How many wins if Lebron was on current Sixers or Nets in the WESTERN conference?

[3ball]

.
They would be a sub-500 team just like Jordan's early Bulls, who had a similarly untalented roster, in a similarly murderous conference

[Dray n Klay]

45-50 wins




They would be much better than the 30-52 record Jordan could only win :oldlol:

[JebronLames]

55 in the west. 50 in the east.

[Real14]

LeBron would fake a season ending injury during the 2nd week so the pressure can fall on the team.

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan made the playoffs winning only 30 games

Can you imagine?? :oldlol:





And now 3ball wants to argue MJ played in a 'murderous conference'



GTFO :banana:

[BedroomBully]

Jordan made the playoffs winning only 30 games

Can you imagine?? :oldlol:





And now 3ball wants to argue MJ played in a 'murderous conference'



GTFO :banana:
lol exactly! Didn't he make the playoffs one year with a below .500 record?

[3ball]

45-50 wins


They would be much better than the 30-52 record Jordan could only win :oldlol:


The Cavs went from 42 wins in 2005, to 50 wins in 2006, due to the addition of first team All-NBA defender and steals leader Larry Hughes (15/5/4), Ronald Murray (15 ppg) and Donyell Marshall (10 ppg).

That's more help than Jordan had from 1985-1987.. :confusedshrug:... and that's not even including 2-time all-star Zydrunas, Eric Snow, Varejao, Drew Gooden, sniper Damon Jones.

[LostCause]

Wouldn't make the playoffs in either conference, just like Brons teams failed to do before Mike Brown and All-Defense 1st Team player Larry Hughes joined him in Cleveland

[Dray n Klay]

Orlando Woolridge was a 20.7 ppg scorer on the Bulls in 1986


Woolridge by himself >>>> past prime Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall :confusedshrug:




LeBron never had the luxury of playing with a 20ppg scorer his first 7 years.




Jordans 1986 Bulls roster >> LeBrons Cavs roster, and Jordan could still only win 30 games



Pathetic :rolleyes:

[Dray n Klay]

In 1987 Jordan had NBA Hall of Famer Charles Oakley as a teammate, and STILL went below .500 (40 wins)



Charles Oakley averaged 14.4 and 13.0 rebounds a game :wtf: :eek:

Proof: http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/CHI/1987.html




Thats Dwight Howard numbers.




Could you imagine a 3rd year LeBron winning only 40 games with Dwight Howard on his team?? :oldlol:





Jordans 1987 roster is EASILY >>> LeBrons Cleveland roster




And Jordan won 40 games, while LeBron won 50 :oldlol:





This isn't even close

[3ball]

Orlando Woolridge was a 20.7 ppg scorer on the Bulls in 1986

and Oakley averaged 14/13 in 1987

LeBron never had the luxury of playing with a 20ppg scorer his first 7 years or a leading rebounder.


Woolridge and Oakley were nowhere NEAR being a top 3 player at their position in his conference (all-star), whereas Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star center (17/9 with 2.2 blocks).

So Lebron played with FAR better help relative to his competition than Jordan..

Ultimately, Jordan went 6/6 with just 1 all-star (Pippen), while Lebron is 3/7 with a whopping 6 all-stars (Zydrunas Illgauskas, Mo Williams, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving.... whew..).

[Dray n Klay]

Woolridge and Oakley were nowhere near being a top 3 player in his conference (all-star), whereas Zydrunas was a 2-time all-star center (17/9 with 2.2 blocks).

.


LeBron went above .500 when Z was an all-star (2005)


Meanwhile, Jordan went below .500 with 20.7 ppg scorer in Wooldridge :confusedshrug:



So LeBron still won more




Meanwhile Jordan has been below .500 multiple times with Far better help ( 20.7 ppg Woolridge and 14/13 Oakley)




Jordan only won 30 games and was below .500, while LeBron was above .500 with an all-star Zydrunas (42 wins)

[3ball]

LeBron went above .500 when Z was an all-star (2005)

Meanwhile, Jordan went below .500 with 20.7 ppg scorer in Wooldridge :confusedshrug:


Again - Zydrunas was much better relative to his competition (all-star) than Woolridge (nowhere near all-stars).

So Lebron played with FAR better help relative to his competition than Jordan..

Ultimately, Jordan went 6/6 with just 1 all-star (Pippen), while Lebron is 3/7 with a whopping 6 all-stars (Zydrunas Illgauskas, Mo Williams, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving.... whew..).

