Was Scottie Pippen ... Overrated?

[CTbasketball92]

His career averages of 16.1 ppg 6 rebounds and 5 assists on 47% are solid, but honestly not much else. I was not even born when Pippen was coming into his own, but it just feels like he sort of took advantage of a time when there weren't that many of the tall, lengthy and versatile athletes there are today. His one season without MJ on the bulls was definitely MVP worthy, but that's like, one out of how many years? Give Pipp' credit for being an awesome defender and maybe sort of being the first of his kind, but I just don't see how ESPN can rank him in the top 25 players ever. Top 50? Sure. But not much better than that.

[KiiiiNG]

How could the best perimeter defender of all time, who could give you 25+ points a game with elite play-making skills and high basketball IQ be overrated?

[Dray n Klay]

How could the best perimeter defender of all time, who could give you 25+ points a game with elite play-making skills and high basketball IQ be overrated?


Exactly


Pippen was basically Jordan without the gambling issues

[scuzzy]

Exactly


Pippen was basically Jordan without the gambling issues

Exactly


Or, Jordan was basically the Pippen without tripping over ones own penile issues

[Mr Feeny]

His career averages of 16.1 ppg 6 rebounds and 5 assists on 47% are solid, but honestly not much else. I was not even born when Pippen was coming into his own, but it just feels like he sort of took advantage of a time when there weren't that many of the tall, lengthy and versatile athletes there are today. His one season without MJ on the bulls was definitely MVP worthy, but that's like, one out of how many years? Give Pipp' credit for being an awesome defender and maybe sort of being the first of his kind, but I just don't see how ESPN can rank him in the top 25 players ever. Top 50? Sure. But not much better than that.

Yeah but tbf they were playing in the 90s and the game featured lower scoring there and a lot of handchecking. While he wasn't a great player offensively, he was terrific defensively at times. That's where he made his legacy - on defense. He wasn't a perfect player and probably not a franchise player but if he could lock up the opposition's best player, then that made him instantly valuable.

[LostCause]

Pippen and Jordan are/were nothing alike. However OP is far, far off if you minimize Pippens ability that way.

That said, in intelligent discussions Pippen is never overrated. That only becomes a thing when people elevate him beyond what was reality in an attempt to downgrade Jordan, but as said, in intelligent discussions he's regarded just where he should be. He's definitely HOF worthy and one of the best to ever lace them up. Especially on the defensive end

[G-train]

His career averages of 16.1 ppg 6 rebounds and 5 assists on 47% are solid, but honestly not much else.

He played til he was 38, adn was injured quite a but after age 32.

In his prime, between 25-32, he was a 20/6/6 offensive/defensive beast, pressure performer, super aggressive, alpha baller. He was a dominant player.

[Smoke117]

1-9

[Sarcastic]

Yes, he is extremely overrated. He has 4 seasons of averaging 20 or more in a 17 year career. He was a defensive specialist with slightly above average scoring. As soon as he left the Bulls, he consistently underachieved with the Barkley + Olajuwon, and then the TrailBlazers, who had a stacked team. When you look back at the Rockets, you would think they would've been a superteam. But he was the one that underperformed the most of the big 3. The Blazers were a WCF team before he joined, and he couldn't take them any further.

He was Oakley's little bitch when he first got to Chicago too

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Charles%20Oakley/charlesoakleyandscottiepipp.gif

[hateraid]

Outside of being a top 10 player of all time, when you play with a top 10 player of all time for a long stretch you will automatically be diminished and carry the reputation of being carried by one of the greatest players of all time. Although Pippen was lucky to have a chance in his career to prove he could carry or take over the load when you subtract that player. Most second bananas would fold or fail. Pippen excelled.

[Smoke117]

Yes, he is extremely overrated. He has 4 seasons of averaging 20 or more in a 17 year career. He was a defensive specialist with slightly above average scoring. As soon as he left the Bulls, he consistently underachieved with the Barkley + Olajuwon, and then the TrailBlazers, who had a stacked team. When you look back at the Rockets, you would think they would've been a superteam. But he was the one that underperformed the most of the big 3. The Blazers were a WCF team before he joined, and he couldn't take them any further.

He was Oakley's little bitch when he first got to Chicago too



You stupid moron. :facepalm Scottie killed your team.

