Michael Jordan EXPOSED his worst NBA Finals game

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ7XJDTBouc

As requested: MJ vs Sonics game 6 Finals one of MJ's worst performances ever


But guess what?

Aside from perhaps a few rushed shots, there isn't much to criticize him on. It was just a bad shooting game. He got the shots he wanted, got good looks on almost everything he just missed.

That's not an excuse, the video will show him simply missing shots. The defense did a great job at being physical and ball denial, getting him out of position and making him work extremely hard on both ends. But he still got good shots, shots he usually makes.

He was constantly doubled, grabbed, pushed, the lanes were almost always congested so his drives were minimized. Yet he drove when he could and either drew a foul or dished it.

His footwork is impeccable, moving and weaving with and without the ball, setting up defenders to get open, losing defenders and double teams with the ball.

He was constantly moving without the ball, ALWAYS moving without it. Not sure how he got the energy to move so much specially with all the grabbing and physical play he was constantly active, constantly fighting for position, rebound, or setting up the plays. Regarding that, one could see him pointing and telling people where and when to go, pointing at them to get the ball moving, moving himself in positions to facilitate the play. If a play broke down he made sure he improvised and made something happened, if his teammate got doubled, he moved outta the way to detract defensive attention from him and possibly free him up.

I just wish the vid was in better quality, couldn't find a better version.

Making this video was tiring because MJ kept moving so keeping the spotlight on him took a while to do. Bron just sorta stood there so it was simple to edit.

Another thing some might notice, MJ didn't really have control of the ball. But when he did something positive usually happened. He didn't take long to read the defense and react, a few dribbles and bam, the ball is moving as the defense runs around. He usually passed it to the right person at the right time (except for 2 bad passes), I should do a vid on him playing PG and ball dominant to see exactly how he played like Bron or most of today's players.

[Pointguard]

First time I saw him sluggish, slow and mentally drained in that great six year playoff run. That or he looked like he had sex shortly before the game. Still was disciplined and active. A rare moment in time indeed - He and KG really got up for 99% of their games. I'm sure MJ had other sluggish games, I just didn't see them.

[sdot_thadon]

I suppose a feeble mind would never understand that Mj and Lebron are 2 completely different players and trying to compare their plays and decision making Is pretty much a waste of time. Mj was a quicker decision maker than pretty much anyone who's played. Him and dream were the quickest reaction players I can say I've watched. Their games were pretty instinct based.

That said Lebron does take his time to develop what's going to happen, for 2 reasons:

1) he's not a score 1st mentality player majority of the time he plays. He can slip into it when needed as we've seen.
2) old school fans continue to gloss over the fact that simpler defensive coverage makes it possible to make quick decisions when you're likely to only get a few different looks. In the modern game guys get way more varied looks from the defense. So scanning makes more sense in an era of more possible setups on a given play.

[Dragonyeuw]

I suppose a feeble mind would never understand that Mj and Lebron are 2 completely different players and trying to compare their plays and decision making Is pretty much a waste of time. Mj was a quicker decision maker than pretty much anyone who's played. Him and dream were the quickest reaction players I can say I've watched. Their games were pretty instinct based.

That said Lebron does take his time to develop what's going to happen, for 2 reasons:

1) he's not a score 1st mentality player majority of the time he plays. He can slip into it when needed as we've seen.
2) old school fans continue to gloss over the fact that simpler defensive coverage makes it possible to make quick decisions when you're likely to only get a few different looks. In the modern game guys get way more varied looks from the defense. So scanning makes more sense in an era of more possible setups on a given play.

I would put Bird and Magic in that category as well.

[Dragonyeuw]

Andgar, think you can do the 2011 finals at some point?

[feyki]

I liked both video . But you should call those more like "detailed looks on their game " . Exposed,overrated etc . too much overreaction .

Nice vids to see differentials of off ball playing between Jordan and Lebron .

[andgar923]

First time I saw him sluggish, slow and mentally drained in that great six year playoff run. That or he looked like he had sex shortly before the game. Still was disciplined and active. A rare moment in time indeed - He and KG really got up for 99% of their games. I'm sure MJ had other sluggish games, I just didn't see them.
Im exhausted just watching him.

