Tiers in the NBA

[BigKAT]

I've seen some people discussing the word Superstar.

I'll just put these tiers here, you're encouraged to disagree and re-arrange them as you wish, you can also use different players.


Good Starters:
Ibaka, Crowder, Current Tony Parker, KAT (right now)

Borderline All Star:
Kemba Walker, Deandre Jordan, Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward

All Star level and beyond:
John Wall, Kevin Love, Draymond Green, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, James Harden, Paul George and so on.

Superstars ( The absolute peak of the league, the Mt.Rushmore of current players)

Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Steph Curry
Kawhi Leonard (Not my orignal opinion but people made me buy into it.)

[TommyGriffin]

Kyrie Irving is a superstar. Kevin Love used to be a superstar as well.

[BigKAT]

Kyrie Irving is a superstar.

Your opinion is appreciated.

Have a wonderful day.

[aj1987]

Your opinion is appreciated.

Have a wonderful day.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[FreezingTsmoove]

Look man if you can absolutely destroy a 73 win team in the finals you are a superstar

Sure Kyrie had a lackluster regular season but he was coming off a bad injury

Lets not forget years prior to that he was an all star and even an all star starter

He is a superstar

So is Lebron, KD, Curry but thats it in my opinion. Pretty weak era if you ask me but I think the league will be very strong next year

[Real Cavs Fan]

Irving isn't as good as LeBron, KD, and Curry but he is getting close. I wouldn't object if people want to label him as a superstar.

[FreezingTsmoove]

Irving isn't as good as LeBron, KD, and Curry but he is getting close. I wouldn't object if people want to label him as a superstar.

I agree all he needs is to have a great regular season this year and the superstar label will not be debatable

[NBAGOAT]

you have westbrook and paul as superstars right?

[BigKAT]

I agree all he needs is to have a great regular season this year and the superstar label will not be debatable

Kyrie is a supernova on offense.
One of the best in the league in putting the ball in the basket.

I'm just saying he's not top 5.
People are overeacting.

But yeah, no need to argue over semantics.
There's no doubt that in the next season, or perhaps the one after it, Kyrie could definetly be a top5 player in the league.

Heck, I could honestly see him nabbing an MVP in his prime.
(That dude is just 24, jesus.)

[BigKAT]

you have westbrook and paul as superstars right?

I'm not a 100% sure on WB since he was 2nd fiddle this year.
I need to see him as 1st option again.

CP3, I think so, yeah.

[Young X]

A superstar to me is basically a guy who is a legit MVP candidate type of player. So if they ended up winning an MVP you wouldn't be that surprised.

[CTbasketball92]

I've seen some people discussing the word Superstar.

I'll just put these tiers here, you're encouraged to disagree and re-arrange them as you wish, you can also use different players.


Good Starters:
Ibaka, Crowder, Current Tony Parker, KAT (right now)

Borderline All Star:
Kemba Walker, Deandre Jordan, Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward

All Star level and beyond:
John Wall, Kevin Love, Draymond Green, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, James Harden, Paul George and so on.

Superstars ( The absolute peak of the league, the Mt.Rushmore of current players)

Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Steph Curry
Kawhi Leonard (Not my orignal opinion but people made me buy into it.)

I think James Harden is a superstar. 29 and 7 w. a 60 TS%. His 2015 was amazing. I think he'll be MVP level again this year.

[CTbasketball92]

I've seen some people discussing the word Superstar.

I'll just put these tiers here, you're encouraged to disagree and re-arrange them as you wish, you can also use different players.


Good Starters:
Ibaka, Crowder, Current Tony Parker, KAT (right now)

Borderline All Star:
Kemba Walker, Deandre Jordan, Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward

All Star level and beyond:
John Wall, Kevin Love, Draymond Green, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, James Harden, Paul George and so on.

Superstars ( The absolute peak of the league, the Mt.Rushmore of current players)

Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Steph Curry
Kawhi Leonard (Not my orignal opinion but people made me buy into it.)