But don't be surprised - Jordan's first 3 rings required 30% more scoring and more assists than Lebron's 3 rings - I'm sure Lebron would be undefeated in the Finals if he scored 30% more and got more assists.

[Dray n Klay]

Jordan had 0 all-star or all-nba teammates in 1986, yet he won 30 games and got swept in the first round



LeBron had 0 all-star or all-nba teammates this season, yet he won 57 games and won the championship + FMVP






Why was LeBron so much superior than Jordan with an identical roster?/?


Answer this 3ball

[Dray n Klay]

Again - Zydrunas was much better relative to his competition (all-star) than Woolridge (nowhere near all-stars).





By your logic do you admit LeBrons teammates this season were bad since they were worse relative to competition (0 all-stars on their team)? :confusedshrug:

[3ball]

Answer this 3ball



I've answered all your questions and more.. Now you answer me a couple questions:



How come Jordan's first 3 rings required (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=416369) 30% more scoring and more assists than Lebron's 3 rings?

How come Jordan's Finals appearances required him to defeat TWICE (http://i.imgur.com/CIu6gDI.jpg) the number of 50-win teams as Lebron?



https://m.popkey.co/fe60f3/86qOe.gif

[Dray n Klay]

Ultimately, Jordan went 6/6 with just 1 all-star (Pippen), while Lebron is 3/7 with a whopping 6 all-stars (Zydrunas Illgauskas, Mo Williams, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, Kevin Love, Kyrie Irving.... whew..).

.


Playing dumb just makes you look bad.


Mo Williams was a sub in for the all-star game in 2009, once two all-stars got injured. So he never really made the all-star team (ie. voted a top 12 player in his conference)


And Kevin Love never made the all-star team while playing with LeBron




If we use your logic, Jordan played with all-stars Pippen, Rodman, Horace Grant, BJ Armstrong etc far more help than LeBron




So we see that Jordan played with multiple all-stars, 20.7 ppg scorers, and 14/13 big men and still only won 30 games.



Theres no excuse for Jordan going 30-52 with far better help than LeBrons 50 win teams :confusedshrug:

[Dray n Klay]

3ball adjust your stats for pace and drtg :sleeping

[LostCause]

Orlando Woolridge was a 20.7 ppg scorer on the Bulls in 1986


Woolridge by himself >>>> past prime Eric Snow and Donyell Marshall :confusedshrug:




LeBron never had the luxury of playing with a 20ppg scorer his first 7 years.




Jordans 1986 Bulls roster >> LeBrons Cavs roster, and Jordan could still only win 30 games



Pathetic :rolleyes:

>That moment when Dray n Klay proves once again he has no idea what he's talking about and just copy/pastes

Jordan played in 18 games in 86,and they went 9-9 with him. .500. 41-41 pace. That 9-9 includes a 5-game losing streak the Bulls went on because Jordan had his minutes restricted and played 13, 14, 15, 16 and 16 minutes in each of those games successively. Take those away and it's 9-5, which is .642, which translates to about a 52-53 win pace. So Jordan would've lifted that team to the 4th or 5th best record in the NBA had he played the full season. In just his second year

Amazing! On a team full of players who regularly did crack/cocaine and had a coach no one heard of!

Without Jordan, that team was 21-43. at .328. A 26-27 win pace

That impact.....

On the other hand, Lebron with an All-Star Center missed the playoffs twice in a row!

[3ball]

Mo Williams was a sub in for the all-star game in 2009, once two all-stars got injured. So he never really made the all-star team (ie. voted a top 12 player in his conference)


Lebron has played with 5 guys that were all-stars alongside him.. Jordan only 1.. Yet Jordan is 6/6 and Lebron is 3/7

Wow, I guess Jordan's nearly 6 point advantage in the playoffs on better efficiency is worth more than Lebron's 3 defensive rebounds.. (the 1 assist gap is cancelled out by turnovers)

Duh - Lebron would obviously be on a completely different level if he averaged 6 more points on better efficiency.... :hammerhead:

[3ball]

3ball adjust your stats for pace and drtg :sleeping


THRU 31 YEARS OLD. (linked to source data)




PLAYOFFS PER 100 POSSESSIONS



Jordan (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1985-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss
):I 43.9 pts..N 8.5 reb.. 8.4 ast.. 4.2 tov.. 2.9 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.1 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 119 ortg.. 29.6 PER
Lebron (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html):. 36.4 pts.. 11.5 reb.. 8.8 ast.. 4.6 tov.. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 47.8 fg.. 56.7 ts.. 115 ortg.. 27.7 PER



