would the 2016 cavs even make the playoffs

[AirBonner]

Without Lebron?

[FreezingTsmoove]

Yes

Keep in mind the trash brothers were 2 wins away from the finals and 6 away from a title :lol

The state of the league last year was the weakest I have ever seen

[SilkkTheShocker]

Honestly? No. I just don't see it. Kyrie is one of the most talented players in the league. But he had some bad habits before LeBron was able to teach him how to win.

[SouBeachTalents]

Yes, but we would've had to endure a Warriors-Raptors Finals :lol

[BigKAT]

I don't think so.
The east was pretty hard.

I give them 40 wins.
Obviously they would be better without lebron for a whole season then they were without him for just a few games (Because they'd be prepared for it, if you get my point.)

But I don't think they make the playoffs last season.

[HurricaneKid]

Ky missed a TON of time coming back from the knee injury. He wasn't in the top 300 in league in RAPM. So he really didn't get back to full steam until the playoffs.

Without LeBron on the floor the Cavs were -4.8 pts/100. That's ~just behind the Bucks for 27th in the league. Miles behind the #9 seed Chicago Bulls.

So no, frankly it doesn't look like the team he took to a CHIP was even a playoff team.

And in the PLAYOFFS the Cavs were -7.2 pts/100 without him on the floor.

[Velocirap31]

Ky missed a TON of time coming back from the knee injury. He wasn't in the top 300 in league in RAPM. So he really didn't get back to full steam until the playoffs.

Without LeBron on the floor the Cavs were -4.8 pts/100. That's ~just behind the Bucks for 27th in the league. Miles behind the #9 seed Chicago Bulls.

So no, frankly it doesn't look like the team he took to a CHIP was even a playoff team.

And in the PLAYOFFS the Cavs were -7.2 pts/100 without him on the floor.

Best answer. :applause:

[Hoopz2332]

no they wouldn't


This is how the Cavs players performed in +/- playing with LeBron versus playing without LeBron on court over the course of the season. To me, these numbers demonstrate the true greatness of LeBron James. Without LeBron, it could be argued that the Cavs are mediocre. The team is lost without him. LeBron carried this team to the championship, not just by making a Herculean effort in the Finals, but he did it throughout the season too. LeBron is the Cavs. The Cavs are LeBron.


WITH and WITHOUT LeBron James

WITH min per 48 | WITHOUT min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
Frye + 3.9 8.2 + 22.8 | - 2.1 10.7 - 9.4 | +32.2
Delly + 5.6 16.8 + 16.0 | - 0.1 9.1 - 0.5 | +16.5
Shumpert + 3.4 12.5 + 13.1 | + 0.3 12.8 + 1.1 | +11.9
Thompson + 5.6 20.7 + 13.0 | - 0.9 8.8 - 4.9 | +17.9
Love + 6.7 27.4 + 11.7 | - 0.8 6.2 - 6.2 | +17.9
Smith + 5.3 26.9 + 9.5 | - 1.0 6.3 - 7.6 | +17.1
Irving + 4.2 23.6 + 8.5 | 0.0 10.0 0.0 | + 8.5
Jefferso + 1.0 7.3 + 6.6 | - 1.3 12.7 - 4.9 | +11.5
Williams + 1.9 15.8 + 5.8 | - 2.7 6.3 -20.6 | +26.3



These are outrageous numbers. The kind of difference LeBron makes is huge. Without LeBron on court, each player gets net losses across the board. With him, massive positives. The difference is staggering.

As a comparison, here are the same with-without +/- stats for the other members of the "Big 3". Or perhaps "massive 1 and biggish 2"?

Irving:


WITH and WITHOUT Irving

WITH WITHOUT
"+/-" min per 48 "+/-" min per 48 DIFFERENCE
James + 4.2 23.6 + 8.5 | + 5.4 20.4 + 12.7 | - 4.2
Smith + 2.3 22.2 + 5.0 | + 2.5 15.8 + 7.6 | - 2.6
Thompson + 4.4 27.7 + 7.6 | + 3.9 31.5 + 5.9 | + 1.7
Love + 2.8 23.1 + 5.8 | + 3.9 17.3 +10.8 | - 5.0
Shumpert + 1.1 13.0 + 4.1 | + 2.4 12.8 + 9.0 | - 4.9
Delly + 1.4 8.8 + 7.6 | + 4.3 19.8 +10.4 | - 2.8
Frye + 0.7 9.6 + 3.5 | + 0.6 9.2 + 3.1 | + 0.4
Jeffers + 0.6 8.0 + 3.6 | - 0.9 13.3 - 3.2 | + 6.8
Willia - 1.0 3.5 -13.7 | - 1.0 17.6 - 2.7 | -11.0

This doesn't paint Irving's impact on his teammates in a particularly positive light. He is getting big credit for stepping up in the Finals, but his impact based on regular season +/- is not as impressive, especially for a "superstar". Statistically, the other two of the Big 3 actually preferred when they are playing without Irving. And this applies to several others too. Dissing Irving might be a dangerous thing to do around here, so I will just say: basketball is a team game.