[plowking]

I think he is slightly overrated in terms of his own individual ability, though underrated as a second option. People simply assume because Wade is a better player, he was a better second option. Same goes with maybe a Kobe, or what not. You could say the same for McHale. All better players, but not the 2nd option, or fit that Scottie is. He is the perfect 2nd man. I wouldn't take him over Penny Hardaway for example, during their days, since Penny for me was a better individual talent. But I'd take him as the second guy on my team.

To put into perspective, from the Bulls first title, all the way until their last, Pippen put up 20/7/5 on 48% shooting, with the best perimeter defensive in the league. In the playoffs during that time, he put up 19/8/6 on 44% shooting, again with the best perimeter defense in the league.
Compare that to Wade for example, who in only 4 years the Heat went to the finals put up 22/5/5 on 51% shooting. At the same time, in the playoffs during this time, he put up 20/5/4 on 47% shooting.

Difference is, with Pippen you have a guy that can give your best player a rest on defense. That was his biggest draw. That was the biggest weapon he brought to your team. Having your best player completely fresh, while at the same time, putting up all time great 2nd option numbers.

[Bawkish]

when playing with MJ, he's the best 2nd option & definitely maximizes his full potential. Sadly, he sucked as a leader especially carrying his team. His offense fails comparatively with his defense.

[G-train]

So what do all you dumb basterds have to say for his 1994 season, when he came third in NBA for the MVP, and led the Bulls to 2 less wins despite losing the GOAT in his prime?

[G-train]

Dumbasses weren't even watching the NBA. smh.

[Sarcastic]

You stupid moron. :facepalm Scottie killed your team.


Without Jordan? 0-1.

[G-train]

Yes, he is extremely overrated.

http://thesportsfanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/pippen-over-ewing.jpg

[Round Mound]

Pippen Without Jordan:

1993-94: Top 4 In PER
1994-95: Top 7 In PER

Jordan Played With Another Top 10 Player in the League in his Own Team.

:confusedshrug:

[Sarcastic]

So what do all you dumb basterds have to say for his 1994 season, when he came third in NBA for the MVP, and led the Bulls to 2 less wins despite losing the GOAT in his prime?


And what do you have to say about 1995, when the team was about to fall out of the playoffs and they were begging Jordan to come back to save them? Dude was literally begging Jordan to come back.

http://media.giphy.com/media/JO9l9C4I21g4M/giphy.gif

[Sarcastic]

http://thesportsfanjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/pippen-over-ewing.jpg


And then when Jordan left, he couldn't beat the Knicks...

[G-train]

And what do you have to say about 1995, when the team was about to fall out of the playoffs and they were begging Jordan to come back to save them? Dude was literally begging Jordan to come back.

http://media.giphy.com/media/JO9l9C4I21g4M/giphy.gif

If you gonna come to the 90's bball knowledge HoF table, at least bring something.

In 1995 he also played excellent, they lost an allstar in Horace Grant, and Jordan only played the final 17 games.

And what do you have to say for 1994 when he was 3rd in MVP?

You are a sad knicks fan. You are Patrick Ewing's face, with Pippens nuts sagging on it.

[G-train]

And then when Jordan left, he couldn't beat the Knicks...

What does that have to do with you being a dumb ass and not acknowledging how great he played?

[Bawkish]

So what do all you dumb basterds have to say for his 1994 season, when he came third in NBA for the MVP, and led the Bulls to 2 less wins despite losing the GOAT in his prime?

:facepalm

haven't you guys learned anything from this year's finals?

whether they win +2 or -2 or 70 wins in regular season without MJ, the fact still remains that they needed someone to average 30+ points in order to win another title & no one in that roster could provide that

[Sarcastic]

What does that have to do with you being a dumb ass and not acknowledging how great he played?


What does Pippen dunking on Ewing have to do with anything?

[Round Mound]

Only People Who Saw Pippen Play Live During The Early-Mid 90s Know How Good He Was. :confusedshrug:

He Was A Capable Scorer of 21-22 PPG, 7-8 RPG, 5-6 APG and 2-3 SPG With Ease. He Was Not a Great Scorer But Clearly Above Average and in Everything Else He Was Just Great.

He Was The Best Defensive & Playmaling SF in The League For Almost a Decade.

The Dude Also Had Great Athletic Capacity and Was One of the Best Driving and Finishing SFs in the League Aswell.

SCOTTIE PIPPEN VERSATILITY PERSONIFIED

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bOspPGO2fs

:applause:

[hateraid]

Without Jordan? 0-1.

