Why is Kobe So Far Behind MJ Statistically and Lebron Isnt?

[Round Mound]

There has to be something that Lebron does better to come up close and sometimes beat MJ in advanced stats...while Kobe seems so far behind both MJ and Lebron.


:confusedshrug:

[Dray n Klay]

It's similar to their all-time rankings

[Spurs m8]

Because LeBron isn't a glorified chucker tbh

[TheWinningFam]

Nb4 the ''lebron is the biggest statpadder of all time'' without any evidence of specifically where in games that he stat pads aside from game 4 in 2016 finals.. :lol

[NZStreetBaller]

Because lebron is the better overall player compared to kobe...

As a kobe fan im getting sick of saying this..... yes lebron is better now shut up lol

[KirbyPls]

Because lebron is the better overall player compared to kobe...

As a kobe fan im getting sick of saying this..... yes lebron is better now shut up lol

You're a good poster, period.

[Spurs m8]

How shattered are the Kobe fam that they lose their player at the same time LeBron cements his place as the better player of the 2.

WHAT.A.TIME.

[feyki]

We need more advanced metrics . There's no direct shot metric to measuring impact . Vorp and bpm are worst metrics ever . PER not bad for measuring who domanite the ball , but that's all . Win shares seems good but i don't trust WS for measuring playoffs performances .

Also , there's no advanced metric for measuring opponent factor . This is important as players sheer numbers .

[Mr Feeny]

Because lebron is the better overall player compared to kobe...

As a kobe fan im getting sick of saying this..... yes lebron is better now shut up lol

Says it again:lol
Say it damn it!
:lol

:applause:

[SexSymbol]

Why is LeBron so far behind MJ ring wise and Kobe isn't?

[Mr Feeny]

Why is LeBron so far behind MJ ring wise and Kobe isn't?

Because he had Shaq to carry him while lebron didn't! :lebronamazed:

[SexSymbol]

Because he had Shaq to carry him while lebron didn't! :lebronamazed:
one of the most pleb answers on this board.
You need to do your research weak young man

[Mr Feeny]

I am sad that Lebron has two 41 point games in 3 days in the finals while my idol has never managed to score that much even once in 20 years:cry:

:banana:

[SexSymbol]

:banana:
You're weak, kid.
You have never presented any argument for any of your opinion and you have thousands of posts. Shows just how weak you are

[Prometheus]

one of the most pleb answers on this board.
You need to do your research weak young man

It's the correct answer though. Kobe played with the most dominant center ever! Shaq was putting up better Finals numbers than MJ! You asked why he has more rings than LeBron, and you got the truth (he played with Shaq).

P.S. Phil Jackson

[Mr Feeny]

It's the correct answer though. Kobe played with the most dominant center ever! Shaq was putting up better Finals numbers than MJ! You asked why he has more rings than LeBron, and you got the truth (he played with Shaq).

P.S. Phil Jackson

Goodness!:lol

:hammertime:

[SexSymbol]

It's the correct answer though. Kobe played with the most dominant center ever! Shaq was putting up better Finals numbers than MJ! You asked why he has more rings than LeBron, and you got the truth (he played with Shaq).

P.S. Phil Jackson
It's not, LeBron played with 3rd best shooting guard ever and a top 3-4 pf in the league.
Or are we gonna forget the times when shaq played bad or fouled out or in general when Kobe had to take over games in last minutes.
Look, I know most of you were younger than the amount of finger i have on one hand at that time, but it's stupid to discredit Kobe for the rings when he was putting up superstar numbers.
We don't discredit bron after Kyrie dominated in this year's finals now, or do we?

Having a good team or good players around you doesn't discredit your ring

[Mr Feeny]

It's not, LeBron played with 3rd best shooting guard ever and a top 3-4 pf in the league.
Or are we gonna forget the times when shaq played bad or fouled out or in general when Kobe had to take over games in last minutes.
Look, I know most of you were younger than the amount of finger i have on one hand at that time, but it's stupid to discredit Kobe for the rings when he was putting up superstar numbers.
We don't discredit bron after Kyrie dominated in this year's finals now, or do we?

