ESPN.com poll "Who is the best player since MJ?"

[IllegalD]

Results:

Kobe: 47% (22,963 votes)

LeBron 36% (17,605 votes)

Duncan: 9% (4,250 votes)

Shaq: 3% (1,559 votes)

Curry: 3% (1,263 votes)

Other: 2% (761 votes)



Multiple NBA greats pick Kobe, the general population picks Kobe. Looks like the only idiots that don't think Kobe is the best player since MJ are ESPN writers and ISH retards.

:banana: :dancin :djparty :hammertime:

[iamgine]

Well, Kobe is the most popular since MJ, so it make sense he'd win in any poll.

But he's not the best player since MJ.

[IllegalD]

Well, Kobe is the most popular since MJ, so it make sense he'd win in any poll.

But he's not the best player since MJ.


:wtf: :facepalm :no:

Kobe is the most polarizing player since Wilt Chamberlain. Dude's public reputation tanked when he got accused of sexual assault. Only in his farewell season was he finally loved by fans.

[Goofsta Knicca]

Da Bald Mamba edges out Da King Cobra. :rockon:

[jstern]

How can anyone take fan votes seriously. It's all just a popularity contest, and most who vote are teenager types who have a lot of free time. Should Kobe have been an All Star last season? Still got voted in because of his popularity. Same as Grant Hill when he walked in crutches having only played 4 games that season.

Also, can someone explain what's going on in the main page? Why are there all these random sticky topics by one user?

[retaxis]

Let Lebron finish his career first?

Make this poll when Lebron retires in say 8 yrs time and lets see what people will say about the best player since MJ.

[tpols]

so when an expert says it, it's just " well experts arent any more informed than the average moron" .. and when fans do it it's "well, theyre all just morons" ... ISH should unleash it's secret team of anonymous elite player rankers to settle this debate.

[Smoke117]

If you think Kobe Bryant is the best player since Michael Jordan...you're a moron plain and simple. Of course Kobe is picked by a poll for the casual fan...he's the guy who ha sbeen force fed into everyone's face for nearly 20 years as the next big thing.

[bigkingsfan]

41,706 total votes, 9,270 from CA alone. 22% total. There are states like Illinois that despised Lebron. Yea, not biased or anything like that.

[NBAGOAT]

kobe's popular and his fans are passionate, same for lebron ofc. duncan and shaq getting a total of 12% and curry getting 3% over a few consensus top 25 guys should make it obvious this is just a popularity contest. do the kobe and bron stans on here really think both duncan and shaq arent even close to getting consideration.

[BigKAT]

Most Popular player.
Kudos to him.

[iamgine]

Popularity isn't a bad thing.

[SwayDizzle]

Bron stans avoidin thiS thread like the plague

[FreezingTsmoove]

Well, Kobe is the most popular since MJ, so it make sense he'd win in any poll.

But he's not the best player since MJ.


WOW SO NOT ONLY IS DOES HE HAVE MORE RINGS THAN, IS CALLED A GREATER PLAYER THAN BRON BY OTHER TOP 10 GREATS (Jordan, Shaq), AND HAVE A BETTER WIN RECORD AGAINST ANOTHER TOP 10 GREAT IN TIM DUNCAN IN THE PLAYOFFS BUT BUT BUT BUT HE IS ALSO MORE POPULAR ����������!!!!!

Wheres the damn argument for Bron besides BIASED MEDIA AWARDS ������

Yeah his 3 FMVP were earned :applause: BUT YOU FINNA SIT HERE AND TELL ME HE WAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE IN 2009 2010 ������������������ THOSE MVPS MEAN NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO KOBE BECAUSE .....well they are Kobes awards if you count where it really matters


THE PLAYOFFS

In the real world if we were give MVPs to the rightful owners we would have Kobe at

***** 5 rings 3mvps and 2 finals mvp along with being the best 2nd option of all time during his younger years

Vs

3 rings 2mvps and 3 finals mvp along with 2 bronze medals absolutely embarassing the country. No excuses because Jordan won an olympic gold while surrounded with other college players. Bron couldnt get it done with other pros


So basically if you take Brons 2 mvps away and give them to Kobe who has a SERIOUS case for the MVP then you see there really is discussion for who is the better player right now...

Keep in mind Lebrons legacy will go down if he keeps losing in the finals

[Megabox!]

WOW SO NOT ONLY IS DOES HE HAVE MORE RINGS THAN, IS CALLED A GREATER PLAYER THAN BRON BY OTHER TOP 10 GREATS (Jordan, Shaq), AND HAVE A BETTER WIN RECORD AGAINST ANOTHER TOP 10 GREAT IN TIM DUNCAN IN THE PLAYOFFS BUT BUT BUT BUT HE IS ALSO MORE POPULAR ����������!!!!!

Wheres the damn argument for Bron besides BIASED MEDIA AWARDS ������

Yeah his 3 FMVP were earned :applause: BUT YOU FINNA SIT HERE AND TELL ME HE WAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE IN 2009 2010 ������������������ THOSE MVPS MEAN NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO KOBE BECAUSE .....well they are Kobes awards if you count where it really matters


THE PLAYOFFS

In the real world if we were give MVPs to the rightful owners we would have Kobe at

***** 5 rings 3mvps and 2 finals mvp along with being the best 2nd option of all time during his younger years

Vs

3 rings 2mvps and 3 finals mvp along with 2 bronze medals absolutely embarassing the country. No excuses because Jordan won an olympic gold while surrounded with other college players. Bron couldnt get it done with other pros


So basically if you take Brons 2 mvps away and give them to Kobe who has a SERIOUS case for the MVP then you see there really is discussion for who is the better player right now...

Keep in mind Lebrons legacy will go down if he keeps losing in the finals
Probably the dumbest thing I've read all week, and I used Facebook earlier today

[JT123]

Kobe's been great at winning popularity contests the last few years (see his last 3 all star appearances)
Unfortunately he has sucked when it comes to shooting over 40% and actually winning games. :confusedshrug: And I am saying this as a HUGE stan of his

[IllegalD]

Bron stans avoidin thiS thread like the plague

Dem little boys scurred

:banana: :lebroncry: :hammertime: :yaohappy: :dancin

[SwayDizzle]

Dem little boys scurred

:banana: :lebroncry: :hammertime: :yaohappy: :dancin
:roll: dem rats scared of the light

[Meticode]

Damn, that's a a lot closer than I thought it would be between LeBron and Kobe considering Kobe has played 7 more years in the league.

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq with the same amount of votes as Curry, and 1% more than "other"

[SouBeachTalents]

Let Kobe stans have their opinion polls, the actual facts and evidence point to LeBron being better in every conceivable way

More MVP's
More FMVP's
Better regular season numbers
Better postseason numbers
Better Finals numbers
Better advanced numbers
Better elimination game numbers

Facts > Opinion

[LostCause]

Yal don't get tired of arguing the same shit everyday?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

so when an expert says it, it's just " well experts arent any more informed than the average moron" .. and when fans do it it's "well, theyre all just morons" ... ISH should unleash it's secret team of anonymous elite player rankers to settle this debate.

Amazing isn't it?

Kobe aint the best player post MJ, even you probably would agree with that, but its funny seeing the same dumbass posts in every Bean thread. Like an eternal excuse-wagon hitched for the naysayers. :oldlol:

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq.

[aj1987]

Shaq.
This. Shaq is top 4. LeBron needs another Ring/FMVP or MVP to pass Shaq on the all-time list.

[toprange]

I agree on kobe being the best since MJ, there's no suprise for me there. BUT, lebron should not be #2, he should be #4 on that list.

[Tzachc]

Definitely Kobe!

you should cheak out my new Kobe Bryant video.
Its based on the "Dear Basketball" speach by Morgan Freeman!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4EYmxjtTyc

Enjoy!:kobe:

[toprange]

This. Shaq is top 4. LeBron needs another Ring/FMVP or MVP to pass Shaq on the all-time list.
Shaq's 4 rings, 3 FMVPs >>>>>>>> Lebron's *3 rings, *3 FMVPs

[hold this L]

Only 3% for Shaq, the fvking disrespekk

:coleman:

[aj1987]

Shaq's 4 rings, 3 FMVPs >>>>>>>> Lebron's 3 rings, 3 FMVPs
That's what I said, you autistic shit.

