ISH Vote: #5 Player in NBA History (2016 ISH GOAT List)

[RRR3]

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/celtics/media/legends-russell-970x442.jpg

Bill Russell was voted the 4th best player in NBA history by ISH.


The ISH 2016 GOAT List so far


1. Michael Jordan ISH Vote: #1 Player in NBA History (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416515)

2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar ISH Vote: #2 Player in NBA History (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416679)

3. LeBron James ISH Vote: #3 Player in NBA History (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416705)

4. Bill Russell ISH Vote: #4 Player in NBA History (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416758)





Time for ISH to decide number 5.



Rules


1. First player to 20 votes wins. Assuming no player reaches 20 votes within 48 hours, the player with the most votes at that time wins, unless there is a tie in which case, voting will be extended another day (and so on).
2. Voters must have at least one thousand posts.
3. Voters may only vote on ONE account. Alts will not be counted.
4. Serious votes only



Voting Tally

Wilt Chamberlain- 17 (ClipperRevival, SouBeachTalents, FKAri, MP.Trey, Naero, GrapeApe, Prometheus, Plowking, DirkNowitzki41, NBAGOAT, K Xerxes, feyki, Dragonyeuw, Charlie Sheen, dyna, longhornfan1234, WayofWad3*)

Magic Johnson- 16 (Nilocon165, Lebronxrings, JebronLames, Im Still Ballin, InsanityKills, Doranku, raprap, Bankaii, Prime_Shaq, Sarcastic, scuzzy, Mr Feeny, Keno, red1, afrigokcen, Sakkreth)

Shaquille O'Neal- 4 (Kiiing, ArbitraryWater, Young X, aj1987)

Larry Bird- 2 (Fire Colangelo, Smoke117)

Kobe Bryant-1 (SexSymbol)




*Original account accidentally deleted. Had 1000 posts on that account. Making an exception since he's not a troll.

[Nilocon165]

http://prodigyresearch.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/magic-johnson05.jpg

[ClipperRevival]

Wilton Norman Chamberlain.

[Lebronxrings]

Magic


Why the hell was i my vote not counted in the last thread? I'm not an alt, this is my only account.

[JebronLames]

Greatest laker of all time

[RRR3]

Greatest laker of all time
Meaning who? :kobe:


Last thread you voted for Wilt, if you can't be consistent that's a problem :no:

[Im Still Ballin]

Magic

[KiiiiNG]

Shaq

MDE, arguably greatest peak ever, and carried Lakers to a 3peat by himself

[SouBeachTalents]

Wilt

[JebronLames]

Meaning who? :kobe:


Last thread you voted for Wilt, if you can't be consistent that's a problem :no:
Lol magic.
I changed my mind on ilt. He has always been a hero of mine because of all the women he's fuked. Trying to be objective now.

[FKAri]

Wilt

[RRR3]

Lol magic.
I changed my mind on ilt. He has always been a hero of mine because of all the women he's fuked. Trying to be objective now.
:roll: lmao ok

[ArbitraryWater]

Shaq ffs (Shaq or Wilt at this point)

[RRR3]

Threads been getting one-starred since LeBron got 3rd lmao

[TheWinningFam]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/47a1e362c85101fe936cb7c895900c5d/tumblr_na9u24Eqrv1s2kuqpo1_500.gif

[MP.Trey]

Wilt Chamberlain

[Naero]

Wilt Chamberlain.

[RRR3]

Nice to see Wilt getting some love.

[InsanityKills]

Magic.

[Lebronxrings]

Out of curiosity will this GOAT list be only for top 10 players or will it reach a bigger number?

[Doranku]

Magic

[RRR3]

I originally planned to go to 25, and this project can definitely still go to 25, but since I'm going back to college soon I think I'll dip out after 10 as the commish. I need to select a willing person to take over

[Fire Colangelo]

Bird

[raprap]

Magic

[TheWinningFam]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/47a1e362c85101fe936cb7c895900c5d/tumblr_na9u24Eqrv1s2kuqpo1_500.gif

[RRR3]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/47a1e362c85101fe936cb7c895900c5d/tumblr_na9u24Eqrv1s2kuqpo1_500.gif
1000 post minimum :no:

[Bankaii]

Bill Russell being 4th:facepalm
People put too much stock in team accolades.

My vote goes for Magic, again.

[Big164]

Either Kobe or Krusty the Klown.

This list lost all credibility when the alts were allowed to vote #3 in. Yet legit individuals who've been here 5 years cant

[k0kakw0rld]

Timothy Theodore Duncan

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/982388b7b30cd8b5a51b67e716fdbe28d8fce8.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=982388b7b30cd8b5a51b67e716fdbe28d8fc e8.jpg)

Put some respekk on his name for GODsake

5x Champion 3x FMVPs (2x MVPs going B2B)

Tim Duncan holds the record for the most total selections to the All-Defensive Team with 15.

The man is clearly top 5 does it on both ends of the floor. Beat LeBron (Top 3) twice in the finals. Destroyed Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs as well.

Tha fvck you mean, Magic? Bird? Kobe? Shaq? :biggums:

Y'all tripping for real. GOAT PF and TOP 5 DOA.

If Bill Russell (who is massively overrated) is considered top 4, there is no reason in hell why Duncan is not top 5.

[ClipperRevival]

Either Kobe or Krusty the Klown.

This list lost all credibility when the alts were allowed to vote #3 in. Yet legit individuals who've been here 5 years cant

Consistent with Wilt. When the going gets tough, quit. Should've maned up and just write down Wilt.

[Prime_Shaq]

Magic. On his brithday too.

[ClipperRevival]

Bill Russell being 4th:facepalm
People put too much stock in team accolades.

My vote goes for Magic, again.

Your theory would hold weight if Russell didn't have 5 mvp ( same era as Wilt) and 7-9 fmvp. He wasn't no role player. Read up on your history.

[GrapeApe]

Mr. 20,000

[Big164]

Top 10 under rated

Adrian dantley
Bob petit
Tiny archibald
George Mikan
Walt Bellamy
John Havlicek
Tony Parker
Moses Malone
Manu Ginobli
Sam 10 rings Jones

[Young X]

Shaq

[LAZERUSS]

Consistent with Wilt. When the going gets tough, quit. Should've maned up and just write down Wilt.

No sir...that would be your boy Jordan.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4319820&postcount=1


At this point, this was the biggest game of Jordan's career, he's in his prime and he pulls the same sh*t Lebron did. You know how many shots he took in the game? EIGHT. And half of them were in the first quarter. He took just one shot in the fourth quarter and airballed it. It wasn't like the game was out of hand, it was a nip and tuck till the end. Just like the Cavs last night, the Bulls were waiting for MJ to take over, or at least show he cared...but it never came.

it's never about just the number of shots...it's the demeanor. Bulls were up 2-1 in this series and stole home court, Jordan carried them in the game 3 win...didn't have a good game 4 and they lost, teammates didn't play well which was often the case. He comes out next game and plays the same passive way LBJ/KB have been accused of. Floats passes, has weird turnovers where his head doesn't seem in the game, content to just dump off the ball to his teammates and watch them 25 feet away from the hoop, content to have Brad Sellers take late clock jumpers rather than look or demand for the ball. There was defensive pressure sure, it's the bad boy Pistons after all, just like there was defensive pressure any time Lebron plays the Celtics. Great defense or not, you can't watch the game and not come out thinking the same thing you thought last night...wtf was MJ doing?


Even the announcers were puzzled and wondering what the hell was going on...

“he hasn’t really gotten that aggressive look at the offensive end so far”

”it’s almost like Jordan is on cruise control”

”at this point, Jordan is not even looking at the basket. More or less content to be a decoy”

”he’s been as quiet as a mouse, he just hasn’t been looking at the hoop and I think he has to”

QUIT.

Couldn't win shit until he had a roster that could win 55 games and were one horrifically blown call away from perhaps winning a title withOUT him (and basically replacing him with the legendary Pete Myers and his 7 ppg.) Oh, and that roster had 23 missed games between Grant and Pippen, or they would have had HCA and probably a title (they went 5-0 on their home floor in the playoffs.)


And, also Lebron. Not one time, nor two times, nor even three...but...Just ask his OWNER...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/dan_gilbert_says_lebron_james.html


Gilbert feels James quit on the Cavs during their second-round series against the Boston Celtics, who rallied from a 2-1 deficit to eliminate Cleveland.

"He quit," Gilbert said. "Not just in Game 5, but in Games 2, 4 and 6. Watch the tape. The Boston series was unlike anything in the history of sports for a superstar."

The Cavaliers were beaten by 32 points in Game 5. During the game, James appeared distracted and uninterested, often glaring at Cleveland's coaches as the Cavs tried to foul to get back into the game in the second half. James also made some puzzling postgame comments, saying he had "spoiled" people with his play over seven seasons.

Gilbert also said he believes James quit on the Cavs in Game 6 of their series in 2009 against Orlando.

BTW, how about being carried off the floor with ... drum roll please...CRAMPS????!!!!


And then how about RUSSELL against Wilt...

In the '66 EDF's, Chamberlain, as was nearly always the case, had zero help from the teammates. So, in the clinching game five, he slaughtered Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. Alas, with his teammates collectively shooting .352 in that series, and Sam Jones and Havlicek wiping them out...he had no chance.

Fast forward to the '67 EDF's. Now it was RUSSELL who whose team was down 3-1, and facing elimination in game five. Did he rise up and hang a 46-34 game on Wilt? Hell no! He quietly led his team, like a shepard leading sheep to slaughter. He QUIT. He produced a meager FOUR point game...all while Chamberlain was crushing him with 22 first half points en route to a total of 29 (he could have poured in 40 had he needed to)...in a 140-116 game that was close at the half. Wilt not only murdered him in scoring, he also crushed him on the glass, too...outrebounding the helpless Russell by a staggering 36-21 margin. Oh, and he even took time to hand out 13 assists and block 7 shots.

The Russell supporters have never given me any response to that, either.

Even Kareem packed it in in the '80 Finals. He suffered a sprained ankle in the game five...you know...the type of injury that was FAR less than the leg injuries Chamberlain suffered in the '68 EDF's, and then in the '70 season. What did KAJ do...he watched the game from his couch. And of course, Magic put up a game for the ages. In fact, it was the most decisive win of the series.

BTW, Kareem missed CHUNKS of games with two separate broken wrists. CHUNKS (16 and 20 games.) Meanwhile, Chamberlain not only PLAYED a clinching game five of the '72 Finals with a FRACTURED wrist, he DOMINATED the game (24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds and 8 blocks.)


QUITTERS...ALL of them.

[Prometheus]

The man who FINALLY ended the reign of #4 after 8 chips in a row. The man who would have won several more chips himself had #4 not existed. The man who owns the record books. The big dipper

[LAZERUSS]

Your theory would hold weight if Russell didn't have 5 mvp ( same era as Wilt) and 7-9 fmvp. He wasn't no role player. Read up on your history.

Chamberlain held a 7-2 First Team All-NBA margin over Russell in their 10 years in the league together. Not only that, but he either outplayed him, or downright dominated in the vast majority of the 143 career H2H's, including their 49 playoff H2H's.

And please don't bring up rings.

Jordan won exactly ONE playoff GAME before Pippen and Grant arrived. Couldn't even win a playoff game in his highest scoring season, either. He was shut-out by Bird, and Dumars held a 3-1 series advantage over him. He didn't win shit until he the best supporting cast in the watered down 90's. A roster, that despite being injury-riddled, could win 55 games with Pete Myers replacing him. In fact, they were one blown call away from perhaps winning the title...withOUT Jordan. And then when Jordan came back, he STILL couldn't win a ring. The Bulls had to add yet ANOTHER HOFer to their roster in order to overcome MJ's horrific shooting in his last three Finals.

