IS Kawahi really Top 5?

[BigKAT]

21 PPG, 2.6 APG, 6.8 Rebounds. 50% FG, 44% 3PFG.


I mean, that's pretty darn great.

But if the Spurs win anything between 50-60 wins, does he really get that 2nd place in MVP voting?

I mean, he's nowhere near Lebron.
Nor is he on Curry's level.
Or Durant.

Is he really Top 5?

Is he better then:
Melo
CP3
Paul George
Jimmy Butler
Westbrook
Kyrie
Derozen
James Harden...

I mean.
He's a beast.
But is he TOP FIVE?

I'm just saying.. 21/7 is nothing to lose your panties over. Yes, his team won 67 Games. But they had Aldrige, the best bench in the league and mother**** Popovich.

I'd say he's top 10.

But not top 5.

[K Xerxes]

Although he's the best perimeter defender in the league, his offense is unreliable in a playoff setting. I'd say he's in that second tier along with Westbrook, Chris Paul, Paul George etc, but he's certainly better than Melo, Butler, Kyrie, Derozen and Harden.

[Nilocon165]

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/e48yos.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Kawhi_Leonard-1.gif

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y1O3pq0KyXQ/mqdefault.jpg

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/2gc9YZyCjnD33I-ihRo5bru8Xa4=/0x8:1005x573/1600x900/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/47540877/BLOCK.0.0.jpeg

[BigKAT]

http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/e48yos.gif

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Kawhi_Leonard-1.gif

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Y1O3pq0KyXQ/mqdefault.jpg

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/2gc9YZyCjnD33I-ihRo5bru8Xa4=/0x8:1005x573/1600x900/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/47540877/BLOCK.0.0.jpeg


Very impressive.
But we could likely get equally impressive Gifs for any of the pre-mentioned names.

Again,
I'm not discrediting Kawahi. BEAST. Amazing player. But.. just not top 5 in my honest opinion.

[feyki]

Lebron,Curry and Durant are better than him . But after these guys , who else ? Westbrook , maybe . And i don't give a name other than Westbrook .

[lilteapot]

He's better than Durant.

Lebron
Curry
Kawhi
Durant
Westbrook

[ShawkFactory]

He's better than Durant.

Lebron
Curry
Kawhi
Durant
Westbrook
No

[Proctor]

He's better than Durant.

Lebron
Curry
Kawhi
Durant
Westbrook
This...and Kawhi is getting better each and every year.

I really think he will bump his average up to 23.5-24ppg and have an MVP level season.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yes.

LeBron
Davis
Durant
Curry

Leonard / Harden / Westbrook / CP3 all battling for 5th

[sunnyboy91]

He is a quality 21/7.....very efficient.....DPOY level defense.
Don't get too caught up in the numbers, he's better than every guy you listed.

And you shouldnt use Pop try to discredit what Kawhi is doing.
He works harder than anyone else on improving his game. Pop cant magically turn him from a mediocre shooter to a 40%+ from 3 guy.
He doesnt have a magic system that no other coach knows about lol.
Since 2014 he hasnt even been a great in game coach.
In 2015 he kept playing Tony instead of a Patty, who was on fire the whole series vs Clips.
2016 he kept playing West/Diaw vs Adams/Kanter in the 3rd every game which killed us.

How about you give Kawhi some credit for being a DPOY and runner up in the MVP in the same year.
And you ask if he's better than DeRozan smh

[LongLiveTheKing]

No. Lebron, KD, Westbrook, Curry, and PG are better.

[Milbuck]

No, he's a terrific player and clear-cut top 10 but his offense is extremely overrated and in the playoffs that matters a lot. He can put up his monstrous impact stats in the regular season but in a brutal playoff series where I need my superstar to carry my offense for big stretches, he's not it. Dude shat himself against the Clippers two years ago and straight up disappeared for huge stretches against OKC this year.

[IGOTGAME]

Yes.

