Lebron's "impact" EXPOSED

[3ball]

.
2007 Cavs


Lebron made the 2007 Finals by averaging 25 ppg on 41% in ECSF, and 26 ppg on 45% in ECF - these would be among the worst series of Jordan's career and wouldn't get him out of the first round, let alone make the Finals.



2008-2010 Cavs


In the 2009 and 2010 playoffs, Lebron led lottery rosters to the ECF and 2nd Round, losing both times to non-champions.. This is inferior to Jordan in 1989, when he took a lottery roster to the ECF and 6 tough games with the champion Bad Boys., Jordan led that exact same lottery roster to a 3-peat beginning in 1991 - Lebron has never taken a lottery team to a championship like Jordan did.



2011 Cavs (post-Lebron)


The 2011 Cavs lost Shaq, Mo Williams, Varejao, Zydrunas, and Delonte, which represented 52 ppg.. So Lebron's impact is smaller than Jordan's in 1999, when the Bulls fell to lottery after losing LESS players and production than the Cavs lost.. Also, the 2010 Cavs lost in the 2nd Round - going from 2nd Round to lottery doesn't compare to the Bulls going from 3-peat dynasty to 2nd Round team in 1994, and near-lottery in 1995.



2015 Heat (post-Lebron)


Since the Heat "superteams" teams relied on TALENT to win, they couldn't use great teamwork to compensate for Wade's injuries in 2014, like the Bulls did in 1998 when Pippen and Rodman were injured and disappeared in the Finals.

The Heat's lack of teamwork caused them to get blown away and exposed as a 1st Round-caliber team in the West, that fell to lottery in 2015 due to Wade/Bosh injuries.. Falling from 1st Round to lottery is nothing
.

[LostCause]

Insert Real14 "Mods???" post*

[Dray n Klay]

3ball, explain how the Heat went from 4 straight Finals, to straight to the lottery in 2015?


Remember, Wade missed more games in 2014 than he did in 2015



So the Heat were actually healthier in 2015

[Dray n Klay]

3ball, explain how the Bulls in 1994 were basically the same team without MJ (55 wins) as they were with MJ (57 wins)

[Dray n Klay]

3ball explain why the Cavs are 3-12 without James in the last 2 seasons, but play at a 60 win pace with him in the lineup

[Dray n Klay]

3ball, explain why Pippen still made the Bulls a contender without MJ, but MJ has a career losing record without Pippen

[3ball]

[I]3ball, explain how the Heat went from 4 straight Finals, to straight to the lottery in 2015?


The Heat were simply a horrible team in 2014, as evidenced by their record defeat in the Finals - they were a 1st Round-caliber team in the West, that fell to lottery in 2015 due to Wade/Bosh injuries.

Falling from 1st Round to lottery isn't remarkable or a big impact

[Wally450]

Explain a triple double in game 7 against a 73 win team?

[FKAri]

Explain 1-9

[Dray n Klay]

The Heat were simply a horrible team in 2014, as evidenced by their record defeat in the Finals - they were a 1st Round-caliber team in the West, that fell to lottery in 2015 due to Wade/Bosh injuries.

Falling from 1st Round to lottery isn't remarkable or a big impact

Playing dumb makes you look bad, ie. weak trolling






Everyone knows the Heat made the Finals in 2014, and the 3 years before that, so 4 finals in a row.



The series was also tied 1-1, so it was a competitive series.






They lost in the Finals, not in the 1st round.






A dropoff from Finals team to lottery is GOAT impact from LeBron






Otoh, the Bulls went from a 57 win team to a 55 win team without Jordan in 1994

[3ball]

3ball, explain how the Bulls were still a contender without MJ


Jordan's off-ball game allows teams to have great teamwork, plus he STAYS with his team to allow the growth of teamwork - so when Jordan leaves, he leaves teams with valuable teamwork developed on his watch.

Otoh, Lebron's teams are based on excessive talent realized from team-hopping, not teamwork developed from him STAYING, or an off-ball game - so when he leaves, the team can't offset his loss with teamwork.

I hope that makes sense

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan's off-ball game allows teams to have great teamwork, plus he STAYS with his team to allow the growth of teamwork - so when Jordan leaves, he leaves teams with valuable teamwork developed on his watch.

Otoh, Lebron's teams are based on excessive talent realized from team-hopping, not teamwork developed from him STAYING, or an off-ball game - so when he leaves, the team can't offset his loss with teamwork.

I hope that makes sense

So in other words, LeBron meant much more to his teams success than Jordan?


That makes sense


https://s33.postimg.io/5p6tkw1pr/paine_datalab_lebron_cast_2.png





Jordan had more help throughout his career than LeBron. Therefore Jordan had to do less than LeBron to win.







Jordans worst supporting casts are better than LeBrons best

[3ball]

Explain 1-9


Unfortunately, the 80's East wouldn't allow Jordan to make the Finals with Lebron's 2007 playoff stats.

Lebron averaged 25 ppg on 41% in ECSF, and 26 ppg on 45% in ECF - those would be among the worst series of Jordan's career and wouldn't get him out of the first round, let alone make the Finals.

Lebron's weak conference is also why his Finals appearances were achieved by beating HALF (http://i.imgur.com/CIu6gDI.jpg) the 50-win teams that MJ & Kobe beat.. Team-hopping within a weak conference simply isn't fair

[BigKAT]

Bloodbath.

[3ball]

Explain a triple double in game 7 against a 73 win team?


Lebron needed good performances in the last 3 games because he only averaged 24 ppg and 6 TO's thru four games.