KAJ? How come a PRIME Kareem, in his 10 years before Magic arrived...could only go to TWO Finals, and only won ONE ring? You know...in the decade in which teams were winning titles with 50-32, 48-34, and even 44-38 records...and teams as bad as 40-42 were going to the Finals. Hell, he didn't win titles with a 53-29 record (the best in the league...and they were then SWEPT by a 49-33 team)[ a 56-26 team (wiped out by Reed's Knicks...including a 132-96 clinching blowout win in which KAJ waved the white flag); a 59-23 team with HCA edge (and outplayed by Cowens in a game seven blowout loss); a 60-22 team (stunned by a 47-35 team in the first round, and in a series in which he shot .428 from the field); and even a 63-19 team, in which a 35 year old Chamberlain, by virtually ALL accounts, outplayed him. He also was blownout with casts that had Wilkes, Nixon, Hudson, and Dantley...TWO years in a row, by Sonics teams that had ONE borderline HOFer. Hell, right in the middle of the decade, when weak teams were winning titles, he and his teams MISSED the playoffs...TWICE in a row!

And yet, a past-his-prime KAH would win FIVE rings. How come? Oh wait...it was pure MAGIC.


BTW, none other than John Wooden claimed that had Russell and Wilt swapped rosters, that it would have been WILT holding all those rings.

[Sarcastic]

The only player that has a team named for him, that happens to play in the state of Florida.

Magic

[Bankaii]

Your theory would hold weight if Russell didn't have 5 mvp ( same era as Wilt) and 7-9 fmvp. He wasn't no role player. Read up on your history.
Winning 5 MVPs in a weak era holds no real weight.
And although it didn't exist back then and he'd have quite a few, Russell doesn't not have 7-9 FMVPs.

I never said he was a role player. But of all the time 10 GOATs he's the worst individually.

And don't say anything about history. You've been exposed about 90s basketball many times, and that's an era you claim to have seen live

[LAZERUSS]

Top 10 under rated

Adrian dantley
Bob petit
Tiny archibald
George Mikan
Walt Bellamy
John Havlicek
Tony Parker
Moses Malone
Manu Ginobli
Sam 10 rings Jones

Moses "the Kareem Killer" Malone. Absolutely OWNED KAJ in their 40 career H2H's. Hell, he beat him to a pulp in the first round of the '81 playoffs, taking a 40-42 team past KAJ's heavily favored Lakers...and then destroyed him in a sweeping series win in the '83 Finals. A career 6-1 playoff record against Kareem.



And even Russell, himself, acknowledged that without Big Game Jones...that he would have had SIX less rings...

http://www.celtic-nation.com/interviews/sam_jones/sam_jones_page1.htm


“In the years that I played with the Celtics,” says Russell, “in terms of total basketball skills, Sam Jones was the most skillful player that I ever played with. At one point, we won a total of eight consecutive NBA championships, and six times during that run we asked Sam to take the shot that meant the season. If he didn’t hit the shot we were finished – we were going home empty-handed. He never missed.”

[GrapeApe]

No sir...that would be your boy Jordan.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4319820&postcount=1



QUIT.

Couldn't win shit until he had a roster that could win 55 games and were one horrifically blown call away from perhaps winning a title withOUT him (and basically replacing him with the legendary Pete Myers and his 7 ppg.) Oh, and that roster had 23 missed games between Grant and Pippen, or they would have had HCA and probably a title (they went 5-0 on their home floor in the playoffs.)


And, also Lebron. Not one time, nor two times, nor even three...but...Just ask his OWNER...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/dan_gilbert_says_lebron_james.html



And then how about RUSSELL against Wilt...

In the '66 EDF's, Chamberlain, as was nearly always the case, had zero help from the teammates. So, in the clinching game five, he slaughtered Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. Alas, with his teammates collectively shooting .352 in that series, and Sam Jones and Havlicek wiping them out...he had no chance.

Fast forward to the '67 EDF's. Now it was RUSSELL who whose team was down 3-1, and facing elimination in game five. Did he rise up and hang a 46-34 game on Wilt? Hell no! He quietly led his team, like a shepard leading sheep to slaughter. He QUIT. He produced a meager FOUR point game...all while Chamberlain was crushing him with 22 first half points en route to a total of 29 (he could have poured in 40 had he needed to)...in a 140-116 game that was close at the half. Wilt not only murdered him in scoring, he also crushed him on the glass, too...outrebounding the helpless Russell by a staggering 36-21 margin. Oh, and he even took time to hand out 13 assists and block 7 shots.

The Russell supporters have never given me any response to that, either.

Even Kareem packed it in in the '80 Finals. He suffered a sprained ankle in the game five...you know...the type of injury that was FAR less than the leg injuries Chamberlain suffered in the '68 EDF's, and then in the '70 season. What did KAJ do...he watched the game from his couch. And of course, Magic put up a game for the ages. In fact, it was the most decisive win of the series.


QUITTERS...ALL of them.

Chernobyl.

[LAZERUSS]

RRR3, sorry to hijack your topic, but keep in mind, that it was not ME who started posting garbage.

As for your polling...I applaud the effort...but sorry man...any list that doesn't have Wilt at at least #2, has no merit to me.

[scuzzy]

Magic

[ClipperRevival]

Damn Laz, you haven't changed. Was hoping for a bit more objectivity from you after your hiatus (welcome back). But you have your mind set that Wilt is the GOAT and anyone saying otherwise, you attack. You have taken aim at MJ, KAJ and Russell to no end with baseless attacks.

He had the talent to be the GOAT but didn't have the heart. It's that simple. Peaking at maybe the highest level ever isn't the same as having the GOAT career. And GOAT career means winning a lot of rings as "the man." Your boy has 2 rings and 2 fmvp. He could've done more. In your heart you know this but it kills you to believe in his greatness so much but deep inside, knowing he lacked the most fundamental human element in human competition: killer instinct. Russell had it and Wilt didn't and you know this.

Wilt had the GOAT peak ever (sheer numbers wise), holds so many NBA records and had the talent to be the best ever but you can't ignore what actually happened when it mattered most. Be glad that he will be voted top 4 ever in 2016.

[LAZERUSS]

Damn Laz, you haven't changed. Was hoping for a bit more objectivity from you after your hiatus (welcome back). But you have your mind set that Wilt is the GOAT and anyone saying otherwise, you attack. You have taken aim at MJ, KAJ and Russell to no end with baseless attacks.

He had the talent to be the GOAT but didn't have the heart. It's that simple. Peaking at maybe the highest level ever isn't the same as having the GOAT career. And GOAT career means winning a lot of rings as "the man." Your boy has 2 rings and 2 fmvp. He could've done more. In your heart you know this but it kills you to believe in his greatness so much but deep inside, knowing he lacked the most fundamental human element in human competition: killer instinct. Russell had it and Wilt didn't and you know this.

Wilt had the GOAT peak ever (sheer numbers wise), holds so many NBA records and had the talent to be the best ever but you can't ignore what actually happened when it mattered most. Be glad that he will be voted top 4 ever in 2016.

So, you honestly believe that Wilt should have won titles from '60 thru '65, right? With pathetic rosters, and players who, aside from Arizin, were pure flops with and without Chamberlain? While Russell was winning six rings in that span with rosters of seven to nine HOFers?

And even in '66, the Sixers were no match for Boston's talent.

There were only THREE seasons in the decade of the 60's in which Chamberlain had rosters the equal of Russell's (and none of the matched Boston's depth BTW)...and in one of them...as you KNOW...the entire roster was DECIMATED by injuries in the EDF's, including a serious leg injury to Chamberlain himself...and they still lost a game seven by only four points. In another, '69, Wilt's COACH, with his own personal hatred for Wilt, COST his team the title (in fact, he left Chamberlain on the bench in the last five minutes of game seven in a two point loss.) The other team...Chamberlain's '67 Sixers, which FINALLY EQUALED Russell's, and was healthy. And the result? A 4-1 series wipeout of the eight-time defending (and 60-21) Celtics.

If Wilt should have won rings from '60 to '65, then surely Jordan should have won rings from '85 thru '90...and Kareem should have won far more in the decade of the 70's, than ONE.

The reality was, Chamberlain nearly upset Russell's heavily favored Celtics on several occasions in the early 60's, and with rosters that were, player-for-player, FAR inferior to Russell's.

That is SIX rings right there. Then factor in his '66 teammates getting killed by Russell's in '66' his '68 team wiped out by injuries; and his '69 so poorly coached that the coach preferred losing over letting Wilt carry them to a title...and that is three more. Not to mention his overwhelming domination of Russell and the Celtics in the '67 EDF's, en route to a title.


As for HEART.

Chamberlain averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and shot .540 from the field (in an era in which post-seasons were shooting .435), with likely at least 7-8 bpg...and all while reducing his HOF peers to bricklayers...in his 23 must win games.

In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find a handful of games, in the 37 must-win, or series clinching games in which he played, in which his opposing center outplayed him. Most all of them in the HOF BTW.

Killer instinct? You mean averaging 37 ppg in his 13 must win games in his "scoring seasons?" Including the only THREE 50+ point must win games by a GOAT? And must win games of 46 in another series against Russell, and a must win Finals game of 45-27 (on 20-27 shooting.)

You really need to do some real RESEARCH before posting your garbage.

[plowking]

Wilt Chamberlain.

Can't believe how overrated Magic is.

[ClipperRevival]

So, you honestly believe that Wilt should have won titles from '60 thru '65, right? With pathetic rosters, and players who, aside from Arizin, were pure flops with and without Chamberlain? While Russell was winning six rings in that span with rosters of seven to nine HOFers?

And even in '66, the Sixers were no match for Boston's talent.

There were only THREE seasons in the decade of the 60's in which Chamberlain had rosters the equal of Russell's (and none of the matched Boston's depth BTW)...and in one of them...as you KNOW...the entire roster was DECIMATED by injuries in the EDF's, including a serious leg injury to Chamberlain himself...and they still lost a game seven by only four points. In another, '69, Wilt's COACH, with his own personal hatred for Wilt, COST his team the title (in fact, he left Chamberlain on the bench in the last five minutes of game seven in a two point loss.) The other team...Chamberlain's '67 Sixers, which FINALLY EQUALED Russell's, and was healthy. And the result? A 4-1 series wipeout of the eight-time defending (and 60-21) Celtics.

If Wilt should have won rings from '60 to '65, then surely Jordan should have won rings from '85 thru '90...and Kareem should have won far more in the decade of the 70's, than ONE.

The reality was, Chamberlain nearly upset Russell's heavily favored Celtics on several occasions in the early 60's, and with rosters that were, player-for-player, FAR inferior to Russell's.

That is SIX rings right there. Then factor in his '66 teammates getting killed by Russell's in '66' his '68 team wiped out by injuries; and his '69 so poorly coached that the coach preferred losing over letting Wilt carry them to a title...and that is three more. Not to mention his overwhelming domination of Russell and the Celtics in the '67 EDF's, en route to a title.


As for HEART.

Chamberlain averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and shot .540 from the field (in an era in which post-seasons were shooting .435), with likely at least 7-8 bpg...and all while reducing his HOF peers to bricklayers...in his 23 must win games.

In fact, you would be hard-pressed to find a handful of games, in the 37 must-win, or series clinching games in which he played, in which his opposing center outplayed him. Most all of them in the HOF BTW.

Killer instinct? You mean averaging 37 ppg in his 13 must win games in his "scoring seasons?" Including the only THREE 50+ point must win games by a GOAT? And must win games of 46 in another series against Russell, and a must win Finals game of 45-27 (on 20-27 shooting.)

You really need to do some real RESEARCH before posting your garbage.

Like I said, you are convinced he's the GOAT and you won't accept any other alternative despite the realities. The guy was 7'1" without shoes and about 310 lbs at his heaviest playing weight. He was one of the few human beings in history to be able to stand next to Shaq and match or exceed his size. He was that big and that athletic. He was supposed to dominate every time he stepped on the court. Even Russell gave up 3-4 inches and 30-60 lbs.

But he lacked "it". MJ and Russell had it. That is why are top 3 GOAT.

[Mr Feeny]

It's Magic for me. He was just a better player than Wilt as far as I'm concerned.

[ArbitraryWater]

going with whoever has the better chance between shaq/wilt.. OP I think thats fair since Im undecided who it should be between them anyway, but I definitely know Id like either of them over Magic.

[DirkNowitzki41]

Wilt

[k0kakw0rld]

The only player that has a team named for him, that happens to play in the state of Florida.

