dsecribe things that exist. It has nothing to do with beliefs. You can choose not to believe that arms/torsos exist, but it doesn't change the fact that they do.

[~primetime~]

what do you call it if you just dont care. god. no god. doesnt matter to me. that fall under agnostic?
yes

everyone is on the spectrum...those who couldn't care less or give it no thought at all would be agnostic

[~primetime~]

God starting the universe is a shit explanation. Who created God? There is always one step farther back that you can go with this explanation.
In an alternate reality where space/time/etc don't exist, explaining how a higher power came to be might be much easier.

The universe just popping up out of no where for no reason is also a shit explanation.

[UK2K]

In an alternate reality where space/time/etc don't exist, explaining how a higher power came to be might be much easier.

The universe just popping up out of no where for no reason is also a shit explanation.

Says who?

If life being created on this earth by lightning or some shit was a 1 in a billion chance, and the Earth has been around for 4.6 billion years...

It's pretty ****ing likely that life could have been started by lighting. We can talk 'unlikely' all we want, but there have been hundreds of billions of years for these things to happen. Our minds can't even grasp that.

[Nilocon165]

Scientific fairy tales
Only fairy tales are in the book those christians call "The Bible"

[UK2K]

Only fairy tales are in the book those christians call "The Bible"

You could argue every religion has a book of fairy tales.

[Dresta]

So that's why those guys bomb themselves away and take lives of hundreds of others at a time? I see.



That's why alot of atheists and agnostics don't like religious people. I didn't take a challange and I didn't challange you I don't want to convince you, but you seem to want to convince me. I won't change my believes, you won't change yours. Let's just leave it at that. Everything else is useless back and forth.
You sound terribly closed-minded to me. This post is a good demonstration of why a lot of atheists and agnostics don't like other atheists and agnostics: they're intolerant and dismissive of religion and the religious in general.


Again, science is not a belief system. It's a description of observations. Pointing out that humans have arms, legs, and a torso is simply the terms they use to dsecribe things that exist. It has nothing to do with beliefs. You can choose not to believe that arms/torsos exist, but it doesn't change the fact that they do.
It certainly requires some kind of belief that is not verifiable--all systems need them to function. Science is reliant on metaphysical assumptions that cannot be scientifically proven.

See Godel's Incompleteness Theorems:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6del%27s_incompleteness_theorems

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

:roll:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPn0KFlbqX8



“And when it is said to them (the Jews), ‘Believe in what Allaah has sent down,’ they say, ‘We believe in what was sent down to us.’ And they disbelieve in that which came after it, while it is the truth confirming what is with them. Say (O Muhammad to them): ‘Why then have you killed the Prophets of Allaah aforetime, if you indeed have been believers?’”

A few moments ago, you literally, called Christianity and Islam "corrupted offshoots," and claimed that there is no Hell. Both statements false according to all 3 Scriptures.

The penalty for people who lie, and the people who follow those who lie are very, very, very harsh. Let's hope we're not categorized under them, man. And Allah knows best.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1934&Itemid=93


http://7768-presscdn-0-28.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/hell-fire-1.jpg


Hell is very, very, very real. Most people (includingmyself are in a spiritual slumber) and after death is as they become awake. I wouldn't wish Hell on my worst enemies, let alone strangers over the internet. People should be educated and learn about the Creator.. This website should serve as a much better place of learning than it currently is.



Now back in 622 AD, when Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), like all the Prophets before him (including Moses (who said his troubles were with Moses), and Jesus) , were assigned to call people towards God. What were they met with? Prophets, who were specifically put on Earth as a mercy to help their people tread the path of providence to God, and compel them to do that which is ultimately good for them, had to deal with:

- Mockery

- Slander

- Character assassination
ex.
- People cracking jokes
ex.
- Attempts to poison his food
ex.
- More mockery
ex.
- Accusations of being "bewitched"
ex.

What are you and Kyrie doing, right now, Nick? It is a very evil thing to deny the Truth because it came out of the mouths of someone that's not part of your "tribe". That's the very definition of racism.

DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINKS if you're scared of getting banned:
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=776&Itemid=60
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=275&Itemid=36 (Curse for people who hide religious commandments)
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=955&Itemid=61
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1819&Itemid=89
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1250&Itemid=62
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=36
DO NOT CLICK THE ABOVE LINKS if you're scared of getting banned:


History repeats itself in all ways. Now, I'm just a guy among you, nothing special about me. But I've been on the boards for 12 years and have grown quite fond of a large number of you. As if you're my brothers.

As brothers, we can agree we want what's best for each other, yes? For starters, let's at least try to prevent each other from going down dark paths towards Hell, yeah?

The first step is to know God
https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_Knowing_Allah_Purpose_of_Our_Existence_and_Our_ End_Allah_Makes_All_That_Known_by_His_Words.pdf
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-knowledge.html
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1014.htm
http://thetorah.com/seeking-torah-god/

[K Xerxes]

In an alternate reality where space/time/etc don't exist, explaining how a higher power came to be might be much easier.

The universe just popping up out of no where for no reason is also a shit explanation.

If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for their god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a God who cares when you have sex and who with... That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for their god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a God who cares when you have sex and who with... That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.

"Their" God?

Prove you have even a rudimentary understanding of the God of Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Muhammad. In 500 words or less. Go.

[Nick Young]

Christianity and Islam are by definition corrupted offshoots of Judaism. Recorded histories of all three religions support my claim.

Judaism, no branch of it, believes in an inescapable eternal hell.

The closest thing to a Jewish version of hell as you call it is Gehinnom. According to Jewish belief, parts of souls that sin go there to purify, but they do not remain there eternally. After burning for a year maximum, that section of the soul goes up to God to rest eternally in peace. Have you never heard of Yom Kippur? What do you think it's about?


It is typical that a follower of a corrupt offshoot of Judaism fails to properly understand the true and original concept of hell. It is typical of these offshoot sects that their followers fail to have any nuance or subtlety in their understanding of Gehinnom.

[97 bulls]

If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for their god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a God who cares when you have sex and who with... That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.
And here in lies the problem. The reason that most people are atheists is because following god would mean they should and are prohibited from a lifestyle they don't want to change. Atheism helps them justify their actions.

[fiddy]

"Their" God?

Prove you have even a rudimentary understanding of the God of Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Muhammad. In 500 words or less. Go.
Religious people are cowards and retarded. There's no god as described in religion teachings.

[97 bulls]

Christianity and Islam are by definition corrupted offshoots of Judaism. Histories of all three religions support my claim.

Judaism, no branch of it, believes in an inescapable eternal hell.

The closest thing to a Jewish version of hell as you call it is Gehinnom. According to Jewish belief, parts of souls that sin go there to purify, but they do not remain there eternally. After burning for a year maximum, that section of the soul goes up to God to rest eternally in peace.


It is typical that a follower of a corrupt offshoot of Judaism fails to properly understand the true and original concept of hell.
Interesting concept. I have often questioned the concept of hell as most Christian faiths teach. I don't see why God would need to punish us in such a harsh way. And I don't see how that's love. I belive that hell is just eternal rest.

[97 bulls]

Religious people are cowards and retarded. There's no god as described in religion teachings.
Wow. This is insulting.

[fiddy]

Wow. This is insulting.
Zero tolerance for stupid (religious) people.

[97 bulls]

Zero tolerance for stupid (religious) people.
Hold on. Religious people that are stupid? Or are all religious people stupid?

[K Xerxes]

"Their" God?

Prove you have even a rudimentary understanding of the God of Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Muhammad. In 500 words or less. Go.

Why do I need to provide a rudimentary understanding of any God? If I was to do so for Yahweh or Allah, then it would only make sense that I need to acquire an understanding of Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Xolotl, Zeus, and however many Gods that have been posited to exist. Just because some of these belief systems are no longer in fashion does not necessarily make them any less 'true' considering the God of Abraham and Muhammad does not provide verifiable evidence for His existence.

The onus is on the side asserting the positive claim: that X God exists. Provide me convincing evidence that your God exists and I will evaluate it, and come to a conclusion. Ideally something that is less subjective than faith, or even morality.

As it stands, I was born and raised as Muslim before I realised it was a pile of shit, so I have a good understanding of Islam and Christianity. Unfortunately I didn't really look that far into Judaism as I didn't want to invest any more of my life in these fantasies, but I assume I have the general gist from its successors.


And here in lies the problem. The reason that most people are atheists is because following god would mean they should and are prohibited from a lifestyle they don't want to change. Atheism helps them justify their actions.

No, I assure you most atheists do not follow God because there is a lack of convincing evidence for its existence. If you need an imaginary being to help you differentiate between moral and immoral actions, then fair enough, but to assume that humans don't have that capacity in themselves is ignorance.

[Patrick Chewing]

Religious people are cowards and retarded. There's no god as described in religion teachings.


I'm neither cowardly nor retarded. Please apologize.

[97 bulls]

Why do I need to provide a rudimentary understanding of any God? If I was to do so for Yahweh or Allah, then it would only make sense that I need to acquire an understanding of Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Xolotl, Zeus, and however many Gods that have been posited to exist. Just because some of these belief systems are no longer in fashion does not necessarily make them any less 'true' considering the God of Abraham and Muhammad does not provide verifiable evidence for His existence.

The onus is on the side asserting the positive claim: that X God exists. Provide me convincing evidence that your God exists and I will evaluate it, and come to a conclusion. Ideally something that is less subjective than faith, or even morality.

As it stands, I was born and raised as Muslim before I realised it was a pile of shit, so I have a good understanding of Islam and Christianity. Unfortunately I didn't really look that far into Judaism as I didn't want to invest any more of my life in these fantasies, but I assume I have the general gist from its successors.



No, I assure you most atheists do not follow God because there is a lack of convincing evidence for its existence. If you need an imaginary being to help you differentiate between moral and immoral actions, then fair enough, but to assume that humans don't have that capacity in themselves is ignorance.
I nevery said that humans don't have the capacity to be be moral. And besides, you alluded to sex. Not overall morals. But as far as morals and atheism, here's my ultimate rebuttal that atheists have no response for, who makes the decision on what's moral? And whoever does, wouldn't that be imposing their will on others? It's hypocritical. But then again, since atheists have no morals, maybe that's ok.

[Nick Young]

http://philosophy.blogs.com/mc_philosophy/images/locke_god.jpg

http://philosophy.blogs.com/mc_philosophy/images/spinoza_proof_1.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ed/bc/e2/edbce28af7b1cba0029784e32e184ab3.jpg

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Why do I need to provide a rudimentary understanding of any God? If I was to do so for Yahweh or Allah, then it would only make sense that I need to acquire an understanding of Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Xolotl, Zeus, and however many Gods that have been posited to exist. Just because some of these belief systems are no longer in fashion does not necessarily make them any less 'true' considering the God of Abraham and Muhammad does not provide verifiable evidence for His existence.

The onus is on the side asserting the positive claim: that X God exists. Provide me convincing evidence that your God exists and I will evaluate it, and come to a conclusion. Ideally something that is less subjective than faith, or even morality.

As it stands, I was born and raised as Muslim before I realised it was a pile of shit, so I have a good understanding of Islam and Christianity. Unfortunately I didn't really look that far into Judaism as I didn't want to invest any more of my life in these fantasies, but I assume I have the general gist from its successors.



No, I assure you most atheists do not follow God because there is a lack of convincing evidence for its existence. If you need an imaginary being to help you differentiate between moral and immoral actions, then fair enough, but to assume that humans don't have that capacity in themselves is ignorance.


The bolded do not add up, in the slightest. The underline are very incorrect.

You have not comprehended the Qu'ran.

[~primetime~]

If you need to suggest an alternative reality to explain the existence of your higher power, you may as well cut out the superfluous higher power all together,. Why can't the universe come from such an alternate reality without the need for divine mediator, for which there exists absolutely no empirical evidence for?

The problem with theists is that none of their commonly used onto/cosmo/teleo -logical arguments are convincing for their god. At their best, they support a deistic or pantheistic model, which can deal with the god of gaps far better than a God who cares when you have sex and who with... That is unless we go in the completely arbitrary field of faith and, even worse, claims of divine scripture.
An alternate reality/other dimensions/etc has to exist to explain God...A God can not exist in this reality, this universe...The laws of science here won't allow for it.

I agree the most religions here are not convincing and are probably false...that doesn't mean the big bang happened out of no where. To me it is far more probable that it was designed. How lucky are we that this reality just happened to come equipped with gravity and light and time.

[K Xerxes]

I nevery said that humans don't have the capacity to be be moral. And besides, you alluded to sex. Not overall morals.

Sex is an example. Other examples include what we eat or drink and what clothes we wear.


But as far as morals and atheism, here's my ultimate rebuttal that atheists have no response for, who makes the decision on what's moral? And whoever does, wouldn't that be imposing their will on others? It's hypocritical. But then again, since atheists have no morals, maybe that's ok.

It's your 'ultimate rebuttal' because you think that we require objective morality to govern us, hence it's fine to fabricate and worship an imaginary moral arbiter.

The bottom line is that there is no objective morality, and that's fine. We implement laws and customs in societies that are designed (or meant to be) for the common good, whether it be for a small tribe or globally. Incidentally, these values change as we progress or develop from other societies. For example, it was morally acceptable, and even convention, to marry young girls when the Abrahamic religions took off, regardless of their ability to provide mature consent. That has changed in many places. Because we - humans - realised it was wrong. It doesn't mean it is objectively wrong

Also I am not denying that religion has made a large and incredibly important contribution to our morals. One of the main reasons I believe religion has been so successful is the somewhat innate desire for an objective moral compass to live by. But that does not make it any more true. What does morality have to do with the veracity of God's existence? Nothing. It can be explained as a primitive man-made concept to cope with the solitude our ancestors struggled with in a world they did not understand.

[K Xerxes]

The bolded do not add up, in the slightest. The underline are very incorrect.

You have not comprehended the Qu'ran.

Of course you will say that. Muslims such as yourself cannot comprehend an objective account of the Qur'an that leads to the conclusion that it is most likely nonsense.

I've read the arguments. The scientific miracle (the egg shaped earth, the big bang, the clot fetus, mountain movements and whatever else) which I was inundated with when I was a young and dumb Zakir Naik stan. The literary miracle that nothing can be produced in the poetry and prose of the Qur'an. I admit it is a gorgeous piece of arabic, but that does not make it true.

Sorry to say there's no convincing evidence.

[~primetime~]

On a more scientific level, there is 'evidence' (not proof) that our consciousness is separate from our brain/body.