Jordan's first 3 rings required nearly 25% more scoring with equal assists and better efficiency than Lebron's 3 rings... :eek:

[3ball]

>That moment when Dray n Klay proves once again he has no idea what he's talking about and just copy/pastes

Jordan played in 18 games in 86,and they went 9-9 with him. .500. 41-41 pace. That 9-9 includes a 5-game losing streak the Bulls went on because Jordan had his minutes restricted and played 13, 14, 15, 16 and 16 minutes in each of those games successively. Take those away and it's 9-5, which is .642, which translates to about a 52-53 win pace. So Jordan would've lifted that team to the 4th or 5th best record in the NBA had he played the full season. In just his second year

Amazing

Without Jordan, that team was 21-43. at .328. A 26-27 win pace

That impact.....


http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/OoOoo.gif

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ur9l5v.gif%20alt=


https://media.giphy.com/media/xU8DHA9fpYk2A/giphy.gif

[Dray n Klay]

3ball, what if we look at all-nba teams?



LeBron had an all-nba teammate only 3 times (2011, 2012, 2013)





Meanwhile Jordan had an all-nba teammate 7 times




So Jordan had 4 more all-nba teammates but only 3 more rings :confusedshrug:



LeBron 3 all-nba teammates for 3 rings = 100%



Jordan 7 all-nba teammates for 6 rings = 85%



Thats the clear difference in their rings, Jordan had much more help, more than twice the all-nba teammates :biggums:

[Dray n Klay]

>That moment when Dray n Klay proves once again he has no idea what he's talking about and just copy/pastes

Jordan played in 18 games in 86,and they went 9-9 with him. .500. 41-41 pace. That 9-9 includes a 5-game losing streak the Bulls went on because Jordan had his minutes restricted and played 13, 14, 15, 16 and 16 minutes in each of those games successively. Take those away and it's 9-5, which is .642, which translates to about a 52-53 win pace. So Jordan would've lifted that team to the 4th or 5th best record in the NBA had he played the full season. In just his second year

Amazing! On a team full of players who regularly did crack/cocaine and had a coach no one heard of!

Without Jordan, that team was 21-43. at .328. A 26-27 win pace

That impact.....

On the other hand, Lebron with an All-Star Center missed the playoffs twice in a row!

Okay, then forget about the regular season and look at Jordans playoffs.


What happened?


A fully healthy Jordan and a 20.7 ppg Woolridge got swept by the Celtics in the 1st round :confusedshrug:


So Jordan had more help than LeBron, and still led his team straight to a 1st round sweep.












*btw Zydrunas only made the all-star team in 2005, and LeBron led him to a 42-40 above .500 record :confusedshrug:


Not LeBrons fault Jordan could make the playoffs winning only 30 games

[Bankaii]

It'd be hilarious watching Lebron haters try to claim how stacked the 76ers are because of "4 lottery picks including a #1 overall pick":roll:

Lebron makes every team stacked:bowdown:

[LostCause]

Okay, then forget about the regular season and look at Jordans playoffs.

What? Why? In a different thread you said the RS matters when trying to downplay Jordans impact when you were discussing the 94 Bulls winning 50+ (Despite them winning 3 rings the 3 years prior) as being detrimental to Jordans impact. You wanna forget it here though because it doesn't suit your argument? Lol


What happened?


A fully healthy Jordan and a 20.7 ppg Woolridge got swept by the Celtics in the 1st round :confusedshrug:


So Jordan had more help than LeBron, and still led his team straight to a 1st round sweep.

Against the eventual champion Celtics, one of the greatest teams of all time. Remember how I said Chicago would've been the 4th or 5th seed? Boston was the best team in the league with 67 wins

Jordan averaged over 22ppg more than Woolridge (Who it's hilarious you're mentioning BTW as I'm sure you know all about how reliable he was, doing crack and all. Great defender too) and shot over 10% better as well. Versus an all-time great team with a deep bench as well (5 Hall of Famers. Bron never dealt with a team this stacked)

Go right on ahead and be a hypocrite and ignore how Jordan lit up the series and almost stole a game or two despite his bad teammates. Though if you bash Jordan here then you out yourself as a hypocrite if you also try to excuse Lebron for the 2014 and 15 Finals. He played poorly in 07 and 11 so there's no excusing those, though

Go for it fam :applause:

On the other hand, according to YOUR graphic,
https://s3.postimg.io/p1gnoh4rl/paine_datalab_lebron_cast_2.png

