Is Tony P. One Of The Top 50 GOAT ?

[feyki]

I don't think he was better than even Ginobili , peak wise . But he played from 2002 to till now . Amazing longevity .

What are your opinions ?

[FireDavidKahn]

Not even close.

To be a top 50 GOAT, you have to be flat out dominant

[ShawkFactory]

Tough call.

His career would certainly put him there.

But he wasn't even close to one of the 50 BEST players ever.

I'd probably lean towards no.

[fourkicks44]

Top 50 GOAT point guards fo sho.

[feyki]

Top 50 GOAT point guards fo sho.

:lebronamazed:

:oldlol:

[iamgine]

Is he top 10 GOAT Spurs?

[Young X]

He has 4 rings, A FMVP and multiple all-star selections.

According to ISH he has the accolades to easily be a top 50 player.

But people only use this when it's convenient. There's no consistency to the way people rank players. It changes based on who they like or don't like.

John Stockton has 0 rings and and 0 FMVP's but is almost always seen as greater. It doesn't make any sense (even though I agree that he should be ranked higher because he was a better player).

[aj1987]

He has 4 rings, A FMVP and multiple all-star selections.

According to ISH he has the accolades to easily be a top 50 player.

But people only use this when it's convenient. There's no consistency to the way people rank players. It changes based on who they like or don't like.

John Stockton has 0 rings and and 0 FMVP's but is almost always seen as greater. It doesn't make any sense (even though I agree that he should be ranked higher because he was a better player).
TP was an amazing player, but he's not even close to being top 50. I know you're a CP3 Stan. Dude's a couple of tiers below him. Accolades do matter, but choke jobs can't be overlooked either.

[Young X]

TP was an amazing player, but he's not even close to being top 50. I know you're a CP3 Stan. Dude's a couple of tiers below him. Accolades do matter, but choke jobs can't be overlooked either.With 4 rings and a FMVP?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I've seen the way you rank players. It's mostly accolade-driven.

It makes no sense for you to not even rank Parker close to the top 50. You're basically contradicting yourself.

[iamgine]

There is some consistency but you have to consider roles. How impactful was he.

He's not more impactful than, say CP3. Therefore despite winning titles he can't be considered higher.

[sammichoffate]

Is Chauncey Billups in the top 50?

[fourkicks44]

Is Chauncey Billups in the top 50?

Top 50 GOAT point guards fo sho.

[Nowoco]

There's no bigger TP fan than me but no he is not top 50. But with that career, who cares?

[tpols]

tony parker has more MVP votes for his career than both John Stockton and Isiah Thomas .. he is criminally underrated.

[houston]

no but he is top 15 all-time great PG

[T_L_P]

Not quite. He's just about the 5th best PG of the 2000s, not top 50 all-time.

[Smoke117]

**** no

[SouBeachTalents]

Once you get past the top 30 or so, it really becomes completely subjective how the players are ranked. If someone had Parker ranked 45th I wouldn't necessarily disagree, if someone had him ranked 65th I wouldn't necessarily disagree either

[SCdac]

^ yeah tpols, and Derrick Rose has as many MVP's as Shaq.

MVP isn't the end all be all. As far as Parker I think he's somewhere in between top 70 - top 100, personally.

Rankings are subjective already but by the time you get to those deep rankings it becomes increasingly subjective. In terms of talent, I think I have him in the same ball park as Tim Hardaway and Kevin Johnson.

Parker had won 2 championships before he became an AS, and in the 05 playoffs (probably the toughest championship for SA) he was clearly behind TD and Manu. By 2007, he had improved greatly and had a dream matchup for a PG with rookie Daniel Gibson in the finals. The 4 game sweep was low scoring and over quickly, and Parker, like Iguodala on GSW, came out the best in the series.

He's an excellent player, has become more experienced and clutch, has improved his jumper drastically since rookie year, and he's got a winning attitude. Not an elite defender though, doesn't play above the rim ala Thomas or Westbrook, and I don't think he would make huge waves on a "team of his own".

[feyki]

http://www.basketballlists.com/p/top-500-overall-2014-list.html

This list wasn't bad , generally . They took Parker in the top 50 . Of course , not a amazing ranking . But not bad too .

I think Parker on the same level as Parish,Ray Allen,Dennis Johnson type of guys , career wise . Top 60-65 more accurately .

[aj1987]

With 4 rings and a FMVP?

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I've seen the way you rank players. It's mostly accolade-driven.

It makes no sense for you to not even rank Parker close to the top 50. You're basically contradicting yourself.
You must've just looked at my posts about CP3 then. TP was a really good player, but there wasn't a single season when he was actually a top 5 player in the league. Kinda similar to CP3 as well. Dude was a top 5 player probably once or twice in his entire career. Dude choked a LOT as well. As did TP. In TP's defense, he did step up when it mattered the most a couple of times. Again, how the **** do you get blown out by 58 points, while scoring 4/2/6 with 6 TOV's on 2/7 shooting against the freaking Melo led Nuggets?

[j3lademaster]

Is he top 10 GOAT Spurs?Wtf kind of question is that? Of course he is.

[k0kakw0rld]

I don't think he was better than even Ginobili , peak wise . But he played from 2002 to till now . Amazing longevity .

What are your opinions ?
Not many can say that they have 4 rings and 1 FMVP
Not many can say they beat LeBron in the Final twice :confusedshrug:

[Young X]

You must've just looked at my posts about CP3 then. TP was a really good player, but there wasn't a single season when he was actually a top 5 player in the league. Kinda similar to CP3 as well. Dude was a top 5 player probably once or twice in his entire career. Dude choked a LOT as well. As did TP. In TP's defense, he did step up when it mattered the most a couple of times. Again, how the **** do you get blown out by 58 points, while scoring 4/2/6 with 6 TOV's on 2/7 shooting against the freaking Melo led Nuggets?Man what the f*ck is your problem?