Lol, so if you're gonna quote Pippen winning a championship without Jordan, please tell us Jordan's record without Pippen?

Why do people always admit that fact when trying to diminish the '94 season.

[AintNoSunshine]

It absolutely boggles my mind how this debate could last some many years, while the fact could not be anymore obvious:

MJ and Pippen wouldn't have been the player they eventually become if they didn't have the chance to be on the same team and go at one another in practice and share the burden in the real games.

Sure MJ is the GOAT Pippen isn't close to him. But Pippen isn't just another dude either. He's one of the greatest defender ever, extremely athletic and ran their offense as the de facto point forward.

It's not that hard guys, put this debate to rest.

[LostCause]

Pippen definitely did play great when Jordan retired the first time. The Bulls' record was good the first year as well. They really only lost Jordan as far as major contributors go, but added Toni Kukoc and Steve Kerr. Bill Wennington as well. Each of whom were big contributors and reasons why the Bulls maintained their success, though it's also kind of obvious they overachieved given their record the following season

The 2nd year wasn't that good though as they were 34-32 before Jordan returned, after which they went 13-4 to close out the year.



Lol, so if you're gonna quote Pippen winning a championship without Jordan, please tell us Jordan's record without Pippen?

Why do people always admit that fact when trying to diminish the '94 season.

Nothing to really diminish about it. They still got RS wins but for a team coming off 3 consecutive championships, they fell short. The following season would've been even worse

FWIW, if anyone wanted to use the 94 season record as evidence of god knows what with some of youm Jordan was leading the Bulls to a similar if not better record during the 97/98 season where pippen missed over half of it. At 24-11 on pace to win 56 prior to Pips return. Though I doubt they could've beaten Utah (97-98 Jazz were the 17th Best team of all time according to Elo ratings) in the Finals without Pippen

Never really got the reasons for the hwole "Jordan didn't win without Pippen", "Pippen didn't win without Jordan" arguments to begin with, though. No one wins a championship alone

[bizil]

Here's my main thing about Pip. IF he showed he was legit alpha dog scoring caliber at his peak, he could have went down as arguably the GOAT SF flat out! He has double the rings Bird and Bron have. He was arguably the greatest perimeter defender player of all time. And he redefined the SF position with his blend of point forward skills and athletic ability.

In many respects, Bron took what Pip did to the ultimate level by adding the alpha dog scoring ability. AND WE SEE where Bron ended up!! At the VERY TOP of the GOAT and peak SF lists with Bird.

If Pip added that alpha dog gene, HE COULD have been seen in the same realm as Bird and Bron. WHICH is having epic scoring ability AND epic all around ability in one. Pip had the epic all around skills BUT NOT the scoring ability to be on their level.

[Kenomax]

When checking what people say today I must agree. Pippen was never franchise player, goat perimeter defender, but his impact on offense is very overvalued today. Top 40 all-time still, great for second option to all-time great.

[bizil]

When checking what people say today I must agree. Pippen was never franchise player, goat perimeter defender, but his impact on offense is very overvalued today. Top 40 all-time still, great for second option to all-time great.


I agree! When u look at guys like MJ, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Baylor, Bron, West, Big O, Barry, Hondo, and Wade they ALL have one thing in common. They were ALL alpha dog scorers AND great all around players in one. In the case of a Durant and Dr. J, they were alpha dog scorers AND very good all around players. Peak wise, I CAN'T take Pippen over ANY of these kind of guys.

If u gave Barkley or Malone SIX RINGS, they would arguably be in the top 10-12 GOAT. If they did that, Duncan might have NEVER eclipsed them GOAT wise at the PF. The fact that Pippen has six rings BUT isn't EVEN CONSIDERED better GOAT wise that those two (who don't have any rings) is a telling statement.

It's STRICTLY because of Pip's scoring ability in my opinion. Once MJ left the Bulls the first time, Pip's scoring average HARDLY changed. Before that, I think the jury was still out on Pip's max scoring potential. But after Pip's season without MJ, the case was sealed. A great all around player who WASN'T the type to mix it with great scoring ability.

[CTbasketball92]

I agree! When u look at guys like MJ, Kobe, Bird, Magic, Baylor, Bron, West, Big O, Barry, Hondo, and Wade they ALL have one thing in common. They were ALL alpha dog scorers AND great all around players in one. In the case of a Durant and Dr. J, they were alpha dog scorers AND very good all around players. Peak wise, I CAN'T take Pippen over ANY of these kind of guys.

