2011 D.Rose Would Be The 3rd or 4th Best PG Now

[CTbasketball92]

1. Curry
2. Westbrook/CP3
3. CP3/Westbrook
4. 2011 D.Rose.

Who disagrees, and why?

[KiiiiNG]

2011 Rose
Current Kyrie
Current Paul
Current Westbrook
Current Curry


In that order

[Bankaii]

Why is DRose so disrespected on this site?
Dude led his team to 62 wins and the only thing that stopped from hetting to the Finals was a prime Lebron. And I honestly think the Bulls could've defeated the Mavs in the Finals.

He would be in argument for the 2nd best PG in the league behind Curry.
His impact is greater than Westbrooks. And CP3 is getting older.

1) Curry
2) CP3/Westbrook/Rose
5) Lillard

[Bankaii]

2011 Rose
Current Kyrie
Current Paul
Current Westbrook
Current Curry


In that order
This is just a terrible post.

[CTbasketball92]

Here's my thing:

CP3 would've taken the bulls to the same point D.Rose did. He's been in the west, but second round there equals roughly conference finals in the east, and for all the talk about CP3 being out of his prime, I rarely ever see evidence of him legitimately being worse than he was in say, 2012. Maybe worse than '09 CP3, but I'd say it's close between him and 2011 rose.

Curry has been so dominant, no, rose isnt better. not nearly as good a scorer. Westbrook has more sustained dominance than Rose, though i like that rose is a bit more in control.

[Bankaii]

Here's my thing:

CP3 would've taken the bulls to the same point D.Rose did. He's been in the west, but second round there equals roughly conference finals in the east, and for all the talk about CP3 being out of his prime, I rarely ever see evidence of him legitimately being worse than he was in say, 2012. Maybe worse than '09 CP3, but I'd say it's close between him and 2011 rose.

Curry has been so dominant, no, rose isnt better. not nearly as good a scorer. Westbrook has more sustained dominance than Rose, though i like that rose is a bit more in control.
What? Just this year the Cavs faced at worst equal competition to the Warriors through the 1st 2 rounds. The 2 East teams actually had a better record.

It also should be mentioned that CP3 led teams have usually been in the 3-6 seed, so he's obviously going to face harder teams to get there.

And 2011 Rose doesn't let 2015 happen like CP3 did.

[AintNoSunshine]

Too bad he didn't last long. Was exciting to watch, equally athletic as Westbrook but less reckless.

[Clifton]

1. Curry
2. Westbrook/CP3
3. CP3/Westbrook
4. 2011 D.Rose.

Who disagrees, and why?
I agree with you.

Rose was considered barely top-10 when he won MVP, IIRC. Same with Steve Nash.

Winning MVP doesn't mean you're the best. It's a complex of accomplishments, team and individual, that decide the MVP.

If I had to choose between 2011 Rose and Curry, Westbrook, and Paul of today, I would not choose Rose over any of them - but it'd be close. Especially with Paul, who is slower now and who doesn't seem to be able to bring out the best in Griffin.

[CTbasketball92]

What? Just this year the Cavs faced at worst equal competition to the Warriors through the 1st 2 rounds. The 2 East teams actually had a better record.

It also should be mentioned that CP3 led teams have usually been in the 3-6 seed, so he's obviously going to face harder teams to get there.

And 2011 Rose doesn't let 2015 happen like CP3 did.

Did you look at CP3's stats from that series?

Literally any clippers team from the last four years would've made it to the eastern conference finals fairly easily. Toronto isn't as good as their series agaost the cavs suggested, i never thought the cavs would lose. Same would be true for the clippers, but CP3 is going to fry any eastern conference defense easily. Hawks are a joke, celtics don't have a true, truuee star.

[poido123]

So glad we got rid of that volume chucker hack.


Wherever he goes, he always seems to have something bad just around the corner...

[Pointguard]

CP3 would've taken the bulls to the same point D.Rose did. He's been in the west, but second round there equals roughly conference finals in the east, and for all the talk about CP3 being out of his prime, I rarely ever see evidence of him legitimately being worse than he was in say, 2012. Maybe worse than '09 CP3, but I'd say it's close between him and 2011 rose.


Curry has been so dominant, no, rose isnt better. not nearly as good a scorer. Westbrook has more sustained dominance than Rose, though i like that rose is a bit more in control.

A couple of critical points for you.

At the point guard position if a PG has

1)Great Finishers
2)Great Athletic players
3)Solid Shooters/Space makers
4)High level Creators
5)High Scorers
6)Offensive Superstar
7)Championship coach

He's in a great position, a near max for a PG to thrive in.

