Did Jordan marginalize/stunt Pippen's growth as

[AirBonner]

An offensive player by burdening him with a heavier defensive load?

[LostCause]

This forum reaches a new level of stupid every day

Good job

[Paul George 24]

An offensive player by burdening him with a heavier defensive load?
NO,BECAUSE PIPPEN CAN'T BE 1ST OPTION & LEADER LIKE JORDAN DID
SO JORDAN GIVE A JOB THAT PIPPEN'S CAPABLE TO DO

[AirBonner]

NO,BECAUSE PIPPEN CAN'T BE 1ST OPTION & LEADER LIKE JORDAN DID
SO JORDAN GIVE A JOB THAT PIPPEN'S CAPABLE TO DO
He led the Bulls to 55 wins without Jordan. He was definitely capable of being a 1st option

[Paul George 24]

He led the Bulls to 55 wins without Jordan. He was definitely capable of being a 1st option
HE GOT 2 ALL STARS REVERSE GRANT & B.J AMSTRONG:banana:
PLUS HE CHOKED AGAINST KNICKS,SCORES 13 PTS IN GAME7 IN 1994 :lol

PIPPEN LED THE BULLS TO 35WINS 31 LOSE BEFORE JORDAN BACK IN 1995 :oldlol:
JORDAN & RODMAN WITH NO STARS LED THE BULLS TO 24WINS 11 LOSES:bowdown:
1989 EAST CONF. HE CHOKED COST THE BULLS LOST AGAINST PISTONS.........

http://n2.hk/d/attachments/day_160818/20160818_68c90dd818cfd0bae7f5Wst2LQK21HAA.jpg

http://n2.hk/d/attachments/day_160816/20160816_906acadbaf300fcba5fc9L8fz5UC2Pyc.jpg

[Sarcastic]

His max was 22ppg. Team with that as first option is a second round team at best; 0 rings.

[Paul George 24]

PIPPEN'S PLAYOFFS CAREER HIGH 30PTS,EVEN LOWER THAN KAWHI'S :roll:

[Dragonyeuw]

He led the Bulls to 55 wins without Jordan. He was definitely capable of being a 1st option

Phil Jackson also thought Toni Kukoc was a better last-shot option in the playoffs. Pippen was a great all-around player, none of the things that held him back from being a dominant scorer( handles suited to transition but not ISO in the half-court) or streaky shooting were due to MJ's presence. Nor did he have the mentality. I don't see where 'concentrating' on defense means he couldn't develop offensive skills alongside them, and if anything playing next to MJ should have enhanced his offensive skillset if he spent that much time around MJ and already had the natural talent and abilities.

On the flipside, considering how much of Pippen's reputation is based on defense, it's interesting that defending MJ every day enhancing his natural aptitude/talents has been omitted from the discussion.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Crazy how Pippen had a way more successful playoff career without Jordan, than Jordan did without him. I have to really question Jordan's impact on the game. He didn't start winning titles until Bird's back went out, and Magic got AIDS. Not to mention the league was watered down with expansion teams. Hell, every team LeBron beat in the Finals was much more talented than every team Jordan beat in the Finals. Good Lord, could you imagine what LeBron would had done to the Jazz or Blazers? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[LostCause]

Crazy how Pippen had a way more successful playoff career without Jordan, than Jordan did without him

That's because by the time Jordan left Pippen the Bulls actually had a roster, instead of what Jordan was drafted to. Use your brain, as hard as that may be


I have to really question Jordan's impact on the game. He didn't start winning titles until Bird's back went out, and Magic got AIDS

That's like saying Lebron didn't start winning titles until Ben Wallace/Larry Brown left the Pistons, Thibodeau left the Celtics and everyone else aged into role players

No one makes that argument (Although they can, as they are easily verifiable facts) because it's stupid, but lo and behold, you came right out and did it. Not surprising


Not to mention the league was watered down with expansion teams.

