WAIT.. LeBron gets crucified for his 2011 Finals, yet Wade gets praised for his 2013?

[Dray n Klay]

Something doesn't add up.....

:wtf:



LeBron gets crucified for averaging 17.8 points 7 rebounds and 7 assists on 47% shooting in the 2011 Finals.




Wade gets praised like a God for averaging 19.6 points 4 assists and 4 rebounds on 47% in the 2013 Finals.








So LeBron in 2011 was clearly better than Wade in 2013, but LeBron gets criticized while Wade gets praised.



Seems like a hilarious double standard :confusedshrug:

[IllegalD]

Is Wade being dubbed the GOAT or better than Jordan?

NO! He isn't even considered a Top 15 player.

Context matters, Simon, you f*cking Wichita inbred retard.

Now get off the boards and go face your fears of being stuffed into lockers by black guys so you can get your HS diploma and move out of your mom's trailer once and for all.

:roll: :banana:

[Dray n Klay]

*AlittleD meltdown sighting*

[keep-itreal]

Is Wade being dubbed the GOAT or better than Jordan?

NO! He isn't even considered a Top 15 player.

Context matters, Simon, you f*cking Wichita inbred retard.

Now get off the boards and go face your fears of being stuffed into lockers by black guys so you can get your HS diploma and move out of your mom's trailer once and for all.

:roll: :banana:
:roll: :roll:

[IllegalD]

*AlittleD meltdown sighting*


You have more posts in 6 months than I have in a decade. And that's just on one of your many alts.

LET

THAT

SINK

IN.

Simon, babyboy.

:yaohappy: :djparty :dancin :lebronamazed:

[Dray n Klay]

You have more posts in 6 months than I have in a decade. And that's just on one of your many alts.

LET

THAT

SINK

IN.

Simon, babyboy.

:yaohappy: :djparty


Ummm... do you have any proof I'm Simon?


:yaohappy: :hammertime: :hammertime:

[Lebronxrings]

You have more posts in 6 months than I have in a decade. And that's just on one of your many alts.

LET

THAT

SINK

IN.

Simon, babyboy.

:yaohappy: :djparty :dancin :lebronamazed:
you have posted for a decade and all have the posts have been crap. You are a terrible poster.

[IllegalD]

Ummm... do you have any proof I'm Simon?


:yaohappy: :hammertime: :hammertime:


Even if you weren't, and this WAS your "only" account. Does it change the fact that you have more posts in 6 months than I do in a decade? Nice deflection, b*tch.

:confusedshrug: :lol :banana:

[Dray n Klay]

you have posted for a decade and all have the posts have been crap. You are a terrible poster.


If AlittleD spent as much time writing his essays, as he does on ISH, he would've finished his Masters by now :yaohappy:


Instead he's 34 years old selling shrimp out of his moms car :hammertime:

[IllegalD]

If AlittleD spent as much time writing his essays, as he does on ISH, he would've finished his Masters by now :yaohappy:


Instead he's 34 years old selling shrimp out of his moms car :hammertime:


You average 16 posts per day.

:lol :roll: :banana: :oldlol:

[Lebronxrings]

If AlittleD spent as much time writing his essays, as he does on ISH, he would've finished his Masters by now :yaohappy:


Instead he's 34 years old selling shrimp out of his moms car :hammertime:
:hammertime: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:

[Mass Debator]

Lebron was in his absolute prime. Wade was 31 years old and hobbled by injuries.
After being down 2-1, Wade averaged 24/6/5/2/2 the next 4 games.

In the pivotal game 4, Wade racked up 6 steals. It was 86-81 at one point in the fourth, Wade scored 3 buckets in a row, got a steal on the other end, assisted Bosh to make the score 94-83, and stole the ball again moments later that led to a timeout for Lebron to enter the game. Up 102-90 with 1:45 left, Lebron then padded 3 more baskets in a row for the Heat. Wade was clutch and won that needed game.

In 2011, there were no Lebron moments besides showcasing the frozen one, guarded by Barea in the post, and outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh. He had the entire Mavs talk smack to him.

[I know you are]

Wade gets praised like a God for averaging 19.6 points 4 assists and 4 rebounds on 47% in the 2013 Finals.
[/B]


I actually never hear people praise him for this.

[aj1987]

Lebron was in his absolute prime. Wade was 31 years old and hobbled by injuries.
After being down 2-1, Wade averaged 24/6/5/2/2 the next 4 games.

