Player's Views FAR GREATER than Media's View/Media's Accolades

[toprange]

Durant on Kobe:
Of course. He’s the greatest of all time. His skill is second to none. Him and [Michael Jordan] are neck and neck as far as skill. You can put in athleticism and be the best passer and strongest and quickest. But it’s about skill. I think that’s how his game is played. That’s why Kobe is the top two best ever in just having skill, footwork, shooting the three, shooting the pull up, posting up, dunking on guys and ball handling. It’s flat out skill. Him and Jordan are 1 and 1A. They’re neck and neck as far as the skills are concerned.”

Wade on Kobe:
Kobe Bryant is the greatest player of our era. The Kobe Bryants aren’t around no more. There are good young players, but there will never be another Kobe

MJ on Kobe:
Kobe's the only one to have done the work, to deserve comparison.

Bird on Kobe:
If you want to have fun, like I did with Bill Walton, play with LeBron. It would have probably been more fun to play with LeBron, but if you want to win and win and win, it's Kobe.

Pippen on Kobe:
Kobe spent as much time as anyone developing his game. It paid off, to me he ranks behind only MJ among all players in the last few decades.

etc....


Lebron is rarely mentioned as a top 3 of all time by players unless they are picking all time players by position in which case some might give him the SF starting position and unless the players work for the media

[Nilocon165]

Lebron > Kobe

Nothing anybody says will change my opinion.

[KirbyPls]

[QUOTE=toprange]Durant on Kobe:
Of course. He

[toprange]

Now post what Magic, Bird, and Oscar have said about Lebron.
You post it and can we really count what Magic has to say. He has been part of the Media for how many years now.

[Nilocon165]

You post it and can we really count what Magic has to say. He has been part of the Media for how many years now.
:facepalm

[toprange]

Now post what Magic, Bird, and Oscar have said about Lebron.
added Bird to the post

[Dragonyeuw]

Players like MJ, Bird, Wade see similarities between themselves and Kobe, either on-court on in approach to the game( scoring, cut-throat type mentality), that's why MJ gravitated towards Kobe moreso than Lebron. Oscar, Pippen, Magic are all closer to Lebron in size and skillset so those guys naturally gravitate his way.

[toprange]

Players like MJ, Bird, Wade see similarities between themselves and Kobe, either on-court on in approach to the game( scoring, cut-throat type mentality), that's why MJ gravitated towards Kobe moreso than Lebron. Oscar, Pippen, Magic are all closer to Lebron in size and skillset so those guys naturally gravitate his way.

I don't know about that. See what Pippen said recently below. SF's like Bird, Durant and PF's like Dirk gravitate to Kobe as well.

Pippen on Kobe:
To me he ranks behind only MJ among all players in the last few decades.

Dirk on Kobe:
He's our Michael Jordan for our generation.

[Annyong!]

LeBron > Kobe

[toprange]

LeBron > Kobe
Says who? Lebron is rarely mentioned as a top 3 of all time by players unless they are picking all time players by position in which case some might give him the SF starting position and unless the players work for the media

[Smoke117]

A thread made to suck off kobe...how novel. :rolleyes:

[Annyong!]

Says who? Lebron is rarely mentioned as a top 3 of all time by players unless they are picking all time players by position in which case some might give him the SF starting position and unless the players work for the media
And how many of those quotes came during the past year after Kobe announced his retirement? By mid-2000s, it was all criticism of Kobe and now it is praise. When LeBron is retiring, we'll hear all the praise then too.

[feyki]

Ish life ;

Kobe > Lebron , Kobe fans cheers

Lebron > Kobe , Lebron fans cheers

Is this even a basketball forum anymore ?

[SouBeachTalents]

4 MVP's, 3 FMVP's, superior stats > 1 MVP, 2 FMVP's, inferior stats

Facts > Opinion

[Smoke117]

Ish life ;

Kobe > Lebron , Kobe fans cheers

Lebron > Kobe , Lebron fans cheers

Is this even a basketball forum anymore ?

No. It's a playground for children.

[Dragonyeuw]

I don't know about that. See what Pippen said recently below. SF's like Bird, Durant and PF's like Dirk gravitate to Kobe as well.

Pippen on Kobe:
To me he ranks behind only MJ among all players in the last few decades.

Dirk on Kobe:
He's our Michael Jordan for our generation.


Players like MJ, Bird, Wade see similarities between themselves and Kobe, either on-court on in approach to the game( scoring, cut-throat type mentality), that's why MJ gravitated towards Kobe moreso than Lebron. Oscar, Pippen, Magic are all closer to Lebron in size and skillset so those guys naturally gravitate his way.

