Magic vs Chuck 88

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LoELfNFZaQ

Great editing, made me feel like I was watching an entire game and not just highlight clips.

Magic is on another level.

[DoctorP]

Magic is clearly better than LeBron or any player in this era. Barkley too.

[SouBeachTalents]

Magic is clearly better than LeBron or any player in this era. Barkley too.

This should be added to the dumbest things said on ISH thread

[FatComputerNerd]

Barkley would destroy everyone

He wasn't even afraid of Shaq: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vCaZkULds

[feyki]

Wreak havoc on the court vs Magic :applause:

[DoctorP]

This should be added to the dumbest things said on ISH thread

I know this board is owned by LeBron and Nike or whatever but the proof is in this video. Look how Magic orchestrates the offense and can also score at will. His left hand is awesome. LeBron can only bulldoze to he rim.

LeBrons the best now but Magic was a better player and it is easy to see.

And Barkley would easily own Cousins, Davis, Gasol...look at his motor.

[Round Mound]

Magic and Charles are two players that will never be duplicated again. Two Legends!

[K Xerxes]

I know this board is owned by LeBron and Nike or whatever but the proof is in this video. Look how Magic orchestrates the offense and can also score at will. His left hand is awesome. LeBron can only bulldoze to he rim.

LeBrons the best now but Magic was a better player and it is easy to see.

And Barkley would easily own Cousins, Davis, Gasol...look at his motor.

Magic being better than LeBron is certainly arguable. He's a greater offensive player, and arguably the greatest offensive player ever when taking into account the combination of scoring, playmaking and controlling the tempo of a game. But LeBron is a flat out better scorer (you can argue the means all you want, but the results are clear to see) and a far better defender.

Barkley has no case over LeBron. That's the dumb part.

[andgar923]

I'd take Magic over Bron as well.

Magic is just a better player in general. Bron's defense is better, but Magic's tends to be overlooked.

At the end of the day I'd rather have Magic lead my team, he does so many things better than Bron. Magic in this era would be a joke.

Imagine playing Magic with single coverage with clear outs? He'd be destroying his man with today's rules on an isolation clear out, they would HAVE to double him. But then he'd pick you apart with dimes, better than Bron would ever dream of.

Chuck today will probably be banned.

There is no way he can play in today's league, rules would have to be changed again to stop him. Anyone even that's tough enough to contain him will get kicked out so how will he be stopped? There may be 3-5 players league wide that can do a good job on him, but they'd either be in foul trouble or kicked out for attempting to play to his demeanor.

[DoctorP]

Fine maybe I went overboard with Sir Charles but he was a beast inside and could finish better than Bron. More finesse.

[K Xerxes]

Fine maybe I went overboard with Sir Charles but he was a beast inside and could finish better than Bron. More finesse.

Who could finish better than Chuck? Maybe Shaq? Wasn't chuck hitting 80% of his shots close to the rim for a lot of his career? Just insane. I don't think anyone's debating that he's a beast, but Bron's on another level overall.

[Round Mound]

Charles was a better scorer than Lebron per shot taken. Chuk had better post moves (actually had post play) and was a much better rebounder. Lebron was a better defender. Barkley was a better inside finisher and as a coast to coast players i have as a tie. Lebron was a better ballhandler and passer though.

[andgar923]

Who could finish better than Chuck? Maybe Shaq? Wasn't chuck hitting 80% of his shots close to the rim for a lot of his career? Just insane. I don't think anyone's debating that he's a beast, but Bron's on another level overall.

That's going overboard as well, he's not on another level overall.

One can make a pretty good case that Charles is even better. He wins 1 ring and he's not being laughed at.

And I'll take Magic over Bron without thinking about it.

[andgar923]

Charles was a better scorer than Lebron per shot taken. Chuk had better post moves (actually had post play) and was a much better rebounder. Lebron was a better defender. Barkley was a better inside finisher and as a coast to coast players i have as a tie. Lebron was a better ballhandler and passer though.

I dunno about being a better passer, if anything they're very close.

Bron's role was to be a playmaker, but Chuck saw the floor just as well and was perhaps better at reading and reacting (something I've criticized Bron for many times).

Like MJ and Magic, Chuck saw the double and triple teams before they materialized and made quick strikes, didn't pound the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited, and pounded the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited..... that sort of quick read and reaction time is very underrated and is a big component in being a great passer.

If Chuck was asked to be a distributor there is no doubt that he could average just as many assists as Bron.

[Jameerthefear]

I dunno about being a better passer, if anything they're very close.

Bron's role was to be a playmaker, but Chuck saw the floor just as well and was perhaps better at reading and reacting (something I've criticized Bron for many times).

Like MJ and Magic, Chuck saw the double and triple teams before they materialized and made quick strikes, didn't pound the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited, and pounded the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited..... that sort of quick read and reaction time is very underrated and is a big component in being a great passer.