I just don't see Draygod being in the same class as Blake Griffin, Kyrie or Wall or PG. Dude is Lamar Odom in the perfect system. Everyone loved his game 7 performance, but he was left open on literally all of those buckets, and really, he shouldn'tve been so trash in games 4 and 6. If he were in the same class as blake griffin and matched up against such piss poor offensive power forwards or an over-exerted lebron, Blake griffin would've dominated. LMA would've had a few 40 point games against the Cavs. GSW would've definitely won if they had Paul George. Wall wouldn'tve helped much. Bottom line, Draymond is maybe an all star.

[Young X]

I just don't see Draygod being in the same class as Blake Griffin, Kyrie or Wall or PG. Dude is Lamar Odom in the perfect system. Everyone loved his game 7 performance, but he was left open on literally all of those buckets, and really, he shouldn'tve been so trash in games 4 and 6. If he were in the same class as blake griffin and matched up against such piss poor offensive power forwards or an over-exerted lebron, Blake griffin would've dominated. LMA would've had a few 40 point games against the Cavs. GSW would've definitely won if they had Paul George. Wall wouldn'tve helped much. Bottom line, Draymond is maybe an all star.This is because you're just looking at offense.

He's not a better scorer than anybody you just mentioned. We all know that.

It's what he does on defense and rebounding that makes him that good. He is the most impactful defender in the league.

His decent but limited scoring and passing are secondary to what he brings on defense.

[Tking714]

Only superstars in the NBA are

Lebron
Davis
Durant
Harden
Westbrook
Curry (the most debatable)

Then there's a drop. Irving is a notch below with Butler, Griffin, Wall, Paul, Cousins, George, Klay, Kawhi, might be missing someone.

Then there's another drop for guys like Derozan, Love, Aldridge, etc.

[Milbuck]

Harden is not a superstar :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

If there's more than 50-50 chance that you shit yourself in the playoffs, you're not a superstar. If you're a one-dimensional cancer who isn't even guaranteed to do well on that end of the floor in the postseason, you're not a superstar.

[juju151111]

Only superstars in the NBA are

Lebron
Davis
Durant
Harden
Westbrook
Curry (the most debatable)

Then there's a drop. Irving is a notch below with Butler, Griffin, Wall, Paul, Cousins, George, Klay, Kawhi, might be missing someone.

Then there's another drop for guys like Derozan, Love, Aldridge, etc.
How is Westbrook higher then kawhi

[Milbuck]

How is Westbrook higher then kawhi
By being a better player.

[bizil]

I think you have Mt. Rushmore guys (face of the league guys), superstars, All Stars, borderline All Stars, and solid starters. If the Mt. Rushmore means the top four players in the world, then that would be:

Bron
KD
Curry
Westbrook

So after the Mt.Rushmore kind of guys, u still have a tier of guys that could actually still be considered superstar level players. And over time, some of these guys could rise to Mt. Rushmore at some point in their career:

CP3
Boogie
Harden
Blake
Davis
Leonard

From here, u have guys who are clear All Star kind of guys. Some like a Melo and Wade arguably aren't superstars anymore. Other guys like Kyrie, Wall, KAT, Paul George, etc. or on the verge or could one day be superstar caliber players. But health or maturation are the things stopping them. Guys like a Lowry, Derozan, etc. will likely NEVER rise above this area.

[bobopenguin]

Only superstars in the NBA are

Lebron
Davis
Durant
Harden
Westbrook
Curry (the most debatable)

Then there's a drop. Irving is a notch below with Butler, Griffin, Wall, Paul, Cousins, George, Klay, Kawhi, might be missing someone.

Then there's another drop for guys like Derozan, Love, Aldridge, etc.

how is harden a superstar when u put curry as the most debatable superstar?
harden is just an all star.

[BigKAT]

I think you have Mt. Rushmore guys (face of the league guys), superstars, All Stars, borderline All Stars, and solid starters. If the Mt. Rushmore means the top four players in the world, then that would be:

Bron
KD
Curry
Westbrook

So after the Mt.Rushmore kind of guys, u still have a tier of guys that could actually still be considered superstar level players. And over time, some of these guys could rise to Mt. Rushmore at some point in their career:

CP3
Boogie
Harden
Blake
Davis
Leonard

From here, u have guys who are clear All Star kind of guys. Some like a Melo and Wade arguably aren't superstars anymore. Other guys like Kyrie, Wall, KAT, Paul George, etc. or on the verge or could one day be superstar caliber players. But health or maturation are the things stopping them. Guys like a Lowry, Derozan, etc. will likely NEVER rise above this area.