I asked you a simple question and you're trying to make this about Chris Paul when the thread has nothing to do with him. What kind of response is this?

It's like it's impossible to have a regular basketball discussion with you guys on here. What happened to all the mature, rational posters on here?

[BasedTom]

most overrated player of all time

[aj1987]

Man what the f*ck is your problem?

I asked you a simple question and you're trying to make this about Chris Paul when the thread has nothing to do with him. What kind of response is this?

It's like it's impossible to have a regular basketball discussion with you guys on here. What happened to all the mature, rational posters on here?
Sure, lets have a discussion about TP, but do not pretend that your previous post wasn't based on me not ranking CP3 among the ATG's (because of accolades). Stop being so sensitive and protective, dude.

Again, TP lucked into circumstances. Dude was actually an amazing player, but not even close to being a top 50 level talent. He was never a top 5 player in the league. He does have accolades, but they carry as much weight as Horry's.

[SamuraiSWISH]

No. Marbury was better.

[tpols]

Again, TP lucked into circumstances. Dude was actually an amazing player, but not even close to being a top 50 level talent. He was never a top 5 player in the league.

neither was john stockton. He played on a team with someone who was considered better than him too, in fact, just like tony parker. Tony Parker is not robert horry level.. he is 63rd in MVP shares, so ballpark that might be around his range when you add some of his post season performances in, maybe a little better. Just because Tony Parker wasn't a superstar doesnt mean he was a role player.. he was signifigantly better than robert horry level.. but if you look at whatever metric to see top 50, the list starts to get seriously watered down past 40 or so.. so tony is up there.

[NuggetsFan]

TP has a peak regular season of 22/7 on 50% shooting. Had an 8 year stretch of 19/6 on 51% playing on contenders. Everyone always points out the only reason he got FMVP was because of the opponent but overall for that playoff run he averaged 21/6/3.

His first championship he only averaged 15/3 on poor shooting in the playoffs. The other three he was at 17+ including the one year where he was over 20. You can pick out a 4 year stretch where he averaged 22/5/4 in 55 playoff games including a championship. He averaged 15/5 on a 60 win team at 20, 14/5 on a 55 win team at age 32 in between his prime.

Has 4 top 10 finishes in MVP voting. 1 top 5 finish. 3 All-NBA 2nd teams. 1 All-NBA 3rd team. 6x All-Star. Currently 28th All-Time in assists and should finish with 19k points. Parker kinda breaks the system. He's not Horry or some passenger on paper. Not like Billups where he only won 1 ring. Parker messes up how alot on people rank players.

[aj1987]

neither was john stockton. He played on a team with someone who was considered better than him too, in fact, just like tony parker. Tony Parker is not robert horry level.. he is 63rd in MVP shares, so ballpark that might be around his range when you add some of his post season performances in, maybe a little better. Just because Tony Parker wasn't a superstar doesnt mean he was a role player.. he was signifigantly better than robert horry level.. but if you look at whatever metric to see top 50, the list starts to get seriously watered down past 40 or so.. so tony is up there.
I never said he was. Who would you rank higher? TP or Frazier? Most people do not even have Frazier in their top 60. ISH has a pretty decent top 100 list. I think Deuce started it and TP was ranked ~65-70. Mourning and Mutombo were ranked behind TP, and IMO, he should be ranked behind them.

I definitely agree with you about the rankings being ****ed up after ~40.

[ArbitraryWater]

You must've just looked at my posts about CP3 then. TP was a really good player, but there wasn't a single season when he was actually a top 5 player in the league. Kinda similar to CP3 as well. Dude was a top 5 player probably once or twice in his entire career. Dude choked a LOT as well. As did TP. In TP's defense, he did step up when it mattered the most a couple of times. Again, how the **** do you get blown out by 58 points, while scoring 4/2/6 with 6 TOV's on 2/7 shooting against the freaking Melo led Nuggets?

this cant honestly be your take on Paul to Parker :biggums: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[aj1987]

this cant honestly be your take on Paul to Parker :biggums: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
I wouldn't expect a casual like yourself, who started watching basketball 4 years ago, to know much about basketball.

[tamaraw08]

Once you get past the top 30 or so, it really becomes completely subjective how the players are ranked. If someone had Parker ranked 45th I wouldn't necessarily disagree, if someone had him ranked 65th I wouldn't necessarily disagree either
good point, that is why I go to the facts, his career stats.
16 pts is not great.
6 assists, not great either, maybe one can argue that he belonged to a stacked team which robbed him of better stats, but his 2.4 turnovers is just waay to high IMO. He also is not very accurate from the perimeter at only 32%
He maybe one of the best penetrating PGs ever but it is my opinion that guys like Mike Bibby, Kenny Anderson, peak Damon Stoudamire would have contributed as well under the great coach Popovich with great teammates like Duncan, Kawhi, Ginobli etc.

[FireDavidKahn]

Not many can say that they have 4 rings and 1 FMVP
Not many can say they beat LeBron in the Final twice :confusedshrug:
Being a top 50 goat requires you to be dominant, before you consider the hardware.

Only using hardware as an achievement to rank players is beyond illogical.

[bobopenguin]

dude is a system player. i doubt he will achieve same thing if he was in other team.

[Cone]

People have Curry top 30 lol. So yes, Parker is top 50.

[feyki]

dude is a system player. i doubt he will achieve same thing if he was in other team.

I don't get this bullshit . Every player play in the system . If you are a smart player , you should use that advantage . It's a positive thing . Basketball isn't one on one .

[Lebron23]

I put him over Joe Dumars. Both are former NBA Finals MVP, but Parker had more all nba teams in his resume.