16 Finals Was LeBron's Legacy Win

[SilkkTheShocker]

Anything from here on he accomplishes is gravy. He could retire today and be considered a top 3 player of all-time. Can you imagine if another underdog Cleveland team beats another stacked GS team? The LeBron for GOAT are only going to get louder. That is why the 16 Finals were so painful for LeBron haters. That was honestly worst case scenario for them.

[FreezingTsmoove]

But he still has a losing record in the finals to the Warriors and can be beaten by them next year...again... Which would only add onto the losing record :(

So far Bron has 3 losing records in the finals to 3 different franchises :(

His legacy has ways to go my bro

[Mr Feeny]

As long as 3 fmvps and 4 MVP's are in the bank, everything else is a bonus.

He has top 3 on lock. It's all good from here on out. Doesnt matter if he misses the playoffs 4 seasons on the bounce on the way to retirement ala kobe:lol he's cemented top 3 with this year's title.

[SilkkTheShocker]

But he still has a losing record in the finals to the Warriors and can be beaten by them next year...again... Which would only add onto the losing record :(

So far Bron has 3 losing records in the finals to 3 different franchises :(

His legacy has ways to go my bro

Which Finals will be remembered more in NBA history? The 15 Finals or 16 Finals? Not hard to pick. As for 15, LeBron putting on a godly performance to make it a series is the narrative of that series. It isn't about anything the Warriors did. It's about them getting pushed to 6 games by LeBron and his D-league supporting cast. The fact alone the series went as far as it did absolutely takes away from anything the Warriors accomplished that series. It's an empty ring, that won't be remembered fondly in history at all.

[IllegalD]

But he still has a losing record in the finals to the Warriors and can be beaten by them next year...again... Which would only add onto the losing record :(

So far Bron has 3 losing records in the finals to 3 different franchises :(

His legacy has ways to go my bro


Shhhhh don't tell them that. It might shatter their fragile little illusion.

Although deep down inside they must know it which is why they're preemptively melting down and making all these threads.

LeBron Stans are just like their hero. They think if they keep repeating things over and over that it'll just magically become true.

:roll: :lol :banana:

[IllegalD]

Which Finals will be remembered more in NBA history? The 15 Finals or 16 Finals? Not hard to pick. As for 15, LeBron putting on a godly performance to make it a series is the narrative of that series. It isn't about anything the Warriors did. It's about them getting pushed to 6 games by LeBron and his D-league supporting cast. The fact alone the series went as far as it did absolutely takes away from anything the Warriors accomplished that series. It's an empty ring, that won't be remembered fondly in history at all.

Is that why every single analyst on ESPN (who LOVE LeBron) laughed at LeBron when he made the statement that he was chasing Jordan's ghost. And pretty much 99.9% of them agreed that AT BEST he can "put himself in the conversation" IF he beats these new Warriors team, but that the MJ ship sailed long ago (losing 4 finals, jumping ship twice)? :confusedshrug: :lol

[FreezingTsmoove]

Which Finals will be remembered more in NBA history? The 15 Finals or 16 Finals? Not hard to pick. As for 15, LeBron putting on a godly performance to make it a series is the narrative of that series. It isn't about anything the Warriors did. It's about them getting pushed to 6 games by LeBron and his D-league supporting cast. The fact alone the series went as far as it did absolutely takes away from anything the Warriors accomplished that series. It's an empty ring, that won't be remembered fondly in history at all.

The rivalry isnt even over so you cant say what will be remembered more

If Curry and dem bois molly whop Lebron next finals no one will care about 16

[Lebron23]

The best ever.

[LAZERUSS]

One Kyrie shot away from losing.

Not only that, but he was an unwarranted Draymond Green suspension away from yet another pure choking Finals. He was completely passive in the first four games of the series...which included an embarrassing game four in which he stats-padded down the stretch. With his team down by 9 points, with 46 seconds remaining...on three straight possessions, and needing three's each time...he instead drove the down the lane where the Warriors gladly handed him layups.

[KirbyPls]

One Kyrie shot away from losing.

Not only that, but he was an unwarranted Draymond Green suspension away from yet another pure choking Finals. He was completely passive in the first four games of the series...which included an embarrassing game four in which he stats-padded down the stretch. With his team down by 9 points, with 46 seconds remaining...on three straight possessions, and needing three's each time...he instead drove the down the lane where the Warriors gladly handed him layups.

Ilt stans should never bring up embarrassing postseason performances honestly, and no wall of text can change that.

[red1]

Haters have nothing. It's over.

The king has been crowned.

http://gamedaysportsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/King-James-e1431664729945.jpg

[aj1987]

One Kyrie shot away from losing.
The score was tied at that point, you inbred hick. This is why you need to watch the games. Besides, LeBron scored 11 of the teams 18 points in the 4th. Including a stretch during which he scored 8 straight and brought the Cavs back up from down 4 to give them a 2 point lead.