Yup.
That assesment makes sense to me.
I don't know about Cousins though. He proved he can put up stats, but not that he can win games. And honestly his team wasn't that bad at all this year,

Rudy Gay is solid,
Rajon Rondo wasn't bad at all
Marco Belineli and Omri Casspi are solid roleplayers with great range

Scramento was a shit show without that much of an excuse other then poor chemstry and meltdowns. So I dunno about Cousins being that high.

Other then that? Yeah, I totally agree you.

[ralph_i_el]

Don't underrate KAT! He's at least borderline All-star last season. Someone of his size, with good hands and the ability to shoot? Worth his weight in gold in this league.

:D

As a Wizards fan, I appreciate the big impact that Gortat has on the floor. He's really solid. I'd still rather have current KAT

[juju151111]

By being a better player.
He not a better player through

[Nilocon165]

He not a better player through
You fcking serious bro?

[Suguru101]

What happens is that people don't make a tier between all star level and superstar.... Which leads to players like Blake Griffin, who are franchise players but not superstars, being grouped with normal all Stars like Kyle Lowry.

There should be a tier in between called either "All-NBA", "Franchise players" or "Perennial All Stars"

That way Paul George is in a higher tier than DeMar Derozan who was an all star, but it's not the Superstar tier.

Westbrook is another player who is not a true superstar, but he's definitely an mvp candidate and a franchise player.

Only Superstars in the league right now are LeBron, a healthy Curry, and Durant.

[Prime_Shaq]

IMO superstars:
LeBron James
Stephen Curry
Kevin Durant
Russell Westbrook

[hold this L]

Superstars
Lebron, Steph, Durant, Westbrook, & Kawhi

[Tking714]

how is harden a superstar when u put curry as the most debatable superstar?
harden is just an all star.

You don't put up numbers like Harden by being just an all star; Lowry is just an all star.

Curry is most debatable because of his size and his team. There's questions on his impact when there's not as much spacing outside of the golden state system.

Whereas the other guys are athletic freaks with size and can get their stats no matter what/what era.

[Orlando Magic]

Legends:
Allen Iverson

[Annyong!]

Kyrie is a superstar.

[Nastradamus]

Yup.
That assesment makes sense to me.
I don't know about Cousins though. He proved he can put up stats, but not that he can win games. And honestly his team wasn't that bad at all this year,

Rudy Gay is solid,
Rajon Rondo wasn't bad at all
Marco Belineli and Omri Casspi are solid roleplayers with great range

Scramento was a shit show without that much of an excuse other then poor chemstry and meltdowns. So I dunno about Cousins being that high.

Other then that? Yeah, I totally agree you.

Lol, everything about that roster is terrible. Rudy Gay and Rondo are names alone.

[Orlando Magic]

Kyrie is a superstar.

And you're a warriorfan alt.

[Annyong!]

And you're a warriorfan alt.
If you have looked at our posts, I clearly am not.

[GimmeThat]

are there players who plays better than their salary? (for all the economist out there)

and for the finance and accounting folks, is it considered as colluding if one does?

surely, in my college thesis, I observed the possibilities of variances based on states in things such as living expense

then I suppose for this current subject, I could argue fits/needs in contrast to net production.

so, what type of player plays better than their salary?


I can't say I know how/where every player sees themselves in 5 years

what exactly separates confidence and cockiness? joy, or in God's eye, motive

[Smoke117]

Kawhi Leonard is not a superstar...that's ridiculous.

[Human Error]

I've seen some people discussing the word Superstar.

I'll just put these tiers here, you're encouraged to disagree and re-arrange them as you wish, you can also use different players.


Good Starters:
Ibaka, Crowder, Current Tony Parker, KAT (right now)

Borderline All Star:
Kemba Walker, Deandre Jordan, Mike Conley, Gordon Hayward

All Star level and beyond:
John Wall, Kevin Love, Draymond Green, Blake Griffin, Kyrie Irving, James Harden, Paul George and so on.