-The phenom of children that can recall past lives is very real, there are literally hundreds of examples of them, which is very strong evidence for reincarnation IMO. HERE is one of the more famed examples (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnXxC-nVsJY)

-There are enough out of body experiences for many doctors to come to the conclusion that we can in fact leave our bodies. Many documented cases of people in hospitals being able to tell others what they were doing in other rooms or areas that their body was not located. HERE is a book written by a neurosurgeon who used to be atheist on the subject, all proceeds from the book are donated to research on it, he makes nothing. (http://www.ebenalexander.com/books/proof-of-heaven/)

-Several documented cases of the blind having NDEs and being able to see for the first time ever. Without eyes. There are also several NDE cases where there are no recorded brain waves, meaning it could not have been a 'brain trip'. Pam Reynolds had an NDE while brain dead (http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-have-ndes-while-brain-dead.html)

[Im Still Ballin]

Chalk up another hit thread for Im Still Ballin. Leave my check at the door Jeff.

[Dresta]

Why do I need to provide a rudimentary understanding of any God? If I was to do so for Yahweh or Allah, then it would only make sense that I need to acquire an understanding of Brahman, Ahura Mazda, Xolotl, Zeus, and however many Gods that have been posited to exist. Just because some of these belief systems are no longer in fashion does not necessarily make them any less 'true' considering the God of Abraham and Muhammad does not provide verifiable evidence for His existence.

The onus is on the side asserting the positive claim: that X God exists. Provide me convincing evidence that your God exists and I will evaluate it, and come to a conclusion. Ideally something that is less subjective than faith, or even morality.

As it stands, I was born and raised as Muslim before I realised it was a pile of shit, so I have a good understanding of Islam and Christianity. Unfortunately I didn't really look that far into Judaism as I didn't want to invest any more of my life in these fantasies, but I assume I have the general gist from its successors.



No, I assure you most atheists do not follow God because there is a lack of convincing evidence for its existence. If you need an imaginary being to help you differentiate between moral and immoral actions, then fair enough, but to assume that humans don't have that capacity in themselves is ignorance.You aren't even attempting to give the religious argument a fair hearing, a sure sign of a closed mind; I really don't have time for people who are so scathing when it comes to religion, yet they don't even know or understand what the religious argument is. It doesn't exactly take a genius to recognise that "because I feel that way" is not an objective basis for morality.

Morality (i.e. what we consider good and bad) is a product of culture and thus fundamentally, of religion; our moral-sense (i.e. that we intrinsically discriminate between good and bad) is innate, a part of being a member of the human species. You have provided no reason as to why you have the moral beliefs you do, nor on what foundation they rest--nor have you explained why what is good and what is bad differs from culture to culture, civilisation to civilisation, all throughout human history.

[Dresta]

On a more scientific level, there is 'evidence' (not proof) that our consciousness is separate from our brain/body.

-The phenom of children that can recall past lives is very real, there are literally hundreds of examples of them, which is very strong evidence for reincarnation IMO. HERE is one of the more famed examples (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnXxC-nVsJY)

-There are enough out of body experiences for many doctors to come to the conclusion that we can in fact leave our bodies. Many documented cases of people in hospitals being able to tell others what they were doing in other rooms or areas that their body was not located. HERE is a book written by a neurosurgeon who used to be atheist on the subject, all proceeds from the book are donated to research on it, he makes nothing. (http://www.ebenalexander.com/books/proof-of-heaven/)

-Several documented cases of the blind having NDEs and being able to see for the first time ever. Without eyes. There are also several NDE cases where there are no recorded brain waves, meaning it could not have been a 'brain trip'. Pam Reynolds had an NDE while brain dead (http://www.near-death.com/science/evidence/people-have-ndes-while-brain-dead.html)
You're better off bringing up quantum mechanics here. There is no way someone with a scientistic habit of mind would even consider the slightest possibility that those things have any merit or possible truth to them. But physicists have increasingly found the need to reintroduce the notion of "consciousness" as separate from matter, into their equations. Some of this stuff is very counter-intuitive and even calls the concept of causality into question (which would support the religious thesis).

Hume had already proven how causality cannot be validated by experience or logic 250+ years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ6L7QNFws

Perhaps it is our brains that need causality and not the universe? A mechanistic interpretation is not the only interpretation of the universe, and it certainly has its own internal inconsistencies.

[~primetime~]

You're better off bringing up quantum mechanics here. There is no way someone with a scientistic habit of mind would even consider the slightest possibility that those things have any merit or possible truth to them. But physicists have increasingly found the need to reintroduce the notion of "consciousness" as separate from matter, into their equations. Some of this stuff is very counter-intuitive and even calls the concept of causality into question (which would support the religious thesis).

Hume had already proven how causality cannot be validated by experience or logic 250+ years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tZ6L7QNFws

Perhaps it is our brains that need causality and not the universe? A mechanistic interpretation is not the only interpretation of the universe, and it certainly has its own internal inconsistencies.
You're right, I tried to make it clear it wasn't actual scientific proof...I'm just saying that there is in fact -evidence- out there for those (like myself) that need more than just blind faith.

[K Xerxes]

Morality (i.e. what we consider good and bad) is a product of culture and thus fundamentally, of religion

See:


Also I am not denying that religion has made a large and incredibly important contribution to our morals.

The contribution of religion to morality does not make it any more or less true. Whether it was devoted to a higher being or not, it's still very likely man made. I care far more about the veracity of the claims, of which the most reliable way to ascertain the truth is through empirical evidence.


our moral-sense (i.e. that we intrinsically discriminate between good and bad) is innate, a part of being a member of the human species.

Innate =/= objective. It is innate as far as it is evolutionary, such as not to kill your kin who harbour most of your genome. Whether evolutionary instincts are right or wrong is a completely different matter, and, of course, humans have evolved to instill customs that are clearly counterproductive to the evolutionary goal of propagating our genome. Why that is the case is both extremely interesting and unknown. See The Selfish Gene.

Unfortunately, it is not objectively immoral to rape someone. We perceive it as wrong because we have developed moral notions such as consent and non-maleficence, which we deem to be conducive to our existence in a society. It is thus immoral, but subjectively so. There's nothing wrong with that. It's how it is, and people need to accept that, so we can cut out the unnecessary moral arbiter.


You have provided no reason as to why you have the moral beliefs you do, nor on what foundation they rest--nor have you explained why what is good and what is bad differs from culture to culture, civilisation to civilisation, all throughout human history.

The is incredibly difficult, and bordering on impossible. At most I can say it is a combination of an innate sense formed and reformed by evolution, combined with conditioning from the society I live in.

My justification is irrelevant to the topic of whether to believe in a divine being though, which is what I'm far more interested in.

[gigantes]

Checkmate Atheists!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/--yUk6sRYfKs/UCRQtj3gakI/AAAAAAAAIww/l0HmuRDTRBA/s1600/atheism%2Bmakes%2Bno%2Bsense.jpg
i guess it's 'checkmate' in the sense that you defeated a straw man.

last i checked, there is not a lot of glory involved in defeating a cartoon opponent.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Of course you will say that. Muslims such as yourself cannot comprehend an objective account of the Qur'an that leads to the conclusion that it is most likely nonsense.

I've read the arguments. The scientific miracle (the egg shaped earth, the big bang, the clot fetus, mountain movements and whatever else) which I was inundated with when I was a young and dumb Zakir Naik stan. The literary miracle that nothing can be produced in the poetry and prose of the Qur'an. I admit it is a gorgeous piece of arabic, but that does not make it true.

Sorry to say there's no convincing evidence.


So while you were typing I did a few errands and read this Ayat. (I have never read the Quran in its entirety and this was the first)


Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers

O you who have believed, whoever of you should revert from his religion - Allah will bring forth [in place of them] a people He will love and who will love Him [who are] humble toward the believers, powerful against the disbelievers; they strive in the cause of Allah and do not fear the blame of a critic. That is the favor of Allah ; He bestows it upon whom He wills. And Allah is all-Encompassing and Knowing.

Then is it the judgement of [the time of] ignorance they desire? But who is better than Allah in judgement for a people who are certain [in faith].

Moral relativism was once what people called justice a long time ago (in days of ignorance)..

You are invited to do a rereading of the book to understand the nature of God.

Do not use the word "objective" for future reference. A person with skin in the game, ego, and arrogance is going to see things very differently than the humble, sincere and faithful. Their sense of self, which Hume accurately also stated was not much else than a "collection of senses etc" did not over blow to the proportion where they think themselves independent from the Creator etc.. we can do back and forth but that's ultimately the main flaw in your thinking xerxes



And women are allowed to say no to their husbands propositions FYI.

[fiddy]

Hold on. Religious people that are stupid? Or are all religious people stupid?
The latter.

[Nick Young]

The latter.
Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were stupid. Leo Tolstoy and Thomas Hobbes were stupid.

[fiddy]

Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were stupid. Leo Tolstoy and Thomas Hobbes were stupid.
To some extend.

[97 bulls]

The latter.
So if someone disagrees with you and wants to kill you over that, why would anyone have the moral authority to come up against them?

[Dresta]

Charles Darwin and Isaac Newton were stupid. Leo Tolstoy and Thomas Hobbes were stupid.
Yes, Max Planck too! (as well as many other high-profile physicists)


As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.


"Every serious and reflective person realizes, I think, that the religious element in his nature must be recognized and cultivated if all the powers of the human soul are to act together in perfect balance and harmony. And, indeed, it was not by any accident that the greatest thinkers of all ages were also deeply religious souls, even though they made no public show of their religious feeling."


Bunch of morons!

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

You know, fiddy, did once rebuke Jeff for making money off such a crappy forum.....

[K Xerxes]

So while you were typing I did a few errands and read this Ayat. (I have never read the Quran in its entirety and this was the first)


If you haven't read the whole thing and critically analysed it yourself, then you're not a Muslim. You're a sheep.

But I'm not surprised. It is an excrutiatingly dull book, only rivalled by the Bible in its sleep induction quality.


Moral relativism was once what people called justice a long time ago (in days of ignorance)..

You are invited to do a rereading of the book to understand the nature of God.

Do not use the word "objective" for future reference. A person with skin in the game, ego, and arrogance is going to see things very differently than the humble, sincere and faithful. Their sense of self, which Hume accurately also stated was not much else than a "collection of senses etc" did not over blow to the proportion where they think themselves independent from the Creator etc.. we can do back and forth but that's ultimately the main flaw in your thinking xerxes

I really have no clue what your argument is. It seems like you're just stringing words together at this point.

[Nick Young]

To some extend.
To some extend. Yes. You are a fitting judge of stupidity indeed.

[gigantes]

If you haven't read the whole thing and critically analysed it yourself, then you're not a Muslim. You're a sheep.

But I'm not surprised. It is an excrutiatingly dull book, only rivalled by the Bible in its sleep induction quality.
so you're saying a muslim is either false or a zombie?

i'm so confused.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

If you haven't read the whole thing and critically analysed it yourself, then you're not a Muslim. You're a sheep.


But I'm not surprised. It is an excrutiatingly dull book, only rivalled by the Bible in its sleep induction quality.

No need to criticize. The problem is not the books it's your attention span.



I really have no clue what your argument is. It seems like you're just stringing words together at this point.


- Surah Alaq 5:6 (Man transgresses because he thinks himself independent)
That ayat alone describes your behavior and worldview and life in a nutshell. Look at your posts beginning with the earliest of the thread. "Why can't we admit the universe came in and of itself?" Are you seriously implying that each atom in and of its own has a perfect intelligence where it can foresee and arrange itself in accordance to where it belongs to compose the heavens and earth. That's ridiculous.

Religious people believe that there is One God who is creating nourishing maintaining every atom of the universe.

it's no surprise that just like your inner psychologically perceives your ego as not needing God projects the same to the Universes origins.


- Objective is defined as being fair minded. It is impossible for you to be fair minded to people of a religious orientation because a) you choose your judgment over Divine Command and thus will by the very flawed nature of your psychology wield excess dislike for practices in disharmony with your worldview b) you can't even see what people with faith see because forgetting God while contemplating over the universe will render many many things as insignificant and disorderly. When people receive light and guidance they see meaning beauty, order and harmony where there is chaos. Their very consciousness and eyes are directed, by Allah's command, just as how all the creatures of the world have a method to their migrations.
They are not in rebellion against God.


While you play the role of critic and speak to an already irreligious audience the merits of cultural relativism, you sacrifice moments of your precious time and others. When you and I die, God forbid, were going to regret not having done more good for humanity.


The solution to the a) is self mortification, purification of the heartand ego dissolution. That is gained through spiritual practices. When one attains legitimate detachment from the world and loses all notion of "I" AND understands history, politics, religion, law, then they can maybe be closer to "Objective". That and repeatedly understanding ones limitations and sharpening the mind to be sounder and sounder of judgment. The Quran also states Moses and Joseph were given wisdom.and judgment because they themselves consistently did good deeds.

. The solution to the second issue is remembering God and knowing that through knowing God is the very key to unlocking the mysteries of the creation of the universe.

[Nick Young]

RIP Atheism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJXN5VPkyH8)

[fiddy]

You know, fiddy, did once rebuke Jeff for making money off such a crappy forum.....
Poor attempt to have some things changed around here. "A new design has been in the works, expect changes in the next 2 weeks". Also he allegedly is paying for the site out of his pocket, rather than making money of ISH constantly.


So if someone disagrees with you and wants to kill you over that, why would anyone have the moral authority to come up against them?
Religion and morality? Lol

[K Xerxes]

so you're saying a muslim is either false or a zombie?

i'm so confused.

Sheep come in two forms. They either know little about their religion and follow it simply because they were indoctrinated to believe in it. Or they have researched their religion, but under some confirmation bias-tinted glasses, and accrue a lot of knowledge all under the assumption that it's true anyway.

The only way to truly be a believer, in my opinion, is to step back and assume a position of extreme doubt. Critically analyse a belief system and if you still conclude it to be true, then fair enough. It is impossible to be completely objective, but the more distance you place between the religion and yourself initially, the stronger and more convincing your belief will be. It just so happens that I analysed Islam (and christianity) as a teen and found it to be nonsense.

[gigantes]

Sheep come in two forms. They either know little about their religion and follow it simply because they were indoctrinated to believe in it. Or they have researched their religion, but under some confirmation bias-tinted glasses, and accrue a lot of knowledge all under the assumption that it's true anyway.

The only way to truly be a believer, in my opinion, is to step back and assume a position of extreme doubt. Critically analyse a belief system and if you still conclude it to be true, then fair enough. It is impossible to be completely objective, but the more distance you place between the religion and yourself initially, the stronger and more convincing your belief will be. It just so happens that I analysed Islam (and christianity) as a teen and found it to be nonsense.
fair points; i understand.

although i would generally not recommend having one's teenage self make life-long decisions on one's behalf. they're not exactly the most well-rounded of individuals, after all.