Not only that, but he was an unwarranted Draymond Green suspension away from yet another pure choking Finals. He was completely passive in the first four games of the series...which included an embarrassing game four in which he stats-padded down the stretch. With his team down by 9 points, with 46 seconds remaining...on three straight possessions, and needing three's each time...he instead drove the down the lane where the Warriors gladly handed him layups.
25/11/8/2/2 on 48%. Better than literally any of the mental midget, Ilt Chokerlain's, Finals.

Also, since you obviously do not understand how FF points work:

Green was suspended because he accrued more than the permissible amount of flagrant foul points. It was an AUTOMATIC suspension.

Inb4 50,000 words worth of excuses. :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

Ilt stans should never bring up embarrassing postseason performances honestly, and no wall of text can change that.


While Lebron was SAVED by Allen and Kyrie in '13 and '16...

Chamberlain LOST two rings by Johnny Egan dribble, and a Hal Greer pass.

Wilt could easily have had FOUR rings, and LeChoke, ONE.

[red1]

While Lebron was SAVED by Allen and Kyrie in '13 and '16...

Chamberlain LOST two rings by Johnny Egan dribble, and a Hal Greer pass.

Wilt could easily have had FOUR rings, and LeChoke, ONE.

How can you be saved when you are putting up all-time performances? Did you even think that through for a second?

Do you know what the word saved means? :oldlol:

[Wally450]

The rivalry isnt even over so you cant say what will be remembered more

If Curry and dem bois molly whop Lebron next finals no one will care about 16

He didn't say anything about rivalry. He said Finals. 16 will clearly be remembered more than 15 because of all the storylines involved with the 16 series. (1st team to come back from 3-1 in the Finals, beating a 73 win team, etc.)

Everyone will remember 2016 as the year Curry couldn't handle the pressure as unanimous MVP and choked away a 3-1 lead in the Finals with home court advantage.

As for this season, there's no pressure for LeBron to win. Durant, who's a top 5 player in the league, went to a 73 win team with a unanimous MVP and other All NBA talents. All the pressure is on them to win. If they don't, they'll be the laughing stock of the NBA. It doesn't matter if "Curry and dem bois molly whop LeBron next Finals" because they are stacked to the rafters and should win.

[aj1987]

While Lebron was SAVED by Allen and Kyrie in '13 and '16...

Chamberlain LOST two rings by Johnny Egan dribble, and a Hal Greer pass.

Wilt could easily have had FOUR rings, and LeChoke, ONE.
But in the real world, not la la land, LeBron has 3 (one being a GOAT level performance) and the mental midget got carried to two.

[LAZERUSS]

The score was tied at that point, you inbred hick. This is why you need to watch the games. Besides, LeBron scored 11 of the teams 18 points in the 4th. Including a stretch during which he scored 8 straight and brought the Cavs back up from down 4 to give them a 2 point lead.


25/11/8/2/2 on 48%. Better than literally any of the mental midget, Ilt Chokerlain's, Finals.

Also, since you obviously do not understand how FF points work:

Green was suspended because he accrued more than the permissible amount of flagrant foul points. It was an AUTOMATIC suspension.

Inb4 50,000 words worth of excuses. :oldlol:

Lebron went 0-4 in the last four minutes, and needed Kyrie to WIN the game (as well as Chokurry puking all over the floor.)

Green was not even called for a FOUL in that game. Yet, the NBA looked at Lebron taunting him, and a Green attempted tap, as enough to suspend him.

It was an atrocious call by the league, and it ultimately decided the series.

And not better than Wilt's "Finals" in '65, when he put up a 30-31-8 .560 TS% series against the 62-18 Celtics. The same Celtics that would blow out the Baylor-less Lakers 4-1 in the Finals.

In fact, not even close. Wilt was clutch in that game seven...scoring 30 points, including the Sixers last 8 points, with 32 rebounds...and on a .698 TS%. Meanwhile, LeChoke shoots 9-24, and misses his last four shots. ASnd while a teammate cost Wilt a ring, a teammate won a ring for LeChoke.

Of course, when Wilt had an equally talented roster, that was healthy (and reasonably coached)...he slaughtered the "Dynasty" (four points away in game four of s sweep), en route to a dominating title.

Too bad Wilt didn't have teammates carrying him to titles.

[FreezingTsmoove]

He didn't say anything about rivalry. He said Finals. 16 will clearly be remembered more than 15 because of all the storylines involved with the 16 series. (1st team to come back from 3-1 in the Finals, beating a 73 win team, etc.)

Everyone will remember 2016 as the year Curry couldn't handle the pressure as unanimous MVP and choked away a 3-1 lead in the Finals with home court advantage.

As for this season, there's no pressure for LeBron to win. Durant, who's a top 5 player in the league, went to a 73 win team with a unanimous MVP and other All NBA talents. All the pressure is on them to win. If they don't, they'll be the laughing stock of the NBA. It doesn't matter if "Curry and dem bois molly whop LeBron next Finals" because they are stacked to the rafters and should win.

