Is winning a championship with 0 All-star and 0 All-nba teammates the hardest accom..

[Dray n Klay]

....accomplishment in the history of basketball?






Now when you combine that with the fact that LeBron beat the 73 win Warriors (dubbed the greatest team in the history of professional sports) without another all-nba player or all-star on his roster, that tells you that he just had the GOAT accomplishment



0 all-stars + 0 all-nba players + No HCA + 73 win dynasty + down 3-1 = GOAT


:bowdown:


:hammertime: :hammertime:

[k0kakw0rld]

http://img4.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_765251Hausziege04.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=765251Hausziege04.jpg)

[TheWinningFam]

No doubt Legoat

[LostCause]

The claim is technically valid since that was the case this year, however it's disingenuous as Irving only played in 53 games this year and definitely isn't on the decline, so for all intents and purposes he's still in All-Star form

Love is a different matter though given his numbers fell off, though that's more by design than by decline

LeBrons GOAT candidacy can stand on its own merits without being disingenuous about minor details. Doing so kind of cheapens the whole thing

[GrapeApe]

If a player steps up and plays like an all-star in the playoffs, it's irrelevant if they were or were not an all-star in the regular season. Pippen played like an all-star in the playoffs in '91. Terry played like an all-star in '11. Irving played like an all-star this year. Hakeem in '94 is probably the only player to win a title without an all-star caliber performer in the playoffs, but his teammates obviously stepped up collectively.

To expound on what the poster above said, it's always disigenuous to say a player won a title without any other all-stars. Although it may be factually correct, the implication is that nobody else played well or that there were no other good players on the team. No team in history has won a title without strong contributions from multiple players. This is true in any sport, especially at the highest level. Nobody does it alone.

[Sarcastic]

Not as hard as being challenged to a shooting contest at a kid's day camp, with free shoes on the line for everyone, and not missing once. :bowdown:

[AirBonner]

Don't forgot he did that with a level 3 broken wrist :eek:

[raprap]

Don't forgot he did that with a level 3 broken wrist :eek:
Don't forget the damage caused by Green with his blatant right hook to the Kings jewels.

[fourkicks44]

....accomplishment in the history of basketball?






Now when you combine that with the fact that LeBron beat the 73 win Warriors (dubbed the greatest team in the history of professional sports) without another all-nba player or all-star on his roster, that tells you that he just had the GOAT accomplishment



0 all-stars + 0 all-nba players + No HCA + 73 win dynasty + down 3-1 = GOAT


:bowdown:


:hammertime: :hammertime:

Not as hard as getting you to post on one account.

[scuzzy]

Don't forgot he did that with a level 3 broken wrist
]Lebron James fractured his wrist during game 7 of the 2016 NBA Finals
"Most distal radius fractures take 4-6 weeks to heal."

The play happened as Lebron went up for the series winning dunk

He was contested by Warriors FMVP Draymond Green

https://s31.postimg.org/czuunblej/lebron3.png

The 2 collided with James falling 10 feet in the air helpless and bracing himself with only his right hand

https://s31.postimg.org/w2e8a8wez/lebron1.png

Cavs players, bench and staff all came over because they knew instantly what they witnessed was career ending in most cases

https://s31.postimg.org/ppz30etcr/lebron2.png
https://s31.postimg.org/josnvd6dn/lebron4.pnghttps://s31.postimg.org/gj8255nrf/lebron5.png


Astonishingly he was able to briefly recover and play on the rest of the game. With 12 sec left on a 1 possession game, he drew a foul and was sent to the line. Shooting on that same right wrist that was fractured, remarkably he sunk the game winning shot.

https://s31.postimg.org/j22hdt9uj/lebron55.png

Despite playing a 73-9 team at full strength (minus their Center who avg 12 min with net negative -14).

Injured James was still able to execute a triple double on the opponents home floor

27 points, 11 rebounds, 11 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks

[LostCause]

Injured James was still able to execute a triple double on the opponents home floor

If the injury occurred with 12 seconds left in the fourth quarter, it would mean injured Lebron scored just 1 point. Everything else he did before the injury. So "injured James was still able" is incorrect, he had the triple-double before he was injured. Is it bad or not as impressive to state the truth and just say "Injured James was able to make 1 of 2 Free Throws to clinch the game on the opponents home floor"

Though speaking of the injury, was there a diagnosis that labeled it a distal radius fracture? While it's definitely possible to get it from that particular fall, doesn't actually mean he did

[bobopenguin]

dont forget, he played with recessed hairline too. :applause:

[kamil]

"broken" wrist... LOL, LeBron* fans are ****ing delusional.