As shown I did list Bird. Dirk has spent his entire career in the western wars with Kobe, not surprising he picked him. They're from the same generation.

Pippen seems to sway with the wind. Before the 2011 finals he said Lebron may be the greatest player ever, before he won a title. So that would seem to contradict the comment you're quoting. Oscar also favors Lebron over MJ, and has done so for the past several years.

[G-train]

Some if not all those quotes weren't made recently.

[AirBonner]

4 MVP's, 3 FMVP's, superior stats > 1 MVP, 2 FMVP's, inferior stats

Facts > Opinion
Truth.

[RRR3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

[toprange]

4 MVP's, 3 FMVP's, superior stats > 1 MVP, 2 FMVP's, inferior stats

Facts > Opinion

You are replying with the same Media View/Media Accolades I posted about. You are basically disagreeing with me and are saying that Media's View/Media's accolades are greater than players view.

[toprange]

As shown I did list Bird. Dirk has spent his entire career in the western wars with Kobe, not surprising he picked him. They're from the same generation.

Pippen seems to sway with the wind. Before the 2011 finals he said Lebron may be the greatest player ever, before he won a title. So that would seem to contradict the comment you're quoting. Oscar also favors Lebron over MJ, and has done so for the past several years.
Maybe Pippen like many others lost some respect for Lebron after he decided to join up with Wade and Bosh.

[Dragonyeuw]

Maybe Pippen like many others lost some respect for Lebron after he decided to join up with Wade and Bosh.
Pippen made that comment after he joined the Heat. He said it after the ECFs finals against the Bulls, just before the infamous Mavs series.

[toprange]

Some if not all those quotes weren't made recently.
The quotes from Wade, Durant, MJ, Dirk, Pippen were made after lebron won 2 championships. The Media declared Lebron Top 3 when he had 2 championships.
Lebron is rarely mentioned as a top 3 of all time by players unless they are picking all time players by position in which case some might give him the SF starting position and unless the players work for the media

[AirBonner]

Basically op thinks personal opinion is greater than educated intellectual opinions. Dumbass.

[toprange]

Basically op thinks personal opinion is greater than educated intellectual opinions. Dumbass.
You are the dumbass that is saying that the Media is more educated than MJ, Durant, Wade, Dirk, Bird, etc. Players are putting Kobe way up in the rank and they rarely speak of lebron in the same breath. Yeah they will say lebron is the current best player in the league but that title comes and goes. Lebron lost alot of respect among players when he started colluding. Its a form of weakness not greatness and players know that.

[AirBonner]

You are the dumbass that is saying that the Media is more educated than MJ, Durant, Wade, Dirk, Bird, etc. Players are putting Kobe way up in the rank and they rarely speak of lebron in the same breath. Yeah they will say lebron is the current best player in the league but that title comes and goes. Lebron lost alot of respect among players when he started colluding. Its a form of weakness not greatness and players know that.
a lot of them are......do you know how smart most nba players are? Look at durant with that rick james tattoo. He is reeking of intelligence. Forged test scores being pushed through school ect.

[toprange]

a lot of them are......do you know how smart most nba players are? Look at durant with that rick james tattoo. He is reeking of intelligence. Forged test scores being pushed through school ect.
So now you have to discredit the basketball intelligence of MJ, Durant, Wade, Dirk and other nba players so that the Media's vote is all that matters. What a worthless accomplishment.

[toprange]

Hakeem on Kobe:
People always compare Kobe with Michael Jordan, and that

[SouBeachTalents]

Kobe stans continuing with the meltdowns :oldlol:

[toprange]

Kobe stans continuing with the meltdowns :oldlol:
Don't worry Lebron will always have the media. :roll:

[Annyong!]

And how many of those quotes came during the past year after Kobe announced his retirement? By mid-2000s, it was all criticism of Kobe and now it is praise. When LeBron is retiring, we'll hear all the praise then too.
OP, why did you ignore this post? You were engaging in conversation with me until this.

[SpaceJam]

Ish life ;

Kobe > Lebron , Kobe fans cheers

Lebron > Kobe , Lebron fans cheers

Is this even a basketball forum anymore ?

That's basically what it is :oldlol:

Player says Kobe > LeBron. LeBron fans disregard players opinions

Player says LeBron > Kobe. Kobe fans disregard players opinions

[toprange]

OP, why did you ignore this post? You were engaging in conversation with me until this.
Only Pippen's came during the past year. Bird's was said in 2012 after lebron's 1st champinship. Durant's and Wades' was said 2013 after lebron's second championship. MJ's has said his throughout the years.