So when Lebron colludes and wins we say he is the greatest but if Curry colludes and wins it doesnt matter because they are supposed to win

Face it Lebrons legacy takes ANOTHER major hit with another finals loss and you cant deny it

Lets see if the colluder can beat the colluded!

[SouBeachTalents]

One Kyrie shot away from losing.

Not only that, but he was an unwarranted Draymond Green suspension away from yet another pure choking Finals. He was completely passive in the first four games of the series...which included an embarrassing game four in which he stats-padded down the stretch. With his team down by 9 points, with 46 seconds remaining...on three straight possessions, and needing three's each time...he instead drove the down the lane where the Warriors gladly handed him layups.

Lol, wow, all you do now is hate on every single player that isn't Wilt. Look at the nitpicking you do here to criticize a GOAT level Finals performance, yet you'll write an encyclopedia defending every single setback Wilt had in his career, while blaming everybody and everything for his short comings while not giving him even an iota of criticism, even when he deserves it. The hypocrisy is astounding

[AirBonner]

Lebron went 0-4 in the last four minutes, and needed Kyrie to WIN the game (as well as Chokurry puking all over the floor.)

Green was not even called for a FOUL in that game. Yet, the NBA looked at Lebron taunting him, and a Green attempted tap, as enough to suspend him.

It was an atrocious call by the league, and it ultimately decided the series.

And not better than Wilt's "Finals" in '65, when he put up a 30-31-8 .560 TS% series against the 62-18 Celtics. The same Celtics that would blow out the Baylor-less Lakers 4-1 in the Finals.

In fact, not even close. Wilt was clutch in that game seven...scoring 30 points, including the Sixers last 8 points, with 32 rebounds...and on a .698 TS%. Meanwhile, LeChoke shoots 9-24, and misses his last four shots. ASnd while a teammate cost Wilt a ring, a teammate won a ring for LeChoke.

Of course, when Wilt had an equally talented roster, that was healthy (and reasonably coached)...he slaughtered the "Dynasty" (four points away in game four of s sweep), en route to a dominating title.

Too bad Wilt didn't have teammates carrying him to titles.
Op has MULTIPLE stan bases FUMING :oldlol:

[LAZERUSS]

But in the real world, not la la land, LeBron has 3 (one being a GOAT level performance) and the mental midget got carried to two.

Nope...not in the real world.

In the real world, TEAMs win rings...not players. And no one more than LeChoke can thank his teammates for his.

Allen and Kyrie handing two rings to LeChoke.

Egan and Greer throwing two of Wilt's down the toilet.

[red1]

So when Lebron colludes and wins we say he is the greatest but if Curry colludes and wins it doesnt matter because they are supposed to win

Face it Lebrons legacy takes ANOTHER major hit with another finals loss and you cant deny it

Lets see if the colluder can beat the colluded!
Are you not capable of logical thought? Joining a 73-win team that already won a championship with that same exact roster is not the same as joining a NEW team and leading them to the chip.

Use your head son.

[tpols]

Laz has a point.. in Lebron's four Finals losses, he has gotten trounced ('07, '11, '14, '15) .. but in 2/3 of his wins his team has eeked it out by one shot not made by himself, but by a teammate ('13, '16). So he was much closer to losing more than he was to winning more.


The fact of the matter is that the only thing separating Lebron from having an even worse record than Wilt is pure luck of his guys bailing him out on those few possesions and Wilt's not..

[LAZERUSS]

Lol, wow, all you do now is hate on every single player that isn't Wilt. Look at the nitpicking you do here to criticize a GOAT level Finals performance, yet you'll write an encyclopedia defending every single setback Wilt had in his career, while blaming everybody and everything for his short comings while not giving him even an iota of criticism, even when he deserves it. The hypocrisy is astounding

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Evidently you haven't read ANYONE else's posts have you.

Wilt is called a "loser" and a "choker" when you can barely find single games in his entire playoff career in which he performed poorly...and was FIVE game seven's away from FIVE more rings...

A post-season career in which Chamberlain routinely demolished his HOF peers. ...and in almost every post-season outgunned by much HOF-laden rosters...

but LeChoke is praised for a post-season career littered with flop jobs (very appropriate BTW)...and had his ass saved by teammates...all while playing his entire career in a conference where he almost guaranteed a trip to the Finals (and where he could beef up his stats against POS's.)


Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

[aj1987]

Lebron went 0-4 in the last four minutes, and needed Kyrie to WIN the game (as well as Chokurry puking all over the floor.)
LeBron save the game with his block on Iggy. That saved the game. His FT's sealed it.


Green was not even called for a FOUL in that game. Yet, the NBA looked at Lebron taunting him, and a Green attempted tap, as enough to suspend him.
Yeah, trying to hit people in the crotch does tend to get you a FLAGRANT FOUL. Once again, since you seem to me extremely slow, Green was given a FF and LeBron a technical. Due to his prior FF's he accumulated points, which got him suspended.