If u gave Barkley or Malone SIX RINGS, they would arguably be in the top 10-12 GOAT. If they did that, Duncan might have NEVER eclipsed them GOAT wise at the PF. The fact that Pippen has six rings BUT isn't EVEN CONSIDERED better GOAT wise that those two (who don't have any rings) is a telling statement.

It's STRICTLY because of Pip's scoring ability in my opinion. Once MJ left the Bulls the first time, Pip's scoring average HARDLY changed. Before that, I think the jury was still out on Pip's max scoring potential. But after Pip's season without MJ, the case was sealed. A great all around player who WASN'T the type to mix it with great scoring ability.

Exactly. To me, Pip is still top 50. I just wonder how he would've been seen w.out those championships.

[Nowoco]

Absolutely not. Underrated if anything. His 93-94 season answers any questions anyone can have about what he could do without MJ, his leadership (Kukoc incident aside) and skills.

[Sarcastic]

Exactly. To me, Pip is still top 50. I just wonder how he would've been seen w.out those championships.

He wouldn't be top 50 without those rings. Defense +16ppg =/= top 50, especially when you also consider how short his prime/peak was.

[feyki]

He has a career , which is one of the top 35 ever .

Pippen was Kawhi-level player in his prime . And don't forget Kawhi was second best in mvp voting last time .

[Nowoco]

He wouldn't be top 50 without those rings. Defense +16ppg =/= top 50, especially when you also consider how short his prime/peak was.

You say "without the rings" like that's a small part of his career. He was second option and arguably best defender on arguably the greatest team ever. The rings ARE Pippen.

[bizil]

Exactly. To me, Pip is still top 50. I just wonder how he would've been seen w.out those championships.

If Pippen NEVER won any rings, he wouldn't have made the top 50 of all time. If u look at most of the great scorers in NBA history, I think MOST of them may have been SF's. Even SG's like Jordan, Gervin, Thompson, Kobe, T Mac, Pierce, Vince, Drexler, etc. played in a swingman capacity often in their careers.

So the true HOF caliber SF's are usually EXPECTED to be dominant scorers. Once again Pip has SIX RINGS!! Why isn't he rated more in the top 10-15 area GOAT wise? It's because of the scoring side of things. Russ wasn't a great scorer either. BUT he was arguably the best defensive big man of all time. And his rebounding numbers were EPIC.

So AT LEAST Russ controlled the paint like no other on that side of the floor. Plus Russ has 11 rings and multiple MVPs too. So if u aren't going to be a great scorer, u GOTTA have Russ type impact to be a top 10 GOAT! And Pip NEVER had that Russ type of impact or resume.

[3ba11]

.
TLDR: Excluding 1994 when Pippen was a 1st option, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 12 of 34 series as a Bull (35%), and was matched with far better efficiency in 2 other critical series (98' ECF, 95' ECSF) - so that's 14 of 34 series as a Bull (41%) where his scoring was inferior to the opposing 2nd option.

During title runs, Pippen was outscored 25% of the time by opposing 2nd options, which matches the lower tier of winning sidekicks that never won FMVP or achieved elite 1st option stats (true 2nd options), such as Klay, Pau, Pippen, Rip Hamilton, and Jason Terry.. This caliber is far below the top tier of winning sidekicks that usually outscore opposing 1st options, achieve elite 1st options stats or win FMVP (Curry, Kobe, Kareem, Wade, Worthy, AD, etc).

For Pippen's career, he was outscored by opposing 2nd options in 19 of 41 series that he wasn't 1st option (nearly 50%) - so Pippen wasn't a legit 2nd option because he was outscored by opposing 2nd options half the time and has low peak scoring ability/PPG, while his worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg) confirms that he couldn't handle the volume/load.. Ultimately, his low PPG among winning sidekicks and worst-ever efficiency make him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won.

The most common rings are those won with elite 1st options playing sidekick like Kobe, Curry or Kareem ("1b" sidekicks that have achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP in their career), while it's much less common to win rings with true 2nd options that never achieved FMVP or 25 ppg (Klay, Pippen, Pau, Rip Hamilton, Jason Terry, Horry) - MJ has 6 rings with these true 2nd options, which is why he's goat.