Superstars ( The absolute peak of the league, the Mt.Rushmore of current players)

Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Steph Curry
Kawhi Leonard (Not my orignal opinion but people made me buy into it.)
Kevin Love isn't better than Gordon Hayward / Deandre Jordan. :facepalm

[BigKAT]

Kevin Love isn't better than Gordon Hayward / Deandre Jordan. :facepalm

Why not?

I definetly think he is.

He is being very limited right now, in his production.
But put him in the Jazz as the Go-to-guy (Gordon's role) and I think he outperforms him. Maybe a 20/12 guy. Maybe 22/12.

And Deandre Jordan is hard to compare they are very different in style.
Kevin love obviously >>>>> Offensivly
But he can't finish around the rim nearly as well, and I wouldn't trust him as the roll guy in pick and rolls as often.

But in terms of overall achivements and ability? Yeah I got Kevin.

Give the guy some love.

Lebron is better then Kove, There. I've said it.
Can you now give some appreciation to my Ex-wolf?

[egokiller]

Kyrie is definitely a superstar. People are just scared because he's only 24. Best post season PG and it's not close. Paul, Westbrook, Curry... they are all beneath this guy in terms of playing under pressure in the post season and being able to produce. Look at his ECF and finals stats. They are sick. He just has better composure, and if he didn't have to defer to Lebron all the time, it would be even more sick. Regular season accolades mean little when discussing superstar level tier.

[VIP2000]

Kyrie is definitely a superstar. People are just scared because he's only 24. Best post season PG and it's not close. Paul, Westbrook, Curry... they are all beneath this guy in terms of playing under pressure in the post season and being able to produce. Look at his ECF and finals stats. They are sick. He just has better composure, and if he didn't have to defer to Lebron all the time, it would be even more sick. Regular season accolades mean little when discussing superstar level tier.

He stepped in the playoffs big time, but he still has yet to prove he can carry a team deep into the playoffs (or even to the playoffs for that matter).

A superstar, to me, is a MVP candidate who is pretty much guaranteed to lead a team to the playoffs, no matter how bad the supporting cast.

[KiiiiNG]

You guys seem to be having a lot of trouble with this... kinda sad

Tier 1: LeBron, Durant

Tier 2: Leonard, Westbrook, Kyrie(has to be included based off his post-season run) Harden, Curry, George

Tier 3: Butler, Klay, Griffin, Draymond, Davis, Cousins, Carmelo

Tier 3 in a half: Wall, Derozan, Lowry, Bosh, Millsap

Tier 4: Love, KAT, Gasol, Wade


Glad I could clear things up :cheers:

[egokiller]

He stepped in the playoffs big time, but he still has yet to prove he can carry a team deep into the playoffs (or even to the playoffs for that matter).

A superstar, to me, is a MVP candidate who is pretty much guaranteed to lead a team to the playoffs, no matter how bad the supporting cast.

No, he really doesn't because the current NBA doesn't fit the narrative of being someone like AI and bringing offensive scrubs to the finals. The current NBA is: if you are not on a stacked team, you are not a contender but while on the stacked team, you must demonstrate high level of play to be considered a superstar.

Kyrie
WB
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Kwahi

What do all these guys have in common? They played on the 4 most stacked teams.

Kyrie won't get the opportunity to carry a team deep into the playoffs because the teams he plays for will always have other superstars on them.

This is what the NBA has turned into, a "we know that these 2 team will meet up in the finals assuming no injury". Welcome to NBAWWE.

[BigKAT]

You guys seem to be having a lot of trouble with this... kinda sad

Tier 1: LeBron, Durant

Tier 2: Leonard, Westbrook, Kyrie(has to be included based off his post-season run) Harden, Curry, George

Tier 3: Butler, Klay, Griffin, Draymond, Davis, Cousins, Carmelo

Tier 3 in a half: Wall, Derozan, Lowry, Bosh, Millsap

Tier 4: Love, KAT, Gasol, Wade


Glad I could clear things up :cheers:

While I love the fact you ranked KAT in your tier 4,

Why the hell is Wade on tier 4 and Camelo in tier 3?
What the hell has melo done in recent years to put himself above Dwade?