If Chuck was asked to be a distributor there is no doubt that he could average just as many assists as Bron.
man u are really dumb

[Milbuck]

Peak for peak Lebron is better than either Magic or Barkley. Magic at least is close. There is absolutely zero argument for Barkley over Lebron. Like not even close to one either.

[K Xerxes]

That's going overboard as well, he's not on another level overall.

One can make a pretty good case that Charles is even better. He wins 1 ring and he's not being laughed at.

And I'll take Magic over Bron without thinking about it.

Magic and Bron is far closer than Bron and Charles. Actually I'll happily take Bron over Magic. Unlike you I don't wear some heavily nostalgia-tilted glasses.

Try taking them off at some point - you may actually begin to enjoy the game today without feeling the urge to disparage its players at every opportunity.

[andgar923]

Magic and Bron is far closer than Bron and Charles. Actually I'll happily take Bron over Magic. Unlike you I don't wear some heavily nostalgia-tilted glasses.

Try taking them off at some point - you may actually begin to enjoy the game today without feeling the urge to disparage its players at every opportunity.

Ummm.. nope, it aint nostalgia glasses.

They do things Bron doesn't come close to doing. Whatever advantages Bron has he doesn't do them significantly better.

The only argument one can make is Bron is a better defender. But Magic's defensive IQ is better than Bron's, Bron is just more athletic. Magic makes up for his one on one (aka guarding small point guards) defensive weaknesses with his high IQ stepping into lanes, disrupting the offense in the same fashion that Bron does.

Whatever advantages Bron has over Charles on the defensive end, Chuck makes up for with rebounding and intensity. Charles' intensity is unrivaled by Bron and can leave a bigger impact.

They're not nostalgia glasses, they're remembering how great they were and not being blind to Bron's obvious weaknesses.

There aren't many players I would take over Bron, past or present.

But Magic in a heartbeat, Chuck depending on what I need.

[Jameerthefear]

Ummm.. nope, it aint nostalgia glasses.

They do things Bron doesn't come close to doing. Whatever advantages Bron has he doesn't do them significantly better.

The only argument one can make is Bron is a better defender. But Magic's defensive IQ is better than Bron's, Bron is just more athletic. Magic makes up for his one on one (aka guarding small point guards) defensive weaknesses with his high IQ stepping into lanes, disrupting the offense in the same fashion that Bron does.

Whatever advantages Bron has over Charles on the defensive end, Chuck makes up for with rebounding and intensity. Charles' intensity is unrivaled by Bron and can leave a bigger impact.

They're not nostalgia glasses, they're remembering how great they were and not being blind to Bron's obvious weaknesses.

There aren't many players I would take over Bron, past or present.

But Magic in a heartbeat, Chuck depending on what I need.
You seriously have to be trolling.

[andgar923]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQjy22C8-9I#t=466.558907379

This game shows off a bit of what they could both do.

Some of those post moves by both players :lowdown:

Before I was an MJ stan I was a huge Magic fan, and Barkley was the one player that I feared the most as a Bulls fan. He controlled the game in so many ways and beat you with speed and power like no other player ever.

[andgar923]

You seriously have to be trolling.
You never saw Chuck or Magic play, STFU

[andgar923]

Peak for peak Lebron is better than either Magic or Barkley. Magic at least is close. There is absolutely zero argument for Barkley over Lebron. Like not even close to one either.

Why?

Because 'stats' say so?

Even then, we can go down the list of stats and they both have advantages over Bron.

They simply could do everything that Bron can do as good or almost as good, yet they both could do things that he couldn't by a significant margin.

This argument that Bron is far superior is a joke. We're talking about Magic easily in most people's top 5 not some scrub.

Charles has an argument as a top 3-5 power forward of all time! The power forward position is one of the most stacked positions of all time. But what makes him impressive isn't that he's a 6'8 beast, but a 6'4 monster athlete. He competed in one of the toughest eras for bigs in the toughest conferences, not the cream puff shit that Bron's competed in for his entire career.

So to be real, it aint as clear cut on who the better player is. Bron is def one of the top 10 all time and the best of his era, but he's not that clear cut when compared to Magic the GOAT PG and Chuck a top 5 PF.

[Round Mound]

I dunno about being a better passer, if anything they're very close.

Bron's role was to be a playmaker, but Chuck saw the floor just as well and was perhaps better at reading and reacting (something I've criticized Bron for many times).

Like MJ and Magic, Chuck saw the double and triple teams before they materialized and made quick strikes, didn't pound the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited, and pounded the ball, and waited and pounded the ball and waited..... that sort of quick read and reaction time is very underrated and is a big component in being a great passer.

If Chuck was asked to be a distributor there is no doubt that he could average just as many assists as Bron.


