Ok... who HONESTLY has Kobe in the Top 10 all-time?

[Dray n Klay]

Be Honest, no trolling.


While I would love to have Kobe in my Top 10, I just can't come up with a valid reason on why he's > Hakeem outside of "5 rangzz". What else can I say to prop up Kobe?





I'm trying to fit Kobe in my Top 10 but.... I just can't





I have him 12th though, I think after Hakeem and Oscar, you can make an argument for Kobe at 12th









Now, all those who think Kobe is Top 10, reveal yourselves, don't hide. Tell us why you think he's Top 10

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe definitely has an argument for top 10, he's 11th at worst imo. And he's ranked higher than Oscar all time

[Dray n Klay]

Kobe definitely has an argument for top 10, he's 11th at worst imo. And he's ranked higher than Oscar all time

Kobe had 8 years of peak Shaq and only won 3 times.





Are you telling me Oscar + Shaq win less than at least 3 rings in 8 years together??

[Fudge]

Not I.

Hakeem (who I have at 10) is clearly the superior player with a much better peak. Same amount of FMVP's and MVP's, against the greatest era among big men.

He has a very small argument for #11, but then again, I wouldn't blame people for putting either Big O, or Moses in that spot.

[Dray n Klay]

Not I.

Hakeem (who I have at 10) is clearly the superior player with a much better peak. Same amount of FMVP's and MVP's, against the greatest era among big men.

He has a very small argument for #11, but then again, I wouldn't blame people for putting either Big O, or Moses in that spot.

Hmm. I'm a Kobe fan, but... I ... can't disagree with you :(







Your post makes sense, #11-15 seems like a good range for Kobe :confusedshrug:

[scuzzy]

Not I

Had em at 14-17 around 03

Now have em at 17-19

Lowest ill go is 12th, and thats generous

Simply did not have the durability and longevity to break a top 10 spot. Not to mention an atrocious finals performer

Clyde Drexter of the 00's era

And theres nothing wrong with that, congrats mamba

:cheers:




.

[Prometheus]

I'd put MJ in the #1 spot, then KAJ, Russell, and LeBron in no particular order for spots 2-4.

Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Wilt should fill out the rest of the top ten. I'd personally rank Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe, but I'd probably put him ahead of Bird and Magic. So for me, Kobe would be #7.

We won. LeBron > Kobe forever. Everyone knows it. There's no need to keep beating a dead horse and trashing Kobe's legacy. His fanbase is annoying, but that's honestly not his fault.

Let's follow our King's example and "take the high road". That's what winners do. No need to keep throwing shade at the mamba... he is one of the greatest players to ever lace them up.

[Dray n Klay]

I'd put MJ in the #1 spot, then KAJ, Russell, and LeBron in no particular order for spots 2-4.

Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Wilt should fill out the rest of the top ten. I'd personally rank Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe, but I'd probably put him ahead of Bird and Magic. So for me, Kobe would be #7.

We won. LeBron > Kobe forever. Everyone knows it. There's no need to keep beating a dead horse and trashing Kobe's legacy. His fanbase is annoying, but that's honestly not his fault.

Let's follow our King's example and "take the high road". That's what winners do. No need to keep throwing shade at the mamba... he is one of the greatest players to ever lace them up.


So you think Kobe is better than Hakeem the Dream?

[Prometheus]

So you think Kobe is better than Hakeem the Dream?

Peak for peak, I'd put Hakeem on my squad over Kobe. But looking over their full careers, taking in everything that they accomplished, I would go with Kobe and not even hesitate.

[scuzzy]

We won. LeBron > Kobe forever. Everyone knows it. There's no need to keep beating a dead horse and trashing Kobe's legacy. His fanbase is annoying, but that's honestly not his fault.

As a big kobe fan, i concur, we lost

But youre not beating a dead horse in us

We gave LeBron and his fans shit for 6 years about no MVPs rings, 8 years anout no titles, 4 years of cant do it alone, etc etc.

Seems only necessary we as kobe take our retribution for the same amount of time we dished it.