And don't get twisted.. Lebron averaged the same rebounds and assists for the entire series - he achieved the comeback in the last 3 games by increasing his SCORING (24 ppg to 36 ppg) and decreasing his TO's (6 to 3)..

Scoring and turnovers are Jordan's two biggest advantages over Lebron - so Lebron needed to become Jordan to beat the Warriors - no surprise there.
.

[FKAri]

Explain beating a 73 win team without homecourt advantage in the finals while leading in all statistical categories for both teams.

[warriorfan]

Explain beating a 73 win team without homecourt advantage in the finals while leading in all statistical categories for both teams.

Golden State's three best defenders: Draymond Green(team's best defender), Andrew Bogut(team's only rim protector), and Andre Iguodala(prior year's FMVP) were all out of commission due to injury or suspension under dubious circumstances. The team that LeBron beat in the Finals does not accurately represent the record setting team that won 73 games during the regular season.

[BedroomBully]

So in other words, LeBron meant much more to his teams success than Jordan?


That makes sense


https://s33.postimg.io/5p6tkw1pr/paine_datalab_lebron_cast_2.png





Jordan had more help throughout his career than LeBron. Therefore Jordan had to do less than LeBron to win.







Jordans worst supporting casts are better than LeBrons best
I tried that already with him, he will just tell you to not believe that source. Anything that doesn't fit his agenda he will discredit.

[AirBonner]

Why couldn't Ordan win without pippen but lebron could without wade?

[3ball]

.
This list shows that Jordan won with weaker casts in 91' and 93' than Lebron ever won with (12' and 13'):



https://s33.postimg.io/5p6tkw1pr/paine_datalab_lebron_cast_2.png



Even though the list shows that Jordan won with less than Lebron, the list should be ignored because it doesn't consider the most important factor affecting the production of lesser players: TEAMWORK.

The list merely looks at stats and equates that with talent, even though teamwork affects the stats of lesser teammates more than anything else.. This is why guys like Steve Kerr have higher win shares than more talented players like Ray Allen - Kerr plays in a system that fosters greater teamwork.

[Hey Yo]

Lebron needed good performances in the last 3 games because he only averaged 24 ppg and 6 TO's thru four games.

And don't get twisted.. Lebron averaged the same rebounds and assists for the entire series - he achieved the comeback in the last 3 games by increasing his SCORING (24 ppg to 36 ppg) and decreasing his TO's (6 to 3)..

Scoring and turnovers are Jordan's two biggest advantages over Lebron - so Lebron needed to become Jordan to beat the Warriors - no surprise there.
Bulls needed MJ's replacement, Pete Myers', 81gms started and his 7-2-3 avg. for the regular season to get the 2nd best record in the East.


Bulls also needed Pete Myers' 7-2-3 avg over 10 playoff games in 1994 to get to game 7 of the ECSF.


BTW....Myers played in Italy for 2 seasons right before replacing MJ as the Bulls new starting SG.

[3ball]

Explain beating a 73 win team


Teams with the best regular season record and all the accolades frequently lose in the playoffs - so regular season record is a very poor gauge of all-time greatness.

The Warriors were 15-9 in the playoffs and were locked down repeatedly by the 80's style physicality and rebounding of OKC and Cleveland.. Many teams in prior eras would do the same.





while leading in all statistical categories for both teams.


Jordan averaged 36/7/8 in 91-93' Finals, which is superior to Lebron's 30/11/9 because Jordan only averaged 2.8 turnovers to Lebron's 4.5.. So Jordan's 1.7 fewer turnovers erases his 1 fewer assist, which means Lebron's 4 defensive rebound advantage is matched against Jordan's 6 ppg advantage on better efficiency.

Obviously, Jordan's 6 ppg on better efficiency is worth more than Lebron's 4 defensive rebounds against small-ball lineups.. Also, Jordan scored 15 ppg more than his 2nd option, compared to 1 ppg for Lebron - so Jordan faced greater defensive attention, yet he made all the game-winning plays for Pippen, whereas Kyrie made several for Lebron.

Finally, Lebron's assists and rebounds were constant the entire Finals, whereas he averaged 24 ppg and 6 TO's thru 4 games, compared to 36 ppg and 3 TO's in the last 3.. So scoring and turnovers were the deciding factors in the comeback, and those are Jordan's two biggest advantages over Lebron - indeed, Lebron needed to become Jordan to beat the Warriors.. No surprise there.

[warriorfan]

Lebron - indeed, Lebron needed to become Jordan to beat the Warriors.. No surprise there.

Note that LeBron only became Jordan in the last 3 games when Golden State was missing their 3 best defensive players. (Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, and Andre Iguodala)

[BedroomBully]

Note that LeBron only became Jordan in the last 3 games when Golden State was missing their 3 best defensive players. (Draymond Green, Andrew Bogut, and Andre Iguodala)
Green and Iggy played in both games 6 and 7 right? So why couldn't your boy close the deal? All he had to do was win one game!!!! Face it kid, they all choked the same way your mom does on the neighbor's big black kock while your dad watches hopelessly.

[Duncan21formvp]

Lebron also embarrassed the United States getting two bronze medals.

[KirbyPls]

Lebron also embarrassed the United States getting two bronze medals.

That's rich coming from a Duncan stan who, as the 2004 team's "best player" played like trash, then cried about "muh FIBA rules" and never played another Olympics.

System player gonna system player. :lol

[aj1987]

https://yoimjustsayin.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/nike_sp14_bhm_lebron_primary_original.jpg