CP3 had them all about three times. Rose had one of these elements that year with a lot of injuries and a young team. If you are in doubt, the comparison should go to the guy who had the best record in the league when his team wasn't built for a PG but his team thrived anyway.

Rose also dominated the elite teams out West as well that year (the East as well). Not one of the guys mentioned outside of Rose seems capable of carrying a young team despite plenty of more opportunities. Lastly, Thibes suffered greatly with offensive schemes: That team could not break a trap in the playoffs. Which is something that other teams would have found out much quicker with Curry, Westbrook and CP3.

[SamuraiSWISH]

What?

Rose of 2015 and 2016 locked Kyrie up every time he faced him. Only PG I've seen do it too. Westbrook gets torched by Irving. Not Derrick. He's the only one I've seen neutralize him.

The Bulls game I went to this year, Rose was slicing Curry and the Warriors up getting to the rim for buckets, pull up mid range, or nice tear drop floaters.

That's with a Derrick visibly conserving himself at the expense of his team to save himself for a new contract. A mentally fragile Derrick after TWO catastrophic knee injuries.

Then we roll 2011 Derrick out there? Basically a more controlled, athletic, skilled, FEARLESS and less emotional version of Westbrook? Does he get the 2016 teammates or the injured Noah / Boozer and Luol Deng ones?

2011 D Rose is better than all of them. Shame he got cut down so early in his career.

Even 2016 Curry isn't putting up 25 ppg and 7 apg on a slow paced, grind it out Bulls team ... Without dynamic players such as Klay, Draymond, and Iggy playing a long side him.

Rose was hooping against prime LeBron / Wade / Bosh with Keith Bogans, Luol Deng, Kyle Korver and sometimes Boozer by his side.

Meanwhile Curry just shit the bed with a 73 win team playing along his side against slightly past prime LeBron and Kyrie.

:oldlol:

Getting to the basket and destroying a team from the inside - out will always be more devastating and indefensible than relying on the longest shot on the court in gimmicky fashion to win.

2016 Cavaliers proved this fact.

[TommyGriffin]

What?

Rose of 2015 and 2016 locked Kyrie up every time he faced him. Only PG I've seen do it too. Westbrook gets torched by Irving. Not Derrick. He's the only one I've seen neutralize him.

The Bulls game I went to this year, Rose was slicing Curry and the Warriors up getting to the rim for buckets, pull up mid range, or nice tear drop floaters.

That's with a Derrick visibly conserving himself at the expense of his team to save himself for a new contract. A mentally fragile Derrick after TWO catastrophic knee injuries.

Then we roll 2011 Derrick out there? Basically a more controlled, athletic, skilled, FEARLESS and less emotional version of Westbrook? Does he get the 2016 teammates or the injured Noah / Boozer and Luol Deng ones?

2011 D Rose is better than all of them. Shame he got cut down so early in his career.

Even 2016 Curry isn't putting up 25 ppg and 7 apg on a slow paced, grind it out Bulls team ... Without dynamic players such as Klay, Draymond, and Iggy playing a long side him.

Rose was hooping against prime LeBron / Wade / Bosh with Keith Bogans, Luol Deng, Kyle Korver and sometimes Boozer by his side.

Meanwhile Curry just shit the bed with a 73 win team playing along his side against slightly past prime LeBron and Kyrie.

:oldlol:

Getting to the basket and destroying a team from the inside - out will always be more devastating and indefensible than relying on the longest shot on the court in gimmicky fashion to win.

2016 Cavaliers proved this fact.
Thanks Coach.

[Pointguard]

What?

Rose of 2015 and 2016 locked Kyrie up every time he faced him. Only PG I've seen do it too. Westbrook gets torched by Irving. Not Derrick. He's the only one I've seen neutralize him.

The Bulls game I went to this year, Rose was slicing Curry and the Warriors up getting to the rim for buckets, pull up mid range, or nice tear drop floaters.

That's with a Derrick visibly conserving himself at the expense of his team to save himself for a new contract. A mentally fragile Derrick after TWO catastrophic knee injuries.

Then we roll 2011 Derrick out there? Basically a more controlled, athletic, skilled, FEARLESS and less emotional version of Westbrook? Does he get the 2016 teammates or the injured Noah / Boozer and Luol Deng ones?

2011 D Rose is better than all of them. Shame he got cut down so early in his career.

Even 2016 Curry isn't putting up 25 ppg and 7 apg on a slow paced, grind it out Bulls team ... Without dynamic players such as Klay, Draymond, and Iggy playing a long side him.