3 little months of butt pugging by the LeBron Fams is only an appetizer IMO

[Dray n Klay]

Peak for peak, I'd put Hakeem on my squad over Kobe. But looking over their full careers, taking in everything that they accomplished, I would go with Kobe and not even hesitate.

So how heavily do you rank accomplishments over peak play?

Is it 50/50 weighting?




Kobe is Top 10 all-time in accomplishments (even with only 1 MVP), but his peak play and overall game is Top 15-20, thats how I rank him around 12-13 all-time :confusedshrug:



There's no bias here

[raprap]

He's currently 11 in my list. His last few years really hurt his stock imo. Should have retired earlier.

[Prometheus]

So how heavily do you rank accomplishments over peak play?

Is it 50/50 weighting?




Kobe is Top 10 all-time in accomplishments (even with only 1 MVP), but his peak play and overall game is Top 15-20, thats how I rank him around 12-13 all-time :confusedshrug:



There's no bias here

I don't really have it down to a science. Doing so would be dumb imho. You have to just look at every pair of players you want to compare, and evaluate them in their own unique way.

Kobe had some harsh stains on his resume... he missed the playoffs in his prime once, and got bounced in the first round twice.

Hakeem? He missed the playoffs in his prime once, and got bounced in the first round EIGHT times in his career. Eight. You know how many times he made it past the first round? Seven.

No matter how you dice it up, Kobe was more of a winner than Hakeem. Less talented, but perhaps more determined and more competitive.

[SwayDizzle]

I really like this unbiased thread. Kobe is firmly in the #5 spot. I am a big lakers fan and he has officially been crowned the king of LA. The greatest laker of all time. We have someone that emulated MJs game to a tee and perfected the long range in yo three faces shot.

[Prometheus]

As a big kobe fan, i concur, we lost

But youre not beating a dead horse in us

We gave LeBron and his fans shit for 6 years about no MVPs rings, 8 years anout no titles, 4 years of cant do it alone, etc etc.

Seems only necessary we as kobe take our retribution for the same amount of time we dished it.

3 little months of butt pugging by the LeBron Fams is only an appetizer IMO

I get what you're saying, and if the LeBron Family just continues to shovel dirt on the Kobe Army, so be it. I suppose they deserve it for being such cockroaches for SO. F*cking. Long... but honestly, I just feel like winning is enough.

Do you understand that we WON? Like honestly, the debate is OVER. Forever. LeBron > Kobe. EVERYONE KNOWS IT NOW. There's no need to pick fights with them anymore. Let them keep crying, let them be frustrated, let them do whatever they want.

But think about it... what would LeBron do? He would just look at the record and think "Well, I won..." and let it be. He would take the high road, because he always does.

Be better than the Kobetards.

[Big164]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem
5. Shaquille O'neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwon

[tpols]

While I would love to have Kobe in my Top 10, I just can't come up with a valid reason on why he's > Hakeem outside of "5 rangzz". What else can I say to prop up Kobe?


what's up man! you might've been gone the past month or so.. but i got you brother. Explained in the following link is a detailed analysis on why Kobe > Hakeem for careers. link (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414530)

I look forward to your reply!

-smak

[Nilocon165]

1. Michael Jordan
2. Wilt Chamberlain
3. Bill Russell
4. Kareem
5. Shaquille O'neal
6. Magic Johnson
7. Larry Bird
8. Tim Duncan
9. Kobe Bryant
10. Hakeem Olajuwon
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/michael-jordan-laugh.gif

[Dray n Klay]

what's up man! you might've been gone the past month or so.. but i got you brother. Explained in the following link is a detailed analysis on why Kobe > Hakeem for careers. link (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414530)

I look forward to your reply!

-smak

Hmmmm... so even you don't have Kobe in the Top 10?


Interesting...

[tpols]

Hmmmm... so even you don't have Kobe in the Top 10?


Interesting...


well.. i've never been his biggest fan you know... but in the face of evidence I can be swayed. unfortunately, i did come across another study firmly placing Kobe Bryant at 6th all time. link (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415715)

it.. does seem suspicious though.

let me know your thoughts.

-smak

[MaxPlayer]

He's in the top 12. Does that count?

[chazzy]

This Oscar nonsense is total revisionist and only started after ESPN came out with their list. No titles as the man, one as a sidekick. Next.