True :applause:

Prime Charles could do everything. Sadly it lasted not long:

Charles Barkley Greatest Games: Triple-Double (25/16/12) vs Hawks (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT-3UkbbyM

:bowdown:

[andgar923]

True :applause:

Prime Charles could do everything. Sadly it lasted not long:

Charles Barkley Greatest Games: Triple-Double (25/16/12) vs Hawks (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT-3UkbbyM

:bowdown:

Which is why he was hard to double down low. He was simply a GREAT passer so it was hard for teams to fully commit. Now, that isn't to say he didn't get doubled because playing that close to the basket (specially then) it's easy to get doubled. But teams still respected his passing, and he could hit you in so many different ways.

But what's impressive is how quickly he saw and adjusted, that's what matters the most. Because any player can eventually pass, but there isn't many that can read the defense and adjust in the blink of an eye.

Bron is a great passer under certain conditions. He has some weaknesses (when compared to the all time greats) when it comes to passing that Chuck didn't.

People can go ahead and bitch all they want, it doesn't change facts. It aint revisionist or nostalgia when the proof is there.

[andgar923]

True :applause:

Prime Charles could do everything. Sadly it lasted not long:

Charles Barkley Greatest Games: Triple-Double (25/16/12) vs Hawks (1993)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WT-3UkbbyM

:bowdown:
dat pass from chuck to Chambers at 1:05 :eek:
Dat pass to Majerle at 1:55 on a break :pimp:

[Round Mound]

Charles Barkley > Karl Malone. Period!

[Dragonyeuw]

Just as an orchestrator, Magic had the ball whipping around in the half-court, not nearly as much pounding the air out of the ball. That style transcended through the entire team. In transition, no comparison in terms of the entire team being a threat to score, Lebron no doubt is a more powerful finisher but just as a creator for his other 4 teammates, Magic is peerless. Everything else though, Lebron is ahead of Magic and simply impacts the game on both ends in a way Magic never did. Who I'd take depends on the makeup of the team, I'm inclined to say with 'average' talent, Lebron's 'fill in the blanks' skillset allows him to do more with less. A roster with star talent, based off what I've seen, Magic's the better pick to run such a team.

[andgar923]

Just as an orchestrator, Magic had the ball whipping around in the half-court, not nearly as much pounding the air out of the ball. That style transcended through the entire team. In transition, no comparison in terms of the entire team being a threat to score, Lebron no doubt is a more powerful finisher but just as a creator for his other 4 teammates, Magic is peerless. Everything else though, Lebron is ahead of Magic and simply impacts the game on both ends in a way Magic never did. Who I'd take depends on the makeup of the team, I'm inclined to say with 'average' talent, Lebron's 'fill in the blanks' skillset allows him to do more with less. A roster with star talent, based off what I've seen, Magic's the better pick to run such a team.
you yourself stated that Magic's passing abilities are contagious.

If you added Magic to the Cavs right now, you're saying they won't be able to be even better?

You stated Bron pounds the shit outta the ball, which we've all seen makes the offense stagnant. Now imagine Magic slicing down the defense with precision making Love an actual post player, getting Kyrie and Smith good looks, and the ball is just moving and grooving... imagine how much more effective the CAvs would be?

Same scenario...

Add Magic to the Heat and it's no contest.

Wade is a great and willing passer in his own right, Bosh was an all star franchise post player. Imagine Wade cutting, Bosh in the post with the ball zipping from side to side, inside outside instead of the pound dribble pound pound Bron style? heat would be nearly unstoppable in today's era.

I can't for the life of me see Bron with the Lakers.

Kareem would be shooting hook shots from the 3pt line, along with Worthy and everyone else. Isolations with Bron that would take up 20 seconds.

Bron simply doesn't have the same IQ as Magic, not even close to be honest. Offensively Magic was simply better. He was able to break down the defense and slide into seams, read and react before the defense knew what they wanted to do, post up was superior than anything Bron will ever dream of.

Magic>>> Bron

[Dragonyeuw]

you yourself stated that Magic's passing abilities are contagious.

If you added Magic to the Cavs right now, you're saying they won't be able to be even better?

You stated Bron pounds the shit outta the ball, which we've all seen makes the offense stagnant. Now imagine Magic slicing down the defense with precision making Love an actual post player, getting Kyrie and Smith good looks, and the ball is just moving and grooving... imagine how much more effective the CAvs would be?

Same scenario...

Add Magic to the Heat and it's no contest.

Wade is a great and willing passer in his own right, Bosh was an all star franchise post player. Imagine Wade cutting, Bosh in the post with the ball zipping from side to side, inside outside instead of the pound dribble pound pound Bron style? heat would be nearly unstoppable in today's era.

I can't for the life of me see Bron with the Lakers.