LeBron
Davis
Durant
Curry

Leonard / Harden / Westbrook / CP3 all battling for 5th
Davis has done nothing to be ranked that high as of now

[juju151111]

No, he's a terrific player and clear-cut top 10 but his offense is extremely overrated and in the playoffs that matters a lot. He can put up his monstrous impact stats in the regular season but in a brutal playoff series where I need my superstar to carry my offense for big stretches, he's not it. Dude shat himself against the Clippers two years ago and straight up disappeared for huge stretches against OKC this year.
He played good in his first playoffs has number 1 in last year playoffs. He did good against Okc.

[Spurs m8]

2nd in mvp last year.

Improves literally every season.

Plays both ends of floor.

Don't be a n00b, op

[Dray n Klay]

2nd in mvp last year.

Improves literally every season.

Plays both ends of floor.

Don't be a n00b, op

LOL he's garbage and exposed this year as a playoff choker


Just accept it m8

[BigKAT]

2nd in mvp last year.

Improves literally every season.

Plays both ends of floor.

Don't be a n00b, op

James harden finished 2nd in MVP last season.
Blake Griffin finished 3rd the season before that.

No one mentioned them in the top 5.
Or top 10, almost at all.

Plays both ends of the floor, definetly.
But is he one of the BEST five players in the league? I dunno.
He didn't show up in either playoffs since his 'Arrival' as the next great Spur with that 14' FMVP, which he deserved.

[TomCat]

Allen Iverson didn't have bran in his top 5 current players

please take him out.

[Nilocon165]

Allen Iverson didn't have bran in his top 5 current players

please take him out.
Yes he did you fcking dumbass

[Spurs m8]

LOL he's garbage and exposed this year as a playoff choker


Just accept it m8

Go jump on another bandwagon, you slimy f@ggot

More than any Golden State starter can achieve in the Finals tbh

http://static.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kawhi-leonard-1402926516.jpg

[Bigsmoke]

LBJ
KD
curry
Westbrook
kawhi


He is definitely better than PG and Jimmy. The spurs lost because their bigs were old and couldn't hang with the thunders bigs and KD outplayed him. KD is a beast so that doesn't me he's already out of the top 5.

[Bigsmoke]

James harden finished 2nd in MVP last season.
Blake Griffin finished 3rd the season before that.

No one mentioned them in the top 5.
Or top 10, almost at all.

Plays both ends of the floor, definetly.
But is he one of the BEST five players in the league? I dunno.
He didn't show up in either playoffs since his 'Arrival' as the next great Spur with that 14' FMVP, which he deserved.



Being 2nd in the MVP race while winning the DPOY trophy and having a ring and a FMVP trophy kinda put him in a different category from Harden and Blake. No?

[AintNoSunshine]

Overrated like the rest of Spurs guys like Ginobili

Don't have the playmaking skills to survive as the first option on another team.

[bdreason]

My top 5 players, in no particular order, would be;

LeBron
Durant
Curry
CP3
Leonard

[PP34Deuce]

I think after Bron Durant curry Westbrook everyone else is interchangeable from 5 to 10.

[ILLsmak]

Very impressive.
But we could likely get equally impressive Gifs for any of the pre-mentioned names.

Again,
I'm not discrediting Kawahi. BEAST. Amazing player. But.. just not top 5 in my honest opinion.

Not this one:




http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/Kawhi_Leonard-1.gif



I remember seeing that live and was like ooooo shit. Rarely, if ever does someone sauce a top 5 player on that level THEN go on to dunk on a great shot blocker.

-Smak

[hiphopfan777]

He outplayed queen james both finals amd would have won if not for ray allens shot saving queens legacy


Never teamed up with two superstars doesnt rely on elbowing defenders and spot up shooters assists, moves without ball unlike queen

[tmacattack33]

So much of his points come off of assists from other teammates. He can't create his own offense on a level like CP3, Harden, or Westbrook. His low assists per game also points to this.

He's a great defender obviously though.

Overall, he's around top 6-7.

