The evolution of Kyrie Irving

[DoctorP]

What a year for Kyrie Irving. After injuring his leg last season he has come back with a vengeance. Rehab, a great NBA season, winning an NBA title and hitting all of the clutch shots in the Finals and now looking like the best player on the Olympic team.

He had a great diving alley-oop pass late in the close win against France.

Kyrie Irving is proving that his potential is going to be met.

[RedBlackAttack]

Btw, Kyrie's 12 assists today against France is tied for the most assists by any player in US Olympic history. He did it while committing 0 turnovers and scoring 10 efficient points.

I don't think there's any doubt that he has been the most consistent player on the team so far. Melo has had some really good moments where he took over in key situations, but he has also had some rough games.

The biggest ones are yet to come, but there isn't anyone I trust more than Kyrie right now in a pressure situation.

[CTbasketball92]

It's great to see ISH giving Kyrie his due. The signs of him being a special player just keep piling up. FIBA Cup MVP, All Star Game MVP, the finals/playoffs he just had and now he's actually looked like the best player on team USA, and probably their leader, along with Melo because of experience/ability and Durant ... just because of ability.

Kyrie doesn't have amazing court vision, but I think he could be a solid conventional pg leading a good team with 7.5 assists or so, and a very low turnover rate. He's averaging 6 assists in 24 minutes during the olympics. Only 1 turnover. Very good stuff. Cannot wait to see what he's able to do this season, hopefully cavs will let him rest up in training camp.

[Nilocon165]

And I've watched almost every single game of his career live:banana:

I'll never forget going crazy and jumping around after his game winning 3 against the raptors a few years back

[J Shuttlesworth]

One of the best regular season games I've ever seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mi7OSaVB3fg

[Mr Feeny]

I hope he stays healthy and continues to develop.

I remember thinking that Wade was a surefire bet to be a top 5 player all time after the 2006 finals. He was playing like the best player on the planet by the age of 24 and doing ScARy things. He was closing big finals games almost single handedly.

The following season, he had several games where he'd take over almost completely whenever he wanted. He scored 19 in the final ten minutes against the spurs including 2 consecutive blocks of Parker to bring the heat down from a huge deficit.
He then OBLITERATED Kobe in their h2h on Christmas day getting 40, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 steals and 4 blocks on 60% shooting and on only 20 shots while holding Kobe to 4-17 shooting.

That was the Wade we all miss. It's a shame he injured himself and has been plagued by physical woes ever since. He's never been the same. Will go down as an incredible player but I believe that if not for the Injuries, we be talking about an all time elite player.

I hope Kyrie avoids injuries.

[BigKAT]

I hope he stays healthy and continues to develop.

I remember thinking that Wade was a surefire bet to be a top 5 player all time after the 2006 finals. He was playing like the best player on the planet by the age of 24 and doing ScARy things. He was closing big finals games almost single handedly.

The following season, he had several games where he'd take over almost completely whenever he wanted. He scored 19 in the final ten minutes against the spurs including 2 consecutive blocks of Parker to bring the heat down from a huge deficit.
He then OBLITERATED Kobe in their h2h on Christmas day getting 40, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 steals and 4 blocks on 60% shooting and on only 20 shots while holding Kobe to 4-17 shooting.

That was the Wade we all miss. It's a shame he injured himself and has been plagued by physical woes ever since. He's never been the same. Will go down as an incredible player but I believe that if not for the Injuries, we be talking about an all time elite player.

I hope Kyrie avoids injuries.

I-N-J-U-R-I-E-S

That's a terrifying concept when it comes to small guards.
We've seen it decimate penny, d-rose, it nearly ended Curry's career before it started. B-Beal is barely seeing the court, Deron Williams was just torn apart from the player that he was.

Kyrie's a great player, very likeble, and unlike Wade, who didn't have the privilage of playing with a Top-5 HoF in his youth, I hope Kyrie can rely on Lebron and Love and take better care of his body. That way we may enjoy him for the next 6-7 seasons.

[RedBlackAttack]

I hope he stays healthy and continues to develop.

I remember thinking that Wade was a surefire bet to be a top 5 player all time after the 2006 finals. He was playing like the best player on the planet by the age of 24 and doing ScARy things. He was closing big finals games almost single handedly.