I did a poor job spotlighting this video, I simply lost track of my edits. What I should've shown more is how physical they were with him. They are constantly grabbing and shoving him, even when he doesn't have the ball and is simply cutting he gets pushed as he runs through.

But that was normal back then.

Honestly, watch the Bron video and he rarely gets touched. He stands in a corner not doing much if he doesn't have the ball. When he does touch it, rarely does he get doubled, and his man plays off him giving him tons of space. The contrast in how fast they make a decision is obvious. MJ is always scanning the floor for his teammates and the defense, he catches and immediately analysis everything.

MJ is an ultra fast fiber optic cable line
Bron is AOL

[andgar923]

I liked both video . But you should call those more like "detailed looks on their game " . Exposed,overrated etc . too much overreaction .

Nice vids to see differentials of off ball playing between Jordan and Lebron .

Click bait my friend.:D

[Dragonyeuw]

First time I saw him sluggish, slow and mentally drained in that great six year playoff run. That or he looked like he had sex shortly before the game. Still was disciplined and active. A rare moment in time indeed - He and KG really got up for 99% of their games. I'm sure MJ had other sluggish games, I just didn't see them.

I rarely see this mentioned, but I think there was certain amount of fatigue as well, coming off his first full season run in 3 years. MJ missed alot of shots he would usually make in spite of how he was played. Despite being a year older in 97, he finished the year stronger with a great finals, and he lost some weight from 96 to 97 and was noticeably quicker( sort of like Wade this year, dropped some weight and quicker than the last few years even though he's 34).

[andgar923]

Andgar, think you can do the 2011 finals at some point?

I will, which game?

I don't remember them clearly. I also don't want people accusing me of cherry picking bad games to make Bron look bad.

As I mentioned in a past post, I wanted to show how today's lanes are open 24/7, I wasn't expecting to see so many flaws in his game. I even think I was kinda easy on him as I noticed other facets that I glossed over, or simply didn't have the energy to pin point them. Just how I didn't pinpoint every instance MJ got grabbed, shoved, and the amount of energy he used.

But yeah, just point me to the right direction and I'll do one when I have time.

For now it's time to do house chores (I hate days off).

[SouBeachTalents]

I will, which game?

I don't remember them clearly. I also don't want people accusing me of cherry picking bad games to make Bron look bad.

As I mentioned in a past post, I wanted to show how today's lanes are open 24/7, I wasn't expecting to see so many flaws in his game. I even think I was kinda easy on him as I noticed other facets that I glossed over, or simply didn't have the energy to pin point them. Just how I didn't pinpoint every instance MJ got grabbed, shoved, and the amount of energy he used.

But yeah, just point me to the right direction and I'll do one when I have time.

For now it's time to do house chores (I hate days off).

Game 4, the game he scored 8 points

[andgar923]

1) he's not a score 1st mentality player majority of the time he plays. He can slip into it when needed as we've seen.
2) old school fans continue to gloss over the fact that simpler defensive coverage makes it possible to make quick decisions when you're likely to only get a few different looks. In the modern game guys get way more varied looks from the defense. So scanning makes more sense in an era of more possible setups on a given play.

1. I agree, Bron doesn't look to score first. Which is one of the reasons he takes longer to analyze the floor.

I think Bron takes longer for a few reasons.

He simply takes long... Errr... That's kinda the truth.
The offense setups are giving him issues perhaps?

There was a few instances in which he just appears to be lost or confused. His instincts are inconsistent. At times he's one of the best ever, at times he sorta just looks lost. And this isn't in reference to my video but in general. Doesn't happen often, but it does happen from time to time, more times than I'd like to see from a top 10 player that's for sure.

2. You're wrong if you think the defenses back then were simpler. Did you watch the video? They were switching everything, shadowing and preventing ball entries, they were physical, they did everything today's defense does.

But guess what? They were allowed to camp in the lane!!!!