[Lebronxrings]

I really like this unbiased thread. Kobe is firmly in the #5 spot. I am a big lakers fan and he has officially been crowned the king of LA. The greatest laker of all time. We have someone that emulated MJs game to a tee and perfected the long range in yo three faces shot.
:roll: :roll: :roll:


shut the fcuk up you idiot

[red1]

I'd put MJ in the #1 spot, then KAJ, Russell, and LeBron in no particular order for spots 2-4.

Shaq, Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe, and Wilt should fill out the rest of the top ten. I'd personally rank Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe, but I'd probably put him ahead of Bird and Magic. So for me, Kobe would be #7.

We won. LeBron > Kobe forever. Everyone knows it. There's no need to keep beating a dead horse and trashing Kobe's legacy. His fanbase is annoying, but that's honestly not his fault.

Let's follow our King's example and "take the high road". That's what winners do. No need to keep throwing shade at the mamba... he is one of the greatest players to ever lace them up.
Agreed on all counts.

To my fellow members of the too many wins fam, show some class. No need to rub it in. I am sure those trolls are already hurting enough from watching the 2nd GOAT shit on the team and players they put all of their hopes in.

[Jameerthefear]

:roll: :roll: :roll:


shut the fcuk up you idiot
:roll: :roll:

[Smoke117]

Kobe is firmly in the #5 spot. I am a big lakers fan and he has officially been crowned the king of LA. The greatest laker of all time. We have someone that emulated MJs game to a tee and perfected the long range in yo three faces shot.

How does someone become this delusional?

[ILLsmak]

what's up man! you might've been gone the past month or so.. but i got you brother. Explained in the following link is a detailed analysis on why Kobe > Hakeem for careers. link (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=414530)

I look forward to your reply!

-smak

"Warmest regards,"

-Smak

[SexSymbol]

to me he's between 5-7

[Mr Feeny]

He's not considered top 10 in any objective neutral forum.
Espn have him at 12th.
Realgm have him at 13th.
Sports illustrated have him at 12th.

Unfortunately from him, nobody besides his fans rate him that highly.
The guy was a 40% career finals scorer and a 25% career finals game 7 scorer. Worse yet,he was a 39% career elimination game scorer.
The higher the stakes, the more he choked.

[scuzzy]

He's not considered top 10 in any objective neutral forum.
Espn have him at 12th.
Realgm have him at 13th.
Sports illustrated have him at 12th.

Unfortunately from him, nobody besides his fans rate him that highly.
The guy was a 40% career finals scorer and a 25% career finals game 7 scorer. Worse yet,he was a 39% career elimination game scorer.
The higher the stakes, the more he choked.

Lakersground (lakers forum) general concensus has him at #9-11

[Timrock]

so because you put "honestly" in the title, are we supposed to assume that this thread wont turn out the same as the last 50 kobe v. LeBron threads?

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't really have it down to a science. Doing so would be dumb imho. You have to just look at every pair of players you want to compare, and evaluate them in their own unique way.

Kobe had some harsh stains on his resume... he missed the playoffs in his prime once, and got bounced in the first round twice.

Hakeem? He missed the playoffs in his prime once, and got bounced in the first round EIGHT times in his career. Eight. You know how many times he made it past the first round? Seven.

No matter how you dice it up, Kobe was more of a winner than Hakeem. Less talented, but perhaps more determined and more competitive.

OR MAYBE.. Hakeem just had it tougher, playing with worse teams... cmon dude

[Mr Feeny]

Lakersground (lakers forum) general concensus has him at #9-11And that's a hotbed of neurosis!:lol
If those clowns and Kobe fanboys have him at 9th-11th, then that pretty much sums it up. Even the most delusional Kobe fanboys recognize his relative inferiority.

[jstern]

I have Kobe at number 12.

[Jasper]

I got Kobe in top 20... He could be around 13 as in unlucky to have Shaq leave him standing as the 'man' :facepalm

[Ca$H]

http://lakers.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Jerry-West-calls-Kobe-Bryant-a-top-10-player-of-all-time-42846392

Jerry West.