[Dray n Klay]

"broken" wrist... LOL, LeBron* fans are ****ing delusional.
Haha! I guess that rogaine never arrived did it?

[rmt]

Duncan won 4 rings without an All-NBA team mate [2 rings without an All-NBA and All-Star team mate (99, 03)].

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Hakeem in '94 is probably the only player to win a title without an all-star caliber performer in the playoffs

:biggums:

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Or how about Duncan's cast in '03? Parker 15/2/5/1 on 54% TS, Jackson 12/3/2/1 on 52% TS, Rose 10/6/1 on 54% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that. So again, Duncan has a few decent helpers, but the depth is non-existent and there has been MUCH better 2nd and 3rd options clearly throughout NBA's long history.

Also, Duncan has won 4 NBA titles without another All-NBA teammate, which is the most by far of any ATG or GOAT candidate. He also won 2 NBA titles without another All-Star teammate. So 4 without another All-NBA and 2 without another All-Star. Just goes to show that Duncan won with less help of any ATG to ever play the game.

GOAT gonna GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Dray n Klay]

Yea, nice one Duncan vampires



Except it doesn't count since Duncan was only the best finals performer in 2 out of his 5 championships. (1999, 2003)




That means you can't use the "no all NBA players and no all star teammates arguments".




In 3/5 of Duncans championships, he wasn't the best finals performer, that tells us that Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates.





By saying that Duncan didn't have another All NBA or All Star on his roster, you're basically saying that Duncan <<< a non-all star since Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates







In conclusion: Saying Player X won with 0 all stars and 0 all NBA players is only valid if that player was the clear cut best performer on the team, or else you're indirectly saying Player X is worse that a non-all star player






Therefore Duncan doesn't count

[Sarcastic]

:biggums:

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Or how about Duncan's cast in '03? Parker 15/2/5/1 on 54% TS, Jackson 12/3/2/1 on 52% TS, Rose 10/6/1 on 54% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that. So again, Duncan has a few decent helpers, but the depth is non-existent and there has been MUCH better 2nd and 3rd options clearly throughout NBA's long history.

Also, Duncan has won 4 NBA titles without another All-NBA teammate, which is the most by far of any ATG or GOAT candidate. He also won 2 NBA titles without another All-Star teammate. So 4 without another All-NBA and 2 without another All-Star. Just goes to show that Duncan won with less help of any ATG to ever play the game.

GOAT gonna GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Robinson/Elliott are like 100x better than Thorpe/Maxwell :lol

This is a case of stats not telling the whole story.

[GrapeApe]

:biggums:

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.

Or how about Duncan's cast in '03? Parker 15/2/5/1 on 54% TS, Jackson 12/3/2/1 on 52% TS, Rose 10/6/1 on 54% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that. So again, Duncan has a few decent helpers, but the depth is non-existent and there has been MUCH better 2nd and 3rd options clearly throughout NBA's long history.

Also, Duncan has won 4 NBA titles without another All-NBA teammate, which is the most by far of any ATG or GOAT candidate. He also won 2 NBA titles without another All-Star teammate. So 4 without another All-NBA and 2 without another All-Star. Just goes to show that Duncan won with less help of any ATG to ever play the game.

GOAT gonna GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

In regards to '94 Hakeem, did you even read what I said? You basically proved my point. None of Hakeem's teammates put up all-star numbers individually, but collectively they were a solid supporting cast.

I did forget about '03 Duncan though. He obviously didn't do it alone, but that was an all-time great championship run, easily Duncan's most impressive. I wouldn't put '99, '05, or '07 in that same category. Those titles were won with HOF teammates who were playing at a high level.

[K.dot ShowTime]

Winning a championship with 1 Adam Silver is the worst accomplishment. But what else you can expect from LeCollude.

