First Take - Lebron James rips Jordan saying he gets too much credit for his 6 rings!

[Round Mound]

WOW :wtf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-zvVclTRdU

[fourkicks44]

WOW :wtf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-zvVclTRdU


Lebron is shook.

It's about time Jordan came out of retirement, we are due for a comeback :lol

[riseagainst]

He's right. MJ's whole 6 for 6, 100% narrative is nonsensical.

[Round Mound]

He's right. MJ's whole 6 for 6, 100% narrative is nonsensical.

Not in terms of scoring and being clutch :no: . Jordan did however have more help having Pippen but he also faced better competition.

[Asukal]

Leflop knows he will never top MJ so he's trying to downplay the legend. :oldlol:

[TommyGriffin]

If LeBron is too scared to look Wade in the eye then I would hate to see what happens next time he runs into Jordan.

[Round Mound]

So much hate on Lebron in ISH...why is that? Lebron really is one of a kind but he was no Jordan. Nothing wrong with that. Jordan was and is the best perimeter player ever.

[TommyGriffin]

So much hate on Lebron in ISH...why is that? Lebron really is one of a kind but he was no Jordan. Nothing wrong with that. Jordan was and is the best perimeter player ever.
It started getting really hard to respect Bron after the first collusion.

[dazzer87]

LeSalt

[Round Mound]

Its easier to be lebron than to be kobe. The only reason why hes one of a kind coz his focus is on stats instead of winning. Weve seen players like him before(wilt and oscar). But in the end they are losers. Im sure kobe too could do it. Jordan is proof of that during 30 8 8 season. But they have no time for that. Only losers, who arent confident that they can win, care about stats.

[B]Those same stats point to MJ as the best ever too. Lebron is a great leader in terms of making others better. His passing skills are top notch all time, his athletic ability is never seen before: he can score, defend, rebound, pass and create definetly one of goat all around players. I think the collision wasnt good for him: he should have been more patient and waited for the addition of better players to Cleveland like it has been for the last two years. The pressure on him was inmense when he was young. That is something that we dont take into account. He did make mistakes (what Durant is doing now is even worst than Lebron) i agree though. The Warrios will be too much for the Cavs next season. With the addition of Durant i think its Lebron

[Kvnzhangyay]

WOW :wtf:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-zvVclTRdU

Honestly feels overblown as **** and taken out of context, after listening tot eh actual recording

[Lebron23]

Get his @$$.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Not in terms of scoring and being clutch :no: . Jordan did however have more help having Pippen but he also faced better competition.

Faced better competition? Are you on crack? Every team LeBron beat in the Finals was better than any Jordan team beat. His biggest rivals in the east were a poor man's Ray Allen, and Patrick Ewing :roll:

[plowking]

Not in terms of scoring and being clutch :no: . Jordan did however have more help having Pippen but he also faced better competition.

Faced better competition? :oldlol:

Are you serious?

Bron's last 3 opponents are better than anything Jordan has ever faced in the finals.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Leflop knows he will never top MJ so he's trying to downplay the legend. :oldlol:

Funny how all the talk was for years how LeBron would never pass Kobe, now its the Jordan stans getting nervous :oldlol: You guys have been a mess since the 16 Finals. LeBron winning it with that Cleveland team did a number on you ladies. As for the OP, I don't think he really cares so much about Jordan. But he has a habit of pumping up 80s/90s players to make Barkley better for not winning a ring. Here is the thing, Barkley wouldn't have won rings in any era. The guy was a fat, lazy, and an atrocious leader.

[Da_Realist]

Insecure. Finds one gamewinning shot that MJ didn't make and tries to make it normative. The reality is MJ scored all the Bulls points in the 4th leading up to that shot.

[LostCause]

Faced better competition? Are you on crack? Every team LeBron beat in the Finals was better than any Jordan team beat. His biggest rivals in the east were a poor man's Ray Allen, and Patrick Ewing :roll:

This is demonstrably false, but even if I provide evidence of it being false seeing as you're a troll I don't expect you to understand it or change your tune, so it's pointless

Lebron's finals opponents on average were better than the Finals opponents Jordan faced, but not all of them and when you include the opponents Jordan faced leading up to the Finals (which you foolishly did), then it becomes more clear that you're a troll

For the OP, Bron wasn't accurate with his statements about that game and this was pointed out weeks ago so I don't see why this is relevant

[StephHamann]

So much hate on Lebron in ISH...why is that? Lebron really is one of a kind but he was no Jordan. Nothing wrong with that. Jordan was and is the best perimeter player ever.