In the pivotal game 4, Wade racked up 6 steals. It was 86-81 at one point in the fourth, Wade scored 3 buckets in a row, got a steal on the other end, assisted Bosh to make the score 94-83, and stole the ball again moments later that led to a timeout for Lebron to enter the game. Up 102-90 with 1:45 left, Lebron then padded 3 more baskets in a row for the Heat. Wade was clutch and won that needed game.

In 2011, there were no Lebron moments besides showcasing the frozen one, guarded by Barea in the post, and outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh. He had the entire Mavs talk smack to him.
G7 is underrated AF as well. 23/10/1/1/2 on 53% shooting.

[HurricaneKid]

Lebron was in his absolute prime. Wade was 31 years old and hobbled by injuries.
After being down 2-1, Wade averaged 24/6/5/2/2 the next 4 games.

In the pivotal game 4, Wade racked up 6 steals. It was 86-81 at one point in the fourth, Wade scored 3 buckets in a row, got a steal on the other end, assisted Bosh to make the score 94-83, and stole the ball again moments later that led to a timeout for Lebron to enter the game. Up 102-90 with 1:45 left, Lebron then padded 3 more baskets in a row for the Heat. Wade was clutch and won that needed game.

In 2011, there were no Lebron moments besides showcasing the frozen one, guarded by Barea in the post, and outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh. He had the entire Mavs talk smack to him.

Wade was -54 in a series his team won. If he had a good run for a few minutes it was MORE than offset by THE REST OF THE SERIES. The MEDIA was pretty much demanding he come off the bench by the end of the series.

[CeltsGarlic]

Even if you weren't, and this WAS your "only" account. Does it change the fact that you have more posts in 6 months than I do in a decade? Nice deflection, b*tch.

:confusedshrug: :lol :banana:

Post count gets lower when jeff deletes threads.

[aj1987]

Wade was -54 in a series his team won. If he had a good run for a few minutes it was MORE than offset by THE REST OF THE SERIES. The MEDIA was pretty much demanding he come off the bench by the end of the series.
Game 2, Allen, Battier, Haslem, and Bosh had a +/- higher than Wade's. They were better, right? Heck, Miller had a +/- equal to Wade's and he scored 0 points in the game. Yeah, he was better as well.

G7, Wade was a -2, even though he was arguably the 2nd best player on the floor.

But yeah, lets start a 40 year old Allen, who wasn't able to defend for shit in Wade's place, because he had a higher +/-. :rolleyes:

[LostCause]

Lebron was in his absolute prime. Wade was 31 years old and hobbled by injuries.
After being down 2-1, Wade averaged 24/6/5/2/2 the next 4 games.

In the pivotal game 4, Wade racked up 6 steals. It was 86-81 at one point in the fourth, Wade scored 3 buckets in a row, got a steal on the other end, assisted Bosh to make the score 94-83, and stole the ball again moments later that led to a timeout for Lebron to enter the game. Up 102-90 with 1:45 left, Lebron then padded 3 more baskets in a row for the Heat. Wade was clutch and won that needed game.

In 2011, there were no Lebron moments besides showcasing the frozen one, guarded by Barea in the post, and outscored by Jason Terry and Chris Bosh. He had the entire Mavs talk smack to him.

These dudes don't actually watch basketball games, they just glance statlines and make threads about them.

[Klay 3D]

Wade was -54 in a series his team won. If he had a good run for a few minutes it was MORE than offset by THE REST OF THE SERIES. The MEDIA was pretty much demanding he come off the bench by the end of the series.
Are you serious? Lebron needed Wade's confidence that game which changed the whole complexity of the series. Wade was hitting jumper after jumper when the Spurs were daring him and Lebron to shoot. Lebron after 3 games shot 38.9% from the field and probably less than 20% on jumpers. Wade also amped it up on defense and gave life to everyone. Give credit where it's due. You cannot compare 2013 Wade to 2011 Lebron. At least Wade averaged 20/5/4 which was around his season averages.

[LostCause]

Also, FWIW, 2013 Wade has better advanced stats than 2011 Lebron

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html#MIAadvanced::none
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-finals-spurs-vs-heat.html#MIAadvanced::none

Wade's Orating, Drating and Gamescore eclipses Brons (As well as defensive stats . Bron has the advantage in rebounds and a slight one in assist%, but he also has a significantly higher turnover% to go along with it (Almost 10% higher)

On/Off stats on NBA.com also show 2011 Bron being a massive liability defensively, far greater than 2013 Wade (Though 2013 Wade was a liability offensively, however when you count just the last 3-4 games for both players in the respective years 2013 Wade clearly outshines 2011 Bron)

[GrapeApe]

A few things. I'm not sure why you rounded Wade's assists and fg% down. His numbers were 20/5/4/2/1 on 48%. Second of all, Wade doesn't really get "prasied" for the 2013 finals. He struggled for much of the series, but he came up big in games 4 and 7. He mainly gets praised for stepping up at crucial moments, which he did. The other thing, as has been mentioned, is Wade wasn't a top 3 player in his prime coming off back to back MVP's.

