Convince me that LeBron is greater than Kareem Abdul Jabbar

[warriorfan]

Convince me

[K Xerxes]

He's not, but he's a lot greater than Kobe and Curry either way

[warriorfan]

He's not, but he's a lot greater than Kobe and Curry either way
This poster is inadvertently propping up both Stephen Curry and Kobe Bryant

[Hey Yo]

OP never saw Kareem play live.

[Im Still Ballin]

Younglings.

[Kawhi]

Convince me Steph didn't choke in the 2016 Finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

Convince me Steph didn't choke in the 2016 Finals.

Just watch the 4th quarter of Game 7

[AirBonner]

The only convincing op needs every day is to not end his pathetic life.

[warriorfan]

Convince me Steph didn't choke in the 2016 Finals.
Sure


Steph Curry 2015 Finals Stats

26/5/6/2/ 59% TS


Perhaps the most critical segment of this series came at the end of the third quarter of Game 4, Cleveland cutting the Warriors lead to three. The Q was rocking. The Finals hung in the balance.

Curry calmly called for the ball, shook a defender and drained a three, pushing Golden State to a six-point lead. In a reversal of roles, a gassed LeBron tried to answer with a three of his own at the buzzer, only to miss badly. When James went to the bench to rest at the start of the fourth quarter, the Warriors seized control of the game and the Finals.

Curry finished with 22 that night. He then dropped 37, including 17 in the fourth quarter, in Game 5. On Tuesday, he dropped a couple of massive threes to help stem a fourth-quarter Cleveland surge, then when double-teamed, hit a wide-open Klay Thompson for another.



Not only did Curry average an MVP-like 26 points, 5 rebounds, 6 assists and 2 steals in 43 minutes per game, but as Kerr told his point guard, sometimes a point guard has to put his own game now in favor of managing the game for his teammates.

That is what Curry relayed when he said in the postgame press conference, "The Finals are not that different from normal NBA games. It's just the spotlight is different, and soar are the expectations. When you have an average game, you find out in the Finals that people were expecting more. But really, that stuff doesn't matter. It's all about winning. That's what I've learned. I just need to impact games, be myself every other night, do other things to help my team win and be OK with that. Manage the game from a point-guard standpoint, find a way to win and that's what we did … At the end of the day, stats really don't matter. It really doesn't matter."

This coming from a man who still had 25 points, 6 rebounds and 8 assists in 43 minutes from a Game 6 that he was supposedly managing the game for others, downplaying his own role.

This coming from a man who still scored 156 points in a six-game Finals with a .585 true shooting percentage—a scoring total and efficiency only topped by three players in NBA Finals history (who all also did it coincidentally in six-game series): 1992 Michael Jordan, who scored 215 points with a .617 TSP; 2011 Dwyane Wade, who scored 159 points with a .614 TSP; 1987 Magic Johnson, who scored 157 points with a .590 TSP.



They did it with a wizard, Stephen Curry, at point guard. Curry nailed three key threes in Golden State’s 105-97 Game 6 victory in Cleveland Tuesday night, because that’s what he does. In the clincher, however, the regular-season MVP’s passing stood out. He patiently let the Cavs double-team him far from the basket – what choice did the Cavs have against a guy who can sink shots from Cincinnati? – and hit cutters down the lane. Or flipped one-handed passes down low. Or skipped the ball cross-court, or into the corner, to open three-point shooters. Curry had eight assists. Golden State finished with 13 three-pointers.


Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3

2015 Steph Curry had one of the most clutch performance in NBA history. The only player to score more 4th Quarter Finals points than Steph Curry was Shaquille Oneal, and he didn't even score one point more than Curry while Curry scored 14% more efficiently than Shaquille


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The major MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg


The MCL is one of four ligaments connecting the femur bone to the tibia at the knee. It helps keep the knee stable as it moves from the outside to the inside.

So the lateral movements are going to put pressure on the ligament.

Athletic trainers refer to what’s called a “valgus” position — that’s when the knee is turned inward toward the center of the body, and the MCL stretches to keep the joint stable.

Most people naturally stand in a slight valgus position, meaning they are putting a little pressure on their MCL without even trying. Playing basketball just adds to that stress, especially during quick lateral movements

“That valgus position occurs pretty often in basketball,” said Meredith Petschauer, an exercise and sports science professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, “because what you have to do in basketball all the time is plant your foot and turn in a different direction.”