[Spurs m8]

So much of his points come off of assists from other teammates. He can't create his own offense on a level like CP3, Harden, or Westbrook. His low assists per game also points to this.

He's a great defender obviously though.

Overall, he's around top 6-7.

Umm... He does create his own shot...like...thats a big part of his game.

Try watching some spurs games before commenting, dumbass

[sunnyboy91]

So much of his points come off of assists from other teammates. He can't create his own offense on a level like CP3, Harden, or Westbrook. His low assists per game also points to this.

He's a great defender obviously though.

Overall, he's around top 6-7.
Fail
He has a great midrange face up and post game where he creates his own shot, and very efficient at it

[BigKAT]

Well.

This season will prove it once and for all.

If I'm right?

Kawahi will be in the 21 PPG range once more, +-1 give or take, won't be in the MVP discussion this year if the spurs don't win 60 +.

If I'm wrong,

Kawahi will likely bump his scoring, passing and is once more a second runner or perhaps even hoists the MVP. But I think this is his make or break year, after two years of playoff faillures, and one full year as the Alpha, it is time for him to show if he is cut out for it or not.

[Spurs m8]

lol its not make or break....the dudes gotten better literally every season in a team orientated team.

Plus he has the awards to back himself up.

Oh yeah, and hes only just 25.

I get what ya saying, but you're going a bit far tbh

[BigKAT]

lol its not make or break....the dudes gotten better literally every season in a team orientated team.

Plus he has the awards to back himself up.

Oh yeah, and hes only just 25.

I get what ya saying, but you're going a bit far tbh

I just don't think people make 'Leaps' after 26.
I think that by that age we -know- what we're getting.

But yeah, I love Kawahi. I think he's top tier. Just not top 5. But I'm more then willing to eat my words if he get San antonio out of that playoff slump/wins MVP

[keep-itreal]

He's scottie pippen.

Spurs need a Jordan/Kobe type of player and they have a dynasty

[rmt]

Don't know what you guys are looking for in a top 5 player but Leonard has played very well in 2 most pressure packed series - guarding Lebron both times and ending up with a FMVP. 2 DPOY awards and a very good regular season this past year. The most you could say is that he hasn't carried the Spurs for multiple seasons, but that's because it's the Spurs (they spread the minutes/scoring around) and Pop bringing him along so slowly - only 33.1 mins/game and 31.8 min the past 2 years - not enough minutes for a 23-24 year old.

For all you naysayers - please post the 5 players better than Leonard.

[BigKAT]

Don't know what you guys are looking for in a top 5 player but Leonard has played very well in 2 most pressure packed series - guarding Lebron both times and ending up with a FMVP. 2 DPOY awards and a very good regular season this past year. The most you could say is that he hasn't carried the Spurs for multiple seasons, but that's because it's the Spurs and Pop bringing him along so slowly - only 33.1 mins/game and 31.8 min the past 2 years - not enough minutes for a 23-24 year old.

For all you naysayers - please post the 5 players better than Leonard.

You know, we actually had alot of discussions about Superstars lately in this forum. In most of them, when pressed to bring out the Superstars in the league, Kawahi was one of the names that came to mind.

I still think it's only going to be next season where he Cement himself as a true superstar in this league (Top 5). Achivement wise? Yeah, definetly. FMVP, DPOY and what not.

But I still think that pound for pound you can find 5 better players RIGHT NOW.

I'd still take :
Curry, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook and CP3 before picking him.

[bdreason]

I'm taking Leonard over Westbrook without hesitation. He's an elite wing defender. Better shooter. Better post player. And he's two years younger. I like Westbrook, but his raw statistics lead to him being vastly overrated.

[rmt]

You know, we actually had alot of discussions about Superstars lately in this forum. In most of them, when pressed to bring out the Superstars in the league, Kawahi was one of the names that came to mind.

I still think it's only going to be next season where he Cement himself as a true superstar in this league (Top 5). Achivement wise? Yeah, definetly. FMVP, DPOY and what not.

But I still think that pound for pound you can find 5 better players RIGHT NOW.