[DCL]

the all star game is kinda bullshit.

there are always plenty of non-all star players every year who are better than the actual participants.

if you need the all-star game to tell you who has game or who doesn't, you don't know basketball, you don't know what to watch, and you have no frigging idea what's going on.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

In regards to '94 Hakeem, did you even read what I said? You basically proved my point. None of Hakeem's teammates put up all-star numbers individually, but collectively they were a solid supporting cast.

I did forget about '03 Duncan though. He obviously didn't do it alone, but that was an all-time great championship run, easily Duncan's most impressive. I wouldn't put '99, '05, or '07 in that same category. Those titles were won with HOF teammates who were playing at a high level.

HOF teammates playing at high level? Robinson's 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS vs. Thorpe's 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS is pretty close and the rest of their casts are not close at all with Hakeem having a huge edge there. If anything, the '99 ring is even more impressive than the '03 one given just how little help he had. I mean, Hakeem had 6 teammates putting up 9+ PPG on superior efficiency vs. Duncan's having 4. C'mon now. I couldn't even do 10+ PPG because Duncan's supporting cast was so bad, I had to roll with 9+ PPG.

:oldlol:

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Robinson/Elliott are like 100x better than Thorpe/Maxwell :lol

This is a case of stats not telling the whole story.

Did you even read the rest? Hakeem had 6 teammates putting up 9+ PPG on superior efficiency while Duncan only had 4. I had to roll with 9+ PPG instead of 10 because Duncan had such a shitty supporting cast.

:lol

[Spurs5Rings2014]

[I]Except it doesn't count since Duncan was only the best finals performer in 2 out of his 5 championships. (1999, 2003)


That means you can't use the "no all NBA players and no all star teammates arguments".




In 3/5 of Duncans championships, he wasn't the best finals performer, that tells us that [U]Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates.

Duncan was clearly the best player on 4 of his championships and very arguably the best player on all 5. He was also the best player on the 2013 team which came within 1 game of winning it all and would have if it weren't for missed FT's, rebounds, Pop benching the all time leading play off defensive rebounder with 28 seconds left.

Duncan doesn't statpad in the finals like someone else, but even still, he was clearly the best player on at least 3 of the finals and arguably on 4-5 (PPG isn't everything, especially against garbage guards).

Either way, 5 > 3 and 5/6 > 3/7. GOAT gonna GOAT. Deal with it.

:pimp:

[rmt]

Yea, nice one Duncan vampires

Except it doesn't count since Duncan was only the best finals performer in 2 out of his 5 championships. (1999, 2003)

That means you can't use the "no all NBA players and no all star teammates arguments".

In 3/5 of Duncans championships, he wasn't the best finals performer, that tells us that Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates.

By saying that Duncan didn't have another All NBA or All Star on his roster, you're basically saying that Duncan <<< a non-all star since Duncan was outplayed by his own teammates

In conclusion: Saying Player X won with 0 all stars and 0 all NBA players is only valid if that player was the clear cut best performer on the team, or else you're indirectly saying Player X is worse that a non-all star player

Therefore Duncan doesn't count

All-NBA and All-Star are based on the regular season - not on Finals MVP. Here are the stats/accolades that clearly prove that Duncan was the best player in 2005 and 2007 - both regular seasons and playoffs.


2004-05 Regular Season
Duncan 20.3 pts 11.1 rebs 2.7 asst 2.6 blk 49.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Manu 16 pts 4.4 rebs 3.9 asst 1.6 stl 47.1 FG% - All-Star

2005 Playoffs
Duncan 23.6 pts 12.4 rebs 2.7 asst 2.3 blk 46.4 FG%
Manu 20.8 pts 5.8 rebs 4.2 asst 1.2 stl 50.7 FG%


2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts 10.6 rebs 3.4 asst 2.4 blk 54.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Parker 18.6 pts 5.5 asst 1.1 stl 52 FG% - All-Star

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts 11.5 rebs 3.3 asst 3.1 blk 52.1 FG%
Parker 20.8 pts 5.8 asst 1.1 stl 48 FG%

[Spurs5Rings2014]

All-NBA and All-Star are based on the regular season - not on Finals MVP. Here are the stats/accolades that clearly prove that Duncan was the best player in 2005 and 2007 - both regular seasons and playoffs.