Magic
Duncan > Magic

[Keno]

magic

[Mr Feeny]

going with whoever has the better chance between shaq/wilt.. OP I think thats fair since Im undecided who it should be between them anyway, but I definitely know Id like either of them over Magic.

Why don't you like Magic?

[LostCause]

So, you honestly believe that Wilt should have won titles from '60 thru '65, right? With pathetic rosters, and players who, aside from Arizin, were pure flops with and without Chamberlain? While Russell was winning six rings in that span with rosters of seven to nine HOFers?

Wilt's rosters weren't that bad.

The 61 Warriors had 4 Hall of Famers (Wilt, Arizin, Gola and Rodgers. Each of them multiple time all stars. Since when are All-Stars/HOFers flops?). That team was swept in the first round by the Nationals (Who only had 2 Hall of Famers). The Nationals also had a worse regular season record than Wilts group


If Wilt should have won rings from '60 to '65, then surely Jordan should have won rings from '85 thru '90

How is this even an accurate comparison? List one season from 85-90 where Jordan had 4 Hall of Famers on his team, including himself

[Mr Feeny]

Wilt's rosters weren't that bad.

The 61 Warriors had 4 Hall of Famers (Wilt, Arizin, Gola and Rodgers. Each of them multiple time all stars. Since when are All-Stars/HOFers flops?). That team was swept in the first round by the Nationals (Who only had 2 Hall of Famers). The Nationals also had a worse regular season record than Wilts group



How is this even an accurate comparison? List one season from 85-90 where Jordan had 4 Hall of Famers on his team, including himselfWilt was singlehandedly losing finals. In the 1969 finals, West averaged 40 ppg and got 42 in game 7 as he got finals mvp. They didn't win unfortunately because Wilt missed more free throws than the final spread.
He also ended the series only the 8th highest scorer in the series.

West can't carry that type of scrub play:applause:

[Bankaii]

Wilt Chamberlain.

Can't believe how overrated Magic is.
The irony of this post:oldlol:

[aj1987]

Shaq ffs (Shaq or Wilt at this point)
:applause: :applause:

Shaq. The MDE. 3 straight PO runs of 30/15/3/1/3 on 58%. 3 straight Finals of 35/15/3/1/3. Career averaged of 24/11/3/1/2 on 58 in the RS and 24/12/3/1/2 on 56% in the PO's.

1x MVP (robbed in '01)
3x NBA Champ
3x FMVP

Multiple All-NBA and All-Def selections.

Top 5.

[NBAGOAT]

Wilt. imo some order of wilt, magic, shaq should get the next 3 spots and looks like it'll turn that way based on how the voting is going.

[K Xerxes]

Wilt and Russell should be next to each other near the top, regardless of order. So wilt it is

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt's rosters weren't that bad.

The 61 Warriors had 4 Hall of Famers (Wilt, Arizin, Gola and Rodgers. Each of them multiple time all stars. Since when are All-Stars/HOFers flops?). That team was swept in the first round by the Nationals (Who only had 2 Hall of Famers). The Nationals also had a worse regular season record than Wilts group



How is this even an accurate comparison? List one season from 85-90 where Jordan had 4 Hall of Famers on his team, including himself

"HOFers?"

Wilt played with Arizin, a legitimate HOFer, for the last three seasons of Arizin's career. BTW, Arizin's stats suffered little,...albeit, he was awful in the post-season in that '61 season (.328) and '62 post-season (.375.)

Guy Rodgers was just recently inducted into the Hall...some 45 years after he last played a game. And he was the Ricky Rubio of his era...a good playmaker, but alas, the most inefficient shooter of his era...especially in the post-season. The problem with him was...he always thought he could shoot...so he kept shooting. And later in his career, after Wilt, he was even taking 20 FGAs per game! You want an example of how much he contributed to Wilt's teams? His career playoff HIGH FG% was .375 and that wasn't with Wilt. With Chamberlain it was .368! And without looking it up, I suspect that he had series' under .300...at least one for sure, in the '64 Finals, when he shot .256 (BTW, rookie Nate Thurmond was on that team, and was a part-timer, playing out of position...and he shot .326 in the '64 Finals...Wilt's two HOFers!) Rodgers has no business in the HOF.

Tom Gola...a HOFer? The man had a career average of 11 ppg, 8 rpg, and shot .430 from the floor. However, he may very well have been the worst post-season shooter by a HOFer in NBA history. Get this... a career ... .336 post-season shooter!

However, I would like to point out that aside from Arizin, who was a legitimate HOFer, and whose numbers only declined slightly, even in Wilt's 50 ppg season...the rest of that list played their best in their careers WITH Chamberlain.

Also, Wilt and Russell each played alongside Willie Naulls (washed up for both), and Mel Counts, and BOTH played better with Chamberlain.

Incidently, the HOF is NOT an NBA HOF, but rather a BASKETBALL HOF. If it were strictly an NBA HOF, many players, including Rodgers, and Gola, as well as KC Jones and FRank Ramsey, would probably not be in it.

In any case, Russell played along side many more HOFers, and for longer stretches, than Chamberlain ever did. Furthermore, aside from Arizin, none of those players from '60 thur '65 on Wilt's rosters ever approached 20 ppg in their careers with, or without Wilt. Meanwhile, Russell's rosters were littered with 20+ ppg scorers throoughout their careers, including guys like Havlicek and Bailey Howell, who had multiple 20+ seasons without Russell (in fact Havlicek had seasons as high as 28 and 29 ppg without Russell.


As for the '61 series against the Nats...Chamberlain averaged 37 ppg, 23 rpg, and shot .467 from the floor...in a post-season that shot .403. Wilt's teammates? Collectively shot .332. Those "HOFers?" Rodgers shot .368, Arizin shot .328, and Gola shot .206 (not a misprint.)

With virtually no help, Chamberlain still carried that team to three close losses in that series. Of course, he was single-handedly carrying rosters almost every year from '60 thru '65. Oh, and it was never Russell vs. Wilt, either. It was the CELTICS vs. Wilt. Even Tom Heinsohn and KC Jones mentioned that they used a TEAM effort to try to contain Chamberlain.

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.

[feyki]

Wilt Chamberlain.

Can't believe how overrated Magic is.

Exactly , outside of MJ,Kobe,LBJ ; most overrated player ever .



Wilt Chamberlain .

[ArbitraryWater]

Why has most of the Bron fam decided to go all in for Magic? :lol

Guys please...

Looks like Wilt has a better chance than Shaq, so put me down for him.

Feeny I'm on the road at the moment.. I'll look to respond another time (I do like Magic, but compared to Shaq/Wilt? Cmon)

[SouBeachTalents]

"HOFers?"

Wilt played with Arizin, a legitimate HOFer, for the last three seasons of Arizin's career. BTW, Arizin's stats suffered little,...albeit, he was awful in the post-season in that '61 season (.328) and '62 post-season (.375.)

Guy Rodgers was just recently inducted into the Hall...some 45 years after he last played a game. And he was the Ricky Rubio of his era...a good playmaker, but alas, the most inefficient shooter of his era...especially in the post-season. The problem with him was...he always thought he could shoot...so he kept shooting. And later in his career, after Wilt, he was even taking 20 FGAs per game! You want an example of how much he contributed to Wilt's teams? His career playoff HIGH FG% was .375 and that wasn't with Wilt. With Chamberlain it was .368! And without looking it up, I suspect that he had series' under .300...at least one for sure, in the '64 Finals, when he shot .256 (BTW, rookie Nate Thurmond was on that team, and was a part-timer, playing out of position...and he shot .326 in the '64 Finals...Wilt's two HOFers!) Rodgers has no business in the HOF.

Tom Gola...a HOFer? The man had a career average of 11 ppg, 8 rpg, and shot .430 from the floor. However, he may very well have been the worst post-season shooter by a HOFer in NBA history. Get this... a career ... .336 post-season shooter!

However, I would like to point out that aside from Arizin, who was a legitimate HOFer, and whose numbers only declined slightly, even in Wilt's 50 ppg season...the rest of that list played their best in their careers WITH Chamberlain.

Also, Wilt and Russell each played alongside Willie Naulls (washed up for both), and Mel Counts, and BOTH played better with Chamberlain.

Incidently, the HOF is NOT an NBA HOF, but rather a BASKETBALL HOF. If it were strictly an NBA HOF, many players, including Rodgers, and Gola, as well as KC Jones and FRank Ramsey, would probably not be in it.

In any case, Russell played along side many more HOFers, and for longer stretches, than Chamberlain ever did. Furthermore, aside from Arizin, none of those players from '60 thur '65 on Wilt's rosters ever approached 20 ppg in their careers with, or without Wilt. Meanwhile, Russell's rosters were littered with 20+ ppg scorers throoughout their careers, including guys like Havlicek and Bailey Howell, who had multiple 20+ seasons without Russell (in fact Havlicek had seasons as high as 28 and 29 ppg without Russell.


As for the '61 series against the Nats...Chamberlain averaged 37 ppg, 23 rpg, and shot .467 from the floor...in a post-season that shot .403. Wilt's teammates? Collectively shot .332. Those "HOFers?" Rodgers shot .368, Arizin shot .328, and Gola shot .206 (not a misprint.)

With virtually no help, Chamberlain still carried that team to three close losses in that series. Of course, he was single-handedly carrying rosters almost every year from '60 thru '65. Oh, and it was never Russell vs. Wilt, either. It was the CELTICS vs. Wilt. Even Tom Heinsohn and KC Jones mentioned that they used a TEAM effort to try to contain Chamberlain.

Even though his scoring dropped every single postseason, which he should receive at least some criticism for, I can't put too much blame on Wilt not winning a title on the Warriors. He was frequently playing against a far superior Celtics team, and pushed them razor thin 7 game series on multiple occasions. '66-'70 though, Wilt really does deserve criticism for those defeats, and it REALLY hurt his case for GOAT he only won 1 title in that span.

In '66, his first full season on the 76ers, they actually finished with a better record than the Celtics, and had a first round bye while Boston had to win 2 elimination games just to get out of the first round. In typical Wilt fashion, his numbers dipped going from averaging 34/25/5 on 54% in the regular season to 28/30/3 on 51% in the playoffs in a 5 game defeat to Boston, including just 23.5 ppg through the first 4 games of the Celtics series, before scoring 46 in the Celtics Game 5 clincher.

In '68 his team blew a 3-1 lead a la the Warriors this year, dropping Games 5 & 7 at home, with Wilt scoring just 14 points in Game 7, making 4 shots from the field all game.

In the '69 Finals his team blew a 2-0 & 3-2 lead, as Wilt went from averaging 21 ppg in the regular season to 12 ppg in the Finals, one of the biggest drop offs in history up there with 2011 LeBron & Curry this year. With a chance to go up 3-1 in Game 4, Wilt scored 8 points in a 1 point defeat, and again With a chance to clinch the title in Game 6, Wilt scored 8 points, and somehow lost a Game 7 at home with West dropping a 40 point triple double and winning FMVP in a series LOSS.

Then again in the '70 Finals, he had one monster game in Game 6 with Reed out, and proceeded to average just shy of 20 ppg the games Reed played in. And with his opponent on 1 leg and barely able to move in Game 7, Wilt scores 21 points, a decent amount coming in garbage time to lose a Game 7 for the third year in a row, including back to back Finals Game 7's.

If you can't put ANY blame on Wilt for failing to win a title from '68-'70, including losing Game 7 THREE seasons in a row, then you simply aren't being fair with your evaluations.

[Dragonyeuw]

Wilt

[LAZERUSS]

Even though his scoring dropped every single postseason, which he should receive at least some criticism for, I can't put too much blame on Wilt not winning a title on the Warriors. He was frequently playing against a far superior Celtics team, and pushed them razor thin 7 game series on multiple occasions. '66-'70 though, Wilt really does deserve criticism for those defeats, and it REALLY hurt his case for GOAT he only won 1 title in that span.