It should be:

1. Shaq
2. LeBron
3. Duncan




4. Kobe

[Dragonyeuw]

so when an expert says it, it's just " well experts arent any more informed than the average moron" .. and when fans do it it's "well, theyre all just morons" ... ISH should unleash it's secret team of anonymous elite player rankers to settle this debate.

At this point, the ghost of James ****ing Naismith could come out and say Kobe, and he'd be declared an idiot. I don't agree with the results of the poll, but basically ISH logic 'if you don't agree with me, you're a ****ing moron'.

[Annyong!]

No kidding that Kobe won a popularity contest.

[Annyong!]

:wtf: :facepalm :no:

Kobe is the most polarizing player since Wilt Chamberlain. Dude's public reputation tanked when he got accused of sexual assault. Only in his farewell season was he finally loved by fans.
Doesn't matter that he is the most polarizing. People that don't like him can't take away votes from those who do.

[ShawkFactory]

WOW SO NOT ONLY IS DOES HE HAVE MORE RINGS THAN, IS CALLED A GREATER PLAYER THAN BRON BY OTHER TOP 10 GREATS (Jordan, Shaq), AND HAVE A BETTER WIN RECORD AGAINST ANOTHER TOP 10 GREAT IN TIM DUNCAN IN THE PLAYOFFS BUT BUT BUT BUT HE IS ALSO MORE POPULAR ����������!!!!!

Wheres the damn argument for Bron besides BIASED MEDIA AWARDS ������

Yeah his 3 FMVP were earned :applause: BUT YOU FINNA SIT HERE AND TELL ME HE WAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE IN 2009 2010 ������������������ THOSE MVPS MEAN NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO KOBE BECAUSE .....well they are Kobes awards if you count where it really matters


THE PLAYOFFS

In the real world if we were give MVPs to the rightful owners we would have Kobe at

***** 5 rings 3mvps and 2 finals mvp along with being the best 2nd option of all time during his younger years

Vs

3 rings 2mvps and 3 finals mvp along with 2 bronze medals absolutely embarassing the country. No excuses because Jordan won an olympic gold while surrounded with other college players. Bron couldnt get it done with other pros


So basically if you take Brons 2 mvps away and give them to Kobe who has a SERIOUS case for the MVP then you see there really is discussion for who is the better player right now...

Keep in mind Lebrons legacy will go down if he keeps losing in the finals
Oh my god stop

[Nilocon165]

WOW SO NOT ONLY IS DOES HE HAVE MORE RINGS THAN, IS CALLED A GREATER PLAYER THAN BRON BY OTHER TOP 10 GREATS (Jordan, Shaq), AND HAVE A BETTER WIN RECORD AGAINST ANOTHER TOP 10 GREAT IN TIM DUNCAN IN THE PLAYOFFS BUT BUT BUT BUT HE IS ALSO MORE POPULAR ����������!!!!!

Wheres the damn argument for Bron besides BIASED MEDIA AWARDS ������

Yeah his 3 FMVP were earned :applause: BUT YOU FINNA SIT HERE AND TELL ME HE WAS A BETTER PLAYER THAN KOBE IN 2009 2010 ������������������ THOSE MVPS MEAN NOTHING IN COMPARISON TO KOBE BECAUSE .....well they are Kobes awards if you count where it really matters


THE PLAYOFFS

In the real world if we were give MVPs to the rightful owners we would have Kobe at

***** 5 rings 3mvps and 2 finals mvp along with being the best 2nd option of all time during his younger years

Vs

3 rings 2mvps and 3 finals mvp along with 2 bronze medals absolutely embarassing the country. No excuses because Jordan won an olympic gold while surrounded with other college players. Bron couldnt get it done with other pros


So basically if you take Brons 2 mvps away and give them to Kobe who has a SERIOUS case for the MVP then you see there really is discussion for who is the better player right now...

Keep in mind Lebrons legacy will go down if he keeps losing in the finals
HOLLLLLLLLY **** WHAT A MELTDOWN

[toprange]

Doesn't matter that he is the most polarizing. People that don't like him can't take away votes from those who do.
What the hell does that even mean. Do you know how votes work

[Lebronxrings]

so do you honestly believe this?

[toprange]

so do you honestly believe this?
most fans believe it and most players believe it. But don't worry you have the media

[Bankaii]

Fans' opinions don't matter. Only people that have played in the NBA are knowledgable about the game.

Ron Artest said Lebron is the GOAT. He's played with Kobe and guarded both Lebron/Kobe so his opinions is more valid than everyone else's.
His opinion>this poll.

Lebron=GOAT.
Logic:applause:

[toprange]

Fans' opinions don't matter. Only people that have played in the NBA are knowledgable about the game.

Ron Artest said Lebron is the GOAT. He's played with Kobe and guarded both Lebron/Kobe so his opinions is more valid than everyone else's.
His opinion>this poll.

Lebron=GOAT.
Logic:applause:
We finally agree. And the players pick kobe:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417821

[Bankaii]

We finally agree. And the players pick kobe:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=417821
You can't read. Of that list only Wade has played against both peak Lebron and Kobe. And he didn guard Lebron so his opinion is less valid.

Ron Artest guarded both Lebron and Kobe at their best, and chose Lebron.
Lebron>Kobe.
Logic:applause:

[tamaraw08]

Doesn't matter that he is the most polarizing. People that don't like him can't take away votes from those who do.

But they would probably vote the next player to prevent Kobe from winning the poll.

[tamaraw08]

so do you honestly believe this?

For me, I will not get into who is better, Lebron or Kobe.
Both are great players, somewhat different in their approach but I just find it crazy when some Lebron stans insinuate that Lebron is several notches better than Kobe.:facepalm

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.

[Nick Young]

Kobe always wins.:rockon:

[Kool Boy]

Results:

Kobe: 47% (22,963 votes)

LeBron 36% (17,605 votes)

Duncan: 9% (4,250 votes)

Shaq: 3% (1,559 votes)

Curry: 3% (1,263 votes)

Other: 2% (761 votes)



Multiple NBA greats pick Kobe, the general population picks Kobe. Looks like the only idiots that don't think Kobe is the best player since MJ are ESPN writers and ISH retards.

:banana: :dancin :djparty :hammertime:

:facepalm Kobe isn't even the 2nd best....

[egokiller]

The reason why it's Kobe is simple. The man wanted to prove that he could win without Shaq. He knew that his legacy would forever be tainted if he won all his rings with Shaq on the team. Not a single player on that voting list would have done what Kobe did and caused Shaq to leave, and it is for this reason why he will always be more alpha. He went to the finals 7 times and won 2 rings without Shaq. I don't even know if MJ himself would have done what Kobe did if he was in Kobe's shoes. Can you see MJ not wanting to play with Shaq?

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.

[BedroomBully]

Lol you know this $hit is flawed when you have Shaq and Curry tied. Lol

[Yup767]

The reason why it's Kobe is simple. The man wanted to prove that he could win without Shaq. He knew that his legacy would forever be tainted if he won all his rings with Shaq on the team. Not a single player on that voting list would have done what Kobe did and caused Shaq to leave, and it is for this reason why he will always be more alpha. He went to the finals 7 times and won 2 rings without Shaq. I don't even know if MJ himself would have done what Kobe did if he was in Kobe's shoes. Can you see MJ not wanting to play with Shaq?

:roll:

Wait, so the argument for Kobe being a better basketball player is that he pushed Shaq out of his team?

If I push my grandma out of my car does that make me a better driver?

When comparing basketball players it is important to compare their ability to play basketball, especially considering that is literally the only thing that matters.

[SouBeachTalents]

:roll:

Wait, so the argument for Kobe being a better basketball player is that he pushed Shaq out of his team?

If I push my grandma out of my car does that make me a better driver?

When comparing basketball players it is important to compare their ability to play basketball, especially considering that is literally the only thing that matters.

:roll:

[knicksman]

Anyone who cares about stats would look much better than they should be. Just look at wilt.

And anyone who cant see that lebron is a statpadder is a dumbass. Thats why we judge players based on the games that matters(e.g. against the spurs in the playoffs) coz you cant manipulate those.

[knicksman]

:roll:

Wait, so the argument for Kobe being a better basketball player is that he pushed Shaq out of his team?

If I push my grandma out of my car does that make me a better driver?

