Shaq reveals who the best player is since Jordan

[Klay 3D]

on First Take today:

https://s17.postimg.org/abiglmggf/confetti.jpg

[Bankaii]

I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.

[Klay 3D]

I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.
Still better than your opinion. Shaq played with both Kobe and Lebron and saw their entire careers unfold. Shaq saying Kobe takes the bias out of him since it somewhat degrades his own career. So Kobe is greater than Shaq himself, TD, and Lebron.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Pretty unbiased take considering their past, and the fact he played with LeBron when dude had arguably his best regular-season.

Penny...Wade...LeBron...Kobe. Cot damn. Shaq was surrounded with royalty.

[K Xerxes]

Shaq is an idiot. Kellerman clearly asked him 'who's the best player in the post-MJ era?' and Shaq replied with 'I have to give props to Dr J, but MJ was the best' before Kellerman had to spell it out for him. :lol

[lilteapot]

Shaq is an idiot. Kellerman clearly asked him 'who's the best player in the post-MJ era?' and Shaq replied with 'I have to give props to Dr J, but MJ was the best' before Kellerman had to spell it out for him. :lol
:lol :lol :lol

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/jjk488/SHAQ_display_image_zps650f02a2.jpg

[guy]

I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.

Plus it's not like they all agree with each other.

[LostCause]

I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.

It's not law, but it's definitely far more credible and reliable

It makes absolutely no sense to claim the average fan is as credible as players who themselves have played against/with these guys for years and dedicated most of their lives to the sport

There's a reason most coaches are former players or others who have spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating. It's like any other area of expertise. Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?

That said, I don't necessarily agree with Shaq's comments here though

[Annyong!]

Shaq is definitely bias. lol at those who say he isn't. Let's see, he won 3 with Kobe. Of course he would pick Kobe. Yes, they had issues in the past, but he also has tried overcompensating for years to look like he has matured, which would include praising Kobe at every turn.

[guy]

It's not law, but it's definitely far more credible and reliable

It makes absolutely no sense to claim the average fan is as credible as players who themselves have played against/with these guys for years and dedicated most of their lives to the sport

There's a reason most coaches are former players or others who have spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating. It's like any other area of expertise. Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?

That said, I don't necessarily agree with Shaq's comments here though

Former players/coaches' opinions are just about as widespread as your average fan's. And they are prone to biases as well. Not saying they aren't more credible as well. Just saying using other people's opinion as your argument is kinda illogical, most of the time regardless of who they are.

[Bankaii]

It's not law, but it's definitely far more credible and reliable

It makes absolutely no sense to claim the average fan is as credible as players who themselves have played against/with these guys for years and dedicated most of their lives to the sport

There's a reason most coaches are former players or others who have spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating. It's like any other area of expertise. Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?

That said, I don't necessarily agree with Shaq's comments here though
No it doesn't.
You think just because Shaq is 7 ft tall that's makes his opinion on basketball more valid than say, Ernie Johnson? Hell no.

Coach Pop hasn't played a second of NBA basketball, and I'm sure everyone with a brain would take his basketball over Shaq's.

People put way too much stock in the fact that these people played.
I guess Nick Young knows more about basketball than Jeff Can Gundy huh? Dumbasses:oldlol:

[tpols]

Bran fam takin a lot of L's recently .. former players got kobe even in the afterglow of what will be lebron's biggest achievement.. that says it all folks.

[tpols]

Still better than your opinion.

bingoo :lol

[Bankaii]

Still better than your opinion. Shaq played with both Kobe and Lebron and saw their entire careers unfold. Shaq saying Kobe takes the bias out of him since it somewhat degrades his own career. So Kobe is greater than Shaq himself, TD, and Lebron.
This is the most moronic argument I've ever seen.

Pippen played with Jordan pretty much his whole career and said Lebron is probably the GOAT. Guess we should throw all objectivity out the window and hail Lebron as GOAT because a former player said so.

[toprange]

No it doesn't.
You think just because Shaq is 7 ft tall that's makes his opinion on basketball more valid than say, Ernie Johnson? Hell no.

Coach Pop hasn't played a second of NBA basketball, and I'm sure everyone with a brain would take his basketball over Shaq's.

People put way too much stock in the fact that these people played.
I guess Nick Young knows more about basketball than Jeff Can Gundy huh? Dumbasses:oldlol:

Its not just shaq that is saying all this. Other Players including teammates and peers of lebrons puts kobe as one of the greatest. They don't put lebron as a top 3. Only the Media does and they use their Media Trophies as reasoning.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417821

[Bankaii]

Its not just shaq that is saying all this. Other Players including teammates and peers of lebrons puts kobe as one of the greatest. They don't put lebron as a top 3. Only the Media does and they use their Media Trophies as reasoning.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417821
Stop promoting your shit thread. I can do the exact same for players that called Lebron the GOAT, doesn't mean he is.

[tpols]

This is the most moronic argument I've ever seen.

Pippen played with Jordan pretty much his whole career and said Lebron is probably the GOAT. Guess we should throw all objectivity out the window and hail Lebron as GOAT because a former player said so.

players have differing opinions .. and what they say is ussually respected. Some have guys lower, higher than others but what it comes down to is they all respect what each other has to say based on their experience. You bran nerds think your opinions matter and player x is concrete over player y but really your words mean next to nothing.

[toprange]

Stop promoting your shit thread. I can do the exact same for players that called Lebron the GOAT, doesn't mean he is.

Lebron is rarely mentioned as a top 3 of all time by players unless they are picking all time players by position in which case some might give him the SF starting position and unless the players work for the media

[Dragonyeuw]

I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.

Or in other words, Shaq's opinion doesn't mirror my own, so his opinion doesn't count.

[BigKAT]

Nice to hear Shaq's take on it.

Kobe does get alot of credit, it seems as though the Wade/Bron/Melo/CP3 generation really worships him.

Great player. One of the best all time.

I still personally think Lebron ranks higher all time, but it's nice to see a player like Kobe get the appreciation he quite clearly deserves.

I have no doubt that some rookies right now are going to talk about Lebron, Durant and Curry like that in a few years.

You know what I -honestly- want to know?

What does Tim Duncan think about all this. I really wanna know his opinion, I think he'll know best, he faced Lebron and Kobe the most in the playoffs out of any all time great.

[SwayDizzle]

it's not such a surprise, it's fairly obv that kobe has been the best since mj

[Real14]

People thought diesel was gonna say lebron?:lol REAL recognize REAL.

[Dragonyeuw]

No it doesn't.
You think just because Shaq is 7 ft tall that's makes his opinion on basketball more valid than say, Ernie Johnson? Hell no.

Coach Pop hasn't played a second of NBA basketball, and I'm sure everyone with a brain would take his basketball over Shaq's.


This is his opinion on Kobe, article date February 9th 2016:

In a report by Ananth Pandian for CBS Sports, "Coach Pop" even went as far as comparing Bryant to Michael Jordan, a man widely considered by many as the greatest to ever play the game of basketball.

"It was like watching Michael [Jordan]," Popovich said. He added, "I was just watching. It was great. It was great. We made some mistakes. He took advantage of it. He's fantastic."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/kobe-bryant-news-spurs-coach-gregg-popovich-says-the-black-mamba-reminded-him-of-michael-jordan-during-saturday-night-game-157135/#L2JQYOpjUBY2I6Qz.99


What a contrast from a board with anonymous members flooding the forum with anti-Kobe rhetoric.

[Levity]

insidehoops, where if someone agress with you, theyre a motha fvckin genius with a comprehensive and respectable knowledge of the topic. but if someone disagrees with you, they have aspergers and should rot in hell

lulz

[Smoke117]

Shaq? lol. The problem with Shaq is that he basically talks down whoever he is on bad terms with and talks up whoever he is on good terms with. It's almost impossible to take what he says seriously...because his damn opinion changes with his personal feelings.

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq? lol. The problem with Shaq is that he basically talks down whoever he is on bad terms with and talks up whoever he is on good terms with. It's almost impossible to take what he says seriously...because his damn opinion changes with his personal feelings.

Some of these players sound like they have rocks in their heads.

Barkley said that his top 5 isn't changing no matter what anyone ever accomplishes from now on. You hear that and shake your head because he wasn't even trolling. This was a man openly saying something that dumb on national radio
Shaq is in the same boat. Some staggeringly insane stuff.

[toprange]

Some of these players sound like they have rocks in their heads.