* From 1999-2003, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 7 of 7 series - these numbers will be added to Pippen's Bull career, shown below:


1988 1st Round

Pippen'....... 10.6 ppg... 47.1 fg... 49.4 ts
L Nance...... 16.8 ppg... 53.1 fg... 58.4 ts


1988 2nd Round

Pippen......... 9.4 ppg... 45.8 fg... 48.5 ts
Dantley...... 18.6 ppg... 50.0 fg... 58.9 ts


1989 1st Round

Pippen....... 15.0 ppg... 39.7 fg... 51.0 ts
L Nance..... 19.4 ppg... 55.1 fg... 58.9 ts


1989 2nd Round

Pippen....... 14.8 ppg... 58.1 fg... 64.5 ts
Newman.... 15.5 ppg... 45.8 fg... 56.0 ts


1989 ECF

Pippen......... 9.4 ppg... 40.4 fg... 45.3 ts
Johnson..... 13.7 ppg... 53.3 fg... 59.6 ts


1990 1st Round

Pippen....... 22.5 ppg... 57.1 fg... 63.4 ts
Pierce........ 22.3 ppg... 46.7 fg... 60.4 ts


1990 2nd Round

Pippen........ 20.8 ppg... 53.3 fg... 58.1 ts
Hawkins...... 19.8 ppg... 47.7 fg... 62.6 ts


1990 ECF

Pippen....... 16.6 ppg... 42.6 fg... 52.0 ts
Isiah'......... 17.6 ppg... 39.0 fg... 51.0 ts


1991 1st Round

Pippen....... 19.7 ppg... 50.0 fg... 55.2 ts
Ewing........ 16.7 ppg... 40.0 fg... 47.3 ts


1991 2nd Round

Pippen........ 23.4 ppg... 57.1 fg... 60.9 ts
Hawkins...... 19.8 ppg... 43.1 fg... 64.4 ts


1991 ECF

Pippen......... 22.5 ppg... 47.5 fg... 56.3 ts
Aguirre........ 16.8 ppg... 45.3 fg... 55.4 ts


1991 Finals

Pippen'...... 20.6 ppg... 45.3 fg... 52.7 ts
Magic........ 18.3 ppg... 43.1 fg... 61.2 ts


1992 1st Round

Pippen....... 24.0 ppg... 55.3 fg... 63.0 ts
Ewing........ 19.0 ppg... 37.5 fg... 42.5 ts


1992 2nd Round

Pippen'....... 16.0 ppg... 40.4 fg... 49.3 ts
X-Man........ 18.6 ppg... 49.6 fg... 52.7 ts


1992 ECF

Pippen....... 19.8 ppg... 47.3 fg... 53.6 ts
Nance........ 17.8 ppg... 46.7 fg... 51.9 ts


1992 Finals

Pippen'....... 20.8 ppg... 48.4 fg... 56.0 ts
Porter......... 16.2 ppg... 47.1 fg... 57.1 ts


1993 1st Round

Pippen...... 15.3 ppg... 42.2 fg... 45.7 ts
Willis........ 16.7 ppg... 46.7 fg... 48.9 ts


1993 2nd Round

Pippen......... 18.3 ppg... 47.5 fg... 51.0 ts
Daughtery.... 16.0 ppg... 56.1 fg... 56.1 ts


1993 ECF

Pippen'...... 22.5 ppg... 51.0 fg... 57.3 ts
Starks....... 15.2 ppg... 45.3 fg... 54.6 ts


1993 Finals

Pippen...... 21.2 ppg... 43.9 fg... 45.9 ts
Majerle..... 17.2 ppg... 44.3 fg... 58.7 ts


1994 1st Round

Pippen...... 25.3 ppg... 49.3 fg... 53.7 ts
Mills......... 17.0 ppg... 50.0 fg... 59.5 ts


1994 2nd Round

Pippen...... 21.7 ppg... 40.5 fg... 51.3 ts
Ewing....... 22.9 ppg... 53.0 fg... 58.1 ts


1995 1st Round

Pippen........ 16.0 ppg... 51.2 fg... 60.2 ts
Johnson...... 20.8 ppg... 47.7 fg... 54.6 ts


1995 2nd Round

Pippen'...... 19.0 ppg... 40.9 fg... 52.2 ts
Penny........ 18.5 ppg... 44.0 fg... 54.7 ts


1996 1st Round

Pippen..,,..... 19.7 ppg... 55.6 fg... 64.0 ts
Hardaway'.... 17.7 ppg... 46.5 fg... 57.5 ts