When comparing basketball players it is important to compare their ability to play basketball, especially considering that is literally the only thing that matters.


Yeah coz there are 2 drivers in a car.


Looks like we have another dumb bran stan

[SamuraiSWISH]

I'd go

LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Other (Wade, KG, KD, Kidd, AI, Nash, Dirk, Melo)
Curry

[NBAGOAT]

:roll:

Wait, so the argument for Kobe being a better basketball player is that he pushed Shaq out of his team?

If I push my grandma out of my car does that make me a better driver?

When comparing basketball players it is important to compare their ability to play basketball, especially considering that is literally the only thing that matters.

:lol excellent 1st post. anyway it's actually a good thing that people think that mj would've made it work with shaq.

[egokiller]

:roll:

Wait, so the argument for Kobe being a better basketball player is that he pushed Shaq out of his team?

If I push my grandma out of my car does that make me a better driver?

When comparing basketball players it is important to compare their ability to play basketball, especially considering that is literally the only thing that matters.

Kobe pushed Shaq out of the team AND proved that he could win without him. Period. It's called wanting to shape your legacy. People talked shit saying that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick and that Shaq was the leader, so Kobe made the world eat their words. What transpired is known as the ultimate "i told you so" of NBA history. Do you understand the difference between this and leaving teams to form super teams? No one gives a shit about players who form super teams and have success. That is to be EXPECTED. There's nothing exciting about it. What is exciting is when a guy kicks the most dominant peak player of all time off his team and proves to the world that he was good enough to still win without him. Name one other player that kicked the most dominant player of all time off his team and was still great enough to win.

[Da_Realist]

I'd go

LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
Duncan
Other (Wade, KG, KD, Kidd, AI, Nash, Dirk, Melo)
Curry

If you were starting a team, you'd take Lebron over Shaq and Duncan? I wouldn't. Not even close. Shaq had the most dominant stretch since MJ and took 3 different teams to the Finals. Let's not forget he took Orlando to the Finals in his 3rd year and would have done it the next year too if not for the 96 Bulls. Wouldn't he have done it again if he had to play Derrick Rose's Bulls instead?

Duncan has always played on a competitive, championship ready team even though he played in a tough Western Conference and had to fight off Shaq's dominant early 00's Lakers for the first half of his career and then there was the Kobe/Pau/Odom Lakers a few years later. He would have made the Finals every year if all he had to beat were the Wizards, Pacers and Hawks. Imagine San Antonio in the East feasting on trash teams 75% of the year.

Both of those players proved they could play in a system where their teammates could mature and grow into stars thereby pushing the ceiling to how good their teams could really get.

[jstern]

Kobe pushed Shaq out of the team AND proved that he could win without him. Period. It's called wanting to shape your legacy. People talked shit saying that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick and that Shaq was the leader, so Kobe made the world eat their words. What transpired is known as the ultimate "i told you so" of NBA history. Do you understand the difference between this and leaving teams to form super teams? No one gives a shit about players who form super teams and have success. That is to be EXPECTED. There's nothing exciting about it. What is exciting is when a guy kicks the most dominant peak player of all time off his team and proves to the world that he was good enough to still win without him. Name one other player that kicked the most dominant player of all time off his team and was still great enough to win.

Who did the Lakers give up for Gasol?

[ArbitraryWater]

Here is the correct rank of players since MJ:

Bron
Shaq
Duncan
Dirk
Kobe
KG
Wade
KD
Curry

Other (Nash first)

[Doranku]

Why would there be 2 drivers in a car
:facepalm

[Nilocon165]

:facepalm
I mean one person is driving at a time

If one driver is getting you safely to the destination and on time you don't just shove them out of the car because they're a problem

[Hey Yo]

Kobe pushed Shaq out of the team AND proved that he could win without him. Period. It's called wanting to shape your legacy. People talked shit saying that Kobe was Shaq's sidekick and that Shaq was the leader, so Kobe made the world eat their words. What transpired is known as the ultimate "i told you so" of NBA history. Do you understand the difference between this and leaving teams to form super teams? No one gives a shit about players who form super teams and have success. That is to be EXPECTED. There's nothing exciting about it. What is exciting is when a guy kicks the most dominant peak player of all time off his team and proves to the world that he was good enough to still win without him. Name one other player that kicked the most dominant player of all time off his team and was still great enough to win.
Here's a video of Kobe admitting he was Shaq's sidekick. So does that mean he was talking shit about himself? What he's saying about himself isn't true?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

[SamuraiSWISH]

Here is the correct rank of players since MJ:

Bron
Shaq
Duncan
Dirk
Kobe
KG
Wade
KD
Curry

Other (Nash first)
Lol this makes no sense. Even Dirk himself would be like "huh?"

Kobe has 2x rings as the man.
Dirk has 1x ring as the man. (w/ more help as well)

Kobe has 1x MVP.
Dirk has 1x MVP. The most embarrassing one at that of all time. 67 win 1st round knock out via 8th seed.

:oldlol:

22 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg on 47% and a complete non factor defensively

vs

25 ppg, 5 rpg, 5 apg on 45% and 9x Defensive 1st Team, and 3x Defensive 2nd Team

Your Dirk stanning and irrational Kobe hate is hilarious. There is not one player on that entire list, including "others" who is as one trick pony as Dirk. And in that one dimension, several players are superior to him. Including the one in comparison right now.

Irk Nowitzki has already been surpassed or never was better than KG, KD, Wade, and Curry. All have one MVP or a season better than Dirk's actual fraud award winning season, and just as many if not more rings.

[IllegalD]

Here's a video of Kobe admitting he was Shaq's sidekick. So does that mean he was talking shit about himself? What he's saying about himself isn't true?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html


So what players say now is important and bible truth?

Weren't you one of the ones dismissing Shaq saying Kobe was the best since MJ a couple of years ago?

What a flip-flopping, goal-post-shifting BIATCH! :roll:

[jstern]

Here's a video of Kobe admitting he was Shaq's sidekick. So does that mean he was talking shit about himself? What he's saying about himself isn't true?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

There was no 10 year wait to hear Kobe say that. After the Detroit series he told Phil Jackson that he was tired of being a side kick. It's in Phil's book, but I guess Kobe stans will just say that Phil made it up.

He was clearly Shaq's side kick, it's not a secret. I guess it's new for his younger fans who where too young when the Lakers won with Kobe and Shaq.

[SouBeachTalents]

There was no 10 year wait to hear Kobe say that. After the Detroit series he told Phil Jackson that he was tired of being a side kick. It's in Phil's book, but I guess Kobe stans will just say that Phil made it up.

He was clearly Shaq's side kick, it's not a secret. I guess it's new for his younger fans who where too young when the Lakers won with Kobe and Shaq.

Kobe was a true sidekick in '00, in '01 he was legitimately as good as Shaq was during their undefeated WC run, and while not quite as close it was still a 1A/1B situation in '02. In terms of the Finals though Kobe was the sidekick, getting outscored in those series at a near Jordan/Pippen level

[ArbitraryWater]

Lol this makes no sense. Even Dirk himself would be like "huh?"

Kobe has 2x rings as the man.
Dirk has 1x ring as the man. (w/ more help as well)

Irk Nowitzki has already been surpassed or never was better than KG, KD, Wade, and Curry. All have one MVP or a season better than Dirk's actual fraud award winning season, and just as many if not more rings.

http://gifstumblr.com/images/never-go-full-retard_1271.gif



















http://24.media.tumblr.com/1549ef9f321d6a245b4abec88e25b121/tumblr_moz0rx8lzE1sqv808o1_250.gif

[SamuraiSWISH]

http://gifstumblr.com/images/never-go-full-retard_1271.gif









http://24.media.tumblr.com/1549ef9f321d6a245b4abec88e25b121/tumblr_moz0rx8lzE1sqv808o1_250.gif
Your defense wins on pure, knowledgable "basketball reasons".

Much appreciated for your well thought out response. Say in public at a court or at a barber shop that Dirk > Kobe and get laughed out the gym or room.

Hell, say it to Dirk himself and he'd probably call you a moron.

[bigkingsfan]

Dirk is 4-0 vs Kobe.