Barkley said that his top 5 isn't changing no matter what anyone ever accomplishes from now on. You hear that and shake your head because he wasn't even trolling. This was a man openly saying something that dumb on national radio
Shaq is in the same boat. Some staggeringly insane stuff.

Fine. Lets not take Shaq and Barkley seriously. How about these other players. Can we take them seriously?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417821

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

This is his opinion on Kobe, article date February 9th 2016:

In a report by Ananth Pandian for CBS Sports, "Coach Pop" even went as far as comparing Bryant to Michael Jordan, a man widely considered by many as the greatest to ever play the game of basketball.

"It was like watching Michael [Jordan]," Popovich said. He added, "I was just watching. It was great. It was great. We made some mistakes. He took advantage of it. He's fantastic."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/kobe-bryant-news-spurs-coach-gregg-popovich-says-the-black-mamba-reminded-him-of-michael-jordan-during-saturday-night-game-157135/#L2JQYOpjUBY2I6Qz.99


What a contrast from a board with anonymous members flooding the board with anti-Kobe rhetoric.

lol destroyed that idiot.

People, and especially on messageboards, just refuse to give Kobe credit, or in this case benefit of the doubt. You have LeBron fans on here acting like Kobe and LeBron were equal scorers, yet those of us who watched Kobe from 2006-2007 already know better.

[TheWinningFam]

Lebron is better than Kobe
Get the f.uck over it

[Klay 3D]

This is the most moronic argument I've ever seen.

Pippen played with Jordan pretty much his whole career and said Lebron is probably the GOAT. Guess we should throw all objectivity out the window and hail Lebron as GOAT because a former player said so.
I can't believe you would compare that to this. Pippen picked Lebron to prop himself up as he played similarly...something Oscar Robertson would do too. MJ overshadowed Pippen throughout his career and to this day. He's looking for some praise...plain and simple. There is absolutely nothing for Shaq to gain by picking Kobe in basketball terms. If anything, it takes away something from Shaq's accomplishments by playing alongside the best player ever post Jordan and winning 3 in a row with him. Kobe is that great that Shaq can't even pick himself, and he's not even that humble of a dude.

[IllegalD]

[QUOTE][B]Shaquille O

[TommyGriffin]

I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.
I always find it hilarious when nerds like yourself try to argue about Derek Fisher having more impact than Kobe Bryant because of Ortg's. :lol

[aj1987]

I can't believe you would compare that to this. Pippen picked Lebron to prop himself up as he played similarly...something Oscar Robertson would do too. MJ overshadowed Pippen throughout his career and to this day. He's looking for some praise...plain and simple. There is absolutely nothing for Shaq to gain by picking Kobe in basketball terms. If anything, it takes away something from Shaq's accomplishments by playing alongside the best player ever post Jordan and winning 3 in a row with him. Kobe is that great that Shaq can't even pick himself, and he's not even that humble of a dude.
Thing is, Shaq strictly looks at ring count:

[I]

[IllegalD]

[QUOTE=aj1987]Thing is, Shaq strictly looks at ring count:

[I]

[toprange]

[QUOTE=aj1987]Thing is, Shaq strictly looks at ring count:

[I]

[Mr Feeny]

Fine. Lets not take Shaq and Barkley seriously. How about these other players. Can we take them seriously?

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417821

Which ones? Different player have diff opinions?

After the 2016 finals, many of them have lebron at top 3 minimum including Isiah who keeps talking abou tbn the 3 J's (Jordan, James and jabbar)

Rick Barry already has Lebron as the greatest ever before the title win. John Barry (his son) ha db lebron as the GOAT as early as 2013. So it depends on the players.

Some have smart opinions. Other have dumb opinions. We can think for ourselves and see for ourselves instead of simply quoting players' opinions.

[tpols]

"Jordan Like"

Shaq knew.. he was standing ten feet away while kobe buried his toughest tests in the playoffs ~ Spurs Kings Blazers.

Midrange killer, no holes in the repertoire.

Shaq knew ....

[TommyGriffin]

"Jordan Like"

Shaq knew.. he was standing ten feet away while kobe buried his toughest tests in the playoffs ~ Spurs Kings Blazers.

Midrange killer, no holes in the repertoire.

Shaq knew ....
Kobe could always be called for in the clutch. There were no excuses. There were no hot potatoes because he was scared of a 15 foot jumper. He got the job done.

[aj1987]

What a retard you are. You don't think having to play with Shaq for 7 seasons and 4 out of his 7 finals has anything to do with his playoff scoring?

That's why no one takes retards like you seriously who constantly goal-post shift and use ridiculous double-standards. So you use the fact that he played with Shaq to discredit his greatness because of how he won his first 3 rings but then refuse to acknowledge the negative side of that? (not having the same opportunities to score 40+)
We've been through this, you paint sniffing *** guzzling retard.

Kobe as a starter with Shaq in the RS: 19.9 FGA's
Kobe without Shaq in the RS: 21 FGA's
Kobe for his career in the RS: 19.5 FGA's

LeBron for his career: 19.7 FGA's

Kobe as a starter with Shaq in the PO's: 21 FGA's
Kobe without Shaq in the PO's: 22 FGA's
Kobe for his career in the PO's: 20.5 FGA's

LeBron for his career in the PO's: 20.7 FGA's

Kobe in the RS: 25 PPG 55% TS
LeBron in the RS: 27.2 PPG on 58% TS

Kobe in the PO's: 25.6 PPG on 54% TS
LeBron in the PO's: 28 PPG on 57% TS

Can you even read? Do you understand numbers?

LeBron shot 38.41% from midrange. Kobe, for his career, is at 40.20%. That would obviously imply that Kobe shot 1.8% better than LeBron. :facepalm

There's a reason at to why LeBron is a better scorer in the PO's, Finals, G7's, and elimination games.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 5
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 8
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 40
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 17
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 37
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 84
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 199
Kobe - 220

LeBron in the finals:

https://s32.postimg.org/hx7i4jk11/lbjfinals.jpg

Kobe in the Finals:

https://s31.postimg.org/sx3tdb1kr/kobefinals.jpg

Eliminaton Game Averages:

LeBron James (Team record - 10-8):

32.6 PPG 10.7 RPG 7.1 APG 1.6 SPG 1.1 BPG 3.9 TO's 46.7% FG 68.2% FT

Kobe Bryant (Team record - 8-10):

22.0 PPG 5.7 RPG 3.4 APG 1.0 SPG 0.67 BPG 41.6% FG 77.6% FT 25.9% 3pt

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png



You're one of those salt ass Wade stans whos wears up and down Wade is as good as Kobe "if it wasn't for injuries". But he wasn't. Never will be. Work ethic is a part of greatness and Wade's lack of it is the reason he couldn't remain healthy or stay at the top of his game for as long as Kobe did. Eat sh*t.
Not having a meniscus might have something to do it. Wade's peak shits on Kobe's peak and LeBron in the past 8 seasons accomplished more than Chokebe has in his entire career. Deal with it and move on, fagboy.


You're an idiot. You say you look at everything and here you are hyping up stats alone. Players don't fall for the stat padding and media trophies. And they certainly don't agree with players who buy rings via collusion just so that they can say they have rings. Which is total disrespect to players who went at winning the championship the correct and competitive way. Lebron is rarely mentioned as a top 3 of all time by players unless they are picking all time players by position in which case some might give him the SF starting position and unless the players work for the media
4 MVP's, 3 Rings, 3 FMVP's >>>> 1 (pity) MVP, 5 Rings, and 2 FMVP's.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe and Brian Shaw led the comeback vs The Blazers in 2000. There's reason why the Oop to Shaq was considered a Kobe moment just as much as Shaq's. He outplayed the best player in the league in a game 7 WCF comeback at age 21...

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe and Brian Shaw led the comeback vs The Blazers in 2000. There's reason why the Oop to Shaq was considered a Kobe moment just as much as Shaq's. He outplayed the best player in the league in a game 7 WCF comeback at age 21...

Kobe was a scrub in 2000 who averaged 15 ppg on 36% shooting when it counted. In the finals.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe was a scrub in 2000 who averaged 15 ppg on 36% shooting when it counted. In the finals.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Lp5aQq4zI

pass your bedtime Sweety. :oldlol:

[Cali Syndicate]

This is the most moronic argument I've ever seen.

Pippen played with Jordan pretty much his whole career and said Lebron is probably the GOAT. Guess we should throw all objectivity out the window and hail Lebron as GOAT because a former player said so.