[Dragonyeuw]

[QUOTE=toprange]Hakeem on Kobe:
People always compare Kobe with Michael Jordan, and that

[ImKobe]

Lebron > Kobe

Nothing anybody says will change my opinion.

Lebron: "Kobe Bryant is the best player in the world"

the year he had his most productive season as a player both in the RS and Playoffs.

[Dragonyeuw]

That's basically what it is :oldlol:

Player says Kobe > LeBron. LeBron fans disregard players opinions

Player says LeBron > Kobe. Kobe fans disregard players opinions

And if player picks their guy of choice, then that player's opinion is legit.

[iamgine]

Player's Views FAR GREATER than Media's View/Media's Accolades
Why is this? Don't you know many players have horrible views?

[Dragonyeuw]

Ish life ;

Kobe > Lebron , Kobe fans cheers

Lebron > Kobe , Lebron fans cheers

Is this even a basketball forum anymore ?

A great question you asked already knowing the answer.

[ImKobe]

Some if not all those quotes weren't made recently.

does it matter? They were made around the time Kobe won b2b titles

what people don't understand is the hype is always going to be huge when the player is winning titles, in a few years Lebron will be out of people's top 10 when he is no longer playing in June

Kobe in 09/10 was the MJ of our era in terms of hype and how the media sucked him off, Mark Jackson said Kobe would end up being the GOAT, lots of analysts automatically put him in top 3, even Charles Barkley, who is notorious for hating on Kobe and the Lakers, put Kobe in his top 5 all-time. Nothing much has changed only that Lebron got his titles afterwards and got the same kind of love, maybe even more now because he did win one for Cleveland.

Curry won 1 last year and didn't even win FMVP but was getting MJ comparisons during the 2015-16 season as the next potential GOAT

it's only a matter of time before Anthony Davis or KAT is going to be in the Finals, being compared to Duncan and Hakeem, it's going to happen.

[toprange]

does it matter? They were made around the time Kobe won b2b titles

what people don't understand is the hype is always going to be huge when the player is winning titles, in a few years Lebron will be out of people's top 10 when he is no longer playing in June

Kobe in 09/10 was the MJ of our era in terms of hype and how the media sucked him off, Mark Jackson said Kobe would end up being the GOAT, lots of analysts automatically put him in top 3, even Charles Barkley, who is notorious for hating on Kobe and the Lakers, put Kobe in his top 5 all-time. Nothing much has changed only that Lebron got his titles afterwards and got the same kind of love, maybe even more now because he did win one for Cleveland.

Curry won 1 last year and didn't even win FMVP but was getting MJ comparisons during the 2015-16 season as the next potential GOAT

it's only a matter of time before Anthony Davis or KAT is going to be in the Finals, being compared to Duncan and Hakeem, it's going to happen.

Thats true. But the sad thing was that even his teammates and peers like Wade, Durant, were calling kobe one of the greatest while lebron was winning championships. And you have irving now posting images of kobe and talking about mamba mentality after lebron's last championship.

[ImKobe]

Thats true. But the sad thing was that even his teammates and peers like Wade, Durant, were calling kobe one of the greatest while lebron was winning championships. And you have irving now posting images of kobe and talking about mamba mentality after lebron's last championship.

Well Kobe is an above-average NBA athlete with great skill, more people are going to be emulating his game than Lebron's because most people aren't anywhere close to as athletic as Lebron to do the things he does. Lebron's game is more based around his athletic abilities. Obviously you need to be athletic to be a superstar but how many guys are close to being 6'8 250 pounds?

we see more perimeter players like Kobe in Melo, Westbrook and Durant, there's no one else in the league that has a similar game to Lebron's. Ben Simmons might be something like Bron but he's an even worse jump shooter and not nearly as powerful.

[toprange]

Why is this? Don't you know many players have horrible views?
When the subject is about basketball who in that list has horrible views. But if you want to be delusional and take the word of the Media over Durant, Wade, MJ, Bird, Hakeem, Pippen, etc..... Then do so. But don't expect people to take you seriously

[Annyong!]

Only Pippen's came during the past year. Bird's was said in 2012 after lebron's 1st champinship. Durant's and Wades' was said 2013 after lebron's second championship. MJ's has said his throughout the years.
Wade's was November 2015.