Rose was hooping against prime LeBron / Wade / Bosh with Keith Bogans, Luol Deng, Kyle Korver and sometimes Boozer by his side.

Meanwhile Curry just shit the bed with a 73 win team playing along his side against slightly past prime LeBron and Kyrie.

:oldlol:

Getting to the basket and destroying a team from the inside - out will always be more devastating and indefensible than relying on the longest shot on the court in gimmicky fashion to win.

2016 Cavaliers proved this fact.

Good points.

Rose outplayed them all in the last two years and rarely gets outplayed by them ever.

[Jameerthefear]

A couple of critical points for you.

At the point guard position if a PG has

1)Great Finishers
2)Great Athletic players
3)Solid Shooters/Space makers
4)High level Creators
5)High Scorers
6)Offensive Superstar
7)Championship coach

He's in a great position, a near max for a PG to thrive in.

CP3 had them all about three times. Rose had one of these elements that year with a lot of injuries and a young team. If you are in doubt, the comparison should go to the guy who had the best record in the league when his team wasn't built for a PG but his team thrived anyway.

Rose also dominated the elite teams out West as well that year (the East as well). Not one of the guys mentioned outside of Rose seems capable of carrying a young team despite plenty of more opportunities. Lastly, Thibes suffered greatly with offensive schemes: That team could not break a trap in the playoffs. Which is something that other teams would have found out much quicker with Curry, Westbrook and CP3.
lmao

[CuterThanRubio]

What?

Rose of 2015 and 2016 locked Kyrie up every time he faced him. Only PG I've seen do it too. Westbrook gets torched by Irving. Not Derrick. He's the only one I've seen neutralize him.

The Bulls game I went to this year, Rose was slicing Curry and the Warriors up getting to the rim for buckets, pull up mid range, or nice tear drop floaters.

That's with a Derrick visibly conserving himself at the expense of his team to save himself for a new contract. A mentally fragile Derrick after TWO catastrophic knee injuries.

Then we roll 2011 Derrick out there? Basically a more controlled, athletic, skilled, FEARLESS and less emotional version of Westbrook? Does he get the 2016 teammates or the injured Noah / Boozer and Luol Deng ones?

2011 D Rose is better than all of them. Shame he got cut down so early in his career.

Even 2016 Curry isn't putting up 25 ppg and 7 apg on a slow paced, grind it out Bulls team ... Without dynamic players such as Klay, Draymond, and Iggy playing a long side him.

Rose was hooping against prime LeBron / Wade / Bosh with Keith Bogans, Luol Deng, Kyle Korver and sometimes Boozer by his side.

Meanwhile Curry just shit the bed with a 73 win team playing along his side against slightly past prime LeBron and Kyrie.

:oldlol:

Getting to the basket and destroying a team from the inside - out will always be more devastating and indefensible than relying on the longest shot on the court in gimmicky fashion to win.

2016 Cavaliers proved this fact.

GSW does not rely on the longest shot on the court in a "gimmicky fashion", their strategy is responsible for a championship, back to back finals appearances, 73-9, and some of the most efficient offenses ever constructed.

Gambling has its risks, you will lose if you go cold at the wrong time, but expecting to bulldoze your way into the lane and create separation via pure athleticism is equally risky, especially for a guard.

If Rose had a jumper he probably would have been able to push Miami to the limit, it was too easy for them to lock him up, you aren't going to drive on LeBron and his shot selection is horrible so if he can't blow by its going to be struggle central.


+Simply because he excels in particular matchups doesn't automatically make him better than the players he bested.

Rose benefited from a great defensive system in a conference that featured little firepower, his offensive abilities were not the main reason for their success.

I would argue that Westbrook is better than he ever was, Kyrie and Curry as well.

He had a great year but lets keep it all the way real, he may have posted the worst percentages for an MVP in the modern era.

His impact on the game was minimal as well, Bulls fans are the greatest exaggerators in sports, so desperate for their next Jordan that they were bound to overhype any superstar they ended up with, Jimmy Butler is receiving the same treatment right now

[Pointguard]

lmao
:lol It wasn't rhetorical. Which opens the door for you to refute it with a fact. But you're you.

[Bankaii]

What?

Rose of 2015 and 2016 locked Kyrie up every time he faced him. Only PG I've seen do it too. Westbrook gets torched by Irving. Not Derrick. He's the only one I've seen neutralize him.

The Bulls game I went to this year, Rose was slicing Curry and the Warriors up getting to the rim for buckets, pull up mid range, or nice tear drop floaters.