Pippen said something along the lines that Lebron will have better career stats than MJ, seeing lebron will end up having a longer career. Pippen has high regards for Lebron but Pippen, like many, states MJ greater than lebron.

[IllegalD]

We've been through this, you paint sniffing *** guzzling retard.

Kobe as a starter with Shaq in the RS: 19.9 FGA's
Kobe without Shaq in the RS: 21 FGA's
Kobe for his career in the RS: 19.5 FGA's

LeBron for his career: 19.7 FGA's

Kobe as a starter with Shaq in the PO's: 21 FGA's
Kobe without Shaq in the PO's: 22 FGA's
Kobe for his career in the PO's: 20.5 FGA's

LeBron for his career in the PO's: 20.7 FGA's

Kobe in the RS: 25 PPG 55% TS
LeBron in the RS: 27.2 PPG on 58% TS

Kobe in the PO's: 25.6 PPG on 54% TS
LeBron in the PO's: 28 PPG on 57% TS

Can you even read? Do you understand numbers?

LeBron shot 38.41% from midrange. Kobe, for his career, is at 40.20%. That would obviously imply that Kobe shot 1.8% better than LeBron. :facepalm

There's a reason at to why LeBron is a better scorer in the PO's, Finals, G7's, and elimination games.

40+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 5
Kobe - 1

35+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 8
Kobe - 4

30+ point games in the Finals:

LeBron - 15
Kobe - 13

Total number of games played in the Finals:

LeBron - 40
Kobe - 37

LeBron scored more against the "powerhouse" West, while Kobe sucked balls against the "shit" East.

Oh, and this:

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png

45+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 7
Kobe - 5

40+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 17
Kobe - 13

35+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 37
Kobe - 35

30+ games in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 84
Kobe - 88

Total number of games played in the Playoffs:

LeBron - 199
Kobe - 220

LeBron in the finals:

https://s32.postimg.org/hx7i4jk11/lbjfinals.jpg

Kobe in the Finals:

https://s31.postimg.org/sx3tdb1kr/kobefinals.jpg

Eliminaton Game Averages:

LeBron James (Team record - 10-8):

32.6 PPG 10.7 RPG 7.1 APG 1.6 SPG 1.1 BPG 3.9 TO's 46.7% FG 68.2% FT

Kobe Bryant (Team record - 8-10):

22.0 PPG 5.7 RPG 3.4 APG 1.0 SPG 0.67 BPG 41.6% FG 77.6% FT 25.9% 3pt

LeBron plays better against the West than the East.

http://i65.tinypic.com/x4nlzq.png



Not having a meniscus might have something to do it. Wade's peak shits on Kobe's peak and LeBron in the past 8 seasons accomplished more than Chokebe has in his entire career. Deal with it and move on, fagboy.


4 MVP's, 3 Rings, 3 FMVP's >>>> 1 (pity) MVP, 5 Rings, and 2 FMVP's.



That's some 3ball meltdown level sh*t right there. What a salty loser this guy is! :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

Pippen said something along the lines that Lebron will have better career stats than MJ, seeing lebron will end up having a longer career. Pippen has high regards for Lebron but Pippen, like many, states MJ greater than lebron.

No. Pippen has openly said that Lebron might be better than Jordan and the greatest player of all time because "he gets others involved".

[aj1987]

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
Yep, pretty much what I expected. Now go put some ice on. That shit must hurt.

[Mr Feeny]

When Lebron was asked who the best player since Jordan was, he said Duncan.

I'm sure Duncan would give the nod to Lebron.

Those 2 have been incredible.

[tpols]

aj, feeny and bankaii

"the three stooges."

Yall should get your own show and present your opinions complete with your powerpoints and excel sheets.

:roll:

[IllegalD]

Yep, pretty much what I expected. Now go put some ice on. That shit must hurt.


You average 11 posts per day and they're all about Kobe.

Who's the butthurt one here?

You know when you get to the level of changing someones quotes you're melting down and losing the argument.

How sad/pathetic is your life right now?


:banana: :roll: :lol

[Smoke117]

aj, feeny and bankaii

"the three stooges."

Yall should get your own show and present your opinions complete with your powerpoints and excel sheets.

:roll:

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[Mr Feeny]

aj, feeny and bankaii

"the three stooges."

Yall should get your own show and present your opinions complete with your powerpoints and excel sheets.

:roll:

Why do you seem upset? :eek:

[HOoopCityJones]

You average 11 posts per day and they're all about Kobe.

:eek:

[TommyGriffin]

aj, feeny and bankaii

"the three stooges."

Yall should get your own show and present your opinions complete with your powerpoints and excel sheets.

:roll:
More like the three virgins. :roll:

[Mr Feeny]

You average 11 posts per day and they're all about Kobe.

Who's the butthurt one here?

You know when you get to the level of changing someones quotes you're melting down and losing the argument.

How sad/pathetic is your life right now?


:banana: :roll: :lol

Tbf there's nothing sadder than a Kobe stan clinging to his idol and trying to convince everyone that he's a top 10 player :lebronamazed:

How's that 1 mvp and 2 fmvps in 20 seasons going?:lol

[Mr Feeny]

More like the three virgins. :roll:

Lebron had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than Kobe had in 20 years:cry:

[aj1987]

aj, feeny and bankaii

"the three stooges."

Yall should get your own show and present your opinions complete with your powerpoints and excel sheets.

:roll:
tpols again, with the brilliant basketball insight. Stick to trolling the LeBron stans, kid.


You average 11 posts per day and they're all about Kobe.

Who's the butthurt one here?

You know when you get to the level of changing someones quotes you're melting down and losing the argument.

How sad/pathetic is your life right now?


:banana: :roll: :lol
Well, according to a 5 second Google search, my username has been in a Kobe related (most likely a LeBron/Wade thread) 4,380 times. That's about a third of my posts. You, OTOH, have 100% of your posts dedicated to LeBron.

Rent = free. Keep crying, bitch.


More like the three virgins. :roll:
Is that what you call your trio? You, tpols, and the other retard? Good to know. :cheers:

[Smoke117]

You average 11 posts per day and they're all about Kobe.

Who's the butthurt one here?

You know when you get to the level of changing someones quotes you're melting down and losing the argument.

How sad/pathetic is your life right now?


:banana: :roll: :lol

You have nearly 3000 posts and everyone is worthless...again...people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[IllegalD]

Tbf there's nothing sadder than a Kobe stan clinging to his idol and trying to convince everyone that he's a top 10 player :lebronamazed:

How's that 1 mvp and 2 fmvps in 20 seasons going?:lol


Don't have to convince anyone buddy, the all-time greats and coaches have already spoken.

:cheers: :banana: :applause:

[Mr Feeny]

Don't have to convince anyone buddy, the all-time greats and coaches have already spoken.

:cheers: :banana: :applause:

Yes they have. After the 2016 finals, almost everybody has Lebron as top 3 while Kobe is at 12th:banana:

[TommyGriffin]

Lebron had more 40 point finals games in 3 days than Kobe had in 20 years:cry:
Delonte West had more sex with LeBron's mom in one night than you will have with anyone in your entire life

[Smoke117]

Yes they have. After the 2016 finals, almost everybody has Lebron as top 3 while Kobe is at 12th:banana:

lol...no they don't. What a bunch of ****ing bran stan nonsense.

[Mr Feeny]

lol...no they don't. What a bunch of ****ing bran stan nonsense.:facepalm

Who's your top 3?

[Smoke117]

:facepalm

Who's your top 3?

Kareem
Jordan
Wilt

And my top 5 would be finished with Bird and Magic...so he's not even my top 5 either.

[aj1987]

Kareem
Jordan
Wilt

And my top 5 would be finished with Bird and Magic...so he's not even my top 5 either.
You're kidding, right?

[Mr Feeny]

Kareem
Jordan
Wilt

And my top 5 would be finished with Bird and Magic...so he's not even my top 5 either.

And that's fine. But the majority of polls do have him top 5.
Magic fwiw thinks he's top 4. And im pretty sure bird and magic wouldn't dare argue that they're ahead of him all time.

[Bankaii]

This is his opinion on Kobe, article date February 9th 2016:

In a report by Ananth Pandian for CBS Sports, "Coach Pop" even went as far as comparing Bryant to Michael Jordan, a man widely considered by many as the greatest to ever play the game of basketball.