They were allowed to be physical, much much more physical than today.

Bron has open lanes and he doesn't take advantage, f*ck a play ATTACK!!! His defender plays off him rarely being as physical as they were back then. So that alone nulls any small advantage today's defense has and swings it back into past era's favor.

Should I expose today's weak era defense as well? How the lanes are wide open? How the physical free rules are in the perimeter player's favor and how that restricts the defense from actually playing to their capacity?

The shit that we spew isn't outta hate. It is what it is.

So even IF today's defense have different schemes, guess what? They're f*ckin playing handicapped!!!

[andgar923]

Game 4, the game he scored 8 points
Muchas gracias

[TheWinningFam]

Do cuckry next :lol

[Pointguard]

I rarely see this mentioned, but I think there was certain amount of fatigue as well, coming off his first full season run in 3 years. MJ missed alot of shots he would usually make in spite of how he was played. Despite being a year older in 97, he finished the year stronger with a great finals, and he lost some weight from 96 to 97 and was noticeably quicker( sort of like Wade this year, dropped some weight and quicker than the last few years even though he's 34).

yeah, I, at times, thought he would never tire in an important game, but he is human after all.


Im exhausted just watching him.

I did a poor job spotlighting this video, I simply lost track of my edits. What I should've shown more is how physical they were with him. They are constantly grabbing and shoving him, even when he doesn't have the ball and is simply cutting he gets pushed as he runs through.

But that was normal back then.

MJ is an ultra fast fiber optic cable line
Bron is AOL

Yes. I thought for his super human self he was slower than normal. He rarely went over anybody in that video. That rarely ever happens. If you did the video great job and commentary.

[Dragonyeuw]

I will, which game?

I don't remember them clearly. I also don't want people accusing me of cherry picking bad games to make Bron look bad.

As I mentioned in a past post, I wanted to show how today's lanes are open 24/7, I wasn't expecting to see so many flaws in his game. I even think I was kinda easy on him as I noticed other facets that I glossed over, or simply didn't have the energy to pin point them. Just how I didn't pinpoint every instance MJ got grabbed, shoved, and the amount of energy he used.

But yeah, just point me to the right direction and I'll do one when I have time.

For now it's time to do house chores (I hate days off).

The 8 point game( game 4?) I suppose would be a good one, or even the triple double one( his 'best' game statistically). Actually, if you're feeling real ambitious, showing one of Wade's games to show the differences in how they attacked the defense would be cool.

[andgar923]

The 8 point game( game 4?) I suppose would be a good one, or even the triple double one( his 'best' game statistically). Actually, if you're feeling real ambitious, showing one of Wade's games to show the differences in how they attacked the defense would be cool.

I was actually gonna show the difference between Bron and Kyrie.

I'll see what I can do.

[LostCause]

Great video

I'd be interested to see you do a defensive video during the Pistons series, both by and against Jordan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l2uSGYlQN4

I think one of the 2014 games for Lebron would be better than his 8 point one

[Dragonyeuw]

I was actually gonna show the difference between Bron and Kyrie.

I'll see what I can do.

Or that yeah, since they're playing the same defenses so comparisons are apple to apple.

[andgar923]

I apologize if I can't get to every vid requested, I do plan on making them at some point.

I just came across a very good HD copy of a Bulls vs Suns game (game 4 I believe), and I will try to focus on the difference on how the rules and lanes are.

Some people are complaining that the lanes aren't wide open, yet I will show that by comparison today's lanes are indeed wide open. I will show how the defense is sophisticated and how the hand checking rules aid the defender.

In contrast, i will show how today's rules aid the offensive player.

I just finished downloading the vid, gimme an hour or so.

[Indian guy]

I suppose a feeble mind would never understand that Mj and Lebron are 2 completely different players and trying to compare their plays and decision making Is pretty much a waste of time.