Having a good team or good players around you doesn't discredit your ring

It's simple enough mupprt.
Shaq = 38 ppg and 17 rpg in some finals while Kobe has 15 ppg on 36% in the same finals:lol

No lebron teammate was ever as good as prime Shaq. There's a reason Shaq is a top 10 player while no lebron teammate during his title runs is a top 10 player :lebronamazed:

Meanwhile, Shaq is atleast 5 tiers above Kobe all time :banana:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Because Kobe was the worse of the two, both in his prime and peak. He might have the career accolades to be in the conversation, but removing team accomplishments and various longevity awards, LeBron and MJ being greater than Kobe is pretty much universal.

[Mr Feeny]

Because Kobe was the worse of the two, both in his prime and peak. He might have the career accolades to be in the conversation, but removing team accomplishments and various longevity awards, LeBron and MJ being greater than Kobe is pretty much universal.

Pretty much. Comparing them as individual players is an insult to Lebron. One is leaps and bounds ahead of the other.

[Lebronxrings]

It's not, LeBron played with 3rd best shooting guard ever and a top 3-4 pf in the league.
Or are we gonna forget the times when shaq played bad or fouled out or in general when Kobe had to take over games in last minutes.
Look, I know most of you were younger than the amount of finger i have on one hand at that time, but it's stupid to discredit Kobe for the rings when he was putting up superstar numbers.
We don't discredit bron after Kyrie dominated in this year's finals now, or do we?

Having a good team or good players around you doesn't discredit your ring
You're the worst poster on this board. Stfu already

[LAZERUSS]

It's the correct answer though. Kobe played with the most dominant center ever! Shaq was putting up better Finals numbers than MJ! You asked why he has more rings than LeBron, and you got the truth (he played with Shaq).

P.S. Phil Jackson


Kobe was the Lakers BEST player against the Spurs in '01, '02, arguably '04 (and easily in the clinching win)..as well as destroying Duncan's Spurs in '08.

Without Kobe, Shaq doesn't get to the Finals in those three seasons, and is down two career rings.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe was the Lakers BEST player against the Spurs in '01, '02, arguably '04 (and easily in the clinching win)..as well as destroying Duncan's Spurs in '08.

Without Kobe, Shaq doesn't get to the Finals in those three seasons, and is down two career rings.

There's really nothing dumber than when people say "without ___ they wouldn't win the title" as an argument. Does making a statement like Shaq wouldn't win without a top 3-5 player in the league really something that has to be said? Kobe was a great player during the 3peat, he was a top 10 player in '00 and a legit superstar in '01 & '02, he was phenomenal in '01. Still doesn't change the fact that Shaq was the better player for the 3 titles

[LAZERUSS]

There's really nothing dumber than when people say "without ___ they wouldn't win the title" as an argument. Does making a statement like Shaq wouldn't win without a top 3-5 player in the league really something that has to be said? Kobe was a great player during the 3peat, he was a top 10 player in '00 and a legit superstar in '01 & '02, he was phenomenal in '01. Still doesn't change the fact that Shaq was the better player for the 3 titles

The issue is... there are those that dismiss Kobe's three rings with Shaq as if he was a bystander. Kobe CARRIED the Lakers in multiple playoff series in that three-peat run, and was a significant factor in nearly every game. Hell, even in the '00 Finals, in which he was just getting his feet wet, it was Kobe who carried the Lakers in a pivotal game four OT win after Shaq had fouled out.

Kobe clearly DESERVED full credit for at least four of his five rings.

[LAZERUSS]

There's really nothing dumber than when people say "without ___ they wouldn't win the title" as an argument. Does making a statement like Shaq wouldn't win without a top 3-5 player in the league really something that has to be said? Kobe was a great player during the 3peat, he was a top 10 player in '00 and a legit superstar in '01 & '02, he was phenomenal in '01. Still doesn't change the fact that Shaq was the better player for the 3 titles

BTW, there is nothing really dumber than using rings as some kind of measurement, either.