"It was like watching Michael [Jordan]," Popovich said. He added, "I was just watching. It was great. It was great. We made some mistakes. He took advantage of it. He's fantastic."

http://www.christianpost.com/news/kobe-bryant-news-spurs-coach-gregg-popovich-says-the-black-mamba-reminded-him-of-michael-jordan-during-saturday-night-game-157135/#L2JQYOpjUBY2I6Qz.99


What a contrast from a board with anonymous members flooding the forum with anti-Kobe rhetoric.
Work on your reading comprehension bud.
I never said Pop felt one way or another. I was responding to the dumb notion that an NBA automatically has a more valid opinion that someone who has never played.
Hence why I mentioned Pop, who never played in the NBA, to counteract Shaq.

And what is your quote suppose to prove. Everyone says Kobe mirrors Jordan. That doesn't mean he anywhere near his level or better than Lebron either.


lol destroyed that idiot.

People, and especially on messageboards, just refuse to give Kobe credit, or in this case benefit of the doubt. You have LeBron fans on here acting like Kobe and LeBron were equal scorers, yet those of us who watched Kobe from 2006-2007 already know better.
You stay making subtle bitch ass jabs at me. Your flip flopping from sucking Kobe to Bron back to Kobe is pathetic.
Acting like Kobe is a better scorer because the put up great numbers in the RS of a year where EVERYONE was posting career highs is dumb.

Why doesn't Kobe have any advantage in scoring in the playoffs, where defense is tighter?

[Bankaii]

I can't believe you would compare that to this. Pippen picked Lebron to prop himself up as he played similarly...something Oscar Robertson would do too. MJ overshadowed Pippen throughout his career and to this day. He's looking for some praise...plain and simple. There is absolutely nothing for Shaq to gain by picking Kobe in basketball terms. If anything, it takes away something from Shaq's accomplishments by playing alongside the best player ever post Jordan and winning 3 in a row with him. Kobe is that great that Shaq can't even pick himself, and he's not even that humble of a dude.
Stopped reading after that. So when someone picks Kobe, they're right. But when someone picks Lebron, they have an agenda.

Ok:roll:

[SpaceJammeR]

let kobe have his shine. this is how it is with most athletes. they respect the retired ones more. once lebron is retired than he'll be ahead of kobe and top 3 and all these nba players will be saying the same about lebron.

[Bankaii]

aj, feeny and bankaii

"the three stooges."

Yall should get your own show and present your opinions complete with your powerpoints and excel sheets.

:roll:
Do you ever provide any actually intelligent input?
Seriously it's all nothing but personal attacks and senseless subjective bullshit.
You and Warriorsfan are pathetic. Dude has mentioned me like 3 times in this thread alone.

[LostCause]

No it doesn't.
You think just because Shaq is 7 ft tall that's makes his opinion on basketball more valid than say, Ernie Johnson? Hell no.

The **** is this bullshit? Did I say that?

Shaq's opinion is more credible than yours because he 1) Knows the game far better than you 2) Has played with both players in question 3) Has spent decades being involved in the game of basketball

Since you mentioned EJ, tell me his credentials to be a better source for this than Shaq. Frankly, EJ supports my point as he fits the description of someone who has been involved with the game for a very long time, but just for fun I'm curious what you come up with



Coach Pop hasn't played a second of NBA basketball, and I'm sure everyone with a brain would take his basketball over Shaq's.

I'm not interested in pursuing your strawman beyond you saying it, so to bring this back to a relevant point, how many of those people with a brain would take YOUR word over Shaq OR Pops?

I'm sure you know the answer to that, and that proves my point


I guess Nick Young knows more about basketball than Jeff Can Gundy huh? Dumbasses:oldlol:

No you retard, but they both know more about basketball than you

To anyone that's not a retard, this is what I said, in quotes:

"It makes absolutely no sense to claim the average fan is as credible as players who themselves have played against/with these guys for years and dedicated most of their lives to the sport

There's a reason most coaches are former players or others who have spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating. It's like any other area of expertise. Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?"

If your only counter to that is "lol u sed nick yung knowz more than jeff van gundy" then you're dumber than a sack of rocks, as I never said or implied that. JVG isn't an "average fan", in fact JVG is someone who "spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating". You know, the other thing I said that anyone who can actually read, would've read? Know who else fits that? Coach Pop. Know who doesn't fit that? The average fan, or in this case, you (Bankaii), who probably started watching NBA basketball 2 years ago and discusses it on a forum

While you try to make a decent response to this, answer the question I posited earlier:
Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?"

[aj1987]

Do you ever provide any actually intelligent input?
Seriously it's all nothing but personal attacks and senseless subjective bullshit.
You and Warriorsfan are pathetic. Dude has mentioned me like 3 times in this thread alone.
The funny part is, I posted straight FACTS and STATS. Not mine or someone else's opinion, but FACTS.

[TommyGriffin]

The **** is this bullshit? Did I say that?

Shaq's opinion is more credible than yours because he 1) Knows the game far better than you 2) Has played with both players in question 3) Has spent decades being involved in the game of basketball

Since you mentioned EJ, tell me his credentials to be a better source for this than Shaq. Frankly, EJ supports my point as he fits the description of someone who has been involved with the game for a very long time, but just for fun I'm curious what you come up with



I'm not interested in pursuing your strawman beyond you saying it, so to bring this back to a relevant point, how many of those people with a brain would take YOUR word over Shaq OR Pops?

I'm sure you know the answer to that, and that proves my point



No you retard, but they both know more about basketball than you

To anyone that's not a retard, this is what I said, in quotes:

"It makes absolutely no sense to claim the average fan is as credible as players who themselves have played against/with these guys for years and dedicated most of their lives to the sport

There's a reason most coaches are former players or others who have spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating. It's like any other area of expertise. Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?"

If your only counter to that is "lol u sed nick yung knowz more than jeff van gundy" then you're dumber than a sack of rocks, as I never said or implied that. JVG isn't an "average fan", in fact JVG is someone who "spent years being involved in the game beyond just spectating". You know, the other thing I said that anyone who can actually read, would've read? Know who else fits that? Coach Pop. Know who doesn't fit that? The average fan, or in this case, you (Bankaii), who probably started watching NBA basketball 2 years ago and discusses it on a forum
:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Hey Yo]

Still better than your opinion. Shaq played with both Kobe and Lebron and saw their entire careers unfold. Shaq saying Kobe takes the bias out of him since it somewhat degrades his own career. So Kobe is greater than Shaq himself, TD, and Lebron.
After Shaq was traded to Miami, how was he able to watch every game Kobe played in?

Same goes for LeBron. Shaq was his teammate for 1 season in 2009-10 season.

How could he honestly assess their careers..... while he was still playing on other teams??

[tpols]

because its funny watching you guys go into every thread where shaq or hakeem or jordan say kobe has been the best and post walls of texts and numbers acting to disprove them.. thats what they think, their opinion. Nobody gives a flying **** that you disagree and you're not doing a good job of making your cases given that this thread has turned into a sinkhole thanks to yall. Take a bow.

[Mr Feeny]

How can the above poster possible claim that Shaq undoubtedly understands basketball more than those who didn't play the game?

A lot of players are incredibly gifted and are legends but can't break it down tactically. In European soccer, Gary neville played for the most dominant English team of the past 2 decades - Manchester United. He can't distinguish between a deep lying midfielder and a box to box midfielder.

He doesn't even know the difference in the roles:sleeping that's the kind of thing that's embarassing. It's a diff sport but the analogy is there. Just because someone played,it doesn't mean he actually understands the sport better than an analytical viewer.

Zach lowe understands basketball a ALOT better than any of the legends on inside the nba. He never played. They did. And the most they can give you is "he has a wet J, Chris. They got to shoot more. They got to want it more. It ain't nothing to do with fancy x o's. It's who want it more mayn"

[TommyGriffin]

How can the above poster possible claim that Shaq undoubtedly understands basketball more than those who didn't play the game?

A lot of players are incredibly gifted and are legends but can't break it down tactically. In European soccer, Gary neville played for the most dominant English team of the past 2 decades - Manchester United. He can't distinguish between a deep lying midfielder and a box to box midfielder.

He doesn't even know the difference in the roles:sleeping that's the kind of thing that's embarassing. It's a diff sport but the analogy is there. Just because someone played,it doesn't mean he actually understands the sport better than an analytical viewer.

Zach lowe understands basketball a ALOT better than any of the legends on inside the nba. He never played. They did. And the most they can give you is "he has a wet J, Chris. They got to shoot more. They got to want it more. It ain't nothing to do with fancy x o's. It's who want it more mayn"
European soccer fan.