Kareem would be shooting hook shots from the 3pt line, along with Worthy and everyone else. Isolations with Bron that would take up 20 seconds.

Bron simply doesn't have the same IQ as Magic, not even close to be honest. Offensively Magic was simply better. He was able to break down the defense and slide into seams, read and react before the defense knew what they wanted to do, post up was superior than anything Bron will ever dream of.

Magic>>> Bron

Defensively is where Bron makes the difference, now how much of a difference compared to any edge Magic would have running those clubs, in terms of net results, is only something we can speculate on. Maybe I'm being prisoner of the moment, but when I think of Lebron coming from nowhere to block Iguodola's shot in game 7, that's just a dynamic that Magic wouldn't be able to bring to a team.

Now, in terms of playing with 'star' teammates, his style would blend better with someone like Wade, because Bron and Wade had many of the same attributes which made the pairing redundant at first. It was really when Wade relegated to supporting status from age/injuries that they reached their potential. But prime Magic and 2011 Wade are a more natural pairing, because that 'my turn' dynamic wouldn't be in play, they'd feed off each other much better. Magic would maximize Wade's already present off-ball skills while willingly taking a secondary scoring role. Bosh wouldn't be relegated to having to shift his game to being a spot shooter, he'd be able to play more of the game we saw in Toronto, facing up at the elbow and using his speed/agility against opposing Power forwards, and he'd be very effective on the break with Magic running down the middle.

[raprap]

LeBron would've been much more effective in the 80's

[NBAGOAT]

magic's portable as hell because of his playmaking and willingness not to shoulder the scoring load. That's not everything however, Lebron's still a better scorer, finisher, and even a shooter at his peak in Miami. Steve Nash is likely even more portable than Magic because of his outside shooting and is an perfect fit with wade and bosh and pretty much any great offensive player. That doesn't necessarily mean he's better offensively than Bron.

[andgar923]

LeBron would've been much more effective in the 80's
LOl no he wouldn't.

He doesn't know how to move without the ball, lacks post game, and can't even drive through traffic with any consistency.

He's not consistently aggressive enough and his offensive arsenal is immature compared to Worthy's. Bron is late in his career and still hasn't shown the nuances that Worthy had since he was at UNC, how the f*ck will he be better in the 80s?

The bigs from the past would render him to the bench.

[Trollsmasher]

exemplary '80s defense on the first play of the game

and it only gets worse

Bron would average 40/10 against these dumb fools. You can see nobody there with an exception of Magic (on offense only) possesses even an ounce of modern bball IQ.

the first 6 of 8 points for the Lakers are fast break points with no D played at all

[juju151111]

LOl no he wouldn't.

He doesn't know how to move without the ball, lacks post game, and can't even drive through traffic with any consistency.

He's not consistently aggressive enough and his offensive arsenal is immature compared to Worthy's. Bron is late in his career and still hasn't shown the nuances that Worthy had since he was at UNC, how the f*ck will he be better in the 80s?

The bigs from the past would render him to the bench.
Your a idiot

[andgar923]

Your a idiot
Lol

The f*ckin irony

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

With the exception if scoring, Magic has Bron on offense...and thats it. Everything else is either arguable or in favor of LeBron. What guy did this past finals...literally WILLING his team from a 3-1 deficit? I would argue not even a handful of ATGs could impose their individual brilliance in that regard, and the only other perimeter player would've been MJ.

Oh and HUGE lol @ Bron being 'rendered to the bench' in the 80s. This despite multiple HOFers and legends all saying dude would be even better in their era. :oldlol:

[K Xerxes]

LOl no he wouldn't.

He doesn't know how to move without the ball, lacks post game, and can't even drive through traffic with any consistency.

He's not consistently aggressive enough and his offensive arsenal is immature compared to Worthy's. Bron is late in his career and still hasn't shown the nuances that Worthy had since he was at UNC, how the f*ck will he be better in the 80s?

The bigs from the past would render him to the bench.

So LeBron can't drive through traffic consistently and has an immature offensive arsenal. Sounds like he should be tops a 15ppg scorer, right?

This is the thing that gets me. However awkward LeBron may look on offense, he is a devastating scorer. No one who puts up 25-30ppg EVERY SEASON is a poor offensive player, let alone one who raises his production in the playoffs. You can argue how pretty he looks all you want, but he is effective.

Before you put out the era argument, why is he literally one of a handful of players who can score as much even now? In his time in the NBA, who has been as consistent a scorer? Literally no one except Durant.

[andgar923]

Magic may not have been as exciting as Bron defensively but his IQ, timing were better.

Magic before his injuries was a 2 steal per game player. He always had a knack of disrupting the oponent's offense.

I think their defense is closer than most believe.

Bron couldn't have been as great back then, his game simply doesn't translate well enough for that era.