And not better than Wilt's "Finals" in '65, when he put up a 30-31-8 .560 TS% series against the 62-18 Celtics. The same Celtics that would blow out the Baylor-less Lakers 4-1 in the Finals.
Lost the series.


In fact, not even close. Wilt was clutch in that game seven...scoring 30 points, including the Sixers last 8 points, with 32 rebounds...and on a .698 TS%. Meanwhile, LeChoke shoots 9-24, and misses his last four shots. ASnd while a teammate cost Wilt a ring, a teammate won a ring for LeChoke.
LeBron won the game for his team with his 11 4th Q points and incredible defense. His block and game sealing FT won him a ring.

The mental midget? He lost.


Of course, when Wilt had an equally talented roster, that was healthy (and reasonably coached)...he slaughtered the "Dynasty" (four points away in game four of s sweep), en route to a dominating title.
tl;dr - Chokerlain needed ultra stacked teams, filled with elite ATG players, and an elite HC to win a title.

Gotcha. :cheers:


Too bad Wilt didn't have teammates carrying him to titles.
1972.

You're melting down because LeBron is universally considered to be better than your lover. Sad.


Nope...not in the real world.

In the real world, TEAMs win rings...not players. And no one more than LeChoke can thank his teammates for his.

Allen and Kyrie handing two rings to LeChoke.

Egan and Greer throwing two of Wilt's down the toilet.
tl;dr - LeBron won and the mental midget choked.

https://s21.postimg.org/4xydfoobr/image.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/8b/d8/1a/8bd81a50eb70b4f479f5a77d891c133d.jpg

[SouBeachTalents]

Laz has a point.. in Lebron's four Finals losses, he has gotten trounced ('07, '11, '14, '15) .. but in 2/3 of his wins his team has eeked it out by one shot not made by himself, but by a teammate ('13, '16). So he was much closer to losing more than he was to winning more.


The fact of the matter is that the only thing separating Lebron from having an even worse record than Wilt is pure luck of his guys bailing him out on those few possesions and Wilt's not..

Nobody's gotten bailed out more in the playoffs than Kobe

Horry buzzer beater vs Kings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQDsZljAOY

Fisher buzzer beater vs Spurs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-u4pIQyjfE

Fisher 3 pointer vs Magic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VquoPzITjSI

Gasol series winner vs Thunder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orsbX3HrUmE

Artest buzzer beater vs Suns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww_xWQsw_WM

Artest 3 pointer vs Celtics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

5 series altering shot & the dagger in Game 7 of the Finals

[aj1987]

Too bad nobody's gotten bailed out more than Kobe Bryant

Horry buzzer beater vs Kings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQDsZljAOY

Fisher buzzer beater vs Spurs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-u4pIQyjfE

Fisher 3 pointer vs Magic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VquoPzITjSI

Gasol series winner vs Thunder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orsbX3HrUmE

Artest buzzer beater vs Suns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww_xWQsw_WM

Artest 3 pointer vs Celtics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

5 series altering shot & the dagger in Game 7 of the Finals
Bruh, don't do em like that!

https://s17.postimg.org/yu6rkyy9b/Morton_Ether_1846.jpg

[tpols]

southbeach none of those shots were series deciders.. they all came somewhere in the middle w/ a ton of potential action to follow.. even the artest shot, the Lakers were already up by 3 at that point, so that wasn't a "save" shot either.. just a dagger, not the same thing at all as make it or lose.

[ArbitraryWater]

Nobody's gotten bailed out more in the playoffs than Kobe

Horry buzzer beater vs Kings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQDsZljAOY

Fisher buzzer beater vs Spurs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-u4pIQyjfE

Fisher 3 pointer vs Magic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VquoPzITjSI

Gasol series winner vs Thunder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orsbX3HrUmE

Artest buzzer beater vs Suns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww_xWQsw_WM

Artest 3 pointer vs Celtics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

5 series altering shot & the dagger in Game 7 of the Finals

bruh

[aj1987]

southbeach none of those shots were series deciders.. they all came somewhere in the middle w/ a ton of potential action to follow.. even the artest shot, the Lakers were already up by 3 at that point, so that wasn't a "save" shot either.. just a dagger, not the same thing at all as do or die at all.
There was a whole minute after Kyrie made the 3. :rolleyes:

You got wrecked. Move on.

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Evidently you haven't read ANYONE else's posts have you.

Wilt is called a "loser" and a "choker" when you can barely find single games in his entire playoff career in which he performed poorly...and was FIVE game seven's away from FIVE more rings...

A post-season career in which Chamberlain routinely demolished his HOF peers. ...and in almost every post-season outgunned by much HOF-laden rosters...

but LeChoke is praised for a post-season career littered with flop jobs (very appropriate BTW)...and had his ass saved by teammates...all while playing his entire career in a conference where he almost guaranteed a trip to the Finals (and where he could beef up his stats against POS's.)


Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

OK, so trolling back isn't going to solve anything or make you look any better. Most rationale fans acknowledge Wilt had to go up against a superior Celtics dynasty most of his career, but as we've argued before I think Wilt shouldn't get a complete pass for the '68-'70 seasons, when he was 1 win away each year from taking home the championship yet walked off empty handed.

Ray & Kyrie hit humongous shots, two of the biggest ever, that doesn't take away from what LeBron had to do for those teams, leading them in points/assists/rebounds every championship playoff run, and in this case in the Finals leading BOTH teams in every statistical category. If you hate on that you're no better than the neanderthal LeBron haters who give him no credit for anything he's done in his career

[LAZERUSS]

Nobody's gotten bailed out more in the playoffs than Kobe

Horry buzzer beater vs Kings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYQDsZljAOY

Fisher buzzer beater vs Spurs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-u4pIQyjfE

Fisher 3 pointer vs Magic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VquoPzITjSI

Gasol series winner vs Thunder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orsbX3HrUmE

Artest buzzer beater vs Suns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww_xWQsw_WM

Artest 3 pointer vs Celtics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-mT99HCFFI

5 series altering shot & the dagger in Game 7 of the Finals

What's Kobe have to do with this?

BTW, without Kobe CARRYING the Lakers against the Spurs in '01 and '02, Shaq, who was quite often single-covered by MALIK ROSE, ...as well as Kobe CARRYING LA against SA in '04 and then later on destroying them in '08...

and Shaq is minus TWO rings.

And for those that claim that Kobe had one-on-one coverage...

just watch him DUNKING on BOTH Duncan and Robinson...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HtbJFEzJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QWdsVQN_BE


And how about these games...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Wb9fSzefk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXVxcLm2qQ


And in the CLUTCH...

It was ALWAYS Kobe against the Spurs.

[tpols]

haha .. so easy to get the whole bron brigade out.. all you have to do is lay down a simple truth... and they flock

[aj1987]

What's Kobe have to do with this?

BTW, without Kobe CARRYING the Lakers against the Spurs in '01 and '02, Shaq, who was quite often single-covered by MALIK ROSE, ...as well as Kobe CARRYING LA against SA in '04 and then later on destroying them in '08...

and Shaq is minus TWO rings.

And for those that claim that Kobe had one-on-one coverage...

just watch him DUNKING on BOTH Duncan and Robinson...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HtbJFEzJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QWdsVQN_BE


And how about these games...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Wb9fSzefk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXVxcLm2qQ


And in the CLUTCH...

It was ALWAYS Kobe against the Spurs.
Single coverage from Malik Rose.... Just like how the mental midget was primarily guarded by the Celtics' PG. Yet, he choked his ass off in the PO's.

[tpols]

Ray & Kyrie hit humongous shots, two of the biggest ever, that doesn't take away from what LeBron had to do for those teams, leading them in points/assists/rebounds every championship playoff run, and in this case in the Finals leading BOTH teams in every statistical category. If you hate on that you're no better than the neanderthal LeBron haters who give him no credit for anything he's done in his career

your stanning of lebron is blinding you to the other side of the argument.. Wilt was ALSO a dominant in the flow of the game player who had tremendous impact in every facet of the game.. he's a center that has led the league in everything ~ assists, scoring, rebounding, defense .. so he too, like LeBron had to give tremendous impact just to get to the brink of winning.. the only difference was Wilt's teammates didnt make the plays / shots on those couple possessions while Bron's did.


Laz is only giving dumb trolls like aj and feeny their own medicine.. and you're apparently too blind to see that

[aj1987]

your stanning of lebron is blinding you to the other side of the argument.. Wilt was ALSO a dominant in the flow of the game player who had tremendous impact in every facet of the game.. he's a center that has led the league in everything ~ assists, scoring, rebounding, defense .. so he too, like LeBron had to give tremendous impact just to get to the brink of winning.. the only difference was Wilt's teammates didnt make the plays / shots on those couple possessions while Bron's did.


Laz is only giving dumb trolls like aj and feeny their own medicine.. and you're apparently too blind to see that
You're calling others trolls. Irony at its finest. :oldlol:

[SouBeachTalents]

What's Kobe have to do with this?

BTW, without Kobe CARRYING the Lakers against the Spurs in '01 and '02, Shaq, who was quite often single-covered by MALIK ROSE, ...as well as Kobe CARRYING LA against SA in '04 and then later on destroying them in '08...

and Shaq is minus TWO rings.

And for those that claim that Kobe had one-on-one coverage...

just watch him DUNKING on BOTH Duncan and Robinson...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HtbJFEzJM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QWdsVQN_BE


And how about these games...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Wb9fSzefk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aXVxcLm2qQ


And in the CLUTCH...

It was ALWAYS Kobe against the Spurs.