[KiiiiNG]

Whatever P Tiddy believes, I believe the opposite.

Can somebody tell me what tiddy's arguing so I can know what my beliefs are?

[~primetime~]

Whatever P Tiddy believes, I believe the opposite.

Can somebody tell me what tiddy's arguing so I can know what my beliefs are?
I'm arguing that atheism and agnosticism are two different things.

Which means you believe they are the same.

You're wrong

[Im Still Ballin]

Whatever P Tiddy believes, I believe the opposite.

Can somebody tell me what tiddy's arguing so I can know what my beliefs are?
Welcome to my award winning hit new thread, grab yourself a beverage from the snackbar and enjoy the show!

[Micku]

If you don't know, you're an agnostic, not an atheist

Atheists claim there is no creator, that space, time, light, matter, etc just came to exist from nothing.

That's not true. Atheist believes there is no god. That's that. That has nothing to do with cosmology.

You can say that you don't believe in any gods, and at the same time say that you don't know how the universe came into being. But if you were say that nothing breeds nothing. So, it has to be something to create it. Then who created the creator? The creator could be external, but you'll end up with a endless loop of a philosophical question that we either could never understand or yet to.

You could even say that there is literally no such thing as nothing. There's always something. Even in space, where there is a vaccum, there are photons, electromagnetic radiation, cosmic background radiation, dark matter, energy, dark energy, higgs boson, antiparticles, virtual particles that pop out every now and then. Everything is constantly moving down to the quarks that make up the sub atomic particles that would make up elements that we need to survive.

We still have a lot to learn about the universe. No one has the complete answers, but explanation. A while back, it appeared that virtual particles appear out of nothing. They appear and disappear out of existence all the time. But in actuality they don't...not really. It depends on the value of energy and the field. With the uncertainty principle, a mass of a 9.11x10^^-31 Kg can appear in existence for about 3.22x10^^-22 secs or less.

We don't know if there is literally nothing. We don't know there is a creator. We do have evidence that the universe wasn't always like this and it's constantly expanding. But expanding into what? You'll get answers that the universe is all there is, and it doesn't need anything to expand into. It's just expanding. If there is something out there to expand into, it would part of the universe. It's a unsatisfying answer, but it could be the truth. Who knows.

There shouldn't be any shame in saying "I don't know" to something as complicated as cosmology. It's being honest and humble. But you can say that you don't believe in any gods. There are some gods who don't even deal with cosmology. Those two are mutually exclusive.

[~primetime~]

That's not true. Atheist believes there is no god. That's that. That has nothing to do with cosmology.

You can say that you don't believe in any gods, and at the same time say that you don't know how the universe came into being. But if you were say that nothing breeds nothing. So, it has to be something to create it. Then who created the creator? The creator could be external, but you'll end up with a endless loop of a philosophical question that we either could never understand or yet to.

You could even say that there is literally no such thing as nothing. There's always something. Even in space, where there is a vaccum, there are photons, electromagnetic radiation, cosmic background radiation, dark matter, energy, dark energy, higgs boson, antiparticles, virtual particles that pop out every now and then. Everything is constantly moving down to the quarks that make up the sub atomic particles that would make up elements that we need to survive.

We still have a lot to learn about the universe. No one has the complete answers, but explanation. A while back, it appeared that virtual particles appear out of nothing. They appear and disappear out of existence all the time. But in actuality they don't...not really. It depends on the value of energy and the field. With the uncertainty principle, a mass of a 9.11x10^^-31 Kg can appear in existence for about 3.22x10^^-22 secs or less.

We don't know if there is literally nothing. We don't know there is a creator. We do have evidence that the universe wasn't always like this and it's constantly expanding. But expanding into what? You'll get answers that the universe is all there is, and it doesn't need anything to expand into. It's just expanding. If there is something out there to expand into, it would part of the universe. It's a unsatisfying answer, but it could be the truth. Who knows.

There shouldn't be any shame in saying "I don't know" to something as complicated as cosmology. It's being honest and humble. But you can say that you don't believe in any gods. Those two are mutually exclusive.

I like this post and agree with the bulk of it, but I am not a fan of the "but who created the creator" line. If the higher power is found in some alternate dimension where the rules of science are nothing like our own, then explaining how that power came to be could be simple...in that reality, it's beyond our imagination.

I think absolutely everything in this universe, including life, can be explained with science EXCEPT for it start, the Big Bang.

[~primetime~]

I don't think a higher power has to be some perfect all knowing force that treats everyone as equal and fairly.

If we humans created self aware AI within a virtual 3D world, then that AI would think of us as "God". We are not perfect, and we wouldn't care to treat our AI creation fairly.

Our God(s) may be no different...maybe they created this 3D reality and separated the galaxies to study us in different environments. They may not care to treat us as equals and they may be flawed greatly .

[gigantes]

@primetime,
is your argument about all that influenced by the recent science theory that our universe is a computer simulation?

either way, that theory is apparently gaining a good bit of traction in the academic world and has a lot of overlap with your argument and existentialism in general.




If the higher power is found in some alternate dimension where the rules of science are nothing like our own, then explaining how that power came to be could be simple...in that reality, it's beyond our imagination.
that's a really smart way of looking at it IMO.

[~primetime~]

@primetime,
is your argument about all that influenced by the recent science theory that our universe is a computer simulation?

either way, that theory is apparently gaining a good bit of traction in the academic world and has a lot of overlap with your argument and existentialism in general.




that's a really smart way of looking at it IMO.
My thoughts in that post didn't come from that but I have read up on that, apparently there are similarities throughput the universe that are similar to the way computer programs work, it's fascinating stuff.


I have always felt that both atheists and theists believe that any "God" has to be some perfect flawless being, but that just isn't realistic . A higher power would just be something vastly intelligent compared to humans. Like we are to ants. Ants would view us as "God" but we are flawed as ****. Our higher power could easily be the same way. Intelligence that makes us look like insects in comparison, but highly flawed, and no thought given to treating us fairly.

[Nick Young]

http://www.picshunger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/believe1.jpg

http://timscogitorium.com/tinblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Einstein-on-God.jpg


Hold this eternal L, atheists.

https://quotesaga.s3.amazonaws.com/quote/QS_f96d818ee00742ca9619d4958ef30b57.jpg

RIP ATHEISM

[Im Still Ballin]

Agnostics disguised as atheists!

[gigantes]

I have always felt that both atheists and theists believe that any "God" has to be some perfect flawless being, but that just isn't realistic. A higher power would just be something vastly intelligent compared to humans. Like we are to ants. Ants would view us as "God" but we are flawed as ****. Our higher power could easily be the same way. Intelligence that makes us look like insects in comparison, but highly flawed, and no thought given to treating us fairly.
it's pretty clear at this point that humans, like most other animals, are uncomfortable in the face of uncertainty. and the human brain being arguably the most complex of all animal brains on earth, is that much more uncomfortable... to the point of being easily terrified / neurotic at the vast complexity of the unknown.

at the risk of judging broad groups of ppl (seriously, who the f-ck am i to judge?), i think most people lack the humility and braveness to tackle being an agnostic... and therefore most people have more binary thinking about this stuff, tending to gravitate towards theism or atheism.

[Mr Feeny]

A few moments ago, you literally, called Christianity and Islam "corrupted offshoots," and claimed that there is no Hell. Both statements false according to all 3 Scriptures.

The penalty for people who lie, and the people who follow those who lie are very, very, very harsh. Let's hope we're not categorized under them, man. And Allah knows best.
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1934&Itemid=93


http://7768-presscdn-0-28.pagely.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/hell-fire-1.jpg


Hell is very, very, very real. Most people (includingmyself are in a spiritual slumber) and after death is as they become awake. I wouldn't wish Hell on my worst enemies, let alone strangers over the internet. People should be educated and learn about the Creator.. This website should serve as a much better place of learning than it currently is.



Now back in 622 AD, when Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), like all the Prophets before him (including Moses (who said his troubles were with Moses), and Jesus) , were assigned to call people towards God. What were they met with? Prophets, who were specifically put on Earth as a mercy to help their people tread the path of providence to God, and compel them to do that which is ultimately good for them, had to deal with:

- Mockery

- Slander

- Character assassination
ex.
- People cracking jokes
ex.
- Attempts to poison his food
ex.
- More mockery
ex.
- Accusations of being "bewitched"
ex.

What are you and Kyrie doing, right now, Nick? It is a very evil thing to deny the Truth because it came out of the mouths of someone that's not part of your "tribe". That's the very definition of racism.

DO NOT CLICK THE FOLLOWING LINKS if you're scared of getting banned:
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=776&Itemid=60
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=275&Itemid=36 (Curse for people who hide religious commandments)
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=955&Itemid=61
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1819&Itemid=89
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1250&Itemid=62
http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=122&Itemid=36
DO NOT CLICK THE ABOVE LINKS if you're scared of getting banned:


History repeats itself in all ways. Now, I'm just a guy among you, nothing special about me. But I've been on the boards for 12 years and have grown quite fond of a large number of you. As if you're my brothers.

As brothers, we can agree we want what's best for each other, yes? For starters, let's at least try to prevent each other from going down dark paths towards Hell, yeah?

The first step is to know God
https://d1.islamhouse.com/data/en/ih_books/single/en_Knowing_Allah_Purpose_of_Our_Existence_and_Our_ End_Allah_Makes_All_That_Known_by_His_Words.pdf
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-knowledge.html
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1014.htm
http://thetorah.com/seeking-torah-god/


The problem with this post is that you're doing the exact same thing that Nick Young and the rest of the Jews on here are doing. Everyone is assuming that their belief is correct and is almost dismissive of any any other suggestion otherwise.

You cannot quote Islamic religious scripture as proof to men who might not agree with you that he's a prophet of God.
This is tantamount to a Christian saying there is a limbo because the bible says so. Presuppositionalist approaches don't get us anywhere.

[Mr Feeny]

http://www.picshunger.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/believe1.jpg

http://timscogitorium.com/tinblog/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Einstein-on-God.jpg


Hold this eternal L, atheists.

https://quotesaga.s3.amazonaws.com/quote/QS_f96d818ee00742ca9619d4958ef30b57.jpg

RIP ATHEISM

Why would Isaac newton's opinion on religion matter? Or Einstein? They could be physics geniuses but they're entitled to their own view on ontology. And others might not agree.

[Mr Feeny]

As a man who has devoted his whole life to the most clear headed science, to the study of matter, I can tell you as a result of my research about atoms this much: There is no matter as such. All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.




Max Planck preceded quantum mechanics and wouldn't have had a clue what he's talking about when it comes to subatomic particles. Planck was clueless about wave particle duality and the quantization of electromagnetic waves' energy levels.
He was.a genius at his time and his constant is immensely important in the world of physics but this is a terrible quote to present. Max planck couldn't teach Niels Bhor, W. Heisenberg, Max Born or Albert Einstein the first thing about quarks, leptons, bosons or quantum mechanics.

[StephHamann]

Why would Isaac newton's opinion on religion matter? Or Einstein? They could be physics geniuses but they're entitled to their own view on ontology. And others might not agree.

"People who quote Einstein, think they are special snowflakes." Albert Einstein

[Mr Feeny]

"People who quote Einstein, think they are special snowflakes." Albert Einstein

:oldlol:

[Lebowsky]

"People who quote Einstein, think they are special snowflakes." Albert Einstein
He's surely the person with the most falsely-attributed quotes ever.

[jongib369]

You either have to believe the universe in its simplist form always existed, and eventually developed into what it is today after an unfathomable amount of time passed. Or that an all powerful, knowing god just always existed.

The former sounds more likely.

[UK2K]

From where I sit...

God is like Santa Claus. That's not really a bad thing.

It serves two purposes:

A) It teaches morals. It makes bad kids be good. 'If you aren't good, you get a lump of coal for Christmas' = 'If you aren't good, you are going to Hell'. It teaches people how to behave, how to help one another. Basically Jesus in the Bible is everything that every being on Earth should strive to be like: caring, loving, helping, forgiving. We all know if Jesus was real today, he'd be taken advantage of 100 times over and probably die alone, homeless in the gutter. Someone like him would be swindled out of all his money. He'd probably be made fun of, maybe even called a demon spawn by some. Turn the other cheek? He'd have the life beaten out of him after he got robbed and carjacked.

B) It gives people hope. Your life sucks? Oh well, you've got heaven. Lost your job, and house, and car, and wife? It's cool, when you go to heaven, none of that will matter? You're fat and ugly? No worries, everyone looks the same in heaven. It's a morale booster. Not to say that everyone who believes in God is poor and needs hope, but it gives people an 'end goal' to strive for, making them be better people.

I don't buy into it. You are what you are. You have one life, and when this life ends, your game is over. Over. One day, you and I and everyone we will ever know will be dead, and that's okay because that's how life works, and the world will go on.

It's just accepting that fact, for many, is difficult.

[~primetime~]

He's surely the person with the most falsely-attributed quotes ever.
That is probably true, but he was definitely a very spiritual theist.

[Dresta]

Max Planck preceded quantum mechanics and wouldn't have had a clue what he's talking about when it comes to subatomic particles. Planck was clueless about wave particle duality and the quantization of electromagnetic waves' energy levels.
He was.a genius at his time and his constant is immensely important in the world of physics but this is a terrible quote to present. Max planck couldn't teach Niels Bhor, W. Heisenberg, Max Born or Albert Einstein the first thing about quarks, leptons, bosons or quantum mechanics.
The bolded is simply not relevant to anything I quoted--an updated categorisation of particles has nothing to do with the quote, and it is very strange for you to think that it does. Why are you talking about quarks? These were not even theorised until the 1960s, when all those men you mentioned were already dead (or close to it). Max Planck was the father of quantum theory--and Planck's constant is central to the quantum mechanics you seem to think had nothing to do with him; Einstein's photoelectric effect couldn't exist without Planck, nor would Bohr's structure of the atom, Heisenberg's uncertainty principle--Planck is the father that ties all these great innovators together, so it is downright idiotic to dismiss what he has to say because other people have developed his ideas further (that is science, durr).

The man is absolutely seminal in the areas you say he is "clueless" about. I can only assume that you don't know what you're talking about.


Why would Isaac newton's opinion on religion matter? Or Einstein? They could be physics geniuses but they're entitled to their own view on ontology. And others might not agree.
You have a rather narrow interpretation of what physics is. Why wouldn't we want the religious opinions of people who have delved deeper into the conundrum of existence and the examination of reality, and how it can be understood, than almost anyone else?