Funny thing about this is that even with expansion teams, the league overall had a lower number of teams with losing records than it has in more recent years. In fact you have teams outright tanking (Sixers) and setting records for being bad (Nets)

Cream of the crop rises to the top. Expansion argument is a weak argument, the best teams were still the best teams


Hell, every team LeBron beat in the Finals was much more talented than every team Jordan beat in the Finals. Good Lord, could you imagine what LeBron would had done to the Jazz or Blazers? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

BOTH Jazz teams actually rank higher than every Finals team Lebron has faced except the 13-14 Spurs by Elo ratings. Defensively, Utah had the highest playoff DRating of ANY team either James or Jordan faced in the Finals. I cited playoff ratings since, you know, you went to the lame expansion argument

(Overall, though, Lebron has faced better defenses in the Finals throughout his career than his Jordan, but Utah had the highest Playoff DRTG of either opponent)

[Da_Realist]

(Overall, though, Lebron has faced better defenses in the Finals throughout his career than his Jordan, but Utah had the highest Playoff DRTG of either opponent)

It's flag football in comparison to what MJ dealt with.

[LostCause]

As far as Finals opponents, Lebron has faced better defenses on average, though if you go and start averaging out the defenses they've faced in their overall playoff runs then Jordans argument is just as good if not better than Lebrons

[SilkkTheShocker]

Hold on, Jordan stans on here really believe any of those the teams he beat in the Finals would beat the 73 win Warriors? :oldlol:

[andgar923]

As far as Finals opponents, Lebron has faced better defenses on average, though if you go and start averaging out the defenses they've faced in their overall playoff runs then Jordans argument is just as good if not better than Lebrons
Context please

Numbers are skewed in this era's favor because there are more 3pt shots and less paint attempts. And even then all one has to do is look at how teams played MJ vs how they played Bron.

Forget about the physical play. Bron has almost always been played with
1 defender, often times isolated in the wing with clear outs.

MJ was double and triple teamed on most possessions, far more than Bron ever has.

Context

[LostCause]

Hold on, Jordan stans on here really believe any of those the teams he beat in the Finals would beat the 73 win Warriors? :oldlol:

ITT: SilkkTheShocker proves he can't read
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-best-nba-teams-of-all-time-according-to-elo/

The 15-16 Warriors aren't included there but they were here after Game 2 of the WCF
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-warriors-still-arent-the-best-team-ever/

Don't know what their final rating would be after the Finals but if they rank higher than Utah that doesn't change much as far as what I said above. Fact is no matter how you slice it, or whether that Warriors team was better than any team Jordan faced, this statement:


Hell, every team LeBron beat in the Finals was much more talented than every team Jordan beat in the Finals

Was flat out wrong, clearly showing that you probably didn't get into hoops until 08 or 09

[andgar923]

Hold on, Jordan stans on here really believe any of those the teams he beat in the Finals would beat the 73 win Warriors? :oldlol:
With ease.

Those teams would render The Splash Brothers to worse performances.

[LostCause]

Context please

Numbers are skewed in this era's favor because there are more 3pt shots and less paint attempts. And even then all one has to do is look at how teams played MJ vs how they played Bron.

Forget about the physical play. Bron has almost always been played with
1 defender, often times isolated in the wing with clear outs.

MJ was double and triple teamed on most possessions, far more than Bron ever has.

Context
There are differences in offensive schemes, defensive rules, pace, etc. Frankly, I just go with the assumption that these differences are ultimately zero sum.

Here's the page (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&lg_id=NBA&year_min=1991&year_max=2016&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&round_id=&best_of=&team_seed_cmp=eq&team_seed=&opp_seed_cmp=eq&opp_seed=&is_range=N&game_num_type=team&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_overtime=&c1stat=fg&c1comp=gt&c1val=500&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c5val=&order_by=opp_off_rtg)
I only compared their Finals opponents and how their DRTG's compared in the playoffs and from that Lebrons opponents on averaged rated higher than Jordans. On average, Lebrons teams placed at 45, while Jordans was at 64, so there's a pretty sizable margin there. However, Utah and SEA ranked favorably against the teams Bron has faced defensively.

[andgar923]

There are differences in offensive schemes, defensive rules, pace, etc. Frankly, I just go with the assumption that these differences are ultimately zero sum.