And Love:


WITH and WITHOUT Love

WITH | WITHOUT |
+/- min per 48 | "+/-" min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
James + 6.7 27.4 + 11.7 | + 1.8 9.7 + 8.9 | + 2.8
Irving + 2.8 23.1 + 5.8 | + 1.4 10.5 + 6.4 | - 0.6
Smith + 3.3 23.8 + 6.7 | + 0.9 8.4 + 5.1 | + 1.5
Thompson + 4.0 16.6 + 11.6 | + 0.7 12.4 + 2.7 | + 8.9
Shumpert + 2.8 11.0 + 12.2 | + 0.8 14.4 + 2.7 | + 9.6
Delly + 4.5 14.1 + 15.3 | + 0.8 11.4 + 3.4 | + 12.0
Frye - 1.0 5.0 - 9.6 | + 1.7 15.5 + 5.3 | - 14.9
Jefferson + 0.1 7.5 + 0.6 | - 0.7 11.5 - 2.9 | + 3.6
Williams + 1.4 14.7 + 4.6 | - 2.4 7.1 -16.2 | + 20.8




To honour the departing Delly, here is how the Cavs players played with and without him. Somehow Delly seems to add more value that the lesser 2 of the Big 3.

Delly:


WITH and WITHOUT Delly

WITH | WITHOUT |
"+/-" min per 48 | "+/-" min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
James +5.6 16.8 +16.0 | +3.0 20.4 +7.1 | +8.9
Irving +1.4 8.8 +7.6 | +2.8 24.7 +5.4 | +2.2
Smith +3.2 12.6 +12.2 | +1.2 19.4 +3.0 | +9.2
Thompson +3.0 15.2 +9.5 | +1.6 13.8 +5.6 | +3.9
Love +4.5 14.1 +15.3 | +1.4 18.5 +3.6 | +11.7
Shumpert +2.3 13.9 +7.9 | +1.4 11.7 +5.7 | +2.2
Frye +0.3 10.7 +1.3 | +1.0 7.7 +6.2 | -4.9
Jeffers +0.9 10.6 +4.1 | -1.5 8.4 -8.6 | +12.6
Williams +1.8 7.3 +11.8 | -2.4 14.7 -7.8 | +19.7

[JT123]

Ky missed a TON of time coming back from the knee injury. He wasn't in the top 300 in league in RAPM. So he really didn't get back to full steam until the playoffs.

Without LeBron on the floor the Cavs were -4.8 pts/100. That's ~just behind the Bucks for 27th in the league. Miles behind the #9 seed Chicago Bulls.

So no, frankly it doesn't look like the team he took to a CHIP was even a playoff team.

And in the PLAYOFFS the Cavs were -7.2 pts/100 without him on the floor.
Agreed.

[Bigsmoke]

With kyrie missing as much games as he did? No

[AintNoSunshine]

The team would have no leadership, no stability, no athleticism, no toughness and no defense. For as much talent they have among Kyrie, Love and JR, I am not confident they would have made the Playoffs.

[LostCause]

They would've made the playoffs

Defensively they'd suffer, but offensively they should be fine. Have to remember that the team would have a completely different offense without Bron and guys like Love and Kyrie would go back to their natural roles. This is different from a pool of games that Bron has missed because this team would legitimately have spent ample time playing around their stars (Love/Irving) instead of through Bron

They'd be a 1st or 2nd round team, though, mainly because of the lack of depth and weak defense. Unless Lue is a better coach than I think he is, but you can't really tell since Bron can and has overachieved with coaches in over their heads before

If we're just assuming Bron was gone for last season, the experience gained from the prior season where they made it to the Finals should boost fringe guys like Smith, Thompson etc and force Irving to be more of a leader

[moongaze]

no they wouldn't


This is how the Cavs players performed in +/- playing with LeBron versus playing without LeBron on court over the course of the season. To me, these numbers demonstrate the true greatness of LeBron James. Without LeBron, it could be argued that the Cavs are mediocre. The team is lost without him. LeBron carried this team to the championship, not just by making a Herculean effort in the Finals, but he did it throughout the season too. LeBron is the Cavs. The Cavs are LeBron.


WITH and WITHOUT LeBron James

WITH min per 48 | WITHOUT min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
Frye + 3.9 8.2 + 22.8 | - 2.1 10.7 - 9.4 | +32.2
Delly + 5.6 16.8 + 16.0 | - 0.1 9.1 - 0.5 | +16.5
Shumpert + 3.4 12.5 + 13.1 | + 0.3 12.8 + 1.1 | +11.9
Thompson + 5.6 20.7 + 13.0 | - 0.9 8.8 - 4.9 | +17.9
Love + 6.7 27.4 + 11.7 | - 0.8 6.2 - 6.2 | +17.9
Smith + 5.3 26.9 + 9.5 | - 1.0 6.3 - 7.6 | +17.1
Irving + 4.2 23.6 + 8.5 | 0.0 10.0 0.0 | + 8.5
Jefferso + 1.0 7.3 + 6.6 | - 1.3 12.7 - 4.9 | +11.5
Williams + 1.9 15.8 + 5.8 | - 2.7 6.3 -20.6 | +26.3



These are outrageous numbers. The kind of difference LeBron makes is huge. Without LeBron on court, each player gets net losses across the board. With him, massive positives. The difference is staggering.