[Hey Yo]

Also, FWIW, 2013 Wade has better advanced stats than 2011 Lebron

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html#MIAadvanced::none
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2013-nba-finals-spurs-vs-heat.html#MIAadvanced::none

Wade's Orating, Drating and Gamescore eclipses Brons (As well as defensive stats . Bron has the advantage in rebounds and a slight one in assist%, but he also has a significantly higher turnover% to go along with it (Almost 10% higher)

On/Off stats on NBA.com also show 2011 Bron being a massive liability defensively, far greater than 2013 Wade (Though 2013 Wade was a liability offensively, however when you count just the last 3-4 games for both players in the respective years 2013 Wade clearly outshines 2011 Bron)
Yet James still led the 2011 NBA postseason in win shares

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html

[LostCause]

Yet James still led the 2011 NBA postseason in win shares

http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-finals-mavericks-vs-heat.html
?

That's nice and all but it's irrelevant

The discussion is focused on his FINALS performance. He was clearly Miami's best player for every other series, which is why posts like this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12569919&postcount=27) deserve all the ridicule they get

[aj1987]

?

That's nice and all but it's irrelevant

The discussion is focused on his FINALS performance. He was clearly Miami's best player for every other series, which is why posts like this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12569919&postcount=27) deserve all the ridicule they get
Wade was better in the '11 ECSF.

[LostCause]

Wade was better in the '11 ECSF.

Looking at the numbers again, you're right
http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/2011-nba-eastern-conference-semifinals-celtics-vs-heat.html

[Dragonyeuw]

I don't recall Wade being praised for his 2013 finals, but Lebron was right in his peak/prime and experienced a 10ppg drop, and scored like a total of 8 points in 6 finals games. Wade, by 2013, was a clear second option and beyond his peak/end of prime/injured/getting older. They're not even remotely comparable situations, but then again bear in mind who started this thread.

[HurricaneKid]

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6

Someone show me in 2011 where the media is demanding LeBron come off the bench. Because it was PREVALENT in 2013.

[aj1987]

http://www.sbnation.com/2013/6/19/4444164/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-heat-spurs-nba-finals-game-6

Someone show me in 2011 where the media is demanding LeBron come off the bench. Because it was PREVALENT in 2013.
Again, Allen starting in Wade's place would've helped the Spurs win in 5. Allen was beyond atrocious defensively. How the heck do you expect a 38 year old to play 37 or 38 or how many ever minutes Wade played? Allen, Miller, and Jones were absolutely terrible defensively and were among the worst defenders in the team (the league as a matter of fact).

There's a reason why Spo stuck with Wade and there's a reason why Miami won. Sure, you can replace Wade, but his backups are WORSE.

LeBron in '11 was worse than Wade in '13 and it's a fact. Just learn to deal with it.

[Dragonyeuw]

LeBron in '11 was worse than Wade in '13 and it's a fact. Just learn to deal with it.

Especially relative to the point they were in their careers.

[Mr Feeny]

Again, Allen starting in Wade's place would've helped the Spurs win in 5. Allen was beyond atrocious defensively. How the heck do you expect a 38 year old to play 37 or 38 or how many ever minutes Wade played? Allen, Miller, and Jones were absolutely terrible defensively and were among the worst defenders in the team (the league as a matter of fact).

There's a reason why Spo stuck with Wade and there's a reason why Miami won. Sure, you can replace Wade, but his backups are WORSE.

LeBron in '11 was worse than Wade in '13 and it's a fact. Just learn to deal with it.

He provided spacing though. In game 6, when the Heat made their comeback, it was Allen who was there. Wade was incredible in his prime. By 2013, he and Lebron played almost the same way. They both liked to handle the ball and both were much better at driving and slashing than shooting. Whenever one was handling the ball, the other almost became redundant.

I remember the stats beyond posted throughout that series but when Lebron and Wade were on the court together, Miami actually got hammered. Interestingly enough, when the 2nd unit/shooters surrounded Lebron, the heat outplayed the Spurs.

It doesn't mean Wade wasn't a top 10 player. It just means in that particular year, and with all his injuries, the fit wasn't great.