That's with a Derrick visibly conserving himself at the expense of his team to save himself for a new contract. A mentally fragile Derrick after TWO catastrophic knee injuries.

Then we roll 2011 Derrick out there? Basically a more controlled, athletic, skilled, FEARLESS and less emotional version of Westbrook? Does he get the 2016 teammates or the injured Noah / Boozer and Luol Deng ones?

2011 D Rose is better than all of them. Shame he got cut down so early in his career.

Even 2016 Curry isn't putting up 25 ppg and 7 apg on a slow paced, grind it out Bulls team ... Without dynamic players such as Klay, Draymond, and Iggy playing a long side him.

Rose was hooping against prime LeBron / Wade / Bosh with Keith Bogans, Luol Deng, Kyle Korver and sometimes Boozer by his side.

Meanwhile Curry just shit the bed with a 73 win team playing along his side against slightly past prime LeBron and Kyrie.

:oldlol:

Getting to the basket and destroying a team from the inside - out will always be more devastating and indefensible than relying on the longest shot on the court in gimmicky fashion to win.

2016 Cavaliers proved this fact.
:applause:

Agree completely, except Westbrook is more athletic and Im still not sure Rose is the best player of the bunch. Otherwise, great post.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Good points.

Rose outplayed them all in the last two years and rarely gets outplayed by them ever.
Well even post knee injuries Rose always murks the elites at his position. He gets up for those games. He butchered Westbrook last year too. Just as he was doing CP3 in 2011 and 2012. The problem with post injury Rose is consistency and his poor body language IE not caring against every other PG in the league.

[SamuraiSWISH]

:applause:

Agree completely, except Westbrook is more athletic and Im still not sure Rose is the best player of the bunch. Otherwise, great post.
He's not. Rose was way quicker off the bounce. End to end. Especially vertical and leaping ability. Body control, etc was all visibly in Derrick advantage before injury. Westbrook is explosive but Derrick was definitely more athletic. Westbrook more durable.

[Jameerthefear]

:lol It wasn't rhetorical. Which opens the door for you to refute it with a fact. But you're you.
the fact that you think cp3 hasn't carried a young team before is hilarious

[RRR3]

Forgot how overrated Rose was. Dude might be a rapist to boot.


Hope he isn't. But he's not making himself look good.

[Devin Booker]

D Rose getting disrespected, he would be top 3, I would say behind Curry but on the same tier as Paul and Westbrook, think Westbrook but with more control, that was Rose.

[CTbasketball92]

D Rose getting disrespected, he would be top 3, I would say behind Curry but on the same tier as Paul and Westbrook, think Westbrook but with more control, that was Rose.

I mean yeah, sounds right to me. Rose, third or fourth, prob. tied with curry and cp3. I don't think rose could impact the game in all ways while having a bad shooting game like Westgod could, though. Westgod literally beasted GSW while shooting like 40% from the field.

[Pointguard]

the fact that you think cp3 hasn't carried a young team before is hilarious
When??? '08 and '09??? Those weren't young teams. Did you think they were young teams? He wasn't carrying the Clippers because he always had two guys who either scored more than him or equal to him and guys who were leading the league in different categories. And Blake never developed into the player he should have been as well.

[GrapeApe]

Personally I always felt pre-injury Rose was overrated. In 2011 he only had a 23.5 PER, which is quite low for an MVP winner. He shot under 45% from the field (and under 40% in the playoffs). He was a below average 3 point shooter and his assist to turnover ratio was extremely pedestrian for a PG. He was a solid but not great defender, and he only averaged 1 spg. That's one of the lowest steal averages in history for an MVP-winning guard. He wasn't nearly as disruptive as you'd expect a player with his athleticism to be.

Don't get me wrong, he was a good player, but he was never a first tier superstar. In his MVP season he wasn't even the top guard in his conference.

[Pointguard]

If Rose had a jumper he probably would have been able to push Miami to the limit, it was too easy for them to lock him up, you aren't going to drive on LeBron and his shot selection is horrible so if he can't blow by its going to be struggle central.
I just named seven things critical for a point guard to have to compete against better defenses: Spacing, shooting, good offensive coaching, finishers, athleticism, scorers, super talent and co-creators. If you think Rose having a jump shot will compensate for all of that you are admitting he's vastly superior than all of those players easily.



+Simply because he excels in particular matchups doesn't automatically make him better than the players he bested.

Rose benefited from a great defensive system Curry doesn't benefit from a great defensive system. And the best offensive system this side of Magic Johnson??? a likely 60 win team without him?
in a conference that featured little firepower, his offensive abilities were not the main reason for their success.