MJ didn't win a playoff game in his highest scoring regular season, and in fact, went 1-9 before Pippen/Grant et al showed up. The reality was, he won rings with a roster that won 55 games replacing him with Pete Myers. He won rings shooting .427 and .415 in the Finals forcryingoutloud.

Bird won a ring shooting .419 in the Finals.

Kareem won a ring with a 13-4 .414 Finals (and a game seven of 4 pts on 2-7 shooting.) He also watched from his couch while Magic won a clinching game six on the road.

West LOST game seven in the Finals with 42 points.

Wilt LOST two game sevens in the Finals with 18-27-10 (.875 FG%), and 21-24 (.625 FG%) stat-lines. He also took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss in the EDF's, against a 62-18 Celtics team, with a 30-32 (.800 FG%) game (in a series in which he averaged 30 ppg, 31 rpg, shot .555 from the field, and had 7 bpg.)

To me, the issue is how well the player played. Not the number of rings. Those are TEAM accomplishments.

[tpols]

The issue is... there are those that dismiss Kobe's three rings with Shaq as if he was a bystander. Kobe CARRIED the Lakers in multiple playoff series in that three-peat run, and was a significant factor in nearly every game. Hell, even in the '00 Finals, in which he was just getting his feet wet, it was Kobe who carried the Lakers in a pivotal game four OT win after Shaq had fouled out.

Kobe clearly DESERVED full credit for at least four of his five rings.

Kobe has four bonafide superstar rings. Thats all that matters when it comes to evaluating him as a player. Bringing up shaq to discredit would be like bringing up the fact that lebron team hopped with 4 different HOF players in a weak conference.. it's just trolling.

[LAZERUSS]

Kobe has four bonafide superstar rings. Thats all that matters when it comes to evaluating him as a player. Bringing up shaq to discredit would be like bringing up the fact that lebron team hopped with 4 different HOF players in a weak conference.. it's just trolling.

100% agreed (if we using rings as a measuring stick.)

:cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

There's really nothing dumber than when people say "without ___ they wouldn't win the title" as an argument. Does making a statement like Shaq wouldn't win without a top 3-5 player in the league really something that has to be said? Kobe was a great player during the 3peat, he was a top 10 player in '00 and a legit superstar in '01 & '02, he was phenomenal in '01. Still doesn't change the fact that Shaq was the better player for the 3 titles

One more serious question...

how many rings would Chamberlain have won had he and Russell swapped rosters in the 60's?

And, then, where would you rank him today?

BTW, we have a pretty good example of it in '67.

[Hey Yo]

The issue is... there are those that dismiss Kobe's three rings with Shaq as if he was a bystander. Kobe CARRIED the Lakers in multiple playoff series in that three-peat run, and was a significant factor in nearly every game. Hell, even in the '00 Finals, in which he was just getting his feet wet, it was Kobe who carried the Lakers in a pivotal game four OT win after Shaq had fouled out.

Kobe clearly DESERVED full credit for at least four of his five rings.
Let us know when the league starts handing out the "1st 3 rounds MVP" before the Finals starts.

Unless you are a fan of Kobe, nobody gives a shit what players do in the first 3 rounds, if they end up losing the Finals while not playing up to standards. Or even winning while playing below standards.

It's all about how you play in the Finals.

[Dray n Klay]

Laz, this is Wilt boiled down:


2 for 6



/thread






Btw his '69 Finals is easily the worst Finals performance of any Top 15 player in NBA history

[Hey Yo]

Kobe has four bonafide superstar rings. Thats all that matters when it comes to evaluating him as a player. Bringing up shaq to discredit would be like bringing up the fact that lebron team hopped with 4 different HOF players in a weak conference.. it's just trolling.
Kobe has 2 first option/team captain rings.