[jstern]

Kobe was a true sidekick in '00, in '01 he was legitimately as good as Shaq was during their undefeated WC run, and whe not quite as close it was still a 1A/1B situation in '02. In terms of the Finals though Kobe was the sidekick, getting outscored in those series at a near Jordan/Pippen level
Kobe was a great player, but back then no one was saying that it was a 1a/1b situation. Shaq completely dominating the league at an insane level. Nobody was having such a discussion, and nobody cared about such a debate like they do in these boards.

Years later, around 2010, during the player of the decade ESPN voting, I remember reading a lot of conversations that I found quite fascinating from teenagers about the nominees. Teenagers who were probably too young to have watched those championships teem. In a non trolling way, their perception was that back then Kobe was Kobe, and the current Shaq at the time equal prime Shaq. And Shaq was sort of the sidekick. It was fascinating to me because it showed me how people are born with a completely blank slate, life before them was more like a fairy tail. And they make the best logical thoughts that they can, but it's all based on very limited and incorrect assumptions.

It would be like Lebron and Kyrie winning the next two Finals, then after that a 12 year old starts watching the NBA, Lebron slows down, Kyrie gets better, and 7 years later this whole Lebron phenomenon is something that never happened. And since his focus is on the few years hes watch, and the NBA 10 years from now. His perception which to him feels like a life time of knowledge, his perception would be that Kyrie was the man for those championships, and the 37 year old Lebron, the only Lebron that they've ever known = prime Lebron, because they have no real concept of players getting old. But at least it gets a little better when they get older, and more if they are exposed to a place that constantly bring up points and counter points about past eras and current players.

[egokiller]

Here's a video of Kobe admitting he was Shaq's sidekick. So does that mean he was talking shit about himself? What he's saying about himself isn't true?

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/blogs/triple-threat/Lakers-Kobe-Bryant-Shaq-sidekick-video-191065851.html

What was said got to him so of course he started to believe it himself. That's what prompted the whole thing of him having Shaq leave. Actions always speak louder than words, and the action committed was that he had Shaq leave the team, and then proved he was able to win without the most dominant player to ever play the game. You think guy's like KD and Lebron would have done the same? Both would have been Shaq's sidekick, yet they would have tried to milk that dynasty for as long as they could. Such is the difference between Kobe's alpha mindset and Lebron/KD and the like's beta mindset. It's not hard to distinguish based on the history and what we know about all these players based on their previous actions. The best player since MJ can be argued, but the best alpha since MJ cannot. Kobe holds that title an it's very clear cut and to this day Shaq respects Kobe for shaping his own legacy and understands why he did what he did.

[IllegalD]

Kobe was a great player, but back then no one was saying that it was a 1a/1b situation. Shaq completely dominating the league at an insane level. Nobody was having such a discussion, and nobody cared about such a debate like they do in these boards.

Years later, around 2010, during the player of the decade ESPN voting, I remember reading a lot of conversations that I found quite fascinating from teenagers about the nominees. Teenagers who were probably too young to have watched those championships teem. In a non trolling way, their perception was that back then Kobe was Kobe, and the current Shaq at the time equal prime Shaq. And Shaq was sort of the sidekick. It was fascinating to me because it showed me how people are born with a completely blank slate, life before them was more like a fairy tail. And they make the best logical thoughts that they can, but it's all based on very limited and incorrect assumptions.

It would be like Lebron and Kyrie winning the next two Finals, then after that a 12 year old starts watching the NBA, Lebron slows down, Kyrie gets better, and 7 years later this whole Lebron phenomenon is something that never happened. And since his focus is on the few years hes watch, and the NBA 10 years from now. His perception which to him feels like a life time of knowledge, his perception would be that Kyrie was the man for those championships, and the 37 year old Lebron, the only Lebron that they've ever known = prime Lebron, because they have no real concept of players getting old. But at least it gets a little better when they get older, and more if they are exposed to a place that constantly bring up points and counter points about past eras and current players.


You're full of sh*t, dude. Plenty of people were calling Kobe "the best player in the league" by 2001, including Shaq himself. :no:

[Mr Feeny]

You're full of sh*t, dude. Plenty of people were calling Kobe "the best player in the league" by 2001, including Shaq himself. :no:

Opinions:sleeping
Duncan was ten times a better player in 2001. So was Shaq. So was KG.

[JT123]

You're full of sh*t, dude. Plenty of people were calling Kobe "the best player in the league" by 2001, including Shaq himself. :no:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Hey Yo]

So what players say now is important and bible truth?
:biggums:

He's saying it about "himself!!" It's not another persons opinion about Kobe....it's himself saying he was Shaq's sidekick." How is there an argument when it's his own words??


Weren't you one of the ones dismissing Shaq saying Kobe was the best since MJ a couple of years ago?
Nope


What a flip-flopping, goal-post-shifting BIATCH! :roll:
Not here, chico....try again.

[Hey Yo]

What was said got to him so of course he started to believe it himself. That's what prompted the whole thing of him having Shaq leave. Actions always speak louder than words, and the action committed was that he had Shaq leave the team, and then proved he was able to win without the most dominant player to ever play the game.
Really dude??? He never once thought that he was Shaq's sidekick until the Media and others started suggesting it??

His words before his actions were trade demands after seeing how hard it was to win with a mediocre team. After 2 one-and-done's he cried to the media that he wanted traded. Wonder why?? Maybe because he didn't have enough help? Realized how hard it is to carry the load??



You think guy's like KD and Lebron would have done the same? Both would have been Shaq's sidekick, yet they would have tried to milk that dynasty for as long as they could.
Neither would have settled for riding the bench, passing out towels during timeouts, their first 2 seasons like Kobe did. They were already good enough to compete their rookie seasons. You're doing nothing but speculating they both would be sidekicks and milk it. If that were the case then James and KD would have demanded to play for a team who knew Shaq was going to sign with. A team who was a 4 seed w/o Shaq the previous year.


Such is the difference between Kobe's alpha mindset and Lebron/KD and the like's beta mindset. It's not hard to distinguish based on the history and what we know about all these players based on their previous actions. The best player since MJ can be argued, but the best alpha since MJ cannot.
How can a alpha mindset tell teams 'not named the Lakers' to not draft him a day before the draft, cause he wouldn't sign with them? Wouldn't an alpha want to sign for whoever drafts him and show he can help them try to build a contender? NJ Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall, but his young unproven punk ass thought he was above a team like that.

Alpha James went to a garbage franchise with a history of zero titles and a cold bed when it comes to attracting free agents. He tried for 7yrs and changed his course..... while Kobe did it for 2yrs and then cried to be traded. Then he got, in Mitch's words:

[I]"We

[egokiller]

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Really dude??? He never once thought that he was Shaq's sidekick until the Media and others started suggesting it??

His words before his actions were trade demands after seeing how hard it was to win with a mediocre team. After 2 one-and-done's he cried to the media that he wanted traded. Wonder why?? Maybe because he didn't have enough help? Realized how hard it is to carry the load??



Neither would have settled for riding the bench, passing out towels during timeouts, their first 2 seasons like Kobe did. They were already good enough to compete their rookie seasons. You're doing nothing but speculating they both would be sidekicks and milk it. If that were the case then James and KD would have demanded to play for a team who knew Shaq was going to sign with. A team who was a 4 seed w/o Shaq the previous year.


How can a alpha mindset tell teams 'not named the Lakers' to not draft him a day before the draft, cause he wouldn't sign with them? Wouldn't an alpha want to sign for whoever drafts him and show he can help them try to build a contender? NJ Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall, but his young unproven punk ass thought he was above a team like that.

Alpha James went to a garbage franchise with a history of zero titles and a cold bed when it comes to attracting free agents. He tried for 7yrs and changed his course..... while Kobe did it for 2yrs and then cried to be traded. Then he got, in Mitch's words:

[I]"We

[IllegalD]

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Really dude??? He never once thought that he was Shaq's sidekick until the Media and others started suggesting it??

His words before his actions were trade demands after seeing how hard it was to win with a mediocre team. After 2 one-and-done's he cried to the media that he wanted traded. Wonder why?? Maybe because he didn't have enough help? Realized how hard it is to carry the load??



Neither would have settled for riding the bench, passing out towels during timeouts, their first 2 seasons like Kobe did. They were already good enough to compete their rookie seasons. You're doing nothing but speculating they both would be sidekicks and milk it. If that were the case then James and KD would have demanded to play for a team who knew Shaq was going to sign with. A team who was a 4 seed w/o Shaq the previous year.


