Good people and bothersome trolls of ISH...id like a moment of your time..

[Kblaze8855]

to ask you a simple question. A simple question that I will complicate tremendously and put too much effort into framing because that is my nature.

Now....unnecessary back story.


I sit on a number of ridiculous self appointed panels. There is a humbling panel I mentioned once in this topic:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=399103


Others include a panel on entendres. You know...double...occasionally triple. Panel was convened originally to determine if a album name by long forgotten rapper Snow"(He made a song called Informer...fake Jamaican accent) was a triple. Album was called "12 Inches of snow".

Clearly its a double at least. It was a 12 inch LP....there can be 12 inches of snow...as in the weather...but I always suggested he was referencing his ***** as well...which makes it a triple...and gives it the bit of dirtiness that helps mark it as an entendre. We went back and forth about how using his name as a proper noun makes it a whole other word and therefore...cheating. We even discussed a possible quadruple which I never accepted...but if any fans of language want to discuss it...ill be happy to go into it. Anyway...

Thats the type of nonsense I busy myself with both online and off. Not all my panels have the same members....but most are me, my friend/sorta cousin who posts here but never chose to mention that we have known eachother for 30 years...and then one or two others depending on the situation.

Lacking a 3rd for the moment im gonna use all of ISH as the third member of our panel on...


Giving him/them the business.


Even more back story....

Years ago a ref made a call in a football game...and it happened a few more times since. I believe I saw it last like 5-6 years ago. Personal foul....."Giving him the business". This is the most famous example:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/DismalGlossyDolphin-size_restricted.gif

But its been used as what im sure is an inside joke among refs for years. College...high school games. Last I saw it was called on someone on the Lions.

Anyway for years now we have been using the term as a reference to dominating an opponent to a disrespectful extent...

You can be personally given the business....or your team as a whole. For example...


Reggie 25 in the 4th vs the Knicks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2OEm4SAj9YI

He didnt score enough of it on Starks personally to be an individual business giving.....but the team? Even the city?

He gave the entire city of New York the business.

Generally the loose rule is being scored on personally 10 times or more.....counting being beaten so you send dude to the line. You dont get out of having the business given to you because you got frustrated and reached in as he blew by you.

Those are decently high standards. Most of the time you imagine someone getting lit up....it isnt 10 times individually. Its 12-15 field goals...some on a secondary defender...some on the break. Not just 10+ straight up buckets on one guy. For perspective...

Lebron only made 12 or more shots in a game 20 times last season. How many times do you think 10 of them were in a straight up "Me vs you" situation? A few maybe...but it doesnt happen often. Lot of uncontested layups, switches, and open threes you know?

When someone really gives you the business...you take it personal. You have to. Several people have been driven to fight by some of the more frustrating scorers.

Bill Sharman once threw a punch at Jerry West after he hit 7 straight jumpers on him. Vernon Maxwell once wanted to fight Jordan for giving him the business or as he put it(so says Kenny Smith) "He was scoring on me too easily." Here it is in fact...MJ gives Vernon the business for his 29th point and Vernon gets upset...around 8 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu92R-UR12o

Im uh....kinda ok with it. I can see why they would be upset.

Kobe got a few people that way too....Artest for one. Rueben Patterson I believe. Battier usually kept his cool and took it like a man...but some got upset....

And Kobe really is my subject here. Not for giving the business....but arguably...being given it.

More wordy back story....


















2001 all star game. Kobe and Marbury go at it. If youre 25+ you remember. The dueling jumpers. Kobe shot over Mutombo. Marbury back to back threes to win it. A good time was had by all....anyway...days later Marbury gives Kobe 50. So says Kobe at least. In his Jimmy Kimmel interview when asked who was his toughest opponent...he mentions this game. He didnt really give Kobe the whole 50 of course. As I mentioned it never works that way. Or rarely. It rarely works that way. But he did give him some nice moves and pile up some points on him. Heres one:



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BowedGenuineKitfox-size_restricted.gif


I believe he scored on him 9 times directly and drew some fouls.

He also hit one of the wildest sets of back to back threes you will ever see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avJkhyJJaQw


Both of them while looking directly into the windows to Kobes soul.

All told...the 9 direct field goals and handful of fouls...plus the epic nature of the clutch threes...would usually take this into "Given the business" status. But there is a complication...you see....the Lakers won. And not only did they win....this is the game winner:











https://thumbs.gfycat.com/OilyMediumGyrfalcon-size_restricted.gif


I felt it was right to include the little arms crossed celebration.

So...Kobe wins the game....personally...in OT.

He wins it and does so in fairly spectacular fashion...with and and-1 complete with a signature pose ill only describe as "Scoreboard".

Does winning the game...in your eyes...mean you cant have been given the business? Does "Scoreboard" trump all?

Id say the best example in opposition to that....Jordans 63 in the Garden. Most would accept that he gave the Celtics the business. But....Niques 47 in the famous duel game? It was on I believe 19/23 shooting...much of it on Bird. But Bird scored about 20 down the stretch including 3 crazy clutch baskets late to end it. So nobody left thinking Nique gave him the business.