As a comparison, here are the same with-without +/- stats for the other members of the "Big 3". Or perhaps "massive 1 and biggish 2"?

Irving:


WITH and WITHOUT Irving

WITH WITHOUT
"+/-" min per 48 "+/-" min per 48 DIFFERENCE
James + 4.2 23.6 + 8.5 | + 5.4 20.4 + 12.7 | - 4.2
Smith + 2.3 22.2 + 5.0 | + 2.5 15.8 + 7.6 | - 2.6
Thompson + 4.4 27.7 + 7.6 | + 3.9 31.5 + 5.9 | + 1.7
Love + 2.8 23.1 + 5.8 | + 3.9 17.3 +10.8 | - 5.0
Shumpert + 1.1 13.0 + 4.1 | + 2.4 12.8 + 9.0 | - 4.9
Delly + 1.4 8.8 + 7.6 | + 4.3 19.8 +10.4 | - 2.8
Frye + 0.7 9.6 + 3.5 | + 0.6 9.2 + 3.1 | + 0.4
Jeffers + 0.6 8.0 + 3.6 | - 0.9 13.3 - 3.2 | + 6.8
Willia - 1.0 3.5 -13.7 | - 1.0 17.6 - 2.7 | -11.0

This doesn't paint Irving's impact on his teammates in a particularly positive light. He is getting big credit for stepping up in the Finals, but his impact based on regular season +/- is not as impressive, especially for a "superstar". Statistically, the other two of the Big 3 actually preferred when they are playing without Irving. And this applies to several others too. Dissing Irving might be a dangerous thing to do around here, so I will just say: basketball is a team game.

And Love:


WITH and WITHOUT Love

WITH | WITHOUT |
+/- min per 48 | "+/-" min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
James + 6.7 27.4 + 11.7 | + 1.8 9.7 + 8.9 | + 2.8
Irving + 2.8 23.1 + 5.8 | + 1.4 10.5 + 6.4 | - 0.6
Smith + 3.3 23.8 + 6.7 | + 0.9 8.4 + 5.1 | + 1.5
Thompson + 4.0 16.6 + 11.6 | + 0.7 12.4 + 2.7 | + 8.9
Shumpert + 2.8 11.0 + 12.2 | + 0.8 14.4 + 2.7 | + 9.6
Delly + 4.5 14.1 + 15.3 | + 0.8 11.4 + 3.4 | + 12.0
Frye - 1.0 5.0 - 9.6 | + 1.7 15.5 + 5.3 | - 14.9
Jefferson + 0.1 7.5 + 0.6 | - 0.7 11.5 - 2.9 | + 3.6
Williams + 1.4 14.7 + 4.6 | - 2.4 7.1 -16.2 | + 20.8




To honour the departing Delly, here is how the Cavs players played with and without him. Somehow Delly seems to add more value that the lesser 2 of the Big 3.

Delly:


WITH and WITHOUT Delly

WITH | WITHOUT |
"+/-" min per 48 | "+/-" min per 48 | DIFFERENCE
James +5.6 16.8 +16.0 | +3.0 20.4 +7.1 | +8.9
Irving +1.4 8.8 +7.6 | +2.8 24.7 +5.4 | +2.2
Smith +3.2 12.6 +12.2 | +1.2 19.4 +3.0 | +9.2
Thompson +3.0 15.2 +9.5 | +1.6 13.8 +5.6 | +3.9
Love +4.5 14.1 +15.3 | +1.4 18.5 +3.6 | +11.7
Shumpert +2.3 13.9 +7.9 | +1.4 11.7 +5.7 | +2.2
Frye +0.3 10.7 +1.3 | +1.0 7.7 +6.2 | -4.9
Jeffers +0.9 10.6 +4.1 | -1.5 8.4 -8.6 | +12.6
Williams +1.8 7.3 +11.8 | -2.4 14.7 -7.8 | +19.7



Funny how you say basketball is a team game then use a team based stat to judge an individual player. +/- doesn't give you an accurate assessment of the players impact on the game.

[Hoopz2332]

Funny how you say basketball is a team game then use a team based stat to judge an individual player. +/- doesn't give you an accurate assessment of the players impact on the game.

a team game where individual play stands out more than other sports like baseball and football:wtf:

[HurricaneKid]

Funny how you say basketball is a team game then use a team based stat to judge an individual player. +/- doesn't give you an accurate assessment of the players impact on the game.

Adjusted +/- stats with big enough data sets ARE THE WAY to show on court impact.

[SamuraiSWISH]

With Kyrie missing a quarter of the season again? Absolutely no.

Love has proven he's a loner and a terrible leader. You think he's getting the best out of JR and TT every night? Hah.

If Kyrie were to ever remain healthy for an entire season, their lineup as it stands without LeBron could get to the playoffs. And in the east possibly the 2nd round.

