We know MJ was the better scorer and Pippen was the better defender but...

[You Cant Ban Me]

Who was the better rebounder?

Who was the better passer?

dont tell me pippen was better than mj @ everything outside of scoring :biggums:

[LostCause]

There's this thing called nuance and context that's missed on you Dray and Klay so I don't know if its worth it or not seriously responding here

Let's just say both Jordan and Pippen did what was ideal for their team to be as successful as they were. We saw what both could do when the other either wasn't there or had a lesser impact on the team overall, so that should answer your question

[NumberSix]

Jordan was a better defender than Pippen. Jordan was the best at everything and he never missed a shot.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan was the better defender. Per Johnny Bach. Scottie was more versatile. Michael was clearly the better passer. Rebounding edge goes to Scottie. As it should given his 2 to 3 extra inches (hah)

[guy]

Unless we want to get really specific, there's literally nothing Pippen was inarguably better then Jordan at, including defense.

[Ramza]

Damn bro, you're STILL defending Jordan's manhood?
https://media.giphy.com/media/l4Ki2obCyAQS5WhFe/giphy.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

Damn bro, you're STILL defending Jordan's manhood?
I was self deprecating ... know this concept would go over your head.

You pot faced, inbred moron.

Go collect your chump change disability check and log off ISH (your life) for awhile bruh.

[feyki]

Pippen was better rebounder .

Jordan was better passer until first retirement . Pippen was better passer after return of Jordan .

[SamuraiSWISH]

http://i62.tinypic.com/2ch2lc6.jpg

[SamuraiSWISH]

No ... I just quickly Google searched loser + stalkerforlife ... and it was the first pic that appeared. I'm sure I could've used descriptors like ugly and it would've appeared just as quick though.

[Ramza]

No ... I just quickly Google searched loser + stalkerforlife ... and it was the first pic that appeared. I'm sure I could've used descriptors like ugly and it would've appeared just as quick though.
https://media.giphy.com/media/zx93xxfdNDIwo/giphy.gif

[You Cant Ban Me]

I was self deprecating ... know this concept would go over your head.

You pot faced, inbred moron.

Go collect your chump change disability check and log off ISH (your life) for awhile bruh.
Little harsh, brody

[iamgine]

Even if MJ wasn't better than Pippen at anything other than scoring, he's still more impactful because he's vastly better in scoring and close in others.

Put it this way, if a guy can do nothing but he block 40 shots a game, he'd still be MVP and rightly so. It's about impact, not how many things you can do.

[BedroomBully]

I was self deprecating ... know this concept would go over your head.

You pot faced, inbred moron.

Go collect your chump change disability check and log off ISH (your life) for awhile bruh.
Lmao lol

[Smoke117]

You'd have to be an idiot or jordan stan to think MJ was a better passer/playmaker than Pippen. The biggest ball hog ever was a better passer than a 6'7" natural PG? Because that's what Pippen was...it's just too bad he never got to fully explore this till he was well past his prime (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeozk-VXm6M) since the triangle has no real pg. I'll tell you this...nobody wants MJ running their offense over Scottie Pippen.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Career season high assists

'89 Jordan - 8 apg
'92 Pippen - 7 apg

That's with the biggest score first mentality of all time. Not a natural facilitator.

[Smoke117]

Career season high assists

'89 Jordan - 8 apg
'92 Pippen - 7 apg

That's with the biggest score first mentality of all time. Not a natural facilitator.

Comparing a season where the offense was "do whatever the **** you want MJ" to Pippen in the triangle...that's genius. :rolleyes:

[LostCause]

Jordan was the better defender. Per Johnny Bach. Scottie was more versatile. Michael was clearly the better passer. Rebounding edge goes to Scottie. As it should given his 2 to 3 extra inches (hah)

Jordan was the more tenacious defender and if you needed someone to get you a stop or deny someone the ball, Jordan was your guy (See Isaiah Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Reggie Miller especially who was completley shut out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPlPNDXkIYk)). Pippen was definitely more versatile and like a Ray Lewis-type leader on the defensive end. Barking/yelling orders and directing people, even Jordan many times.