If you go off and lose is a claim you gave the other team/your primary defender the business tantamount to this classic but forgotten gif of Nate dancing before the score pops up to reveal the Knicks lost by 14?




https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PhysicalShoddyAlligatorsnappingturtle-size_restricted.gif





Its nice but.....scoreboard.

My friend and I have reached an impasse on the subject and will require your vote to settle the matter. Am I actually counting? Of course not. Just...looking for opinions.

So tell me....

Was Kobe Bryant...given the business by Marbury...even though the Lakers won and he hit the big shot?

Is "Dude...scoreboard..." enough to keep someone from having had the business given to them?

[Kblaze8855]

Two examples of refs calling a "Giving him the business"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D8aAC4jrPM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eslz06J9hFw


I swear I remember seeing Ed Hochuli do it once too but I cant find it. It may not have been a real game. Pro bowl or preseason perhaps....

[fourkicks44]

Scoreboard trumps all, but don't mean you will necessarily sleep well that night.

[solar.hands]

^agreed

if im the guy who won the game but got the "business". i feel like the win is just a consolation prize, and you got your ass handed to you.
for some theyll just brush it off, but others will probably get 'shook' (definitely me lol. i take pride on my perimeter defense so the guy will definitely get in my head). and it will be carried on your next game or the next time you face the same opponent.

as they say, you won the game but lost the 'battle'.

[Trollsmasher]

oh look, Kblaze's monthly pretentious drivel post

[PistonsFan#21]

As a player, winning is important but you would be lying to yourself if you said it would void the fact that you got lit up. It pretty much means that you were a net negative for the team but your teammates still found a way to come up with the win. Unless obviously you are the one hitting the game winner (even then getting the business the whole game wouldn't be forgotten but it would make it way easier to accept)

[AintNoSunshine]

Why are your posts always so intolerably long? No offense tho because I wanted and tried to read them.

[KiiiiNG]

Get a life

[You Cant Ban Me]

double aunt andre

[Kblaze8855]

if im the guy who won the game but got the "business". i feel like the win is just a consolation prize, and you got your ass handed to you.
for some theyll just brush it off, but others will probably get 'shook' (definitely me lol. i take pride on my perimeter defense so the guy will definitely get in my head).

Im the same. I barely remember any of my nice moves over my life. But I remember getting owned. I remember when people first started doing the Iverson crossover. My cousin destroyed me once and I can still remember my knees hitting the ground.



Why are your posts always so intolerably long? No offense tho because I wanted and tried to read them.


After doing this for so long there are very few topics that still interest me to discuss. Im not doing player comparisons so much...or...top ____ talks or predictions. Concepts still interest me. Why people think things....how they arrived at an opinion. And a concept at times takes a while to flesh out. At least in such a way im 100% sure ive made it clear what im asking and why.

Similar to the talking Lord of the Rings tree...it takes a long time for me to say anything...so I say nothing unless I feel it is worth taking a long time to say.

Not my old approach. Which is why I had 40ish thousand posts on the old ISH board in about 4 years and "only" 15 in the 10 years since. Now...I feel like 90% of what I could say is just repeating something ive said 30 times over the years. So I just pop up now and then with something I actually care about....then go quiet again for some time.

Im always here. Always. I just dont have much to say.

[WayOfWad3]

I would say Kobe was given the business. When one dude owns your soul for an extended amount of time and you own his for so little (albeit the final bit of time in the game), I'd say the advantage would probably go to the other player. I could be wrong though, because I see instances such as Bird vs. Wilkins in the 80's and Wade vs. Walker in 2016 where one player obviously played inferior to their opponent for most of the game, yet stepped up in the final bit to get the W.
Good question, in the end the W is the most important, but that doesn't mean you win your matchup uncontestedly.

[warriorfan]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PhysicalShoddyAlligatorsnappingturtle-size_restricted.gif
:roll:

[Gotterdammerung]

KBlaze,
I appreciate your threads more than most, not only because of the concepts, but because you've put in the time and effort, and you've seen more basketball than 97% of the forum combined.

Also likely because i'm getting older, and the superficial troll-bait topics no longer interest me. :oldlol:

As for the subject at hand, i'd have to think about it some more. Someone else said it's like losing the battle but winning the war. But it's all perspectival - are you some silly stan of a player? or a fan of a team? Or of the game itself? Such perspectival points predetermine the answer.

[Prometheus]

You can talk about how it makes each player feel, but in the end, bragging rights go to the winner.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Why are your posts always so intolerably long? No offense tho because I wanted and tried to read them.
You're not alone. I've been complaining about this since 2006. It's not just intolerable, it's completely unnecessary. He could have got to the essence of this post so much quicker, and intelligence is keeping it simple.

[Kblaze8855]

No...it is not. Intelligence is innate. Its there or it isnt regardless. There is the old saying that if you cant explain something simply you dont understand it well enough....but if you think I couldnt boil this topic down to a line or two...I dont know what to tell you. Clearly im not a

"Do u think Duncan iz great or is it Popavich. I think its pop...


Who agreez?"

type poster. We have those. Im the other side. Read it or dont. If I were gonna stop dont you think I would have by now?

People like this:



Also likely because i'm getting older, and the superficial troll-bait topics no longer interest me.


Are who im talking to.