Your boy Charles was Jordan's bitch.

[swagga]

Not in terms of scoring and being clutch :no: . Jordan did however have more help having Pippen but he also faced better competition.

:roll:

[GrapeApe]

Faced better competition? Are you on crack? Every team LeBron beat in the Finals was better than any Jordan team beat. His biggest rivals in the east were a poor man's Ray Allen, and Patrick Ewing :roll:

And the east that Lebron has faced has been a murderer's row? :oldlol:

And can we stop overrating the 2016 Warriors? That team lost 6 playoff games before the finals. By comparison, Jordan beat 4 teams who had lost 4 or fewer playoff games before the finals. Historic regular season or not, the 2016 Warriors were inconsistent and generally unimpressive throughout the playoffs.

[Asukal]

Funny how all the talk was for years how LeBron would never pass Kobe, now its the Jordan stans getting nervous :oldlol: You guys have been a mess since the 16 Finals. LeBron winning it with that Cleveland team did a number on you ladies. As for the OP, I don't think he really cares so much about Jordan. But he has a habit of pumping up 80s/90s players to make Barkley better for not winning a ring. Here is the thing, Barkley wouldn't have won rings in any era. The guy was a fat, lazy, and an atrocious leader.

Yeah because 3/7 is a serious threat to Jordan's legacy. :rolleyes: :oldlol: :roll: :facepalm :hammerhead:

[ralph_i_el]

Yeah because 3/7 is a serious threat to Jordan's legacy. :rolleyes: :oldlol: :roll: :facepalm :hammerhead:


Yeah but if he ends up at like 5/10, to me that's in the same neighborhood as 6/6 (obviously depending on the context)

[bond10]

Yeah but if he ends up at like 5/10, to me that's in the same neighborhood as 6/6 (obviously depending on the context)

You're gonna compare Lebron's 5/10 to MJ's 6/6 using context?!??! That **** sailed after his collusions and WOAT finals in 2011.

[bdreason]

The Jazz, Sonics, Blazers, and Suns were all legitimate Finals opponents. I think all of them had more talented rosters than the Thunder or Spurs teams the Heat beat.

[Lebron23]

You're gonna compare Lebron's 5/10 to MJ's 6/6 using context?!??! That **** sailed after his collusions and WOAT finals in 2011.


You are still a terrible poster. Thou shall not compare Kobe to LeBron again by the way.

And LeBron in 2011 > Kobe in 2004 and 2000.

[LostCause]

The Jazz, Sonics, Blazers, and Suns were all legitimate Finals opponents. I think all of them had more talented rosters than the Thunder or Spurs teams the Heat beat.

The only team Bron beat in the Finals that ranks higher in Elo or SRS than the 97 Jazz are the 15/16 Warriors

So the Top 5 by SRS for the Finals opponents both Lebron and MJ defeated would look like this

1. 15-16 Warriors - 10.38 (This is an insane mark. Better than any of Birds Celtics team, FWIW)
2. 96-97 Jazz - 7.97
3. 95-96 Sonics - 7.40
4. 91-92 Blazers - 6.94
5. 90-91 Lakers - 6.73

(For what its worth, the Spurs win would be 6th here at 6.67 followed by Barkleys Suns)

If you go by Finals opponents FACED (Win or Lose)

1. 15-16 Warriors - 10.38
2. 14-15 Warriors - 10.01
3. 06-07 Spurs - 8.35
4. 13-14 Spurs - 8.00
5. 96-97 Jazz - 7.97

So comparing Lebron/Jordans Finals opponents has interesting trends. Lebron has clearly played superior teams more often IN the Finals, but he hasn't always won. Jordans championships have usually come against superior teams with the exception of the Warriors who have a ridiculous 10.38 SRS rating. If you average out the SRS of each of their title-winning Finals, it looks like this

Jordan: 6.84
Lebron: 7.83

The 98 Jazz drag Jordan down as the worst Finals team he faced. The 15 Warriors significantly boost Bron's average as significantly the best team either of them defeated

So it's accurate to say Lebron has usually faced better competition, but it's only half truths as the teams he's actually beaten, with the exception of one of them, are worse.