[warriorfan]

http://lakers.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Jerry-West-calls-Kobe-Bryant-a-top-10-player-of-all-time-42846392

Jerry West.

Ethered. Thread over.

[Mr Feeny]

http://lakers.247sports.com/Bolt/WATCH-Jerry-West-calls-Kobe-Bryant-a-top-10-player-of-all-time-42846392

Jerry West.

That was in January. Before Kobe embarassed himself on the way out with 35% shooting for the season and before Curry got his 2nd mvp.
Jerry West now undeniably has Curry at 10th and Kobe at 11th:lol

[pauk]

9-10 (Hakeem/Kobe)

[Cone]

That was in January. Before Kobe embarassed himself on the way out with 35% shooting for the season and before Curry got his 2nd mvp.
Jerry West now undeniably has Curry at 10th and Kobe at 11th:lol

You're a good poster man, but cmon. Curry top 10? Dude is at the 35-45 range

Only 2 relevant seasons, and 2 epic fails in the playoffs/finals.

[pauk]

Dont think Oscar/Moses/Jerry/Julius have a case over Kobe.... Hakeem maybe, he had a better 2 year peak considering the circumstances (what he had to work with around him) + performance/impact & was a better overall talent i would say, but Kobe wasnt that far of and had much better longevity, even tho he had also only 2 alpha championship runs his first 3 championship runs as a sidekick were not totally meaningless, in some of those he performed amazing like in 2001 Finals (but that damn prime Shaq was just to damn freakin good)... if i had to draft between the two i would take Hakeem tho, he is the most skilled Center i ever seen & my favorite Center of all time.

Come on, leave Kobe alone, lets show a better example. The Kobe fam never really hated Lebron, deep down inside they just didnt like him for being that damn talented (his game also perhaps wasnt up to their acquired taste, they liked extreme shoot/score-first mentality), but its mostly because of fear & jelousy... you have to understand they were big Kobe fans, had high hopes for him, then this Lebron dude came along in the midst of it immediately started chewing on Kobes superman cape, they knew deep down inside how good Lebron was and what he would be capable of if he ever had better help than Mo Williams or Boobie Gibson.... that was the fear... that just happened & the result was inevitable... the result where Lebron climbed so damn fast up the rankings, immediately next to Kobe in the all-time rankings, then was debatable if he should be ranked higher and now officially he is/should be definitely be ranked higher.... they dont like it naturally....

Kobe was great, top 10... a legend... its just unfortunate a legit top 2-3-4 level talent came around, thats party pooping... which is extremly rare man, you see that level of talent from now on maybe every 30-40 years... top 10 requirements right now are so high we maybe wont be able to see even a top 10 player in some decade or something, wouldnt be surprised.... especially a top 5 player... top 10 right now is historically stacked, the accolades/requirements are getting nastier & nastier every decade...

[BeastMode24]

every nba player and coach.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He's bottom top ten.

[coin24]

This is just sad now.

[Cold soul]

Kobe ranks anywhere from 6-10.

[Ca$H]

every nba player and coach.

Yeah but ISH trolls value this guys opinion more:

http://www.niemanlab.org/images/henryabbott.jpg

[SamuraiSWISH]

Kobe is bottom top ten.
LeBron is top five, dead or alive.

[Ca$H]

Kobe is bottom top ten.
LeBron is top five, dead or alive.

As a former Kobe stan and Bran hater I agree. Bran surpassing Kobe was inevitable because he is more physically gifted. Just much bigger, stronger, faster, and durable. Everyone knew Bran would eventually become a top 10 GOAT even before he ever played in an NBA game. Conversely Kobe was a random 13 overall pick in the draft who came out of nowhere and overachieved.

[SamuraiSWISH]

As a former Kobe stan and Bran hater I agree. Bran surpassing Kobe was inevitable because he is more physically gifted. Just much bigger, stronger, faster, and durable. Everyone knew Bran would eventually become a top 10 GOAT even before he ever played in an NBA game. Conversely Kobe was a random 13 overall pick in the draft who came out of nowhere and overachieved.
I respect Kobe more.

But at this point and it has been this way for awhile, LeBron is both better and greater all time. Easily.