[Hey Yo]

?

That's nice and all but it's irrelevant

The discussion is focused on his FINALS performance. He was clearly Miami's best player for every other series, which is why posts like this (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12569919&postcount=27) deserve all the ridicule they get
But if James played as badly in the Finals as you say, how was he still able to accumulate the most win shares for the entire postseason? How come Dirk or Wade didn't surpass him with their great Finals performances??

[Bankaii]

Wade sorta has a built in excuse as he wasn't that great for basically all of 2013 due to injuries. No one besides Kobetards praised him for that Finals.

2011 Bron in the Finals is more comparable to 2011 Wade in the 2011.
Wade fans can talk about Bron's choke in the Finals all day, but Wade was just as bad against the Bulls that year.

While Lebron did choke massively in the Finals, the Heat wouldn't have even been there without Lebron being clutch a round before while Wade shat the bed.

[Klay 3D]

2011 Bron in the Finals is more comparable to 2011 Wade in the 2011.
Wade fans can talk about Bron's choke in the Finals all day, but Wade was just as bad against the Bulls that year.
Wade notoriously struggles against his "hometown" Bulls so it wasn't out of character. He played really bad. I don't think choke is the word when he came up with some clutch plays during the series.

[aj1987]

He provided spacing though. In game 6, when the Heat made their comeback, it was Allen who was there. Wade was incredible in his prime. By 2013, he and Lebron played almost the same way. They both liked to handle the ball and both were much better at driving and slashing than shooting. Whenever one was handling the ball, the other almost became redundant.

I remember the stats beyond posted throughout that series but when Lebron and Wade were on the court together, Miami actually got hammered. Interestingly enough, when the 2nd unit/shooters surrounded Lebron, the heat outplayed the Spurs.

It doesn't mean Wade wasn't a top 10 player. It just means in that particular year, and with all his injuries, the fit wasn't great.
What good is the spacing, if he's giving up points on every trip the other way?

[WayOfWad3]

Unlike LeBron, Wade was actually able to raise his level of play to his usual performance once the going got tough. After the Heat were up 2-1 on the Mavericks, LeBron proceeded to post scoring games of 8, 17, and 21; he averaged only 15 ppg after his team was already leading in the series. And if my memory does recall, only one team in NBA finals history had lost the series after winning game 3 in a 1-1 series (it has since happened 4 times btw). In 2013, with the Heat down 2-1, Wade responded with a 32/6/6 game, followed by a 25/10 game 5, and then after a lackluster game 6 Wade posted an impressive 23/10 stat line in Game 7. Wade averaged 23.5 ppg once the pressure was truly on in the finals.
Wade however does not deserve to be praised for 2013 at all, that was a weak performance especially by his standards, but he showed why he is one of the greats and upped his level of play whereas LeBron James couldn't in 2011.
And let's not forget that LeBron was 26 or 27 and healthy when 2011 happened, whereas Wade was 31 and had 3 bone bruises in his right knee.
With all that being said, LeBron > Wade by a landslide, but don't lie to yourself about these finals

[ISHGoat]

You guys know im a lebron stan but even I'll be honest.

If Lebron played even average the Heat would have won. 2011 is on Lebron

[Bankaii]

Wade notoriously struggles against his "hometown" Bulls so it wasn't out of character. He played really bad. I don't think choke is the word when he came up with some clutch plays during the series.
This is getting ridiculous. Stop with the excuses for everyone else and then bitching about every little Lebron thing.

Wade was terrible, just as bad as Lebron in the Finals. There's no other way to spin it.

And what are you talking about?
In that 2011 RS Wade averaged 29/6/4 on 47% against the Bulls. How is that struggling?:roll:

[f0und]

Wade sorta has a built in excuse as he wasn't that great for basically all of 2013 due to injuries. No one besides Kobetards praised him for that Finals.

2011 Bron in the Finals is more comparable to 2011 Wade in the 2011.
Wade fans can talk about Bron's choke in the Finals all day, but Wade was just as bad against the Bulls that year.

While Lebron did choke massively in the Finals, the Heat wouldn't have even been there without Lebron being clutch a round before while Wade shat the bed.

wade struggled pretty bad against the bulls like lebron did in the finals. the difference is, is that wade made several clutch shots and plays in a close series. so while he struggled mightily, he still made big, timely contributions. lebron on the other hand, shat the bed through and through, especially in the clutch. not one single important contribution when it was winning time. nothing. all he needed to do was raise his game from explosive diarrhea to just regular poop and miami wouldve won.