And just how there's been players that say he'd be better (I call bullshit on their behalf) we have others that claim he wouldn't (a small handful I'll concede but maybe they're the ones brave enough).

[K Xerxes]

The only argument one can make is Bron is a better defender. But Magic's defensive IQ is better than Bron's, Bron is just more athletic. Magic makes up for his one on one (aka guarding small point guards) defensive weaknesses with his high IQ stepping into lanes, disrupting the offense in the same fashion that Bron does.

What garbage. In his peak, LeBron was shutting down half of the court when he was locked in defensively. His help defense was ATG. Magic isn't even comparable. Whether that is a difference of athleticism or IQ is irrelevant. Or have you given them both a reliable defensive IQ test to see? Mind sharing your results?

Bron is quite clearly a far better scorer. This isn't particularly tenable.


Whatever advantages Bron has over Charles on the defensive end, Chuck makes up for with rebounding and intensity. Charles' intensity is unrivaled by Bron and can leave a bigger impact

Chuck is a better rebounder, I'll give you that. LeBron is better at pretty much everything else. If your argument comes down to 'intensity', you'll have to do better.


They're not nostalgia glasses, they're remembering how great they were and not being blind to Bron's obvious weaknesses.

Nope, it's remembering only the best aspects of the older timers and comparing that to Bron's weaknesses.


There aren't many players I would take over Bron, past or present.

But Magic in a heartbeat, Chuck depending on what I need.

If you prefer to end the season empty handed, Chuck is a good choice. :cheers:

[K Xerxes]

Bron couldn't have been as great back then, his game simply doesn't translate well enough for that era.

here's the issue with any era argument. Players are raised in the era that they play in, and tailor their games towards being effective in that specific era. LeBron has developed a game that is dominant in this era, culminating in the most titles, FMVPs, MVPs and pretty much all other awards and accomplishments since he has entered the league, while accumulating the best all-round stats. .

LeBron is the greatest of his era. So were Kobe/Duncan/Shaq So was Jordan. So was Magic/Bird. So was Kareem. So was Russell/Wilt. Now, Jordan was more dominant relative to his era than LeBron was, hence I believe Jordan is better. But to simply shift ability and skill directly to another era and judge it in a vacuum is ignorant to the fact that a player would probably develop differently in another era. I'm not even going to bother arguing that LeBron would be less/more/just as effective in the 90s as it is baseless speculation.


And just how there's been players that say he'd be better (I call bullshit on their behalf) we have others that claim he wouldn't (a small handful I'll concede but maybe they're the ones brave enough).

I don't see what particular right you have to call bullshit on their behalf. Even you know that's silly.

[andgar923]

So LeBron can't drive through traffic consistently and has an immature offensive arsenal. Sounds like he should be tops a 15ppg scorer, right?

This is the thing that gets me. However awkward LeBron may look on offense, he is a devastating scorer. No one who puts up 25-30ppg EVERY SEASON is a poor offensive player, let alone one who raises his production in the playoffs. You can argue how pretty he looks all you want, but he is effective.

Before you put out the era argument, why is he literally one of a handful of players who can score as much even now? In his time in the NBA, who has been as consistent a scorer? Literally no one except Durant.

But he doesn't consistently slash through traffic.

And the era argument does matter because the style of play and rules would reduce his current advantages.

Today he can dribble for 18 seconds, he wouldn't be able to do that back then. He would have to be faster with the ball, he would need to move without the ball which he can't.

People always praise his size, but he doesn't know how to use it consistently. Today's rules allow him to put his shoulder down and push people to get to the rim but his defenders are rendered useless because the rules don't allow them to be physical, you think past players under their rules would just allow him to back them up like he does now?

Today's lanes are to be cleared, he wouldn't have the same amount of space to operate back then that is a FACT. If he hesitates to go against Old Duncan imagine Thorpe or Willis in the paint?

Shit, he gets his shit pushed back by Green a number of times in a series imagine actual big men???

Part of what allows him to be as effective would be basically voided.

Not to say he'd be useless but he wouldn't be putting up the same numbers, he simply lacks the fundamentals to be as great in the past. Hate to sound like the old guy but it's true.

I can see someone like Melo doing just fine if not better in the past, but I doubt Bron would.

[tpols]

bron has andgar's feet to the fire haha .. defintion of old man yelling about back in his day .. i dont think ive ever seen the guy give a current player credit, and especially not any top tier whose coming off a championship, did the same thing for kobe, and now does it for bron lol. and I'll be the first to tell you about how LeBron has had the most fortunate paths, and a ton of help, but there's no denying his talent.. he's clyde drexler with like 30 lbs of extra muscle and a few inches of height, but seeing how clyde was a top player and add that much size and you get a wrecking ball that didnt exist back then, and hasnt really ever existed. 80s guys were lean, weight lifting was thought to be an impediment to a players coordination and finesse, so guys werent quite as jacked or strong on average.. i get they were meaner and get away with a lot more mental stuff and fighting, which lebron has shown to shy away from so he would still be liable to get punked .. but no doubt hed put up the most absurd statlines through 95% of it.