European soccer fan.

European soccer fan.

[Hey Yo]

because its funny watching you guys go into every thread where shaq or hakeem or jordan say kobe has been the best and post walls of texts and numbers acting to disprove them.. thats what they think, their opinion. Nobody gives a flying **** that you disagree and you're not doing a good job of making your cases given that this thread has turned into a sinkhole thanks to yall. Take a bow.
Shaq was watching taped games of LeBron and Kobe while playing for Miami, PHX, Boston to give an honest assessment?

[Mr Feeny]

European soccer fan.

European soccer fan.

European soccer fan.

European football/ soccer*

[TommyGriffin]

Shaq was watching taped games of LeBron and Kobe while playing for Miami, PHX, Boston to give an honest assessment?
Yes.

[TommyGriffin]

European football/ soccer*
Your basketball opinions make a lot more sense now. :lol

[Mr Feeny]

Yes.

Jerry West watched more. He already had Lebron higher than Kobe all time by 2009:lol

[LostCause]

How can the above poster possible claim that Shaq undoubtedly understands basketball more than those who didn't play the game?

A lot of players are incredibly gifted and are legends but can't break it down tactically. In European soccer, Gary neville played for the most dominant English team of the past 2 decades - Manchester United. He can't distinguish between a deep lying midfielder and a box to box midfielder.

He doesn't even know the difference in the roles:sleeping that's the kind of thing that's embarassing. It's a diff sport but the analogy is there. Just because someone played,it doesn't mean he actually understands the sport better than an analytical viewer.

Zach lowe understands basketball a ALOT better than any of the legends on inside the nba. He never played. They did. And the most they can give you is "he has a wet J, Chris. They got to shoot more. They got to want it more. It ain't nothing to do with fancy x o's. It's who want it more mayn"

If someone has credentials that would imply that they definitely do know the game of basketball, then they too can be considered a credible source. Zach Lowe would have these credentials, and he would be someone who's been around the game for a while. Hell, right there on his wikipedia page it says:

He is consistently regarded as one of the NBA's most knowledgable writers

His knowledge of the game is held in high regard and that's verifiable. This doesn't apply to an average fan. Which is what was being discussed, as this was the original statement:


I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum.

I never said Shaq undoubtedly knows the game better than anyone who never played. That's very similar to the strawman Bankaii used when he tried to mention Coach Pop and JVG. The comparison was made between players and the average fans on this forum. Coaches, Esteemed Sports Analysts etc are NOT average fans

[Mr Feeny]

Your basketball opinions make a lot more sense now. :lol

What do basketball opinions have to do with one's following another sport?
Your lack of logic in posts makes a lot more sense now.

[LostCause]

Oh and again, I actually don't fully agree with Shaq, I'd say Lebron is the better player.

I'm just pointing out how utterly ridiculous it is to imply the average fans opinion is as credible as a players on this subject. That wouldn't be valid in ANY setting

If you had questions about weightlifting you'd consider a weightlifters words over an "average fans". If you had questions about swimming you'd consider Phelps' words over an "average fan". If you had a health question you'd listen to a doctor over a random stranger, etc. In what setting is someone who's qualifications cannot be verified more credible than someone who can't? The idea itself is utterly ridiculous

[Mr Feeny]

If someone has credentials that would imply that they definitely do know the game of basketball, then they too can be considered a credible source. Zach Lowe would have these credentials, and he would be someone who's been around the game for a while. Hell, right there on his wikipedia page it says:

He is consistently regarded as one of the NBA's most knowledgable writers

His knowledge of the game is held in high regard and that's verifiable. This doesn't apply to an average fan. Which is what was being discussed, as this was the original statement:



I never said Shaq undoubtedly knows the game better than anyone who never played. That's very similar to the strawman Bankaii used when he tried to mention Coach Pop and JVG. The comparison was made between players and the average fans on this forum. Coaches, Esteemed Sports Analysts etc are NOT average fans

Ah. Just read that second quote.

Coaches and gm's are definitely more informed than players. So are established writers/analysts (NOT pundits or media personalities e.g Skip & Steven a Smith).

The average fan on a barely moderated forum with no newbie system wouldn't count for much. But the other forum shares the consensus with the fans on here. So do most analysts.

I have no problem accepting your point and your argument here. But in Shaq's case, I personally do think that some of the tripe he says is less sensible than the average fan.

Some of the stuff that comes out of his mouth is so asinine,you wonder if he'd be banned if he WERE a poster on here. "Dwight is not a great big man. You need to average 30 and 15 to be a great big man"
"But Shaq. ...you never averaged. ..."

I see your point though. Gm's, coaches, analysts understand the game better than 90% of people who watch basketball. Players, though, do not (IN MY PERSONAL opinion).

Some are bright which is why they can get jobs as analysts. Some are thick and are there solely because they're legends and have recognizable faces that fans want to see.

[Mr Feeny]

Oh and again, I actually don't fully agree with Shaq, I'd say Lebron is the better player.

I'm just pointing out how utterly ridiculous it is to imply the average fans opinion is as credible as a players on this subject. That wouldn't be valid in ANY setting

If you had questions about weightlifting you'd consider a weightlifters words over an "average fans". If you had questions about swimming you'd consider Phelps' words over an "average fan". If you had a health question you'd listen to a doctor over a random stranger, etc. In what setting is someone who's qualifications cannot be verified more credible than someone who can't? The idea itself is utterly ridiculous

You sound spot on but I'll point out that if you were to ask on any neutral (or even team ) moderated European forum, it would be widely accepted that players' opinions aren't and shouldn't be taken seriously.
Some of the least informed and thickest people in European football are the players. I'm talking abysmal knowledge of the game.
Lack of understanding of the offside rule, the last-man sending off rule, handball rule.
These are all RULES. Rules which we as fans should know and yet we routinely sit and watch ex players in a studio show a complete lack of knowledge of basic rules of the sport they played:rant

Try flicking the channel on when the champions league is on, and watch the half time panels. You'll want to rip your hair out. There's no way anyone as clueless as some of those pundits (who happen to be players) would make it out of a promotion system in a moderated forum.
No chance.

[Bankaii]

Lost cause I'm not about to read all that shit. I'll still to the EJ example.
Please don't tell me you honestly think Shaq knows more about basketball than Ernie. This is a perfect example of what I was proving.
Ernie doesn't need credentials. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE AN NBA PLAYER TO BE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT BASKETBALL.
I honestly would take a hardcore fan's opinion over Nick Young's.
But apparently since Nick Young plays he's automatically more intelligent in the field.:oldlol:

The funny part is, I posted straight FACTS and STATS. Not mine or someone else's opinion, but FACTS.
Apparently using objective measures such as stats to support your arguments isn't allowed. "5 rangz" "81 point" is obviously a stronger argument.

Dude is a clown.

[TommyGriffin]

Lost cause I'm not about to read all that shit. I'll still to the EJ example.
Please don't tell me you honestly think Shaq knows more about basketball than Ernie. This is a perfect example of what I was proving.
Ernie doesn't need credentials. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE AN NBA PLAYER TO BE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT BASKETBALL.
I honestly would take a hardcore fan's opinion over Nick Young's.
But apparently since Nick Young plays he's automatically more intelligent in the field.:oldlol:

Apparently using objective measures such as stats to support your arguments isn't allowed. "5 rangz" "81 point" is obviously a stronger argument.

Dude is a clown.
CRINGE.

[Dragonyeuw]

Work on your reading comprehension bud.
I never said Pop felt one way or another. I was responding to the dumb notion that an NBA automatically has a more valid opinion that someone who has never played.
Hence why I mentioned Pop, who never played in the NBA, to counteract Shaq.

And what is your quote suppose to prove. Everyone says Kobe mirrors Jordan. That doesn't mean he anywhere near his level or better than Lebron either.




My reading comprehension is fine, bud. I never said you said Pop felt one way or another. My point in posting that wasn't to say that he was comparing Kobe and Lebron. It was to say that Shaq, the guy you're basically writing off, has the same kind of high praise for Kobe that Pop does, a guy whose opinion you clearly respect. It was to show how vastly different Pop's opinion is from posters who spend their entire day tearing Kobe down post after post, thread after thread. I don't know what his opinion is on Kobe vs Lebron, and as far as I know he's never expressed it.

[Dragonyeuw]

I'm just pointing out how utterly ridiculous it is to imply the average fans opinion is as credible as a players on this subject. That wouldn't be valid in ANY setting



It wouldn't, but its a way for some posters on here to think their personal view holds as much merit on those who have played/coached at the highest level of the game.