1996 2nd Round

Pippen..,,,,,.... 15.6 ppg... 33.0 fg... 41.6 ts
Oakley........... 13.4 ppg... 50.0 fg... 57.7 ts


1996 ECF

Pippen'...... 18.5 ppg... 45.3 fg... 50.8 ts
Penny........ 25.5 ppg... 46.9 fg... 55.2 ts


1996 Finals

Pippen...... 15.7 ppg... 34.0 fg... 42.9 ts
Payton...... 18.0 ppg... 44.4 fg... 53.2 ts


1997 1st Round

Pippen....... 16.7 ppg... 38.9 fg... 49.8 ts
Howard...... 18.7 ppg... 45.5 fg... 53.9 ts


1997 2nd Round

Pippen...... 22.2 ppg... 42.9 fg... 52.4 ts
Smith....... 17.6 ppg... 31.9 fg... 49.1 ts


1997 ECF

Pippen......... 16.8 ppg... 41.7 fg... 52.6 ts
Mourning..... 15.6 ppg... 46.8 fg... 56.2 ts


1997 Finals

Pippen....... 20.0 ppg... 42.1 fg... 54.1 ts
Stockton.... 15.0 ppg... 50.0 fg... 61.3 ts


1998 1st Round

Pippen....... 18.0 ppg... 43.6 fg... 53.1 ts
Kitttles...... 16.3 ppg... 42.5 fg... 54.6 ts


1998 2nd Round

Pippen....... 17.8 ppg... 44.3 fg... 53.5 ts
Mason........ 12.6 ppg... 51.0 fg... 55.3 ts


1998 ECF

Pippen....... 16.6 ppg... 39.2 fg... 46.3 ts
Smits........ 16.3 ppg... 55.4 fg... 62.8 ts


1998 Finals

Pippen.......... 15.7 ppg... 41.0 fg... 50.2 ts
Hornacek...... 10.7 ppg... 41.1 fg... 50.1 ts


* From 1999-2003, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 7 of 7 series - these numbers will be added to Pippen's Bull career, shown above

[ShawkFactory]

.
TLDR: Excluding 1994 when Pippen was a 1st option, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 12 of 34 series as a Bull (35%), and was matched with far better efficiency in 2 other critical series (98' ECF, 95' ECSF) - so that's 14 of 34 series as a Bull (41%) where his scoring was inferior to the opposing 2nd option.

During title runs, Pippen was outscored 25% of the time by opposing 2nd options, which matches the lower tier of winning sidekicks that never won FMVP or achieved elite 1st option stats (true 2nd options), such as Klay, Pau, Pippen, Rip Hamilton, and Jason Terry.. This caliber is far below the top tier of winning sidekicks that usually outscore opposing 1st options, achieve elite 1st options stats or win FMVP (Curry, Kobe, Kareem, Wade, Worthy, AD, etc).

For Pippen's career, he was outscored by opposing 2nd options in 19 of 41 series that he wasn't 1st option (nearly 50%) - so Pippen wasn't a legit 2nd option because he was outscored by opposing 2nd options half the time and has low peak scoring ability/PPG, while his worst-ever efficiency (https://i.ibb.co/qBBHvB1/chrome-d-EXe-R4x-E8t.jpg) confirms that he couldn't handle the volume/load.. Ultimately, his low PPG among winning sidekicks and worst-ever efficiency make him the worst-scoring sidekick that ever won.

The most common rings are those won with elite 1st options playing sidekick like Kobe, Curry or Kareem ("1b" sidekicks that have achieved elite 1st option stats or FMVP in their career), while it's much less common to win rings with true 2nd options that never achieved FMVP or 25 ppg (Klay, Pippen, Pau, Rip Hamilton, Jason Terry, Horry) - MJ has 6 rings with these true 2nd options, which is why he's goat.