[Jameerthefear]

i seriously wonder if andgar actually legitimately watches basketball

[Mr Feeny]

bron has andgar's feet to the fire haha .. defintion of old man yelling about back in his day .. i dont think ive ever seen the guy give a current player credit, and especially not any top tier whose coming off a championship, did the same thing for kobe, and now does it for bron lol. and I'll be the first to tell you about how LeBron has had the most fortunate paths, and a ton of help, but there's no denying his talent.. he's clyde drexler with like 30 lbs of extra muscle and a few inches of height, but seeing how clyde was a top player and add that much size and you get a wrecking ball that didnt exist back then, and hasnt really ever existed. 80s guys were lean, weight lifting was thought to be an impediment to a players coordination and finesse, so guys werent quite as jacked or strong on average.. i get they were meaner and get away with a lot more mental stuff and fighting, which lebron has shown to shy away from so he would still be liable to get punked .. but no doubt hed put up the most absurd statlines through 95% of it.

Lebron is a bout 4 tiers above Kobe so there's quite a difference between the cases.

[Showtime80']

I think people need to chill on LeBron James a little bit, I said it myself a while back, before this year he was in the top 10 range for sure and now he's definitely locked in for top 5 all time. As a Lakers fan sorry to say Kobe is hovering around the 9-12 all time range and that's.

As far as the Era argument is concerned there is NO DOUBT in my mind that LeBron would've been a force in the 80's and 90's, just a freak of nature with very good basketball IQ and just a very well-rounded set of skills that would've shined on any team during that era.

The thing with that time period (1980-1998) to me the Golden Age for both the NBA and NCAA basketball, is that to make your mark in it you had to go through the MOST INSANE KILLER INSTINCT, OFF THE CHARTS BASKETBALL IQ HAVING, FUNDAMENTALLY PERFECT PLAYERS IN THE HISTORY OF THE NBA!!! Think about it, 18 of the 19 titles won from 1980 to 1998 were won by teams led by:

Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
Isiah Thomas
Hakeem Olajuwon
Michael Jordan

I'm sorry but prime for prime, those guys BLOW LEBRON OUT OF THE WATER!!! In terms of Basketball knowledge and KILLER INSTINCT!!!

Hell Shaq in the 1990's was ALREADY the most dominant, imposing physical specimen the NBA had EVER SEEN and he got his clock cleaned 4 STRAIGHT YEARS IN THE PLAYOFFS by OLDER VERSIONS OF Hakeem/Clyde, Jordan/Pippen and Malone/Stockton!

While LeBron's most impressive win has come against A SYSTEM TEAM focused on outside shooting and suspect defense led by two smaller guards in Klay and Steph!!!

LeBron is a great player, and would've been a great player in ANY ERA!!! But from 1980 to 1998 he would've been thrown in the MOST COMPETITIVEA AND PHYSICAL PERIOD IN NBA HISTORY!!!

Current LeBron would've been just another top 10 player in that era!

[Smoke117]

Magic is clearly better than LeBron or any player in this era. Barkley too.

Clearly better? Don't be a ****ing idiot.

[Dragonyeuw]

Magic may not have been as exciting as Bron defensively but his IQ, timing were better.

Magic before his injuries was a 2 steal per game player. He always had a knack of disrupting the oponent's offense.

I think their defense is closer than most believe.

Bron couldn't have been as great back then, his game simply doesn't translate well enough for that era.

And just how there's been players that say he'd be better (I call bullshit on their behalf) we have others that claim he wouldn't (a small handful I'll concede but maybe they're the ones brave enough).

Come on bruh, you know that's not remotely close to true. Bron is several tiers above Magic defensively. Magic played the passing lanes well, but averaging 2 spg is indicative of nothing other than playing the passing lanes well. He was a poor man defender, and zero presence as a shotblocking threat. The whole 'Bron can defend 5 positions' is a little overstated, you wouldn't have him guard a star PG or Center for an entire game, but in spurts absolutely. There's not one aspect defensively where you could say Lebron was 'poor' in. It's a credible discussion that Magic was a better offensive player( not SCORER, but offensively combining scoring, playmaking and passing), but defensively? Two different planets.

[NBAGOAT]

did you watch any of 2012-14 Bron? He was actually quite skilled. When you can shoot 40% from 3 on a decent volume of attempts, your shooting isn't bad and that's Bron's biggest weakness through his career. Keep in mind Bron was 25 when he left Cleveland for Miami which is the period when he gets the most flack for having an ugly game. Very few players are the complete package at that age. FYI, it's really hard to take andgar seriously about today's players. I still cant get over the super old thread where he has guys like Smits, Divac, and Duckworth over Howard.