[LostCause]

Lost cause I'm not about to read all that shit. I'll still to the EJ example.

:facepalm


Please don't tell me you honestly think Shaq knows more about basketball than Ernie. This is a perfect example of what I was proving.

So you're just saying he does to say he does, based off nothing but your own opinion? Cool


Ernie doesn't need credentials. YOU DONT HAVE TO BE AN NBA PLAYER TO BE KNOWLEDGABLE ABOUT BASKETBALL.

Never said this. I asked you for Ernie's credentials because YOU stated he is more credible than Shaq. I stated and gave reasons why Shaq is more credible than YOU and the "average fan" on this particular matter. So prove to me how and why EJ is more credible than Shaq. That's how this works (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof)



I honestly would take a hardcore fan's opinion over Nick Young's.
But apparently since Nick Young plays he's automatically more intelligent in the field.:oldlol:

Based off what would you believe the fan knows more than Nick?

Furthermore, you're saying a "hardcore fan" now, whereas the original point you made was the "average moron"

Shifting? (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts)

[TommyGriffin]

Bankaii is a stat nerd who thinks EJ is smart cause he has a staff that comes up with the "EJ's NEATO STAT OF THE NIGHT" and then reads shit off a teleprompter. :oldlol:

[Bankaii]

My reading comprehension is fine, bud. I never said you said Pop felt one way or another. My point in posting that wasn't to say that he was comparing Kobe and Lebron. It was to say that Shaq, the guy you're basically writing off, has the same kind of high praise for Kobe that Pop does, a guy whose opinion you clearly respect. It was to show how vastly different Pop's opinion is from posters who spend their entire day tearing Kobe down post after post, thread after thread. I don't know what his opinion is on Kobe vs Lebron, and as far as I know he's never expressed it.
And that's where you're wrong.
Like at my post that you quoted. NEVER did I blow off Shaq's statement or say he was wrong (even though I think he is). I never attacked Shaq's opinion or views on the matter.

My only criticism is when posters assume that because an Ex-player says something, it must be true. If you think Shaq's opinion is more valid than mine, that's fine I honestly don't care. But I don't think that players' opinions should be taken so literally just because the are physically gifted, bud.

[Bankaii]

Bankaii is a stat nerd who thinks EJ is smart cause he has a staff that comes up with the "EJ's NEATO STAT OF THE NIGHT" and then reads shit off a teleprompter. :oldlol:
Dude count the number of times you've said something about me and I straight up ignore you.
What the fk you want lapdop? Wanna play fetch, need some water, wanna go outside? Geez just stfu and go back in your cage.

[Bankaii]

:facepalm



So you're just saying he does to say he does, based off nothing but your own opinion? Cool


Never said this. I asked you for Ernie's credentials because YOU stated he is more credible than Shaq. I stated and gave reasons why Shaq is more credible than YOU and the "average fan" on this particular matter. So prove to me how and why EJ is more credible than Shaq. That's how this works (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof)




Based off what would you believe the fan knows more than Nick?

Furthermore, you're saying a "hardcore fan" now, whereas the original point you made was the "average moron"

Shifting? (http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts)
Have you seen Shaq and Ernie on various analytical topics? Heard their opinions on basketball matters?
If you have it's pretty freaking obvious Shaq doesn't know as much about current basketball than Ernie.
What Shaq's creditials? The fact the he was physically gifted and played against these players? Because that's she's a hell not enough to matter.
These players have their own biases and it affects their judgement too.

Yes or no, do you think Shaq knows more about basketball that Ernie?

[TommyGriffin]

Ernie doesn't know jack, he reads shit other people wrote off a teleprompter.

[ILLsmak]

No it doesn't.
You think just because Shaq is 7 ft tall that's makes his opinion on basketball more valid than say, Ernie Johnson? Hell no.

Coach Pop hasn't played a second of NBA basketball, and I'm sure everyone with a brain would take his basketball over Shaq's.

People put way too much stock in the fact that these people played.
I guess Nick Young knows more about basketball than Jeff Can Gundy huh? Dumbasses:oldlol:

haha so you think if someone asked which shooter you would want taking the last shot for an NBA championship that Pop would know better than Shaq?

What if someone said, who was the best rebounder, post defender, etc... in certain areas, experience matters.

C'mon @ making Pop into Van Gundy and Shaq into Nick Young. Dude isn't an all time low bball IQ guy.

However, I dunno... I do think Shaq has bias, but he's open to having an opinion. Basically there are only three choices unless I'm missing someone... (Himself which would be a dick move is omitted) Duncan, Kobe, or Bron.

-Smak

[G0ATbe]

:applause: Another day, another legend saying Kobe > everyone. But the opinions of some retard with a million alts somehow overshadows NBA legends beliefs on this shitty forum.

Kobe is the greatest of all time, get over it.

[Dragonyeuw]

And that's where you're wrong.
Like at my post that you quoted. NEVER did I blow off Shaq's statement or say he was wrong (even though I think he is). I never attacked Shaq's opinion or views on the matter.

My only criticism is when posters assume that because an Ex-player says something, it must be true. If you think Shaq's opinion is more valid than mine, that's fine I honestly don't care. But I don't think that players' opinions should be taken so literally just because the are physically gifted, bud.

Then you wasted time saying this:

"I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum."

You could have simply said that you disagreed with Shaq and called it a day. But you set the tone for the ensuing discussion by calling people who consider former player opinions in high regard as idiotic, and your comment does infer that Shaq's opinion equates to the average forum moron. Less to do with comprehension and more to do with being the first reply, the presentation and tone of your point that could have been presented in a manner which got the bolded across without being insulting. But I'm betting that had Shaq picked Lebron, you wouldn't have made that comment because then his sentiments would align with your own. But you can take this idea and apply it across the board: the opinion of someone who has spent years at the professional level is going to hold more weight than some so-called fan or enthusiast. That would be the same in any situation, not just sports. So without knowing who you are, no-one seeking a basketball opinion is going to take yours over Shaq's. Whether you care about that is irrelevant to that reality.

[Bankaii]

You typed all that and still missed the only point.
Players' opinions aren't the end all or somehow more valid just because they played. Period.
I'd take an analysts opinion over a good portion of the players'.

Quit taking my post so literally. It was obviously a hyperbole.
You still seem to be under the notion that an NBA players opinion on player comparisons > non-NBA players opinion simply due to on the court experience.
Since that's the case, there's no point in arguing I'm not going to change anything.

And FYI when with Magic or Jerry West said Lebron was GOAT level and all the Lebron stans were going crazy, I said something along the same lines as in this thread.
Don't act like you know me or my intentions, bud.

[Bankaii]

haha so you think if someone asked which shooter you would want taking the last shot for an NBA championship that Pop would know better than Shaq?

What if someone said, who was the best rebounder, post defender, etc... in certain areas, experience matters.

C'mon @ making Pop into Van Gundy and Shaq into Nick Young. Dude isn't an all time low bball IQ guy.

However, I dunno... I do think Shaq has bias, but he's open to having an opinion. Basically there are only three choices unless I'm missing someone... (Himself which would be a dick move is omitted) Duncan, Kobe, or Bron.

-Smak
That's the thing though, we aren't talking about in-game details, in which a player would obviously know more due to 1st hand experience.

On the topic of GOAT lists, or player A being better than player B, fans can observe careers, stats, etc and make a logical assumption. On top of that ex-player have a track record of having horrible talent evaluation and GOAT lists, due to their own biases.

[ILLsmak]

That's the thing though, we aren't talking about in-game details, in which a player would obviously know more due to 1st hand experience.

On the topic of GOAT lists, or player A being better than player B, fans can observe careers, stats, etc and make a logical assumption. On top of that ex-player have a track record of having horrible talent evaluation and GOAT lists, due to their own biases.

fair enough, but otoh, Shaq played almost from MJ til now. And after that, he's been working at TNT.

-Smak

[34-24 Footwork]

I missed most of this thread. Can Someone give me an update on how the typical Kobe haters reacted? Did they stay classy by accepting the MDE's opinion on Kobe Bryant? Or did they take the "Shaq/MJ dont know shit about basketball" route?

Thank you.