In '66, his first full season on the 76ers, they actually finished with a better record than the Celtics, and had a first round bye while Boston had to win 2 elimination games just to get out of the first round. In typical Wilt fashion, his numbers dipped going from averaging 34/25/5 on 54% in the regular season to 28/30/3 on 51% in the playoffs in a 5 game defeat to Boston, including just 23.5 ppg through the first 4 games of the Celtics series, before scoring 46 in the Celtics Game 5 clincher.

In '68 his team blew a 3-1 lead a la the Warriors this year, dropping Games 5 & 7 at home, with Wilt scoring just 14 points in Game 7, making 4 shots from the field all game.

In the '69 Finals his team blew a 2-0 & 3-2 lead, as Wilt went from averaging 21 ppg in the regular season to 12 ppg in the Finals, one of the biggest drop offs in history up there with 2011 LeBron & Curry this year. With a chance to go up 3-1 in Game 4, Wilt scored 8 points in a 1 point defeat, and again With a chance to clinch the title in Game 6, Wilt scored 8 points, and somehow lost a Game 7 at home with West dropping a 40 point triple double and winning FMVP in a series LOSS.

Then again in the '70 Finals, he had one monster game in Game 6 with Reed out, and proceeded to average just shy of 20 ppg the games Reed played in. And with his opponent on 1 leg and barely able to move in Game 7, Wilt scores 21 points, a decent amount coming in garbage time to lose a Game 7 for the third year in a row, including back to back Finals Game 7's.

If you can't put ANY blame on Wilt for failing to win a title from '68-'70, including losing Game 7 THREE seasons in a row, then you simply aren't being fair with your evaluations.

I can, and have, blown up EVERYONE of those "failures" from '66 thru '70. I don't have time right now, but I will get back to you later on tonight.

[Mr Feeny]

I can, and have, blown up EVERYONE of those "failures" from '66 thru '70. I don't have time right now, but I will get back to you later on tonight.

18 ppg in finals while being carried to his 2 rings.
Thats why he's tiers below his master lethick :lebronamazed:

[k0kakw0rld]

OP ignoring my vote on purpose. I said TIM DUNCAN

[Big164]

Wilt lost the 69 and 70 finals on purpose just to Spite Elgin Baylor. He hated the man that much.

Wilt even bragged in his book that the 33 game win streak started the day Elgin Baylor left the team. I wouldn't put it past wilt at all

[aj1987]

Wilt lost the 69 and 70 finals on purpose just to Spite Elgin Baylor. He hated the man that much.

Wilt even bragged in his book that the 33 game win streak started the day Elgin Baylor left the team. I wouldn't put it past wilt at all
Refer to this post, you midget bitch:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12566476&postcount=24

Shaq is infinitely better than Chokerlain. Not even a comparison. Chokerlain should be compared to the 2nd tier C's.

[Mr Feeny]

Wilt lost the 69 and 70 finals on purpose just to Spite Elgin Baylor. He hated the man that much.

Wilt even bragged in his book that the 33 game win streak started the day Elgin Baylor left the team. I wouldn't put it past wilt at all

Like the Wade stan said, Shaq was simply much more dominant than Wilt was when it came to the playoffs and finals.

[Big164]

Shaq is adorable but Wilt actually won rings on actual GOAT centers.
http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-21-2015/bWYe9P.gif
Kareem > Hakeem
Russell > Dikembe
Thurmond > Todd MacCulloch:facepalm
http://rs304.pbsrc.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/Rivalry/02%20Stilt%20VS%20Alcindor/2-1.gif~c200
http://dsz7vodgjx60a.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/bil-wilt2.jpg

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq was infinitely better in his title runs than Wilt was in his though.

While Shaq was averaging 38 ppg and 17 rpg in some of his Finals, Wilt was getting 14 ppg.

[aj1987]

Shaq is adorable but Greer and Goodrich actually won rings on actual GOAT centers.
Good for them. Shaq still shits on Chokerlain.


Kareem > Hakeem
Russell = Wallace
Thurmond << DeAndre
[
Agreed. :applause: :applause:

You bitches post Chokerlain's highlights, but I'm just going to post ONE video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtmXpAeWeH4

Dude hit everything from hooks to jumpshots in that video. None of his blocks were uncalled goaltends like Chokerlain's either. Look at the defensive attention he drew as well. Those passes? Damn! He didn't need to pad his stats like Chokerlain either. He got them within the flow of the game. Shaq is the 2nd GOAT C behind KAJ and the only reason is longevity.

If you guys are thinking I'm cherrypicking videos, I'm posting the FIRST video that pops up when you search for "Shaq full highlights".

Show me ONE game in which Chokerlain performed like that. Dat spin move at 6:50 doe... :eek:

[LAZERUSS]

Good for them. Shaq still shits on Chokerlain.


Agreed. :applause: :applause:

You bitches post Chokerlain's highlights, but I'm just going to post ONE video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mtmXpAeWeH4

Dude hit everything from hooks to jumpshots in that video. None of his blocks were uncalled goaltends like Chokerlain's either. Look at the defensive attention he drew as well. Those passes? Damn! He didn't need to pad his stats like Chokerlain either. He got them within the flow of the game. Shaq is the 2nd GOAT C behind KAJ and the only reason is longevity.

If you guys are thinking I'm cherrypicking videos, I'm posting the FIRST video that pops up when you search for "Shaq full highlights".

Show me ONE game in which Chokerlain performed like that. Dat spin move at 6:50 doe... :eek:

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I can't help but bust up. Playing against the 35 year old "Cement Shoe" Dutchman!!!! And "range" ???? 5ft jumper with no one on him. Just hilarious.


Chamberlain was FEASTING against DORKS like the Dutchman in his post-seasons...in the few series in which he actually faced a non-HOF center. MULTIPLE 40-50+ playoff games against the Clods like Smits, and MacCulloch (and Dampier.)

Now, find me footage of just ONE of Wilt's 122 50+ point games. Just ONE. Hell, even ONE of his 271 40+ point games. Just ONE.


In any case...I love this footage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

LEGITIMATELY swatting the "UNBLOCKABLE SKY HOOK" not once, but twice within seconds.

Hitting jump shots from beyond the FT line. Behind the back passes. Unstoppable turnaround bank shot that makes Duncan's look like shit.

Of course, we only have about 2% of Wilt's NBA footage on video, and virtually none of it from any of his huge games.

Sorry...Chamberlain was EASILY a better scorer, with MUCH better range, a MUCH greater rebounder, FAR greater passer, a FAR greater shot-blocker, and a MUCH greater defensive force.

Thanks for playing though.

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq's "offense"...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ3FXLyNFew

He would have foule on that possession alone.

[BigKAT]

Nothing against Wilt,

I just prefer the guy who won 5 championships against 30 teams, with a 3 points line.

Rather then 2 championships, without a line to empower guys that weren't his size, in an 8 team league.

Go Magic for 5th.

[aj1987]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

I can't help but bust up. Playing against the 35 year old "Cement Shoe" Dutchman!!!! And "range" ???? 5ft jumper with no one on him. Just hilarious.


Chamberlain was FEASTING against DORKS like the Dutchman in his post-seasons...in the few series in which he actually faced a non-HOF center. MULTIPLE 40-50+ playoff games against the Clods like Smits, and MacCulloch (and Dampier.)

Now, find me footage of just ONE of Wilt's 122 50+ point games. Just ONE. Hell, even ONE of his 271 40+ point games. Just ONE.


In any case...I love this footage...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

LEGITIMATELY swatting the "UNBLOCKABLE SKY HOOK" not once, but twice within seconds.

Hitting jump shots from beyond the FT line. Behind the back passes. Unstoppable turnaround bank shot that makes Duncan's look like shit.

Of course, we only have about 2% of Wilt's NBA footage on video, and virtually none of it from any of his huge games.

Sorry...Chamberlain was EASILY a better scorer, with MUCH better range, a MUCH greater rebounder, FAR greater passer, a FAR greater shot-blocker, and a MUCH greater defensive force.

Thanks for playing though.
Is this why Chokerlain was the 8th leading scorer in the '69 Finals, 6th in '72, and 7th in '67?

Dude was a mental midget and lost with a 40+ PPG scorer on his team. Lived for stats and padded them to the max. Borderline top 10 at BEST. He's not even top 20, if we take the inferior era into account.

Shaq shits on the roid junkie and it not even close. Dude would be a modern day Drummond AT BEST. Stiff AF and the VAST majority of his "blocks" were goal tends. No wonder he was gifted 2. Dude flat out couldn't win shit.

Deal with it, Chokerlain turd. M-E-N-T-A-L M-I-D-G-E-T.

[Big164]

Shaq is my 2nd favorite player. I rank him above Lebron all time tbh.

But Wilt is the OG. Respect.

[aj1987]

Shaq is my 2nd favorite player. I rank him above Lebron all time tbh.

But Wilt is the OG. Respect.
How many alts do you have, dude. This is just sad now. Pretending to be a fan of Ilt Chokerlain... :facepalm :facepalm

[Big164]

I can't rank shaq#1 when he played in an era where traveling is allowed and offensive fouls are never called.

If wilt was allowed to use his mass to clear defenders, he'd average 60 per game, no joke.

[LAZERUSS]

I can't rank shaq#1 when he played in an era where traveling is allowed and offensive fouls are never called.

If wilt was allowed to use his mass to clear defenders, he'd average 60 per game, no joke.

Including against the weaker Shaq.

No joke.

[LAZERUSS]

Is this why Chokerlain was the 8th leading scorer in the '69 Finals, 6th in '72, and 7th in '67?

Dude was a mental midget and lost with a 40+ PPG scorer on his team. Lived for stats and padded them to the max. Borderline top 10 at BEST. He's not even top 20, if we take the inferior era into account.

Shaq shits on the roid junkie and it not even close. Dude would be a modern day Drummond AT BEST. Stiff AF and the VAST majority of his "blocks" were goal tends. No wonder he was gifted 2. Dude flat out couldn't win shit.

Deal with it, Chokerlain turd. M-E-N-T-A-L M-I-D-G-E-T.

Chamberlain played in the Finals in '60, '62, '64, '65, and '66 too.

EVERYONE KNEW that the REAL Finals in the 60's involved the Boston Celtics...and WILT.

And of course, going up against the GOAT defensive team, and the GOAT defensive center...all Chamberlain could do was put up series of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and even 34 ppg. Multiple 40+ games, including a must win 50 point game.

BTW, how come Shaq's numbers declined considerably when he faced Robinson's Spurs from '98 to '02?

Same with MJ's against the Bad Boys from '88-90 (even in '91 when Detroit was just a shell.)

Or Kareem's, whose numbers fell off the cliff from his regular seasons in '71, '72, and '73 when he faced Wilt and Thurmond in his playoff H2H's.

[LAZERUSS]

Even though his scoring dropped every single postseason, which he should receive at least some criticism for, I can't put too much blame on Wilt not winning a title on the Warriors. He was frequently playing against a far superior Celtics team, and pushed them razor thin 7 game series on multiple occasions. '66-'70 though, Wilt really does deserve criticism for those defeats, and it REALLY hurt his case for GOAT he only won 1 title in that span.

In '66, his first full season on the 76ers, they actually finished with a better record than the Celtics, and had a first round bye while Boston had to win 2 elimination games just to get out of the first round. In typical Wilt fashion, his numbers dipped going from averaging 34/25/5 on 54% in the regular season to 28/30/3 on 51% in the playoffs in a 5 game defeat to Boston, including just 23.5 ppg through the first 4 games of the Celtics series, before scoring 46 in the Celtics Game 5 clincher.

In '68 his team blew a 3-1 lead a la the Warriors this year, dropping Games 5 & 7 at home, with Wilt scoring just 14 points in Game 7, making 4 shots from the field all game.

In the '69 Finals his team blew a 2-0 & 3-2 lead, as Wilt went from averaging 21 ppg in the regular season to 12 ppg in the Finals, one of the biggest drop offs in history up there with 2011 LeBron & Curry this year. With a chance to go up 3-1 in Game 4, Wilt scored 8 points in a 1 point defeat, and again With a chance to clinch the title in Game 6, Wilt scored 8 points, and somehow lost a Game 7 at home with West dropping a 40 point triple double and winning FMVP in a series LOSS.