I'd still take :
Curry, Lebron, Durant, Westbrook and CP3 before picking him.

Superstar is different from top 5 player. That's just recognition - not impact. And of course, Leonard's far from a superstar - he plays in SA and he's super quiet. I'd take Leonard over Westbrooke for all the reasons breason stated.

[Smoke117]

No. Lebron, Durant, Curry, CP3, Westbrook.

[Nick Young]

In my book, he is top 3. He is one of the best midrange and long distance shooters in the league, and he is the best defender in the league. His defense is game changing. He is the Tim Duncan of small forwards and his greatness often goes underappreciated.


Lebron
Curry
Kawhi

in no order.

[Nick Young]

He's scottie pippen.

Spurs need a Jordan/Kobe type of player and they have a dynasty
He's Scottie Pippen with elite shooting.

In other words, he's better than Pippen. When is the last time Scottie Pippen won a finals MVP?

[Nick Young]

So much of his points come off of assists from other teammates. He can't create his own offense on a level like CP3, Harden, or Westbrook. His low assists per game also points to this.

He's a great defender obviously though.

Overall, he's around top 6-7.
:hammerhead:

[Smoke117]

He's Scottie Pippen with elite shooting.

In other words, he's better than Pippen. When is the last time Scottie Pippen won a finals MVP?

Why do you idiots compare a guy with mediocre playmaking skills to a guy who is essentially a 6-7 pg? Leonard's ball handling is also atrocious compared to Pippens. Better than Pippen? **** out of here with that nonsense. Not only that, but their games as far as SCORING ARE NOTHING ALIKE:

Show me Kawhi doing something close to that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5sHdmQahNk&t=1m18s)

[Nick Young]

Why do you idiots compare a guy with mediocre playmaking skills to a guy who is essentially a 6-7 pg? Leonard's ball handling is also atrocious compared to Pippens. Better than Pippen? **** out of here with that nonsense. Not only that, but there games as far as SCORING ARE NOTHING ALIKE:

Show me Kawhi doing something close to that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5sHdmQahNk&t=1m18s)
Kawhi's elite shooting (he is one of the best distance and midrange shooters in the entire league) and clutchness make him a much better player than Pippen.


Do you forget how Pippen always used to choke and meltdown in clutchtime and Jordan had to always bail out the team?

If you take Scottie Pippen, take away his playmaking and handles, but give him clutchness and elite shooting and scoring, that's Kawhi.

[Smoke117]

Kawhi's elite shooting (he is one of the best distance and midrange shooters in the entire league) and clutchness make him a much better player than Pippen.


Do you forget how Pippen always used to choke and meltdown in clutchtime and Jordan had to always bail out the team?

If you take Scottie Pippen, take away his playmaking and handles, but give him clutchness and elite shooting and scoring, that's Kawhi.

Now he's a MUCH BETTER player than Pippen? :oldlol: You know nothing about basketball and you never have...I'm done with this discussion...I'm certainly not going to get into a debate with ****ing nick young.

[thefatmiral]

Yeah. Even if you include Westbrook . KY rounds out top five

[Lord P]

I honestly doubt he could carry a team the way lillard, pg, or harden does.

[Gougou]

I'd say he is like around 6-8

Top 5 would be:

Lebron
Curry
Durant
Westbrook
CP3

Then

AD ( If he becomes healthy, definitely a better player)
PG (he almost single handily crushed Raptors this year playoffs, his defensive ability was also impressive)
Leonard

[TimmyDuncan]

I honestly doubt he could carry a team the way lillard, pg, or harden does.

He definitely can't.
He is not a good enough scorer and he is not at all a playmaker like other superstar can be (even from the PF or C position).

Let's just say that if you have a bad team a Westbrook or even a Harden is way more valuable
But if you have already a great team with a good offense, Kawai is top 3 players to get (with Lebron and Curry). He is the player that will put you in the position to win the championship.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

24/7/3/2/1 on 50/44/88 en route to an MVP coming soon.

