Truth or fiction, when Lebron RETIRES, people will see him as CO-GOAT with MJ

[Derivative]

Lebron still has 3-5 years of high productivity years left. If he manages to win more MVPs or championship, that will cement his legacy as #2 of all time (though he currently is already the #2 GOAT).

If Lebron can somehow beat the Warriors team next year, it will probably elevate him to MJ levels, despite MJ"s perfect career.

[J Shuttlesworth]

If he beats the Warriors this year, I think he'll be seen as Co-GOAT

[BigKAT]

Well, Right now?

No. I don't think so.

But who knows what's left in his tank,
If he manages to stay elite for 2-3 extra seasons, maybe nab another ring as the guy..

It's definetly plausible.

[Sarcastic]

He'll never been seen as equal because of the blemishes on his record. Certain losses can be excused (2007, 2015), but others can't (2011).

It's like imagine a runner comes out and wins the 100m 3 times in the next 4 Olympics, and comes away with a Silver in the other. He'll have a very nice resume, but it won't be like Bolt, especially if he doesn't have a WR or OR time. What makes Bolt special is that he was a perfect 9 for 9 in all his races. You can never beat that.

[BigKAT]

He'll never been seen as equal because of the blemishes on his record. Certain losses can be excused (2007, 2015), but others can't (2011).

It's like imagine a runner comes out and wins the 100m 3 times in the next 4 Olympics, and comes away with a Silver in the other. He'll have a very nice resume, but it won't be like Bolt, especially if he doesn't have a WR or OR time. What makes Bolt special is that he was a perfect 9 for 9 in all his races. You can never beat that.

That bolt argument is pretty good.
But I think it'd had less of an effect if Bolt participated in 9 olympics.
If Lebron finishes his career with 9 finals appearence (Which is quite very plausible) I think that 11' bleep is going to be less dramatic.

[Sarcastic]

That bolt argument is pretty good.
But I think it'd had less of an effect if Bolt participated in 9 olympics.
If Lebron finishes his career with 9 finals appearence (Which is quite very plausible) I think that 11' bleep is going to be less dramatic.

Magic Johnson went to 9 Finals in 12 years, won 5, and never gets propped for getting to so many. They always say "Western Conference was weak in the 1980s". Well the East in the 2000s and 2010s was weaker than than the 80s West. So why does Lebron get credit for beating a bad Conference but Magic doesn't? Doesn't make sense, unless you have an agenda.

[fourkicks44]

That bolt argument is pretty good.
But I think it'd had less of an effect if Bolt participated in 9 olympics.
If Lebron finishes his career with 9 finals appearence (Which is quite very plausible) I think that 11' bleep is going to be less dramatic.

Waaaay to early to call, let him finish his career first.

But at the moment there is a large gap between him and MJ.

Right now Lebron is in the forefront of our minds as he is the best player in the world atm. However time will not work as favourably for him in regards to people's opinions about his greatness. There was a time Mikan was the best in the world, still has a huge impact on basketball, but people sort of forget about his legacy.

[Klay 3D]

1. Needs 1 more MVP
2. Has to beat a healthy Warriors team this year with FMVP
3. If can't win Warriors this year, has to win at least 3 more FMVP

[Spurs m8]

Most likely very false.

[GrapeApe]

Highly, highly unlikely. His realistic ceiling is suprpassing Kareem for #2, but that will be a tall order in and of itself. The most likely scenario is that Lebron finishes as the consensus #3, and that's pretty damn good. That would have him on basketball's Mount Rushmore. Rarefied air for sure.

[BigKAT]

Highly, highly unlikely. His realistic ceiling is suprpassing Kareem for #2, but that will be a tall order in and of itself. The most likely scenario is that Lebron finishes as the consensus #3, and that's pretty damn good. That would have him on basketball's Mount Rushmore. Rarefied air for sure.

If he finishes #2 that's one hell of a career. Same with #3.
But kinda makes you wonder when's the next time anyone will even be in the timezone of challanging Jordan.

(Or even be talked about as an option.)

[feyki]

First • MJ isn't GOAT .

Second • Lebron will be more like top 5 .

[BigKAT]

[QUOTE=feyki]First

[Nash]

2nd GOAT

[feyki]

Who is Goat then?

Firat option Kareem , and then Russell .

Russell and Jordan had great 13 years . Otherside , Kareem had worse first 13 years than them . But not that much different . And with goat longevity , i think he's the best . Russell has slightly edge for first 3 years and after 30 years .

[NuggetsFan]

He'll never been seen as equal because of the blemishes on his record. Certain losses can be excused (2007, 2015), but others can't (2011).


Basically this. Jordan was perfect when he needed to be, LeBron wasn't. That's going to be difficult to overcome. Coming back down 3-1 against a 73 win team opened the door slightly given how freakishly durable he is but 2011 is an ugly black mark.