How can a alpha mindset tell teams 'not named the Lakers' to not draft him a day before the draft, cause he wouldn't sign with them? Wouldn't an alpha want to sign for whoever drafts him and show he can help them try to build a contender? NJ Nets wanted to draft Kobe 8th overall, but his young unproven punk ass thought he was above a team like that.

Alpha James went to a garbage franchise with a history of zero titles and a cold bed when it comes to attracting free agents. He tried for 7yrs and changed his course..... while Kobe did it for 2yrs and then cried to be traded. Then he got, in Mitch's words:

[I]"We

[egokiller]

LeBron changed teams TWICE before the age of 31. Dat alpha... :lol

Not only that but he must be looking at Kyrie who's only 24 wondering how baller it must be to win your first title as the best post season player at your position at just 24 years of age.

[Hey Yo]

Since when is a rookie in position to have an alpha mindset? The alpha mindset didn't occur until after he wanted to part ways from Shaq. It may have taken awhile, but at least he attained that alpha mindset.
How is it an Alpha mindset when he demanded to be traded after only 3 seasons w/o Shaq? He saw it was actual work trying to carry a team. After getting bounced by MVP Nash again and went straight to the media shortly after demanding a trade.


You gonna fault Kobe for wanting to play with his favorite team and then try and pretend that he didn't stay with that same team for 20 years? Again, no one cares what was said, all that matters is what was DONE. The result? Kobe won 2 rings without Shaq and the very fact that he didn't want to play with Shaq to prove that he was the man and deliver on his endeavor is greater than anything we've seen post MJ.
:cry: "I wanna play for my favorite team." :cry:......If he wanted to show the world that he was ready for the NBA then he would have made no demands. He would have played for Calipari and the Nets. But he wasn't ready. He needed to ride the pine....learn from EJ and NVE.


Anyone can join forces with other top players in their prime and become Jason Terry and Shawn Marion's bitch boy on live TV, but not everyone can have the alpha level of character to not want to take the easy road and instead prove that they can win without the most dominant player to ever lace them up in his prime no less.

Like Kobe did his rookie year? Demanding to play for the 2nd best NBA franchise in history.

Lakers got swept by Mavs that year.

Terry's stats Kobe's assignment
20PPG, 2TRB and 4AST. ... .587FG% and 68% from 3

Kobe's stats, in his prime, Terry's assignment
23.3PPG, 3TRB and 2.5AST.... . .458FG% and .227% from 3

Looks like bitch boy, captain of the Lakers Kobe, got his ass handed to him by "Terry's lock down defense :oldlol: "

Kobe took the easy road before he ever put on an NBA uniform.

[Hey Yo]

LeBron changed teams TWICE before the age of 31. Dat alpha... :lol
And won 3 titles while leading his team in points, rebounds and assists.

3 Alpha rings with 3FMVP > 2 Alpha rings with 2FMVP

[egokiller]

Do people on this board really think that Lebron is more alpha that Kobe was even on Lebron's best day? This has to be trolling. No one can be this dumb to not understand that saying you want traded means nothing when you retire on the same team that you played for 20 years on.

It was mentioned in another thread that Hey Yo didn't start watching until the decision.

Makes sense to me.

Lebron doesn't even have an alpha mindset argument against Kobe because he's played in the weaker conference his entire career. Look at the teams Kobe went though and look at what Lebron faced. It's a joke.

[34-24 Footwork]

Do people on this board really think that Lebron is more alpha that Kobe was even on Lebron's best day? This has to be trolling. No one can be this dumb to not understand that saying you want traded means nothing when you retire on the same team that you played for 20 years on.

It was mentioned in another thread that Hey Yo didn't start watching until the decision.

Makes sense to me.

Lebron doesn't even have an alpha mindset argument against Kobe because he's played in the weaker conference his entire career. Look at the teams Kobe went though and look at what Lebron faced. It's a joke.

You gotta stop responding to him, bro. Him, AJ, Feeny and a few other notoriously hate Kobe and will continue to do so.

People tha watched Kobe understand exactly what youre saying.

[egokiller]

You gotta stop responding to him, bro. Him, AJ, Feeny and a few other notoriously hate Kobe and will continue to do so.

People tha watched Kobe understand exactly what youre saying.

Sounds like Kobe is everything they wanted Lebron to be. If they hate Kobe, I can't imagine how much they hate MJ with a passion.

[tmacattack33]

Yes, I agree. Kobe is so much better than Duncan that he deserves 4 times more votes than him for this. And he's so much better than Shaq that he deserves 16 times more votes than him. LMAO.

[knicksman]

Kobe vs lebron is the best example of efficiency vs effectiveness. Effectiveness is more important but just like quality, its so hard to quantify thus harder to understand. So its not a surprise that the dumber ones prefer lebron

[IllegalD]

And won 3 titles while leading his team in points, rebounds and assists.

3 Alpha rings with 3FMVP > 2 Alpha rings with 2FMVP


Agreed.

But 2 alpha rings with 2FMVP + 3 1B option rings > 3 alpha rings with 3 FMVPs (with 4 finals losses, changing teams twice and playing in a far inferior conference)

:cheers: :banana:

[JT123]

Agreed.

But 2 alpha rings with 2FMVP + 3 1B option rings > 3 alpha rings with 3 FMVPs (with 4 finals losses, changing teams twice and playing in a far inferior conference)

:banana:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[aj1987]

Agreed.

But 2 alpha rings with 2FMVP + 3 1B option rings > 3 alpha rings with 3 FMVPs (with 4 finals losses, changing teams twice and playing in a far inferior conference)

:cheers: :banana:
:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

[AirFederer]

Wilt :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

Agreed.

But 2 alpha rings with 2FMVP + 3 1B option rings > 3 alpha rings with 3 FMVPs (with 4 finals losses, changing teams twice and playing in a far inferior conference)

:cheers: :banana:

Lmao at 2000 being a "1B ring". By this rationale Havlicek should be ranked higher than Kobe

[G0ATbe]

Kobe > MJ.

[Hey Yo]

Sounds like Kobe is everything they wanted Lebron to be. If they hate Kobe, I can't imagine how much they hate MJ with a passion.
:oldlol: quite the opposite. Doubt LeBron would want to hear Phil say "he's the most un-coachable player I've ever been around"



It's not hate when facts are being presented. Sorry the truth hurts you,Chico :violin:

[egokiller]

Go look at the play by play in some of the post season games for the Lakers 2000, 2001 and 2002. Note the key moments when Kobe was clutch to seal the games. For all 3 lakers championships, Kobe as 2nd option was vital to those rings. Only brain dead Lebron d1ck suckers try to discredit Kobe's other rings because he happens to have more total rings than Lebron does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHqwat3Wm8

What teammate did Kobe ever have that was able to drop 40+ on 75% shooting in a finals game because that is exactly what Kyrie Irving did. See how ridiculous that sounds? That's what people sound like when they try to discredit Kobe since he played with Shaq. Kobe PROVED that he could win without him. By contrast, who did Lebron prove that he could win without?

-Has he proven that he can win without two other players that are top 5 in PER that he colluded with?

-Has he proven that he can win without joining a stacked team that won 3 top draft pics and a top 4 pic including the greatest post season pg in the league right now in Kyrie Irving?

Playing on stacked teams in a historically weak eastern conference and winning 3 rings is just not that impressive in comparison to what Kobe has done. Next you'll be telling me how impressive it is to win against a worn down 73 regular season win team that had to go through the Thunder and upon making it to the finals:

- Iggy had a bad back
- Curry in early foul trouble each game having to sit (even fouling out in one game)
- Dray suspended

That's like saying the GSW's win over the Cavs the previous year showcased how great Curry was despite Kyrie and Love being injured, and how great iggy was on Lebron despite lebron not having any help...

It's complete nonsense that only a 15 year old kid would believe.

Anyone with a brain can look at the body of work surrounding Lebron and the context behind it and compare it to the body of work put in by Kobe and the context around it and form the conclusion that Kobe was more alpha.

The ONLY legit argument Lebron d1ck riders can make is that the guy's career isn't finished yet. Now take a back seat until that happens and accept him as a beta when being compared to Kobe.