Bookmarked.

[tamaraw08]

21 PPG, 2.6 APG, 6.8 Rebounds. 50% FG, 44% 3PFG.


I mean, that's pretty darn great.

But if the Spurs win anything between 50-60 wins, does he really get that 2nd place in MVP voting?

I mean, he's nowhere near Lebron.
Nor is he on Curry's level.
Or Durant.

Is he really Top 5?

Is he better then:
Melo
CP3
Paul George
Jimmy Butler
Westbrook
Kyrie
Derozen
James Harden...

I mean.
He's a beast.
But is he TOP FIVE?

I'm just saying.. 21/7 is nothing to lose your panties over. Yes, his team won 67 Games. But they had Aldrige, the best bench in the league and mother**** Popovich.

I'd say he's top 10.

But not top 5.
"STATS STATS STATS":rolleyes: Isn't that what you told me when I provided facts?
What about the other intangibles like Defense, leadership, locker room attitude, ability to learn systems etc?:confusedshrug:
I take Kawhi over most of the players you mentioned esp Anthony and Butler.
IMO, Carmelo is overrated, as in doing one thing great but that's it. Not a great defender, rebounder, passer etc. Butler is a bit too slow for my taste.
Yes Leonard benefits from great coaching and teammates but this guy is legit behind Lebron and Paul George IMO.

[Mawly-G]

Paul George is better than Kawhi Leonard, and Chris Paul would round out the top 5 along with Russell Westbrook.

LeBron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, and CP3 are Tier 1 Superstars.

Harden, PG13, Kawhi, Kyrie, Anthony Davis, DMC, Lillard, Melo, and Griffin, and are Tier 2 Superstars. (Harden is debatable tier 1, but his defense kind of kills that argument).

[Milbuck]

Kawhi is the only supposed top 5 player who can completely shit himself in the playoffs like in 2015, choke and flat out disappear in 4th quarters to lose a series with HCA in 2016..and still come away with a spotless reputation. No matter what he does or doesn't do, he always has the pseudo-intellectual stat whoring fanbase dickriding him for his regular season RPM and +/- numbers.

[BarberSchool]

He is possibly the best defensive player of all time.
And incredibly efficient and deadly from all ranges.
He is top 5 in today's league.

[TommyGriffin]

Of course he is top 5. He has been top 5 for 2 seasons.

[GimmeThat]

would a tristan thompson offensive production player with supposedly better defensive skill player be top 5?

this probably had been said by pop before, and if anyone has watched the games enough, it comes down to how many times a player touches the ball within one play, your hockey assist argument whatnot.

if you value Reggie Miller because of what he provides for the team, I find it difficult for you to not make an argument for Kawahi in competition for the ALL-NBA team ranking

[Kool Boy]

no, top 10 though

[Nick Young]

would a tristan thompson offensive production player with supposedly better defensive skill player be top 5?

this probably had been said by pop before, and if anyone has watched the games enough, it comes down to how many times a player touches the ball within one play, your hockey assist argument whatnot.

if you value Reggie Miller because of what he provides for the team, I find it difficult for you to not make an argument for Kawahi in competition for the ALL-NBA team ranking
The facts are that at this point, Kawhi is a better shooter than Reggie ever was. More range, higher volume, more efficiency.

[BigKAT]

The facts are that at this point, Kawhi is a better shooter than Reggie ever was. More range, higher volume, more efficiency.


Kawahi had one season of this man.

Lebron had a 40% season.
Does that mean he is better then career 39% shooters?

I'm really hyped about Kawahi's improvements but hold your horses.

[Nick Young]

Kawahi had one season of this man.

Lebron had a 40% season.
Does that mean he is better then career 39% shooters?

I'm really hyped about Kawahi's improvements but hold your horses.
He is not going to forget how to shoot. He is only going to improve.

[egokiller]

He is not going to forget how to shoot. He is only going to improve.

O really? Care to pull up Lebron's shooting percentages from various distances from the hoop for the last 10 years? There are many players who don't improve but get worse before they get better.