Lebron LOST a FINALS series where his team was significantly better than the opposition (+5.1 Teammate rating for Miami, +0.4 for DAL). Not only that but Lebron performed worse than his own teammate. That's..... special :wtf:


*btw Zydrunas only made the all-star team in 2005, and LeBron led him to a 42-40 above .500 record :confusedshrug:


Not LeBrons fault Jordan could make the playoffs winning only 30 games

Ilgauskas made the All Star team twice. 2005 and 2002. Despite playing far more games than Jordan in both years with a Center who plays at an All Star level, Bron failed to make the playoffs once and barely broke .500 once

[plowking]

They'd win 50-55 in either conference and people would talk how stacked they are. Any other answer is rubbish and you know you're kidding yourself thinking otherwise.

[LostCause]

Yeah, no way Bron's getting 50+ wins with the Nets when he averaged 55 with the Cavs. One team is exponentially more talented than the other

[tmacattack33]

Lebron can do more than MJ with less...because he's a master of all trades. If his team doesn't have a rebounder, he'll get 10 rebounds per game. If they don't have a paint defender, he'll do that. Same with playmaking. Same with scoring.

This is why he was able to get on any team full of role players and take them to the Finals. And then when he left, they played awful.


Lebron on the Nets in the West? 7th seeded playoff team.

[Duncan21formvp]

They would be getting the #1 pick with Lebron there just like they got the #1 pick with Lebron in Cleveland and he was able to get a 27 ppg scorer in Kyrie the leader of the Cavs.

[ShawkFactory]

Wouldn't make the playoffs in either conference, just like Brons teams failed to do before Mike Brown and All-Defense 1st Team player Larry Hughes joined him in Cleveland
That was also Lebron as a teenager.

Bron from 09-present would look different on those teams and any other.

[GimmeThat]

more than half of the league make it into the first round of playoff each year

have fun looking up the impact/players actually still on the same team that drafted them when they make it there

[PP34Deuce]

The trolling on both sides is next level.... truly next level

[Just2McFly]

The Cavs went from 42 wins in 2005, to 50 wins in 2006, due to the addition of first team All-NBA defender and steals leader Larry Hughes (15/5/4), Ronald Murray (15 ppg) and Donyell Marshall (10 ppg).

That's more help than Jordan had from 1985-1987.. :confusedshrug:... and that's not even including 2-time all-star Zydrunas, Eric Snow, Varejao, Drew Gooden, sniper Damon Jones.

BAN THIS MAN

Holy f*ck this is a man worth message. This man just listed DREW GOODEN as an asset.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[greymatter]

Ilgauskas made the All Star team twice. 2005 and 2002. Despite playing far more games than Jordan in both years with a Center who plays at an All Star level, Bron failed to make the playoffs once and barely broke .500 once

Making an all star team just because your conference sucks incredibly badly at that position isn't an accomplishment worth considering. Dale and Antonio Davis both made all star teams. So did Tyrone Hill and BJ Armstrong. Only an imbecile would hold up Ilgauskas as an example of an elite center when he wouldn't have even been considered a top 10 center in the league in the 80s or 90s.

[MP.Trey]

Anybody saying anything positive about Larry Hughes in a Cavs uniform didn't watch the Cavs when he was playing there. This thread is such hot garbage. Nearly zero facts presented.

[greymatter]

BAN THIS MAN

Holy f*ck this is a man worth message. This man just listed DREW GOODEN as an asset.:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

You missed a few other names. Namely everyone else he listed except for Z and maybe Varejao.

[BigKAT]

44-48 wins.

But watch him recruit a few solid players in the next season after that,
50+ wins.

[3ball]

Lebron can do more than MJ with less...because he's a master of all trades. If his team doesn't have a rebounder, he'll get 10 rebounds per game. If they don't have a paint defender, he'll do that. Same with playmaking. Same with scoring.

This is why he was able to get on any team full of role players and take them to the Finals. And then when he left, they played awful.


Lebron on the Nets in the West? 7th seeded playoff team.
Do the Sixers or nets have a 2-time all star center on their team?

Do they have a 1st team all defensive wing and steals leader?

No they don't - but lebron's early Cavs teams did...

in addition to having a vastly better supporting cast than the Sixers or nets, the Cavs played in a very weak conference... so again - how would LeBron do with a sixers/nets supporting cast in the WEST?... he'd do the same as mj did or worse.. sub 500 team, barely make playoffs (although I think he misses playoffs)