* From 1999-2003, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 7 of 7 series - these numbers will be added to Pippen's Bull career, shown below:


1988 1st Round

Pippen'....... 10.6 ppg... 47.1 fg... 49.4 ts
L Nance...... 16.8 ppg... 53.1 fg... 58.4 ts


1988 2nd Round

Pippen......... 9.4 ppg... 45.8 fg... 48.5 ts
Dantley...... 18.6 ppg... 50.0 fg... 58.9 ts


1989 1st Round

Pippen....... 15.0 ppg... 39.7 fg... 51.0 ts
L Nance..... 19.4 ppg... 55.1 fg... 58.9 ts


1989 2nd Round

Pippen....... 14.8 ppg... 58.1 fg... 64.5 ts
Newman.... 15.5 ppg... 45.8 fg... 56.0 ts


1989 ECF

Pippen......... 9.4 ppg... 40.4 fg... 45.3 ts
Johnson..... 13.7 ppg... 53.3 fg... 59.6 ts


1990 1st Round

Pippen....... 22.5 ppg... 57.1 fg... 63.4 ts
Pierce........ 22.3 ppg... 46.7 fg... 60.4 ts


1990 2nd Round

Pippen........ 20.8 ppg... 53.3 fg... 58.1 ts
Hawkins...... 19.8 ppg... 47.7 fg... 62.6 ts


1990 ECF

Pippen....... 16.6 ppg... 42.6 fg... 52.0 ts
Isiah'......... 17.6 ppg... 39.0 fg... 51.0 ts


1991 1st Round

Pippen....... 19.7 ppg... 50.0 fg... 55.2 ts
Ewing........ 16.7 ppg... 40.0 fg... 47.3 ts


1991 2nd Round

Pippen........ 23.4 ppg... 57.1 fg... 60.9 ts
Hawkins...... 19.8 ppg... 43.1 fg... 64.4 ts


1991 ECF

Pippen......... 22.5 ppg... 47.5 fg... 56.3 ts
Aguirre........ 16.8 ppg... 45.3 fg... 55.4 ts


1991 Finals

Pippen'...... 20.6 ppg... 45.3 fg... 52.7 ts
Magic........ 18.3 ppg... 43.1 fg... 61.2 ts


1992 1st Round

Pippen....... 24.0 ppg... 55.3 fg... 63.0 ts
Ewing........ 19.0 ppg... 37.5 fg... 42.5 ts


1992 2nd Round

Pippen'....... 16.0 ppg... 40.4 fg... 49.3 ts
X-Man........ 18.6 ppg... 49.6 fg... 52.7 ts


1992 ECF

Pippen....... 19.8 ppg... 47.3 fg... 53.6 ts
Nance........ 17.8 ppg... 46.7 fg... 51.9 ts


1992 Finals

Pippen'....... 20.8 ppg... 48.4 fg... 56.0 ts
Porter......... 16.2 ppg... 47.1 fg... 57.1 ts


1993 1st Round

Pippen...... 15.3 ppg... 42.2 fg... 45.7 ts
Willis........ 16.7 ppg... 46.7 fg... 48.9 ts


1993 2nd Round

Pippen......... 18.3 ppg... 47.5 fg... 51.0 ts
Daughtery.... 16.0 ppg... 56.1 fg... 56.1 ts


1993 ECF

Pippen'...... 22.5 ppg... 51.0 fg... 57.3 ts
Starks....... 15.2 ppg... 45.3 fg... 54.6 ts


1993 Finals

Pippen...... 21.2 ppg... 43.9 fg... 45.9 ts
Majerle..... 17.2 ppg... 44.3 fg... 58.7 ts


1994 1st Round

Pippen...... 25.3 ppg... 49.3 fg... 53.7 ts
Mills......... 17.0 ppg... 50.0 fg... 59.5 ts


1994 2nd Round

Pippen...... 21.7 ppg... 40.5 fg... 51.3 ts
Ewing....... 22.9 ppg... 53.0 fg... 58.1 ts


1995 1st Round

Pippen........ 16.0 ppg... 51.2 fg... 60.2 ts
Johnson...... 20.8 ppg... 47.7 fg... 54.6 ts


1995 2nd Round

Pippen'...... 19.0 ppg... 40.9 fg... 52.2 ts
Penny........ 18.5 ppg... 44.0 fg... 54.7 ts


1996 1st Round

Pippen..,,..... 19.7 ppg... 55.6 fg... 64.0 ts
Hardaway'.... 17.7 ppg... 46.5 fg... 57.5 ts


1996 2nd Round

Pippen..,,,,,.... 15.6 ppg... 33.0 fg... 41.6 ts
Oakley........... 13.4 ppg... 50.0 fg... 57.7 ts


1996 ECF

Pippen'...... 18.5 ppg... 45.3 fg... 50.8 ts
Penny........ 25.5 ppg... 46.9 fg... 55.2 ts


1996 Finals

Pippen...... 15.7 ppg... 34.0 fg... 42.9 ts
Payton...... 18.0 ppg... 44.4 fg... 53.2 ts


