Vince Carter is an overrated athlete

[JohnMax]

There is way more to athleticism than just dunking ability and your vertical. Speed, quickness, and agility play a huge role in judging an athlete. Carter simply didn't have elite speed/quickness. It's why the Jordan comparisons were always way off base because Jordan had Westbrook level quickness.

Jason Richardson was the same way. Fantastic dunker but just didn't have that elite quickness. Carter was probably more athletic than Richardson overall but he's from that same mold.

I think a guy like Andre Iguodala for example is a better athlete than Vince when you take into account quickness and agility. Carter could never move around the floor the way a guy like Iguodala can. That's a huge aspect of athleticism that you can't just overlook.

[tpols]

vince carter was plenty quick.. he just didnt have a high motor / didn't consistently expend himself in all aspects of the game. Jordan has westbrook level motor with kobe level finesse.. carter was basically a poor man's kobe, which is still plenty good.

[egokiller]

The guy did shit that no one had never seen before so that must count for something?

Jumped over Weis in a game and did the elbow dunk to name a few.

[Kool Boy]

VC is slow

[Indian guy]

VC's game-athleticism was definitely lacking a little compared to say....Wade, Kobe and MJ, if we are talking about SGs. But inferior to Iggy?? Come on. Iggy had the same issues VC did, except on an even greater scale. VC still had a great first step and coordination, and was 'good' at everything else too - he just wasn't what some of the other great SGs were. Iggy's strengths on the other hand were mostly leaping and open-court speed.

T-Mac's another player who is somewhat overrated as an athlete. He had great straight-line speed, but wasn't that agile. Change-of-direction, acceleration after change-of-pace, live-dribble explosiveness....he was lacking in those areas, which is a big reason why he was never that good at getting to the FT line.

[KiiiiNG]

And if you are going to go purely by Dunking, you could argue Iggy is still a more athletic player than Carter.

Since 2001 when shot charts have been kept...

Career since 2001:
Iguodala --- 1093 Dunks --- 695 Games --- 1.57 per game
Carter ------ 668 Dunks ---- 935 Games --- 0.71 per game

Iggy has averaged MORE THAN TWICE as many dunks per game as Vince has since 2001. That is absurd. Just a straight blowout. But maybe you think Vince's older years have killed his "Dunks per game" average. Nope...

Top 5 Seasons in terms of Dunks:
Iguodala --- 153 ('09) --- 141 ('08) --- 134 ('13) --- 129 ('06) --- 122 ('05)
Carter ------- 87 ('06) ---- 86 ('07) ----- 71 ('06) ---- 70 ('05) --- 59 ('02)

Carter's '99 and '00 seasons are missing and it's possible that those were his most prolific years as a volume dunker. But the facts actually show him increasing his volume dunking in New Jersey. His career high in dunks in a season is 87 in the '06 season.

Andre Iguodala has 7 seasons of more than 120 dunks.

Carter's individual dunks were legendary because of his incredible vertical and body control in the air. In terms of memorable dunks, he has Iggy beat by a mile. But Iggy's quickness allowed him to get to the rim a hell of a lot easier than Carter ever could as the numbers prove. And on top of that Iggy is capable of guarding speedy point guards due to his quickness, something that would be laughable to watch Carter try.

Iggy was/is a better athlete than Carter. And several other perimeter players from the last decade with more quickness and agility than Carter can say the same thing.

[SamuraiSWISH]

He didn't have the lightning speed, and quickness the other guys he's compared to ... not the body dexterity or control either. He also was obviously one of the least physically durable of the bunch and couldn't really take much punishment. But he did have insane hops for a period.

[Jasper]

VC = excellent teammate

[icewill36]

i think you need to go back and check the tapes of his first few years in the laegue. he had a very quick first step and is very strong. it just doesnt appear he was moving fast all the time because of how smooth his game is. also like others have stated he is not a high motor guy. he only used his athleticism when he had to.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8j3rCQiZrl8

[bizil]

Peak Vince was EASILY a freak athlete!! He might not have been as quick off the bounce as MJ or Wade, BUT in the air he was the most powerful finisher among SG's EVER! MJ has the best arsenal of freak athletic shit ever though. I'm talking the variety of dunks (off one foot or vertical) and layups as a package in game situations.

But I think Nique has the best catalog of freak athletic plays EVER in terms of the volume in game situations. From the ages of 23-37 years old, Nique was doing some flat out eye popping shit! Even on the Spurs, Nique was doing some amazing things in the air in his late 30's. He retained his freak athletic ability longer than any of the other greats.

[BigKAT]

Peak Vince was EASILY a freak athlete!! He might not have been as quick off the bounce as MJ or Wade, BUT in the air he was the most powerful finisher among SG's EVER! MJ has the best arsenal of freak athletic shit ever though. I'm talking the variety of dunks (off one foot or vertical) and layups as a package in game situations.