And you are right, MJ and Bird said theirs when Kobe had 5 championships and LeBron had 1. Those tunes are changing. The timing of most of these quotes tended to be for one of these reasons:

- Bad mouthing LeBron when it was cool to do so in the early 2010s before he reached 6 straight Finals and 3 FMVPs.
- Praising Kobe because he was preparing retirement

When LeBron retires, even if he doesn't add any more to his resume, you are going to hear about how LeBron was better than Kobe and is the best player of this generation and he is #2 only to Jordan.

[toprange]

Wade's was November 2015.

And you are right, MJ and Bird said theirs when Kobe had 5 championships and LeBron had 1. Those tunes are changing. The timing of most of these quotes tended to be for one of these reasons:

- Bad mouthing LeBron when it was cool to do so in the early 2010s before he reached 6 straight Finals and 3 FMVPs.
- Praising Kobe because he was preparing retirement

When LeBron retires, even if he doesn't add any more to his resume, you are going to hear about how LeBron was better than Kobe and is the best player of this generation and he is #2 only to Jordan.

Can lebron stans be patient and wait for that day then? instead of taking the word of the Media and bringing up Media Trophies? From what we are hearing, players could care less about the Media Trophies and the Media's Lists. They put Kobe as one of the greatest ever and the only way lebron can get on the all time list is if it is listed by position

[iamgine]

When the subject is about basketball who in that list has horrible views. But if you want to be delusional and take the word of the Media over Durant, Wade, MJ, Bird, Hakeem, Pippen, etc..... Then do so. But don't expect people to take you seriously
Well for one:

Pippen on Kobe:
To me he ranks behind only MJ among all players in the last few decades.


Even most Kobe fans would disagree.

[ImKobe]

Well for one:

Pippen on Kobe:
To me he ranks behind only MJ among all players in the last few decades.


Even most Kobe fans would disagree.

no they wouldn't :wtf:

Kobe was voted player of the decade BY FAR

http://www.nba.com/alldecade/vote13/

54% of the votes went to Kobe vs 46% to Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, KG, Nash, and this was before Kobe won his 5th ring, so he's far ahead of everyone, Lebron makes a case with his 3rd ring but his 2011 choke puts him a tier below.

Lebron is a part of the new generation anyways, while Kobe was in his prime he was better than Lebron, as Lebron himself stated in 09. So Lebron is the best player after Kobe Bryant, I agree on that so far.

[LostCause]

For what it's worth, while the OP is clearly referencing an argument from authority, in this case it is not fallacious to do so, as the NBA players/coaches are credible in their expertise for... NBA basketball historically and presently. If he referenced the opinion of someone like say, Peyton Manning, then it would be fallacious, as basketball is clearly not his area of expertise

There are no degrees in basketball history to be had. Players/Coaches as students and then teachers of the game would be your best bet as an authority on it

That said, just because it's not fallacious for OP to do so, doesn't mean what those authorities have to say on the matter is correct. Still has to be proven as anything else would, and the proving thing is where the idea that Kobe> Lebron runs into trouble, regardless of who says what

[iamgine]

no they wouldn't :wtf:

Kobe was voted player of the decade BY FAR

http://www.nba.com/alldecade/vote13/

54% of the votes went to Kobe vs 46% to Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, KG, Nash, and this was before Kobe won his 5th ring, so he's far ahead of everyone, Lebron makes a case with his 3rd ring but his 2011 choke puts him a tier below.

Lebron is a part of the new generation anyways, while Kobe was in his prime he was better than Lebron, as Lebron himself stated in 09. So Lebron is the best player after Kobe Bryant, I agree on that so far.
Your opinion don't matter, you're not a player.

oh wait, you're Kobe!

[toprange]

For what it's worth, while the OP is clearly referencing an argument from authority, in this case it is not fallacious to do so, as the NBA players/coaches are credible in their expertise for... NBA basketball historically and presently. If he referenced the opinion of someone like say, Peyton Manning, then it would be fallacious, as basketball is clearly not his area of expertise

There are no degrees in basketball history to be had. Players/Coaches as students and then teachers of the game would be your best bet as an authority on it

That said, just because it's not fallacious for OP to do so, doesn't mean what those authorities have to say on the matter is correct. Still has to be proven as anything else would, and the proving thing is where the idea that Kobe> Lebron runs into trouble, regardless of who says what

Are you going to bring up the Media's Trophies? Stats? The game of basketball is not about getting the best stats. What else? Competition. Who had the hardest competition. Help? Who had multiple stars in their prime on his team.