Chicago dominated the elite in the West as well. They flipped more 4th quarter wins than any other team that year (it was over 20). They killed the other 8 elite teams in the 4th quarter. Their conference had the top 5 defensive teams in the league that year. The Celtics had the same DRTG as Chicago did and they were a veteran team. Miami was a top defensive team with the best two guard offensively, the best SF offensively, and Bosh was the most prolific scoring PF the previous season. Miami was easily the most talented team and the fastest defensive team in the playoffs that year. But Rose is expected to impact like Wade and Lebron together with a slower, inexperienced team that couldn't break a trap in the playoffs.


I would argue that Westbrook is better than he ever was, Kyrie and Curry as well.
EXCEPT for when you actually see them play side by side while Rose is suffering from double vision right?


He had a great year but lets keep it all the way real, he may have posted the worst percentages for an MVP in the modern era.
Percentages are definitely inferior to aggression in great players. I don't mean to be categorical here but why not?


His impact on the game was minimal as well, Bulls fans are the greatest exaggerators in sports, so desperate for their next Jordan that they were bound to overhype any superstar they ended up with, Jimmy Butler is receiving the same treatment right now
The Bulls had the best record in the league, dominated the elite, were young and suffered a lot of injuries despite their being super teams, veteran teams, champions, super talented teams, and had a rookie coach that spent only 20 minutes on offensive sets. Look at how bad Lebron, Wade, Dirk, CP3, DH, and Kobe did when they just got acclimated to new teams much less key injuries. lack of co-creators... . Rose dominated the elite at his position.

What more was Rose suppose to do. Have the best record ever? Shut out the elite at his position? He lead all PGs in block shots so I guess he was suppose to lead the league right. He was top three in rebounding at his position, so he should have been the leader there as well. Deng should have gotten hurt too that year. Its at this level of silliness at this point.

[Pointguard]

Personally I always felt pre-injury Rose was overrated. In 2011 he only had a 23.5 PER, which is quite low for an MVP winner. He shot under 45% from the field (and under 40% in the playoffs). He was a below average 3 point shooter and his assist to turnover ratio was extremely pedestrian for a PG. He was a solid but not great defender, and he only averaged 1 spg. That's one of the lowest steal averages in history for an MVP-winning guard. He wasn't nearly as disruptive as you'd expect a player with his athleticism to be.

Don't get me wrong, he was a good player, but he was never a first tier superstar. In his MVP season he wasn't even the top guard in his conference.
Most people were saying Howard was the runner up that year and the best player in the game that year. Atlanta totally neutralized Howard in the playoffs. Rose totally killed Atlanta in the playoffs.

To question the MVP is a bit silly. He did far more, with more difficulties, and more responsibilities than any other player. He played the elite better than any other player, he played the 4th quarter better than any other player, he lead his team better than any other player after the Allstar break. When it matter most and against the best he was quite a bit better than the next guy. The way the coach played a slow, grinding game wasn't best for a super athletic PG's numbers, but Rose did more with the least than any other player.

[Jameerthefear]

Personally I always felt pre-injury Rose was overrated. In 2011 he only had a 23.5 PER, which is quite low for an MVP winner. He shot under 45% from the field (and under 40% in the playoffs). He was a below average 3 point shooter and his assist to turnover ratio was extremely pedestrian for a PG. He was a solid but not great defender, and he only averaged 1 spg. That's one of the lowest steal averages in history for an MVP-winning guard. He wasn't nearly as disruptive as you'd expect a player with his athleticism to be.

Don't get me wrong, he was a good player, but he was never a first tier superstar. In his MVP season he wasn't even the top guard in his conference.
there were literally 5-6 guys that were better players than rose that year

[Jameerthefear]

When??? '08 and '09??? Those weren't young teams. Did you think they were young teams? He wasn't carrying the Clippers because he always had two guys who either scored more than him or equal to him and guys who were leading the league in different categories. And Blake never developed into the player he should have been as well.
Yes those Hornets teams were about as young as the bulls

[GrapeApe]

Most people were saying Howard was the runner up that year and the best player in the game that year. Atlanta totally neutralized Howard in the playoffs. Rose totally killed Atlanta in the playoffs.

To question the MVP is a bit silly. He did far more, with more difficulties, and more responsibilities than any other player. He played the elite better than any other player, he played the 4th quarter better than any other player, he lead his team better than any other player after the Allstar break. When it matter most and against the best he was quite a bit better than the next guy. The way the coach played a slow, grinding game wasn't best for a super athletic PG's numbers, but Rose did more with the least than any other player.