LeBron is not better purely because of physical advantages. That's hyperbole. People like to pretend that Kobe wasn't very athletic and LeBron isn't ridiculously skilled.

[Mr Feeny]

As a former Kobe stan and Bran hater I agree. Bran surpassing Kobe was inevitable because he is more physically gifted. Just much bigger, stronger, faster, and durable. Everyone knew Bran would eventually become a top 10 GOAT even before he ever played in an NBA game. Conversely Kobe was a random 13 overall pick in the draft who came out of nowhere and overachieved.

Glad to know that even the most delusional Kobe stans recognize that Lebron is simply better :applause:

[Ca$H]

I respect Kobe more.

But at this point and it has been this way for awhile, LeBron is both better and greater all time. Easily.

LeBron is not better purely because of physical advantages. That's hyperbole. People like to pretend that Kobe wasn't very athletic and LeBron isn't ridiculously skilled.

Physical Advantages aren't the only reason but being bigger and stronger helps out a great deal. In 2003 Kobe played at 230 pounds but his lower body couldn't really support the additional weight(knee issue). He put up 30/7/6 on 55 TS%. He was also an elite defender. I would have liked to seen peak Kobe play at 230 with no knee injury issues. Peak Kobe's postgame at 230 pounds could of been something special to behold.

[Ca$H]

Glad to know that even the most delusional Kobe stans recognize that Lebron is simply better :applause:

Obviously. It's pretty much impossible for anyone to fail if they had the physical gifts of Bran, Shaq, or Wilt. Only injuries could have stopped guys like that.

[SamuraiSWISH]

It's not physical gift alone as the reason he's better. He's 6'8 and there have been tons of great centers, who are blessed more physically for a sport like basketball, yet LeBron is clearly a greater player than all of them.

[KiiiiNG]

Physical Advantages aren't the only reason but being bigger and stronger helps out a great deal. In 2003 Kobe played at 230 pounds but his lower body couldn't really support the additional weight(knee issue). He put up 30/7/6 on 55 TS%. He was also an elite defender. I would have liked to seen peak Kobe play at 230 with no knee injury issues. Peak Kobe's postgame at 230 pounds could of been something special to behold.
Not only is LeBron bigger, stronger, faster, and more durable, but he also has a much higher bball IQ and feel for the game compared to baldbe. I'd reason he's much more skilled as well. Better ball handler, much better passer, and a better finisher at the rim. LeBron basically murders Kobe in every aspect of the game... better scorer, play-maker, defender, and teammate. Owns Kobe head-to-head too. :oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

Good posts, "coach".

[Ca$H]

Not only is LeBron bigger, stronger, faster, and more durable, but he also has a much higher bball IQ and feel for the game compared to baldbe. I'd reason he's much more skilled as well. Better ball handler, much better passer, and a better finisher at the rim. LeBron basically murders Kobe in every aspect of the game... better scorer, play-maker, defender, and teammate. Owns Kobe head-to-head too. :oldlol:

:biggums: http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/news/hakeem-olajuwon-houston-rockets-post-moves-kobe-bryant-anthony-davis/1jcboker9fbqz12h04gtyuef7a

Hakeem:

[Prometheus]

Not only is LeBron bigger, stronger, faster, and more durable, but he also has a much higher bball IQ and feel for the game compared to baldbe. I'd reason he's much more skilled as well. Better ball handler, much better passer, and a better finisher at the rim. LeBron basically murders Kobe in every aspect of the game... better scorer, play-maker, defender, and teammate. Owns Kobe head-to-head too. :oldlol:

Kobe was more skilled easily, LeBron is just more talented and a lot smarter as a player.

Kobe is probably the most skilled player I've ever seen.

[Dray n Klay]

Kobe was more skilled easily, LeBron is just more talented and a lot smarter as a player.

Kobe is probably the most skilled player I've ever seen.


Being a career 44% FG shooter is 'skilled' ?:roll: :roll:

[Dray n Klay]

What 'skills' does Kobe have that enabled him to miss 60% of his shots throughout his finals career? :oldlol: :banana:

[ILLsmak]

He's not considered top 10 in any objective neutral forum.
Espn have him at 12th.
Realgm have him at 13th.
Sports illustrated have him at 12th.