They are almost the most qualified people there could possible be: they spend their entire lives studying the essence of reality, searching for patterns, and that makes them worth listening to. It doesn't make them infallible, but then no-one said they were.

[Nick Young]

Why would Isaac newton's opinion on religion matter? Or Einstein? They could be physics geniuses but they're entitled to their own view on ontology. And others might not agree.
The most innovative thinkers throughout history all believed in God. Hold this L atheist, atleast you got Bill Maher though XD

[warriorfan]

On average, people who do not believe in God have a smaller ***** than people who do

[StephHamann]

Morality (i.e. what we consider good and bad) is a product of culture and thus fundamentally, of religion; our moral-sense (i.e. that we intrinsically discriminate between good and bad) is innate, a part of being a member of the human species. .


Religious morality differs between good and evil, not good and bad. You are totally wrong on this.

[NumberSix]

yes

everyone is on the spectrum...those who couldn't care less or give it no thought at all would be agnostic
100% of people are agnostic.

[NumberSix]

Sex is an example. Other examples include what we eat or drink and what clothes we wear.
That only applies to Jews.

[Nick Young]

"People who quote Einstein, think they are special snowflakes." Albert Einstein
"People who believe they know better than Einstein, Newton, Darwin and Marcus Aurelius are morons."
-Steven Hawking

[Dresta]

Religious morality differs between good and evil, not good and bad. You are totally wrong on this.
Bad and evil are almost synonymous in the way I was using them (though bad can also mean other things--it is a broadly defined word): you are being pedantic. I simply used the word "bad" because the word "evil" has religious connotations in the minds of most, and is used differently to how it was a hundred years ago (more scarcely). Evil is generally a refined or extreme form of badness--you speak as if I used an entirely different concept (this might be a language problem, I dunno).

I've read everything Nietzsche ever published btw, most of it more than once, and his argument does not contradict the point I was making in the slightest (it is in fact, one of his major theses). That part you quoted is Nietzsche's argument about established morality in a nutshell.

[Patrick Chewing]

I don't think a higher power has to be some perfect all knowing force that treats everyone as equal and fairly.

If we humans created self aware AI within a virtual 3D world, then that AI would think of us as "God". We are not perfect, and we wouldn't care to treat our AI creation fairly.

Our God(s) may be no different...maybe they created this 3D reality and separated the galaxies to study us in different environments. They may not care to treat us as equals and they may be flawed greatly .


I think the answer to God, the Universe, our purpose, etc. lies in your response.

If we humans can create life, whether real life or artificial life, then it's not too far-fetched of an idea that we were created as well.

[Nick Young]

Look at evolution. Every species on the planet is pre-programmed to constantly adapt and improve upon itself.

[fiddy]

From where I sit...

God is like Santa Claus. That's not really a bad thing.

It serves two purposes:

A) It teaches morals. It makes bad kids be good. 'If you aren't good, you get a lump of coal for Christmas' = 'If you aren't good, you are going to Hell'. It teaches people how to behave, how to help one another. Basically Jesus in the Bible is everything that every being on Earth should strive to be like: caring, loving, helping, forgiving. We all know if Jesus was real today, he'd be taken advantage of 100 times over and probably die alone, homeless in the gutter. Someone like him would be swindled out of all his money. He'd probably be made fun of, maybe even called a demon spawn by some. Turn the other cheek? He'd have the life beaten out of him after he got robbed and carjacked.

B) It gives people hope. Your life sucks? Oh well, you've got heaven. Lost your job, and house, and car, and wife? It's cool, when you go to heaven, none of that will matter? You're fat and ugly? No worries, everyone looks the same in heaven. It's a morale booster. Not to say that everyone who believes in God is poor and needs hope, but it gives people an 'end goal' to strive for, making them be better people.

I don't buy into it. You are what you are. You have one life, and when this life ends, your game is over. Over. One day, you and I and everyone we will ever know will be dead, and that's okay because that's how life works, and the world will go on.

It's just accepting that fact, for many, is difficult.

:wtf: :roll:

[gigantes]

Look at evolution. Every species on the planet is pre-programmed to constantly adapt and improve upon itself.
that's not how evolution and natural selection work.

[Nick Young]

that's not how evolution and natural selection work.
Essentially it is exactly how evolution and natural selection work. Use your brain and think about what I said. :cheers:

[StephHamann]

(this might be a language problem, I dunno).

I've read everything Nietzsche ever published btw, most of it more than once, and his argument does not contradict the point I was making in the slightest (it is in fact, one of his major theses). That part you quoted is Nietzsche's argument about established morality in a nutshell.

Established morality right, which was perverted by religion, so that sheep mentality among other "virtues" was somehow good in a religious sense.

Our western morality is way older than christianity.

But you are right it could be a language problem, i never read Nietzsche in english.

Hardcore atheists are complete morons btw.

[gigantes]

Essentially it is exactly how evolution and natural selection work. Use your brain and think about what I said. :cheers:
haha brains... DELICIOUS BRAINS!

where are the hell are they, anyway...?

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Christianity and Islam are by definition corrupted offshoots of Judaism. Recorded histories of all three religions support my claim.

Judaism, no branch of it, believes in an inescapable eternal hell.

The closest thing to a Jewish version of hell as you call it is Gehinnom. According to Jewish belief, parts of souls that sin go there to purify, but they do not remain there eternally. After burning for a year maximum, that section of the soul goes up to God to rest eternally in peace. Have you never heard of Yom Kippur? What do you think it's about?


It is typical that a follower of a corrupt offshoot of Judaism fails to properly understand the true and original concept of hell. It is typical of these offshoot sects that their followers fail to have any nuance or subtlety in their understanding of Gehinnom.

History?
True and original concept?
Please don't inject guesses on extremely serious matters.

God sent down Jesus (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH) to correct, refresh the ways of the corrupt Children of Israel. Islam, that is submission to the will of Allah, began at the time of Adam and Eve.
The Dharmic religions also have an inferno in the afterlife for the wicked.

Surah 2:90 l: And they say, "Never will the Fire touch us, except for a few days." Say, "Have you taken a covenant with Allah ? For Allah will never break His covenant. Or do you say about Allah that which you do not know?

[Nick Young]

History?
True and original concept?
Please don't inject guesses on extremely serious matters.

God sent down Jesus (PBUH) and Muhammad (PBUH) to correct, refresh the ways of the corrupt Children of Israel. Islam, that is submission to the will of Allah, began at the time of Adam and Eve.
The Dharmic religions also have an inferno in the afterlife for the wicked.

Surah 2:90 l: And they say, "Never will the Fire touch us, except for a few days." Say, "Have you taken a covenant with Allah ? For Allah will never break His covenant. Or do you say about Allah that which you do not know?
So said the mortal men who wrote the new testament and koran.

offshoot sects of judaism.

[JBSptfn]

From where I sit...

God is like Santa Claus. That's not really a bad thing.

It serves two purposes:

A) It teaches morals. It makes bad kids be good. 'If you aren't good, you get a lump of coal for Christmas' = 'If you aren't good, you are going to Hell'. It teaches people how to behave, how to help one another. Basically Jesus in the Bible is everything that every being on Earth should strive to be like: caring, loving, helping, forgiving. We all know if Jesus was real today, he'd be taken advantage of 100 times over and probably die alone, homeless in the gutter. Someone like him would be swindled out of all his money. He'd probably be made fun of, maybe even called a demon spawn by some. Turn the other cheek? He'd have the life beaten out of him after he got robbed and carjacked.

B) It gives people hope. Your life sucks? Oh well, you've got heaven. Lost your job, and house, and car, and wife? It's cool, when you go to heaven, none of that will matter? You're fat and ugly? No worries, everyone looks the same in heaven. It's a morale booster. Not to say that everyone who believes in God is poor and needs hope, but it gives people an 'end goal' to strive for, making them be better people.

I don't buy into it. You are what you are. You have one life, and when this life ends, your game is over. Over. One day, you and I and everyone we will ever know will be dead, and that's okay because that's how life works, and the world will go on.

It's just accepting that fact, for many, is difficult.

And that is your Fundy Atheist minute.

[warriorfan]

It's over! Atheists lose!

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

And that is your Fundy Atheist minute.

Without the light of faith, things seem that way. And without protection against Satan, people tend to reverse cause and effects. Like religion was concocted, and that lack of belief is natural.

The truth is religion, and God's relationship with Adam, has been there since the very dawn of mankind.

It's only when people actively moved to cities, rebelled against God and engaged in self-worship, let the ego overflow, allowed artificial social conditioning to perturb their natural development, and soaked their brain into conjectural information (i.e. people in those nature documentaries don't actually know what's going on---they put their take on it) that took them away from observing nature and remembering God and where the epidemic of hopeless, dark atheistic though and denial of the afterlife multiplied (it was also always here since the beginning). Again, this was foreseen in all the Scriptures. And unfortunately, it is the predominant way of thinking in much of the World.

A natural understanding of One God, worship, understanding of the life to come, the spiritual unseen worlds, hope; they've all been understood by our ancestors dating several millenia back. It doesn't serve to teach morals or hope. Rather, the right way to conduct things in this world was ALREADY there, the best of human beings were already there, being rewarded for solid morals was already there; it was man to discover, learn, and apply them. Santa Claus and Christianity is only a tidbit reinforcing system of that; yet the Devils tricked you into swapping the orders of things.

Heaven isn't earned for free either, UK2K. That fat and ugly person you talk about has to actually earn it by undergoing trials and tribulations through the face of tremendous adversary. And no, nobody looks the same in Heaven. Your form in the Afterlife is based upon the conduct of your deeds as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EopyLLiNMGo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGOIpzDF8iE


If you don't believe in the Afterlife, you are implicitly stating that every single Prophet, Saint, Scholar, Theologian was a liar. They were the most honest and sincere of people. Now you may not directly think this; but there must be an Absolute Truth. . It's either they are right or you are wrong. Or they are partaking in things that are elevating their spirit in which they see things the way they do.


You speak of Jesus being taken advantage of. Yet, people who are a fraction, a minute fraction of as good as him are being honored everyday. Nelson Mandela, Malala Yousafzai etc. You're an incredibly nice guy, UK2K, and let me put it his way; when even a cruel human being takes advantage of another; it PAINS that cruel human being's heart big time. There's only so much pain a human being is willing to dish out at another human being till they SNAP and come to their senses from the inner conscience already created within their very nature. Jesus, a self-sufficient skilled carpenter who can fast and heal people is not going to go homeless. He would get made fun of, that's for sure; but people who mock others are usually not exactly the role models of society.


By the way I still owe you a rundown of your second post in this thread. Going to get back to that after a few days.

It makes sense if you put it like this.

Every single year, people witness cold, dead winters rejuvenated into fresh, blossoming springs. From here you understand the ease at which living things are Resurrected

Every single year, you see an order and balance among the world and universe at large. If all the bees were taken ou, th And you know a lot of good people die at the hands of evil. And in the faith of Islam, there is a Day of Recompense.
We were put on this first World, this World of the Test, to reap fruit for the more Eternal World.

Each person here, through accounting for their bills; realizes that a) they've been given the intelligence to reckon b) they've been given sight to see c) they've learned soundness of judgment on making financial decisions
The Creator must have had knowledge of man's faculties, and had Infinite ability of Reckoning, of Seeing, of Judging


Look at the animal kingdom out there, dude. Look at the trees. The oceans. The quarks. Think of the complete and total genius it takes for all these things to exist. Now, is it really impossible for the Intelligence behind that to recreate a human being?

Everybody here has taken tests and had received report cards; this is a small sign of what's to come after death.

Every single samurai, janissary, Spartan, soldier; in order to fulfill his mission had to believe in something really, really, really Great; and to fight to his very full capacity had to possess both strength, discipline, and intense fear. Yes. Fear. Fear that they'd displease God if they don't give it their all. Look up what George Patton had to say about how he mustered up the courage to charge. To quote, "He saw his ancestors waiting from the other side of Heaven beckoning him forth," https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J977bboa8hg

Moreover, accepting the fact that it may be difficult. Dude, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) lost his mom early, lost 3 of his sons, his uncle, his grandpap, his wife and had to do his mission solo against people who would physically assault him. Living in a scorching desert with limited water Like, come on now really, if man can psychologically handle that, he can easily handle non-existence after decrepit old age. This atheistic sentiment is just flat out foolish.


Anywho, there is an aching desire in the spirit of EVERY single human being to want to live forever, and you DO NOT see old people panic when they die. Why is that so?

[JBSptfn]

Jefferson Money, very well said. :applause:

[Nick Young]

It's over! Atheists lose!
Let's be real. Atheists lost this battle before it even began.:lol


There is a reason the atheists of ISH are constantly writing threads about how miserable and depressed they are in real life, and about how empty they feel.



Their entire lives are one big constant L.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xS7D1ZMj7ddvy/giphy.gif

[fiddy]

And without protection against Satan, people tend to reverse cause and effects.

Seek help before its too late :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

So said the mortal men who wrote the new testament and koran.

offshoot sects of judaism.

The problem with saying that is that an even less intelligent mortal men wrote the old testament. That's why it's poorly written and lacks an iota of logic .

[Nick Young]

The problem with saying that is that an even less intelligent mortal men wrote the old testament. That's why it's poorly written and lacks an iota of logic .
That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif

[JBSptfn]

That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif

They are also judging the OT by today's standards. I have seen atheists do this on several sites.

And, they take everything in the OT literally wooden, and seem to think that the law (beside the 10 Commandments) is in affect today (Christ fulfilled those laws).

There is this one atheist, Marshall Brain (of Why Won't God Heal Amputees fame) that said that God wants to kill people who work on Sunday :roll: .

[NumberSix]

That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif
The Old Testament was not written in Aramaic. And there are no English translations from Aramaic. All English translations of the bible are translated from the original greek for the New Testament and the Septuagint (Greek translation of the original Hebrew) for the Old Testament or from the original Latin translations of the same sources.

[Mr Feeny]

That's exactly the point of the Old Testament.

Also, what you read are bad English translations, translated from ancient Aramaic. Unless you have read the books in their original form, you have no way to judge whether it is well written or not.

God does not operate in a realm of logic that we are capable of understanding. That's pretty much the entire point of religion. We can never understand God. All we can do is marvel before him.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/142057620/large.gif

Except that God did not write the old testament.
The old testament is a wretched piece of work that my 17 year old nephew could have done a better job writing.