[moongaze]

Adjusted +/- stats with big enough data sets ARE THE WAY to show on court impact.

+/- doesn't specifically point to the individual players impact as it's based on the team effort. It's not an accurate stat and dude posted the regular season numbers when Irving was coming back from injury. These Lebron Stan's make me laugh Kyrie hits the three to save Lebron and win the title now y'all are so quick to dismiss him. I guess Lebron would be better of like he was in the 2015 finals without love and Kyrie

[Da_Realist]

Of course not. Lebron's style of play demands that he dominates all the basketball decisions so when/if he leaves, no one else on his team is prepared to fill his shoes. This shouldn't be the only way to judge a player's value.

For instance, I think if you replace Kobe with Lebron on those early 00's Lakers teams that utilized an offense that forced everyone to be a decision maker and rewarded off ball movement and relied a lot on Kobe's late game heroics and shot making capability in particular, Lebron would be a fish out of water and there's no way they would have won 3 straight titles. The only way they didn't win 5 or 6 titles is because of egos and personality clashes, not chemistry related to the meshing of talent.

[JT123]

Of course not. Lebron's style of play demands that he dominates all the basketball decisions so when/if he leaves, no one else on his team is prepared to fill his shoes. This shouldn't be the only way to judge a player's value.

For instance, I think if you replace Kobe with Lebron on those early 00's Lakers teams that utilized an offense that forced everyone to be a decision maker and rewarded off ball movement and relied a lot on Kobe's late game heroics and shot making capability in particular, Lebron would be a fish out of water and there's no way they would have won 3 straight titles. The only way they didn't win 5 or 6 titles is because of egos and personality clashes, not chemistry related to the meshing of talent.
:facepalm What little credibility you had is now gone. congratz

[JT123]

These Lebron Stan's make me laugh Kyrie hits the three to save Lebron and win the title now y'all are so quick to dismiss him. I guess Lebron would be better of like he was in the 2015 finals without love and Kyrie
:biggums: How exactly did that 3 "save Lebron" :facepalm
The game was tied moron, and Lebron scored on the very next possession anyway. Cavs win the title with or without Kyrie's 3 pointer, but they certainly DO NOT win without Lebron's GOAT block on Iggy. :D

[moongaze]

:biggums: How exactly did that 3 "save Lebron" :facepalm
The game was tied moron, and Lebron scored on the very next possession anyway. Cavs win the title with or without Kyrie's 3 pointer, but they certainly DO NOT win without Lebron's GOAT block on Iggy. :D

It gave them the lead and the only reason he scored on the next possession is because Kyrie brought the ball up the court, beating Thompson, and made a nice assist to Lebron.

Even if iguodala made the layup, Kyrie's three would have still given the cavs the lead. Guess Bron losers need a reminder if how the team looks when Lebron tries to do it all himself. 2007, 2010, 2015 come to mind

[JT123]

It gave them the lead and the only reason he scored on the next possession is because Kyrie brought the ball up the court, beating Thompson, and made a nice assist to Lebron.

Even if iguodala made the layup, Kyrie's three would have still given the cavs the lead. Guess Bron losers need a reminder if how the team looks when Lebron tries to do it all himself. 2007, 2010, 2015 come to mind
No. :no: Iggy makes that layup and ALL of the momentum is on the Warriors side. Kyrie even admitted that the only reason he attempted a 3 is because the game was tied and he figured why not try for some breathing room. No way does he have the confidence to take and make that shot if the Cavs are trailing and the crowd is energizing the Warriors defense.
Kyrie had a good Finals, but I think fanbois like you are forgetting the losing brand of basketball he played before Lebron taught him how to win. 2012, 2013, and 2014 come to mind

[moongaze]

No. :no: Iggy makes that layup and ALL of the momentum is on the Warriors side. Kyrie even admitted that the only reason he attempted a 3 is because the game was tied and he figured why not try for some breathing room. No way does he have the confidence to take and make that shot if the Cavs are trailing and the crowd is energizing the Warriors defense.
Kyrie had a good Finals, but I think fanbois like you are forgetting the losing brand of basketball he played before Lebron taught him how to win. 2012, 2013, and 2014 come to mind

Thats all speculation based on nothing but assumptions. even those assumptions are wrong. I Find it funny how you say that a player that's hit multiple game winners in his career would lack the confidence to take a game winning shot. At no point in time did he say he took the shot because the game was tied. He said that he'd been studying a lot of finals games and he saw that a three pointers late in tight games usually swing momentum and give the team that made it confidence to win the game.

We have an example of what is more important. Just look at game 1 of the 2015 finals. Kyrie blocks curry, cavs get the ball back and go on to lose because Lebron missed the step back three. Kyrie's block, like Lebron block, didn't win the game. Both games had crucial blocks but had different outcomes based on the shot that came after the block. Nthis indicates that the shot was the more important play in both games.

By most accounts, Kyrie is the same player as he was pre Lebron so is it really a case of Lebron teaching him how to win or him just being on better teams?