Essentially, this. But hey, did you know there's only one way to basketball (the way MJ played, obviously)? So anyone who stylistically didn't mirror his style clearly sucks!! :rolleyes:

btw, is the OP capable of understanding the fact that if the paint was more camped back in the day, that means the perimeter was bound to be a lot more open? Just watch the video in this thread and compare it to his 2016 Finals one. There's so much more open space to operate on the perimeter for both MJ and Pippen. Direct paths from the 3pt line to the paint without a 2nd defender in-between that you simply don't see today. Illegal defense meant defenders were handicapped to stick to their man. Either that or outright double team the ball handler and give up an open shot. Either way, it resulted in a lot more spacing.

What I'm getting at is that everything evens out. In the 90's, you had illegal defense, so it was a lot easier to isolate guys and give them space to operate and go 1-on-1 - particularly from the wings/elbows. Spacing was superior and the defenses were simpler. But of course, the 3 ball also wasn't as frequently used back in the day, so the paint was more packed and you had to be more reliant on a jumper. Add more physicality to that and it was a little tougher to drive past your man than it has been post-1995(handcheck ban). In the current league, you have no illegal defense, so the primary ball handler, particularly if he's good, is almost always soft-doubled at the very least. You have strong-side defenses that make any type of straight-line attack to the rim an impossibility. Spacing, particularly from 15 feet and outside, is a lot worse. Thus the higher usage of the 3 ball to force defenses to come out a little and open up the driving lanes. And the softer hand-check rules that make driving past the first line defense easier. Each era has its strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day, players always adjust and this is why the NBA's decade-by-decade numbers never change. Any attempt to try to paint one era as significantly weaker/tougher than the other is just agenda-driven garbage. If that was the case, then there would be significant fluctuations in the league's annual numbers over the years. But that simply hasn't been the case.

[HurricaneKid]

2. You're wrong if you think the defenses back then were simpler. Did you watch the video? They were switching everything, shadowing and preventing ball entries, they were physical, they did everything today's defense does.

But guess what? They were allowed to camp in the lane!!!!

They were allowed to be physical, much much more physical than today.


This is WILLFULLY ignorant. Yes, it was more physical. But that's because they so hamstrung defenses with the rules that they had to allow SOMETHING to defend. Throw Jared Dudley out at the 3 point line and his defender had to be above the break (FT line) on his side of the floor. Now, his defender would just camp on the strong side just before the lane, clogging everything up. Strict rules on allowable defenses meant that you would only have to worry about a few defenders on any given play, making it FAR easier to make reads.

And no, you could not camp in the lane unless your man was camping in the lane.

[LostCause]

Essentially, this. But hey, did you know there's only one way to basketball (the way MJ played, obviously)? So anyone who stylistically didn't mirror his style clearly sucks!! :rolleyes:

btw, is the OP capable of understanding the fact that if the paint was more camped back in the day, that means the perimeter was bound to be a lot more open? Just watch the video in this thread and compare it to his 2016 Finals one. There's so much more open space to operate on the perimeter for both MJ and Pippen. Direct paths from the 3pt line to the paint without a 2nd defender in-between that you simply don't see today. Illegal defense meant defenders were handicapped to stick to their man. Either that or outright double team the ball handler and give up an open shot. Either way, it resulted in a lot more spacing.

What I'm getting at is that everything evens out. In the 90's, you had illegal defense, so it was a lot easier to isolate guys and give them space to operate and go 1-on-1 - particularly from the wings/elbows. Spacing was superior and the defenses were simpler. But of course, the 3 ball also wasn't as frequently used back in the day, so the paint was more packed and you had to be more reliant on a jumper. Add more physicality to that and it was a little tougher to drive past your man than it has been post-1995(handcheck ban). In the current league, you have no illegal defense, so the primary ball handler, particularly if he's good, is almost always soft-doubled at the very least. You have strong-side defenses that make any type of straight-line attack to the rim an impossibility. Spacing, particularly from 15 feet and outside, is a lot worse. Thus the higher usage of the 3 ball to force defenses to come out a little and open up the driving lanes. And the softer hand-check rules that make driving past the first line defense easier. Each era has its strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day, players always adjust and this is why the NBA's decade-by-decade numbers never change. Any attempt to try to paint one era as significantly weaker/tougher than the other is just agenda-driven garbage. If that was the case, then there would be significant fluctuations in the league's annual numbers over the years. But that simply hasn't been the case.
This is one of the best takes on it that I've read in recent memory. No bias present and explains things well. :cheers:

[Dragonyeuw]

Each era has its strengths and weaknesses. At the end of the day, players always adjust and this is why the NBA's decade-by-decade numbers never change. Any attempt to try to paint one era as significantly weaker/tougher than the other is just agenda-driven garbage. If that was the case, then there would be significant fluctuations in the league's annual numbers over the years. But that simply hasn't been the case.

YES.

[hiphopfan777]

Gary payton also played bad. His shooting was bad

[plowking]

Who would have guessed it? :oldlol:

andgar comes back with a positive review on MJ. :oldlol:
I could make the exact same video and make him look like shit. As usual, terrible post from a terrible poster.
For comparison, I'll do the first 5 plays of that game.

First play - Jordan has space to go baseline, instead drives into the crowd, and into the way of Harper cutting. He then sits in the lane, clogs the space for a Pippen drive. Luckily Pippen makes the shot and Jordan gets away with it. Terrible decision making by Jordan overall.

Second play - MJ comes down the court, struggles to post up far smaller and weaker Gary Payton. Gets pushed out to the 3 point line by him. Then proceeds to take a terrible, low percentage shot that just happens to go in. Pays off for him in this case. Had the entire baseline to drive, or room to operate to post up a far smaller player. Bad decision again.

Third play - At 5:52. You write "MJ sees an opening and was at least aggressive". I see him not wait for the screen coming from Luc, and him driving baseline into two guys. So how exactly is that not poor decision making? I'd love to hear this one. :oldlol:
One thing coaches kill you for in junior basketball is going before the screen is set. Apparently you think it is fine for Jordan to drive into traffic instead of take the screen and open up the court. :oldlol:

Play four - MJ gets the ball on the wing, drives and gets hit. His first good play of the game.

Fifth play - MJ once again fails to post up the smaller and weaker player. Once again getting pushed out almost to the 3 point line despite starting on the block. Not gonna criticize him for it but you are Bron? :oldlol:
Then he sets an illegal screen which isn't called of course. :oldlol:

Bonus (next play) - Why is he struggling to post up a smaller guy again?

Funny how your bias gets in the way.

[andgar923]

and keep them shook crews runnin'
like they supposed to
they come around but they never come close to

[OldSchoolBBall]

I suppose a feeble mind would never understand that Mj and Lebron are 2 completely different players and trying to compare their plays and decision making Is pretty much a waste of time. Mj was a quicker decision maker than pretty much anyone who's played. Him and dream were the quickest reaction players I can say I've watched. Their games were pretty instinct based.

To me, Bird was very similar to Jordan in that regard.

[Indian guy]

Who would have guessed it? :oldlol:

andgar comes back with a positive review on MJ. :oldlol:
I could make the exact same video and make him look like shit. As usual, terrible post from a terrible poster.
For comparison, I'll do the first 5 plays of that game.

First play - Jordan has space to go baseline, instead drives into the crowd, and into the way of Harper cutting. He then sits in the lane, clogs the space for a Pippen drive. Luckily Pippen makes the shot and Jordan gets away with it. Terrible decision making by Jordan overall.

Second play - MJ comes down the court, struggles to post up far smaller and weaker Gary Payton. Gets pushed out to the 3 point line by him. Then proceeds to take a terrible, low percentage shot that just happens to go in. Pays off for him in this case. Had the entire baseline to drive, or room to operate to post up a far smaller player. Bad decision again.

Third play - At 5:52. You write "MJ sees an opening and was at least aggressive". I see him not wait for the screen coming from Luc, and him driving baseline into two guys. So how exactly is that not poor decision making? I'd love to hear this one. :oldlol:
One thing coaches kill you for in junior basketball is going before the screen is set. Apparently you think it is fine for Jordan to drive into traffic instead of take the screen and open up the court. :oldlol:

Play four - MJ gets the ball on the wing, drives and gets hit. His first good play of the game.