[Nick Young]

The Old Testament was not written in Aramaic. And there are no English translations from Aramaic. All English translations of the bible are translated from the original greek for the New Testament and the Septuagint (Greek translation of the original Hebrew) for the Old Testament or from the original Latin translations of the same sources.
Thanks for the correction breh but yalls know what I meant.


Feeny
The OT is the most influential work of literature in western civilization. The wisdom inside it has stood the test of time and the stories and characters have inspired the greatest works of art ever made.

Hold this L

[Dresta]

Except that God did not write the old testament.
The old testament is a wretched piece of work that my 17 year old nephew could have done a better job writing.
No, it's one of the finest compendiums of literature and poetry ever written. Next you'll be telling us that the Odyssey and Dante's Divine Comedy were hack jobs. But hey, don't take my word for it: this is the consensus opinion of the world's most distinguished authors:


The editors of the Norwegian Book Clubs, with the Norwegian Nobel Institute, polled a panel of 100 authors from 54 countries on what they considered the “best and most central works in world literature.” Among the authors polled were Milan Kundera, Doris Lessing, Seamus Heaney, Salman Rushdie, Wole Soyinka, John Irving, Nadine Gordimer, and Carlos Fuentes.

--Anon, The Book of Job

http://www.infoplease.com/ipea/A0934958.html

But what do they know, amirite?

And the King James Bible is only the foundation of the English language that you try to speak, and surely full of phrases and sayings you often repeat without even knowing their origin. Even though you have nothing but disdain for the Bible, the truth is that your consciousness has been to some extent moulded by it:

http://unlockingthebible.org/common-english-sayings-bible/

That makes you a living, walking, and breathing contradiction.

[Dresta]

The problem with saying that is that an even less intelligent mortal men wrote the old testament. That's why it's poorly written and lacks an iota of logic .
You do know that the language of the King James Bible was composed by a committee of the finest scholars in the country? In what world are people like this unintelligent?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Savile_(Bible_translator)


He was educated at Brasenose College, Oxford, where he matriculated in 1561. He became a fellow of Merton in 1565.[4] He established a reputation as a Greek scholar and mathematician by voluntary lectures on the Almagest, and in 1575 became junior proctor. In 1578 he travelled on the continent of Europe, where he collected manuscripts and is said to have been employed by Queen Elizabeth as her resident in the Low Countries. On his return he was named greek tutor to the Queen.

Attended Oxford at the age of 12, became a fellow of one of the most important Oxford colleges at 16, elite scholar of Greek and Mathematics, tutor to the Queen at 30.


n 1585 he was established as Warden of Merton by a vigorous exercise of the interest of Burghley and Secretary Walsingham. He proved a successful and autocratic head of house, generally unpopular with fellows and undergraduates, but under him the college flourished. His translation of four books of the Histories of Tacitus, with the learned Commentary on Roman Warfare (1591), enhanced his reputation.[6]

On 30 September 1604 Savile was knighted, and in that year he was named one of the body of scholars appointed to prepare the authorized version of the Bible. He was entrusted with parts of the gospels, the Acts of the Apostles and the Book of Revelation.

In 1619 he founded and endowed a chair in astronomy and a chair in geometry at Oxford, both bearing his name.

Indeed, what an intellectual bum.

But i'm sure you, Mr. Feeny, you're so much more intelligent than these great pioneers.

:hammerhead:

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Seek help before its too late :roll:

Firstly, it is the HEIGHT of intellectual arrogance to think that a kid who hasn't hit 30 knows the truth of man's existence whereas all the faithful people of the past haven't. Thinking religion came as a bandage to solve man's fear of death is switching out the order and is essentially the individual atheist's worldview. Who the hell am I to think the hundreds and millions of minds who have not been bombarded by, to quote Dresta, "the western Dogmas," that existed prior and concurrent were wrong about Adam and Eve, the Kingdom of Heaven; whereas I, having had only access to a slightly stronger knowledge of the details of science and technology in the 21st century (coupled with a weaker memory, less good deeds, and arguably duller intellect, less sound judgment and lower consciousness) would know the truth and they did not.

By the way, I'm not the one calling religious people "cowards and idiots" and calling for the nuking of the Middle East. Nor do I hate Atheists or think them bad people. Nor am I spending hundreds on bodybuilding supplements. Nor doing whatever you're doing that I'm not going to disclose in respects to your human dignity.

Like it or not, your thoughts are extremely dark and destructive. The same applies to a sizable portion of ISH. Now we both know you're not inherently evil. You've shown signs of compassion for fallen Russian men, and love for animals and a sense of equality etc. There's got to be some dark force compelling you to think the way you do.

Check out someone like mlh1981. Nothing but positivity, hope, love. And he's going through some DIFFICULT times. There's got to be a reason for that.

Here's what man is to guard himself against:

Satan

Deceives
-
-
Preys on the isolated and weak

Promotes arrogance

Promotes discord and mischief

Makes his chief aim misguidance and rebellion from Allah

Makes it sound alright to engage in things

Encourages humans to blame others for their faults instead of themselves

Places excessive guilt (despair and hopelessness) upon people who want to reform
keeps people thinking they are evil and worthless

Encourages people to be forgetful

Encourages people to mock one another

Oppression

Greed

Anger

Jealousy

Vengeance

Has man clinging with infatuation onto things that will eventually pass

Keeps people away from expressing gratitude or remorse towards Allah

Tempts people into indulging in pleasures ultimately harmful

Creates Separation between brothers

If at any point of your day, you experience so much as a single thought from the aforementioned tricks (and we all do), then you know the Devil has somewhat of an effect on you.

Conversely, forgiveness, love, patience, sincerity, unity, faith, gratitude, service, purity, love,preferring others to one self are the Angelic Characteristics.

Oh, and the greatest trick the Devil pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

But the fact that he was created is Good. He plays a crucial role into strengthening men spiritually. How can someone's muscles grow bigger without resistance training? How can someone refine spiritually without Satan's whisperings?


Ephesians 6:11
Put on the full armor of Allah, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.



Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.



Matthew 13:19
"When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.


How much have you understood from the Holy Books, fiddy? I'm barely scratching a fraction of a fraction of a percent of it, yet it's changed me so, so much.




Daniel 8:25
Verse Concepts
"And through his shrewdness He will cause deceit to succeed by his influence; And he will magnify himself in his heart, And he will destroy many while they are at ease. He will even oppose the Prince of princes, But he will be broken without human agency.

2 Timothy 3:13
Verse Concepts
But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

It's the rich and comfortable who are in largest danger of spiritual destruction.



2 Peter 2:1-3
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

Scantily clad ladies, glorification of alcohol, Huxley's Brave New World, atheistic thought like Communism, Nihilism, Godless ethical philosophies like Rand's ethical egoism, delicious food, broken promises, Darwinistic man vs man, insincere flattery etc.

[Mr Feeny]

You do know that the language of the King James Bible was composed by a committee of the finest scholars in the country? In what world are people like this unintelligent?:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Savile_(Bible_translator)



Attended Oxford at the age of 12, became a fellow of one of the most important Oxford colleges at 16, elite scholar of Greek and Mathematics, tutor to the Queen at 30.



Indeed, what an intellectual bum.

But i'm sure you, Mr. Feeny, you're so much more intelligent than these great pioneers.

:hammerhead:

You sound REALLY wound up:oldlol:
I'll retain my own opinion. I've read it front to back and I'll repeat that I think it's awful. If you don't, you're welcome to have the majority view. But it's only that - a viewpoint.

I think it's one of the biggest piles of gibberish I've ever read but that's only me.

[StephHamann]

Jefferson Money is the 3ball of radical Islam, fascinating.

[Dresta]

You sound REALLY wound up:oldlol:
I'll retain my own opinion. I've read it front to back and I'll repeat that I think it's awful. If you don't, you're welcome to have the majority view. But it's only that - a viewpoint.

I think it's one of the biggest piles of gibberish I've ever read but that's only me.
Wound up? Is that what you call someone pointing out your proud and ignorant stupidity? You've also failed to even make any refutation of what I wrote, other than hysterically claiming "it's my opinion dude." You can think what you want, but you couldn't be more wrong.

And it's not "just a viewpoint"--its influence and importance is factual and undeniable. Stop pretending to have read it, because you haven't, and the idea of you approaching it with anything like an open mind is downright laughable.

I'm sure you worked your way through 800,000 words of "gibberish". It's funny how you can write so little and yet still so obviously contradict and expose yourself: embarrassing.


It is as sport to a fool to do mischief: but a man of understanding hath wisdom.

You are the fool Mr. Feeny. You don't know anything about the Bible, have not read or studied it, and yet you come in here, mocking it, hoping to get a reaction (hence why you replied to my perfectly rational and reasonable post by joyously claiming I was "wound up"), and hoping to annoy people. That makes you a first-class fool and an incompetent sadist; rethink your life.

[NumberSix]

The OT is the most influential work of literature in western civilization. The wisdom inside it has stood the test of time and the stories and characters have inspired the greatest works of art ever made.
I don't know if I would go that far. It's only relatively recent that people would own their own bibles. For the majority of the history of Christian Europe, certainly in Western Europe, the only bibles were owned by churches and they were almost all in Latin. People's only experience with the bible until the rise of the printing press and cheap paper was the church experience which of course had a much greater focus on Jesus than the OT. I'd say the story of Jesus very obviously had much greater influence in Europe (and by extension European colonies) than the Old Testament.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

Ok, first off... :roll:

I started reading this post and thought 'no he's not bringing up AOE2'.

But to answer your question...

God didn't compel me not to kill the Afghans. I didn't kill them because I didn't want to kill them. There was no higher being telling me not to. There simply was no benefit to be gained. If there was? Maybe that changes things.

That's your explanation?
First question is this, "Who am I?"
I understand that I am a creation of God. Just like every other living and non-living organism. Thus, just as a bumblebee delivers nectar and pollinates flowers and just as trees give oxygen, I too have certain responsibilities to the One who made me.

Let's break down the event.
You, as US Soldier, did not shoot at other human beings.
What stopped you from doing such?
Through your mind, it was a "lack of desire" to do so. I must ask, what stops you from killing others? What really stops you?

Through these eyes, it seems clear your soul has an innate sense of compassion for other human beings, which was wired within your very nature. The Source of the wiring, the one who commanded the Angels to breathe the soul during your infancy, does not come from "I".' "I" is merely a temporary personal narrative, a tool used by the living human being to measure things.. I do not believe that you would have killed those Afghani people had there been some benefit. God only knows.



I don't believe in God (the Christian version of it anyway) because:

A) Being forced to worship him or burn in an entire pit of fire doesn't seem like much of a choice...
B) I've seen too much bad things to think there's a 'plan'. It's not a plan, it's luck. I've had EOD clear IED's out from where I had been sleeping the night before. Why didn't the IED go off while I was walking around on top of it? Was it God? Or was there some wiring flaw that caused it to malfunction?

A) Worship means to "orbit", serve, respect, revere, obey, a Higher Power. Everyone worships something, one way or another. Why not Worship the One who created you? A lot of people these days worship the "I"? Some build their lives on what feels good. Some build their lives on whatever their culture says. Point being, there's an optimal path you can take in your life that would grant you eternal peace, happiness, and fulfillment. You, me, your parents, and nobody knows what that path is. There is only One who knows and One who can guide. There are conditions to earn that guidance, however.


Through

B) "Bad" things. What denotes something as being bad or good? Without a clear understanding of the Afterlife, seeing a person dead sparks up horrific tragic feelings. What if the reality was that his early death was a huge blessing as it prevented worse things from happening in his permanent record, thus allowing for an easier, smoother afterlife.
What if the Eod's clearing up the IED's were Signs that He was always watching over you? Perhaps the flawed wiring was a Sign that their was something intrinsically wrong with your current mindset. God knows best.




Go watch the documentaries Restrepo or Korengal... 30 guys go on patrol, and the 8th one in line steps on a mine. God or just unlucky? 200 trucks go out in a convoy, the very last truck in the convoy is hit (wasn't a command det, it was a pressure plate)... Is that God? Or is the last truck just really ****ing unlucky to roll over it at the right place at the wrong time?

Luck is terminology for some strange cause/force of chaos, yeah?

Do you know how ordered the Universe is? Every single molecule on Earth is composed of the same molecules spinning in the same direction. The Sun and Moon follow a precise orbit.

Likewise, the people who were mean to pass were passed that very moment. The truck that was blown up was a Sign to the 199 at how completely fragile and reliant they are on His protection and ought to pave way to Remember Him and be Grateful to Him.

If anything the fact that the particular lagging individual died (who treaded that path) and not the several ones prior reaffirms that God is in complete control of all happenings.



Tornadoes rip apart whole towns and some people die, some live.

Planes crash and half the people live and half of them die.

That's just called luck. I was lucky I didn't get shot because I was in the right places at the right time. Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place, but I wasn't. God didn't save me from getting tagged hopping out of my truck... the fact my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck, causing me to get out on that side, did.

It's not God. It's me being lucky up until the point where I'm not so lucky.

Again, He was protecting you.
The events that unfolded were the following:

"Others did get shot, which could have easily been me had I been in their place."
But you weren't in their place.
You continued to live.
This ain't probability. You were in a position where you weren't killed over, and over, and over again; and it was certainly not by chance. God loves you. God loves all His creations more than a mother loves her infant.

"The fact that my pack was strapped to the OTHER side of the truck."
And what exactly was the force that compelled your pack to be strapped on the other side.
You don't usually have your pack strapped to the other side; no?
You just "accidentally" did in that situation.


Luck is nothing but a sham, dude. Every event that unfolded in your life happened for a specific reason and things will start to make sense as the heart grows in faith and illumination; the effects of consistent worship to Him. The fact that someone cares enough about you to sacrifice his night should set off some alarms.

You got to have an open mind and good faith, man and start seeing things as Signs from Him. Then the pathway to Peace and Happiness become,es clear.

Forgive my rather forceful tone, but being caught up in the traps of marriage, recreation, and things that distract you from Him would depress your spirits and I, in good faith, can not allow that. And thank you again, for not killing the Afghani people.

Assalamu Alaikum.

[CleveTown]

Atheists getting BTFO in this thread and in the after life.

[greymatter]

No there is a difference between the two.

A true atheist literally believes there is no creator(s)

Classic No-True-Scotsman fallacy.

There are "hard" and "soft" qualifiers for atheists and they still vary. The "A" in "atheist" means lack of. Lack of belief isn't the same thing as disbelief. The fact that such nuance escapes you is the hallmark of typical religionists.