It would have been hard for anyone to make those tanking cavs teams winners

[Hey Yo]

+/- doesn't specifically point to the individual players impact as it's based on the team effort. It's not an accurate stat and dude posted the regular season numbers when Irving was coming back from injury. These Lebron Stan's make me laugh Kyrie hits the three to save Lebron and win the title now y'all are so quick to dismiss him. I guess Lebron would be better of like he was in the 2015 finals without love and Kyrie
There were 56 seconds left in the game when the shot went in. If he misses, James gets the rebound, makes a layup and the Cavs go on to win the title.....does that mean LeBron saved Kyrie's ass for taking an un-needed contested 3pt shot?

[Prime_Shaq]

How are LeBron fans arguing they didn't need Kyrie's 3? That 3 tore the heart out of Golden State just as much as LeBron's block did. I'm the biggest Shaq fan and I can admit Kobe hit some huge shots in the clutch for him, big deal. Give credit where credit is due.

[Hey Yo]

How are LeBron fans arguing they didn't need Kyrie's 3? That 3 tore the heart out of Golden State just as much as LeBron's block did. I'm the biggest Shaq fan and I can admit Kobe hit some huge shots in the clutch for him, big deal. Give credit where credit is due.
They are?

[Cap'n Obvious]

It is impossible to know.

[moongaze]

There were 56 seconds left in the game when the shot went in. If he misses, James gets the rebound, makes a layup and the Cavs go on to win the title.....does that mean LeBron saved Kyrie's ass for taking an un-needed contested 3pt shot?

More hypotheticals and assumptions that aren't rooted in reality.

[Annyong!]

There were 56 seconds left in the game when the shot went in. If he misses, James gets the rebound, makes a layup and the Cavs go on to win the title.....does that mean LeBron saved Kyrie's ass for taking an un-needed contested 3pt shot?
This hypothetical reminds me of when Bosh rebounded and kicked it to Ray Allen to save LeBron.

[tpols]

This hypothetical reminds me of when Bosh rebounded and kicked it to Ray Allen to save LeBron.

this .. it's just a wild ass assumption in the first place though.. yea kyrie misses, bron was just going to waltz in and get a game winning put back..

look at the play



http://i.giphy.com/zdwVbFBMQM0qQ.gif


bron doesnt even attempt to go after a potential rebound .. he's sitting in the corner watching. K-Love was the only one who crashed.

bran fam resorting to just tossing aside reality and make up an alternate one where kyrie misses and bron makes something instead.. :lol

[moongaze]

bran fam resorting to just tossing aside reality and make up an alternate one where kyrie misses and bron makes something instead.. :lol

:oldlol:

[aj1987]

this .. it's just a wild ass assumption in the first place though.. yea kyrie misses, bron was just going to waltz in and get a game winning put back..

look at the play



http://i.giphy.com/zdwVbFBMQM0qQ.gif


bron doesnt even attempt to go after a potential rebound .. he's sitting in the corner watching. K-Love was the only one who crashed.

bran fam resorting to just tossing aside reality and make up an alternate one where kyrie misses and bron makes something instead.. :lol
Yeah, because the game is over when it's a tie game and neither team has scored in the past 4+ minutes.

Fact #1 - LeBron had the game saving block
Fact #2 - LeBron killed GSW's momentum by scoring 6 straight and turning a 4 point deficit into a 2 point lead
Fact #3 - LeBron hit the game sealing FT

[moongaze]

Yeah, because the game is over when it's a tie game and neither team has scored in the past 4+ minutes.

Fact #1 - LeBron had the game saving block
Fact #2 - LeBron killed GSW's momentum by scoring 6 straight and turning a 4 point deficit into a 2 point lead
Fact #3 - LeBron hit the game sealing FT

Lol how was it a game saving block? There was over a minute left before the block and the cavs scored several times after the block. Wow, he hit a free throw that was given to him after Kyrie drove nearly the entire length of the court and dropped it off to him while he was wide open. I'll give you fact 2 but the rest are garbage. I think perhaps love and Irving need to take another vacation once the playoffs come around so Bron fans can get reminded of what happens when Bron actually tries to do it himself

[aj1987]

Lol how was it a game saving block? There was over a minute left before the block and the cavs scored several times after the block. Wow, he hit a free throw that was given to him after Kyrie drove nearly the entire length of the court and dropped it off to him while he was wide open. I'll give you fact 2 but the rest are garbage.
The block was as much game saving as Kyrie's shot was game winning. Iggy scores, the momentum is with GSW and massive pressure on the Cavs to score, take the lead, and get stops.

LeBron was wide open? Are you blind or did you just not watch the game. I'm just gonna assume the latter.


I think perhaps love and Irving need to take another vacation once the playoffs come around so Bron fans can get reminded of what happens when Bron actually tries to do it himself
Without Love and Kyrie, LeBron carried the Cavs to 2 wins against the Warriors. They were actually up 2-1 against a 67 win team. Maybe LeBron needs to take a vacation so that you guys can realize the kind of impact LeBron has on teams.