Unfortunately from him, nobody besides his fans rate him that highly.
The guy was a 40% career finals scorer and a 25% career finals game 7 scorer. Worse yet,he was a 39% career elimination game scorer.
The higher the stakes, the more he choked.

I dunno, bro, I don't like Bron after the quitting vs Boston and every other debacle. I don't like Kobe after blowing it in 04. I may be biased against both of them, cuz quitting/sabotaging is one of the worst things to me.

However, you can't honestly say Kobe isn't top 10. That's even counting Bron breaking into the top 10 during his career. He might be at 10... but he's in there.

Hakeem might have been better, arguably, but Kobe's resume is really good. Just like Bird was prolly better than Bron, but Bron's resume is creeping up on his.

-Smak

[Mr Feeny]

Obviously. It's pretty much impossible for anyone to fail if they had the physical gifts of Bran, Shaq, or Wilt. Only injuries could have stopped guys like that.

So lebron is much better than your idol all time?

Great that's all I wanted :banana:

[Mr Feeny]

I dunno, bro, I don't like Bron after the quitting vs Boston and every other debacle. I don't like Kobe after blowing it in 04. I may be biased against both of them, cuz quitting/sabotaging is one of the worst things to me.

However, you can't honestly say Kobe isn't top 10. That's even counting Bron breaking into the top 10 during his career. He might be at 10... but he's in there.

Hakeem might have been better, arguably, but Kobe's resume is really good. Just like Bird was prolly better than Bron, but Bron's resume is creeping up on his.

-Smak

Sure I can. In fact that's what the majority think. There's a reason most fans have Kobe outside the top 10.

Granted I have no problem putting him even at 11th (higher than realgm and many posters on here would put him), but he's not top 10 for me. Resume includes rings won as a supporting role player. Playing with prime Shaq and scoring 15 ppg on 36% in a a Finals is not an accomplishment in my opinion.

[ArbitraryWater]

I dunno, bro, I don't like Bron after the quitting vs Boston and every other debacle. I don't like Kobe after blowing it in 04. I may be biased against both of them, cuz quitting/sabotaging is one of the worst things to me.

However, you can't honestly say Kobe isn't top 10. That's even counting Bron breaking into the top 10 during his career. He might be at 10... but he's in there.

Hakeem might have been better, arguably, but Kobe's resume is really good. Just like Bird was prolly better than Bron, but Bron's resume is creeping up on his.

-Smak

you a fool

-smak

[knicksman]

Sorry lebron stans but only losers settle for lebron rings. :lol

[ILLsmak]

you a fool

-smak

cuz I think Bron would get sauced by Bird? I dunno, man. There's nothing that shows me he wouldn't. Bron is more athletic, OK, but Larry would psychologically dominate him.

Mental game is the most important aspect of any high level sport. Bron's mental game is decent now, but he's not on that level.

-Smak

[riseagainst]

-Smak

[Prometheus]

Bird might strike a nerve with some trash talk, but LeBron would have that dude leaving at halftime for back surgery

[Mr Feeny]

Bird might strike a nerve with some trash talk, but LeBron would have that dude leaving at halftime for back surgery

:applause:

[SexSymbol]

you a fool

-smak
Bird was better than Bron in every way aside from athletic ability.
Better scorer, better rebounder, better passer, better post player, better clutch player. The list goes on.

[Mr Feeny]

Bird was better than Bron in every way aside from athletic ability.
Better scorer, better rebounder, better passer, better post player, better clutch player. The list goes on.
Unfortunately for you, lethick is consensus top 3. Bird is also top 6.
Kobrick is 12th at best :banana:

[Hoopz2332]

Bird was better than Bron in every way aside from athletic ability.
Better scorer, better rebounder, better passer, better post player, better clutch player. The list goes on.

:biggums:


https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/bird_vs_james2.jpg


Because of the threes, Lebron's TS% is actually 58.1%, well above Bird's 56.4%.

In '79-'80, when Bird came into the league, the average game had 220 possessions/game (counting shots and turnovers). By the time he retired in 1992 that had dropped to 210.