[toprange]

This just in. Another player putting kobe as one of the best. You can chose to ignore it since he is part of the Media now but it just goes to show what players are thinking.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417861

[LostCause]

Honestly, I believe Lebron is better as his game and superior physical attributes lends itself to having larger impact on the game defensively and offensively

Kobe is the more polished scorer for sure, probably the most complete offensive player of all time, but 2 points are 2 points and while Bron's game isn't as flashy or refined, it's more efficient

Kobe's game, to me, leads to higher highs (See 81 points, 35 ppg average etc) but also lower lows. Bron's efficiency is more consistent. Defensively, Bron can have a greater impact largely due to his physical attributes before you ever get to the other things

[toprange]

Honestly, I believe Lebron is better as his game and superior physical attributes lends itself to having larger impact on the game defensively and offensively

Kobe is the more polished scorer for sure, probably the most complete offensive player of all time, but 2 points are 2 points and while Bron's game isn't as flashy or refined, it's more efficient

Kobe's game, to me, leads to higher highs (See 81 points, 35 ppg average etc) but also lower lows. Bron's efficiency is more consistent. Defensively, Bron can have a greater impact largely due to his physical attributes before you ever get to the other things

And are basketball players really playing to be a few percentages/points/rebounds/assists better than another superstar. HELL NO!!. They play to win it ALL the correct way. They do not cross the line and collude with other star players just to show that they can also win a championship.

[LostCause]

And are basketball players really playing to be a few percentages/points/rebounds/assists better than another superstar. HELL NO!!. They play to win it ALL the correct way. They do not cross the line and collude with other star players just to show that they can also win a championship.

No, but this matters and it also shows dominance. If you're inefficient that means you're pretty inconsistent by default, unless you mean to be consistently inefficient. Which just sounds bad, doesn't it?

Kobe's not THAT inefficient, but Lebron is quite a bit more efficient than Kobe and while you may say that extra rebounds or assists may be inconsequential that's not entirely true. If for whatever reason Bron's shot isn't falling he can bang the boards or set up his teammates better than Kobe could. His defensive impact would also be greater largely due to his size and athleticism being able to accomplish more on that end.

I'm not saying there's a significant gap between Kobe and Bron as pure basketball players, there isn't, but let's put it this way: If Kobe's shot isn't falling, and Lebrons isn't either, and it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, who would you rather have on your team to bring home the chip? Probably the guy who can affect the game in more ways than the other guy, and at a higher level, right?

[toprange]

No, but this matters and it also shows dominance. If you're inefficient that means you're pretty inconsistent by default, unless you mean to be consistently inefficient. Which just sounds bad, doesn't it?

Kobe's not THAT inefficient, but Lebron is quite a bit more efficient than Kobe and while you may say that extra rebounds or assists may be inconsequential that's not entirely true. If for whatever reason Bron's shot isn't falling he can bang the boards or set up his teammates better than Kobe could. His defensive impact would also be greater largely due to his size and athleticism being able to accomplish more on that end.

I'm not saying there's a significant gap between Kobe and Bron as pure basketball players, there isn't, but let's put it this way: If Kobe's shot isn't falling, and Lebrons isn't either, and it's Game 7 of the NBA Finals, who would you rather have on your team to bring home the chip? Probably the guy who can affect the game in more ways than the other guy, and at a higher level, right?
All that efficiency talk and you are putting the ball in the hands of 3/7 versus 5/7

[TommyGriffin]

Kobe is more efficient at winning championships.

[toprange]

Bumping to remind ISH who Non Media Players perfer

[Da_Realist]

Efficiency can hide a reluctance to take risky shots and passive-aggressive play. For example, a guy can shoot layups and putbacks, pass off the tough shots all stars need to make, lose the series and then avoid criticism because he was "efficient".

Efficiency can also be affected by rim protection or lack thereof.

No stat should be taken at face value without considering other variables.

[Wally450]

Kobe is more efficient at winning championships.

I know, imagine if LeBron had peak Shaq?

[Smoke117]

Efficiency can hide a reluctance to take risky shots and passive-aggressive play. For example, a guy can shoot layups and putbacks, pass off the tough shots all stars need to make, lose the series and then avoid criticism because he was "efficient".

Efficiency can also be affected by rim protection or lack thereof.

No stat should be taken at face value without considering other variables.

Then it's a good thing we have 20 years of stupid ****ing shots to fall back on.

[TommyGriffin]

I know, imagine if LeBron had peak Shaq?
Imagine if LeBron had Pau Gasol as his second best player?