In any case, the name of the thread title already told me that the OP is yet another typical inbred know-nothing bible beater who is insecure about the fact that atheists don't have to buy into his religion's fairy tales and generally lead much more successful lives.

[greymatter]

If you don't know, you're an agnostic, not an atheist

Atheists claim there is no creator, that space, time, light, matter, etc just came to exist from nothing.

1. No evidence for a creator
2. Only clueless simpletons attribute the "something from nothing" argument to atheism. A singularity of incalculable mass isn't "nothing". As the BB theory posits that the universe is ~14 billion years old, we'll never know for certain how it all started since we are incapable of time travel and even if we were, we wouldn't be able to survive the conditions of the physical universe at that time.

The bottom line is this:

Religion is about not questioning the answers while science is about seeking answers to the questions.

[greymatter]

Evolution doesn't explain what caused the Big Bang or why anything at all exists.

Its scope was never intended to address origins of life. Only that it occurs.

[greymatter]

Atheism is a religion. Atheists have a blind and unquestioning belief in whatever scientists tell them to believe, just as many evangelicals have blind belief in whatever their pastor tells them to believe.

And of course a thread about atheists isn't ever without one of the mind-numbingly stupid religionists projecting their insecurities. That insecurity being the fact that they don't like admitting that their default appeal to "not questioning the answers" is in reality a sign of intellectual laziness/inferiority to the "seeking answers to the questions" mindset that atheists are far more likely to ascribe to.

Science is always open to be questioned for its veracity. The same cant be said of religion.

[CleveTown]

everything needs to be created. Your cell phone, your computer or whatever you're using right now was created--probably in a factory or something like that, BY a human being or robot. Point is, there was a creator.

Now apply that same logic to the universe and you have GOD.

Why is this so hard to acknowledge?

[TommyGriffin]

Evolution is like a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and assembling a perfectly functioning Boeing 747.

[Nick Young]

RIP athiesm.

[CleveTown]

Evolution is like a tornado sweeping through a junkyard and assembling a perfectly functioning Boeing 747.
whoa cowboy, hold up a second there, you are putting the cart before the horse. BACK UP!
how did the "tornado" get here? The "junkyard"? TRACE IT BACK! How did the beginning pieces get here in order to create your perfect storm scenario? The Big Bang I guess--who created the Big Bang?

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[Kvnzhangyay]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[Draz]

There's a reason why athesim rhymes with autism

[DonDadda59]

There's a reason why athesim rhymes with autism

There's a reason athesim rhymes with dim.

[CleveTown]

Then who created God?

RIP religion.
God ALWAYS existed just like the Bible proclaims. He is eternal and exists outside of what we know and call time and space.

No matter which way you slice it, there has to be ONE eternal Being or an eternity of Gods creating subsequent Gods (which is pointless and contrary to Scripture).

I'll go with the Bible and believe there is just ONE Eternal God, the Creator.

[CleveTown]

Because it's entirely possible that the fact that everything must have been created is a false human way of thinking?

This is literally the chicken and the egg here. You say there MUST have been a creator of the universe, okay, there MUST have been a creator of God then also
well then you have an eternity of Gods creating Gods....either way there has to be a first. Think about it.

No.

There is just one. And He is Eternal.

[Nick Young]

There's a reason athesim rhymes with dim.
'Athesim' is old Faarsi for atheism. Draz is very based. Don't be a bigot towards your fellow ISH bro.

[Draz]

Slap the fck outta everyone in dis

[TommyGriffin]

God has always been there. He is supernatural.

Science doesn't accept supernatural answers. According to Science, supernatural does not exist.

Therefore the burden of proof(or disproof) lies in the hands of Science.

[Nick Young]

God has always been there. He is supernatural.

Science doesn't accept supernatural answers. According to Science, supernatural does not exist.

Therefore the burden of proof(or disproof) lies in the hands of Science.
Agree wholeheartedly.

Hold this L, science.

[CleveTown]

God has always been there. He is supernatural.

Science doesn't accept supernatural answers. According to Science, supernatural does not exist.

Therefore the burden of proof(or disproof) lies in the hands of Science.
yes this is true.

[DonDadda59]

God ALWAYS existed just like the Bible proclaims.

The Egyptian pyramid texts tell us that the World arose from an infinite sea of chaos known as Nu. Several deities were involved with the process. The Sun God Ra, Atum, and others.

The Greeks, echoing the Egyptians, claimed the World arose from chaos and various primordial deities mating to create different aspect of creation, ie Erebus getting it on with night to create Ether, Gaia giving birth to Uranus, etc.

In the Avesta, Ahura Mazda, the one true God, was the creator of all things (Zoroastrianism being a HUGE influence on the Jews/Christians they encountered during the Baylonian Captivity).


^These schools of thought/religion predate the bible by centuries, meaning the authors were closer to the beginning of time/the World/the Universe.

Finish this sentence: The bible is correct and the others incorrect because...

[CleveTown]

The Egyptian pyramid texts tell us that the World arose from an infinite sea of chaos known as Nu. Several deities were involved with the process. The Sun God Ra, Atum, and others.

The Greeks, echoing the Egyptians, claimed the World arose from chaos and various primordial deities mating to create different aspect of creation, ie Erebus getting it on with night to create Ether, Gaia giving birth to Uranus, etc.

In the Avesta, Ahura Mazda, the one true God, was the creator of all things (Zoroastrianism being a HUGE influence on the Jews/Christians they encountered during the Baylonian Captivity).


^These schools of thought/religion predate the bible by centuries, meaning the authors were closer to the beginning of time/the World/the Universe.

Finish this sentence: The bible is correct and the others incorrect because...
Finish this sentence: The bible is correct and the others incorrect because...THE MEN WHO WALKED WITH JESUS ARE EYE WITNESSES TO HIS POWER AS GOD. They are the key.

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[CleveTown]

No such eyewitness accounts exist, brojangles.

You've been bamboozled.
what an idiot, lol.

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[CleveTown]

No. You are.
I recommend you invest in the book "The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell.

Or Lee Strobel's The Case For (Jesus, God, Faith) series available in book form or DVD, and even can be found on YouTube.

Or any of the Intelligent Design DVDs also available on YouTube.

But if someone does not want to believe, nothing will convince them otherwise. I don't want to beat my head against brick walls trying to win souls. The Holy Spirit's job is to do the "calling" and He will give you the tools you need exactly when you need them at the right time.

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[nathanjizzle]

if there is a god, then who created god? :eek:

let me know your answer.

[CleveTown]

if there is a god, then who created god? :eek:

let me know your answer.
bro your question is dumb. THERE HAS TO BE CAUSE for every and all creation. what or where did that "cause" come from? It came from an intelligent designer: GOD.

[CleveTown]

No dice.
you're a mooslim aren't you? you are used to sand.

http://emergewithus.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/head_in_the_sand-461x307.jpg

[nathanjizzle]

bro your question is dumb. THERE HAS TO BE CAUSE for every and all creation. what or where did that "cause" come from? It came from an intelligent designer: GOD.

:facepalm answer the question. who or what created god? did god pop out of thin air? isnt that the exact ideal you are contradicting, that the universe didnt pop out of nowhere? so god didnt either if there was one.

[DonDadda59]

bro your question is dumb. THERE HAS TO BE CAUSE for every and all creation. what or where did that "cause" come from? It came from an intelligent designer: GOD.

So God had an intelligent designer who created him or God does not exist. Could not possibly exist, per your logic.

Problem solved- the Polytheists were right from the beginning. :bowdown:

[CleveTown]

:facepalm answer the question. who or what created god? did god pop out of thin air? isnt that the exact ideal you are contradicting, that the universe didnt pop out of nowhere? so god didnt either if there was one.
To say God "popped up out of thin air" implies that He was created. Think of a circle. can you put your finger on any point on a circle? No. God always was, is, and is to come. He didnt pop up, He was always there.

[CleveTown]

So God had an intelligent designer who created him or God does not exist. Could not possibly exist, per your logic.

Problem solved- the Polytheists were right from the beginning. :bowdown:
Then how did the "first God" get here (the one who created God number 2 and so on?) What? You have an eternity of past Gods creating newer Gods? Do you hear how stupid that sounds? It would take MORE FAITH to believe that spiel than to believe there's just ONE God and HE is the eternal One.

[nathanjizzle]

He didnt pop up, He was always there.

from your original post "everything needs to be created". well i guess i can argue that "the universe was always there" and god isnt a thing.

[CleveTown]

from your original post "everything needs to be created". well i guess i can argue that "the universe was always there" and god isnt a thing.
so you worship the creation (the universe) rather thanthe creator (God).

Rom 1:

Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen. 26For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. [U]Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

[Draz]

This is something we will NEVER find out. Our chances of finding out if alien life exist is much higher.

[CleveTown]

This is something we will NEVER find out. Our chances of finding out if alien life exist is much higher.
you will find out God exists when you die or if Jesus comes back in your life time

[nathanjizzle]

so you worship the creation (the universe) rather thanthe creator (God).

Rom 1:

Therefore God gave them up in the desires of their hearts to impurity for the dishonoring of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator, who is forever worthy of praise! Amen. 26For this reason God gave them over to dishonorable passions. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.…

Boom.

And look at the natural progression, next you will be (or already are) dishonoring your body with other men. lol, you're so depraved, breh.

you quoted a verse from a book i dont give a **** about and you think i should care? :roll: typical creationist applying your beliefs to someone who is a non believer :roll: you forgot the point that i dont believe your bullshit, so why are you qouting bullshit to me?

[nathanjizzle]

This is something we will NEVER find out. Our chances of finding out if alien life exist is much higher.

if aliens exists, which they do, creationism will become extinct.

[CleveTown]

you quoted a verse from a book i dont give a **** about and you think i should care? :roll: typical creationist applying your beliefs to someone who is a non believer :roll: you forgot the point that i dont believe your bullshit, so why are you qouting bullshit to me?
well then you are condemned right where you stand. You are faced with the facts and you deny them and stick yur head in the sand. That won't bode well with you on Judgment day.

[CleveTown]

if aliens exists, which they do, creationist religion will become extinct.
uh no it won't, it will magnify the Lord even more! His wondrous creation knows no bounds or limits!

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[CleveTown]

Oh, I hear ya.

But again, this is a system based on YOUR logic.

Anything that exists must've been created. If it was not created, it does not exist.

Logic.
and your logic is "nothing is impossible".. anyone can say that, but you have to look at the probability of creation just popping up without a creator, which is

0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000001%

[DonDadda59]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[CleveTown]

Where are you getting your numbers from? http://i.imgur.com/m4Idw.png
reality.

[CleveTown]

the HOLY BIBLE (which is totally reliable given all of the divine prophesies that have came true) says you will be cursed because you preach a different gospel.

BOOM:

Galatians 1:7-9


No Other Gospel

[DonDadda59]

the HOLY BIBLE (which is totally reliable given all of the divine prophesies that have came true) says you will be cursed because you preach a different gospel.

BOOM:

Galatians 1:7-9


No Other Gospel

…7which is not even a gospel. Evidently some people are troubling you and trying to distort the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! 9As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you embraced, let him be under a divine curse!…"

:lebronamazed:

http://hopestreetmag.com/admin/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gif7.gif

http://m0.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/Pacquiao-Ma-gif.gif

[Patrick Chewing]

Then who created God?

RIP religion.

You're assuming that time had a beginning and has an end.


There is no before and after in terms of God or the Universe.

[Megabox!]

if aliens exists, which they do, creationism will become extinct.
Show me dem aliens then boy, if I haven't seen it then it doesn't exist #atheistlogic

[Kblaze8855]

It comes down to "I dont know....so....magic" vs "I dont know.....lets keep looking into it". I dont settle for absurd fairy tale answers because the question is beyond our current ability to answer. The expansion of the universe suggests the big bang happened....so the origin of the universe isnt the issue as much as the origin of the matter that "banged" to begin with. Science cant prove where it came from.....faith doesnt even try. "God did it" is just a lazy approach that sidesteps the obvious question of....who created god. God always existing isnt an answer. Its a copout that requires you to accept the fairy tale to begin with.

You want to choose to believe the answer is in a book you believe in because you were born in the right place, time, and culture to convince you of it...go right ahead. But lets not try to carry that over into science.

Science is only in its infancy. Man only started asking these questions and working on the answers without being persecuted a few hundred years ago. And they didnt have much in the way of tools or the ability to converse with other like minded people.

Asking why we dont know the ultimate questions of life and the origin of matter while people alive today were around before we left our own atmosphere?

You might as well ask why a newborn cant dunk from the Ft line.

The answer was billion of years ago billions of light years away.

We have not set foot on the nearest planet.

These questions may have no answers in 40,000 years.

But we will be closer. Unless of course "God did it" is ever accepted as an answer by the people we need to keep digging for all our sakes.

"God did it" doesnt hurt anyone....long as the people who believe it dont use it as a crutch to stop trying to learn. Believe it all you want. Then apply the scientific method to get something accomplished.

[TommyGriffin]

It comes down to "I dont know....so....magic" vs "I dont know.....lets keep looking into it". I dont settle for absurd fairy tale answers because the question is beyond our current ability to answer. The expansion of the universe suggests the big bang happened....so the origin of the universe isnt the issue as much as the origin of the matter that "banged" to begin with. Science cant prove where it came from.....faith doesnt even try. "God did it" is just a lazy approach that sidesteps the obvious question of....who created god. God always existing isnt an answer. Its a copout that requires you to accept the fairy tale to begin with.

You want to choose to believe the answer is in a book you believe in because you were born in the right place, time, and culture to convince you of it...go right ahead. But lets not try to carry that over into science.

Science is only in its infancy. Man only started asking these questions and working on the answers without being persecuted a few hundred years ago. And they didnt have much in the way of tools or the ability to converse with other like minded people.

Asking why we dont know the ultimate questions of life and the origin of matter while people alive today were around before we left our own atmosphere?

You might as well ask why a newborn cant dunk from the Ft line.

The answer was billion of years ago billions of light years away.

We have not set foot on the nearest planet.

These questions may have no answers in 40,000 years.

But we will be closer. Unless of course "God did it" is ever accepted as an answer by the people we need to keep digging for all our sakes.

"God did it" doesnt hurt anyone....long as the people who believe it dont use it as a crutch to stop trying to learn. Believe it all you want. Then apply the scientific method to get something accomplished.
And wait 40,000 years to possibly get an answer that is acceptable for you and the Scientists?

That belief system sounds a little far fetched in my opinion. As fantastic as the belief system in saying that God has always existed and he is in large part undefinable by terms we know and understand.