Then again in the '70 Finals, he had one monster game in Game 6 with Reed out, and proceeded to average just shy of 20 ppg the games Reed played in. And with his opponent on 1 leg and barely able to move in Game 7, Wilt scores 21 points, a decent amount coming in garbage time to lose a Game 7 for the third year in a row, including back to back Finals Game 7's.

If you can't put ANY blame on Wilt for failing to win a title from '68-'70, including losing Game 7 THREE seasons in a row, then you simply aren't being fair with your evaluations.

I haven't forgotten.

Later...

[Big164]

Including against the weaker Shaq.

No joke.
I love the youtube video of Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Walton/Kareem in the same room. Wilt and Russell are clearly the most alpha of the group while shaq is sitting there like a scared little puhsee.

[feyki]

I love the youtube video of Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Walton/Kareem in the same room. Wilt and Russell are clearly the most alpha of the group while shaq is sitting there like a scared little puhsee.

Shaq was always kid of the town . But Shaq was in the early 20's in that video . That's normal .

[WayOfWad3]

I submit my vote for Wilt Chamberlain!

[red1]

magic

[LAZERUSS]

Shaq is my 2nd favorite player. I rank him above Lebron all time tbh.

But Wilt is the OG. Respect.

I need to apologize to the Shaq fans here.

I get so carried away responding to Feeble and A Jackoff, the Harry and Lloyd of this forum, that I tend to make an ass of myself in the process.

Anyone that has followed my posts on this forum KNOW that I was a Shaq fan every since I watched him throw down a dunk after grabbing a rebound near the FT Line in a game at LSU.

A young NBA Shaq was among the most impressive physical specimens in NBA history. I have long maintained that he was arguably near his peak already by his second or third year in the league. A peak that he would play at for another 7-8 years after that.

I have argued vehemently that a 22 year old Shaq not only held his own against a peak Hakeem, but that he actually outplayed him. And I have alos been one of the few that has brought up the fact that just a few years later, a more seasoned O'Neal, still an amazing athlete, just annihilated a slipping Hakeem. There has NEVER been a question in my mind that Shaq was EASILY a greater player than Hakeem.

And Shaq was just as dominant against the other great centers of his era, like the Admiral and Patrick, as well. O'Neal was simply a considerably greater center.

Furthermore, for anyone that had the opportunity to watch the H2H's...Phil would put guys like Horry on Duncan for the first three quarters, and then switch O'Neal onto him in the 4th quarters. And the numbers don't lie...Shaq was SHUTTING Duncan DOWN in those 4th quarters. Again...no question in my mind that even a slightly declining Shaq was a greater player than Duncan.

Where do I rank him? Among all-time greats, anywhere from 6th to 8th, along with Duncan and Lebron. However, I would take a peak Shaq over both of them in a heartbeat.

Among centers, and even including Duncan... 4th, behind Wilt, KAJ, and Russell. BUT, a PEAK Shaq, along with a PEAK Kareem, were very close to a peak Chamberlain. Still, there were areas in which Chamberlain was just considerably better than both. Rebounding, defense, passing, outlet passing, and blocked shots. Offensively, all three were close, but again, most here never saw a prime Wilt, from say '62 thru '67. That Chamberlain was evident in the youtube video I posted. Most younger fans are absolutely stunned to see a younger Chamberlain shooting jump shots from the FT line, and making 12-15 ft turnaround bank shots. Unfortunately, and I mentioned in a post above, we only have about 2% of Wilt's career on video, and virtually none of any of his spectacular offensive games (none of his 271 40+ point games...unless you want to watch the highlights from his '62 ASG, in which he scored 42 points on 17-23 shooting.)

I will say it again...a prime Chamberlain was a better scorer, a better rebounder, a better passer, a better defender (both one-on-one, and in terms of rim protection), and a better shot-blocker than KAJ and Shaq. And Russell's only real edge would have been in overall team defensive play. No question though, that a peak Chamberlain, circa the mid-60's, had nearly the same defensive impact that Russell had. And aside from Nate Thurmond, Chamberlain was simply the greatest one-on-one defender at the center position in NBA history.

Once again...I apologize to the Shaq fans, though.

:cheers:

[RRR3]

Timothy Theodore Duncan

http://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/982388b7b30cd8b5a51b67e716fdbe28d8fce8.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=982388b7b30cd8b5a51b67e716fdbe28d8fc e8.jpg)

Put some respekk on his name for GODsake

5x Champion 3x FMVPs (2x MVPs going B2B)

Tim Duncan holds the record for the most total selections to the All-Defensive Team with 15.

The man is clearly top 5 does it on both ends of the floor. Beat LeBron (Top 3) twice in the finals. Destroyed Shaq and Kobe in the playoffs as well.

Tha fvck you mean, Magic? Bird? Kobe? Shaq? :biggums:

Y'all tripping for real. GOAT PF and TOP 5 DOA.

If Bill Russell (who is massively overrated) is considered top 4, there is no reason in hell why Duncan is not top 5.
You said Wilt in the last thread no inconsistency without a good explanation :no:

[RRR3]

going with whoever has the better chance between shaq/wilt.. OP I think thats fair since Im undecided who it should be between them anyway, but I definitely know Id like either of them over Magic.
:no: You've been saying Shaq, and that's who I'm marking you for. No changing your vote just because you don't want Magic winning

[RRR3]

I submit my vote for Wilt Chamberlain!
you don't have 1000 posts man sorry

[RRR3]

Closest thread so far

[Charlie Sheen]

:no: You've been saying Shaq, and that's who I'm marking you for. No changing your vote just because you don't want Magic winning

:applause: Good on you for maintaining order.

I had Wilt for #3, so I'm still Wilt for #5 obviously. Missed voting last thread.

[dyna]

Wilt

[silenc]

Magic Johnson!

[Smoke117]

Larry BIrd

[Mr Feeny]

No sir...that would be your boy Jordan.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4319820&postcount=1



QUIT.

Couldn't win shit until he had a roster that could win 55 games and were one horrifically blown call away from perhaps winning a title withOUT him (and basically replacing him with the legendary Pete Myers and his 7 ppg.) Oh, and that roster had 23 missed games between Grant and Pippen, or they would have had HCA and probably a title (they went 5-0 on their home floor in the playoffs.)


And, also Lebron. Not one time, nor two times, nor even three...but...Just ask his OWNER...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/07/dan_gilbert_says_lebron_james.html



BTW, how about being carried off the floor with ... drum roll please...CRAMPS????!!!!


And then how about RUSSELL against Wilt...

In the '66 EDF's, Chamberlain, as was nearly always the case, had zero help from the teammates. So, in the clinching game five, he slaughtered Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. Alas, with his teammates collectively shooting .352 in that series, and Sam Jones and Havlicek wiping them out...he had no chance.

Fast forward to the '67 EDF's. Now it was RUSSELL who whose team was down 3-1, and facing elimination in game five. Did he rise up and hang a 46-34 game on Wilt? Hell no! He quietly led his team, like a shepard leading sheep to slaughter. He QUIT. He produced a meager FOUR point game...all while Chamberlain was crushing him with 22 first half points en route to a total of 29 (he could have poured in 40 had he needed to)...in a 140-116 game that was close at the half. Wilt not only murdered him in scoring, he also crushed him on the glass, too...outrebounding the helpless Russell by a staggering 36-21 margin. Oh, and he even took time to hand out 13 assists and block 7 shots.

The Russell supporters have never given me any response to that, either.

Even Kareem packed it in in the '80 Finals. He suffered a sprained ankle in the game five...you know...the type of injury that was FAR less than the leg injuries Chamberlain suffered in the '68 EDF's, and then in the '70 season. What did KAJ do...he watched the game from his couch. And of course, Magic put up a game for the ages. In fact, it was the most decisive win of the series.

BTW, Kareem missed CHUNKS of games with two separate broken wrists. CHUNKS (16 and 20 games.) Meanwhile, Chamberlain not only PLAYED a clinching game five of the '72 Finals with a FRACTURED wrist, he DOMINATED the game (24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds and 8 blocks.)


QUITTERS...ALL of them.

Jordan won his 1st ring without a single allstar.
The 91 team certainly wouldn't have won 55 games without him which is what you just attempted to say.
The 94 team had everyone pealing AND added Kukoc (a top 3 player during the second run) along with the best 3 point shooter on the planet at the time.
Bill cartwright has openly said that the 94 team would have won the easiest title had Jordan stayed. That's because in his own words, that was the best bulls squad they've ever had. Unfortunately Jordan wasn't there.

Lebron had 27, 19, 10 in the game you say he "quit" against Boston.

Not even you can be that big of an idiot.

These are top 3 players.
Quitting would be doing what one of your 2 idols did and averaging 12 ppg in a 7 game series you single handedly lost by missing more free throws than the final margin in game 7, while your teammate had to carry you with 40 ppg in the finals.

There's a reason your idols all rent considered as great as the Jordans and Lebrons of the world. There's a reason they're etched in the top 3 while one of yours lags behind them after averaging 18 ppg in his Finals career and the other is even further down, at 12th all time.

[ArbitraryWater]

:no: You've been saying Shaq, and that's who I'm marking you for. No changing your vote just because you don't want Magic winning

Are you serious? What's with your bias?? I have Shaq/Wilt neck to neck but a good tier above Magic, so I'm making the logical pick, WILT... Stop interfering with posters picks.

[ArbitraryWater]

you don't have 1000 posts man sorry

That's WayOfWade, one of the admins accidentally deleted his original acc with well over 1000 posts.. count the Wilt pick ya prick

[SexSymbol]

Kobe Bryant

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe Bryant
Kobe 1996: Didn't place
Kobe 1997: Didn't place
Kobe 1998: Didn't place
Kobe 1999: Didn't place
Kobe 2000: 5th
Kobe 2001: 11th
Kobe 2002: 3rd
Kobe 2003: 8th
Kobe 2004: 10th
Kobe 2005: Didn't place
Kobe 2006: Didn't place
Kobe 2007: 24th
Kobe 2008: 5th
Kobe 2009: 7th
Kobe 2010: 12th
Kobe 2011: 11th
Kobe 2012: Didn't place
Kobe 2013: Didn't place
Kobe 2014: Didn't place
Kobe 2015: Didn't place
Kobe 2016: Didn't place

LeBron 2004: Didn't place
LeBron 2005: Didn't place
LeBron 2006: Didn't place
LeBron 2007: Didn't place
LeBron 2008: Didn't place
LeBron 2009: 2nd
LeBron 2010: 4th
LeBron 2011: 9th
LeBron 2012: 4th
LeBron 2013: 2nd
LeBron 2014: 6th
LeBron 2015: 13th
LeBron 2016: 11th

Kobe in years placed average position: 10th

LeBron in years placed average position: 6th

Kobe's best 5 years: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th (Average of 6th)

LeBron's best 5 years: 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 6th (Average of 4th)

Kobe Career Defensive Win Shares: 50.7 (48637 minutes played)

LeBron Career Defensive Win Shares: 58.4 (38478 minutes played)

Kobe Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: -0.6

LeBron Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +1.9

Kobe's best Defensive Win Shares season (4.5), is on par with LeBron's 8th best Defensive Win Shares season (4.5)

Kobe Career Defensive Rating: 105
LeBron Career Defensive Rating: 102

PLAYOFFS:

Kobe Career Defensive Rating: 106
LeBron Career Defensive Rating: 101

Kobe Career Defensive Win Shares: 7.3 (8641 minutes played)
LeBron Career Defensive Win Shares: 12.8 (7871 minutes played)

Kobe Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +0.7
LeBron Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +3.2

Kobe's best Defensive Win Shares playoff total (1.4), is on par with LeBron's 5th best Defensive Win Shares playoff total (1.4)

//

Even the most objective subjective analysis hands down favors LeBron

The only thing that won't favor LeBron is the opinion (subjective) of Kobe stans

LeBron is visually and empirically a better defender

Opponents' shooting against LeBron in Games 5, 6, and 7 in the Finals

Overall: 2.7/12.7, 21.1%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -26.8

Threes: .7/5, 13.3%, opponents usually shoot 40.4%; -27%

Twos: 2/7.7, 26.1%, opponents usually shoot 53.3%, -27.2%

Less than 6 ft: 1/5, 20%, opponents usually shoot 62.4%, -42.4%

Less than 10 ft: 1.3/6, 22.2%, opponents usually shoot 57.3%; -35.1%

Greater than 15 ft: 1/6.3, 15.8%; opponents usually shoot 40.5%; -24.7%

LeBron 2016 Playoffs (21 games)

3.2/10.2 Defensive FGs defended

Overall, held opponents to 31.8% FG (Their average FG% was 45.9%

This is a differential of -14.1% (He held opponents to -14.8% their average FG%), which is by far the best mark... For comparison, Draymond was next best at -8.4%

SOURCE: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!...?sort=GP&dir=1

To break it down even further to perimeter defense and Rim protection..