[BigKAT]

He is not going to forget how to shoot. He is only going to improve.

This actually happened.
A lot.

Especially to rapid improvers.

But yeah, Kawahi does not seem like the type to lose his jump shot.
Especially not in that age.

But I still say give the boy a few years before making his pedestal.

[BarberSchool]

This actually happened.
A lot.

Especially to rapid improvers.

But yeah, Kawahi does not seem like the type to lose his jump shot.
Especially not in that age.

But I still say give the boy a few years before making his pedestal.The reason why it is safer to make Kawhi's pedestal sooner, versus being patient, is because kawhi's mental makeup, work ethic, and receptiveness to hard coaching, makes him the most likely player in today's league to not only retain his exisiting top5 level, both sides of the ball performance... but also the most likely to add more facets, and IMPROVE EVEN MORE.

Kawhi is all about basketball. He is a gym rat. He drives a 1997 tahoe, and uses wingstop coupons FFS. This man is of sound mind, and singular focus. He is a safer bet to sustain and improve over the next 7 years, than any other young talent in any pro sport.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Kawhi just had a season comparable to some of Bird's best seasons impact wise. He's one of the best long range and mid range shooters in the NBA as well as being able to score in every way imaginable on the court. He can post up, take you off the dribble, step back-fade - you name it, he does it. Then you add to that he's one of the best defenders in the entire league coming off of back to back DPOY's? Forget about it. Incredibly efficient scorer, who gets his in the flow of the offense, never forcing anything and letting his teammates eat as well (very Duncan-esque).

If he wanted, he could easily ramp up his scoring at the expense of efficiency and team synergy, but he would rather win at all costs. Sound familiar? Mark my words, he will get the MVP next season or you can perma ban Milbuck. Giannis will continue leading his team to the lottery and not even making the Olympics with Greece.

:oldlol:

[BigKAT]

The reason why it is safer to make Kawhi's pedestal sooner, versus being patient, is because kawhi's mental makeup, work ethic, and receptiveness to hard coaching, makes him the most likely player in today's league to not only retain his exisiting top5 level, both sides of the ball performance... but also the most likely to add more facets, and IMPROVE EVEN MORE.

Kawhi is all about basketball. He is a gym rat. He drives a 1997 tahoe, and uses wingstop coupons FFS. This man is of sound mind, and singular focus. He is a safer bet to sustain and improve over the next 7 years, than any other young talent in any pro sport.


You know what?
This may sound crazy on ISH,

But you convinced me.
:applause:

[CTbasketball92]

I'm just not sure Kawhi is enough of a star shot-creator to be a top five player. As for the shooting, you can tell how the difference between the "I'm open and we're up" shooters and the "my team's down and I need to score more at a high level." Considering how lethal of a shooter LeBron seeemed to be in 2014 and 2013, i was a bit suprised he didnt have more points in their losing games. I think it was partially because he wasnt truly an elite shooter so he couldnt make more than he was comfortable with, where as other truly great shooters just piled it on.

[Nick Young]

Kawhi just had a season comparable to some of Bird's best seasons impact wise. He's one of the best long range and mid range shooters in the NBA as well as being able to score in every way imaginable on the court. He can post up, take you off the dribble, step back-fade - you name it, he does it. Then you add to that he's one of the best defenders in the entire league coming off of back to back DPOY's? Forget about it. Incredibly efficient scorer, who gets his in the flow of the offense, never forcing anything and letting his teammates eat as well (very Duncan-esque).

If he wanted, he could easily ramp up his scoring at the expense of efficiency and team synergy, but he would rather win at all costs. Sound familiar? Mark my words, he will get the MVP next season or you can perma ban Milbuck. Giannis will continue leading his team to the lottery and not even making the Olympics with Greece.

:oldlol:
Great post.

Kawhi is the Tim Duncan of small forwards.

[TimmyDuncan]

Great post.

Kawhi is the Tim Duncan of small forwards.