It's strange you frequently bring this argument up, probably to diminish Shaq. Kobe was always great against the Spurs and was the Lakers best player against them, but I'm not gonna act like Shaq was "carried" in those series when he still put up monster numbers in '01 & '04 and had the much more difficult assignment in Duncan

[LAZERUSS]

OK, so trolling back isn't going to solve anything or make you look any better. Most rationale fans acknowledge Wilt had to go up against a superior Celtics dynasty most of his career, but as we've argued before I think Wilt shouldn't get a complete pass for the '68-'70 seasons, when he was 1 win away each year from taking home the championship yet walked off empty handed.

Ray & Kyrie hit humongous shots, two of the biggest ever, that doesn't take away from what LeBron had to do for those teams, leading them in points/assists/rebounds every championship playoff run, and in this case in the Finals leading BOTH teams in every statistical category. If you hate on that you're no better than the neanderthal LeBron haters who give him no credit for anything he's done in his career

NO ONE here defended Lebron more than I did prior to this past Finals. Hell, I had to fight walls of text from 3Ball, whose only goal here was to belittle Lebron.

However, Lebron went from being called a choking clown here...to all of a sudden a Top-5 player...based on THREE games?

No way in hell.

CONTEXT.

Lebron has played in the POS East his entire career. And in the one time in which he faced a quality Eastern team...the '08 Celtics...he shot .355 against them...and of course, LOST.

He has played like shit in the '07 Finals (shooting a laughable .356)...in a sweeping loss. He was an innocent bystander in the '11 Finals (BTW, his ppg drop was nearly 10 ppg from his regular season.)

He played well in '12 and '13, but even then, needed HCA (thanks to playing in the East) and a series-saving Ray Allen shot, to win a ring in '13.

In '14, while he was statistically playing well, he had ZERO impact, and was involved in the most one-sided loss in Finals history.

'15, I have always given him credit for how he played...but the reality was, he was mostly defended by Iguodala, who not only held him to a .398 FG%...but even won the FMVP.

'16. Again...he was on his way to a blowout Finals loss. He had embarrassed himself for most of the first four games...including a laughable last 46 secs, in game four, when he stats-padded his way to six more freebies. Thanks to a horrific series-deciding suspension of Green (as well as injuries to Bogut and Iggy), and Kyrie's game winning shot...he won another ring. He played brilliantly in those three games...but again...the differences between Wilt's "losing" and Lebron's "winning" wouldn't be seen with a microscope.


Incidently, I thought I addressed Wilt's '68-'70. Now you tell me who played with more heart... Wilt in '68 (with SEVERAL injuries, including a muscle tear in his calf...and STILL put up a 22-25-7 seven game series), Wilt in '70 (when he returned way ahead of even the most optomistic medical opinion...and STILL put up a 23-24 .625 seven game Finals)...

Or Lebron pulling himself out of a game one in the '14 Finals...with a LEG CRAMP...en route to watching his team get destroyed in five games?

[tpols]

You're calling others trolls. Irony at its finest. :oldlol:

dumb trolls*

[SouBeachTalents]

NO ONE here defended Lebron more than I did prior to this past Finals. Hell, I had to fight walls of text from 3Ball, whose only goal here was to belittle Lebron.

However, Lebron went from being called a choking clown here...to all of a sudden a Top-5 player...based on THREE games?

No way in hell.

CONTEXT.

Lebron has played in the POS East his entire career. And in the one time in which he faced a quality Eastern team...the '08 Celtics...he shot .355 against them...and of course, LOST.

He has played like shit in the '07 Finals (shooting a laughable .356)...in a sweeping loss. He was an innocent bystander in the '11 Finals (BTW, his ppg drop was nearly 10 ppg from his regular season.)

He played well in '12 and '13, but even then, needed HCA (thanks to playing in the East) and a series-saving Ray Allen shot, to win a ring in '13.

In '14, while he was statistically playing well, he had ZERO impact, and was involved in the most one-sided loss in Finals history.

'15, I have always given him credit for how he played...but the reality was, he was mostly defended by Iguodala, who not only held him to a .398 FG%...but even won the FMVP.

'16. Again...he was on his way to a blowout Finals loss. He had embarrassed himself for most of the first four games...including a laughable last 46 secs, in game four, when he stats-padded his way to six more freebies. Thanks to a horrific series-deciding suspension of Green (as well as injuries to Bogut and Iggy), and Kyrie's game winning shot...he won another ring. He played brilliantly in those three games...but again...the differences between Wilt's "losing" and Lebron's "winning" wouldn't be seen with a microscope.


Incidently, I thought I addressed Wilt's '68-'70. Now you tell me who played with more heart... Wilt in '68 (with SEVERAL injuries, including a muscle tear in his calf...and STILL put up a 22-25-7 seven game series), Wilt in '70 (when he returned way ahead of even the most optomistic medical opinion...and STILL put up a 23-24 .625 seven game Finals)...