[Hey Yo]

The issue is... there are those that dismiss Kobe's three rings with Shaq as if he was a bystander. Kobe CARRIED the Lakers in multiple playoff series in that three-peat run, and was a significant factor in nearly every game. Hell, even in the '00 Finals, in which he was just getting his feet wet, it was Kobe who carried the Lakers in a pivotal game four OT win after Shaq had fouled out.

Kobe clearly DESERVED full credit for at least four of his five rings.
Shaq fouled out with ONLY 2:30 to go in OT and if ya watch the tape...Smits has his way with Shaq not on the floor.

[LAZERUSS]

Laz, this is Wilt boiled down:


2 for 6



/thread






Btw his '69 Finals is easily the worst Finals performance of any Top 15 player in NBA history

12-25 .500 FG% Finals, which included a game seven of 18-27-10 on an .875 FG%?
Oh, and Russell WON a ring in that series with a 10-21 .399 series, with a game seven of 6-21 on a .286 FG%.

See Lebron in '07 and '11. And you gotta love Lebron's must win game four in '07, a one point loss...with his 10-30 shooting from the field, and his 2-6 from the line.
As for '11...he was getting outplayed by Jason Terry (hell, even JJ Barea made him look foolish.)

Kobe in '04 and '08.

And Kareem in '88, and then get back to me.

[Mr Feeny]

12-25 .500 FG% Finals, which included a game seven of 18-27-10 on an .875 FG%?
Oh, and Russell WON a ring in that series with a 10-21 .399 series, with a game seven of 6-21 on a .286 FG%.

See Lebron in '07 and '11. And you gotta love Lebron's must win game four in '07, a one point loss...with his 10-30 shooting from the field, and his 2-6 from the line.
As for '11...he was getting outplayed by Jason Terry (hell, even JJ Barea made him look foolish.)

Kobe in '04 and '08.

And Kareem in '88, and then get back to me.

Hate to break this down to you but lethick has 3 titles as lead dog! :lebronamazed:

And has cemented his legacy as a top 3 player all time! :lebronamazed:

Meanwhile Mr 18 ppg finals scorer is several tiers below.

:hammertime:

Hold that L just like your 2nd idol is holding the door here:lol

http://i63.tinypic.com/evc17c.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe has four bonafide superstar rings. Thats all that matters when it comes to evaluating him as a player. Bringing up shaq to discredit would be like bringing up the fact that lebron team hopped with 4 different HOF players in a weak conference.. it's just trolling.Hate to break this down to you but the finals are the big stage.

15 ppg on 36% don't count :hammertime:

[GimmeThat]

I'm the awkward turtle who wondered whether it had anything to do with heritage

[SouBeachTalents]

BTW, there is nothing really dumber than using rings as some kind of measurement, either.

MJ didn't win a playoff game in his highest scoring regular season, and in fact, went 1-9 before Pippen/Grant et al showed up. The reality was, he won rings with a roster that won 55 games replacing him with Pete Myers. He won rings shooting .427 and .415 in the Finals forcryingoutloud.

Bird won a ring shooting .419 in the Finals.

Kareem won a ring with a 13-4 .414 Finals (and a game seven of 4 pts on 2-7 shooting.) He also watched from his couch while Magic won a clinching game six on the road.

West LOST game seven in the Finals with 42 points.

Wilt LOST two game sevens in the Finals with 18-27-10 (.875 FG%), and 21-24 (.625 FG%) stat-lines. He also took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss in the EDF's, against a 62-18 Celtics team, with a 30-32 (.800 FG%) game (in a series in which he averaged 30 ppg, 31 rpg, shot .555 from the field, and had 7 bpg.)

To me, the issue is how well the player played. Not the number of rings. Those are TEAM accomplishments.

I agree, just counting rings for players is a stupid argument, but typically if you win a title as the consensus best player on your team, then you can use ring count as an argument.