I don't question his MVP, and I have no issue with him winning it. Based on the modern criteria for MVP, he deserved the award. I'm speaking strictly from the standpoint of Rose as an individual player. For example, if you swapped 2011 Wade and Rose, the Bulls are better and the Heat are worse.

[NBAGOAT]

Most people were saying Howard was the runner up that year and the best player in the game that year. Atlanta totally neutralized Howard in the playoffs. Rose totally killed Atlanta in the playoffs.

To question the MVP is a bit silly. He did far more, with more difficulties, and more responsibilities than any other player. He played the elite better than any other player, he played the 4th quarter better than any other player, he lead his team better than any other player after the Allstar break. When it matter most and against the best he was quite a bit better than the next guy. The way the coach played a slow, grinding game wasn't best for a super athletic PG's numbers, but Rose did more with the least than any other player.

:biggums: you should explain yourself or change your wording. How is 27/15.5 on 63% shooting being "neutralized".

[CuterThanRubio]

I just named seven things critical for a point guard to have to compete against better defenses: Spacing, shooting, good offensive coaching, finishers, athleticism, scorers, super talent and co-creators. If you think Rose having a jump shot will compensate for all of that you are admitting he's vastly superior than all of those players easily.

Curry doesn't benefit from a great defensive system. And the best offensive system this side of Magic Johnson??? a likely 60 win team without him?


Chicago dominated the elite in the West as well. They flipped more 4th quarter wins than any other team that year (it was over 20). They killed the other 8 elite teams in the 4th quarter. Their conference had the top 5 defensive teams in the league that year. The Celtics had the same DRTG as Chicago did and they were a veteran team. Miami was a top defensive team with the best two guard offensively, the best SF offensively, and Bosh was the most prolific scoring PF the previous season. Miami was easily the most talented team and the fastest defensive team in the playoffs that year. But Rose is expected to impact like Wade and Lebron together with a slower, inexperienced team that couldn't break a trap in the playoffs.

EXCEPT for when you actually see them play side by side while Rose is suffering from double vision right?

Percentages are definitely inferior to aggression in great players. I don't mean to be categorical here but why not?

The Bulls had the best record in the league, dominated the elite, were young and suffered a lot of injuries despite their being super teams, veteran teams, champions, super talented teams, and had a rookie coach that spent only 20 minutes on offensive sets. Look at how bad Lebron, Wade, Dirk, CP3, DH, and Kobe did when they just got acclimated to new teams much less key injuries. lack of co-creators... . Rose dominated the elite at his position.

What more was Rose suppose to do. Have the best record ever? Shut out the elite at his position? He lead all PGs in block shots so I guess he was suppose to lead the league right. He was top three in rebounding at his position, so he should have been the leader there as well. Deng should have gotten hurt too that year. Its at this level of silliness at this point.

No, I'm not admitting that Rose is better than them, IF he did have a shot and never got injured he probably would be, but that isn't reality, so he is inferior to the group of players that I mentioned, even during his prime.

Curry's offense has been responsible for turning more games than Rose's, sparking playoff comebacks and putting games out of reach by the first half, I can only think of a single meaningful Rose outburst that truly decided the outcome by itself and that was against a Hawks team that was treading water.

If Rose was so good you wouldn't be in here making all of these excuses, just accept the facts

Worst MVP of the modern era, the end!

[keep-itreal]

1. Curry
2. 2011 D.Rose

people forget just how good he was during his MVP season

[Lebronxrings]

still lebrons bich

[Pointguard]

:biggums: you should explain yourself or change your wording. How is 27/15.5 on 63% shooting being "neutralized".
When Howard practically had a 50/20 game Atlanta won convincingly.
When Howard had an 8/8 game it was the only game Orlando had it's only convincing win. And Atlanta had total control of the series.

Now that's what you call neutered.

[Pointguard]

No, I'm not admitting that Rose is better than them, IF he did have a shot and never got injured he probably would be, but that isn't reality, so he is inferior to the group of players that I mentioned, even during his prime. News flash he was injured recently. ???


Curry's offense has been responsible for turning more games than Rose's, sparking playoff comebacks and putting games out of reach by the first half,

Are you well? The Warriors would be competing for the best record without Curry. When Curry didn't play in the playoffs the Warriors looked exactly the same as they did the previous year with Curry. So to say he flipped more games than Rose is a bit crazy.