[Charlie Sheen]

One thing stands out more than anything else in the OP. Magic was moving at a different speed than just about everyone else. Dude was fast with the ball in his hands. Not saying this to build up his legend. The opposite really. I have concerns that he wouldn't have such a clear advantage over the rest of the league in speed and conditioning.

[Dragonyeuw]

One thing stands out more than anything else in the OP. Magic was moving at a different speed than just about everyone else. Dude was fast with the ball in his hands. Not saying this to build up his legend. The opposite really. I have concerns that he wouldn't have such a clear advantage over the rest of the league in speed and conditioning.

He wouldn't have quite the same edge physically, because you have guys like Lebron, Paul George, Durant, who all have the athleticism/size to match up with him, but those players aren't on every team. Most nights, Magic is still going to enjoy the same physical advantages on offense. And more importantly, like Bird, Magic 'thought' the game at a pace faster than most, anticipating players being open before they were. Remember that fat 36 year old Magic returned briefly in 96, against a whole new generation, and was still a good player. 87 Magic is still among the best players in today's game, simply if you transported him from that era with that skillset.

[Showtime80']

Neither LeBron, George and even less Durant have a chance in hell of staying in front of any version of Magic let alone the 1987 version. Check out Magic's averages against a prime Dennis Rodman and Bad Boy Pistons in 1988 Finals in a series that was played at a 90.7 pace with the Lakers averaging just 101ppg:

21 ppg on 55%FG, 6rbs, 13assts and 2 steals!!!

Take a look at his 1991 Finals when he was past his prime with Worthy and Scott injured against the Doberman defense of Scottie Pippen, Jordan and Horace Grant:

19ppg on 43%FG, 8 rbs, 12assts and 1steal

There is NO TEAM OR PLAYERS in the present NBA as good defensively as those listed above and Magic was still Magic!!!

Magic as well as Larry WERE NEVER in the top tier of athletes in the NBA even in 1980! Their games were based on a cerebral approach mastering the fundamentals and exploiting the spaces, angles and positioning that the defense gave them resulting in quick hitting effective styles that would've been effective IN ANY ERA!!!

1986 Bird and 1987 Magic would be the two best players in today's soft NBA, specially with the way ALL OF THE RULES have been changed to help perimeter players.

[Dragonyeuw]

Neither LeBron, George and even less Durant have a chance in hell of staying in front of any version of Magic let alone the 1987 version. Check out Magic's averages against a prime Dennis Rodman and Bad Boy Pistons in 1988 Finals in a series that was played at a 90.7 pace with the Lakers averaging just 101ppg:

21 ppg on 55%FG, 6rbs, 13assts and 2 steals!!!

Take a look at his 1991 Finals when he was past his prime with Worthy and Scott injured against the Doberman defense of Scottie Pippen, Jordan and Horace Grant:

19ppg on 43%FG, 8 rbs, 12assts and 1steal

There is NO TEAM OR PLAYERS in the present NBA as good defensively as those listed above and Magic was still Magic!!!



I didn't say those players would stop them, I said players of that nature are the best equipped in today's NBA physically to match up with him. Of those players, Lebron absolutely has the defensive acumen to make Magic work, which is the best you can do against any great player.

[Da_Realist]

Neither LeBron, George and even less Durant have a chance in hell of staying in front of any version of Magic let alone the 1987 version. Check out Magic's averages against a prime Dennis Rodman and Bad Boy Pistons in 1988 Finals in a series that was played at a 90.7 pace with the Lakers averaging just 101ppg:

21 ppg on 55%FG, 6rbs, 13assts and 2 steals!!!

Take a look at his 1991 Finals when he was past his prime with Worthy and Scott injured against the Doberman defense of Scottie Pippen, Jordan and Horace Grant:

19ppg on 43%FG, 8 rbs, 12assts and 1steal

There is NO TEAM OR PLAYERS in the present NBA as good defensively as those listed above and Magic was still Magic!!!

Magic as well as Larry WERE NEVER in the top tier of athletes in the NBA even in 1980! Their games were based on a cerebral approach mastering the fundamentals and exploiting the spaces, angles and positioning that the defense gave them resulting in quick hitting effective styles that would've been effective IN ANY ERA!!!

1986 Bird and 1987 Magic would be the two best players in today's soft NBA, specially with the way ALL OF THE RULES have been changed to help perimeter players.

Exactly

[NBASTATMAN]

Magic is clearly better than LeBron or any player in this era. Barkley too.



BARKLEY offensively is better than Lebron.. All around Lebron's defense is what separates him.. At times he slacks off but in the FINALS his defense was stellar. Barkley couldnt defend for ish

[raprap]

LOl no he wouldn't.