In '03-'04, when Lebron came into the league, the average game had 190 possessions/game. It dropped to 186 by '06 before rising to 197 now.


Bird's basically getting a 12% bump on every stat just because guys were running up and down the floor and letting the ball fly in the 1980s. The game was a lot more wide open.


By 100 possessions, the numbers are:

Lebron: 36.9 points, 9.7 boards, 9.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.1 blocks
Bird: 30.3 points, 12.5 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.0 blocks


Add in the better shooting, and Lebron kills Bird on the advanced stats.

PER: Lebron 27.7, Bird 23.5
Win shares/48: Lebron .240, Bird .203
BPM: Lebron 9.2, Bird 7.2
VORP: Lebron 108.6, Bird 79.7

...lets not even get started on defense

[Mr Feeny]

:biggums:


https://cbsboston.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/bird_vs_james2.jpg


Because of the threes, Lebron's TS% is actually 58.1%, well above Bird's 56.4%.

In '79-'80, when Bird came into the league, the average game had 220 possessions/game (counting shots and turnovers). By the time he retired in 1992 that had dropped to 210.

In '03-'04, when Lebron came into the league, the average game had 190 possessions/game. It dropped to 186 by '06 before rising to 197 now.


Bird's basically getting a 12% bump on every stat just because guys were running up and down the floor and letting the ball fly in the 1980s. The game was a lot more wide open.


By 100 possessions, the numbers are:

Lebron: 36.9 points, 9.7 boards, 9.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.1 blocks
Bird: 30.3 points, 12.5 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.0 blocks


Add in the better shooting, and Lebron kills Bird on the advanced stats.

PER: Lebron 27.7, Bird 23.5
Win shares/48: Lebron .240, Bird .203
BPM: Lebron 9.2, Bird 7.2
VORP: Lebron 108.6, Bird 79.7

...lets not even get started on defense

Is this the most humiliating ownage of another poster in the history of ish?:oldlol:

[ILLsmak]

dudes posting stats. haha.

It's all good. I mean, believe what you wanna believe, but if you watch some of the games Bird played, you would see he was a monster.

The game was faster, but they weren't getting wide open shots like dudes do now. It seems like they were really quick to outlet the ball and fast break.

It also probably cuts a lot of shots out of the game to run as many pick and rolls as they do in the nba now, opposed to back then.

they just pushed it way harder back then. You can say it's 'cuz defense' but I dunno if that's true.

-Smak

[Mr Feeny]

dudes posting stats. haha.

It's all good. I mean, believe what you wanna believe, but if you watch some of the games Bird played, you would see he was a monster.

The game was faster, but they weren't getting wide open shots like dudes do now. It seems like they were really quick to outlet the ball and fast break.

It also probably cuts a lot of shots out of the game to run as many pick and rolls as they do in the nba now, opposed to back then.

they just pushed it way harder back then. You can say it's 'cuz defense' but I dunno if that's true.

-Smak

This is what a Damon Stoudemire fan says when he tries to argue that Damon 》》 Magic johnson:lol


Lebron is not only better than bird but better than every basketball player not names Jordan or jabbar :lebronamazed:


There's a reason he's a consensus top 3 all time :hammertime:

[Laker19]

Why does Kobe get somewhat bashed or discredited for playing with shaq. Does shaq take a hit for playing with Kobe? Does Magic or Kareem for playing with each other? Most all time greats have a stacked team or great role players or number 2 option. Maybe hakeem and dirk are an exception but still. I have kobe in the 7 to 10 range.

[Bankaii]

Why does Kobe get somewhat bashed or discredited for playing with shaq. Does shaq take a hit for playing with Kobe? Does Magic or Kareem for playing with each other? Most all time greats have a stacked team or great role players or number 2 option. Maybe hakeem and dirk are an exception but still. I have kobe in the 7 to 10 range.
Nobody intelligent, aka non-trolls, don't necessary discredit Kobe for his 3 sidekick rings. It's more that Kobetards spam "5 rangz" without taking into context how he won those rings.