Only thing I'll say if LeBron ever did reach that level it'd be because he's an entirely different kinda player than Jordan. Like not Jordan or Magic but somewhere in the middle. Things like stepping back and letting Irving do his thing. Being a floor general, and team guy rather than the killer instinct guy ala MJ. Versatility is LeBron's way of getting to MJ's level. It's really the only thing he's actually straight up better at. He has zero chance at ever even sniffing MJ as a scorer. Longevity might open the door up for LeBron. He'd need to be perfect tho. Like another MVP or two, 2-3 more rings with FMVP's and a couple more GOAT level performances. Durant joining the Warriors was huge for Bron. Back to back rings against GOAT level teams with GOAT level performances with atleast 3-4 years left on the table would make things a little more interesting.

I don't think LeBron will deserve to be the GOAT/co-GOAT but he'll be similar to Kareem/Wilt/Russell/Magic etc. in the sense that a small % will have him as GOAT while the majority has him around 2-5. However I am genuinely curious to see what the media does. People forget Jordan had the GOAT marketing for an athlete and the media really helped his case. If LeBron has a great finish deserving or not you could see the media/sports world/his marketing campaign thrust him into co-GOAT level.

[NuggetsFan]

Magic Johnson went to 9 Finals in 12 years, won 5, and never gets propped for getting to so many. They always say "Western Conference was weak in the 1980s". Well the East in the 2000s and 2010s was weaker than than the 80s West. So why does Lebron get credit for beating a bad Conference but Magic doesn't? Doesn't make sense, unless you have an agenda.

Magic doesn't have LeBron's scoring numbers. People are obsessed with scoring. Scoring is probably the most valuable part of the game so right or wrong I think after Jordan Magic was always going to struggle with that. Can the GOAT be a guy that never averaged 25 a game in the regular season?

On top of that Magic was nowhere near the defensive player, equal FMVP's, and less MVP's. While unfair Kareem steals some of his thunder as well I think.

I think Magic winning 5 and going to all those finals while scoring a little more/having LeBron's resume makes him the GOAT. Alot of people viewed him as such until Jordan came along and his explosive scoring overshadowed Magic's team play/playmaking. Magic averaged 12 dimes his first 6 post seasons that included 3 championships, but he only averaged 17.8 points. He scored more in his last two but I really do believe without the flashy scoring it hurt him. There is still that small % that believe Magic to be the GOAT, while alot don't even think he was better than Bird. Things are a little more subjective rather than "fact" based than ISH lets on.

[BigKAT]

Magic doesn't have LeBron's scoring numbers. People are obsessed with scoring. Scoring is probably the most valuable part of the game so right or wrong I think after Jordan Magic was always going to struggle with that. Can the GOAT be a guy that never averaged 25 a game in the regular season?

On top of that Magic was nowhere near the defensive player, equal FMVP's, and less MVP's. While unfair Kareem steals some of his thunder as well I think.

I think Magic winning 5 and going to all those finals while scoring a little more/having LeBron's resume makes him the GOAT. Alot of people viewed him as such until Jordan came along and his explosive scoring overshadowed Magic's team play/playmaking. Magic averaged 12 dimes his first 6 post seasons that included 3 championships, but he only averaged 17.8 points. He scored more in his last two but I really do believe without the flashy scoring it hurt him. There is still that small % that believe Magic to be the GOAT, while alot don't even think he was better than Bird. Things are a little more subjective rather than "fact" based than ISH lets on.

Unfortunatly I wasn't alive to see Magic's greatness while it was taking place.
And I was a small kid in Jordan's days and wasn't interested in the NBA in the Kobe/Shaq time.

So many great players stepped on the court,
I think that the thing that puts MJ in the GOAT area is both his unblemished Finals record and the fact he never lost once he started winning. (Excluding that 95' season which most people don't count.)

[bdreason]

I don't see any argument for LeBron being ranked ahead of Kareem.

[Hey Yo]

Magic Johnson went to 9 Finals in 12 years, won 5, and never gets propped for getting to so many. They always say "Western Conference was weak in the 1980s". Well the East in the 2000s and 2010s was weaker than than the 80s West. So why does Lebron get credit for beating a bad Conference but Magic doesn't? Doesn't make sense, unless you have an agenda.
Most people have Magic ranked in their top 5. How does he not get credit?

The West was mostly shit with only 12 teams until expansion in 1988. Pretty hard not to make the playoffs.

The number 1 seeds for each conference got a first round bye until that was changed before the 1984 season. Best of 3 for other teams in the 1st round of the playoffs, then the best of 5.

Lakers got to the Finals in 1987 by beating 3 teams who were a combined 118-128 in the reg. season. I guarantee you won't find an example like that in any of the postseasons James played against.

Lesser games, lesser competition and better teammates.

Advantage Magic.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Won't make any definitive statements BUT I will say I've learned the hard way with doubting LeBron. The man continues to prove me wrong, time and again.

Like...just imagine another finals performance akin to this past one? Against the best team BY FAR with b2b individual and HISTORICAL performances? Not a fan of his by any means, but LeBron catching Kareem and/or MJ (depending on you have 'greater') is the type of storyline you only read in fables and shit.

Its anybodies guess as to what dude accomplishes next.

[Bankaii]

Right now he's top tied for top 5 with Shaq for me.
If he repeats against the new Warriors while playing like he did in the 2016 Finals he'll be top 2. All he'd need after that are a couple more rings.