Fifth play - MJ once again fails to post up the smaller and weaker player. Once again getting pushed out almost to the 3 point line despite starting on the block. Not gonna criticize him for it but you are Bron? :oldlol:
Then he sets an illegal screen which isn't called of course. :oldlol:

Bonus (next play) - Why is he struggling to post up a smaller guy again?

Funny how your bias gets in the way.

Great post. Totally exposes andgar's BS. Using his method of 'analysis', one can literally tear apart or praise the same performance to the heavens.

[fourkicks44]

and keep them shook crews runnin'
like they supposed to
they come around but they never come close to

The kid's are too young for Mobb Deep, they love that Beiber shit.

[Pointguard]

I suppose a feeble mind would never understand that Mj and Lebron are 2 completely different players and trying to compare their plays and decision making Is pretty much a waste of time. Mj was a quicker decision maker than pretty much anyone who's played. Him and dream were the quickest reaction players I can say I've watched. Their games were pretty instinct based.


Magic - actually knew where all five players were before they got there, Bird, young Larry Johnson and MVP D Rose were the same way. An intuitive game is always beautiful to watch. Oakafor, like Hakeem, will have some of the best instant counter moves.

[jstern]

I rarely see this mentioned, but I think there was certain amount of fatigue as well, coming off his first full season run in 3 years. MJ missed alot of shots he would usually make in spite of how he was played. Despite being a year older in 97, he finished the year stronger with a great finals, and he lost some weight from 96 to 97 and was noticeably quicker( sort of like Wade this year, dropped some weight and quicker than the last few years even though he's 34).

I remember back in 97 Jordan mentioning that after he came back for the 95 season, and the way it ended, he spent the whole Summer getting himself back into shape. Which was draining, so took the Summer of 96 off.

[plowking]

and keep them shook crews runnin'
like they supposed to
they come around but they never come close to

Dude gets bodied with absolute facts, and exposed for his 20 minutes of BS, and this is what he posts? :oldlol:

[andgar923]

Dude gets bodied with absolute facts, and exposed for his 20 minutes of BS, and this is what he posts? :oldlol:

FACTS?

You and your sisters are delusional and mad.

Only LeBronites are upset and trying their hardest to spin what many have already known.

Nobody is replying to you or your sister's posts because they're a joke. Nothing but excuses and spins, have you not noticed that only your sisters are criticizing my vids?

Sure, they're not perfect, one can nitpick some of what I made, but the overall main point still stands. The vast majority of what I presented is irrefutable and clear as day.

But keep staying mad, it does't take away the FACT that Bron has ways to go when compared to the all time greats in the actual 'art' and 'skill' of basketball.

And LOL @ those silly gifs your sister posted, as if they prove a damn thing other than a pick and roll that even Will Perdue can run:oldlol:

[plowking]

FACTS?

You and your sisters are delusional and mad.

Only LeBronites are upset and trying their hardest to spin what many have already known.

Nobody is replying to you or your sister's posts because they're a joke. Nothing but excuses and spins, have you not noticed that only your sisters are criticizing my vids?

Sure, they're not perfect, one can nitpick some of what I made, but the overall main point still stands. The vast majority of what I presented is irrefutable and clear as day.

But keep staying mad, it does't take away the FACT that Bron has ways to go when compared to the all time greats in the actual 'art' and 'skill' of basketball.

And LOL @ those silly gifs your sister posted, as if they prove a damn thing other than a pick and roll that even Will Perdue can run:oldlol:

:oldlol:

Dude repeating the same shit he wrote in other threads.

No, nothing you wrote is irrefutable. I just refuted the first five plays. My criticism of Jordan getting pushed out of the optimal post position is one you'll find much more in line with commentary presented by all NBA guys.
Yours on the matter is "It is Jordan guys! He is amazing! He is always attacking!" lol... :oldlol:

I know you tried to call me a girl in that post, but you failed at that too. You're old and out of touch bro. Not to mention you simply suck at life.