3PT DEFENSE

LeBron was the Cavs best 3pt defender, and along with Livingtson and context taken into account, the best 3pt defenders

0.9/3.8 Defensive Field Goals Defended

Held opponent 3pt shooters to 24.1% (Their average 3PT% was 36.7%)

This is a differential of -12.6%

Only one guy who played 15+ playoff games (Shawn Livingston) had a slightly better differential (Abet on lower volume)

SOURCE: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!...USMINUS&dir=-1

RIM PROTECTION

1.4/3.3 Defensive Field Goals Defended

Held opponents at the rim to 43.5%

The best rim protection % on the Cavs

For reference Bogut held opponents to 46.6%, and Tristan Thompson 49.2%

SOURCE: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!...&sort=GP&dir=1

...

Here's also some stuff comparing him and DPOY winner Kawhi Leonard in the regular season;

The usual field goal percent of the shooter that the player is defending
LeBron - 44.8%
Kawhi - 44.9%

Defense Dashboard

2pt FGs - Players shot 8.2% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
2pt FGs - Players shot 7.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
3pt FGs - Players shots 2.7% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
3pt FGs - Players shot 1.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
Overall - Players shot 7.4% worse than their average when defended by LeBron on 8.4 Defended FGs Per Game
Overall - Players shot 5.7% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi on 9.4 Defended FGs Per Game

Play type

When they were the closest isolation defender
LeBron - 69 possessions, .59 points per possession allowed, 28.8% eFG
Kawhi - 61 possessions, .69 points per possession allowed, 31% eFG

When they were the closest defender to the PnR ball handler
LeBron - 144 possessions, .66 ppp allowed, 37.1 eFG
Kawhi - 243 possessions, .65 ppp allowed, 35.8 eFG

When they were the roll man defender
LeBron - 10 possessions, .7 ppp, 38.9 eFG
Kawhi - 30 possessions, .5 ppp, 27.8 eFG

Post defense
LeBron - 43 possessions, .77 ppp, 40 eFG
Kawhi - 31 possessions, .77 ppp, 41.7 eFG

On spot up shooters
LeBron - 210 possessions, .8 ppp, 41.6 eFG
Kawhi - 200 possessions, .88 ppp, 43.6 eFG

Hand-offs
LeBron - 43 possessions, .49 ppp, 33.9 eFG
Leonard - 58 possessions, .72 ppp, 39.5 eFG

Off screens
LeBron - 78 possessions, .74 ppp, 40.8 eFG
Kawhi - 96 possessions, 1.05 ppp, 51.2 eFG

Finals Averages...
2.3 Blocks a game
2.6 Steals a game

2016 Playoff Averages
2.3 Steals a game
1.3 Blocks a game

In the last 3 games, LeBron averaged 3 blocks and 3 steals per game

LeBron had the second highest playoff DPM (5.8) in a championship winning playoff run of all time only behind Ben Wallace in '04 (6.0)

[SexSymbol]

Kobe 1996: Didn't place
Kobe 1997: Didn't place
Kobe 1998: Didn't place
Kobe 1999: Didn't place
Kobe 2000: 5th
Kobe 2001: 11th
Kobe 2002: 3rd
Kobe 2003: 8th
Kobe 2004: 10th
Kobe 2005: Didn't place
Kobe 2006: Didn't place
Kobe 2007: 24th
Kobe 2008: 5th
Kobe 2009: 7th
Kobe 2010: 12th
Kobe 2011: 11th
Kobe 2012: Didn't place
Kobe 2013: Didn't place
Kobe 2014: Didn't place
Kobe 2015: Didn't place
Kobe 2016: Didn't place

LeBron 2004: Didn't place
LeBron 2005: Didn't place
LeBron 2006: Didn't place
LeBron 2007: Didn't place
LeBron 2008: Didn't place
LeBron 2009: 2nd
LeBron 2010: 4th
LeBron 2011: 9th
LeBron 2012: 4th
LeBron 2013: 2nd
LeBron 2014: 6th
LeBron 2015: 13th
LeBron 2016: 11th

Kobe in years placed average position: 10th

LeBron in years placed average position: 6th

Kobe's best 5 years: 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th (Average of 6th)

LeBron's best 5 years: 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 6th (Average of 4th)

Kobe Career Defensive Win Shares: 50.7 (48637 minutes played)

LeBron Career Defensive Win Shares: 58.4 (38478 minutes played)

Kobe Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: -0.6

LeBron Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +1.9

Kobe's best Defensive Win Shares season (4.5), is on par with LeBron's 8th best Defensive Win Shares season (4.5)

Kobe Career Defensive Rating: 105
LeBron Career Defensive Rating: 102

PLAYOFFS:

Kobe Career Defensive Rating: 106
LeBron Career Defensive Rating: 101

Kobe Career Defensive Win Shares: 7.3 (8641 minutes played)
LeBron Career Defensive Win Shares: 12.8 (7871 minutes played)

Kobe Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +0.7
LeBron Career Defensive Box Plus Minus: +3.2

Kobe's best Defensive Win Shares playoff total (1.4), is on par with LeBron's 5th best Defensive Win Shares playoff total (1.4)

//

Even the most objective subjective analysis hands down favors LeBron

The only thing that won't favor LeBron is the opinion (subjective) of Kobe stans

LeBron is visually and empirically a better defender

Opponents' shooting against LeBron in Games 5, 6, and 7 in the Finals

Overall: 2.7/12.7, 21.1%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -26.8

Threes: .7/5, 13.3%, opponents usually shoot 40.4%; -27%

Twos: 2/7.7, 26.1%, opponents usually shoot 53.3%, -27.2%

Less than 6 ft: 1/5, 20%, opponents usually shoot 62.4%, -42.4%

Less than 10 ft: 1.3/6, 22.2%, opponents usually shoot 57.3%; -35.1%

Greater than 15 ft: 1/6.3, 15.8%; opponents usually shoot 40.5%; -24.7%

LeBron 2016 Playoffs (21 games)

3.2/10.2 Defensive FGs defended

Overall, held opponents to 31.8% FG (Their average FG% was 45.9%

This is a differential of -14.1% (He held opponents to -14.8% their average FG%), which is by far the best mark... For comparison, Draymond was next best at -8.4%

SOURCE: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!...?sort=GP&dir=1

To break it down even further to perimeter defense and Rim protection..

3PT DEFENSE

LeBron was the Cavs best 3pt defender, and along with Livingtson and context taken into account, the best 3pt defenders

0.9/3.8 Defensive Field Goals Defended

Held opponent 3pt shooters to 24.1% (Their average 3PT% was 36.7%)

This is a differential of -12.6%

Only one guy who played 15+ playoff games (Shawn Livingston) had a slightly better differential (Abet on lower volume)

SOURCE: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!...USMINUS&dir=-1

RIM PROTECTION

1.4/3.3 Defensive Field Goals Defended

Held opponents at the rim to 43.5%

The best rim protection % on the Cavs

For reference Bogut held opponents to 46.6%, and Tristan Thompson 49.2%

SOURCE: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!...&sort=GP&dir=1

...

Here's also some stuff comparing him and DPOY winner Kawhi Leonard in the regular season;

The usual field goal percent of the shooter that the player is defending
LeBron - 44.8%
Kawhi - 44.9%

Defense Dashboard

2pt FGs - Players shot 8.2% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
2pt FGs - Players shot 7.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
3pt FGs - Players shots 2.7% worse than their average when defended by LeBron
3pt FGs - Players shot 1.3% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi
Overall - Players shot 7.4% worse than their average when defended by LeBron on 8.4 Defended FGs Per Game
Overall - Players shot 5.7% worse than their average when defended by Kawhi on 9.4 Defended FGs Per Game

Play type

When they were the closest isolation defender
LeBron - 69 possessions, .59 points per possession allowed, 28.8% eFG
Kawhi - 61 possessions, .69 points per possession allowed, 31% eFG

When they were the closest defender to the PnR ball handler
LeBron - 144 possessions, .66 ppp allowed, 37.1 eFG
Kawhi - 243 possessions, .65 ppp allowed, 35.8 eFG

When they were the roll man defender
LeBron - 10 possessions, .7 ppp, 38.9 eFG
Kawhi - 30 possessions, .5 ppp, 27.8 eFG

Post defense
LeBron - 43 possessions, .77 ppp, 40 eFG
Kawhi - 31 possessions, .77 ppp, 41.7 eFG

On spot up shooters
LeBron - 210 possessions, .8 ppp, 41.6 eFG
Kawhi - 200 possessions, .88 ppp, 43.6 eFG

Hand-offs
LeBron - 43 possessions, .49 ppp, 33.9 eFG
Leonard - 58 possessions, .72 ppp, 39.5 eFG

Off screens
LeBron - 78 possessions, .74 ppp, 40.8 eFG
Kawhi - 96 possessions, 1.05 ppp, 51.2 eFG

Finals Averages...
2.3 Blocks a game
2.6 Steals a game

2016 Playoff Averages
2.3 Steals a game
1.3 Blocks a game

In the last 3 games, LeBron averaged 3 blocks and 3 steals per game

LeBron had the second highest playoff DPM (5.8) in a championship winning playoff run of all time only behind Ben Wallace in '04 (6.0)
Kobe Bryant

[longhornfan1234]

Wilt.

[aj1987]

Chamberlain played in the Finals in '60, '62, '64, '65, and '66 too.

EVERYONE KNEW that the REAL Finals in the 60's involved the Boston Celtics...and WILT.

And of course, going up against the GOAT defensive team, and the GOAT defensive center...all Chamberlain could do was put up series of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and even 34 ppg. Multiple 40+ games, including a must win 50 point game.


Same with MJ's against the Bad Boys from '88-90 (even in '91 when Detroit was just a shell.)

Or Kareem's, whose numbers fell off the cliff from his regular seasons in '71, '72, and '73 when he faced Wilt and Thurmond in his playoff H2H's.
The real Finals are the Finals, Lozerus. Wilt, more often than not, choked in the actual Finals. Dude was a choking mental midget, who played for his stats. Deal with it.



BTW, how come Shaq's numbers declined considerably when he faced Robinson's Spurs from '98 to '02?
Probably because he was being guarded by two of the greatest defensive players of all time and was, on several occasions, being triple teamed as well.

[k0kakw0rld]

Fxck your vote. What's the point of voting if you ain't considering other people's votes.

[k0kakw0rld]

The real Finals are the Finals, Lozerus. Wilt, more often than not, choked in the actual Finals. Dude was a choking mental midget, who played for his stats. Deal with it.



Probably because he was being guarded by two of the greatest defensive players of all time and was, on several occasions, being triple teamed as well.
Duncan was also a force down low and was getting double teamed whenever they had a chance to. His one on one post game was so deadly. I can say with confidence that he, more than once, destroyed prime Shaq.

[aj1987]

Duncan was also a force down low and was getting double teamed whenever they had a chance to. His one on one post game was so deadly. I can say with confidence that he, more than once, destroyed prime Shaq.
:roll: :roll:

Except Shaq was doubled/tripled on literally every possession. Not just a couple of times a game.

Why are you talking about Shaq/Duncan when you haven't seen them play a single game? :facepalm

[Mr Feeny]

Duncan was also a force down low and was getting double teamed whenever they had a chance to. His one on one post game was so deadly. I can say with confidence that he, more than once, destroyed prime Shaq.