They were about equally good at reading the offense. I'd say Pippen is a better team defender than Jordan as well, which comes back to the versatility point

(The Miller/Jordan video, I'd like to say that it's clearly uploaded by someone with an agenda but anyone who remembers this game can remember the switch and how it sealed the win for Chicago. That said, in prior games Reggie was baiting Jordan through countless screens and running him ragged, but it goes to show that when the stakes are highest Jordan usually rose his game along with it. At both ends)

As far as passing goes, I'd say its a wash. Jordan is probably the more creative passer, but Scottie is obviously the more willing one (and the better teammate unless you were a masochist or Charles Oakley). You would've had to "convince" Jordan to direct the offense to get everyone else involved but Scottie was more willing to do so at the expense of his own scoring. The Bulls did try Jordan at PG which is where he averaged 8apg and had his record triple double streak. The convincing wasn't as difficult by that point because he grew tired of his teammates coming up short so he took it as a challenge himself to get it done. He was looked at as one of the top point guards in the league for the relatively small stint he had at the position (Little over a month).

[I]

[SamuraiSWISH]

Comparing a season where the offense was "do whatever the **** you want MJ" to Pippen in the triangle...that's genius. :rolleyes:
Actually it was only like the final 17 or so games they did that offensively with a ball dominant PG Jordan.

By the time the triangle arrived, especially late 90s ... Jordan's exclusive niche was go to scorer and play finisher. Pulling his own game back allowing Pippen room to grow, and initiate the offense. There was no PG in the triangle. Let's not act like Pippen was a SF sized playmaking point guard, with great handle and amazing passing such as LeBron or Magic.

Pippen had more free reign ala MJ's '89 in 1994 and he put up 6 apg. That was his actual peak as a player too.

If Scottie was a more natural facilitator, more willing and better passer than Jordan ... At some point he would have eclipsed Jordan's season personal high of assists. But he didn't.

The reality is even as the most alpha dog, finisher and score first player in history ... Mike was an underrated passer, and yes was superior at it compared to Pippen. Probably due to all the second layers of defensive attention paid to him due to his threat to score.

[Smoke117]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
Comparing a season where the offense was "do whatever the **** you want MJ" to Pippen in the triangle...that's genius.
Actually it was only like the final 17 or so games they did that offensively with a ball dominant PG Jordan.

By the time the triangle arrived, especially late 90s ... Jordan's exclusive niche was go to scorer and play finisher. Pulling his own game back allowing Pippen room to grow, and initiate the offense. There was no PG in the triangle. Let's not act like Pippen was a SF sized playmaking point guard, with great handle and amazing passing such as LeBron or Magic.

Pippen had more free reign ala MJ's '89 in 1994 and he put up 6 apg. That was his actual peak as a player too.

If Scottie was a more natural facilitator, more willing and better passer than Jordan ... At some point he would have eclipsed Jordan's season personal high of assists. But he didn't.

The reality is even as the most alpha dog, finisher and score first player in history ... Mike was an underrated passer, and yes was superior at it compared to Pippen. Probably due to all the second layers of defensive attention paid to him due to his threat to score.

What are you ****ing blind? The triangle doesn't have a ball dominant pg...how exactly would he have eclipsed MJ's total in that offense? He could easily have averaged 8+ apg in a more traditional offense...he averaged 6apg running the Blazers offense at 36. This is without even mentioning the fact that the triangle offense is also generally a slow down offense. You got guys like Drexler who averaged 8apg and Pippen is definitely a better passer than him...BUT the Blazers ran and ran which gives you a chance to put up numbers. (pace of 104.4 compared to Bulls 94.4 in 92) If Drexler could put up 8apg in a up tempo offense...just think what Pippen could have done.