The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production

[TommyGriffin]

Damn. Shit just got irrefutable!

[Kawhi]

Sure


Steph Curry 2015 Finals Stats

26/5/6/2/ 59% TS


[/i]



Most 4th Quarter Points during the Finals

1995 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5
2000 Shaquille O'Neal 11.5 (61.1% TS)
2015 Stephen Curry 10.8 (75.1% TS)
1997 Michael Jordan 10.7 (55.1% TS)
1998 Michael Jordan 10.6 (50.6% TS)
2011 Dirk Nowitzki 10.3 (68.0% TS)
1993 Michael Jordan 10.3

2015 Steph Curry had one of the most clutch performance in NBA history. The only player to score more 4th Quarter Finals points than Steph Curry was Shaquille Oneal, and he didn't even score one point more than Curry while Curry scored 14% more efficiently than Shaquille


In the 2016 Finals he was not able to play as well as he did in 2015

What happened in 2016 that didn't happen in 2015? The major MCL injury


http://i.ytimg.com/vi/m_8DziMFB8s/0.jpg



The time table for return of an MCL sprain is 2 to 4 weeks.

(Keep in mind that healing timetable is for every day activity, nothing more strenuous than walking up one flight of stairs, NOT playing professional basketball)

Stephen Curry returned from the injury after only 2 weeks because the Warriors were struggling against Portland without him.

Stephen Curry re-aggravated his knee injury by coming back too early and then playing 40+ minutes of playoff basketball plus overtime in his record setting performance against Portland.


Therefore we can conclude that Curry's MCL injury was the differentiating factor which lowered Curry's production
Not convinced, sorry.

[Kawhi]

Allow me to convince you he did choke:

http://gifyu.com/images/iIh8-fxtfrrc4030742.gif

[FKAri]

Allow me to convince you he did choke:

http://gifyu.com/images/iIh8-fxtfrrc4030742.gif
You can clearly see how his MCL prevented him from completing that pass

[greatest-ever]

He isn't greater yet, but that's because of longevity. Give Lebron 2 more seasons and it becomes a legitimate debate, give him 5 more and it'l be Lebron by a solid margin. He's the better player, i don't think Kareem was ever as good as Lebron was in 09, 10, 12 or 13. Many will probably disagree with that here but i don't really care.

[TheWinningFam]

Let me convince u that curry choked


Warriors fans live in constant fear that NBA superstar Stephen Curry will get injured

Almost half his NBA career Curry has been battling some type of injury

And when it happened in the 2016 NBA Playoffs, no one was suprised

As some may not know, Stephen had seven ankle sprains and 2 surgiers in a 16-month period

Because of his historical amount of ankle sprains/surgeries, he has unusually slow lateral quickness and struggles with stopping on a dime

Lets recap why he got himself injured:

- Curry gambled on Ariza when he tried a full court press and was blown right by instantly - Montiejunas trips and falls - Curry sees this in the corner of his eye

https://s31.postimg.org/vsgepifrv/curry1_5.png

- Curry tried forcing Ariza to go right - Ariza goes up for the pump - Curry struggles to stop and at the same time slips on sweat because he lacked awareness where he was on the court

https://s31.postimg.org/gxrtbc66z/curry3.png



The injury effected his game none whatsoever

His next game and following series versus the Houston Rockets, Steph perfomed at an elite level

https://s31.postimg.org/981kjrh3v/curry3_5.png

The following 7 game series versus the Oklahoma City Thunder he again performed at a spectacular level

https://s31.postimg.org/exht42na3/curry4.png

And as we all know, in the Finals, Curry just couldn't live up to the two previous series when he faced the Cleveland Cavaliers

https://s31.postimg.org/z656psml7/curry5.png

Infact, by looking at his past 3 Playoffs, 2016 Curry was right on par in nearly every category with his 2014 and 2013 Playoffs

https://s32.postimg.org/bsdxd1t5h/curry8.png


In conclusion we see that
1. Steph is injury prone has a long history of sprains with multiple surgeries
2. Steph's fragile ankles wouldn't allow him to stop on a dime/keep up with Ariza
3. Steph had bad court awareness after seeing Montie fall and drove right through a wet spot, tweaking his knee
4. Multiple sources say it was a grade 1 MCL, 2 weeks fully heal, "he was lucky"
5. Steph came back from injury and played 9 games averaging 31, 8, 7, 48%fg before playing Cleveland where he struggled at 22, 5, 4, 40%fg
6. Steph is a sub par Playoff and Finals performer compared to his regular season
7. GSW front office signed Durant as insurance, specifically banking on Steph's next upcoming injury