1997 1st Round

Pippen....... 16.7 ppg... 38.9 fg... 49.8 ts
Howard...... 18.7 ppg... 45.5 fg... 53.9 ts


1997 2nd Round

Pippen...... 22.2 ppg... 42.9 fg... 52.4 ts
Smith....... 17.6 ppg... 31.9 fg... 49.1 ts


1997 ECF

Pippen......... 16.8 ppg... 41.7 fg... 52.6 ts
Mourning..... 15.6 ppg... 46.8 fg... 56.2 ts


1997 Finals

Pippen....... 20.0 ppg... 42.1 fg... 54.1 ts
Stockton.... 15.0 ppg... 50.0 fg... 61.3 ts


1998 1st Round

Pippen....... 18.0 ppg... 43.6 fg... 53.1 ts
Kitttles...... 16.3 ppg... 42.5 fg... 54.6 ts


1998 2nd Round

Pippen....... 17.8 ppg... 44.3 fg... 53.5 ts
Mason........ 12.6 ppg... 51.0 fg... 55.3 ts


1998 ECF

Pippen....... 16.6 ppg... 39.2 fg... 46.3 ts
Smits........ 16.3 ppg... 55.4 fg... 62.8 ts


1998 Finals

Pippen.......... 15.7 ppg... 41.0 fg... 50.2 ts
Hornacek...... 10.7 ppg... 41.1 fg... 50.1 ts


* From 1999-2003, Pippen was outscored by the opponent's 2nd leading scorer in 7 of 7 series - these numbers will be added to Pippen's Bull career, shown above

Are you one of those failed athletes who is now an unfulfilled graveyard shift security guard or something?

That would actually make a LOT of sense.

[000]

Yeah he is. He's not top 5 of alltime, more like top 10-15.

[expansionera]

Curry was the second or third best player for three championship runs and is considered unequivocally top 15. I have Pippen firmly at top 16, he was definitely a top 3 player in the NBA the duration of the 90s granted the era was diluted

[hateraid]

I take it 3ball had a Pippen episode last night?

If that's not convincing enough he's mentally deranged then I don't know what is

[Kobe_Bryant]

pippen is overrated by lebron fans and underrated by 3ball


hes a top 30 player ever and a defensive legend. Jordan wins nothing without him but at the same time he wasn't nearly as great as other guys sidekicks were in the top 10 all time. only i had a worse sidekick. Duncan doesn't count cause he had multiple legendary sidekicks every time

[000]

Curry was the second or third best player for three championship runs
Easy there tiger

[3ba11]

Easy tiger


It's much more rare to win with true 2nd options that never achieved FMVP or dominant stats (Pau, Klay, Rip Pippen, Horry or Terry) than it is to win with elite 1st option sidekicks that have achieved dominant stats in their career or won FMVP (Curry, Kobe, Kareem Worthy, Wade, AD, etc).

Jordan has 6 rings with true 2nd options, while the next closest guy has 2 rings like this (kobe).. Jordan won 6 chips without super-teams (no 3rd star) and without 1b's (true 2nd options) - that's goat

[000]

It's much more rare to win with true 2nd options that never achieved FMVP or dominant stats (Pau, Klay, Rip Pippen, Horry or Terry) than it is to win with elite 1st option sidekicks that have achieved dominant stats in their career or won FMVP (Curry, Kobe, Kareem Worthy, Wade, AD, etc).

Jordan has 6 rings with true 2nd options, while the next closest guy has 2 rings like this (kobe).. Jordan won 6 chips without super-teams (no 3rd star) and without 1b's (true 2nd options) - that's goat
When has Curry ever been close to 3rd fiddle on his team

[3ba11]

When has Curry ever been close to 3rd fiddle on his team


Curry is one of the top tier 2nd options that are actually elite 1st options like Kobe or Kareem - that's how most rings are won - with elite 1st options that play sidekick... It's much more rare to win rings with true 2nd options that have shitty stats like Pau, Pippen, Klay, Rip Hamilton or Jason Terry.

[000]

Curry is one of the top tier 2nd options that are actually elite 1st options like Kobe or Kareem - that's how most rings are won - with elite 1st options that play sidekick... It's much more rare to win rings with true 2nd options that have shitty stats like Pau, Pippen, Klay, Rip Hamilton or Jason Terry.
2nd option is a strong word at best