In '15, when LeBron missed 8 straight games, the Cavs went 1-7. :oldlol:

[JebronLames]

Lol how was it a game saving block? There was over a minute left before the block and the cavs scored several times after the block. Wow, he hit a free throw that was given to him after Kyrie drove nearly the entire length of the court and dropped it off to him while he was wide open. I'll give you fact 2 but the rest are garbage. I think perhaps love and Irving need to take another vacation once the playoffs come around so Bron fans can get reminded of what happens when Bron actually tries to do it himself
LeCoach called that last play that lead to the dagger free throw.

[moongaze]

The block was as much game saving as Kyrie's shot was game winning. Iggy scores, the momentum is with GSW and massive pressure on the Cavs to score, take the lead, and get stops.

LeBron was wide open? Are you blind or did you just not watch the game. I'm just gonna assume the latter.


Without Love and Kyrie, LeBron carried the Cavs to 2 wins against the Warriors. They were actually up 2-1 against a 67 win team. Maybe LeBron needs to take a vacation so that you guys can realize the kind of impact LeBron has on teams.

In '15, when LeBron missed 8 straight games, the Cavs went 1-7. :oldlol:

No it wasn't. It was a great block but to say it was game saving you have to have knowledge that the cavs wouldn't have scored had iggy made the layup and you also have to have knowledge that he would have even made that tough layup. Since we don't have that knowledge, it can't be called a game saving block. you might need to get your eyes checked if you can't see that Lebron was wide open when Irving passed him the ball. So open that it took a foul from draymond green to stop him from dunking. That entire play was set up by Kyrie, but in typical Lebron fan fashion Lebron gets the credit for that entire sequence.

They were up 2-1 then proceeded to get blown out three straight games. Lebron also shot under 40 percent for the season. Im from Ohio and im a cavs fan but Lebron fans make it so hard to like him at times. Even Lebron, with his shitty ego , is unlikeable times.

[aj1987]

No it wasn't. It was a great block but to say it was game saving you have to have knowledge that the cavs wouldn't have scored had iggy made the layup and you also have to have knowledge that he would have even made that tough layup. Since we don't have that knowledge, it can't be called a game saving block. Since we don't have that knowledge, it can't be called a game saving block. you might need to get your eyes checked if you can't see that Lebron was wide open when Irving passed him the ball. So open that it took a foul from draymond green to stop him from dunking. That entire play was set up by Kyrie, but in typical Lebron fan fashion Lebron gets the credit for that entire sequence.
How the heck was he missing that layup, if LeBron hadn't blocked it? :biggums:

How was the LeBron dunk attempt "wide open", when Green was right there at rim, waiting for a penetrating player? If he was "wide open", LeBron would've dunked it. Do you even the meaning of the phrase "wide open"?

Again, since you seem to be a bit slow:

The block was as much game saving as Kyrie's shot was game winning.

So, Kyrie's 3 was Finals winning, when there was a minute left to play, but LeBron's wasn't game saving, because there was a minute left to play? How does that even make sense?

As I said, you haven't watched the game and it's pretty obvious. Not just that, but you don't even understand basketball. I'll try one last time If LeBron doesn't block Iggy's layup, the Warriors are up 2 with around a minute left to play with all the momentum of a fast break on their home court. For anyone who understands even a tiny bit of basketball, it's pretty easy easy to understand how much of an important play that was.


They were up 2-1 then proceeded to get blown out three straight games.

One of my earlier posts. I'll just repost it here.

LeBron was purposefully slowing down the pace. You don't win against the Warriors (with a garbage ass team no less) playing run and gun ball. They're gonna out shoot you and destroy you. The Cavs would've lost in 4 straight blowouts if they played uptempo basketball.

He couldn't hand over the playmaking duties to others nor was he able to let others make decisions, because they're low IQ players. Shump and JR were terrible and can't create for others. Delly had a hard time bringing the ball up court. Actually, Shump is a below average playmaker, but the other two are worse than garbage.

The game in which Mozgov put up 28 points, the Cavs lost by 21 points. LeBron struggled shooting the ball, but he did have 20/12/8. 12 rebounds and 8 assists (oh wait, rebounds and assists only matter when it's Bird). Delly went 3-14, JR 2-12, Shump 2-9, JJ 0-3, etc.. A combined 18% FG%. Literally no one could hit a shot. To top it off, the Warriors went small and Moz couldn't guard anyone on the court. Bogut was benched and Green was playing at the C.

You're blaming LeBron for Moz not getting more involved in game 5 after the 28 point game, when in fact, the COACH played him 9 minutes. He played over 30 minutes in game 6 and LeBron got him involved. Dude put up 17/12/4.

For the series, the 3 guys who played the 3rd, 4th, and 5th highest minutes managed to score a combined 25.5 points on sub 40% TS. 29% FG% and 28% 3pt%.

The Cavs were missing their 2nd and 3rd best players. Take Pau and Odom out and the Lakers get absolutely massacred in the '09 and '10 Finals. LeBron still managed to drag the team to 2 wins.


Lebron also shot under 40 percent for the season.
Never in his career has LeBron shot under 40%. Heck, his lowest was 42% and that was in his rookie year. Outside that, LeBron has never shot under 47% in ANY season of his career. To put that in perspective, Kobe has NEVER shot OVER 47% in his career. Ever.