I'm not a stan of any player but I have no problem calling out those who are stans when they have no clue as to where the player they are stanning realistically sits on the pecking order.

Now go cry some more about how the ESPN poll has Kobe voted in as the best since MJ.

[JT123]

Go look at the play by play in some of the post season games for the Lakers 2000, 2001 and 2002. Note the key moments when Kobe was clutch to seal the games. For all 3 lakers championships, Kobe as 2nd option was vital to those rings. Only brain dead Lebron d1ck suckers try to discredit Kobe's other rings because he happens to have more total rings than Lebron does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHqwat3Wm8

What teammate did Kobe ever have that was able to drop 40+ on 75% shooting in a finals game because that is exactly what Kyrie Irving did. See how ridiculous that sounds? That's what people sound like when they try to discredit Kobe since he played with Shaq. Kobe PROVED that he could win without him. By contrast, who did Lebron prove that he could win without?

-Has he proven that he can win without two other players that are top 5 in PER that he colluded with?

-Has he proven that he can win without joining a stacked team that won 3 top draft pics and a top 4 pic including the greatest post season pg in the league right now in Kyrie Irving?

Playing on stacked teams in a historically weak eastern conference and winning 3 rings is just not that impressive in comparison to what Kobe has done. Next you'll be telling me how impressive it is to win against a worn down 73 regular season win team that had to go through the Thunder and upon making it to the finals:

- Iggy had a bad back
- Curry in early foul trouble each game having to sit (even fouling out in one game)
- Dray suspended

That's like saying the GSW's win over the Cavs the previous year showcased how great Curry was despite Kyrie and Love being injured, and how great iggy was on Lebron despite lebron not having any help...

It's complete nonsense that only a 15 year old kid would believe.

Anyone with a brain can look at the body of work surrounding Lebron and the context behind it and compare it to the body of work put in by Kobe and the context around it and form the conclusion that Kobe was more alpha.

The ONLY legit argument Lebron d1ck riders can make is that the guy's career isn't finished yet. Now take a back seat until that happens and accept him as a beta when being compared to Kobe.

I'm not a stan of any player but I have no problem calling out those who are stans when they have no clue as to where the player they are stanning realistically sits on the pecking order.

Now go cry some more about how the ESPN poll has Kobe voted in as the best since MJ.
:biggums: Less than 40 posts into your ISH career and you are already writing meltdown essays :oldlol:
Looks like the Lebron fam wins...AGAIN :banana:

[egokiller]

:biggums: Less than 40 posts into your ISH career and you are already writing meltdown essays :oldlol:
Looks like the Lebron fam wins...AGAIN :banana:

This joker calls posting on this message board "an ISH career". :facepalm

That is gold.

In just my 40th post I've already given those who argue on behalf of Kobe being more alpha the advantage over this so called "lebron family". Any ego this "lebron fam" once had for their stance on the matter has just been killed.

[JT123]

This joker calls posting on this message board "an ISH career". :facepalm

That is gold.

In just my 40th post I've already given those who argue on behalf of Kobe being more alpha the advantage over this so called "lebron family". Any ego this "lebron fam" once had for their stance on the matter has just been killed.
You already melted down, bro. From this day forward you will always be seen as a joke around here. :lol

[SouBeachTalents]

Go look at the play by play in some of the post season games for the Lakers 2000, 2001 and 2002. Note the key moments when Kobe was clutch to seal the games. For all 3 lakers championships, Kobe as 2nd option was vital to those rings. Only brain dead Lebron d1ck suckers try to discredit Kobe's other rings because he happens to have more total rings than Lebron does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHqwat3Wm8

What teammate did Kobe ever have that was able to drop 40+ on 75% shooting in a finals game because that is exactly what Kyrie Irving did. See how ridiculous that sounds? That's what people sound like when they try to discredit Kobe since he played with Shaq. Kobe PROVED that he could win without him. By contrast, who did Lebron prove that he could win without?

-Has he proven that he can win without two other players that are top 5 in PER that he colluded with?

-Has he proven that he can win without joining a stacked team that won 3 top draft pics and a top 4 pic including the greatest post season pg in the league right now in Kyrie Irving?

Playing on stacked teams in a historically weak eastern conference and winning 3 rings is just not that impressive in comparison to what Kobe has done. Next you'll be telling me how impressive it is to win against a worn down 73 regular season win team that had to go through the Thunder and upon making it to the finals:

- Iggy had a bad back
- Curry in early foul trouble each game having to sit (even fouling out in one game)
- Dray suspended

That's like saying the GSW's win over the Cavs the previous year showcased how great Curry was despite Kyrie and Love being injured, and how great iggy was on Lebron despite lebron not having any help...

It's complete nonsense that only a 15 year old kid would believe.

Anyone with a brain can look at the body of work surrounding Lebron and the context behind it and compare it to the body of work put in by Kobe and the context around it and form the conclusion that Kobe was more alpha.

The ONLY legit argument Lebron d1ck riders can make is that the guy's career isn't finished yet. Now take a back seat until that happens and accept him as a beta when being compared to Kobe.

I'm not a stan of any player but I have no problem calling out those who are stans when they have no clue as to where the player they are stanning realistically sits on the pecking order.

Now go cry some more about how the ESPN poll has Kobe voted in as the best since MJ.

Meltdown

[egokiller]

You already melted down, bro. From this day forward you will always be seen as a joke around here. :lol

A melt down is what you are doing right now actually. Posting facts that can't be argued against which I have done is not a melt down. You can't argue the points I've made effectively so you are replying with nonsense. You're clearly frustrated by the poll results and by my sound logic.

Somebody get this guy a wheelchair cause I just crippled his ass. :lol

[JT123]

A melt down is what you are doing right now actually. Posting facts that can't be argued against which I have done is not a melt down. You can't argue the points I've made effectively so you are replying with nonsense. You're clearly frustrated by the poll results and by my sound logic.

Somebody get this guy a wheelchair cause I just crippled his ass. :lol
cringe

[aj1987]

What teammate did Kobe ever have that was able to drop 40+ on 75% shooting in a finals game because that is exactly what Kyrie Irving did. See how ridiculous that sounds? That's what people sound like when they try to discredit Kobe since he played with Shaq. Kobe PROVED that he could win without him. By contrast, who did Lebron prove that he could win without?
Bruh, Shaq was putting up 35/15/3/3 on 56% over 3 straight Finals. 38/17/2/1/3 on 61%. Kobe was winning Finals averaging 15 on 36%. Comeback when LeBron can win ANY SERIES putting up those numbers.

People said LeBron can't win without Wade. He just did.

How many alts do you need, warriorfan? Just stop and try stepping away from the keyboard for a minute.

[Hey Yo]

Go look at the play by play in some of the post season games for the Lakers 2000, 2001 and 2002. Note the key moments when Kobe was clutch to seal the games. For all 3 lakers championships, Kobe as 2nd option was vital to those rings. Only brain dead Lebron d1ck suckers try to discredit Kobe's other rings because he happens to have more total rings than Lebron does.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFHqwat3Wm8
Correct....he was 2nd option, sidekick Robin for 3 of them. IDC what he did in the playoffs, it's what gets done in the Finals. All people compare are Finals and how you performed. We saw ho Kobe performed for most of his. There's a reason why Batman movies are made and ones called "Robin" are not


What teammate did Kobe ever have that was able to drop 40+ on 75% shooting in a finals game because that is exactly what Kyrie Irving did.

Pau would be capable of doing so, but Kobe wouldn't allow a teammate to take that many FGA to possible outscore him in a Finals game. That happened way too many times when Shaq was there. His ego wasn't going to let it happen again.


Kobe PROVED that he could win without him. By contrast, who did Lebron prove that he could win without?

-Has he proven that he can win without two other players that are top 5 in PER that he colluded with

2012 (after Wade handed him the reigns) James led his Title team in PPG, TRB, ASTS, .....didn't need a great rebounder to get his bricks like Kobe did.

2013 down 2-3 in the series, he leads Miami to 2 straight wins and B2B titles. He leads his team in PPG, TRB, ASTS, and STEALS. Game 7 of that series...Chris Andersens 3pts outscored Haslem, Ray, Miller and Bosh COMBINED. They had ZERO points


-Has he proven that he can win without joining a stacked team that won 3 top draft pics and a top 4 pic including the greatest post season pg in the league right now in Kyrie Irving?
Bennett and Waiters were on the Cavs last season? Kyrie was considered that going into the playoffs??? Damn dude you're dumb.