Pippen is underrated in general for the fact that he never even got to fully explore his game because of the triangle and playing with Jordan. He's a top 10 open court player ever (basically a one man fast break) who played in a slow down offense the entirety of his prime. For all that though...as much as you all say he can't score...he raised his fg% and efficiency WITHOUT JORDAN IN 94 and was 8th in scoring playing in an offense not suited for his game...I'd say that's pretty good. He also never got to use his very good post game much because the offense revolved around throwing it into Jordan in the mid post...no other star has ever had to sacrifice their game for the team more than Scottie Pippen did.

[DaHeezy]

What are you ****ing blind? The triangle doesn't have a ball dominant pg...how exactly would he have eclipsed MJ's total in that offense? He could easily have averaged 8+ apg in a more traditional offense...he averaged 6apg running the Blazers offense at 36. This is without even mentioning the fact that the triangle offense is also generally a slow down offense. You got guys like Drexler who averaged 8apg and Pippen is definitely a better passer than him...BUT the Blazers ran and ran which gives you a chance to put up numbers. (pace of 104.4 compared to Bulls 94.4 in 92) If Drexler could put up 8apg in a up tempo offense...just think what Pippen could have done.
Ownage :applause:

[LostCause]

he raised his fg% and efficiency WITHOUT JORDAN

But his most efficient seasons came while he played alongside Jordan, whether its FG% or TS% you use. 90/91 being his most efficient, and in the lone full season he played in Chicago without Jordan while his scoring average increased, he scored more points in 3 other seasons (With Jordan). The average is only higher because he played in less games (About 8-10). Even though, the scoring "average" difference was a whopping 1 point from his previous career high in 92

So while it's true he raised his FG/Efficiency from the season prior, it's a disingenuous point because other seasons he played with Jordan were more efficient

Unless you're referring to PER, but that seems an odd stat to use since it's expected to raise as he become the lead dog


no other star has ever had to sacrifice their game for the team more than Scottie Pippen did.

I'd say K-Love or Chris Bosh could debate this

At the end of the day you can speculate whether Scottie would've done this or that in different circumstances but it's just that....speculation. In comparison to someone like Love, we saw what he could do outside of Cleveland and there was a world of difference, so it's not speculation as to the extent his game has sacrificed for the good of the team.

[Da_Realist]

no other star has ever had to sacrifice their game for the team more than Scottie Pippen did.

That's not true. Scottie didn't sacrifice anything. He played exactly the way he wanted to play. That was his game. He was much more comfortable playing in Chicago than he was in Houston or Portland. That's because the Triangle worked for him just as much as he worked the Triangle. The Triangle was the perfect offense to showcase Scottie's game -- much more than an offense that focused heavily on pick-n-rolls, drive-n-kicks or one that forced him to direct the offense a la Magic Johnson.

[You Cant Ban Me]

[QUOTE=LostCause]Jordan was the more tenacious defender and if you needed someone to get you a stop or deny someone the ball, Jordan was your guy (See Isaiah Thomas, Penny Hardaway, Reggie Miller especially who was completley shut out (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPlPNDXkIYk)). Pippen was definitely more versatile and like a Ray Lewis-type leader on the defensive end. Barking/yelling orders and directing people, even Jordan many times.

They were about equally good at reading the offense. I'd say Pippen is a better team defender than Jordan as well, which comes back to the versatility point

(The Miller/Jordan video, I'd like to say that it's clearly uploaded by someone with an agenda but anyone who remembers this game can remember the switch and how it sealed the win for Chicago. That said, in prior games Reggie was baiting Jordan through countless screens and running him ragged, but it goes to show that when the stakes are highest Jordan usually rose his game along with it. At both ends)

As far as passing goes, I'd say its a wash. Jordan is probably the more creative passer, but Scottie is obviously the more willing one (and the better teammate unless you were a masochist or Charles Oakley). You would've had to "convince" Jordan to direct the offense to get everyone else involved but Scottie was more willing to do so at the expense of his own scoring. The Bulls did try Jordan at PG which is where he averaged 8apg and had his record triple double streak. The convincing wasn't as difficult by that point because he grew tired of his teammates coming up short so he took it as a challenge himself to get it done. He was looked at as one of the top point guards in the league for the relatively small stint he had at the position (Little over a month).

[I]