Im from Ohio and im a cavs fan but Lebron fans make it so hard to like him at times. Even Lebron, with his shitty ego , is unlikeable times.
:roll: :roll:

You're a sad pathetic troll with a couple of dozen alts, warriorfag. You can lie and pretend to be what you're not, but it's clearly obviously how much of a sad life you live.

Now run and logon to one of your alts, you sad little person.

[TommyGriffin]

So moongaze is supposedly warriorfan too now? It looks like anyone who disagrees with your viewpoint all of a sudden turns into warriorfan. :rolleyes:

[moongaze]

How was he missing that layup? For one, jr altered the shot and forced a double pump. It wasn't exactly the easiest or clearest shot. I didn't say his dunk attempt was wide open, I said he was wide open when Kyrie dropped the ball off to him. So open that he was able to drive in for an attempt at a dunk. A person can be open and have defenders close in on them to foul them. If he wasn't as open as he was draymond wouldn't have needed to resort to a desperation foul. You need to pay attention to where Lebron was when he caught the pass from Kyrie and where the closest defender to him was then go get your eyes checked.

Again, in order to claim that it was a game saving block you have to have evidence that they wouldn't have been able to score again had the block not happened. You don't have such evidence so you need to let that baseless statement go.

You need to sharpen your comprehension sjills cause I'm getting tired of having to clarify myself multiple times. At no.point in time did I say it wasn't game saving just because there was a minute left they would have had multiple opportunities to score, which they did.



Sure, if iggy makes the layup it would have been tougher on the cavs but you're making the assumption that they would have lost if he made the layup by calling the block a game saver. You're basically trying to create your own outcome here to suit your psychic claims.

Are you that dumb that you can't see I meant to say that he shot 40 percent for the series? Well, yes you are.

Lol at me being a sad troll when you type essay responses including multiple quotes all the while posting childish attempts at insults. You need to calm down. No one thinks you're a tough guy cause you act stupid online

[CTbasketball92]

It's funny, having LeBron leave any team can be so, so damaging. Maybe more damaging than any other player. The thing is, Lebron is so versatile that he makes you forget to get talented wings, another really good scorer and other solid role players, because he fills the roles so well. Without LeBron, the Cavs' wings are average at best in starting roles, prob. a bit below for a good team.

[aj1987]

How was he missing that layup? For one, jr altered the shot and forced a double pump. It wasn't exactly the easiest or clearest shot.
Your memory is messed up. You might want to watch that play again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIZqOTIbWDg&spfreload=10

That ball was like 2 inches away from the backboard, which would've resulted in a goal tend as well. He was not missing that layup, if LeBron doesn't block it.



I didn't say his dunk attempt was wide open, I said he was wide open when Kyrie dropped the ball off to him. So open that he was able to drive in for an attempt at a dunk. A person can be open and have defenders close in on them to foul them. If he wasn't as open as he was draymond wouldn't have needed to resort to a desperation foul. You need to pay attention to where Lebron was when he caught the pass from Kyrie and where the closest defender to him was then go get your eyes checked.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsoL2cR0_ag&spfreload=10

You might want to watch that play again. Green was perfectly positioned to block the shot and Curry was right there to help Green (he didn't).

Irving did find LeBron, but LeBron MADE the FT, which clinched the game and the series.


Again, in order to claim that it was a game saving block you have to have evidence that they wouldn't have been able to score again had the block not happened. You don't have such evidence so you need to let that baseless statement go.
Are you on crack or can you just not read? I'll just repost.

As I said, you haven't watched the game and it's pretty obvious. Not just that, but you don't even understand basketball. I'll try one last time If LeBron doesn't block Iggy's layup, the Warriors are up 2 with around a minute left to play with all the momentum of a fast break on their home court. For anyone who understands even a tiny bit of basketball, it's pretty easy easy to understand how much of an important play that was.



You need to sharpen your comprehension sjills cause I'm getting tired of having to clarify myself multiple times. At no.point in time did I say it wasn't game saving just because there was a minute left they would have had multiple opportunities to score, which they did.
You think the block wasn't game saving because there was over a minute left, but Kyrie's shot was, when were was a minute left? :facepalm


Sure, if iggy makes the layup it would have been tougher on the cavs but you're making the assumption that they would have lost if he made the layup by calling the block a game saver. You're basically trying to create your own outcome here to suit your psychic claims.
Anyone who actually watched basketball knows how much of a momentum changer a fast break on your home court can be. If you do not understand that simple concept, then we're pretty much done here. I really can't explain it a casual.


Are you that dumb that you can't see I meant to say that he shot 40 percent for the series? Well, yes you are.


Lebron also shot under 40 percent for the season.

And you call me dumb, you shit eating retard. :roll:


Im a sad retarded troll
Whatever you say, you sad pathetic little person.

[Hey Yo]

More hypotheticals and assumptions that aren't rooted in reality.
So you say Kyrie saved James with 56 seconds left....but if he misses the 3PA and James gets the board and the put back which proved to be the winner....does that mean he saved Kyrie's ass for taking an ill-advised contested 3 with the score tied with a minute left????