[Indian guy]

There are only certain things I'd value from an NBA player about a peer. Mainly how they viewed 'em mentally - their competitiveness, toughness, work ethic and so on. And maybe stuff like who they found toughest to guard. Since they actually shared the court with them, those are things I can find credible. And that's about it. In terms of judging a player's worth in vacuum, when majority of 'em have no clue about the player's actual production and are simply going off either 1) selective memory or 2) rings, I couldn't find them less credible.

Honestly, if there's one thing Open Court has taught us, it's how inept NBA players come off at evaluating other players, be it former or current. They did one episode on ranking the next 10 after the top 50 and it was a colossal embarrassment. Forget advanced stats, none of the players with the exception of Brent Barry even had a rudimentary knowledge of who was putting up what. Or what true value on the basketball court is. Majority of their analysis boiled down to "ringzz", "help" and "who was the baddest". It was a joke. Why would anyone value their opinion more over an informed NBA fan, who has likely seen more of NBA basketball on TV over the years, but is also infinitely more versed in players' statistics, both raw and advanced?

There's no comparison. Outside of a player commenting on another player's mental make-up/preparation, stuff fans are not privy too, I would take an intelligent NBA fans' opinion on basketball over a former/current player's analysis any day. We are simply using a lot more information at our disposal to come to a conclusion than the players are.

[LostCause]

Have you seen Shaq and Ernie on various analytical topics? Heard their opinions on basketball matters?
If you have it's pretty freaking obvious Shaq doesn't know as much about current basketball than Ernie.

I disagree. I've seen neither of them come off as significantly more knowledgeable than the other. Ernie has talking points that he admits are gathered from the crew, but if he's been shown clearly as more knowledgeable than Shaq then I'd like to see when this occurred. Especially pertaining to Kobe/Lebron


What Shaq's creditials? The fact the he was physically gifted and played against these players? Because that's she's a hell not enough to matter.
These players have their own biases and it affects their judgement too.

I never said Shaq was unbiased or that players/coaches don't have biases.

I don't know why you keep falling back on being tall or gifted physically , as if Shaqs near lifetime of experience playing at all levels trickles down to him simply being physically gifted and not having a high IQ when it comes to the game


Yes or no, do you think Shaq knows more about basketball that Ernie?

Between Shaq and Ernie I haven't said either way, YOU did. Both Shaq AND Ernie fit the criteria for having been involved with the game for very long times (As I said like 3 posts ago) so they both support my argument, that they would naturally be more credible than an average fan, or you

I asked for Ernie's credentials because of your strawman comparing Shaq to EJ, which was never anyone's point but just something you threw out there anyway, to which you implied EJ knows more.

Though since you're asking questions, I'll repeat the one I've asked 3x now:
Who would you be more inclined to believe if you had a question about swimming, Michael Phelps or a random fan of Michael Phelps?"

Remember, this was your original statement:
I always find it funny when idiots think past players' opinions are law.
Most of there opinions are no better than the average moron on this forum

Let's not veer too far from, or make it about other things/people than that

[Keno]

shaq's opinions on the game have known to be garbage lol. nothing new here.

[ILLsmak]

I shouldn't keep responding to this thread, so this will be my last post. I really am not even a Kobe fan, but I find myself always posting on this forum against hyperbole and trolling.

The thing about 'ringz'... you can understand why NBA players value that the most. That's what they all tried to get. That's what some of them never got close to, some of them got really close and one injury ruined it (For instance, people don't talk about the Heat in 05 much, but they were about to go to the Finals if D Wade didn't go down.)

In reality, it's probably not worth taking someone's opinion who has never won a ring (on the value of rings), because to them it's like a holy grail thing. But to people who did, or people who won multiple, they have to know how ridiculously hard it is to win multiple rings or back to back... or three peat.

That's one things the fans probably don't understand. Dudes have no idea what it's like to play 82 games, into the playoffs, and be there in the Finals... that pressure, knowing everyone is watching, and knowing your whole year of work can be lost or, worse, this could be your only chance. That's why you have to value their opinions. It is their opinion, tho... and you would think the one thing a 'smart bball fan' would have over a player is the ability to view the players opinions as well. To discount them would be pretty ridiculous.

That's even counting someone like Sir Charles who talks mad shit. You'd be doing a big disservice to yourself if you didn't listen to what he says about bball. You'd be extremely arrogant, too. Top 50 player telling you how he feels... now, you might need to view it in context, but still, I'd rather hear their opinion over a 'smart poster' all day. There are many places I can go to hear some person who thinks they are smart regurgitate some opinion online. That's another issue: more than likely, the player feels they have enough info to formulate their own opinion... which many of the 'smart fans' may not.

-Smak

[Dragonyeuw]

You typed all that and still missed the only point.
Players' opinions aren't the end all or somehow more valid just because they played. Period.
I'd take an analysts opinion over a good portion of the players'.

Quit taking my post so literally. It was obviously a hyperbole.
You still seem to be under the notion that an NBA players opinion on player comparisons > non-NBA players opinion simply due to on the court experience.
Since that's the case, there's no point in arguing I'm not going to change anything.

And FYI when with Magic or Jerry West said Lebron was GOAT level and all the Lebron stans were going crazy, I said something along the same lines as in this thread.
Don't act like you know me or my intentions, bud.

No, your first post wasnt obviously hyperbole. Nor am I acting like I know you, or care to. I'm commenting on what you said, who you are or whatever your intentions are under the surface I couldnt give 2 shits about.

If you take an analyst opinion over most players, good for you. Thats your perogative. Others may take a players view who has been through the wars and especially who played and practiced with a player for 10 years. Its why there is no definitive 'top 10' list, although usually the same name appears, because people are judging on different criteria. Shaq played with Kobe and Lebron, maybe his opinion is derived from his experience seeing each player behind the scenes, and not studying a bunch of advanced metrics or whatever else from a 5 second google. Who knows?

In general, I dont think Shaq is the best analyst just from watching him on TNT, but there are players who break the game down well. Grant Hill, Webber, Kerr before he got into executive positions and coaching. Shaqs comments should carry some weight just from playing with and against both players, whatever metrics he uses are his metrics and regardless of whether his opinion suits you. Instead of arguing the content of his comments, basing the discussion around whose opinion you personally deem more legit than others is pointless to begin with. Debate what hes saying, noone cares if you think his opinion shouldnt carry more weight than an analyst or some random forum poster.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe has MANY 35+ and 40 point games in the postseason and has played better competition as a whole ie. the western conference. Not only that, but playing with Shaq for the first half of his career obviously prevented him from accumulating more points. Somebody will post his FGA to "disprove" that, but when an offense isn't built and focused around you, like it was w/ Shaq and LeBron today, its apples and oranges.

Nobody is saying Kobe > Shaq or LeBron, at least I'm not. Its just that too many posters on here are focused on stats yet can't actually talk hoops.

Stats say LeBron is better, so lets crap on Shaq. Pathetic :oldlol:


Work on your reading comprehension bud.
I never said Pop felt one way or another. I was responding to the dumb notion that an NBA automatically has a more valid opinion that someone who has never played.
Hence why I mentioned Pop, who never played in the NBA, to counteract Shaq.

And what is your quote suppose to prove. Everyone says Kobe mirrors Jordan. That doesn't mean he anywhere near his level or better than Lebron either.


You stay making subtle bitch ass jabs at me. Your flip flopping from sucking Kobe to Bron back to Kobe is pathetic.
Acting like Kobe is a better scorer because the put up great numbers in the RS of a year where EVERYONE was posting career highs is dumb.

Why doesn't Kobe have any advantage in scoring in the playoffs, where defense is tighter?

I don't even know who this clown is yet apparently I'm taking "subtle jabs" at him. :oldlol:

Maybe its time to take a break from ISH and get some fresh air dude? Just a thought.

[raprap]

Wait till LeBron retires and wait for Shaq or Charles to say that he's the greatest since MJ. They don't think this shit through like others, they don't give af

[IllegalD]

Wait till LeBron retires and wait for Shaq or Charles to say that he's the greatest since MJ. They don't think this shit through like others, they don't give af


And then what happens?

Then all the people on this board who were calling Shaq and Barkley idiots and saying that ex players don't know sh*t about basketball will flip-flop and hail them as geniuses? And also use their quotes to gloat?

:confusedshrug: :lol

[Screamin A Smit]

DAMN! All the Kobe stans that been ghost for two months BOOM come out the woodwork!


These cats been lurkin here the whole time reading all threads and not saying a PEEP until now :roll: :roll: :rolleyes:

[JT123]

Damn, IllegalD getting absolutely THROAT F*cked in this thread :lebronamazed: :hammertime: :hammertime:


But.., But Kobe's teammate said he was the best :roll: :cry:
:roll:

[Dave3]

Thinking Kobe is the greatest player since Jordan isn't a ridiculous opinion.