[k0kakw0rld]

Convince me
He is not yet don't kid yourself we talking about the all time leading scorer in the history of the league. A 6x MVP award winner a 6x Champion What a career :bowdown:

[BarberSchool]

Kareem is not only a better player than Lebron, but an immeasurably greater person.

[warriorfan]

Kareem is not only a better player than Lebron, but an immeasurably greater person.
Knicksman, can we have a comment expounding on this statement?

[Dray n Klay]

Since OP loves PER


Career PER

LeBron: 27.65

Kareem: 24.58






Peak PER:

LeBron: 31.67

Kareem: 29.94





So not only was LeBron the more productive player in his peak, but he was also more productive than Kareem over the course of his career.




Also




After first 13 seasons.



LeBron: 3 rings 3 FMVPs 4 MVPs


Kareem: 3 rings 1 FMVP 5 MVPs




LeBrons 2 more FMVPS >>> Kareems 1 more MVP




So LeBron is more accomplished as well


























In conclusion, better stats, more productive, PLUS better career so far means LeBron >>>>> Kareem easily










This debate isnt even close

[BarberSchool]

Knicksman, can we have a comment expounding on this statement?I'm not Knicksman, nor do I remember him as a poster. And no, you may not. It's self evident and anyone believing to the contrary needs to be sterilized.

[warriorfan]

For maximum accuracy PER should be used to compare players from the same individual season, not multi-year, cross-era comparisons



Final Verdict: Not convinced

[TheWinningFam]

For maximum accuracy PER should be used to compare players from the same individual season, not multi-year, cross-era comparisons



Final Verdict: Not convinced

Let this sink in.


Warriors fans live in constant fear that NBA superstar Stephen Curry will get injured

Almost half his NBA career Curry has been battling some type of injury

And when it happened in the 2016 NBA Playoffs, no one was suprised

As some may not know, Stephen had seven ankle sprains and 2 surgiers in a 16-month period

Because of his historical amount of ankle sprains/surgeries, he has unusually slow lateral quickness and struggles with stopping on a dime

Lets recap why he got himself injured:

- Curry gambled on Ariza when he tried a full court press and was blown right by instantly - Montiejunas trips and falls - Curry sees this in the corner of his eye

https://s31.postimg.org/vsgepifrv/curry1_5.png

- Curry tried forcing Ariza to go right - Ariza goes up for the pump - Curry struggles to stop and at the same time slips on sweat because he lacked awareness where he was on the court

https://s31.postimg.org/gxrtbc66z/curry3.png



The injury effected his game none whatsoever

His next game and following series versus the Houston Rockets, Steph perfomed at an elite level

https://s31.postimg.org/981kjrh3v/curry3_5.png

The following 7 game series versus the Oklahoma City Thunder he again performed at a spectacular level

https://s31.postimg.org/exht42na3/curry4.png

And as we all know, in the Finals, Curry just couldn't live up to the two previous series when he faced the Cleveland Cavaliers

https://s31.postimg.org/z656psml7/curry5.png

Infact, by looking at his past 3 Playoffs, 2016 Curry was right on par in nearly every category with his 2014 and 2013 Playoffs

https://s32.postimg.org/bsdxd1t5h/curry8.png


In conclusion we see that
1. Steph is injury prone has a long history of sprains with multiple surgeries
2. Steph's fragile ankles wouldn't allow him to stop on a dime/keep up with Ariza
3. Steph had bad court awareness after seeing Montie fall and drove right through a wet spot, tweaking his knee
4. Multiple sources say it was a grade 1 MCL, 2 weeks fully heal, "he was lucky"
5. Steph came back from injury and played 9 games averaging 31, 8, 7, 48%fg before playing Cleveland where he struggled at 22, 5, 4, 40%fg
6. Steph is a sub par Playoff and Finals performer compared to his regular season
7. GSW front office signed Durant as insurance, specifically banking on Steph's next upcoming injury