[NBASTATMAN]

Faced better competition? Are you on crack? Every team LeBron beat in the Finals was better than any Jordan team beat. His biggest rivals in the east were a poor man's Ray Allen, and Patrick Ewing :roll:

JOHN Starks was a great defender and Ray never was.. Ray was a better offensive player but MJ would have killed him.. Reggie Miller is on the record saying that John Starks was the best defender he faced..

[ClipperRevival]

The only team Bron beat in the Finals that ranks higher in Elo or SRS than the 97 Jazz are the 15/16 Warriors

So the Top 5 by SRS for the Finals opponents both Lebron and MJ defeated would look like this

1. 15-16 Warriors - 10.38 (This is an insane mark. Better than any of Birds Celtics team, FWIW)
2. 96-97 Jazz - 7.97
3. 95-96 Sonics - 7.40
4. 91-92 Blazers - 6.94
5. 90-91 Lakers - 6.73

(For what its worth, the Spurs win would be 6th here at 6.67 followed by Barkleys Suns)

If you go by Finals opponents FACED (Win or Lose)

1. 15-16 Warriors - 10.38
2. 14-15 Warriors - 10.01
3. 06-07 Spurs - 8.35
4. 13-14 Spurs - 8.00
5. 96-97 Jazz - 7.97

So comparing Lebron/Jordans Finals opponents has interesting trends. Lebron has clearly played superior teams more often IN the Finals, but he hasn't always won. Jordans championships have usually come against superior teams with the exception of the Warriors who have a ridiculous 10.38 SRS rating. If you average out the SRS of each of their title-winning Finals, it looks like this

Jordan: 6.84
Lebron: 7.83

The 98 Jazz drag Jordan down as the worst Finals team he faced. The 15 Warriors significantly boost Bron's average as significantly the best team either of them defeated

So it's accurate to say Lebron has usually faced better competition, but it's only half truths as the teams he's actually beaten, with the exception of one of them, are worse.

You mean the same Jazz team that swept one of the most stacked teams on paper in the 1997-98 Lakers (Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Excel, Fox) was considered weak? The same Jazz team that had HCA over the aging Bulls? Damn.

[Da_Realist]

Warriors were overrated. They won in the regular season because teams didnmt have time to focus on them. The Playoffs afforded teams an opportunity to sit down, focus for two weeks and gameplan against all the weird hiccups and off beat Warriors style. Then we saw who the Warriors were all along. People laughed at Pippen when he said the Bulls would sweep that gimmicky team. That took balls because the Warriors were destroying the league at the time but the Bulls would have had no problems beating them in 5.

They didn't just lose to Cleveland and almost lost to OKC -- they were blown out every other loss.

[pauk]

Honestly feels overblown as **** and taken out of context, after listening tot eh actual recording

Exactly what i wanted to say, after hearing what Lebron said and then seeing Stephen A Smith go insane melting down for like 20 mins i was like "WTF did i miss!? Lebron said all that shit about Jordan!?" and went googling for the remaining interview looking for & expecting Lebron to go chant "**** JORDAN!!" for hours, none... that recording, thats all Lebron did say... :oldlol:

[TommyGriffin]

Warriors were overrated. They won in the regular season because teams didnmt have time to focus on them. The Playoffs afforded teams an opportunity to sit down, focus for two weeks and gameplan against all the weird hiccups and off beat Warriors style. Then we saw who the Warriors were all along. People laughed at Pippen when he said the Bulls would sweep that gimmicky team. That took balls because the Warriors were destroying the league at the time but the Bulls would have had no problems beating them in 5.