Here's the page (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&lg_id=NBA&year_min=1991&year_max=2016&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=Y&round_id=&best_of=&team_seed_cmp=eq&team_seed=&opp_seed_cmp=eq&opp_seed=&is_range=N&game_num_type=team&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_overtime=&c1stat=fg&c1comp=gt&c1val=500&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c5val=&order_by=opp_off_rtg)
I only compared their Finals opponents and how their DRTG's compared in the playoffs and from that Lebrons opponents on averaged rated higher than Jordans. On average, Lebrons teams placed at 45, while Jordans was at 64, so there's a pretty sizable margin there. However, Utah and SEA ranked favorably against the teams Bron has faced defensively.
Misleading numbers as f* k

But if I were to entertain those stats, the Spurs were guarding Bron with ONE player almost exclusively, at times with Boris f*kin Diaw!!!! A fat slow ghostbusters extra.

And an old out of prime Duncan.

[Da_Realist]

In 1998, Utah swept a Lakers team so stacked young Kobe was coming off the bench. Shaq at this point was a 6 year veteran and had already led a different team to the Finals. SWEPT.

The same team was slaughtered by 42 points in the Finals.

[LostCause]

These kids didn't pay attention to hoops until 09. They probably believe every team from the 90s, 80s, 70s and so on sucks because the players that played on them are old now :lmao

[Bankaii]

With ease.

Those teams would render The Splash Brothers to worse performances.
And here's the dumbest post of the day.:applause:

[andgar923]

And here's the dumbest post of the day.:applause:
We saw how they struggled in the finals, imagine a more disci0lined versatile defensive team?

Without an interior threat the Bullls would focus their defense on the perimeter and make it more difficult for them,

[Bankaii]

We saw how they struggled in the finals, imagine a more disci0lined versatile defensive team?

Without an interior threat the Bullls would focus their defense on the perimeter and make it more difficult for them,
None of the teams Jordam faced are in the same league defensively, stop it.

You act like every team in the league didn't focus strictly on the Warriors perimeter game, it still didn't stop them. And the Warriors were dominating the Cavs 3-1. It took Lebron reaching a level that only maybe 5 people have reached in the Finals in history. Along with Kyrie having a ridiculous scoring series.

The Warriors were a minute a away from being back to back champs and having an extremely strong argument for GOAT team. Take your nostalgia goggles off and try to be objective for once.

[Lebron23]

2016 Warriors were better than any teams that Jordan beat in the NBA Finals. Juts watch the games.

[andgar923]

None of the teams Jordam faced are in the same league defensively, stop it.

You act like every team in the league didn't focus strictly on the Warriors perimeter game, it still didn't stop them. And the Warriors were dominating the Cavs 3-1. It took Lebron reaching a level that only maybe 5 people have reached in the Finals in history. Along with Kyrie having a ridiculous scoring series.

The Warriors were a minute a away from being back to back champs and having an extremely strong argument for GOAT team. Take your nostalgia goggles off and try to be objective for once.
suck my D*ck

[Da_Realist]

The Warriors were a minute a away from being back to back champs and having an extremely strong argument for GOAT team. Take your nostalgia goggles off and try to be objective for once.

If the Warriors were truly that good, they wouldn't have lost to Cleveland. Let alone give up a 3-1 lead. And they wouldn't have almost lost to OKC. The "GOAT" team got blown out every other game. They weren't the GOAT team even if they had squeaked by Cleveland.

[jayfan]

This forum reaches a new level of stupid every day

Good job

.
.

[Duncan21formvp]

2016 Warriors were better than any teams that Jordan beat in the NBA Finals. Juts watch the games.
No they weren't they were down 3-1 in the series before. That's the equivalent of the 1997 Miami Heat

[Poetry]

In 1998, Utah swept a Lakers team so stacked young Kobe was coming off the bench.

That Jazz team went through Barkley, Hakeem, Drexler, Willis, Robinson, Duncan, Shaq, Eddie Jones, Van Exel, Kobe, and then ran into the Bulls.

[Sarcastic]

2016 Warriors were better than any teams that Jordan beat in the NBA Finals. Juts watch the games.


They're the most overrated team probably in NBA history. The only good healthy team they beat in 2 years was OKC, and it took them 7 games, and nearly lost. Pelicans suck and were hurt. Memphis was injured. Rockets were injured. Cavs were injured. Houston this year was trash. Portland didn't even deserve to beat the Clippers, and still had double digit leads on them in many games.

Literally the only decent team GS has beaten in 2 years is 55 win OKC :lol who are a bunch of fcking chokers.