[warriorfan]

I'm not Knicksman, nor do I remember him as a poster. And no, you may not. It's self evident and anyone believing to the contrary needs to be sterilized.
My apologies

I was not accusing you of being knicksman, I agree with your sentiments and would like knicksman to give his two cents on the matter as well

Sincerely
warriorfan

[BarberSchool]

My apologies

I was not accusing you of being knicksman, I agree with your sentiments and would like knicksman to give his two cents on the matter as well

Sincerely
warriorfan
Did knicksman ever say kareem was goat ? Cause i wont go that far. Among NBA players, goat person yes, but not goat player.

[warriorfan]

Did knicksman ever say kareem was goat ? Cause i wont go that far. Among NBA players, goat person yes, but not goat player.
I don't believe so, but he should have a few good words on the topic though

you are just going to have to trust me on this one

[Mr Feeny]

He is not yet don't kid yourself we talking about the all time leading scorer in the history of the league. A 6x MVP award winner a 6x Champion What a career :bowdown:

That may be true but lebron already has more titles as lead dog than kareem did and only trails him in the MVP count by 2 while having a significant career edge statistically.

[BlkMambaGOAT]

Liquid water is more likely to not be wet than for Lebron to be greater than Kareem.

[Mr Feeny]

Liquid water is more likely to not be wet than for Lebron to be greater than Kareem.

He is. Sorry to disappoint.

[warriorfan]

Final Verdict: Not convinced

[AirBonner]

Final Verdict: Not convinced
Of course you are not convinced. You ignore stats.

[Kenomax]

LeBron is better, but no greater. Not yet

[aj1987]

He's not.

Kareem was averaging 35/17/5/2/5 on 57% and he was doing this on 60+ win teams. DPOY defense and GOAT level scoring/rebounding.

[GrapeApe]

Lebron is obviously not greater than Kareem. I don't think anyone would even argue that he is. Kareem has arguably the greatest overall basketball career in history.

[Quickening]

Kareem is the GOAT, no other player had his all round defensive and offensive impact.

[Mr Feeny]

Lebron is obviously not greater than Kareem. I don't think anyone would even argue that he is. Kareem has arguably the greatest overall basketball career in history.

And yet has 2 titles as lead dog, less than lebron did with 7 less seasons, and a third of MJ'S totals.
Winning a title averaging 14 ppg or winning a title and getting 4 and 7 points in game 7's is not comparable to leading your team to a title while dominating.

It's fine to take career in terms of career accomplishments so far but I think within 2 years, the majority are going to have lebron clearly ahead.

[ShawkFactory]

Lebron is obviously not greater than Kareem. I don't think anyone would even argue that he is. Kareem has arguably the greatest overall basketball career in history.
Not only that but at his peak there were only a couple people ever that were more dominant.

[stalkerforlife]

OP, I love you...but WTF is this thread?

Bran isn't even top 10, much less a comparison to Kareem.

Really a slap in the face to Kareem.

[aj1987]

Not only that but at his peak there were only a couple people ever that were more dominant.
Just about when I was convinced that there isn't a single objective LeBron fan.

[Dro]

Lebron is obviously not greater than Kareem. I don't think anyone would even argue that he is. Kareem has arguably the greatest overall basketball career in history.
This...

[warriorfan]

Of course you are not convinced. You ignore stats.
For maximum accuracy PER should be used to compare players from the same individual season, not multi-year, cross-era comparisons

[K Xerxes]

For maximum accuracy PER should be used to compare players from the same individual season, not multi-year, cross-era comparisons

David Lee was better than Kobe Bryant in 2010, right?

[jlip]

Lebron is obviously not greater than Kareem. I don't think anyone would even argue that he is. Kareem has arguably the greatest overall basketball career in history.


This

[ShawkFactory]

David Lee was better than Kobe Bryant in 2010, right?
Lebron was the best player in the league 6 times.

Kobe zero.

How could Kobe possibly be above Lebron all time? Especially since those 6 years coincided with their time playing together in the league.

6 to 0.