He doesn't know how to move without the ball, lacks post game, and can't even drive through traffic with any consistency.

He's not consistently aggressive enough and his offensive arsenal is immature compared to Worthy's. Bron is late in his career and still hasn't shown the nuances that Worthy had since he was at UNC, how the f*ck will he be better in the 80s?

The bigs from the past would render him to the bench.
Okay you're blind with hate. :oldlol:

Did you see how many lay-ups Magic had against that defense and pace? LeBron would've been better with the pace and space they give players to drive.

[MaxPlayer]

Get off my lawn

[Smoke117]

LOl no he wouldn't.

He doesn't know how to move without the ball, lacks post game, and can't even drive through traffic with any consistency.

He's not consistently aggressive enough and his offensive arsenal is immature compared to Worthy's. Bron is late in his career and still hasn't shown the nuances that Worthy had since he was at UNC, how the f*ck will he be better in the 80s?

The bigs from the past would render him to the bench.

What a bunch of ****ing bullshit...as per usual for you.

[Mr Feeny]

Neither LeBron, George and even less Durant have a chance in hell of staying in front of any version of Magic let alone the 1987 version. Check out Magic's averages against a prime Dennis Rodman and Bad Boy Pistons in 1988 Finals in a series that was played at a 90.7 pace with the Lakers averaging just 101ppg:

21 ppg on 55%FG, 6rbs, 13assts and 2 steals!!!

Take a look at his 1991 Finals when he was past his prime with Worthy and Scott injured against the Doberman defense of Scottie Pippen, Jordan and Horace Grant:

19ppg on 43%FG, 8 rbs, 12assts and 1steal

There is NO TEAM OR PLAYERS in the present NBA as good defensively as those listed above and Magic was still Magic!!!

Magic as well as Larry WERE NEVER in the top tier of athletes in the NBA even in 1980! Their games were based on a cerebral approach mastering the fundamentals and exploiting the spaces, angles and positioning that the defense gave them resulting in quick hitting effective styles that would've been effective IN ANY ERA!!!

1986 Bird and 1987 Magic would be the two best players in today's soft NBA, specially with the way ALL OF THE RULES have been changed to help perimeter players.


Do you actually believe the drivel you're writing?

[Showtime80']

2016 top 10 MVP voting:

Steph Curry
Kawhi Leonard
LeBron James
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Durant
Draymond Green
Damian Lillard
James Harden
Kyle Lowry

1987 top 10 MVP voting:

Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Dominique Wilkins
Charles Barkley
Hakeem Olajuwon
Isiah Thomas
Fat Lever
Moses Malone

Honestly which top 10 or top 5 list is harder to crack, 1987 or the crap in 2016?!?! 1987 versions of Magic and Larry would be the best players in 2016!

[Mr Feeny]

2016 top 10 MVP voting:

Steph Curry
Kawhi Leonard
LeBron James
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Durant
Draymond Green
Damian Lillard
James Harden
Kyle Lowry

1987 top 10 MVP voting:

Magic Johnson
Michael Jordan
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Dominique Wilkins
Charles Barkley
Hakeem Olajuwon
Isiah Thomas
Fat Lever
Moses Malone

Honestly which top 10 or top 5 list is harder to crack, 1987 or the crap in 2016?!?! 1987 versions of Magic and Larry would be the best players in 2016!

Lebron, like Shaq before him, coasted through the regular season to focus on saving his health and energy for the time that really counts, the playoffs. Why would you expect a guy with 4 MVP's by the age of 28 to care about winning more?
He had more mvps before 30 than any of the guys you mentioned above. All he cares about is the big time. All he cares about is the playoffs. He's reached 6 finals in a row and doesn't plan on stopping anytime soon.

[Rocketswin2013]

I'd take Magic over Bron as well.

Magic is just a better player in general. Bron's defense is better, but Magic's tends to be overlooked.

At the end of the day I'd rather have Magic lead my team, he does so many things better than Bron. Magic in this era would be a joke.

Imagine playing Magic with single coverage with clear outs? He'd be destroying his man with today's rules on an isolation clear out, they would HAVE to double him. But then he'd pick you apart with dimes, better than Bron would ever dream of.

Chuck today will probably be banned.

There is no way he can play in today's league, rules would have to be changed again to stop him. Anyone even that's tough enough to contain him will get kicked out so how will he be stopped? There may be 3-5 players league wide that can do a good job on him, but they'd either be in foul trouble or kicked out for attempting to play to his demeanor.
Magics defense was terrible

Lebrons is actually underrated on this board

[fourkicks44]

Magics defense was terrible

Lebrons is actually underrated on this board

:coleman: Lebron's defense is perhaps the most overrated thing on this board.