Shaq's opinions however, have been very questionable in the past. This is the guy who said in 2008 that Amare was a better player than KG because of defense. In the year that KG won DPOY.

[pauk]

That means... Kobe > Shaq himself aswell... im pretty sure he didnt think this one through considering its coming from a guy who used to go "Kobe tell me how my ass tastes... couldnt do it without me"

[RRR3]

You can find as many quotes saying "Kobe>LeBron" as you want. It won't change reality :lol


Consider how this would look in a court of law:


LeBron's side: factual evidence, data-based arguments

Kobe's side: Quotes by famous people





:roll:

[plowking]

This was said in such a condescending way lol...

"When I couldn't score, I always told Kobe, you know, pick it up, we need it"... lol.

Essentially signifying he was the top dog out of them two.

Shaq has been very PC about his relationship with Kobe recently. He is even slowly warming back to Wade, although he never had that top dog thing over either of Wade or Bron.

[Bankaii]

No, your first post wasnt obviously hyperbole. Nor am I acting like I know you, or care to. I'm commenting on what you said, who you are or whatever your intentions are under the surface I couldnt give 2 shits about.

If you take an analyst opinion over most players, good for you. Thats your perogative. Others may take a players view who has been through the wars and especially who played and practiced with a player for 10 years. Its why there is no definitive 'top 10' list, although usually the same name appears, because people are judging on different criteria. Shaq played with Kobe and Lebron, maybe his opinion is derived from his experience seeing each player behind the scenes, and not studying a bunch of advanced metrics or whatever else from a 5 second google. Who knows?

In general, I dont think Shaq is the best analyst just from watching him on TNT, but there are players who break the game down well. Grant Hill, Webber, Kerr before he got into executive positions and coaching. Shaqs comments should carry some weight just from playing with and against both players, whatever metrics he uses are his metrics and regardless of whether his opinion suits you. Instead of arguing the content of his comments, basing the discussion around whose opinion you personally deem more legit than others is pointless to begin with. Debate what hes saying, noone cares if you think his opinion shouldnt carry more weight than an analyst or some random forum poster.
Then why the fck have you and like 4 other Kobetards gotten your panties in such a bunch?
All I said was a player's opinion shouldn't be taken as the end all. Period.
If you didn't agree, scroll past my post and stfu. Instead you've written novel after novel accomplishing nothing and talking about irrelevant trash.

And Kuniva go suck a dick dude. You come in every thread making a inadvertent insult at me, but keep pretending like you don't.

If Shaq would've said Lebron, I highly doubt any of these posters would've argued my post at all.

[tamaraw08]

Shaq is definitely bias. lol at those who say he isn't. Let's see, he won 3 with Kobe. Of course he would pick Kobe. Yes, they had issues in the past, but he also has tried overcompensating for years to look like he has matured, which would include praising Kobe at every turn.

Actually Shaq's revelation kinda weakened his proclamation that he was the MDE, as in Most Dominant Ever:pimp:
This also killed that stupid notion that Shaq "CARRIED" Kobe. :facepalm
Heck I remembered after Beating the Spurs in a post interview, Shaq kept saying to Kobe "I Love you", because of the way Kobe dominated the Spurs. I, and Im pretty sure Shaq himself was frustrated with Shaq(he shot 38% game 2) as the Lakers were bleeding for points back then, Kobe simply took over.
Shaq carrying Kobe.... forget the fact that Kobe averaged a few points just short of Shaq's output. :rolleyes:
BTW, Yes Shaq was dominant esp in the finals and( theres no way that Lebron can snatch those FMVP's from him if he took the place of Kobe)
Kobe was the one finishing those games as Shaq would score most of his points in the first 3 quarters.

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe has MANY 35+ and 40 point games in the postseason and has played better competition as a whole ie. the western conference. Not only that, but playing with Shaq for the first half of his career obviously prevented him from accumulating more points. Somebody will post his FGA to "disprove" that, but when an offense isn't built and focused around you, like it was w/ Shaq and LeBron today, its apples and oranges.

Nobody is saying Kobe > Shaq or LeBron, at least I'm not. Its just that too many posters on here are focused on stats yet can't actually talk hoops.

Stats say LeBron is better, so lets crap on Shaq. Pathetic :oldlol:



I don't even know who this clown is yet apparently I'm taking "subtle jabs" at him. :oldlol:

Maybe its time to take a break from ISH and get some fresh air dude? Just a thought.


What the heck are you even trying to prove? What does this incoherent mess mean?

You're trying to argue that Kobe is a great scorer? Probably but not a patch on the Lebrons or Jordan's of the world when it counts.

Lebron has 17-18 post season 40 point games in 13 years. Kobe has 13 in 20 seasons.
Lebron had 2 40 point finals games in 3 days this past June. Kobe had 1 in 20 years.

Their career ppg, playoff ppg, fg%, efg%, ts% are all overwhelmingly in Lebron's favor.
Playoff total points will also be in Lebron's favor in the next 3 playoff games that Lebron plays


If you're trying to make a comparison between their scoring,your going to embarass yourself and get laughed out of here. In the playoffs and finals, Lebron is tiers ahead of Kobe as a scorer.

[aj1987]

Kobe has MANY 35+ and 40 point games in the postseason and has played better competition as a whole ie. the western conference. Not only that, but playing with Shaq for the first half of his career obviously prevented him from accumulating more points. Somebody will post his FGA to "disprove" that, but when an offense isn't built and focused around you, like it was w/ Shaq and LeBron today, its apples and oranges.

Nobody is saying Kobe > Shaq or LeBron, at least I'm not. Its just that too many posters on here are focused on stats yet can't actually talk hoops.

Stats say LeBron is better, so lets crap on Shaq. Pathetic :oldlol:
Come on, dude. We've been through this. Even after Shaq, when taking Kobe's prime seasons into account, dude averaged only 1 point more than LeBron and that was on worse efficiency.

Again, we're comparing LeBron's ENTIRE career to some of Kobe's best seasons.

Sure, Kobe did face better competition in the PO's (the Nuggets, Jazz, and Suns' defenses.. :oldlol: ), but look at their Finals stats. I don't want to sound like Feeny, but LeBron, in 3 days, had more 40 point games than Kobe did in his entire 20 year career.

Look at their elimination games stats as well. When the going gets tough, LeBron delivers. Kobe usually falters.

[Mr Feeny]

Come on, dude. We've been through this. Even after Shaq, when taking Kobe's prime seasons into account, dude averaged only 1 point more than LeBron and that was on worse efficiency.

Again, we're comparing LeBron's ENTIRE career to some of Kobe's best seasons.

Sure, Kobe did face better competition in the PO's (the Nuggets, Jazz, and Suns' defenses.. :oldlol: ), but look at their Finals stats. I don't want to sound like Feeny, but LeBron, in 3 days, had more 40 point games than Kobe did in his entire 20 year career.

Look at their elimination games stats as well. When the going gets tough, LeBron delivers. Kobe usually falters.

My nicca that's cold:coleman: :no: :no: :lol

[Dragonyeuw]

Then why the fck have you and like 4 other Kobetards gotten your panties in such a bunch?
All I said was a player's opinion shouldn't be taken as the end all. Period.
If you didn't agree, scroll past my post and stfu. Instead you've written novel after novel accomplishing nothing and talking about irrelevant trash.



Wrong. Far from it. On the topic of irrelevance no-one gives a **** about who you deem to have a valid opinion. I got sucked into replying to something completely insignificant. That's one thing I do agree with you on, should have scrolled right past it. I'll remember to do that for your reply to this.

[Dragonyeuw]

Come on, dude. We've been through this. Even after Shaq, when taking Kobe's prime seasons into account, dude averaged only 1 point more than LeBron and that was on worse efficiency.

Again, we're comparing LeBron's ENTIRE career to some of Kobe's best seasons.

Sure, Kobe did face better competition in the PO's (the Nuggets, Jazz, and Suns' defenses.. :oldlol: ), but look at their Finals stats. I don't want to sound like Feeny, but LeBron, in 3 days, had more 40 point games than Kobe did in his entire 20 year career.

Look at their elimination games stats as well. When the going gets tough, LeBron delivers. Kobe usually falters.

Yeah, Bron has quite clearly established himself as a superior playoff scorer for their careers, especially in big game situations.

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.