But I think Nique has the best catalog of freak athletic plays EVER in terms of the volume in game situations. From the ages of 23-37 years old, Nique was doing some flat out eye popping shit! Even on the Spurs, Nique was doing some amazing things in the air in his late 30's. He retained his freak athletic ability longer than any of the other greats.

Dominque Wilkins is a worthy name for this discussion.

[ralph_i_el]

I feel like VC was stronger than a lot of these guys that people are holding up as examples of quicker players than him.

Sure, there were wings who were quicker, but he had a sick combo of explosiveness and strength.


Think about it like this. Plenty of guys are quicker than LeBron and Durant. Nobody stronger than LeBron is quicker than him though, and nobody as long as Durant is as quick as him.

VC was quicker than just about anyone who was stronger than him.

[artificial]

Overrated by who? It's not like anyone worth listening to is saying he was the best athlete ever or anything.

I can think of some players that were faster than him, even in his prime. You probably could name a few that jump higher than him... But none that dunked as he did.

He is arguably the best dunker ever, and that's his thing. Seriously, who cares about his athleticism at that point?

[Smoke117]

I think you guys are confusing athleticism with skills. Vince was never a particularly great ball handler or slasher...the things he can pull of athletically off the dribble are going to directly correlate with how good his ball handling was...and that was just above average.

[L.Kizzle]

This thread doesn't really make sense at all.

Kobe - Vince - McGrady - Pierce - Ray Allen. The top 5 swings from his era (not counting Bron and Wade came a few years later.)

[NuggetsFan]

I've always said this. He's a great athlete, elite. Not a "freak" tho which sometimes gets suggested. Even someone like Kobe was more athletic than Carter at his peak. I'd take T-Mac as well physically with the extra couple of inches, length while maintaining similar athletic traits outside of vertical.

Carter had a freakish vertical. He could get up high and stay there. He just wasn't a freak overall athlete. Didn't have elite speed, quickness, strength freakish size for a wing, coordination. Makes sense because when gauging athletes in basketball vertical is the flashiest most talked about thing.

[bizil]

I've always said this. He's a great athlete, elite. Not a "freak" tho which sometimes gets suggested. Even someone like Kobe was more athletic than Carter at his peak. I'd take T-Mac as well physically with the extra couple of inches, length while maintaining similar athletic traits outside of vertical.

Carter had a freakish vertical. He could get up high and stay there. He just wasn't a freak overall athlete. Didn't have elite speed, quickness, strength freakish size for a wing, coordination. Makes sense because when gauging athletes in basketball vertical is the flashiest most talked about thing.

The things Vince could do in the air would qualify him for freak athlete status. I would consider Kobe and T Mac freak athletes as well. But Vince could do things in the air that they NEVER DID! This includes dunk contests and in game scenarios.

The things that a Kobe and T Mac had on him in terms of slashing was handles and quicker first steps. But overall, I think there are different levels of freak athletes. Vince, Kobe, and T Mac would all qualify.

[swagga]

I feel like VC was stronger than a lot of these guys that people are holding up as examples of quicker players than him.

Sure, there were wings who were quicker, but he had a sick combo of explosiveness and strength.


Think about it like this. Plenty of guys are quicker than LeBron and Durant. Nobody stronger than LeBron is quicker than him though, and nobody as long as Durant is as quick as him.

VC was quicker than just about anyone who was stronger than him.

I agree here.
after lebron, vince carter's core body strength is the highest of every athletic wing player in history imo. Imo this type of athleticism is the rarest in basketball.

[L.Kizzle]

I've always said this. He's a great athlete, elite. Not a "freak" tho which sometimes gets suggested. Even someone like Kobe was more athletic than Carter at his peak. I'd take T-Mac as well physically with the extra couple of inches, length while maintaining similar athletic traits outside of vertical.

Carter had a freakish vertical. He could get up high and stay there. He just wasn't a freak overall athlete. Didn't have elite speed, quickness, strength freakish size for a wing, coordination. Makes sense because when gauging athletes in basketball vertical is the flashiest most talked about thing.
Lol, he was a freak athlete, stop it. You just described Ricky Davis not Vince Carter. How many wings were quicker than him, stronger than him, ect.

When you think of the 5 elite wings at his peak.

Kobe - McGrady - Carter - Allen - Pierce.

[PP34Deuce]

Vince was a power 2 guard. The guy was stronger than all those guys.

Kobe and Tmac could be dance with the ball and were faster to spots. Vince was more explosive off one step and could over power big guards and small forwards.

[JtotheIzzo]

Vince was more than just a dunker. Don't fall into the ISH youtube viewer false historian complex.

Vince scored over 20ppg for almost a decade and peaked around 28ppg.

He scored a lot off the dribble, wth athleticism that was more than just jumping high.

He moved as gracefully with and without the ball as ANYONE who has ever played the game.

James White is just a dunker.

Vince Carter is a generational athlete.