Playing on stacked teams in a historically weak eastern conference and winning 3 rings is just not that impressive in comparison to what Kobe has done. Next you'll be telling me how impressive it is to win against a worn down 73 regular season win team that had to go through the Thunder and upon making it to the finals:

- Iggy had a bad back
- Curry in early foul trouble each game having to sit (even fouling out in one game)
- Dray suspended

Beat a 60 win Hawks team to get to the Finals in 2015. Kobe ever do that??
If GSW were worn down, then how did they get a 3-1 lead in the first place??
Iggy looked fine running the floor when James blocked his shot or when his FGA went in. When they didn't go in...."grab my back"



That's like saying the GSW's win over the Cavs the previous year showcased how great Curry was despite Kyrie and Love being injured, and how great iggy was on Lebron despite lebron not having any help...
It's not comparable at all. James didnt have Kyrie and Love but still made it a series. Curry could have been great, instead he got locked up by virgin postseason player Delly the first couple games. That's on nobody but Curry.



Anyone with a brain can look at the body of work surrounding Lebron and the context behind it and compare it to the body of work put in by Kobe and the context around it and form the conclusion that Kobe was more alpha.
Play for the team that drafts you and try to build a winner >>>>>> taking the easy route as an unproven nobody who wanted no part of trying to build a winner.


The ONLY legit argument Lebron d1ck riders can make is that the guy's career isn't finished yet. Now take a back seat until that happens and accept him as a beta when being compared to Kobe.
LeBron kicked Kobe's ass to the backseat years ago. Where you been?


I'm not a stan of any player but I have no problem calling out those who are stans when they have no clue as to where the player they are stanning realistically sits on the pecking order.
Suuuuuuuure you're not :oldlol:

The pecking order isn't going backwards, well maybe for your boy, but def. not James. His can only go forward from here.


Now go cry some more about how the ESPN poll has Kobe voted in as the best since MJ.
How can I be crying when I'm laughing about your absurdness.

Tell us again how it was Bennett and Waiters being on the roster that persuaded James to comeback to Cleveland.

Or how it's OK for rookies, before the draft, to demand to play for their fav. team.

Hell the Sixers were going to draft him. Took his parents out to dinner and they were thrilled that he was going to play so close to home. Nope....Kobe didn't want the challenge though. He wanted the easy way to a title.

True meaning of Beta ^^^^ cause those are the FACTS!

[egokiller]

Who is warriorfan? Is this what posters on this message board do when they are defeated in an argument? Claim that the person who they are arguing against is some alt that they won a past argument against? How cute.

In your reply to defend lebron's 3 rings, you only support my argument. I already said Lebron had 3 rings as the man.


Pau would be capable of doing so, but Kobe wouldn't allow a teammate to take that many FGA to possible outscore him in a Finals game.

Pau was capable? Thanks for the laugh. When is the last time in the history of the game that someone shot 40+ on 75%+ fg shooting in a finals game?

I don't care about capability, I care about actual.

When you look at Kobe's body of work and Lebron's body of work in their careers and the decisions they made, it's easy to see who is the alpha at this point in time. That title goes to Kobe.

Lebron plays in a historically weak eastern conference and his legacy is tainted by the 2011 finals as he sits with 3 rings as he earned as the #1 option. He also has 4 losses in the finals, but I'll give the benifit and say that 2007 and 2015 don't count. So each guy has 2 finals losses.

Meanwhile Kobe who has played in the more difficult western conference is 5/7, with 2 rings as the man and 3 rings as the 2nd option and his 2 finals losses are no where near as bad as Lebron's when you look at who Kobe was playing with relative to who Lebron was playing with on the Heat, which I remind you were two TOP 4 in PER players.

Conclusion, Kobe more alpha. There's like what, 3 posters on here who think otherwise that have been identified as lebron homers who can't be taken seriously? This thread only continues to expose them.

[aj1987]

Who is warriorfan? Is this what posters on this message board do when they are defeated in an argument? Claim that the person who they are arguing against is some alt that they won a past argument against? How cute.

In your reply to defend lebron's 3 rings, you only support my argument. I already said Lebron had 3 rings as the man.



Pau was capable? Thanks for the laugh. When is the last time in the history of the game that someone shot 40+ on 75%+ fg shooting in a finals game?

I don't care about capability, I care about actual.

When you look at Kobe's body of work and Lebron's body of work in their careers and the decisions they made, it's easy to see who is the alpha at this point in time. That title goes to Kobe.

Lebron plays in a historically weak eastern conference and his legacy is tainted by the 2011 finals as he sits with 3 rings as he earned as the #1 option. He also has 4 losses in the finals, but I'll give the benifit and say that 2007 and 2015 don't count. So each guy has 2 finals losses.

Meanwhile Kobe who has played in the more difficult western conference is 5/7, with 2 rings as the man and 3 rings as the 2nd option and his 2 finals losses are no where near as bad as Lebron's when you look at who Kobe was playing with relative to who Lebron was playing with on the Heat, which I remind you were two TOP 4 in PER players.

Conclusion, Kobe more alpha. There's like what, 3 posters on here who think otherwise that have been identified as lebron homers who can't be taken seriously? This thread only continues to expose them.
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[SamuraiSWISH]

Lmao at 2000 being a "1B ring". By this rationale Havlicek should be ranked higher than Kobe
Agreed. 2000 Kobe was an official sidekick. A Pippen / Gasol / '12 and '13 Wade caliber player. Luigi to someone else's dominant Mario.

And even though that early 00's Lakers three peat belongs heavily to Shaq's resume, he was their best player and leader afterall. But to act however like 2001 or 2002 are shrugged off sidekick rings for Kobe is disingenuous. His production was on the level of an alpha superstar on a championship team.

Those 2001 and 2002 Lakers teams were a 2 headed monster, with a rather pedestrian or down right weak supporting cast around them. Lakers management let it rot year by year, relying almost exclusively on the massively improving Kobe, and still dominant Shaq to carry them.

O'Neal's injury, laziness, and that same deteriorating roster led to their early demise in 2003 before they reloaded with aging GP, and Karl Malone the very next season.

[RRR3]

Agreed. 2000 Kobe was an official sidekick. A Pippen / Gasol / '12 and '13 Wade caliber player. Luigi to someone else's dominant Mario.

And even though that early 00's Lakers three peat belongs heavily to Shaq's resume, he was their best player and leader afterall. But to act however like 2001 or 2002 are shrugged off sidekick rings for Kobe is disingenuous. His production was on the level of an alpha superstar on a championship team.

Those 2001 and 2002 Lakers teams were a 2 headed monster, with a rather pedestrian or down right weak supporting cast around them. Lakers management let it rot year by year, relying almost exclusively on the massively improving Kobe, and still dominant Shaq to carry them.

O'Neal's injury, laziness, and that same deteriorating roster led to their early demise in 2003 before they reloaded with aging GP, and Karl Malone the very next season.
https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--1w5K-QOL--/b_rgb:768e9a,c_limit,f_jpg,h_400,q_90,w_400/v1446235264/production/designs/250980_1.jpg

[SamuraiSWISH]

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--1w5K-QOL--/b_rgb:768e9a,c_limit,f_jpg,h_400,q_90,w_400/v1446235264/production/designs/250980_1.jpg
:oldlol:

[ImKobe]

Agreed. 2000 Kobe was an official sidekick. A Pippen / Gasol / '12 and '13 Wade caliber player. Luigi to someone else's dominant Mario.

And even though that early 00's Lakers three peat belongs heavily to Shaq's resume, he was their best player and leader afterall. But to act however like 2001 or 2002 are shrugged off sidekick rings for Kobe is disingenuous. His production was on the level of an alpha superstar on a championship team.

Those 2001 and 2002 Lakers teams were a 2 headed monster, with a rather pedestrian or down right weak supporting cast around them. Lakers management let it rot year by year, relying almost exclusively on the massively improving Kobe, and still dominant Shaq to carry them.

O'Neal's injury, laziness, and that same deteriorating roster led to their early demise in 2003 before they reloaded with aging GP, and Karl Malone the very next season.