The following season, he had several games where he'd take over almost completely whenever he wanted. He scored 19 in the final ten minutes against the spurs including 2 consecutive blocks of Parker to bring the heat down from a huge deficit.
He then OBLITERATED Kobe in their h2h on Christmas day getting 40, 11 assists, 4 rebounds, 4 steals and 4 blocks on 60% shooting and on only 20 shots while holding Kobe to 4-17 shooting.

That was the Wade we all miss. It's a shame he injured himself and has been plagued by physical woes ever since. He's never been the same. Will go down as an incredible player but I believe that if not for the Injuries, we be talking about an all time elite player.

I hope Kyrie avoids injuries.
Wade is still considered one of the very best SGs to ever play the game, though. It's not like the injuries robbed him of a legacy.

Maybe it didn't exactly turn out the way we might have envisioned when the Heat won it all in 2006 and he had such an amazing all-around game, but he's still pretty damn high on that mountain.


All of the stories being leaked out are that LeBron has taught Kyrie a lot about nutrition, keeping his body limber/strong and basically how to maintain a high level of play year after year under enormous pressure. I've watched every game Kyrie has ever played for the Cavs and at Duke. I have never seen him look as in-shape as he is right now.

A few of his early years were spent relying on talent and skill, but not so much all of the other stuff. That's what happens when you're drafted into a situation with no veteran leadership or a competent coaching staff. He has played for four head coaches in five NBA seasons, and three of those years were under either Byron Scott or Mike Brown.

That's not exactly the recipe for success in terms of talent development, though Scott did a good job with CP3 so maybe he knows something about PGs.

Really, LeBron was a godsend for Kyrie and I say that as someone who is often still very critical of James. He may very well have altered the arc of Kyrie's career. And, really, that's what great players should do when they have a chance to mentor other great young players.

[warriorfan]

Kyrie is better than Klay and Draymond

[BigKAT]

Kyrie is better than Klay and Draymond

I think he is better then both of them on offense.

But Draymond's Playmaking/Defense...? I dunno about that.

Overall I think Draymond's contribution is silghtly better.
And I don't mean that as a slight for Irving, there's only so much you can do on team defense when you're 6'3.

[Nilocon165]

Kyrie is better than Klay and Draymond
You forgot Curry

[Ben Simmons]

Kyrie is better than Klay and Draymond
Is he better than Curry?

[CTbasketball92]

I think he is better then both of them on offense.

But Draymond's Playmaking/Defense...? I dunno about that.

Overall I think Draymond's contribution is silghtly better.
And I don't mean that as a slight for Irving, there's only so much you can do on team defense when you're 6'3.

I see what you mean, but ultimately, scoring is a good deal more important than those things. If you can torch any team under almost any circumstances as a scorer, you're probably better than the "good" all around player who has average to-solid/good scoring. I say that to say: LeBron doesn't win the finals this year if kyrie and Draygod switch places. Draymond is an awesome player, but you will never win a chip if your first or second best player can't an efficient 22 points per game in the playoffs. Draymond can't do that, so he isn't as impactful as Kyrie, who just won the chip w. LeBron with a neutralized third option and role players who weren't consistent producers.

Draygod is a great piece though, and in my opinion, a top 20-25 player all things considered. Klay is awesome too.

Edit: I think if you put Kyrie next to any other top 10-15 player, you've got yourself a team that can hang around with anyone. Draymond Green? not so much.

[BigKAT]

I see what you mean, but ultimately, scoring is a good deal more important than those things. If you can torch any team under almost any circumstances as a scorer, you're probably better than the "good" all around player who has average to-solid/good scoring. I say that to say: LeBron doesn't win the finals this year if kyrie and Draygod switch places. Draymond is an awesome player, but you will never win a chip if your first or second best player can't an efficient 22 points per game in the playoffs. Draymond can't do that, so he isn't as impactful as Kyrie, who just won the chip w. LeBron with a neutralized third option and role players who weren't consistent producers.

Draygod is a great piece though, and in my opinion, a top 20-25 player all things considered. Klay is awesome too.

Look, you have a very valid point here.
And I agree with -most- of what you say,
But I -do- think you can get a Championship without a 20+ PPG 2nd fiddle.

Scottie Pippen - 16.8 in 96', 19 in 97' and 16 in 98'
Pau gasol - 18.9 in 09' and 18.3 in 10'.