I can only think of a single meaningful Rose outburst that truly decided the outcome by itself and that was against a Hawks team that was treading water. Huh, this is really weird.
Atlanta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS0Juf5gLP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u9XDmg7T64

and in the elimination game he was 19/12

Indiana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4f4c4_kHx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcDC1xrn3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowVppAb1dc


Rose was so good you wouldn't be in here making all of these excuses, just accept the facts
Actually the way I set it up is that there were no excuses for Rose. When he had the big injuries, young team, rookie coach, lack of (shooters, athletes, a great co-star, finishers), he still dominated the elite and had the best record in the league. The excuses are for Westbrook (8 years with a player better than him and a team he grew up with), CP3 (3 years with what point guards dream of) and neither did what Rose did. Curry was in obscurity when he had something close to Rose's situation.


Worst MVP of the modern era, the end!
There were seven players, Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Dirk, Dwight Howard, Mello, Cp3, all in their prime, with 2 HOFers Duncan and KG still having great years playing with championship team/coaches, Durant leading the league in scoring playing with Westbrook. Almost all of them on veteran teams, or great coaches, or with each other, or even championship teams. Rose team had way more injuries, much younger, rookie coach and had the best record. That's 11 HOFers, with at least 8 in a more likely situation to win more games than Rose. I didn't count Curry who is Rose's age so make that 12 HOFers.

So if Rose was a run away MVP you are making excuses for the 12 HOFers mentioned above.

[tpols]

the league is super stacked at point guard .. but i wouldnt have older version of chris paul who keeps getting hurt over that one version of peak healthy rose.. hell i think 2011 paul had a much better argument for that because of what he was doing in the playoffs. Westbrook and rose are probably neck and neck though.

curry is better but it is really hard to compare their situations.. rose was on a defensive team with no true second option offensively.. i have argued that forever, while curry has proven that he needs his goons to open the floor up for him. it's hard to compare players in such vastly different circumstances.

[CuterThanRubio]

News flash he was injured recently. ???

Are you well? The Warriors would be competing for the best record without Curry. When Curry didn't play in the playoffs the Warriors looked exactly the same as they did the previous year with Curry. So to say he flipped more games than Rose is a bit crazy.
Huh, this is really weird.
Atlanta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS0Juf5gLP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u9XDmg7T64

and in the elimination game he was 19/12

Indiana
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4f4c4_kHx8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVcDC1xrn3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WowVppAb1dc

Actually the way I set it up is that there were no excuses for Rose. When he had the big injuries, young team, rookie coach, lack of (shooters, athletes, a great co-star, finishers), he still dominated the elite and had the best record in the league. The excuses are for Westbrook (8 years with a player better than him and a team he grew up with), CP3 (3 years with what point guards dream of) and neither did what Rose did. Curry was in obscurity when he had something close to Rose's situation.

There were seven players, Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Dirk, Dwight Howard, Mello, Cp3, all in their prime, with 2 HOFers Duncan and KG still having great years playing with championship team/coaches, Durant leading the league in scoring playing with Westbrook. Almost all of them on veteran teams, or great coaches, or with each other, or even championship teams. Rose team had way more injuries, much younger, rookie coach and had the best record. That's 11 HOFers, with at least 8 in a more likely situation to win more games than Rose. I didn't count Curry who is Rose's age so make that 12 HOFers.

So if Rose was a run away MVP you are making excuses for the 12 HOFers mentioned above.

Ranting and raving!

We have no way of knowing that GSW would be competing for the best record without Curry, you are basing your opinion on hypothetical fantasies instead of facts!

Rose is the worst MVP of the modern era, now that is a fact!

[Big164]

Small sized Passing pgs have always sucked. The John Stockton Chris Pauls's of the world will never win u rings

1. Steph
2. Kyrie
3. Goatbrook
4. Rose
5. Cp3

[Pointguard]

I don't question his MVP, and I have no issue with him winning it. Based on the modern criteria for MVP, he deserved the award. I'm speaking strictly from the standpoint of Rose as an individual player. For example, if you swapped 2011 Wade and Rose, the Bulls are better and the Heat are worse.
I don't know about that? To say Wade would have the best record in the league when he sheds Lebron, Bosh and a team he knows very well in favor of a young new team with a ton of injuries and not constructed around him seems to deny common sense. Rose was much better at acclimating to a new situation than Wade was.

[Young X]

the league is super stacked at point guard .. but i wouldnt have older version of chris paul who keeps getting hurt over that one version of peak healthy rose.. hell i think 2011 paul had a much better argument for that because of what he was doing in the playoffs. Westbrook and rose are probably neck and neck though.2016 Paul >>>> 2011 Paul.

I don't know why people think CP3 has gotten worse. He's as good now as he's always been pretty much. And he's better than Rose.