2000 he was scoring in the low 20s like a Pippen but he was only 21 years old playing next to peak Shaq so it's understandable, but in the POs he had superstar moments that a Pippen never did while he played with MJ

28 ppg 49.6%FG 1st round vs Kings
21 ppg 45% + GW shot vs Suns
29/7/7/2/4 49%FG in Games 6 & 7 vs Blazers, Game-winning block on Sabonis @Portland and led the team in pts, rebs, asts and blocks in a game 7 with peak Shaq on the floor
got injured in the Finals but delivered in OT of Game 4 @Indy with Shaq fouled out

Can't put that ring on a level of a Pau Gasol or a Pippen, TBH

2001 Kobe had one of the GOAT Playoff runs at age 22, 29/7/6 15-1 championship run at 22 yrs old, statistically on par with a prime Shaq, b2b 45+ pt 10+ reb games on the road vs Kings and Spurs

Duncan, Shaq and Bron might have been more efficient on paper but Kobe was far more skilled and entertaining to watch. Duncan might have 5 rings but Kobe has him beat 4 - 2 in the POs and Duncan never won b2b despite having the GOAT coach and system. Lebron might have nice numbers but he's very lucky to even have 3 rings in 7 Finals appearances. Shaq couldn't win as the man without KB while KB went to 3 straight Finals with a Pau Gasol vs Shaq averaging 13 ppg in the Finals and getting swept as the defending champs in the 1st round with a prime Wade, and failing to win more than 4 rings despite playing with Nash's Suns, Lebron's Cavs and the Boston big 3.

[IllegalD]

Agreed. 2000 Kobe was an official sidekick. A Pippen / Gasol / '12 and '13 Wade caliber player. Luigi to someone else's dominant Mario.

And even though that early 00's Lakers three peat belongs heavily to Shaq's resume, he was their best player and leader afterall. But to act however like 2001 or 2002 are shrugged off sidekick rings for Kobe is disingenuous. His production was on the level of an alpha superstar on a championship team.

Those 2001 and 2002 Lakers teams were a 2 headed monster, with a rather pedestrian or down right weak supporting cast around them. Lakers management let it rot year by year, relying almost exclusively on the massively improving Kobe, and still dominant Shaq to carry them.

O'Neal's injury, laziness, and that same deteriorating roster led to their early demise in 2003 before they reloaded with aging GP, and Karl Malone the very next season.


Stats wise he was more of a sidekick in 2000 but he still authored these moments/performances:



1) 28, 4, 4 on 50% FG WCQF's vs Kings



2) Game Winner, Game 2 WCSF's vs Suns

https://youtu.be/teIq5v0tTnY



3) Game-Saving Defense/Block, Game 3 WCF's vs Blazers

https://youtu.be/I-xmHcgoTdw



4) Alley-Oop to Shaq, Game 7 WCF's vs Blazers

https://youtu.be/KgGaBQEN1X0

(Kobe outplays everyone, leads all players in rebounds, assists, blocks, and leads his team in points. 25, 11, 7 and 4 on 47% FG and manufactures the last 4 points of the epic Lakers comeback, culminating with the iconic Alleyoop)



5) Takeover vs Pacers, Game 4 Finals vs Pacers

https://youtu.be/kabuQv0qyA8


Two of those moments are on the official NBA's 60 Greatest Playoff Moments list.

All this at the age of 21, btw.



What other "sidekick/2nd banana" has had so many crucial moments in one single championship run?

:confusedshrug:

[egokiller]

Lebrontard logic that Kobe was nothing more than Shaq's sidekick is hindered by the fact that one can go back and provide the evidence of Kobe's greatness simply by posting a YouTube vid of a finals game. :lol

A Lebrontard will try to make one think that in game 7 of the 2002 WCF the ball went into Shaq every play and only if Shaq were doubled, was Kobe utilized as the sidekick.

Does this look like the play making of a sidekick? So many plays where Kobe just takes over.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3_XuOFuCdDo

This is 1A/1B all the way, not 1/2.

So basically Kobe is more alpha than Bron than what I originally thought, based on the fact that 2002 WCF game 7 is a clear indication of Kobe being an equal leader during that defining game. It was after that game that Kobe knew he was good enough to prove to the world that he could win without Shaq, and he did exactly that. What an alpha.

[konex]

Curry on that list is disrespectful...

[SwayDizzle]

kobe

[TommyGriffin]

Curry in 2016 before he had his knee injury.

[SouBeachTalents]

Curry in 2016 before he choked in the Finals

Agreed

[ImKobe]

Lebrontard logic that Kobe was nothing more than Shaq's sidekick is hindered by the fact that one can go back and provide the evidence of Kobe's greatness simply by posting a YouTube vid of a finals game. :lol

A Lebrontard will try to make one think that in game 7 of the 2002 WCF the ball went into Shaq every play and only if Shaq were doubled, was Kobe utilized as the sidekick.

Does this look like the play making of a sidekick? So many plays where Kobe just takes over.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3_XuOFuCdDo

This is 1A/1B all the way, not 1/2.

So basically Kobe is more alpha than Bron than what I originally thought, based on the fact that 2002 WCF game 7 is a clear indication of Kobe being an equal leader during that defining game. It was after that game that Kobe knew he was good enough to prove to the world that he could win without Shaq, and he did exactly that. What an alpha.

2000 Game 7 25/11/7

2002 Game 6 31/11/5
Game 7 30/10/7
with 1 turnover in over 90+ minutes played between the two games

Kobe in elimination games during their three-peat

he already became a better player than Shaq by the 2003 season when Shaq started the year off injured and Kobe ended up averaging 30/7/6 for the year and had more MVP votes than Shaq, they would have won a few more titles together with Kobe as the FMVP if Shaq had put his ego aside but he didn't. People want to compare their stats but ignore the fact that Kobe was the one who set Shaq up for a lot of those baskets. 21 yr old Kobe had more pts, rebounds and blocks than a peak Shaq in a Game 7, remember that.

[egokiller]

2000 Game 7 25/11/7

2002 Game 6 31/11/5
Game 7 30/10/7
with 1 turnover in over 90+ minutes played between the two games

Kobe in elimination games during their three-peat

he already became a better player than Shaq by the 2003 season when Shaq started the year off injured and Kobe ended up averaging 30/7/6 for the year and had more MVP votes than Shaq, they would have won a few more titles together with Kobe as the FMVP if Shaq had put his ego aside but he didn't. People want to compare their stats but ignore the fact that Kobe was the one who set Shaq up for a lot of those baskets. 21 yr old Kobe had more pts, rebounds and blocks than a peak Shaq in a Game 7, remember that.

:applause: :applause:

And what is the lebrontard logic when providing this evidence that in that game, Kobe was batman" Is it that Shaq simply had a bad game?

Well that's just great! Let's then rate everyone higher on the all time list that ever had a bad game 7, because after all... it was just a bad game.

Basically when you take all the context into account, Kobe is just simply more alpha. Bronstans will quickly start talking about regular season MVPS instead of trying to correctly argue on behalf of lebron by siting specific things that lebron did in the reg season and post season. You come at me with a guy having more regular season MVPS than the next guy, and all anyone has to do is debunk the value of the MVP by pointing out that Steve Nash has 2 MVPS over Wade, Dirk, Shaq and Kobe....

[SouBeachTalents]

:applause: :applause:

And what is the lebrontard logic when providing this evidence that in that game, Kobe was batman" Is it that Shaq simply had a bad game?

Well that's just great! Let's then rate everyone higher on the all time list that ever had a bad game 7, because after all... it was just a bad game.

Basically when you take all the context into account, Kobe is just simply more alpha. Bronstans will quickly start talking about regular season MVPS instead of trying to correctly argue on behalf of lebron by siting specific things that lebron did in the reg season and post season. You come at me with a guy having more regular season MVPS than the next guy, and all anyone has to do is debunk the value of the MVP by pointing out that Steve Nash has 2 MVPS over Wade, Dirk, Shaq and Kobe....

LeBron has more MVP's as well as more FMVP's and better regular season, postseason, and Finals stats

[aj1987]

Kobe turd "logic" - If you have a couple of good games in a 20 game PO run, you're 1b to a top 5 GOAT.

warriorfag, you really need to take a break, dude. You've been on a constant meltdown since your lover choked massively in the Finals.