Or Lebron pulling himself out of a game one in the '14 Finals...with a LEG CRAMP...en route to watching his team get destroyed in five games?

LeBron has some black marks on his resume, 2011 is really WOAT level, but so does every player in history that isn't Jordan, yes even including Wilt. Just curious though, where do you rank LeBron all time then?

[LAZERUSS]

It's strange you frequently bring this argument up, probably to diminish Shaq. Kobe was always great against the Spurs and was the Lakers best player against them, but I'm not gonna act like Shaq was "carried" in those series when he still put up monster numbers in '01 & '04 and had the much more difficult assignment in Duncan

It's to defend Kobe here. People act he was a minor contributor in the three-peat. Hell, he saved the Lakers in the '00 Finals in an OT game in which Shaq fouled out.

BTW, remove Kobe, and Shaq for sure doesn't get to the Finals in '01 and '02 (nor '04), and likely not even in '00. And in the three-peat Finals, he basically bullied his way to three FMVPs against mostly shit opposition (and was allowed to bloody Mutombo to a pulp.)

As for defending Duncan...

The ONLY times Shaq defended Duncan, by design anyway, were in the 4th quarters of their playoff H2H's. Granted, he did shut him down (even in the majority of their '03 WCF's, when the Spurs won.)

And again, this NONSENSE that the Spurs were "triple-teaming" Shaq is just pure shit. Duncan rarely defended him one-on-one at all...but Robinson would defend him, basically one-on-one, until he got in foul trouble. Popovich loaded up on centers in the 2000's just for Shaq. He had guys like Malik Rose and Kevin Willis playing him one-on-one.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/nba/02playoffs/bonus-shaq.htm


San Antonio, even though it lost the season series to the Lakers 3-1 this season, is one of the few teams that can meet O'Neal's strength with strength of its own. Seldom do they match Tim Duncan against O'Neal, but David Robinson has the strength and quickness to at least offer some resistance. Robinson has a good enough outside shot to draw O'Neal away from the basket at the other end.

O'Neal was the most fouled player in the league, 9.3 times a game, and he went to the line a league-high 10.7 times a game.

"I never get tired. I get beat up," O'Neal says of the multitude of strategies against him.

One of the best at guarding O'Neal is 6-7, 255 pound Spurs reserve Malik Rose, who bodies up well and is just basically annoying.

"You can't be afraid of him, that's the first rule," Rose says

Now granted, there were times when the Spurs would collapse on Shaq, but in most cases, it was Shaq one-on-one with D-Rob, and a host of other centers.

[LAZERUSS]

LeBron has some black marks on his resume, 2011 is really WOAT level, but so does every player in history that isn't Jordan, yes even including Wilt. Just curious though, where do you rank LeBron all time then?

Jordan has his share of black-eyes, too.

Everyone remembers his game two of the '86 Celtics series...but how about his play in the clinching game three blowout loss? 22 points on 8-18 shooting. Very next year...same teams...again... SWEPT, and in the clinching game... 9-30 from the field.

How about game five of the '89 ECF's against the Pistons. Just QUIT. And everyone there KNEW it. Just plain QUIT...took... 8 ...yes EIGHT shots...in a series that was tied 2-2.

His '96 Finals weren'y particularly glowing, either. Shot .415 from the field (and something like .350 when Payton guarded him), including a series clinching game of 5-19 from the field.


As for where I rank Lebron...I had him at #9 before this year...just below Kobe, and just ahead of Bird.

Now, I have him at somewhere in the 6-8 range...with Shaq and Duncan.

[Mr Feeny]

While Lebron was SAVED by Allen and Kyrie in '13 and '16...

Chamberlain LOST two rings by Johnny Egan dribble, and a Hal Greer pass.

Wilt could easily have had FOUR rings, and LeChoke, ONE.

Lebron averaged 36, 12, 10 , 3, 3 on 51%fg to bring them back from and achieve unprecedented comeback.

He is the only man in history to lead all teams in all categories and this finals by him was better than Kobe and Wilt's best finals put together. Stay mad that Lebron is considered top 3 while your idols are tiers below him.

[Mr Feeny]

Jordan has his share of black-eyes, too.

Everyone remembers his game two of the '86 Celtics series...but how about his play in the clinching game three blowout loss? 22 points on 8-18 shooting. Very next year...same teams...again... SWEPT, and in the clinching game... 9-30 from the field.

How about game five of the '89 ECF's against the Pistons. Just QUIT. And everyone there KNEW it. Just plain QUIT...took... 8 ...yes EIGHT shots...in a series that was tied 2-2.

His '96 Finals weren'y particularly glowing, either. Shot .415 from the field (and something like .350 when Payton guarded him), including a series clinching game of 5-19 from the field.


As for where I rank Lebron...I had him at #9 before this year...just below Kobe, and just ahead of Bird.

Now, I have him at somewhere in the 6-8 range...with Shaq and Duncan.