Kobe's 5 rings is the main reason he is a top 10 GOAT but when applying context
Shaq's 4 or Lebron's 3 rings > Kobe's 5 rings.

[warriorfan]

Nobody intelligent, aka non-trolls, don't necessary discredit Kobe for his 3 sidekick rings. It's more that Kobetards spam "5 rangz" without taking into context how he won those rings.

Kobe's 5 rings is the main reason he is a top 10 GOAT but when applying context
Shaq's 4 or Lebron's 3 rings > Kobe's 5 rings.

What about in 2011 when LeBron played sidekick to Dwyane Wade and got outscored by Jason Terry?

[Ca$H]

This is what a Damon Stoudemire fan says when he tries to argue that Damon 》》 Magic johnson:lol


Lebron is not only better than bird but better than every basketball player not names Jordan or jabbar :lebronamazed:


There's a reason he's a consensus top 3 all time :hammertime:

What tangible benefit do you receive from an ugly and stupid guy like Bran being a top 3 GOAT? Why is it important to you?

[Big164]

Larry Bird won rings on better guys

Michael Jordan > Durant
Kareem Abdul Jabarr > Duncan
Magic Johnson > Curry
Hakeem Olajuwon > Garnett
Julius Erving > Wade
Moses Malone > Roy Hibbert
Dominique Wilkinson > Wesbrook

[Bankaii]

What about in 2011 when LeBron played sidekick to Dwyane Wade and got outscored by Jason Terry?
What does that have to do with anything dipshit.

Stick to your copy/paste troll posts.

[Bankaii]

Larry Bird won rings on better guys

Michael Jordan > Durant
Kareem Abdul Jabarr > Duncan
Magic Johnson > Curry
Hakeem Olajuwon > Garnett
Julius Erving > Wade
Moses Malone > Roy Hibbert
Dominique Wilkinson > Wesbrook
This is the dumbest post I've seen all week.
And that's EXTREMELY hard to do on this forum.

[Big164]

Larry Bird won rings on better guys

Michael Jordan > Durant
Kareem Abdul Jabarr > Duncan
Magic Johnson > Curry
Hakeem Olajuwon > Garnett
Julius Erving > Wade
Moses Malone > Roy Hibbert
Dominique Wilkinson > Wesbrook
Also ....He didnt need to manufacture super teams to get it done. None of his team mates were top 10 players in the league!

[Lebronxrings]

What tangible benefit do you receive from an ugly and stupid guy like Bran being a top 3 GOAT? Why is it important to you?
why do you have multiple alts, Knicksman?

[TommyGriffin]

why do you have multiple alts, Knicksman?
Why do you guys always accuse of alts? :oldlol:

[Bankaii]

Also ....He didnt need to manufacture super teams to get it done. None of his team mates were top 10 players in the league!
Back to back dumb posts:roll:

McHale was definitely top 10 in the league in the 80s and Parish could easily be argued top 15, and is undoubtably top 25.
Those Celtics teams were one of the most stacked teams of all time.
Bird had back to back 8 point games and they still won convincingly.

[SouBeachTalents]

Also ....He didnt need to manufacture super teams to get it done. None of his team mates were top 10 players in the league!

Lol at McHale never being a top 10 player in the league

[knicksman]

In the end, only a bitch would respect a bitch like bran.

[Doranku]

Larry Bird won rings on better guys

Michael Jordan > Durant
Kareem Abdul Jabarr > Duncan
Magic Johnson > Curry
Hakeem Olajuwon > Garnett
Julius Erving > Wade
Moses Malone > Roy Hibbert
Dominique Wilkinson > Wesbrook

lmao why is Roy Hibbert included with those other guys?

[NBAGOAT]

Larry Bird won rings on better guys

Michael Jordan > Durant
Kareem Abdul Jabarr > Duncan
Magic Johnson > Curry
Hakeem Olajuwon > Garnett
Julius Erving > Wade
Moses Malone > Roy Hibbert
Dominique Wilkinson > Wesbrook

who in the hell is dominique wilkinson :lol. Also you could've picked plenty of other big men besides hibbert. Why not someone like Dwight? Noah's a better option too if you want someone lebron explicitly beat during his championship runs.