I think you meant to quote a different post?
Sure Duncan had great games. Game of the 2003 wcf was astonishing but overall, Shaq was a more dominant player during his peak. I didn't know that this was up to question until now. Nobody I've met has ever bothered arguing otherwise and I always thought it was a unanimous conclusion.

I'm really surprised to actually be reading an argument for peak Duncan. 》 peak Shaq.
Shaq probably had a top 3 peak all time. You can make an argument for Duncan more valuable than Shaq all time based on longevity but peak for peak, I'm not sure anyone agrees with you.

[k0kakw0rld]

:roll: :roll:

Except Shaq was doubled/tripled on literally every possession. Not just a couple of times a game.

Why are you talking about Shaq/Duncan when you haven't seen them play a single game? :facepalm
I'm a spurs fan so the footage I got them.

[DavisIsMyUniBro]

And of course, going up against the GOAT defensive team, and the GOAT defensive center...all Chamberlain could do was put up series of 28 ppg, 29 ppg, 30 ppg, 31 ppg, and even 34 ppg. Multiple 40+ games, including a must win 50 point game.

BTW, how come Shaq's numbers declined considerably when he faced Robinson's Spurs from '98 to '02?


First of all, David Robinson, despite getting destroyed by Hakeem (which seems to tarnish his legacy) in the RS at his peak may have Been the best non Bill Russell defender at his peak. Personally I have Hakeem at 2nd but I could see arguement so for Robinson, I'd say somewhere top 5. Underrated, ridiculously underrated honestly.

But shays numbers declining considerably is an exaggeration, to be blunt. Looking at all 16 match ups they had (year by year not enough match ups for it to be reliable) within that span, shaq averaged 26.5 points. I did 1997-2003, and yes that skews the results in shaqs favor rather than 1998-2002, but even 1998-2002 is still probably in the 25 range. (Just did it, it's 25.77)

I absolutely cannot be bothered to calculate shooting percentage manually, so I'll look at the 97-03 sample this way

In the 16 game sample, he shot less than 50% 3 times, between 50-55% 4 times, between 55-60% 4 times, and 60-70% 3 times, and 70%+ 2 times, so efficiency wasn't a problem

Also, the game was different, less one on ones means isolation defense in the post, while still very valuable, isn't a make or break anymore.

Also Duncan was there most of these years, and the David and Duncan front court is absolutely terrifying on defense

[arifgokcen]

Magic

[aj1987]

I'm a spurs fan so the footage I got them.

You probably started watching basketball like 5 years ago. Not to mention you are a bandwagoner.

[RRR3]

Let's get this done guys

k0kakw0rld and AW, don't whine to me about your own inconsistencies. How the hell am I supposed to take you seriously if you can't be consistent?

[Sakkreth]

Magic

[Im Still Ballin]

This one is going down to the wiyah!

[RRR3]

This one is going down to the wiyah!
Yes it is. Would like it finished ASAP lol.

[NBAGOAT]

Yes it is. Would like it finished ASAP lol.

did you vote. Ik you're running the polls but don't think it's any big problem if you do.

[NBAGOAT]

Are you serious? What's with your bias?? I have Shaq/Wilt neck to neck but a good tier above Magic, so I'm making the logical pick, WILT... Stop interfering with posters picks.

you stuck with Shaq previously however. The point of these threads is ruined if you vote to just not let someone else make the list(which I'm guessing will happen when we get to Kobe in the 10-15 range). Your 1st instinct is Shaq had a slight edge but you voting for Wilt is pretty much because Shaq has no chance this round. Gotta give some basketball reason for your change even if it is neck/neck. It doesn't really matter anyway, Magic has a good chance of winning in a landslide if he loses this round.

[Vienceslav]

Magic

[WayOfWad3]

you don't have 1000 posts man sorry
As AW posted I actually have closer to 4,000 posts they just got accidentally deleted. I'll vote in future threads so just keep that in mind for the future. Thanks for adding my vote though!

[Nilocon165]

Kobe Bryant-1 (SexSymbol)

I legit burst out laughing when I saw this :lol

[Lebronxrings]

Kobe Bryant
no surprise considering you are the biggest dumbass on this forum

[Charlie Sheen]

you stuck with Shaq previously however. The point of these threads is ruined if you vote to just not let someone else make the list(which I'm guessing will happen when we get to Kobe in the 10-15 range). Your 1st instinct is Shaq had a slight edge but you voting for Wilt is pretty much because Shaq has no chance this round. Gotta give some basketball reason for your change even if it is neck/neck. It doesn't really matter anyway, Magic has a good chance of winning in a landslide if he loses this round.


:applause: The fun in this is seeing how all the posters vary in their rankings. That's what makes the finished product interesting. Once people start voting just to make the final rankings look a certain way, it dismantles the entire project.

[Overdrive]

Magic

[ArbitraryWater]

Let's get this done guys

k0kakw0rld and AW, don't whine to me about your own inconsistencies. How the hell am I supposed to take you seriously if you can't be consistent?

Its a coin flip for me between the two, and I am choosing to go with Wilt, particularly because I dont want to see Magic over either. Now be a good commissioner and count it.

[ArbitraryWater]

Magic

Haven't seen this guy post in a year or so.. kinda screams alt.

[ArbitraryWater]

Jesus Christ, entire Bron fam kept Magic in this one :wtf:

Even if you'd group together to like make a beneficial pick (even though our guy is already in), wouldn't Wilt be the guy you'd side with?

[RRR3]

Ok, apparently you can't even edit your posts after 48 hours now (change it back Jeff please).


So....


Voting Tally

Wilt Chamberlain- 17 (ClipperRevival, SouBeachTalents, FKAri, MP.Trey, Naero, GrapeApe, Prometheus, Plowking, DirkNowitzki41, NBAGOAT, K Xerxes, feyki, Dragonyeuw, Charlie Sheen, dyna, longhornfan1234, WayofWad3*)

Magic Johnson- 16 (Nilocon165, Lebronxrings, Im Still Ballin, Doranku, raprap, Bankaii, Prime_Shaq, Sarcastic, scuzzy, Mr Feeny, Keno, red1, afrigokcen, Sakkreth, Vienceslav, Overdrive )

Shaquille O'Neal- 4 (Kiiing, ArbitraryWater, Young X, aj1987)

Larry Bird- 2 (Fire Colangelo, Smoke117)

Kobe Bryant-1 (SexSymbol)

[RRR3]

Actually, research shows that InsanityKills voted for Shaq for number 4 but switched to Magic now. Explain yourself, InsanityKills :no:

[RRR3]

I also don't know why I included JeBronLames's vote, after his reasoning was he was only voting for Wilt because he respected him for all the women :wtf:

God damn it you guys kill me.

[Nilocon165]

Ok, apparently you can't even edit your posts after 48 hours now (change it back Jeff please).


So....


Voting Tally

Magic Johnson- 17* (Nilocon165, Lebronxrings, Im Still Ballin, Doranku, raprap, Bankaii, Prime_Shaq, Sarcastic, scuzzy, Mr Feeny, Keno, red1, afrigokcen, Sakkreth, Vienceslav, Overdrive )

Wilt Chamberlain- 17 (ClipperRevival, SouBeachTalents, FKAri, MP.Trey, Naero, GrapeApe, Prometheus, Plowking, DirkNowitzki41, NBAGOAT, K Xerxes, feyki, Dragonyeuw, Charlie Sheen, dyna, longhornfan1234, WayofWad3*)

Shaquille O'Neal- 4 (Kiiing, ArbitraryWater, Young X, aj1987)

Larry Bird- 2 (Fire Colangelo, Smoke117)

Kobe Bryant-1 (SexSymbol)


*Magic vote TBD: JeBronLames
https://media.giphy.com/media/HPvfnOuz1tOgg/giphy.gif

[RRR3]

IDGAF Wilt won. Not counting JeBronLames and InsanityKills votes if I don't count AW's, because that's inconsistent. Scream "rigged" all you want, Wilt shouldn't be below 5 and you idiots know it.

[RRR3]

Sorry about the last minute changes, guys, I admit I believe Wilt should win this, but I also could not include inconsistent votes without good explanations from InsanityKills and JeBronLames and then NOT include ArbitraryWater and k0kakw0rld's votes for the same reason; that's just not consistent nor is it fair! If I had included all the inconsistent votes, this thread would be tied anyways.

[LAZERUSS]

Jordan won his 1st ring without a single allstar.
The 91 team certainly wouldn't have won 55 games without him which is what you just attempted to say.
The 94 team had everyone pealing AND added Kukoc (a top 3 player during the second run) along with the best 3 point shooter on the planet at the time.
Bill cartwright has openly said that the 94 team would have won the easiest title had Jordan stayed. That's because in his own words, that was the best bulls squad they've ever had. Unfortunately Jordan wasn't there.

Lebron had 27, 19, 10 in the game you say he "quit" against Boston.

Not even you can be that big of an idiot.

These are top 3 players.
Quitting would be doing what one of your 2 idols did and averaging 12 ppg in a 7 game series you single handedly lost by missing more free throws than the final margin in game 7, while your teammate had to carry you with 40 ppg in the finals.

There's a reason your idols all rent considered as great as the Jordans and Lebrons of the world. There's a reason they're etched in the top 3 while one of yours lags behind them after averaging 18 ppg in his Finals career and the other is even further down, at 12th all time.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

IDIOT???

Lebron QUIT in GAME FIVE of that series, YOU IDIOT!

Here...the entire WORLD watched ...the QUITTER...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

In a 120-88 loss...in which "Court Jester James" scored 15 points on 3-14 shooting.

Of course, his own OWNER made this claim...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....ron_james.html


Gilbert feels James quit on the Cavs during their second-round series against the Boston Celtics, who rallied from a 2-1 deficit to eliminate Cleveland.

"He quit," Gilbert said. "Not just in Game 5, but in Games 2, 4 and 6. Watch the tape. The Boston series was unlike anything in the history of sports for a superstar."

The Cavaliers were beaten by 32 points in Game 5. During the game, James appeared distracted and uninterested, often glaring at Cleveland's coaches as the Cavs tried to foul to get back into the game in the second half. James also made some puzzling postgame comments, saying he had "spoiled" people with his play over seven seasons.

Gilbert also said he believes James quit on the Cavs in Game 6 of their series in 2009 against Orlando.

"Go back and look at the tape," he said. "How many shots did he take?"

And don't forget this famous QUIT job, either...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1PesQ1yA6g

Nor this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPCqgmmfdg

CRAMPS...:roll: :roll: :roll:


Yes, the QUITTER.

CLEARLY.


Get your facts straight next time you moron.

[OmniStrife]

Magic Johnson

[Mr Feeny]

:roll:
IDIOT???

Lebron QUIT in GAME FIVE of that series, YOU IDIOT!

Here...the entire WORLD watched ...the QUITTER...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d-Mnfz6iB0

In a 120-88 loss...in which "Court Jester James" scored 15 points on 3-14 shooting.

Of course, his own OWNER made this claim...

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index....ron_james.html



And don't forget this famous QUIT job, either...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1PesQ1yA6g

Nor this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjPCqgmmfdg

CRAMPS...:roll: :roll: :roll:


Yes, the QUITTER.

CLEARLY.


Get your facts straight next time you moron.

Hey retard. Having a bad game followed by a 27, 19, 10 elimination game performance is not quitting. Wilt taking 7 shots in a game 7 is quitting.


Missing more free throws (9) than the final spread of a game 7 while your teammates gets a 42 point triple double and averaged 40 for the series is quitting.

I realise that you're suffering since Lebron cemented his legacy as a top 3 player all time but there's no need to melt down.

It's not bad being a top 10 player which Ilt is. It's not bad being 12th all time which is what Kobe is.

Whatever they do, they'll always be that much behind lethick unfortunately for you.

:banana:

[LAZERUSS]

Hey retard. Having a bad game followed by a 27, 19, 10 elimination game performance is not quitting. Wilt taking 7 shots in a game 7 is quitting.


Missing more free throws (9) than the final spread of a game 7 while your teammates gets a 42 point triple double and averaged 40 for the series is quitting.