2004-05 Regular Season
Duncan 20.3 pts 11.1 rebs 2.7 asst 2.6 blk 49.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Manu 16 pts 4.4 rebs 3.9 asst 1.6 stl 47.1 FG% - All-Star

2005 Playoffs
Duncan 23.6 pts 12.4 rebs 2.7 asst 2.3 blk 46.4 FG%
Manu 20.8 pts 5.8 rebs 4.2 asst 1.2 stl 50.7 FG%


2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts 10.6 rebs 3.4 asst 2.4 blk 54.6 FG% - 1st All-NBA, 1st All-Defensive, All-Star
Parker 18.6 pts 5.5 asst 1.1 stl 52 FG% - All-Star

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts 11.5 rebs 3.3 asst 3.1 blk 52.1 FG%
Parker 20.8 pts 5.8 asst 1.1 stl 48 FG%

:bowdown:

[Dray n Klay]

rmt is too shook to post finals stats :roll: :roll:



Reminds me of Kobe stans saying Kobe was the MVP of the REAL Finals (WCF)



Nice way of trying to spin Duncan as the best player, but no ones buying it :oldlol:







2/5 1st option rings confirmed

[rmt]

rmt is too shook to post finals stats :roll: :roll:

Reminds me of Kobe stans saying Kobe was the MVP of the REAL Finals (WCF)

Nice way of trying to spin Duncan as the best player, but no ones buying it :oldlol:

2/5 1st option rings confirmed

You are the one who is cherry picking 11 out of 207 games. The thread title says All-Star and All-NBA - not FMVP - in which case he has 3 FMVPs. And the REAL finals in 2007 were against the Suns (not CLE which was a given) where Duncan averaged:

26.8 pts 13.7 rebs 1.2 asst 4.2 blks 57.3 FG%

[Psileas]

In '94, Hakeem had Thorpe putting up 14/10/2/1 on on 59% TS and Maxwell putting up 13/3/5/2 on 48% TS. Not to mention Horry putting up 10/5/3/1/1 on 52% TS, Smith putting up 11/2/4/1 on 58% TS, Jent putting up 10/5/2 on 57% and Elie with 9/2/3 on 57% TS.

Otoh, Duncan in '99 had Robinson putting up 16/10/2/1/2 on 56% TS and Elliot putting up 11/4/2 on 49% TS. Then Avery putting up 9.7/2/7/1 on 48% TS and Elie putting up 9.7/3/2/1 on 59% TS. No one else scored even 9 PPG after that, with the next person scoring 6 PPG. So while Duncan may have been a little better help than Hakeem's second option, the rest of Duncan's help was not even close.


Since all your points for supporting casts are stats, how about taking it an obvious step further and compare Hakeem's and Duncan's to see who did the most himself?

Duncan: 23.2 ppg, 11.5 rpg, 2.8 apg, 2.6 bpg, 51.1% FG
Hakeem: 28.9 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 4.3 apg, 1.7 spg, 4.0 bpg, 51.9% FG

[I<3NBA]

Kyrie may have not been an all-star, but that's only because he missed a lot of games. otherwise, he would be in for sure.

[soots]

holy chit lol.

he gonna get a gold medal for destroying Kevin Love's career and Kyrie fricken Irving with Team USA selection, 2x40pt games and the finals winner, RA also won the heat series. rofl, both MJ and Kobe would want the ball even if they get quintuple teamed. delusional

[KirbyPls]

holy chit lol.

he gonna get a gold medal for destroying Kevin Love's career and Kyrie fricken Irving with Team USA selection, 2x40pt games and the finals winner, RA also won the heat series. rofl, both MJ and Kobe would want the ball even if they get quintuple teamed. delusional

That was Lebron with two 40-point Finals games, Kobetard.

[houston]

the all star game is kinda bullshit.

there are always plenty of non-all star players every year who are better than the actual participants.

if you need the all-star game to tell you who has game or who doesn't, you don't know basketball, you don't know what to watch, and you have no frigging idea what's going on.



you on point that why no team never won a title without 2 all star quality players.

[FireDavidKahn]

Yep.

That is before you even take into account he beat the best regular season team in history.

[rmt]

you on point that why no team never won a title without 2 all star quality players.

Spurs 03 did not have 2 all-star quality players.

[feyki]

27 Ppg .

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Lol this thread is too much.

[houston]

Spurs 03 did not have 2 all-star quality players.


David Robinson still provided something on that team. Duncan don't win his first 2 rings without him.