[Kblaze8855]

If you think "I dont know....lets keep looking into it" is a belief system as absurd as a magical sky father who always was and always will be being the origin of matter but having none himself....fine. Me...I dont see how its a real system of belief to begin with. I see it as common sense. No answer is currently available....lets give the people working on it time.

I dont expent an answer in my lifetime. Or my childrens. Or their great great great great grand childrens. It took thousands of years for humans to create flying machines. I should expect the origin of matter to be worked out quickly?

In truth I doubt we ever know. Too many things could destroy the world/make it uninhabitable before we get there.

But not knowing is no reason to accept that the universe came to be when a bear shit in the woods...which makes about as much sense to me as Odin/zeus/god/whatever skyfather figure your grandparents believing in made you believe....just poofing everything into being.

Hell Zeus makes more sense. At least they had foresight enough to give him a backstory and parents so his followers didnt have to go with "He came from nowhere...dont ask questions". Granted....I belive there is no origin story for Zeus'...grandfather...but I dont expect there to be a logical explanation to any skyfather story.

Its all nonsense.

Every explanation is nonsense...till we figure it out rationally. And as I said...I dont expect to be around for that.

[CleveTown]

If you think "I dont know....lets keep looking into it" is a belief system as absurd as a magical sky father who always was and always will be being the origin of matter but having none himself....fine. Me...I dont see how its a real system of belief to begin with. I see it as common sense. No answer is currently available....lets give the people working on it time.

I dont expent an answer in my lifetime. Or my childrens. Or their great great great great grand childrens. It took thousands of years for humans to create flying machines. I should expect the origin of matter to be worked out quickly?

In truth I doubt we ever know. Too many things could destroy the world/make it uninhabitable before we get there.

But not knowing is no reason to accept that the universe came to be when a bear shit in the woods...which makes about as much sense to me as Odin/zeus/god/whatever skyfather figure your grandparents believing in made you believe....just poofing everything into being.

Hell Zeus makes more sense. At least they had foresight enough to give him a backstory and parents so his followers didnt have to go with "He came from nowhere...dont ask questions". Granted....I belive there is no origin story for Zeus'...grandfather...but I dont expect there to be a logical explanation to any skyfather story.

Its all nonsense.

Every explanation is nonsense...till we figure it out rationally. And as I said...I dont expect to be around for that.
oh, you'll know right when your lifetime is finished and over with and you die. You will see the magical sky father and He will magically transport your azz to hell

[Kblaze8855]

Yea im sure Ra is all over that. Luckily the kinds people who put in the legwork so you can tell me that bit of wisdom from hundreds or thousands of miles away through an intricate network of devices that took thousands of years of gradual progress to create will still be here working. Science isnt overnight. It isnt there for easy answers. There is no magic. Just thousands of smart people putting their all into small portions of the big questions to keep chipping away at human ignorance for all of our sakes.

Pray to who you want. Science is the reason your house is 72 degrees in the middle of the summer and invisible signals connect us through cans floating in space.

Im sticking where the real progress is made. Even if its slow.

[DCL]

[QUOTE]CleveTown

[CleveTown]

am i the only one who knows who OP is already
you dont know me. ive never posted here before. i just started 2 days ago

[DCL]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[CleveTown]

you are quite retarded if you think anyone believes you.
ask "I'm Still Ballin" who I am. he can tell you

[DCL]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[CleveTown]

don't need to.

you've been here for years.

you made this account for one purpose and that is to troll, and that is because you always get banned like every other week.

jeff is already watching you.
lol let him watch, i dont even know who he is. i have one account and this is it. ive only ever had one account

[TommyGriffin]

Revelation 1:8 -

[Kblaze8855]

It may shock you to learn but....a great many things written down are not true. Especially things written thousands of years ago...edited time and time again....themselves depicting events from thousands(billions) of years before the people writing them existed.

[Micku]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[Micku]

It may shock you to learn but....a great many things written down are not true. Especially things written thousands of years ago...edited time and time again....themselves depicting events from thousands(billions) of years before the people writing them existed.

Totally. There are forgeries, contradictions in the scriptures and historic events, prophecies that didn't happen, and ppl who experience something that is according to their religion. Some could be deem as folklore, some seem like it has some merit.

The whole "god" concept is really subjective to culture. And sometimes to even the individual.

[TommyGriffin]

No one knows.

No one even knows if there was a creator in the first place.

While cell phones and computers are created by intelligent beings, what about photons which is created by the discharge of positively charged hydrogen atoms being fused together so hard to create helium? That doesn't require any god it appears. It just is.

We could go further to sub atomic particles like protons, elections and neutrons. Or even the quarks that make up those subatomic particles.

And we can talk about the higgs boson, which gives these particles mass. With the mass, comes with gravity.

The universe itself could've always existed, just in a very compressed state. However the universe that is constantly expanding, perhaps happened relatively recently. Dark energy is responsible for the universe expanding and we don't know what it is.

Regardless, the the most honest answer that humanity could give is that we don't know. Whatever you feel god created it, the universe always existed, or some other reason...we just don't know. We probably won't know for a very long time, assuming if our race would even live that long and if we are even smart enough to comprehend the answer.

I wouldn't rule out the possibility that a being that is beyond our comprehension created our universe, but there is hardly if any evidence to suggest it.
I'm sorry, but this is a shitpost.

[Micku]

I'm sorry, but this is a shitpost.

!!!

You're a shitpost. :no:

[Micku]

if aliens exists, which they do, creationism will become extinct.

What if those aliens believe in a god/religion that we have on Earth doe?

Granted, it'll be unlikely. The fact that we have different religions in different regions of the world says something about religion. And ppl who experience personal experiences differs from each culture. Like check out the near death experiences from a person who is a Hindu, then the Native American religion, then Christianity.


Assuming if we can even find alien species, it just depends on their intelligence for to give us any indication of there being a god (any god of the Earth's religion) or not. It won't stop the idea of there being a creator tho. Also, through the evolutionary cycle in Earth, it seems intelligence isn't really that important. How many on this planet species are capable of self awareness? We're not even talking about calculus or philosophy or anything.

We're the only species that are capable of doing this. We're probably the only species capable of doing this across lightyears away.

Another thought is that we could be the smartest organisms in our galaxy.

[Micku]

you will find out God exists when you die or if Jesus comes back in your life time

Eh. Well, there's a lot of religions. So, a bunch of things could happen after you die. With Sufism, whatever you believe that's where you'll go (I think that's how it goes). With Hinduism, you'll go to this afterlife thing where you'll either tortured if you are bad or a peaceful experience before you are reborn again. I think Buddhism believe in reincarnation too?

I forgot what happens with some Native American religions.

The Jews could be right and Jesus is not the messiah, and you'll be waiting for nothing. And some Jews don't think there is an afterlife after death and everyone who dies will go there. So, there's no hell, and perhaps there is an heaven.

With Sikhism, there are some debates about what happens after you die. I think one of the ideas is that when you die, nothing happens. You don't really die, and you are not really born. It just that you just change forms. It's not too far from what actually happens to your body. Your body and the chemicals inside your body does just change forms. You'll get eaten, turn into gas or liquid or whatever. Change into state of matter.

I do wonder what happens to your conciseness tho. It appears it's physical since brain damage could affect your personality. Pyschopaths have lack of empathy, and it occurs in the prefrontal cortex cortex of the brain where there is a lack of activity. Things that we feel, like love (a mixture of chemicals such as oxytocin and dopamine and etc) all have physical forms from the periodic table. Like Ocytocin is made out of 43 Carbon, 66 hydrogen. 12 nitrogen, 12 oxygen, and 2 sulfurs.

Is there even such thing as a soul if everything what you are is nothing more than brain matter that could be change if dmg is done or manipulated by chemical reaction? And a lot of what you are is through genetic heredity as well. If all of this stops functioning, then what becomes the brain matter that makes you...you? Does it just stop and you become nothing? You won't know it just like how you aren't be able to comprehend things before you were born. Before you were even a sperm or an egg. All of the chemical reactions would just whiter away.

The conciseness of what we are is the most important to us as human beings. For it to be not important or to lose everything of what we are; it might be the most scary thing to us. But when we die, doesn't that happen anyway? Everything what we are as human through physical matter is dissolved. What happens afterwards depends on whatever you want to believe I guess. If it makes you comfortable that you will be reborn, live forever in heaven, or whatever, then so be it I guess. But your original body, everything that contains of what you are, is pretty much gone. Since energy is never lost or destroyed, the parts that make up your body is just converted into something else. And it will be many parts. You already see that happening with your dead skin cells in your room. Whenever you see little particles in the pint rays of light, that's a mixture of dust and your dead cells. And you are constantly breathing in dead skin cells of yourself and other people.

Anyway, who knows what happens after you die. It would be neat if your consciousness would still be kicking tho. If it doesn't, well...you wouldn't notice. And there are soo many other things that could happen after you die that isn't rooted to Christianity. That's like more than half of the world too that believes in other stuff.

[gigantes]

because likely your'e a f-cking idiot there, mate.

and do you know why??

HERE'S why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZJ-_OTvsqo

[Micku]

And of course a thread about atheists isn't ever without one of the mind-numbingly stupid religionists projecting their insecurities. That insecurity being the fact that they don't like admitting that their default appeal to "not questioning the answers" is in reality a sign of intellectual laziness/inferiority to the "seeking answers to the questions" mindset that atheists are far more likely to ascribe to.

Science is always open to be questioned for its veracity. The same cant be said of religion.

Well, you being an atheist doesn't mean that you take science as your lord and savior, lol.

Science is separate. It's just means the knowledge about the natural world, with this comes with experimentation and observation.

Religion is more of the supernatural.

Science has the luxury of correcting itself.

Unfortunately religion doesn't...for the most part. You can correct the scriptures through correction with errors and forgeries. But it's mostly subjective. Like Catholics and protestants. Martin Luther took out a chuck of the new testament due to the fact he thought the church was corrupt. He only kept the old testament and Jesus stories because he thought it was the word of god. He was going to take out Revelation, but decided against it. Prior to protestant, ppl were taught the catholic or the orthodox way for about 1400-1500 years. And even with that, it contain errors.

And we don't know which stories of the bible are just "stories" or if it actually happened. Like there is no evidence of Moses existing or the events of Exodus happening historically. However, that doesn't mean it "didn't" happen, it just that we have no evidence. Same thing as some events that happened in the New Testament.

With science, it's more critical and ppl are waiting to prove you wrong. Constantly checking crap. Like with Newton. Newton said to think of gravity as a force that makes particles leave their straight paths. With Einstein and his theory, he said it's more to think of gravity as distortion of space and time. Einstein hold up.

And some of Einstein theories are being challenged with string theory I think.

But you don't have to be an atheist to like science and crap. It just the whole concept of "god did it" is just being cut down by the more we know about the physical nature of our universe. If you are religious, I guess you can say science is like learning god's method.

[BoutPractice]

The wisdom of science is that it self-corrects, allowing you to progressively master the dangers of reality.

The wisdom of religion is that it doesn't. You need to believe in something if you want some measure of tranquility as you journey towards death (ideally something science will never be able to challenge, since science is mighty useful and you need it as well). You need a ground to stand on, a foundation for your existence.

And the strongest foundation is to have faith in a transcendent order of some kind.

You can't really get by believing in yourself (and by extension, human beings, humanism, or whatever it is), because you know, deep down, what humans are worth, which is to say, not much.

Familiarity breeds contempt - it's just too easy to call BS on yourself and your fellow man. Even if you want your faith to be humanistic, it needs to be man in a greater context of "isn't the universe just awe-inspiring", not "wow, isn't this vaguely astute species of primate the meaning and measure of all things!"

[Annyong!]

Religious people feel that something must have created everything, so that something must be God, but who created God? :confusedshrug:

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

The wisdom of science is that it self-corrects, allowing you to progressively master the dangers of reality.

The wisdom of religion is that it doesn't.

False. Repentance, readjusting behavior, good deeds, deeper worship, expanding in knowledge of God, uncovering deeper and deeper layers of wisdom from the Holy Scriptures etc are all corrections of the self.

More over, one can not understand the purpose of creation without remembering the Creator.
And one cannot attain sound wisdom or judgment without understanding clearly what is right and wrong and practicing it over and over again which allows for higher degrees of knowledge and thus responsibility
Exemplified by the 124000 prophets of the past being the best people in all regards.




You need to believe in something if you want some measure of tranquility as you journey towards death (ideally something science will never be able to challenge, since science is mighty useful and you need it as well). You need a ground to stand on, a foundation for your existence.

Yes the foundation of human existence is they were created to worship God.
If one skips out on that fundamental duty they begin to become imbalanced and have all sorts of odd anxieties.
Pretty sure the narrative is human beings soul originate in an unseen spirit world and material reality is just a world of tests for the soul to develop and refine and become righteous later to be judged on the Last Day where the temporary world destroys and paves way to a more eternal realm.
. This was understood by many since the beginning.

Some mistakenly see religion as a coping mechanism for death because that's how your individual life has played out when one must keep in mind that
A) Hell is far worse than nonexistence.
B) people wouldn't even desire eternal life in the first place if they weren't created with an aching desire for it and had the means to earn it



And the strongest foundation is to have faith in a transcendent order of some kind.

You can't really get by believing in yourself (and by extension, human beings, humanism, or whatever it is), because you know, deep down, what humans are worth, which is to say, not much.

Materially yes.
Spiritually, no.
humans are the highest creations in that regard
A mother crying over her sons pains or a man fighting to protect his wife are certainly strong emotions that don't allude to the individuals having low value.




Familiarity breeds contempt - it's just too easy to call BS on yourself and your fellow man. Even if you want your faith to be humanistic, it needs to be man in a greater context of "isn't the universe just awe-inspiring", not "wow, isn't this vaguely astute species of primate the meaning and measure of all things!"

EXCELLENT COMMENT.
The universe is a we inspiring. Once you respect and reflect on it you get to see the manifeststation of the beauty glory excellence subtlety etc of God.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

[QUOTE=TommyGriffin]Revelation 1:8 -

[Dresta]

It may shock you to learn but....a great many things written down are not true. Especially things written thousands of years ago...edited time and time again....themselves depicting events from thousands(billions) of years before the people writing them existed.
And what is truth exactly?

The deeper you dig you'll realise that if you don't accept first principles which have been handed down to you in one way or another then there can be no such thing as truth. And that's the truth :lol

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

It comes down to "I dont know....so....magic" vs "I dont know.....lets keep looking into it". I dont settle for absurd fairy tale answers because the question is beyond our current ability to answer.