I realise that you're suffering since Lebron cemented his legacy as a top 3 player all time but there's no need to melt down.

It's not bad being a top 10 player which Ilt is. It's not bad being 12th all time which is what Kobe is.

Whatever they do, they'll always be that much behind lethick unfortunately for you.

:banana:

Lebron is a PROVEN QUITTER!


Not one, not two, not three, but MANY times in his career.

The entire world saw it on YouTube.

QUIT in a PIVOTAL game FIVE!

Made a complete ASS out of himself.

Hiw own OWNER accused of him QUITTING, not only in that GAME FIVE, but games 2, 4, and 6. Then accused him of QUITTING in GAME SIX of the 2009 Orlando series.

Then yet ANOTHER famous YouTube QUIT job in the 2014 Finals...when he had to carried off the floor...with CRAMPS (and probably not LEG cramps either, if you know what I mean.)

Not only that, but unquestionably the WORST Finals by anyone near GOAT level, in the 2007 Finals...leading his team to a sweeping loss with a horrific .356 FG%.

And in the clinching game four ONE POINT loss... a truly LAUGHABLE performance of 10-30 from the floor and yes, 2-6 from the LINE. Any normal coach would have yanked his ass off the court in the first quarter.

Furthermore, he was one Ray Allen shot, and one Kyrie Irving shot, away from "1-7!"

#3 ... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah right...

[aj1987]

Hey retard. Having a bad game followed by a 27, 19, 10 elimination game performance is not quitting. Wilt taking 7 shots in a game 7 is quitting.


Missing more free throws (9) than the final spread of a game 7 while your teammates gets a 42 point triple double and averaged 40 for the series is quitting.

I realise that you're suffering since Lebron cemented his legacy as a top 3 player all time but there's no need to melt down.

It's not bad being a top 10 player which Ilt is. It's not bad being 12th all time which is what Kobe is.

Whatever they do, they'll always be that much behind lethick unfortunately for you.

:banana:
.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.

[Mr Feeny]

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5 let's just copy paste this in any thread that Wilt is mentioned in:lol :applause:

[LAZERUSS]

REALITY...


Gotta love the Ajackoffs of this site. CONTEXT. He has no clue what that means.

Scoring? How about post-season runs of 28, 29, 33, 35, 35, and 37 ppg? How about post-season series of 37, 37, 39, and 39 ppg? How about post-season series of 28-30, 29-28, 30-31, 31-27, and 34-27 against RUSSELL? How about 13 playoff games of 40+...11 of which came in his 52 playoff games in his "scoring" seasons (21% for those keeping track.) How about MUST WIN games of 45-27 (Finals BTW), 46-34 (against RUSSELL BTW), 50-22, 50-35 (against RUSSELL BTW), and even a 56-35-12 game? As well as another 50 point game in the '64 WDF's. Or series clinching games of 30-32, 30-26, 38-26, and 39-26-10?

How about his MUST WIN playoff games? In his 23 must win playoff games...

31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

How about his 37 MUST WIN, and SERIES CLINCHING playoff games?

29.5 ppg, 26.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, and on a .546 FG% (again, in post-seasons that shot .435 in that span...or nearly TWELVE percentage points above the league average.)


Rebounding? Simply...the GOAT post-season rebounder in NBA history. Yes, Russell had a slightly higher average... 24.9 rpg to 24.5 rpg...BUT, in their eight playoff series H2H's, Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of them. Including margins of 5, 6, and even 9 rpg! Oh, Chamberlain is also the all-time FINALS leading rebounder with a career average of 24.6 rpg.

He played in 13 post-seasons, and his LOW was 20.2 rpg. He also had post-seasons of 28, 29, and even 30 rpg. And he had series of 30 and 31 rpg (both against RUSSELL BTW.) In his LAST post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games... 22.5 rpg, in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (just this last season the NBA averaged 42.0 rpg.) That translates to 19 rpg in the '16 playoffs. In his LAST season.

He played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of them. He was outrebounded by PF Jerry Lucas in ONE...and by a 21.0 to 20.0 rpg margin/ However, when the two faced each other as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded the 31 year old Lacas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.

Wilt was outrebounding Reed by 14 rpg, Thurmond by 7 rpg, and Russell by 9 rpg.


Playoff RECORDS? Surely this "declining" Wilt would not have any post-season records, right? How about, and by far, the most 20-20 games, the most 30-20 games, the most 20-30 games, the most 30-30 games, the most 40-20 games, the most 40-30 games, the most 50-20 games, and the most 50-30 games? How about the most post-seasons of 20-20, 30-20, 30-25, 35-20?


Blocked shots? Tim Duncan just retired with the "official" post-season blocked shot record of 568 in his 251 playoff games. Well nbastats.net contributor, Julizaver found blocked shot data for 81 of Wilt's 160 post-season games...or roughly half (and almost all of it from the mid-60's on)...and... 590 blocked shots...in 81 games! Hell, an old Wilt blocked 33 shots in his '72 WCF's in the four known games of that series, and 15 of those were on KAJ!

Defense? Wilt held Russell to playoff series FG%'s of .399, .397, .386, and .358 (in a season in which Russell shot .454 against the NBA.) He held Thurmond to playoff series of .392, .373, and .343 (a PEAK Nate BTW...and in a season in which Thurmond shot .437 against the NBA.) He held Bellamy to .450 in a season in which Bellamy shot .521 against the NBA, and then to .421 in a season in which Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA. Oh, can't forget Kareem, either. KAJ shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in '71 and '72. Against Wilt in those two post-seasons? .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

How about Wilt's FG% in his six Finals? .559...all while holding his opposing centers (all in the HOF BTW)...to a combined .439. Or how about his two game seven's of the Finals? He outshot Reed and Russell by a combined .708 to .333 margin (all while averaging 19.5 ppg and 25.5 rpg.)


Passing? Find me a CENTER who averaged 9.0 apg in an entire playoff run (which, BTW, led the post-season that year.) Or a center who had two straight triple-double series (28-27-11, and 22-32-10)?


Of course, had a PRIME Wilt faced the likes of a washed Smits, or a 35 year old Mutombo (whom Shaq was allowed to beat to a bloody pulp in some of the most disgraceful offciating in Finals history), or a never-was in the career 6 ppg scoring MacCulloch, or the complete bust in Eric Dampier... in his Finals...no doubt he would have been putting up 30-40-and 50 point playoff games against them.

GOAT.

[WillC]

Wilt Chamberlain

[dreamwarrior]

Magic Johnson

[aj1987]

REALITY...

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

Ilt's scoring drop off from the RS to the PO's:

'60 - -4.4
'61 - -1.4
'62 - -15.4
'63 - Missed the PO's despite averaging 44.8/24.3/3.4 on 52.8%
'64 - -2.2
'65 - -5.4
'66 - -5.5
'67 - -2.4
'68 - -0.6
'69 - -6.6
'70 - -5.2 (Injured his knee, so not really gonna count this year)
'71 - -2.4
'72 - -0.1
'73 - -2.8

Those numbers would translate to ~15 PPG in the '90's, BTW. Playing in a weak ass era definitely helped boost his stats.


Ilt's FG% from the RS to the PO's:

1960 - +3.5
1961 - -4.0
1962 - -3.9
1964 - +1.8
1965 - +2.0
1966 - -3.1
1967 - -10.4
1968 - -6.1
1979 - -3.8
1970 - -1.9
1971 - -9.0
1972 - -8.6
1973 - -17.5

WOAT

:cheers: :cheers:

[LAZERUSS]

Easily blows away 3" LeChoke...


Gotta love the Ajackoffs of this site. CONTEXT. He has no clue what that means.

Scoring? How about post-season runs of 28, 29, 33, 35, 35, and 37 ppg? How about post-season series of 37, 37, 39, and 39 ppg? How about post-season series of 28-30, 29-28, 30-31, 31-27, and 34-27 against RUSSELL? How about 13 playoff games of 40+...11 of which came in his 52 playoff games in his "scoring" seasons (21% for those keeping track.) How about MUST WIN games of 45-27 (Finals BTW), 46-34 (against RUSSELL BTW), 50-22, 50-35 (against RUSSELL BTW), and even a 56-35-12 game? As well as another 50 point game in the '64 WDF's. Or series clinching games of 30-32, 30-26, 38-26, and 39-26-10?

How about his MUST WIN playoff games? In his 23 must win playoff games...

31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, 4.2 apg, and on a .540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

How about his 37 MUST WIN, and SERIES CLINCHING playoff games?

29.5 ppg, 26.1 rpg, 4.0 apg, and on a .546 FG% (again, in post-seasons that shot .435 in that span...or nearly TWELVE percentage points above the league average.)


Rebounding? Simply...the GOAT post-season rebounder in NBA history. Yes, Russell had a slightly higher average... 24.9 rpg to 24.5 rpg...BUT, in their eight playoff series H2H's, Chamberlain outrebounded Russell in EVERY one of them. Including margins of 5, 6, and even 9 rpg! Oh, Chamberlain is also the all-time FINALS leading rebounder with a career average of 24.6 rpg.

He played in 13 post-seasons, and his LOW was 20.2 rpg. He also had post-seasons of 28, 29, and even 30 rpg. And he had series of 30 and 31 rpg (both against RUSSELL BTW.) In his LAST post-season, at age 36, and covering 17 games... 22.5 rpg, in a post-season that averaged 50.6 rpg per team (just this last season the NBA averaged 42.0 rpg.) That translates to 19 rpg in the '16 playoffs. In his LAST season.

He played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by an opposing center in ANY of them. He was outrebounded by PF Jerry Lucas in ONE...and by a 21.0 to 20.0 rpg margin/ However, when the two faced each other as CENTERS, a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded the 31 year old Lacas, playing 46 mpg, by a 23.2 rpg to 9.8 rpg margin.

Wilt was outrebounding Reed by 14 rpg, Thurmond by 7 rpg, and Russell by 9 rpg.


Playoff RECORDS? Surely this "declining" Wilt would not have any post-season records, right? How about, and by far, the most 20-20 games, the most 30-20 games, the most 20-30 games, the most 30-30 games, the most 40-20 games, the most 40-30 games, the most 50-20 games, and the most 50-30 games? How about the most post-seasons of 20-20, 30-20, 30-25, 35-20?


Blocked shots? Tim Duncan just retired with the "official" post-season blocked shot record of 568 in his 251 playoff games. Well nbastats.net contributor, Julizaver found blocked shot data for 81 of Wilt's 160 post-season games...or roughly half (and almost all of it from the mid-60's on)...and... 590 blocked shots...in 81 games! Hell, an old Wilt blocked 33 shots in his '72 WCF's in the four known games of that series, and 15 of those were on KAJ!

Defense? Wilt held Russell to playoff series FG%'s of .399, .397, .386, and .358 (in a season in which Russell shot .454 against the NBA.) He held Thurmond to playoff series of .392, .373, and .343 (a PEAK Nate BTW...and in a season in which Thurmond shot .437 against the NBA.) He held Bellamy to .450 in a season in which Bellamy shot .521 against the NBA, and then to .421 in a season in which Bellamy had shot .541 against the NBA. Oh, can't forget Kareem, either. KAJ shot .577 and .574 against the NBA in '71 and '72. Against Wilt in those two post-seasons? .481 and .457 (including .414 in the last four games of that series.)

How about Wilt's FG% in his six Finals? .559...all while holding his opposing centers (all in the HOF BTW)...to a combined .439. Or how about his two game seven's of the Finals? He outshot Reed and Russell by a combined .708 to .333 margin (all while averaging 19.5 ppg and 25.5 rpg.)


Passing? Find me a CENTER who averaged 9.0 apg in an entire playoff run (which, BTW, led the post-season that year.) Or a center who had two straight triple-double series (28-27-11, and 22-32-10)?


Of course, had a PRIME Wilt faced the likes of a washed Smits, or a 35 year old Mutombo (whom Shaq was allowed to beat to a bloody pulp in some of the most disgraceful offciating in Finals history), or a never-was in the career 6 ppg scoring MacCulloch, or the complete bust in Eric Dampier... in his Finals...no doubt he would have been putting up 30-40-and 50 point playoff games against them.

GOAT.