Not even close. In the early 2000s the spurs offense was built around timmy and he was able to find the open man

When Kawhi is half the passer Timmy was, we can talk

[jalbert009]

1. Lebron
2a. Durant 2b. Curry
4a. Westbrook 4b. Kawhi

I think Kawhi is top 5. Who else is there? CP3? Kawhi has him beat in a lot of areas. Blake? Kawhi has him beat in D and their offence is comparable. Paul George might be arguable except Kawhi has him beat in accolades and proven to be a better defender which is PG's supposedly strong point.

Also as someone pointed out earlier, Pop limits all his players minutes so If Kawhi given the opportunity to play more minutes he would easilly be a 25ppg player with elite defense. Also theres myth he cant create his own shot and rellies too much from assists from other team mates. But common!!? Thats Spurs Bball. They make that extra pass to get a better looking shot. Its their system. Sometimes I cringe when they do it! Im like just shoot the damn ball already but hey, it works for them.

I think a better question here is, Whos no. 4? Kawhi or Westbrook?

Kawhi is ur all around guy give u that DPOY defense and has not proven himself as the leader of his team yet. And he has yet to show that he can carry the offensive load down long stretches in the playoffs.

Westbrook is an offensive juggernaught that also plays good Defense but I truly question his shot selection and BBall IQ when under tremendous pressure. Like Kawhi, westbrook has not proven he can lead his team deep in the playoffs and be the no1 focal point of defenses every game.

This coming season will give both players a chance to cement whos better by leading ther respective teams. So back to OP question, yes Kawhi is top 5 for now unless KAT makes that leap to TOP 5 status and kick Kawhi or westbrook out.

Yes I am jumping on the Twolves/KAT bandwagon because my IDOL KG has found a worthy successor to finish what he could not in Minnisota. A ring and he Has passed the torch to KAT.

[swagga]

what separates kwahi from giannis is iq. there is a very big difference there. Whoever made this comparison certainly doesn't really understand basketball.

kwahi is a complete player, with elite defense and an efficient 25ppg+ scorer if given touches. He is the only player to rise up to the challenge of matching up with lebron in the finals. A true top 5 player. Lebron/durant/curry(only under current rules..)/kwahi are all locks in top 5.

[Smoke117]

Kawhi over CP3...lol. Leonard is a system player in the perfect situation...CHRIS PAUL IS THE SYSTEM.

[swagga]

Kawhi over CP3...lol. Leonard is a system player in the perfect situation...CHRIS PAUL IS THE SYSTEM.

maybe you should actually watch a game once in a while..

[Milbuck]

maybe you should actually watch a game once in a while..
Smoke is a colossal retard but CP3 absolutely is better than Kawhi. CP3 CARRIES his team. Kawhi is nowhere near capable of carrying a team the way CP carried the Clippers this year with Blake out. Kawhi is an amazing defender and is a really effective finisher as a scorer within the confines of the Spurs offense, but he's flat out not dynamic offensively to anchor a team like CP3 does. There's a very good reason the Spurs won 67 games in the regular season, but were exposed in the playoffs...it's because Durant and Westbrook showed what true superstars look like, while Kawhi proved he isn't capable of lifting his team's offense when it matters.

[Nick Young]

Kawhi over CP3...lol. Leonard is a system player in the perfect situation...CHRIS PAUL IS THE SYSTEM.
Yes. The system that loses and breaks apart in the playoffs.

[Nick Young]

Smoke is a colossal retard but CP3 absolutely is better than Kawhi. CP3 CARRIES his team.
He carries his team to first and second round exits.

[Smoke117]

CP3 CARRIES his team. Kawhi is nowhere near capable of carrying a team the way CP carried the Clippers this year with Blake out. Kawhi is an amazing defender and is a really effective finisher as a scorer within the confines of the Spurs offense, but he's flat out not dynamic offensively to anchor a team like CP3 does. There's a very good reason the Spurs won 67 games in the regular season, but were exposed in the playoffs...it's because Durant and Westbrook showed what true superstars look like, while Kawhi proved he isn't capable of lifting his team's offense when it matters.

http://i.imgur.com/dhMeAzK.gif

[Milbuck]

He carries his team to first and second round exits.
Oh wait, you mean like exactly what Kawhi has done in his 2 years as a true franchise player?