Although the spirit of your intellectual humility and curiosity is correct as it is obligtaory on all mankind to attain knowledge, your mockery and ignorance is both distasteful, irritating, and ultimately directly leading to your destruction.


And when it is said to them, "Believe as the people have believed," they say, "Should we believe as the foolish have believed?" Unquestionably, it is they who are the foolish, but they know [it] not.

^Really, really ponder on the aforementioned Ayat, KBlaze.

It doesn't matter if a toddler or John Nash answered if 2 + 2 = 4.
Likewise, it's understood that it all began with God; from the truthful account of billions of people; be they Hindu, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Sabian, of differing intellectual levels; be they child or fully fledged old scholars.



The expansion of the universe suggests the big bang happened....so the origin of the universe isnt the issue as much as the origin of the matter that "banged" to begin with. Science cant prove where it came from.....faith doesnt even try.

You've got limited time on this Earth, K. Is it wiser for you to honestly dedicate decades of research to maybe contribute a piece of knowledge undiscovered to the human pool OR to do a good deed within your capability.

As for the origin of matter....


And it is He who created the heavens and earth in truth. And the day He says, "Be," and it is, His word is the truth. And His is the dominion [on] the Day the Horn is blown. [He is] Knower of the unseen and the witnessed; and He is the Wise, the Acquainted.




"God did it" is just a lazy approach that sidesteps the obvious question of....who created god. God always existing isnt an answer. Its a copout that requires you to accept the fairy tale to begin with.

Fairy Tale? Right, so the millions of believers are simply living in la-la land whereas the way you've led your life thus far, K, puts you at a sounder level of understanding of reality.

Good on you for promoting the value of diligence though, something beloved universally in all human beings and especially Christian ethics.



"Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth What (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory)."




You want to choose to believe the answer is in a book you believe in because you were born in the right place, time, and culture to convince you of it...go right ahead. But lets not try to carry that over into science.

You haven't even read, nor understood, let alone applied the book they believe in. Don't kid people otherwise.



Science is only in its infancy. Man only started asking these questions and working on the answers without being persecuted a few hundred years ago. And they didnt have much in the way of tools or the ability to converse with other like minded people.

That is a huge lie and conjecture. You severely underestimate the intellect of our ancestors, but that has been covered earlier this post.



Asking why we dont know the ultimate questions of life and the origin of matter while people alive today were around before we left our own atmosphere?

The One who Created us also granted us guidance from the beginning with the first Prophet, Adam.
It's our own errors, sins and mistakes that cause conflict in our heart. But here you are witnessing a response. A response you can not ignore.

The second you were a sperm cell in daddy's balls, you were formed into an organized incredible work of art; the human being.

When I'm lost, in other terms
“Wilderness wandering” refers to the plight of the Israelites due to their disobedience and unbelief. Nearly 3,500 years ago, the Lord delivered His people from Egyptian bondage as described in Exodus, chapters 1–12. ... I pray for Guidance. And I've received it, hundreds and hundreds of times over. My life, previously having looked chaotic are starting to have interconnections. The same can be witnessed and testified by the millions who say that.


But we will be closer. Unless of course "God did it" is ever accepted as an answer by the people we need to keep digging for all our sakes.

"God did it" doesnt hurt anyone....long as the people who believe it dont use it as a crutch to stop trying to learn. Believe it all you want. Then apply the scientific method to get something accomplished.[/QUOTE]

Red is true. But how the heck did you even get that thought in your head? Ask Dresta about the origins of learning being closely tied with the Church.
Did Satan deceive you into thinking achievement and religion were separate mutually inexclusive things? That's kinda what he does.



As for blue.
That's funny.
You ever start a family?
Or maintained a civilization?
Or built a building?
Or united people together?
Or established a codified moral system?
Or *insert* things the scientific method in and of itself can not do solely.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

If you think "I dont know....lets keep looking into it" is a belief system as absurd as a magical sky father who always was and always will be being the origin of matter but having none himself....fine

Father?
Magical?
Very Blasphemous. Not entirely your fault though, anthromorphizing God (God Forbid) is something humans have repeatedly done and continue to do.

Surah 112:4
Nor is there to Him any equivalent.

http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php?sura=112


I dont expent an answer in my lifetime. Or my childrens. Or their great great great great grand childrens. It took thousands of years for humans to create flying machines. I should expect the origin of matter to be worked out quickly?

It takes a lot of concentrated effort over a long period of time to add knowledge to astronomy, K. And even then that's a chance.
A sounder perspective for you would be to ask instead: What is my next step in this life?



And be not like those who forgot Allah , so He made them forget themselves. Those are the defiantly disobedient.





In truth I doubt we ever know. Too many things could destroy the world/make it uninhabitable before we get there.



And your Lord has decreed that you not worship except Him, and to parents, good treatment. Whether one or both of them reach old age [while] with you, say not to them [so much as], "uff," and do not repel them but speak to them a noble word.

Nice, you're aware of destruction. Now be the change you wish in this world. Start with preservation and salvation.

But not knowing is no reason to accept that the universe came to be when a bear shit in the woods...which makes about as much sense to me as Odin/zeus/god/whatever skyfather figure your grandparents believing in made you believe....just poofing everything into being.


But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.


There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.


Hell Zeus makes more sense. At least they had foresight enough to give him a backstory and parents so his followers didnt have to go with "He came from nowhere...dont ask questions". Granted....I belive there is no origin story for Zeus'...grandfather...but I dont expect there to be a logical explanation to any skyfather story.

No it doesn't. Greek Mythology can not even remotely compare to any Divinely Revealed Scripture Grandparents likely said, don't ask questions because
a) They have, through their lengthy lives contemplated the EXACT same questions and have achieved some level of wisdom much, much, much higher than their cocky, but curious young kblaze.
b) There is likely a better way to spend time (heck, right now I should be saying the same exact thing to myself)......


Do you order righteousness of the people and forget yourselves while you recite the Scripture? Then will you not reason?

Exercise 1 for all of ISH:
Take note of precisely what you criticize everyone for
Re-read it at the end of the night.
Ask yourself is the person I'm accusing the only one guilty of it?
Reflect on your own weaknesses
Ask Allah for forgiveness, be determined to rectify that behavior, rectify others rights
Review any Signs you saw.


Do you think there's any kind of coincidence as to why you meet the particular individuals you do? There's always a common thread that binds all creatures in a setting, you simply aren't cognizant of it.


Its all nonsense.

"It's all nonsense" is a far more apt description of your worldview, Kblaze.
Not the Bible. But having a chaotic worldview of things isn't natural.. it came from error. It takes years of shoving crap down people's throats through ISH to do that and then receiving that crap back. I would know, I'm also guilty of that sin.



New International Version
Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.


Every explanation is nonsense...till we figure it out rationally. And as I said...I dont expect to be around for that.

We will show them Our signs in the horizons and within themselves until it becomes clear to them that it is the truth. But is it not sufficient concerning your Lord that He is, over all things, a Witness?

You can be around long enough to make a conscious decision to take your duties seriously to the Lord who created, nourishes, maintains, orders, and reigns over the entire Universe including each and every human being.

Al-hamdu lillahi rabbil 'alamin

And whoever Allah Guides none can lead astray, and whoever Allah leads astray none can guide.

If there is any Truth in this post it comes from Allah, if there is any evil or falsehood it comes from J$.

Assalamu Alaikum.

[Micku]

Fairy Tale? Right, so the millions of believers are simply living in la-la land whereas the way you've led your life thus far, K, puts you at a sounder level of understanding of reality.


Huh? Well...yeah? It's not like that's not impossible. In fact this did happen and it's happening now. How many religions are there? How many different gods? How many ppl believe in them and became pagans as Christianity and Islam got more popular?

Like you still got Scientology. Some ppl are following this guy claiming he is Jesus and he is the second coming in Flordia. You got neo paganism.

You got other religions like Cao Dai. You still got Zoroastrianism. Shikhs.

You still have African traditions and religions like Nilotic and Bantu that combine their traditions with either Islam or Christianity. Same thing with some Native American religions. Some even have multiple gods.

Then you have Christianity among it's different sects, Islam and it's different sects, and Judaism.

All of them conflict with each other. One of them or all of them are wrong. With the protestant religion, it only came to life with Martin Luther. He cut off several books of the catholic bible and was going to take out Revelation, but decided against it. In Ethiopia, they have the book of Enoch in their bible and contain different wording I think.

Some ppl used to believe, or still believe that the the foreskin of an holy person is made of gold and crystal or something? And if you are true believer, you gain some sort of immunity to poison. And not to mention all of the end of the world crap. Started in the 1st century till now. The first century because Jesus said that the generation will not die until things he said will come to pass like him returning to his kingdom, rumors of war, and all that end of the world stuff. I think....mormons believe there is a person out there who isn't dead yet from 1st century?

And the things that they used to do back in the day. Like ppl were sooo sure that the world was going to end a few times. Like in 1000 AD, Christians waged war on many countries in Europe to save their souls. Their goal was to convert them all into Christian by force. And Christians gave up their posessions to the Church because they thought the end of the world was coming. When Jesus didn't come, they church didn't return their possessions. Anyone who criticize the church was deemed as heretics and got killed.

This happens like every freakin' decade. Millions of ppl believe and want the second coming. So, they do stupid shit. And then when it doesn't happen, they are like wtf. Like a couple of years ago, ppl thought the world was going to end and gave up their possessions again and went to mountains. These are examples of ppl living in la la land with their beliefs.

So, back to the point...yeah. Ppl believe in shit that's not real. You could've/should've said billions of ppl believe in a superpower or a being that we call god. That would've had a little bit more merit, but that still doesn't make it true. Bottom line is that we don't know.

[Micku]

You can be around long enough to make a conscious decision to take your duties seriously to the Lord who created, nourishes, maintains, orders, and reigns over the entire Universe including each and every human being.


Eh. I mean, does he maintain the odor of Sulphur? That's pretty nasty.

Throughout of what we can see, there is no god in the maintenance of the Universe. The four fundamental forces are gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force. Each dynamic is considered to be field. We have the higgs boson which gives particles mass.

There is no god in that. At least so far. In the past, we always hit a wall and say maybe god is there or god has something to do with that. Ptolemy did that, but more with Zeus when he couldn't figure out why the planets move. It was the work of the gods.

Newton did the same thing. Before him, the motion of planets were given to god maintenance. But after Newton basically invented calculus, laws of motions, gravity, two body problem there wasn't a god involved in that. But he couldn't figure out how the solar system stayed that way. So, he said god did it.

God is our answer to our ignorance. Whatever it's true or not, that's what it is. And as history tells us, and time and time again this has proven, god is no where to be seen to maintain our universe. At least not yet. While no one is stopping you to invoke god to that stuff, I would ask you why would you do it if we honestly don't know? Should god just be answer to our own ignorance of the universe or should we stay inquisitive on the wonders of the universe and find out more that could help us survive? The more we find out, the less we know and the more god does not seem to be active in the parts that we thought.

But not to say there is no god, but I don't think a god is maintaining the fragrance of chemical compounds. Or the protons that of elements. Why positive charged go from high to low potential? Maybe dark matter tho since it doesn't interact with the electromagnetic spectrum yet has the gravity that holds shit together. But saying god or whatever, I would be guilty of doing the same thing as ppl did in the past. Just putting in god due to ignorance.

And the universe is a big place (understatement). How many galaxies there are? How many solar systems? How many stars? Did god create all of those stars? So, like god created gravity. To do so, you have to create matter with mass. To get the mass, you have to go through the higgs boson. Then with gravity, you can gather the hydrogen element together into a tight space. Once you are in a condensed space, it'll get hot. All you need is time...Oh! What about time? God can't exist without time because god will just be nothing. Time is a measurement of change. So, if god doesn't change, he is nothing. Unless god is time! Dun dun dun!

And most of all, why the f@#k bedbugs exists? And mosquitoes? Screw them. Blood sucking bastards.

[TommyGriffin]

Eh. I mean, does he maintain the odor of Sulphur? That's pretty nasty.

Throughout of what we can see, there is no god in the maintenance of the Universe. The four fundamental forces are gravity, electromagnetism, strong and weak nuclear force. Each dynamic is considered to be field. We have the higgs boson which gives particles mass.

There is no god in that. At least so far. In the past, we always hit a wall and say maybe god is there or god has something to do with that. Ptolemy did that, but more with Zeus when he couldn't figure out why the planets move. It was the work of the gods.

Newton did the same thing. Before him, the motion of planets were given to god maintenance. But after Newton basically invented calculus, laws of motions, gravity, two body problem there wasn't a god involved in that. But he couldn't figure out how the solar system stayed that way. So, he said god did it.

God is our answer to our ignorance. Whatever it's true or not, that's what it is. And as history tells us, and time and time again this has proven, god is no where to be seen to maintain our universe. At least not yet. While no one is stopping you to invoke god to that stuff, I would ask you why would you do it if we honestly don't know? Should god just be answer to our own ignorance of the universe or should we stay inquisitive on the wonders of the universe and find out more that could help us survive? The more we find out, the less we know and the more god does not seem to be active in the parts that we thought.

But not to say there is no god, but I don't think a god is maintaining the fragrance of chemical compounds. Or the protons that of elements. Why positive charged go from high to low potential? Maybe dark matter tho since it doesn't interact with the electromagnetic spectrum yet has the gravity that holds shit together. But saying god or whatever, I would be guilty of doing the same thing as ppl did in the past. Just putting in god due to ignorance.

And the universe is a big place (understatement). How many galaxies there are? How many solar systems? How many stars? Did god create all of those stars? So, like god created gravity. To do so, you have to create matter with mass. To get the mass, you have to go through the higgs boson. Then with gravity, you can gather the hydrogen element together into a tight space. Once you are in a condensed space, it'll get hot. All you need is time...Oh! What about time? God can't exist without time because god will just be nothing. Time is a measurement of change. So, if god doesn't change, he is nothing. Unless god is time! Dun dun dun!

And most of all, why the f@#k bedbugs exists? And mosquitoes? Screw them. Blood sucking bastards.
Do everyone a favor and just stop it. Thank you.

[Micku]

Do everyone a favor and just stop it. Thank you.

http://www.mememaker.net/static/images/memes/4478580.jpg

[CeltsGarlic]

Atheists do worship a God.

Themselves!!!!

They just don't realize it.

Thats funny :lol

[Nilocon165]

No proof no nothin

[CleveTown]

No proof no nothin
proof is creation, idiot.

[Nilocon165]

[QUOTE=CleveTown

[Nastradamus]

Fwiw, Hawkings proved something could be created from nothing already. With that and the Higgs Boson I just don't get how we have to have conversations like this any more.