I think Kyrie's a beast,
But let's say that you switch him and Draymond, yeah, they probably don't win this chip, but that's more due to the way Cleveland was assembled,

Edit: Just saw your edit. Yeah, I agree, Draymond is a System player. But I really think these are the kind of players that help you win championship. Kyrie on the other hand on the wrong team would be a mess. He has yet to prove he can win without Lebron, even to get to the playoff in the east. I mean, John wall has dragged Washington to the playoffs. I dont' think Kyrie would've done that for Cleveland sans bron.

[CTbasketball92]

Look, you have a very valid point here.
And I agree with -most- of what you say,
But I -do- think you can get a Championship without a 20+ PPG 2nd fiddle.

Scottie Pippen - 16.8 in 96', 19 in 97' and 16 in 98'
Pau gasol - 18.9 in 09' and 18.3 in 10'.

I think Kyrie's a beast,
But let's say that you switch him and Draymond, yeah, they probably don't win this chip, but that's more due to the way Cleveland was assembled,

Edit: Just saw your edit. Yeah, I agree, Draymond is a System player. But I really think these are the kind of players that help you win championship. Kyrie on the other hand on the wrong team would be a mess. He has yet to prove he can win without Lebron, even to get to the playoff in the east. I mean, John wall has dragged Washington to the playoffs. I dont' think Kyrie would've done that for Cleveland sans bron.

I understand that idea, but that Cavs team -- minus Kyrie -- was one of the worst I've ever seen. To put it into perspective, Bradley Beal (Wall's back court mate) just signed a contract worth $25 million a year. CJ McCollum (Lillard's backcourt mate) just signed a deal for i think $22 million a year. Dion Waiters, who was the second most reliable scorer on the cleveland roster, just signed a deal worth $3.9 million per year in Miami. Let that sink in.

With that in mind, the Cavs record did improve with Irving in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014, and considering that, his advanced stats, him being arguably the second best player in the playoffs this year and the eye test, I think it's unfair to say Kyrie couldn'tve led an adequate team to the Eastern Conference finals. Give kyrie a bradley beal, or a CJ McCollum and a few role players like MArcin Gortat, Trevor Ariza and a still-useful player like Paul Pierce two years ago, I think Kyrie could definitely have led the Cavs to a playoff birth. Instead, he got a broken down and disinterested Andrew Bynum, a broken down Andy V. and Dion Waiters.

Technically, Stephen Curry hasn't proven he can lead a team without multiple star players, or at least a bunch of great role players. But based on his stats and what he's shown he can do with his skills, we can reasonably assume he's capable of leading a solid team to the playoffs. I think Kyrie's playoff run and his play from last year when the current iteration of the cavs were finally together (sans LeBron), should tell us that he's capable of taking an ok team to the playoffs in the east. A bit of a jump, but still, i just never bought that narrative.

[BigKAT]

I understand that idea, but that Cavs team -- minus Kyrie -- was one of the worst I've ever seen. To put it into perspective, Bradley Beal (Wall's back court mate) just signed a contract worth $25 million a year. CJ McCollum (Lillard's backcourt mate) just signed a deal for i think $22 million a year. Dion Waiters, who was the second most reliable scorer on the cleveland roster, just signed a deal worth $3.9 million per year in Miami. Let that sink in.

With that in mind, the Cavs record did improve with Irving in 2012-2013 and 2013-2014, and considering that, his advanced stats, him being arguably the second best player in the playoffs this year and the eye test, I think it's unfair to say Kyrie couldn'tve led an adequate team to the Eastern Conference finals. Give kyrie a bradley beal, or a CJ McCollum and a few role players like MArcin Gortat, Trevor Ariza and a still-useful player like Paul Pierce two years ago, I think Kyrie could definitely have led the Cavs to a playoff birth. Instead, he got a broken down and disinterested Andrew Bynum, a broken down Andy V. and Dion Waiters.

Technically, Stephen Curry hasn't proven he can lead a team without multiple star players, or at least a bunch of great role players. But based on his stats and what he's shown he can do with his skills, we can reasonably assume he's capable of leading a solid team to the playoffs. I think Kyrie's playoff run and his play from last year when the current iteration of the cavs were finally together (sans LeBron), should tell us that he's capable of taking an ok team to the playoffs in the east. A bit of a jump, but still, i just never bought that narrative.

Okay.
I'll admit it.
You convinced me.

I guess that having you 2nd best player be Dion Waters is not the same as him being Most improved player of the year or a MAX SG in beal. (Though Max isn't as impressive as it used to be.)

I'll give you this one, good talking to ya.