They didn't just lose to Cleveland and almost lost to OKC -- they were blown out every other loss.
This guy watched zero Warrior games last year. Every single team went all out on the Warriors, at first trying to break their undefeated streak and then after to try to stop the 73 win record from happening. Almost every game they played was playoff intensity. Non-contenders were putting it all on the line against the Warriors because it was the highlight of their season to try to dethrone them and the streak.

[Screamin A Smit]

This guy watched zero Warrior games last year. Every single team went all out on the Warriors, at first trying to break their undefeated streak and then after to try to stop the 73 win record from happening. Almost every game they played was playoff intensity. Non-contenders were putting it all on the line against the Warriors because it was the highlight of their season to try to dethrone them and the streak.

Agreed, Warriors were the best team of all time and Lebron used them as his personal toilet

Great point :cheers:

[Da_Realist]

This guy watched zero Warrior games last year. Every single team went all out on the Warriors, at first trying to break their undefeated streak and then after to try to stop the 73 win record from happening. Almost every game they played was playoff intensity. Non-contenders were putting it all on the line against the Warriors because it was the highlight of their season to try to dethrone them and the streak.

Listen and read to Isiah Thomas

http://cdn16.castfire.com/audio/303/2117/7825/2688710/audiomikeandmike_2016-02-26-092610-3953-0-1-0.32.mp3?cdn_id=33&uuid=ccaa86c4c2c00183f628ad68b4f176cf&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.espn.com%2Fgeneral%2Fplay%3 Fid%3D14849780

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/12/25/sports/basketball/golden-state-warriors-cleveland-cavaliers-christmas-day.html?_r=1&referer=

[LostCause]

You mean the same Jazz team that swept one of the most stacked teams on paper in the 1997-98 Lakers (Shaq, Kobe, Jones, Van Excel, Fox) was considered weak? The same Jazz team that had HCA over the aging Bulls? Damn.

Yeah, it's all relative. They weren't weak nor are they considered weak, they just weren't as good as the other teams Jordan faced in the Finals. The Jazz just a year before were the best team he faced in the Finals so imagine that (This according to SRS, of course, which I find more reliable than Elo)

Honestly it's crazy how high the Warriors rank. Over 10 SRS is rare air (No Kobe/Shaq Laker team got over 9). I guess if there was a method that measured playoff success it may be more valid (The Warriors would fall off hard here while the Lakers would dominate) but that's here nor there

Elo rating does factor in playoff success, so if you were going by that you have:

For Finals Opponents defeated:
1. 15-16 Warriors (1798)
2. 96-97 Jazz (1735)
3. 97-98 Jazz (1733)
4. 12-13 Spurs (1717)
5. 11-12 Thunder (1713)

(Sonics come in sixth at 1707)

Finals Oponents faced (Win or Lose)
1. 15 16 Warriors (1798)
2. 14-15 Warriors (1796)
3. 13-14 Spurs (1742)
4. 96-97 Jazz (1735)
5. 97-98 Jazz (1733)

(12-13 Spurs 6th at 1717)

So really they both say a pretty similar thing, just a few teams move up or down depending on which ratings you use. Lebron has faced the best team between them twice (Warriors), and won against the best team between them (Warriors again). The Jazz are better than any team Lebrons beaten outside of the Warriors, though

So it's correct to say Lebron has faced better competition in the Finals, just not all the time and if you're only judging Finals wins, then just once

[Lebowski]

Some people just doesn't know when to shut up.

[feyki]

He's right . Jordan became "Jordan" with his anomaly level in 88-91 ( 91 finals was everest ) .

[GrapeApe]

This guy watched zero Warrior games last year. Every single team went all out on the Warriors, at first trying to break their undefeated streak and then after to try to stop the 73 win record from happening. Almost every game they played was playoff intensity. Non-contenders were putting it all on the line against the Warriors because it was the highlight of their season to try to dethrone them and the streak.

He never said that teams didn't go all out, he said that teams didn't have as much time to prepare. When teams had time to focus and game-plan, they were able to disrupt their system. This is far from a new phenomenon. We've seen many teams in the past have great regular seasons and look pedestrian in the playoffs. As I mentioned before, the Warriors lost 6 games before even reaching the finals. That's nearly as many as they lost in the entire regular season.