[moongaze]

Your memory is messed up. You might want to watch that play again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIZqOTIbWDg&spfreload=10

That ball was like 2 inches away from the backboard, which would've resulted in a goal tend as well. He was not missing that layup, if LeBron doesn't block it.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsoL2cR0_ag&spfreload=10

You might want to watch that play again. Green was perfectly positioned to block the shot and Curry was right there to help Green (he didn't).

Irving did find LeBron, but LeBron MADE the FT, which clinched the game and the series.


Are you on crack or can you just not read? I'll just repost.

As I said, you haven't watched the game and it's pretty obvious. Not just that, but you don't even understand basketball. I'll try one last time If LeBron doesn't block Iggy's layup, the Warriors are up 2 with around a minute left to play with all the momentum of a fast break on their home court. For anyone who understands even a tiny bit of basketball, it's pretty easy easy to understand how much of an important play that was.



You think the block wasn't game saving because there was over a minute left, but Kyrie's shot was, when were was a minute left? :facepalm


Anyone who actually watched basketball knows how much of a momentum changer a fast break on your home court can be. If you do not understand that simple concept, then we're pretty much done here. I really can't explain it a casual.





And you call me dumb, you shit eating retard. :roll:


Whatever you say, you sad pathetic little person.


:oldlol: how are you this dumb? Look I got things to do but I'll definitely reply to this garbage later.

Edit:. Look at the play again, dumbass. Lebrons defender, iggy, wasn't even looking at Lebron. He had his eyes on Kyrie, who drew the attention of the warriors. Again, since you apparently have below standard comprehension, I said at the time he received the pass, he was open. His defender was out of the play. He had an open lane to attempt a dunk.

I understand basketball. The problem is you dot seem to understand English. In order to say something was saving you'd have to have knowledge that the cavs would have lost without the block. Assumptions are not knowledge. It wasn't a game saving block, retard. Oh, wow. He made one out of 2 free throws after getting a pass that caused the defense to immediately foul him

[Hey Yo]

this .. it's just a wild ass assumption in the first place though.. yea kyrie misses, bron was just going to waltz in and get a game winning put back..

look at the play



http://i.giphy.com/zdwVbFBMQM0qQ.gif


bron doesnt even attempt to go after a potential rebound .. he's sitting in the corner watching. K-Love was the only one who crashed.

bran fam resorting to just tossing aside reality and make up an alternate one where kyrie misses and bron makes something instead.. :lol
I didn't imply that James would have automatically got the offensive rebound if Kyrie missed the 3PA.

I was reversing the situation to see if I got an answer....all I got was deflection.

[aj1987]

:oldlol: how are you this dumb? Look I got things to do but I'll definitely reply to this garbage later.
Doesn't know the difference between a series and a season and calls other dumb. :roll:

Run along, troll.

[moongaze]

I didn't imply that James would have automatically got the offensive rebound if Kyrie missed the 3PA.

I was reversing the situation to see if I got an answer....all I got was deflection.

I'm not even sure what the point of your statement is. It has nothing to do with what happened.

[moongaze]

Doesn't know the difference between a series and a season and calls other dumb. :roll:

Run along, troll.

Has never mistyped something in his life and isn't smart enough to recognize a typo and understand what the person meant to say

[34-24 Footwork]

Moongaze....

The people youre arguing with were calling for Kyrie to be traded about 6months ago. He was a "defenseless ball hog" that needed to be on the trade block for chris paul.

Fast forward to the playoffs/finals...

He locks down the 2x MVP and scored on him at will.

Points in the playoffs for Lebron- 552
Points in the playoffs for Kyrie- 530 (while taking shots that required a higher level of skill)


These people cannot be reasoned with.

Just ignore them or troll them.

[aj1987]

Has never mistyped something in his life and isn't smart enough to recognize a typo and understand what the person meant to say
Lets look at it, shall we? You said LeBron's block wasn't game saving because there was over a minute left. Yet, you called Irving's shot game saving, even though there was a minute left and the scores were literally tied at that point.

With all that drivel coming out of you, it's actually kinda hard to tell whether you've made a mistake or not.

BTW, 2 posts ago, you called me out on the mistake YOU made. Wow, and here I was thinking that you trolls couldn't get any dumber.


Moongaze....

The people youre arguing with were calling for Kyrie to be traded about 6months ago. He was a "defenseless ball hog" that needed to be on the trade block for chris paul.
I never said that Irving needs to be traded.


Fast forward to the playoffs/finals...

He locks down the 2x MVP and scored on him at will.
The most important stop on Curry? Love was the one who did it.

https://s21.postimg.org/fuxg3ndmf/Screen_Shot_2016_09_06_at_6_54_58_AM.png

If you can't understand that, let me help you. Kyrie's defensive cover averaged 48.4% with other defenders and 56.4% with Kyrie covering him. This was on 14 FGA's a game.

BTW, you still haven't found the post of mine, which said Kobe was never doubled with Shaq.