[KiiiiNG]

While I love the fact you ranked KAT in your tier 4,

Why the hell is Wade on tier 4 and Camelo in tier 3?
What the hell has melo done in recent years to put himself above Dwade?
You're actually right... Melo should be in tier 3 in a half or 4. He was better than Wade last year though... can't penalize the guy for playing on a horrendous team. 22/8/4 isn't a bad stat-line

[VIP2000]

No, he really doesn't because the current NBA doesn't fit the narrative of being someone like AI and bringing offensive scrubs to the finals. The current NBA is: if you are not on a stacked team, you are not a contender but while on the stacked team, you must demonstrate high level of play to be considered a superstar.

Kyrie
WB
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Kwahi

What do all these guys have in common? They played on the 4 most stacked teams.

Kyrie won't get the opportunity to carry a team deep into the playoffs because the teams he plays for will always have other superstars on them.

This is what the NBA has turned into, a "we know that these 2 team will meet up in the finals assuming no injury". Welcome to NBAWWE.

Paul George lead his team to the playoffs with CJ friggin' Miles as his 2nd best player for most of the season. He's definitely borderline superstar status at the very least.

Kyrie has yet to do that, since the Cavs were lottery-bound before LeBron coming back. He's one of the best offensive players in the NBA, but it's debatable if he really makes his teammates better the way superstars do. Obviously, you are right that he won't have a chance to 'carry' a team to the playoffs barring an injury to LeBron and/or Love.

But you're saying he's a superstar just because he scored a lot of points in the playoffs. But so did DeMar Derozan. I don't think DeRozan would be considered a superstar if you magically plug him into the Cavs or the Warriors or the Spurs.

[CTbasketball92]

Paul George lead his team to the playoffs with CJ friggin' Miles as his 2nd best player for most of the season. He's definitely borderline superstar status at the very least.

Kyrie has yet to do that, since the Cavs were lottery-bound before LeBron coming back. He's one of the best offensive players in the NBA, but it's debatable if he really makes his teammates better the way superstars do. Obviously, you are right that he won't have a chance to 'carry' a team to the playoffs barring an injury to LeBron and/or Love.

But you're saying he's a superstar just because he scored a lot of points in the playoffs. But so did DeMar Derozan. I don't think DeRozan would be considered a superstar if you magically plug him into the Cavs or the Warriors or the Spurs.

It's not just production, it's also what someone is capable of. Derozan scored 21 points per game on 39% shooting during the playoffs and he has zero elite skills He's a solid midrange shooter, good finisher and a miserable 3 point shooter. He's also not quick enough to break down and beat an elite defense. Meanwhile, Kyrie is a very good finisher, arguable the best midrange shooter, has the best handle ever so his turnovers are very low, is a very good three point shooter off the catch or off the dribble. He just proved that he is actually impossible to guard one-on-one, and he put up 27 points a game on the league's best defense while outplaying Klay and Steph (injury, but still). It's early to actually call kyrie a superstar, but I will say this: The Cavs weren't much deeper (if at all deeper) than the thunder, so it's not like Kyrie had much, much less responsibility than KD or Westbrook, who are both unanimous top 5 players. They still couldnt score efficiently against the Warriors. Kyrie ... did. He's not a top five player, and maybe even top 10 is pushing it, but what he just did easily eclipses anything DD or other players like that have ever done. So the narrative of "every person that plays with LeBron will ..." needs to end.

[aj1987]

No, he really doesn't because the current NBA doesn't fit the narrative of being someone like AI and bringing offensive scrubs to the finals. The current NBA is: if you are not on a stacked team, you are not a contender but while on the stacked team, you must demonstrate high level of play to be considered a superstar.

Kyrie
WB
Durant
Lebron
Curry
Kwahi

What do all these guys have in common? They played on the 4 most stacked teams.

Kyrie won't get the opportunity to carry a team deep into the playoffs because the teams he plays for will always have other superstars on them.

This is what the NBA has turned into, a "we know that these 2 team will meet up in the finals assuming no injury". Welcome to NBAWWE.
Without LeBron, this Cavs team ('15 and '16) wouldn't even have made the PO's.

You just can't ignore facts, warriorfag.