Unfortunately for you, the general consensus is that Lebron is top 3 at worst and much higher than Wilt or Kobe on the all time list.

[HurricaneKid]

southbeach none of those shots were series deciders.. they all came somewhere in the middle w/ a ton of potential action to follow.. even the artest shot, the Lakers were already up by 3 at that point, so that wasn't a "save" shot either.. just a dagger, not the same thing at all as make it or lose.

The Horry shot kept LAL from going down 3-1 with 2 road games left to the superior team. There is only one dude that could ever bring a team back from a brink like that. Lets not pretend that wasn't every bit as important as a shot hit in a tie game with 1:00 to go.

[Mr Feeny]

The Horry shot kept LAL from going down 3-1 with 2 road games left to the superior team. There is only one dude that could ever bring a team back from a brink like that. Lets not pretend that wasn't every bit as important as a shot hit in a tie game with 1:00 to go.

Ofcourse not!:lol why would you expect logic from a butthurt Kobe stan who's angry lebron cemented top 3 in the all time list while his idol retired at 12th and with a pathetic 35% shooting season in which he led the Lakers to the worst record in franchise history?:lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

One Kyrie shot away from losing.

Not only that, but he was an unwarranted Draymond Green suspension away from yet another pure choking Finals. He was completely passive in the first four games of the series...which included an embarrassing game four in which he stats-padded down the stretch. With his team down by 9 points, with 46 seconds remaining...on three straight possessions, and needing three's each time...he instead drove the down the lane where the Warriors gladly handed him layups.



Green played in Games 6 and 7. What happened again?

[SilkkTheShocker]

Op has MULTIPLE stan bases FUMING :oldlol:

Honestly, it's too easy, bro. The 16 Finals was the worst thing that could have happened to LeBron haters. There is nothing they can do you hate on it. It's going to go down as one of the best Finals wins off all-time, and all they can do is b.itch and moan about it. It took two months, but the haters are back from their holes :lol

[SilkkTheShocker]

Nope...not in the real world.

In the real world, TEAMs win rings...not players. And no one more than LeChoke can thank his teammates for his.

Allen and Kyrie handing two rings to LeChoke.

Egan and Greer throwing two of Wilt's down the toilet.


LeBron getting Miami out of a 15 point hole in the 4th quarter is the only reason why Allen had a chance to tie the game. You forgot that part, Corky. LeBron's legacy is still growing. Nothing Wilt can do to change his image of being a loser.

[SilkkTheShocker]

haha .. so easy to get the whole bron brigade out.. all you have to do is lay down a simple truth... and they flock

Says the poster that legit changed his avatar to LeBron and posted in all his threads since the Finals. Look at your activity since the 16 Finals. Sounds like some good ol' rent free to me, son.

[Terahite]

One Kyrie shot away from losing.

Cavs won by 4.

[aj1987]

dumb trolls*
Yeah, get bent in every discussion and run away, calling posters trolls. :oldlol:

[knicksman]

It's strange you frequently bring this argument up, probably to diminish Shaq. Kobe was always great against the Spurs and was the Lakers best player against them, but I'm not gonna act like Shaq was "carried" in those series when he still put up monster numbers in '01 & '04 and had the much more difficult assignment in Duncan

Shaq is pretty useless in the clutch. Thats why he only won when kobe came. Theres more to basketball than stats my friend.

[houston]

silk keep bringing it:cheers:

[Hey Yo]

NO ONE here defended Lebron more than I did prior to this past Finals. Hell, I had to fight walls of text from 3Ball, whose only goal here was to belittle Lebron.

However, Lebron went from being called a choking clown here...to all of a sudden a Top-5 player...based on THREE games?

No way in hell.

CONTEXT.

Lebron has played in the POS East his entire career. And in the one time in which he faced a quality Eastern team...the '08 Celtics...he shot .355 against them...and of course, LOST.
:rolleyes:

Underdog to the 2007 Pistons in the ECF. Won 4-2 with a jaw dropping game 5 performance...ON THE ROAD!

Won in double OT WITH jAMES scoring their last 25pts and 29 of 30 for 48-9-7 and the 2pt win.

Bulls in 2011 "on the road" as the 2 seed. Chicago swept them in the reg. season and most thought it could be easy for the MVP and Chicago after winning the first game by 21pts.....I could go on, Chico.

It's not like LeBron only had to play and win one 3 game series in order to play in the Finals like Wilt had the luxury of doing

[Hoopz2332]

But he still has a losing record in the finals to the Warriors and can be beaten by them next year...again... Which would only add onto the losing record :(

So far Bron has 3 losing records in the finals to 3 different franchises :(

His legacy has ways to go my bro


he's already consensus top 3, no lower than 5 and some even have him at 2. His legacy isn't going to drop, it can only get higher.:rockon:

Any Given Wednesday with Bill Simmons: LeBron on track to become the GOAT (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdCu2C6_4iQ