Except that CP3 actually does really freaking well in the playoffs individually, whereas Kawhi straight up shits himself (2015) or goes complete ghost mode in 4th quarters like this past year.

[egokiller]

Smoke is a colossal retard but CP3 absolutely is better than Kawhi. CP3 CARRIES his team. Kawhi is nowhere near capable of carrying a team the way CP carried the Clippers this year with Blake out. Kawhi is an amazing defender and is a really effective finisher as a scorer within the confines of the Spurs offense, but he's flat out not dynamic offensively to anchor a team like CP3 does. There's a very good reason the Spurs won 67 games in the regular season, but were exposed in the playoffs...it's because Durant and Westbrook showed what true superstars look like, while Kawhi proved he isn't capable of lifting his team's offense when it matters.

When it's all said and done, Kawhi will be ranked higher all time than cp3. You didn't think Kyrie was gonna do what he did in this years finals and when he did your eyes were as big as flyin fvcking saucers. We know what cp3 can give us. We have yet to know what Kawhi will give us.

[Milbuck]

When it's all said and done, Kawhi will be ranked higher all time than cp3. You didn't think Kyrie was gonna do what he did in this years finals and when he did your eyes were as big as flyin fvcking saucers. We know what cp3 can give us. We have yet to know what Kawhi will give us.
Kyrie going off in the playoffs wasn't surprising to me whatsoever. Dude is one of the coldest scorers in the league, straight up killer. Everyone knew he had that skill. Kawhi hasn't proven that at all. Regardless of his regular season impact numbers or efficiency stats, he's just never proven to be a dynamic offensive player off the dribble, which you need in the playoffs if you're a perimeter team centerpiece.

In any case, Kyrie isn't relevant here because evaluating him is based on what he actually did. He did it already. Kawhi hasn't had his Kyrie run yet, we need to evaluate him based on what he's done.

[tpols]

Kawhi over CP3...lol. Leonard is a system player in the perfect situation...CHRIS PAUL IS THE SYSTEM.

Kawhi is pippen with a jumpshot .. I am suprised at your ranking of him.

[Jameerthefear]

Kawhi is pippen with a jumpshot .. I am suprised at your ranking of him.
meh. kawhi is not nearly as good as a passer IMO

[tpols]

meh. kawhi is not nearly as good as a passer IMO

stop ruining my troll please

[Spurs5Rings2014]

ITT: People who don't watch games. Kawhi iso's a shitload and is one of the best in the league at creating his own shot. Most of his possession are him just isoing dudes up. Watch. Fcking. Games.

And what's with this revisionist history of what happened in last play offs? He took a massive, steaming shit down KD and Westbrook's throats (as did Aldridge). OKC's team was just too fugging stacked and their role-players massively outplayed ours. KD and Westbrook were both shooting like 20% from 3 and were garbage compared to Aldridge and Leonard, but Adams, Ibaka, Waiters, Roberson, etc were going apeshit and dominating our 'Others.' Everyone was sucking off Danny Green and Roberson killed him.

Like I said, Leonard will get the MVP this season with ease, putting up 24/7/3/1/2 on 50/44/88 while finishing top 3 in DPOY honors. Take it to the bank and cash the check. Bookmarked and guaranteed.

:banana:

[G-train]

I mean, he's nowhere near Lebron.


Pretty debatable.

[G-train]

Like I said, Leonard will get the MVP this season with ease

An MVP doesn't come easy. But he may win it with great difficulty.

[G-train]

Kawhi is pippen with a jumpshot .. I am suprised at your ranking of him.

Pippen and Kawhi are very different players, besides both being great defenders.

Kawhi is not as good as prime Pippen yet, but pretty close.