[GrapeApe]

I don't know about that? To say Wade would have the best record in the league when he sheds Lebron, Bosh and a team he knows very well in favor of a young new team with a ton of injuries and not constructed around him seems to deny common sense. Rose was much better at acclimating to a new situation than Wade was.

That is 100% baseless. What I can say for a fact is that 2011 Wade was a better player than Rose. Wade was essentially a bigger and stronger Rose. Wade was also a better scorer, rebounder, defender, ball thief, shot blocker, more efficient, and comparable as a playmaker. From a pure ability standpoint, there was literally nothing that 2011 Rose did better than Wade.

Saying that Wade would have had similar or better success than Rose in his situation is obviously just speculation. That being said, it's a reasonable claim, especially given that Wade and Rose had a lot of similarities in terms of playing style. It seems pretty logical to suggest that a player who was similar but slightly better at nearly every aspect of the game would have more success. At the very least, comparable success.

[Smoke117]

Derrick Rose wasn't even a top 5 player that season...He'd probably be the 4th best pg now after Curry, Paul, and Westbrook.

[bluechox2]

i believe a new d rose will be unveiled to us this year, new stage for his career, that only one other nba player could be compared to...kobe bryant... lets go back to the year of the rape trial for bryant...that dude played his lights out that year and i believe rose is about to do the same...like dave chappelle says, if he was cracking under pressure avging like 6 pnts a game, all of La would have been like....that ni99a was guilty, kobe played his ass off and rose will too

[LostCause]

Atlanta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS0Juf5gLP0

1:04 of that video is just beautiful. Literally went right through the heart of the defense

We were definitely robbed of a truly special career with Rose

[Pointguard]

That is 100% baseless.
Wait, so playing with Lebron, a veteran team, a healthy team, the fastest team in the league, the most athletic team in the league, the most talented team in the league, Wade would be in a better team situation on a young, oft injured team, with nobody in the top ten of any stat, rookie coach that suffered with basic offensive sets, no dependable shooters. And you think you are so right in this stance that you call it baseless.


What I can say for a fact is that 2011 Wade was a better player than Rose. Wade was essentially a bigger and stronger Rose. Wade was also a better scorer, rebounder, defender, ball thief, shot blocker, more efficient,

LOL, so was DH. Heck so was Jimmy Butler in 2015. This board lit up saying Butler is better than Rose. Many here were saying Gasol was better too. The playoffs came, and all that silliness was put to rest. They, Gasol and Butler, pulled off one game together while Rose had pulled off four. Butler was better than Paul George of last year in every statistical aspect of the game. But by no means is Butler a better player. George is one of a very few players that could carry a team. And you see how players respond to him.



From a pure ability standpoint, there was literally nothing that 2011 Rose did better than Wade.
Rose was a better player against elite teams, better in the 4th quarter, better after the star break, better leader, penetrated better, was consistently more motivated for every game which means a lot for a young team.


Saying that Wade would have had similar or better success than Rose in his situation is obviously just speculation. That being said, it's a reasonable claim, especially given that Wade and Rose had a lot of similarities in terms of playing style. It seems pretty logical to suggest that a player who was similar but slightly better at nearly every aspect of the game would have more success. At the very least, comparable success.
That's why I mentioned adaption. Wade, like most of the other great to be HOFers, suffered in a new situation. Very few players really played well in that situation. Wade played his entire prime with very experienced players and very similar coaching. To think he would kill it with young players, new coach and his 2nd and 3rd best players losing 67 games to injury is a bit crazy. And no way do they have best record in the league because Wade played too up and down in 2011. And there was much more attention on Wade in Chicago than in Miami where he wasn't even the main focus of his team.

What model of Wade are you using to talk about his success as the leader of his team? Yeah, and I'm talking about his many veteran teams with a championship coach. He was a killer in '09 for sure. Was he fully integrated into his team that year? I say yes but its not a gimme. They won 43 games. But guess what: Wade, like every other great player, suffered when he didn't have shooters, athletes, finishers, floor spacers, co-creaters, and had a lack of offensive sets. But Wade had all of that with Lebron, only once did he approach the best record in the league. To think he was going to approach that without those key elements in Chicago is a bit crazy.

[greatest-ever]

He'd be behind Curry and Westbrook by a good margin, and also behind cp3 but by a smaller margin.

[Duncan21formvp]

2011 Rose
Current Kyrie
Current Paul
Current Westbrook
Current Curry


In that order
No

2011 Rose
Current Curry
Current Kyrie
Current Westbrook
Current Paul