[LostCause]

But if James played as badly in the Finals as you say, how was he still able to accumulate the most win shares for the entire postseason? How come Dirk or Wade didn't surpass him with their great Finals performances??

:facepalm You're reaching and you know it, fam

How about you tell me Lebron's WS for the Finals and how it compared to Wade's or Dirks, then I'll entertain this nonsense. Bron played badly for his standards (His own standards set in previous rounds of that years playoffs), he did not play better than Wade or Dirk. His defense was atrocious and he was incredibly passive/lost offensively

I never said Dirk or Wade had great Finals performances, by the way. Never mentioned Dirk at all, really. That's a strawman. What I showed was that Wade played a lot better than Lebron did, and that's not debatable

If you find inaccuracies in any of the information I posted, refute it with evidence. Seeing as Bron himself admits he played like shit, good luck

[Hey Yo]

:facepalm You're reaching and you know it, fam
Not a reach whatsoever.


How about you tell me Lebron's WS for the Finals and how it compared to Wade's or Dirks, then I'll entertain this nonsense.
Don't know and don't care. I'm sure both were better than "the guy who totally choked and was the sole premise of Miami's loss"



Bron played badly for his standards (His own standards set in previous rounds of that years playoffs), he did not play better than Wade or Dirk. His defense was atrocious and he was incredibly passive/lost offensively
Yes he did by his standards and never once did I imply that James played better than Wade or Nowitzki.


I never said Dirk or Wade had great Finals performances, by the way. Never mentioned Dirk at all, really. That's a strawman. What I showed was that Wade played a lot better than Lebron did, and that's not debatable
You didn't have to show Wade played better...that is known. Dirk clearly had the better series. But if Dirk played that much better (as did Wade) they surly should have surpassed LeBron in w/s.....no?


If you find inaccuracies in any of the information I posted, refute it with evidence. Seeing as Bron himself admits he played like shit, good luck

I realize he admits that.

But he did lead the Heat in scoring for 2 games and recorded a triple double in another

Yet he was the sole reason for Miami's loss???..............:rolleyes:

[LostCause]

Since you just demonstrated to me that you're clearly nothing more than a troll, I'll respond to you in kind


Not a reach whatsoever.

It is, it's irrelevant just like most of the shit you bring up. In fact after reading your response here, it's a red herring

I can google that for you (http://bfy.tw/7I0f)



Don't know and don't care. I'm sure both were better than "the guy who totally choked and was the sole premise of Miami's loss"


Quote me saying the bolded in this thread or drop the bullshit. If you cannot, then you're arguing against shit I never said. Know what that's called?
(https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman)


Yes he did by his standards and never once did I imply that James played better than Wade or Nowitzki.


Right, and you quoted this post (http://insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12570027&postcount=22) of mine why again? To argue he wasn't as bad as the cited numbers say he was, which you haven't done despite me asking you to in my last post?

Now you're talking about how he wasn't "solely responsible"??


You didn't have to show Wade played better...that is known. Dirk clearly had the better series. But if Dirk played that much better (as did Wade) they surly should have surpassed LeBron in w/s.....no?

No. Explain to me why they would for a single series weighted against the totality of the playoffs. Those numbers don't lie, they represent the impact Lebron had on the games in various ways. The very fact that those numbers exist yet Lebron still led the playoffs in Win Shares answers your question for you, so I don't get why you even asked it: He did play as the numbers suggest but no they didn't surpass him in WS

Unless you're saying all those metrics and advanced stats are wrong, and if you're saying that and being objective about it, why should we care about Win Shares?

In short, Lebron performed well enough in the previous rounds that his performance in the Finals wasn't enough to offset what he did throughout the playoffs. Just compare his total playoff numbers to his Finals stats and it illustrates this. Despite the big drop-off in the Finals, his overall stats are still good

(For example, his overall DRTG for the playoffs was 102, yet in the Finals it jumped up to 110. Ortg similarly dropped by about 10 points)


I realize he admits that.

But he did lead the Heat in scoring for 2 games and recorded a triple double in another

Yet he was the sole reason for Miami's loss???..............:rolleyes:

I didn't say he was the sole reason they lost (Bosh played bad too), but I don't think there's any debate if he played up to his own standards set prior in the playoffs they would've won the series

This whole response was built around you saying the bolded, while agreeing with me or "not arguing" pretty much everything else. If you just wanted to get that off your chest, there was no need to quote a post that never said or implied it

[Duncan21formvp]

Wade was the reason Miami won. His game 4 was the key. Also Ray Allen saved Lebron.